Jesse Foppert strikeout watch
michael bakunin
Foppert was dominating younger hitters in low-A. Well, after
yesterday's game, his line in AA looks like:
W L SV ERA G IP H R ER BB KO HR
Foppert 3 2 0 2.32 8 42.2 28 14 11 14 56 3
Foppert's KO/9 ratio is well over a strikeout per inning, and his K/BB
is around four. If he keeps this up the whole season, there may be a
few people besides me who'll give up their skepticism.
-mb
PS - Baseball America's web site today said:
"Shreveport (Texas) RHP Jesse Foppert spun seven solid innings in the
Swamp Dragons' 4-1 victory over Arkansas, which lost its 10th straight
contest. The 21-year-old, who fanned seven over six scoreless frames
in his last outing on May 18, retired 10 in a row after yielding a
leadoff single to open the contest and gave up a solo homer to OF Mike
O'Keefe with two outs in the fourth. The 6-foot-6, 210-pounder set
down nine of the final 11 batters he faced, finishing with seven
strikeouts and three walks for the win. A second-round selection of
the Giants in the 2001 draft, Foppert improved to 3-2 with a 2.32 ERA
and 56 strikeouts over 42 2/3 innings of his first season of Double-A.
Since turning pro in 2001, the Reading, PA native has posted a record
of 11-3 and a 2.08 ERA in 22 starts. He has also yielded 63 hits and
fanned 144 over 112 2/3 innings."
nb - Arkansas is at the bottom of the team batting tables, but only
third in the Texas League in strikeouts.
Greg Lentz
wrote:
Saw the guy in spring training against the A's this year. No one got good
wood on him. The strongest hit ball was a popout to center. He looked
much better than Jerome Williams IMO (who also pitched in the same game).
I think this guy is in the rotation in two years.
Greg Lentz
BenF802961
>
>I'll admit to having been a tiny bit skeptical last year when Mr.
>Foppert was dominating younger hitters in low-A. Well, after
>yesterday's game, his line in AA looks like:
>
> W L SV ERA G IP H R ER BB KO HR
>Foppert 3 2 0 2.32 8 42.2 28 14 11 14 56 3
>
With numbers like he put up it is almost certain Sabean will trade him away for
a loser like Glanville or Brady Anderson.
Randy Heaton
> >
> >I'll admit to having been a tiny bit skeptical last year when Mr.
> >Foppert was dominating younger hitters in low-A. Well, after
> >yesterday's game, his line in AA looks like:
> >
> > W L SV ERA G IP H R ER BB KO HR
> >Foppert 3 2 0 2.32 8 42.2 28 14 11 14 56 3
> >
>
> With numbers like he put up it is almost certain Sabean will trade him
away for
> a loser like Glanville or Brady Anderson.
It is common in this news group to see people trash Sabean like this with no
accounting of what they base their comments on.
When has Sabean traded away a top caliber arm for a mediocre outfielder? My
recollection of Sabean big arm deals are the ChiSox deal that brought R
Hernandez, W Alvarez and D Darwin, a deal that was almost unanimously
approved of here in this group. He then dealt Grilli and Bump to Fla for
Nen/Livan, so far I have no complaints about that deal either.
The almost certain comment indicates that it is a theme in Sabean's deals, I
can't think of one trade like that let alone two.
Randy Heaton
Dave
>>I'll admit to having been a tiny bit skeptical last year when Mr.
Foppert was dominating younger hitters in low-A. Well, after
yesterday's game, his line in AA looks like:
W L SV ERA G IP H R ER BB KO HR
Foppert 3 2 0 2.32 8 42.2 28 14 11 14 56 3
Foppert's KO/9 ratio is well over a strikeout per inning, and his K/BB
is around four. If he keeps this up the whole season, there may be a
few people besides me who'll give up their skepticism.<<
The strikeouts are nice, but I'm far more impressed with his
innings/hit ratio, which last season was an unheard of 2/1. In his
past three starts, Foppert has allowed FIVE hits over a period of 19
innings. And during that time his Ks per nine dropped which tells me
he not only has great stuff, but he's becoming more of a pitcher. Up
one rung on the ladder, Jerome Williams is doing the same thing.
2004 can't get here soon enough, can it?
-Dave
a newbie
Greg Lentz <nodam...@owl-post.net> wrote in message
news:72sseus4j85975jp8...@4ax.com...
> On 24 May 2002 09:43:45 -0700, bakun...@yahoo.com (michael bakunin)
> wrote:
>
> >I'll admit to having been a tiny bit skeptical last year when Mr.
> >Foppert was dominating younger hitters in low-A. Well, after
> >yesterday's game, his line in AA looks like:
> >
> > W L SV ERA G IP H R ER BB KO HR
> >Foppert 3 2 0 2.32 8 42.2 28 14 11 14 56 3
> >
Maybe he'll one day become the ace that we've been wishing for. Too bad Bonds
will be too old by then.
Come to think of it, Randy Johnson is like 39, right? How much longer can he
pitch like this? He should be done pretty soon.
Anyone Think 18?
8 down...
When Barry comes to the plate, he's in scoring position
Adam Coutts
:> > >
:> > I think this guy is in the rotation in two years.
:>
:> Maybe he'll one day become the ace that we've been wishing for. Too bad
Bonds
:> will be too old by then.
J Foppert, J Williams, KAinsworth, B Bonser, E Threets, F Diaz, J Clark, R
Jensen, R Ortiz.-- we should have a pretty good rotation in 2004. I wonder
if anyone will want to take Jason "The Six Million Dollar Man" Schmidt off
our hands then.
Adam Coutts
BenF802961
>My
>recollection of Sabean big arm deals are the ChiSox deal that brought R
>Hernandez, W Alvarez and D Darwin, a deal that was almost unanimously
>approved of here in this group.
Hernandez, Alvarez, and Darwin were just a 2 month loaner...and Darwin
overstayed his welcome. True they helped in 1997 but where are they now? And
how are Howry and Foulke doing?? Was Singleton included in that trade too?
>He then dealt Grilli and Bump to Fla for
>Nen/Livan, so far I have no complaints about that deal either
Agreed. No complaints on that one.
Sabean IMO, was just in the right place at the right time since those two clubs
were dumping salary. There is no way Sabean initiated those trades.
You give Sabean TOO much credit.
The reason the Giants are stuck with Snow and Benard are because of him.
JVV4sm
>Maybe he'll one day become the ace that we've been wishing for. Too bad
>Bonds
>will be too old by then.
>
>Come to think of it, Randy Johnson is like 39, right? How much longer can he
>pitch like this? He should be done pretty soon.
I think it will all be over for him on Sunday.
Dave
>>Was Singleton included in that trade too?<<
No. Singleton was traded to the Yankees for Charlie Hayes, which at
the time was a very good deal. Singleton was languishing at AAA,
while the Giants needed an experienced third baseman. The Yankees not
only offered Hayes, but agreed to pay his entire salary. All that for
a AAA player? Yes, he turned out to be a bust and Singleton turned
out to be a servicable player who just needed the opportunity to play,
but hindsight is 20-20.
>>He then dealt Grilli and Bump to Fla for Nen/Livan, so far I have no
complaints about that deal either<<
>>Agreed. No complaints on that one. Sabean IMO, was just in the right
place at the right time since those two clubs were dumping salary.
There is no way Sabean initiated those trades. You give Sabean TOO
much credit.<<
Where were the other 28 teams at the time? In the case of Nen, they
were in the same building (winter meetings). You're not giving Sabean
ENOUGH credit.
>>The reason the Giants are stuck with Snow and Benard are because of
him.<<
Benard was a mistake from the beginning because he didn't HAVE to give
him that extension in April. Had he waited until the offseason (when
it was still early to buy out his arbitration years) he wouldn't have
made the move. Snow was a smart move at the time (lock up your
productive first baseman for a few years to avoid the potential higher
salaries) who of course, turned out to stink from that point forward.
Again, hindsight is 20-20.
You can slam Brian Sabean because of a few moves that turned out bad,
but think of how they looked at the time he made it. As I said,
Benard was a mistake from the beginning, and was probably partly the
result of wanting to have that ideal leadoff hitter in the fold for a
few years. They had just traded away the popular and reasonbly
productive Darryl Hamilton, and were also anxious to regain some of
what they lost a six years earlier (albeit under a different
administration) when they chose Willie McGee over Brett Butler. The
rest of Sabean's moves were for the most part very successful.
Instead of cynically dismissing them, perhaps a little credit would be
appropriate.
Brian Sabean isn't Billy Beane, and I don't see eye-to-eye with some
of his moves or philosophies, but without him, we'd probably be
scraping to climb out of the cellar every year, instead of fielding a
competitive team every year -- something he has helped architect ever
since he took over the GM job.
-Dave
BenF802961
>Benard was a mistake from the beginning because he didn't HAVE to give
>him that extension in April.
You do not have to convince me of that.
>Snow was a smart move at the time (lock up your
>productive first baseman for a few years to avoid the potential higher
>salaries) who of course, turned out to stink from that point forward.
You are WRONG on Snow. Sure Snow had a decent season in 1997. In 1998 he was
horrible. He was signed to that ridiculous contract for what he put up after
the 1998 season. Snow hits .248 and THEN gets a 6 year mega bucks contract.
INSANE!
>
>You can slam Brian Sabean because of a few moves that turned out bad,
>but think of how they looked at the time he made it.
He has made more than a few.
>The
>rest of Sabean's moves were for the most part very successful.
Besides Snow and Benard Explain:
Wayne Gomes
Alvin Morman
Jose Mesa
Russ Davis
1998 Shawon Dunston
These guys almost single handed destroyed the giants season.
>Instead of cynically dismissing them, perhaps a little credit would be
>appropriate.
The only 2 moves I liked from Sabean was the Kent for Willams and the signing
of Galarraga. And so far I have liked the addition of Bell.
>Brian Sabean isn't Billy Beane, and I don't see eye-to-eye with some
>of his moves or philosophies, but without him, we'd probably be
>scraping to climb out of the cellar every year, instead of fielding a
>competitive team every year -- something he has helped architect ever
>since he took over the GM job.
>
>-Dave
>
IMO Sabean has just been an average GM.
Nothing special. The last 2 years I have listen to him defend Marvin Benard.
Not one thing he said about Benard made sense. All he was trying to do was
defend his mistake in signing Benard. "We have to play Benard because no one
else on team can. Rios Can't lead off , Rios can't play center." Lo and behold,
3 days after I heard him say that guess who is in centerfield leading off.
After Rios is traded Benard is thrown out there again while the hot player (at
the time) sat, Murray. Benard sucked even more before Murray plays out the rest
of the season. I know Baker has a lot to do with the situation but I feel he is
doing a lot of covering up for Sabean. He is"obligated" in playing Sabeans high
price mistakes instead of cheaper more productive players.
michael bakunin
> innings/hit ratio, which last season was an unheard of 2/1.
No argument here; Foppert's hit ratio is awfully impressive,
especially this year in an age-appropriate league. Still, defense in
the minors can be especially variable, so I focus on K and BB first.
> during that time his Ks per nine dropped which tells me
> he not only has great stuff, but he's becoming more of a pitcher.
It's hard to maintain K/9 rates facing more-experienced hitters,
though I wouldn't exactly call it bad if a pitcher did.
> Up
> one rung on the ladder, Jerome Williams is doing the same thing.
Even more impressive, if you ask me. I was sold on Williams after the
2d half he put up in Shreveport last year. My concern has been
inconsistent velocity this year. Remember, Williams is supposed to
hit 93 with ease, but this year he was struggling to reach 90 (cf
http://www.fresnobee.com/columnists/canzano/story/2555652p-3054600c.html).
Maybe he's getting there now, though; his last couple games were:
IP H R ER BB SO HR YTD ERA
5/23 Iowa 6.1 3 0 0 2 3 0 3.88
5/18 Omaha 6.2 2 0 0 1 3 0 4.38
When Williams is on, he sure doesn't walk anyone. Impressive games,
though I'd like to see closer to a strikeout per inning.
> 2004 can't get here soon enough, can it?
Not for fans of good pitching, no. Fingers crossed no arms get hurt.
-mb
a newbie
BenF802961 <benf8...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020525150701...@mb-ch.aol.com...
> >From: dcl...@gosfgiants.com (Dave)
>
> >The
> >rest of Sabean's moves were for the most part very successful.
>
> Besides Snow and Benard Explain:
> Wayne Gomes
> Alvin Morman
> Jose Mesa
> Russ Davis
> 1998 Shawon Dunston
> These guys almost single handed destroyed the giants season.
I think you can find a few useless chumps on almost every teams. Most of them
should never have been significant enough to affect the team. I blame Dusty as
much as anyone for using them in *key situations* to doom the Giants.
> >Instead of cynically dismissing them, perhaps a little credit would be
> >appropriate.
>
> The only 2 moves I liked from Sabean was the Kent for Willams and the signing
> of Galarraga. And so far I have liked the addition of Bell.
You didn't like Ellis Burks?
Anyone Think 18?
9 down...
BenF802961
>
>You didn't like Ellis Burks?
>
I did but it seem too short termed. What Sabean should have done was re-sign
him.
Yes he was wobbly and max out at about 125 games but he stilled produced,
especially at Pac Bell. Rios and Murray could have been good subsitutes for
Burks' off days.
Tim Irvin
<benf8...@aol.com> wrote:
> >From: dcl...@gosfgiants.com (Dave)
>
> >Benard was a mistake from the beginning because he didn't HAVE to give
> >him that extension in April.
>
> You do not have to convince me of that.
I think this is unanimous.
> >Snow was a smart move at the time (lock up your
> >productive first baseman for a few years to avoid the potential higher
> >salaries) who of course, turned out to stink from that point forward.
>
> You are WRONG on Snow. Sure Snow had a decent season in 1997. In 1998 he was
> horrible. He was signed to that ridiculous contract for what he put up after
> the 1998 season. Snow hits .248 and THEN gets a 6 year mega bucks contract.
> INSANE!
I had no problem with the original acquisition. The long-term
extension puzzled me, though. What an albatross!
> >You can slam Brian Sabean because of a few moves that turned out bad,
> >but think of how they looked at the time he made it.
>
> He has made more than a few.
Most of the bad moves have had less of a negative impact, IMO, than the
good moves had positive ones.
> >The
> >rest of Sabean's moves were for the most part very successful.
>
> Besides Snow and Benard Explain:
> Wayne Gomes
> Alvin Morman
> Jose Mesa
> Russ Davis
> 1998 Shawon Dunston
> These guys almost single handed destroyed the giants season.
Most of these were very minor moves, though some of them (Morman) were
so putrid that they stand out even now.
[As an aside, speaking of Morman -- why is it that every year, the
Giants have to have one horrible lefty out of the pen -- one who makes
you lose all hope every time they take the mound? For evidence I
submit Morman, Fultz and Embree. When Christiansen comes back, they
really should jettison Fultz, but I think Zerbe will be the odd man
out.]
Interestingly enough, one move that looked horrible at the time was the
trade for Joe Carter in 1998 -- but he played quite well as a Giant and
helped keep them in contention.
> >Instead of cynically dismissing them, perhaps a little credit would be
> >appropriate.
>
> The only 2 moves I liked from Sabean was the Kent for Willams and the signing
> of Galarraga. And so far I have liked the addition of Bell.
Liked at the time or in hindsight? I think the Carter deal turned out
to be adequate, and would have been *more* than adequate had the Giants
managed to make the playoffs in '98.
> >Brian Sabean isn't Billy Beane,
But everyone messes up now and then. John Mabry for Jeremy Giambi?
Yes, Mabry gives you more flexibility defensively, but Jeremy Giambi
was starting to emerge as an OBP stud. For John Mabry?
For someone who supposedly focuses on OBP and power for offense,
letting Giambi go for *John Mabry* is a puzzlement.
> IMO Sabean has just been an average GM.
Even if that were the case, that's better than some of the critics have
been saying. As long as there are folks like Allard Baird lowering the
curve, Sabes will continue to be at *least* close to average.
> Nothing special. The last 2 years I have listen to him defend Marvin Benard.
> Not one thing he said about Benard made sense. All he was trying to do was
> defend his mistake in signing Benard. "We have to play Benard because no one
> else on team can. Rios Can't lead off , Rios can't play center." Lo and
> behold,
> 3 days after I heard him say that guess who is in centerfield leading off.
> After Rios is traded
And very soon after the trade, Rios was out for the season by blowing
out his knee, and Vogelsong blew out his arm shortly after that.
(Though that was luck, unless Sabean knew something ahead of time, and
if he did, the Pirates would surely like to know about it.)
> Benard is thrown out there again while the hot player (at
> the time) sat, Murray. Benard sucked even more before Murray plays out the
> rest
> of the season. I know Baker has a lot to do with the situation but I feel he
> is
> doing a lot of covering up for Sabean. He is"obligated" in playing Sabeans high
> price mistakes instead of cheaper more productive players.
Well, sure, there is that PMLV thing. I think on balance, there would
be widespread agreement that there have been some really good and
really bad moves, with some breaking roughly even or still incomplete
in terms of evaluation.
Good moves include trading Matt Williams away (and funny, this one was
the one that made people want to burn Sabes in effigy) and acquiring
Ellis Burks and Andres Galarraga.
The bad moves include Russ Davis. The *really* bad ones, IMO, are only
two in number -- the multi-million, long-term contract extensions for
Snow and Benard. Some could call letting Burks go a bad move, but
there was really little choice, as Burks' knees made a move to the AL a
necessity that both Burks and the Giants knew and accepted. If the
Giants weren't contending in his last year as a Giant, they could have
got something in trade from an AL team, but since the Giants were
gunning for the playoffs they had to keep him, knowing they'd get
nothing for him at the end of the season.
The incompletes include the acquisition of David Bell among others, but
as you implied, that one *appears* fairly positive so far.
Other moves are close to average, IMO -- like Santiago. Since they
didn't give up the farm or offer a huge multi-year deal, it's hard to
be critical of it, as Benito has been decent as a Giant. He just needs
a few more days off, IMO.
All in all, there are enough bad moves that he can't be seen in the
"inner circle" of best GMs, and enough good moves (and Allard Bairds)
out there to keep him out of the bottom rung of GMs as well. Whether
he's above average (but not elite), below average (but not Baird bad)
or solidly average depends on how one interprets the minor deals, close
calls and incomplete evaluations.
Personally, I think he's done B-/C+ work, with the incompletes possibly
swinging him into either grade.
Damn the Rockies, by the way. They only exist to torment the Giants.
--
Tim Irvin, zig...@svpal.org
"Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and
demand that they respect yours...Abuse no one and nothing, for abuse
turns the wise ones to fools and robs the spirit of its vision."
-- Tecumseh (1768-1813), Shawnee chief and statesman
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Adam Coutts
:>
:> But everyone messes up now and then. John Mabry for Jeremy Giambi?
:> Yes, Mabry gives you more flexibility defensively, but Jeremy Giambi
:> was starting to emerge as an OBP stud. For John Mabry?
:>
:> For someone who supposedly focuses on OBP and power for offense,
:> letting Giambi go for *John Mabry* is a puzzlement.
I have heard that Beane traded Giambi because (1) little G smokes too much
pot, (2) he got drunk and disrupted an A's team charter flight last week,
(3) he didn't slide last year in the playoffs, (4) he was a butcher in the
outfield and worse outfield D (with Damon gone) is a big reason why the A's
ERAs are up this year, and (5) he is Jason's brother, and fuck Jason Giambi.
But, even including all that, Jason Giambi for *John Mabry* is indeed a
puzzlement. I don't understand it.
Adam Coutts
BenF802961
>
>[As an aside, speaking of Morman -- why is it that every year, the
>Giants have to have one horrible lefty out of the pen -- one who makes
>you lose all hope every time they take the mound?
Tradition??
>Interestingly enough, one move that looked horrible at the time was the
>trade for Joe Carter in 1998 -- but he played quite well as a Giant and
>helped keep them in contention.
>
I didn't mind the move since it appeared he was going to retire after the
season.
>But everyone messes up now and then. John Mabry for Jeremy Giambi?
>Yes, Mabry gives you more flexibility defensively, but Jeremy Giambi
>was starting to emerge as an OBP stud. For John Mabry?
>
Where was Sabean when this crazy trade happened?
>Good moves include trading Matt Williams away (and funny, this one was
>the one that made people want to burn Sabes in effigy)
This move I like from the very beggining. I was never a Williams fan like
others in this NG.
>Personally, I think he's done B-/C+ work, with the incompletes possibly
>swinging him into either grade.
>
Your grade so far puts him in the middle of the pack.
Tim Irvin
<benf8...@aol.com> wrote:
> >From: Tim Irvin zig...@svpal.org
>
> >
> >[As an aside, speaking of Morman -- why is it that every year, the
> >Giants have to have one horrible lefty out of the pen -- one who makes
> >you lose all hope every time they take the mound?
>
> Tradition??
Must be. And the funny thing is that it's always a guy like Zerbe who
gets demoted, when it's the Fultzes, Embrees and Mormans who deserve it
more.
> >Interestingly enough, one move that looked horrible at the time was the
> >trade for Joe Carter in 1998 -- but he played quite well as a Giant and
> >helped keep them in contention.
> >
> I didn't mind the move since it appeared he was going to retire after the
> season.
My position at the time was apprehensive and uncertain, but knowing
that the Giants gave up little for him consoled me. And his
performance at that year's a.s.b.sf-g Day at the Stick -- where we
mercilessly ragged him from the Uecker seats in right field as he had a
great day -- affirmed the Principle of Earnest Ragging. So for that he
will always serve a purpose for Giants fans, at least those who read
this newsgroup.
> >But everyone messes up now and then. John Mabry for Jeremy Giambi?
> >Yes, Mabry gives you more flexibility defensively, but Jeremy Giambi
> >was starting to emerge as an OBP stud. For John Mabry?
> >
>
> Where was Sabean when this crazy trade happened?
Where was Allard Baird, for that matter? Yes, Jeremy is a terrible
baserunner and an even worse fielder, but the guy's pretty darned near
a .400 OBP guy. John Mabry is, well...John Mabry.
> >Good moves include trading Matt Williams away (and funny, this one was
> >the one that made people want to burn Sabes in effigy)
>
> This move I like from the very beggining. I was never a Williams fan like
> others in this NG.
On what basis? I'm just curious. None of the principles in that deal
really gave any prior indication that they would more than justify the
trade. At least as I saw it.
> >Personally, I think he's done B-/C+ work, with the incompletes possibly
> >swinging him into either grade.
> >
>
> Your grade so far puts him in the middle of the pack.
Well, yeah. I think he's been average overall, *maybe* ever so
slightly above average. But a few of the "close calls" and deals where
the jury is still out can turn that into a B+ or a D+ depending on
one's perspective.
As long as there are the Benard and Snow contracts, I can't fully get
behind him. Those were just too horrible and just killed the team's
ability to even get replacement-level players at those positions for
far less money.
Dave
>>You are WRONG on Snow. Sure Snow had a decent season in 1997. In
1998 he was
horrible. He was signed to that ridiculous contract for what he put up
after
the 1998 season. Snow hits .248 and THEN gets a 6 year mega bucks
contract.
INSANE!<<
A few points. One: no one is right or right -- just of a different
opinion. Snow was signed to an extension in late-July, 1999, when he
was having a solid season, and it was a 4-year, $24M contract -- not
six years, what the Pirates had just given to Kevin Young. The Giants
were trying to lock up their core at the time and part of their
thought process of signing Snow was wanting to show commitment to
winning. You might recall that Bonds and Kent had their option years
picked up *right* after the Snow signing.
>>You can slam Brian Sabean because of a few moves that turned out
bad,
but think of how they looked at the time he made it.
>>He has made more than a few.<<
Which ones were inexplicable at that time? The Benard extension (as
we've both agreed) was a bad idea from Day One -- in other words, it
was a move that didn't *have* to be made at that time and it was a
move that few, if any, supported. Your examples below could all be
rationalized at the time, but just looked bad (for the most part)
after the fact -- or when it's easier to throw darts.
>>The rest of Sabean's moves were for the most part very successful.<<
>>Besides Snow and Benard Explain:
Wayne Gomes<<
Middle relief depth for the stretch run. It didn't work out, but it
wasn't a bad move from the beginning.
>>Alvin Morman<<
I despised this deal, as it cost the Giants a playoff spot in '98, but
at the time it was an aggressive effort to make the playoffs. They
picked him up as middle relief depth, while you can probably thank
Roberto Hernandez's success in '97 for encouraging Sabean to add a
second "closer" in Jose Mesa.
>>Jose Mesa<<
See Alvin Morman.
Note: The Giants drafted Jerome Williams with the pick gained from
Jose Mesa's signing with another team, so there was a silver lining in
that trade, after all.
>>Russ Davis<<
They needed a third baseman. Hindsight is 20-20. Heck, you might as
well bring up Bill Mueller. Forget it -- I just did. And while I'm
conceding him, throw in Vander Wal for Witasick as another example of
a Sabean deal I didn't like from Day One.
>>1998 Shawon Dunston<<
See Morman and Mesa.
>>These guys almost single handed destroyed the giants season.<<
Almost? They did. They tied with the Cubs for the wildcard spot. We
all remember Jose "Wild Pitch with winning run on third" Mesa. Heck,
I figured he cost us a four or five games. Dunston dropped a fly ball
to lose a game, but did hit one game-winning home run. We all
remember what Morman did.
>>Instead of cynically dismissing them, perhaps a little credit would
be
appropriate.<<
>>The only 2 moves I liked from Sabean was the Kent for Willams and
the signing
of Galarraga. And so far I have liked the addition of Bell.<<
As someone else pointed out, what about Ellis Burks? Of course, his
acquisition indirectly cost us a few extra years of Marvin Benard.
>>IMO Sabean has just been an average GM. Nothing special. The last 2
years I have listen to him defend Marvin Benard. Not one thing he said
about Benard made sense. All he was trying to do was defend his
mistake in signing Benard. "We have to play Benard because no one else
on team can. Rios Can't lead off , Rios can't play center." Lo and
behold, 3 days after I heard him say that guess who is in centerfield
leading off.<<
I agree with all of your Benard comments. I don't agree Sabean is an
average GM. You think he's been given too much credit, I think he
hasn't been given enough. I think the Giants' record and the
improvement of the farm system (and it keeps getting better) during
his tenure speaks for itself. Again, I think you're not giving Brian
Sabean ENOUGH credit. This team didn't come together by itself.
-Dave
KarmaFuzzz
>>Giambi?
>>Yes, Mabry gives you more flexibility defensively, but Jeremy Giambi
>>was starting to emerge as an OBP stud. For John Mabry?
>
>Where was Sabean when this crazy trade happened?
If the purpose of the trade was to remove a bad influence from the A's
clubhouse, then trading him to the Giants would probably not be something Beane
would have considered, since -- although the a's and giants are rarely at home
at the same time -- the purpose of the trade to to eliminate the JeGiambi
influence, Jeremy would still have been living in the same house with the
several A's Beane wants Jeremy away from.
Arvin Hsu
michael bakunin <bakun...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Maybe he's getting there now, though; his last couple games were:
> IP H R ER BB SO HR YTD ERA
>5/23 Iowa 6.1 3 0 0 2 3 0 3.88
>5/18 Omaha 6.2 2 0 0 1 3 0 4.38
>
>When Williams is on, he sure doesn't walk anyone. Impressive games,
>though I'd like to see closer to a strikeout per inning.
Let's just see this trend continue. They won't be able to keep him in
Fresno for long, if he keeps putting up these outings. Foppert, also,
may be set for a promotion up to AAA in the late second half.
>> 2004 can't get here soon enough, can it?
>
>Not for fans of good pitching, no. Fingers crossed no arms get hurt.
>
Maybe it'll be 2003??
Ortiz, Jensen, Ainsworth, Williams, Foppert?
nah...
but more likely:
2003: Ortiz, Schmidt, Rueter, Jensen, Ainsworth
6th: Williams
2004: Ortiz, Schmidt, Jensen, Ainsworth, Williams
6th: Foppert
and the Giants go to the World Series, led
by Williams, Ortiz, Bonds, and Linden.
2005: Ortiz, Jensen, Ainsworth, Williams, Foppert,
6th: Bonser
2006: Williams, Foppert, Bonser, Ainsworth, Jensen
-Arvin
PS> On a serious note, what in the world's happened to Boof?
Dave
>>Maybe he's getting there now, though; his last couple games were:
IP H R ER BB SO HR YTD ERA
5/23 Iowa 6.1 3 0 0 2 3 0 3.88
5/18 Omaha 6.2 2 0 0 1 3 0 4.38
When Williams is on, he sure doesn't walk anyone. Impressive games,
though I'd like to see closer to a strikeout per inning.<<
ni...@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Arvin Hsu) wrote:
>>Let's just see this trend continue. They won't be able to keep him
in
Fresno for long, if he keeps putting up these outings.<<
Arvin:
Thanks to the threat of a player's strike, don't look for the Giants
to add Jerome -- or any other unnecessary prospect -- to the 40-man
roster. That would add them to the union and could shut them down --
and their development for an indefinite period of time. Williams
needs to be added by early December, but I'm not sure if that
obligation is frozen in the event of a work stoppage. Prospects like
Jesse Foppert and Todd Linden will definitely stay off the 40-man for
a while.
>>Foppert, also, may be set for a promotion up to AAA in the late
second half.<<
Considering he just started pitching a couple of years ago, he would
be better served spending the entire season at AA.
>>2004 can't get here soon enough, can it?<<
>>Not for fans of good pitching, no. Fingers crossed no arms get
hurt.<<
>>Maybe it'll be 2003??<<
I hope not. That would mean rebuilding, and I think everyone knows
how I feel about that subject.
>>Ortiz, Jensen, Ainsworth, Williams, Foppert?<<
Okay, I'll take a stab. 2003: Ortiz, Schmidt, Rueter, Jensen,
Ainsworth
>>nah...
but more likely:
2003: Ortiz, Schmidt, Rueter, Jensen, Ainsworth
6th: Williams<<
Not bad -- and I didn't look. I'm not sure about Jerome being in the
sixth role -- maybe by August. Call me conservative (but not
politically!), but he's better off at AAA. He's still a pup.
>>2004: Ortiz, Schmidt, Jensen, Ainsworth, Williams
6th: Foppert
2004: Ortiz, Schmidt, Rueter (he'll re-up on the cheap), Williams,
Foppert, Boof in the sixth role.
>>and the Giants go to the World Series, led by Williams, Ortiz,
Bonds, and Linden.<<
I wish.
>>2005: Ortiz, Jensen, Ainsworth, Williams, Foppert,
6th: Bonser<<
I don't know if I want to go this far out, but we need to consider
names like Felix Diaz (an absolute stud who just needs innings),
Francisco Liriano, David Cash, Noah Lowry, Ryan Hannaman, and on and
on. Oh, and I'm leaving out bullpen prospects like Erick Threets and
Wes Hutchison. Of course, many of these players won't make it or will
be traded, but it'll still be fun following 'em.
>>On a serious note, what in the world's happened to Boof?<<
He's working on a slider, plus refinement of his other pitches. Think
of the California League as Boof's test lab. It'll have his share of
explosions, but once he figures out the right formula, he'll be fine.
-Dave
P.S. Luke Haggerty, anyone?
michael bakunin
after a rainout, in a no-decision vs. Tulsa:
IP H R ER BB SO HR
J.Foppert 6.2 3 1 1 2 12 0
YTD:
IP H R ER BB SO HR
Foppert 49.1 31 11 12 16 68 3
Baseball America is on the bandwagon, too, and will stay there as long
as the strikeouts keep piling up. Their pregame commentary (this game
was a 'featured matchup): "The Texas League is usually known for gaudy
offensive numbers. Round Rock's pitching staffs have started to swing
the pendulum in favor of the pitchers over the last couple seasons.
Round Rock's Rodrigo Rosario (1.62) and Kirk Saarloos (1.77) are
pacing the league in ERA, but today's featured starters are among the
top five. Foppert is 3-2, 2.32 (fifth best) for Shreveport, and Hughes
has posted a 5-2, 2.25 (third best) mark."
"The Giants drafted Foppert in the second round last June out of the
University of San Francisco. A 6-foot-6, 210-pound athletic
righthander, Foppert didn't begin pitching until 2000 in the wood-bat
Shenandoah Valley League. A prospect as a first baseman, Foppert
really emerged for scouts when he showed tremendous aptitude on the
mound. He has the look of a polished pitcher with smooth, easy
mechanics and command of a diverse repertoire. His fastball sits in
the low-90s and he compliments it with a good darting slider and
changeup. He dominated the short-season Northwest League in his pro
debut last summer going 8-1, 1.93 in 14 starts. He fanned 88 in 70
innings and surrendered just 35 hits. The more-experienced Texas
Leaguers haven't found hitting Foppert any easier, as they have
managed a meager .184 average in 43 innings."
Postgame comment: "Tulsa (Texas) C Gerald Laird broke a 1-1 tie in the
bottom of the eighth inning to lift the Drillers over Shreveport, 2-1,
in the first game of a doubleheader. Laird, who entered the game
hitting .169 (10-for-59) with one RBI in May, stroked a two-out single
to plate 2B Jason Moore. RHP Jesse Foppert collected 12 strikeouts in
a no-decision outing for the Swamp Dragons. A second-round pick of the
Giants in last year's draft, Foppert struck out the side in order in
the third and four of the final six batters he faced. Overall, he
yielded an unearned run, two hits and a pair of walks over 6 2/3
innings. The righthander, who has fanned 26 hitters over his last 19
2/3 frames, has collected 68 strikeouts, walking just 16, in 49 1/3
innings this season. In the second game, 2B Jhonny Carvajal knocked
home a pair of runs as Shreveport earned the split, 4-1."
Parenthetically, I don't know whether the box score or the commentary
is correct in re: earned runs and hits.
My reaction: yowza. If he keeps this up, this season will look better
than last year's, which Foppert put in two levels lower. I agree with
folks who've called for him to spend the entire year at AA. After
that, assuming his performance holds up, I wouldn't be against his
learning-by-doing with the big club in Earl Weaver-style long relief.
Too bad Weaver's not managing the Giants, though.
-mb
Arvin Hsu
Dave <dcl...@gosfgiants.com> wrote:
>
>Thanks to the threat of a player's strike, don't look for the Giants
>to add Jerome -- or any other unnecessary prospect -- to the 40-man
>roster. That would add them to the union and could shut them down --
>and their development for an indefinite period of time. Williams
>needs to be added by early December, but I'm not sure if that
>obligation is frozen in the event of a work stoppage. Prospects like
>Jesse Foppert and Todd Linden will definitely stay off the 40-man for
>a while.
wow. deja vu. Sounds like Ainsworth last year.
>>>Foppert, also, may be set for a promotion up to AAA in the late
>second half.<<
>
>Considering he just started pitching a couple of years ago, he would
>be better served spending the entire season at AA.
Even if he continues at his current rate, posting a 3+ K/BB ratio, and
dominating the whole season? I can understand taking it slow with him,
but so far, AA has been easier than NWL was last year for him.
>
>>>Maybe it'll be 2003??<<
>
>I hope not. That would mean rebuilding, and I think everyone knows
>how I feel about that subject.
I'm not sure about that. Plenty of rookies have put up dominating first
year seasons. See Oswalt, Wood, Ankiel, ... Prior.
Esp. with a good offense.
>>>Ortiz, Jensen, Ainsworth, Williams, Foppert?<<
Alright, so that's a bit extreme.
How about, Ortiz, Schmidt, Ainsworth, Williams, Foppert
with Jensen in the pen.
It's not unheard of for a pitcher to dominate AA(which fopsie's doing)
and jump to a strong season in the majors.
In fact, Ortiz/Schmidt/Williams would all be strong #2 starters,
Ainsworth a #3 starter, and Foppert could land anywhere from #2-#4.
That would be one hell of a rotation. And in 2004-5, Williams or Foppert
should be able to take it a step up and move into more of a #1 starter
role.
That gives you two major trading chips: Rueter and Livan, with which
we can upgrade 1B, C, 3B (moving Bell to 2B).
damn. no leftie. hrmm... that's a problem. Well, I'll let someone else
figure out that problem.
>Okay, I'll take a stab. 2003: Ortiz, Schmidt, Rueter, Jensen,
>Ainsworth
>
>
>>>nah...
>but more likely:
>
>2003: Ortiz, Schmidt, Rueter, Jensen, Ainsworth
> 6th: Williams<<
>
>Not bad -- and I didn't look. I'm not sure about Jerome being in the
>sixth role -- maybe by August. Call me conservative (but not
>politically!), but he's better off at AAA. He's still a pup.
I'm not sure about that. If he's really turned the corner these last
two starts, I'd count on him being penciled into the rotation, and possibly
doing a 6th/AAA back and forth like Ainsworth this year. Maybe they'd Prior
him, and have him start at AAA for 2 months, keeping his arbitration clock
a bit slow.
>>>2004: Ortiz, Schmidt, Jensen, Ainsworth, Williams
> 6th: Foppert
>
>2004: Ortiz, Schmidt, Rueter (he'll re-up on the cheap), Williams,
>Foppert, Boof in the sixth role.
I guess you keep Rueter to fill the lefty role. I can see Jensen as expendable,
or tradeable.
>>>and the Giants go to the World Series, led by Williams, Ortiz,
>Bonds, and Linden.<<
>
>I wish.
Hey, I didn't say anything about winning it.
>>>2005: Ortiz, Jensen, Ainsworth, Williams, Foppert,
> 6th: Bonser<<
>
>I don't know if I want to go this far out, but we need to consider
>names like Felix Diaz (an absolute stud who just needs innings),
>Francisco Liriano, David Cash, Noah Lowry, Ryan Hannaman, and on and
>on. Oh, and I'm leaving out bullpen prospects like Erick Threets and
>Wes Hutchison. Of course, many of these players won't make it or will
>be traded, but it'll still be fun following 'em.
Of course a bunch of them do go to the bullpen.
How's Diaz doing this year, btw? Was his dominance in AFL last year
a sample size fluke or for real?
>>>On a serious note, what in the world's happened to Boof?<<
>
>He's working on a slider, plus refinement of his other pitches. Think
>of the California League as Boof's test lab. It'll have his share of
>explosions, but once he figures out the right formula, he'll be fine.
Aaah. Wow. That's good to hear. I had thought he had just been struggling
with the same stuff as last year, leading me to think last year was more
of a fluke than anything else. I can see them wanting to develop a third
major pitch for him.
-Arvin
Greg Lentz
Hsu) wrote:
>>>>Foppert, also, may be set for a promotion up to AAA in the late
>>second half.<<
>>
>>Considering he just started pitching a couple of years ago, he would
>>be better served spending the entire season at AA.
>
>Even if he continues at his current rate, posting a 3+ K/BB ratio, and
>dominating the whole season? I can understand taking it slow with him,
>but so far, AA has been easier than NWL was last year for him.
I agree. Unless he somehow drops in performance, a late season callup to
AAA is in order. I really think he's the cream of the Giants' ML crop.
>It's not unheard of for a pitcher to dominate AA(which fopsie's doing)
>and jump to a strong season in the majors.
Yeah, but it ain't happening on this team unless we hit some serious
injury problems.
>>Not bad -- and I didn't look. I'm not sure about Jerome being in the
>>sixth role -- maybe by August. Call me conservative (but not
>>politically!), but he's better off at AAA. He's still a pup.
>
>I'm not sure about that. If he's really turned the corner these last
>two starts, I'd count on him being penciled into the rotation, and possibly
>doing a 6th/AAA back and forth like Ainsworth this year. Maybe they'd Prior
>him, and have him start at AAA for 2 months, keeping his arbitration clock
>a bit slow.
Jerome needs a full year at AAA. He's very young and he needs to
consistently dominate at AAA like Ortiz did before getting called up. His
control just isn't major league quality yet.
Greg Lentz
michael bakunin
> consistently dominate at AAA like Ortiz did before getting called up.
Agreed.
> His
> control just isn't major league quality yet.
It could be better, sure, but Mr. Williams' control is one thing about
which I have not worried much. Take Mr. Ortiz's AAA by comparison:
1997 AAA IP H R ER BB SO K/9 K/BB BB/IP
Ortiz, Russ 85.0 96 57 52 34 70 7.4 2.1 1/2.5
2002 AAA IP H R ER BB SO K/9 K/BB BB/IP
Williams, J 60.1 60 31 27 18 37 5.5 2.1 1/3.4
Williams' walk rate at age 20 is much better than Ortiz's was at 22/23
at the same level. Then again, Ortiz's walk rate in the majors is
probably his biggest single problem, so perhaps you have a point.
Where he lags is strikeouts, probably reflecting both his struggles
with velocity this year and his youth. My guess: unless he really
turns it around this year, he'll spend 2003 at Fresno as well, and
likely be the better pitcher for it, arm willing.
-mb
Dave
>>Foppert, also, may be set for a promotion up to AAA in the late
second half.<<
dcl...@gosfgiants.com (Dave) wrote:
>>Considering he just started pitching a couple of years ago, he would
be better served spending the entire season at AA.<<
>>Even if he continues at his current rate, posting a 3+ K/BB ratio,
and
dominating the whole season? I can understand taking it slow with
him,
but so far, AA has been easier than NWL was last year for him.<<
<snip>
>>It's not unheard of for a pitcher to dominate AA(which fopsie's
doing)
and jump to a strong season in the majors.<<
It is when you're almost completely new to a position, unlike the
typical pitching prospect who has logged over 1000 innings since the
age of eight.
The key is Foppert has two years of pitching experience -- period. He
had been a darn good first baseman (probably good enough to be
drafted) before he switched gloves. What he really needs -- as
strange as this may sound -- is a good dose of humility. He has yet
to experience failure, so how does one adjust? Heck, the best
argument for promoting him to AAA is so he can get a taste of good ol'
PCL reality.
-Dave
Dave
>>How's Diaz doing this year, btw? Was his dominance in AFL last year
a sample size fluke or for real?<<
Arvin:
Felix Diaz messed up his ankle on the basepaths and has been out for
the last month. In four starts, he has a 1.80 ERA with a
15.0/11/7/11. And yes, he's for real. He has a filthy changeup (that
he needs to stop falling in love with), a nasty hard slider, a
mid-90's fastball, plus a developing curve. All he needs is innings.
If he's expected to win a spot in a major league rotation (and with
his pitch selection it would be a waste to put him in the bullpen), he
HAS to be ready to throw 200 innings in a season. Diaz signed in 1998
but has only managed to accumulate 184 innings so far. Fortunately,
he's just a couple months shy of 22 (he "aged" one year last winter)
so he has some time to catch up. He'll need to stay healthy the rest
of this season and will probably need a 160 inning season at AAA in
'03, followed by 180 the next season. More fall ball and winter
league action may be needed as well.
Talent-wise, the Giants have four legitimate *stud* pitching
prospects: Williams, Foppert, Bonser, and Diaz (Francisco Liriano --
an 18 year-old lefty with a 99 MPH fastball and a great curve is close
to this category). Now if they can just keep it up and actually make
it to the majors in a Giants' uniform... Details.
-Dave
Adam Coutts
:> prospects: Williams, Foppert, Bonser, and Diaz (Francisco Liriano --
:> an 18 year-old lefty with a 99 MPH fastball and a great curve is close
:> to this category).
How do you rank Ainsworth in the stud analysis? Eric Threets? Luke
Anderson? Jeff Clark?
Dave
>>Where he lags is strikeouts, probably reflecting both his struggles
with velocity this year and his youth. My guess: unless he really
turns it around this year, he'll spend 2003 at Fresno as well, and
likely be the better pitcher for it, arm willing.<<
I'm not worried about Jerome's low strikeouts. The fact he's pitching
well for a 20 year-old at AAA without the K's tells me he knows how to
make adjustments. I *am* concerned with his lower velocity --
especially at a time when it should be increasing (scouts generally
feel he'll eventually reach the upper 90's) -- could be the result of
something more menacing, though in the Giants' defense they have been
handling him with extra care AND he's blessed with very sound
mechanics.
-Dave
Dave
>>How do you rank Ainsworth in the stud analysis? Eric Threets? Luke
Anderson? Jeff Clark?<<
Out of those four, Threets has the most talent, except the Giants see
his future out of the 'pen and lefty closers are a rarity. Ainsworth
is a very good pitcher, but I don't see the talent of an ace (he's
probably a number three pitcher, IMO), while the pitchers I listed are
headed down the right path. I watched Clark at the SJ Giants' home
opener. Nothing spectacular, but he gets the job done -- a la Ryan
Jensen. Luke Anderson has one good pitch: a split-fingered fastball.
He'll need a couple more if he's going to advance.
-Dave
Arvin Hsu
Well, I am positing a full year at AAA. We're talking about 2003, under
the assumption that the rest of his AAA year at Fresno is closer to his
last two starts than his previous 4-8.
-Arvin
Adam Coutts
Thanks.
Arvin
> 2002 AAA IP H R ER BB SO K/9 K/BB BB/IP
> Williams, J 60.1 60 31 27 18 37 5.5 2.1 1/3.4
last start: 6 5 2 2 1 5 7.5 5 1/6
Again, great control. 1.000 WHIP, and strong K's. That's three
quality starts in a row he's put up now. Oh, and a 3.93 ERA now,
with 3 wins.
-Arvin
Arvin Hsu
In article <74ee2217.02060...@posting.google.com>,
michael bakunin
IP H R ER BB SO HR
J.Foppert 7 5 2 2 1 4 0
YTD numbers still look quite compelling.
IP H R ER BB SO HR
Foppert 56.1 36 17 14 17 72 3
-mb
michael bakunin
Oh, yes. I very much look forward to the Giants' having a starter who
doesn't walk a batter every other inning.
> three quality starts in a row
Three of four:
IP H R ER BB SO HR
6/2 Sac'to 6 5 2 2 1 5 0
5/28 Tucson 4.2 8 3 3 4 0 1
5/23 Iowa 6.1 3 0 0 2 3 0
5/18 Omaha 6.2 2 0 0 1 3 0
YTD numbers are great for a 20-year-old in AAA, especially the walk
rate.
2002 AAA IP H R ER BB SO K/9 K/BB BB/IP
Williams, J 66.1 65 33 29 19 42 5.7 2.2 1/3.5
-mb
Arvin Hsu
michael bakunin <bakun...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>Three of four:
>
> IP H R ER BB SO HR
>6/2 Sac'to 6 5 2 2 1 5 0
>5/28 Tucson 4.2 8 3 3 4 0 1
>5/23 Iowa 6.1 3 0 0 2 3 0
>5/18 Omaha 6.2 2 0 0 1 3 0
>
>YTD numbers are great for a 20-year-old in AAA, especially the walk
>rate.
>2002 AAA IP H R ER BB SO K/9 K/BB BB/IP
>Williams, J 66.1 65 33 29 19 42 5.7 2.2 1/3.5
>
Is he still just 20? I thought he was 20 last year in AA?
-Arvin
michael bakunin
He's the youngest player in the PCL and the second-youngest in AAA:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/minors/news/2002/minoryoung/
Scary, huh?
-mb
Arvin Hsu
>
>He's the youngest player in the PCL and the second-youngest in AAA:
>http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/minors/news/2002/minoryoung/
>
>Scary, huh?
yeppers. And he is still 20(Dec brithday). Wow.
I had no clue Torcato was also young for AAA @22.
(2nd youngest hitter in PCL).
Boof is listed as one of the youngest in AA, which is no longer accurate,
since he's in hi-A now. Diaz should've been on here, too, I think, but he
lost a year due to age-gate.
And Liriano is just 18 years old in lo-A??
How's he doing?
-Arvin
PS> Any word on how Benavidez is doing this year? He really got my hopes up
after his enormous 200 PA season last year.
michael bakunin
> (2nd youngest hitter in PCL).
Yeah, he's no Crash Davis.
> And Liriano is just 18 years old in lo-A??
> How's he doing?
He's been on and off the DL this year; 4/25-5/9 and 5/22-5/30. I read
that he had a sore elbow, which I hope isn't serious. I don't think
he's pitched yet since his last stint.
IP H R ER HR BB SO
Hagerstown 2002 30.0 19 19 10 2 13 33
Salem-Keizer 2001 9.0 7 5 5 2 1 12
Considering what I've read (variations on 'raw lefty who throws 98'),
that show promise. He is giving up a walk every other inning, but
he's striking people out and not hit when he does cross the plate.
> PS> Any word on how Benavidez is doing this year? He really got my hopes up
> after his enormous 200 PA season last year.
Not as good as last year, but everyone seems to love his talent:
AVG OBP SLG AB H HR BB SO
Hagerstown 2002 .265 .321 .434 196 52 4 15 62
Salem-Keizer 2001 .319 .395 .537 188 60 9 24 54
It's nice to see a functioning farm system again.
-mb
Arvin Hsu
The minor league baseball season
has reached the approximately 40% point. I was doing some clean up last
week and came across my preseason Top 300 Prospects list. While, in
general, I am very comfortable with the list, it certainly could use
some updating. So here is an updated Top 50 (original ranking in
parentheses) The list will be up on the website this Sunday. Feel lucky
because you all are the first people to see it!!!:
1) Mark Prior, SP, Cubs (7)
2) Hank Blalock, 3B, Rangers (3)
3) *Josh Beckett, SP, Marlins (1)
4) *Sean Burroughs, 3B, Padres (2)
5) *Juan Cruz, SP, Cubs (4)
6) Chris Snelling, OF, Mariners (5)
7) Austin Kearns, OF, Reds (10)
8) Jack Cust, OF, Rockies (11)
9) Jake Peavy, SP, Padres (15)
10) Carl Crawford, OF, Devil Rays (24)
11) Brandon Phillips, SS, Expos (38)
12) *Nick Johnson, 1B, Yankees (6)
13) *Carlos Hernandez, SP, Astros (17)
14) Jose Reyes, SS, Mets (9)
15) *Carlos Pena, 1B, Athletics (13)
16) Michael Cuddyer, OF, Twins (21)
17) Joe Borchard, OF, White Sox (20)
18) Justin Morneau, 1B, Twins (22)
19) Adrian Gonzalez, 1B, Marlins (12)
20) Jesse Foppert,SP, Giants (146) ***WOOHOO***
21) Jerome Williams, SP, Giants (14) ***Due to his lackluster initial starts***
22) Hee Seop Choi, 1B, Cubs (25)
23) Mark Teixiera, 1B/3B, Rangers (23)
24) Nick Neuguebauer, SP, Brewers (8)
25) Juan Rivera, OF, Yankees (46)
26) Chin Feng Chen, 1B, Dodgers (30)
27) Rafael Soriano, SP, Mariners (43)
28) *Eric Hinske, 3B, Blue Jays (110)
29) Drew Henson, 3B, Yankees (27)
30) Jimmy Gobble, SP, Royals (29)
31) Joe Mauer, C, Twins (32)
32) Josh Hamilton, OF, Devil Rays (36)
33) Marlon Byrd, OF, Phillies (28)
34) Oliver Perez, SP, Padres (121)
35) Dennis Tankersley, SP, Padres (18)
36) John Stephens, SP, Orioles (39)
37) Orlando Hudson, 2B, Blue Jays (42)
38) Brandon Claussen, SP, Yankees (47)
39) Estaban German, 2B, Athletics (48)
40) Josh Phelps, C, Blue Jays (49)
41) Ryan Ludwick, OF, Rangers (81)
42) Ramon Santiago, 2B/SS, Tigers (76)
43) Brett Myers, SP, Phillies (57)
44) Alexis Gomez, OF, Royals (58)
45) Michael Restovich, OF, Twins (54)
46) Oscar Villarreal, SP, Diamondbacks (120)
47) Kurt Ainsworth, SP, Giants (66) ***He moved up!***
48) Jonny Gomes, OF, Devil Rays (155)
49) Dewon Brazelton, SP, Devil Rays (80)
50t) Casey Kotchman, 1B, Angels (33)
50t) Jon <91>Corey<92> Hart, 1B, Brewers (NR)
*Has used up <93>rookie<94> eligibility
Where Have You Gone?
These players were on the original Top 50 list, but can<92>t be found on
the current one:
Wilson Betemit (16), Boof Bonser (19), Kelly Johnson (26), Gabe Gross
(34), Dave Kelton (35), Alex Escobar (37), Omar Infante (40), Francisco
Rodriguez (41), Ryan Anderson (44), Antonio Perez (45), Angel Berroa
(50).
***Let's hope Bonser rebounds***
-Arvin
Arvin Hsu
1) Hank Blalock, 3B, Rangers (3)
2) Chris Snelling, OF, Mariners (5)
3) Jack Cust, OF, Rockies (11)
4) Jake Peavy, SP, Padres (15)
5) Carl Crawford, OF, Devil Rays (24)
6) Brandon Phillips, SS, Expos (38)
7) Jose Reyes, SS, Mets (9)
8) *Carlos Pena, 1B, Athletics (13) *not for long*
9) Michael Cuddyer, OF, Twins (21)
10) Joe Borchard, OF, White Sox (20)
11) Justin Morneau, 1B, Twins (22)
12) Adrian Gonzalez, 1B, Marlins (12)
13) Jesse Foppert,SP, Giants (146) ***WOOHOO***
14) Jerome Williams, SP, Giants (14) ***Due to his lackluster initial starts***
15) Hee Seop Choi, 1B, Cubs (25)
16) Mark Teixiera, 1B/3B, Rangers (23)
17) Nick Neuguebauer, SP, Brewers (8)
18) Juan Rivera, OF, Yankees (46)
19) Chin Feng Chen, 1B, Dodgers (30)
20) Rafael Soriano, SP, Mariners (43)
21) Drew Henson, 3B, Yankees (27)
22) Jimmy Gobble, SP, Royals (29)
23) Joe Mauer, C, Twins (32)
24) Josh Hamilton, OF, Devil Rays (36)
25) Marlon Byrd, OF, Phillies (28)
26) Oliver Perez, SP, Padres (121)
27) John Stephens, SP, Orioles (39)
28) Orlando Hudson, 2B, Blue Jays (42)
29) Brandon Claussen, SP, Yankees (47)
30) Estaban German, 2B, Athletics (48) **didn't he get called up?**
31) Josh Phelps, C, Blue Jays (49)
32) Ryan Ludwick, OF, Rangers (81)
33) Ramon Santiago, 2B/SS, Tigers (76)
34) Brett Myers, SP, Phillies (57)
35) Alexis Gomez, OF, Royals (58)
36) Michael Restovich, OF, Twins (54)
37) Oscar Villarreal, SP, Diamondbacks (120)
38) Kurt Ainsworth, SP, Giants (66) ***He moved up!***
39) Jonny Gomes, OF, Devil Rays (155)
40) Dewon Brazelton, SP, Devil Rays (80)
41t) Casey Kotchman, 1B, Angels (33)
42t) Jon <91>Corey<92> Hart, 1B, Brewers (NR)
ooops. I deleted what I thought were on current rosters, but were
actually just footnoted "used up rookie elegibility" Most of the top 10-15,
however, should be fairly accurate.
ahem. oops. Snelling is on the Mariner's roster. So bump everyone up one,
making Foppert and Williams the #12/#13 prospect who aren't in the majors yet.
Besides, Pena, Blalock, and Cust all already belong in the majors., making
them both top 10. hehe.
-Arvin
michael bakunin
IP H R ER BB SO HR
6/8 Tucson 7.0 6 0 0 2 10 0
6/2 Sac'to 6.0 5 2 2 1 5 0
5/28 Tucson 4.2 8 3 3 4 0 1
5/23 Iowa 6.1 3 0 0 2 3 0
5/18 Omaha 6.2 2 0 0 1 3 0
Ten strikeouts and two walks in seven innings is none too shabby.
Anyone hear whether this means his velocity is back?
IP H R ER BB SO K/9 K/BB BB/IP
Williams, J 73.1 71 33 29 21 52 6.4 2.5 1/3.5
-mb
Dave
>>Now 4 of 5 quality starts -- adding ten strikeouts:
IP H R ER BB SO HR
6/8 Tucson 7.0 6 0 0 2 10 0
6/2 Sac'to 6.0 5 2 2 1 5 0
5/28 Tucson 4.2 8 3 3 4 0 1
5/23 Iowa 6.1 3 0 0 2 3 0
5/18 Omaha 6.2 2 0 0 1 3 0
Ten strikeouts and two walks in seven innings is none too shabby.
Anyone hear whether this means his velocity is back?<<
The thing that impresses me is that his most recent success was
against the team that had hit him the hardest (plus they're a good
hitting team). He adjusted to *them* and that's a great sign. As for
his velocity, I haven't heard, but the signs are there.
IP H R ER BB SO K/9 K/BB BB/IP
>>Williams, J 73.1 71 33 29 21 52 6.4 2.5 1/3.5<<
20 years-old. This is the PCL, boys and girls (one home run allowed
in at least his last 31 innings? Sick!). 'nuf said.
-Dave
michael bakunin
up any taters. Maybe Round Rock has Foppert's number.
IP H R ER BB SO HR
J.Foppert 5 8 5 5 4 2 0
YTD IP H R ER BB SO HR
Foppert 61.1 44 22 19 21 74 3
-mb
Dave
Foppert's recovering from the effects of a blister problem, hence the
longer layoff between starts. He was supposed to be out until after
the TL All-Star break, but I guess he couldn't resist a rematch with
the TL's best pitcher.
-Dave
michael bakunin
> longer layoff between starts.
Foppert went from the Texas League frying pan to the PCL fire, and
judging by his line last night, blisters weren't bothering him:
IP H R ER BB SO HR
vs Omaha 6 5 2 1 1 8 0
YTD IP H R ER BB SO HR
Shreveport 61.1 44 22 19 21 74 3
Fresno 6 5 2 1 1 8 0
AA - AAA 67.1 49 24 20 22 82 3
The Fresno Bee ran a nice little feature on him:
http://www.fresnobee.com/sports/story/3259968p-4286392c.html
> He was supposed to be out until after
> the TL All-Star break, but I guess he couldn't resist a rematch with
> the TL's best pitcher.
Saarloos got called up to the Astros and pitched against the Brewers
last night. He got a bunch of groundouts and four strikeouts, then
they got to him in the fifth. I still like his chances, though not as
much as I do Mr. Foppert's. His feel-good feature is at
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/sports/1458721
choice line: Astros' scouting director to scout: "We're drafting your
boy Saarloos, and your job the rest of the year is to find out where
he's going to be drafted. If we don't get him, you're fired."
-mb
Arvin Hsu
michael bakunin <bakun...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Foppert's recovering from the effects of a blister problem, hence the
>> longer layoff between starts.
>
>Foppert went from the Texas League frying pan to the PCL fire, and
>judging by his line last night, blisters weren't bothering him:
>
> IP H R ER BB SO HR
>vs Omaha 6 5 2 1 1 8 0
>
>YTD IP H R ER BB SO HR
>Shreveport 61.1 44 22 19 21 74 3
>Fresno 6 5 2 1 1 8 0
>AA - AAA 67.1 49 24 20 22 82 3
>
woohoo!!! He keeps up his insane K/IP ratio in his first
start @ the bandbox!
v. nice
-Arvin
michael bakunin
Is the new park still a bandbox? I can't find the dimensions.
-mb
Adam Coutts
:>
:> Is the new park still a bandbox? I can't find the dimensions.
Doesn't appear to be. This year, ERAs are low and BAs/HR totals are also.
So, unless the Grizzly pitchers all suddenly got worse, and the hitters all
suddenly got better ...
michael bakunin
Cnnsi has http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/minors/stats/2002/pclfresnohmrd/
The numbers are incomplete, but I can fake up home/road lines. The
biggest problem with the data is that there are many more road games
in the sample. Still:
AVG OBP SLG AB+BB (fake PA)
Hitting, home: .270 .317 .398 1042
Hitting, road: .257 .302 .380 1512
So, looks like continued inflation of average and slugging, with the
sample-size caveat. For pitchers, I can't fudge slugging percentage,
so I used runs-per-nine.
AVG OBP R/9 IP*3+H+BB (fake PA)
Pitching, home: .245 .337 5.78 1239
Pitching, road: .245 .331 5.02 1648
Again, it looks like Grizzlies Stadium inflates run scoring.
-mb
Adam Coutts
Thanks for those numbers. It does indeed look like the new park inflates
scoring relative to the rest of the PCL (which is, of course, saying
something). It still looks to me to be less of an extreme effect than the
old park had, however.
Adam Coutts
michael bakunin
delivered the strikeouts in spades. Tonight's line:
IP H R ER BB SO HR
vs Calgary 7 5 3 3 3 12 1
Lest basic ratios be eluding anyone, I've added a few.
YTD IP H R ER BB SO HR K/9 K/BB IP/BB WHIP
Shreveport 61.1 44 22 19 21 74 3 10.9 3.5 2.9 1.1
Fresno 13 10 5 4 4 20 1 13.8 5.0 3.3 1.1
AA - AAA 74.1 54 27 23 25 94 4 11.4 3.8 3.0 1.1
Mr. Foppert turns 22 in July. Last year he was pitching in low-A.
-mb
Arvin Hsu
egads. this is becoming more unbelievable with each start.
-Arvin
Dave
>>Alas, our hero rings up a loss (via tater in the seventh). Still,
he
delivered the strikeouts in spades. Tonight's line:
IP H R ER BB SO HR
vs Calgary 7 5 3 3 3 12 1
Lest basic ratios be eluding anyone, I've added a few.
YTD IP H R ER BB SO HR K/9 K/BB IP/BB WHIP
Shreveport 61.1 44 22 19 21 74 3 10.9 3.5 2.9 1.1
Fresno 13 10 5 4 4 20 1 13.8 5.0 3.3 1.1
AA - AAA 74.1 54 27 23 25 94 4 11.4 3.8 3.0 1.1
Mr. Foppert turns 22 in July. Last year he was pitching in low-A.<<
And just to add to the expectation factor...
>>Fresno Grizzlies pitchers Joe Nathan and Jerome Williams sat behind
home plate, charting teammate Jesse Foppert's pitches during Sunday's
game against Calgary. They watched Foppert strike out five in row
during the first two innings -- and had the same reaction as everyone
else who saw the 95 mph strikes in his second Triple-A start.
"I knew he had good stuff, but five in a row -- and seven of the first
nine?" Williams said. "That's impressive."
Impressive, but not enough for the Grizzlies, who lost to the Cannons
4-1.
Foppert finished with 12 strikeouts, one off the team record set by
Chris Brock in 1998 and equalled by Ryan Jensen in 1999.
Foppert never wanted to be a pitcher. The Grizzlies have University of
San Francisco coach Nino Giarratano to thank for putting Foppert on
the mound. Even when Giarratano convinced him to start pitching, he
kept playing first base, hitting a team-high .403 as a junior before a
stress fracture temporarily sidelined him. Even now, he is still
wowing his new teammates in batting practice.
"He's hitting rockets off the wall," Williams said. "It's weird seeing
a pitcher hit like that."<<
Sick, isn't it? By the way, I snagged that off the board at the
Giants' site and they got it from the Fresno Bee. And according to
Baseball America, Foppert fanned 10 out of the first 14 batters,
including the side in the second and fourth innings.
-Dave
michael bakunin
IP H R ER BB SO HR
6/29 Tacoma 4 2 0 0 5 7 0
7/4 Las Vegas 7 3 1 1 2 9 1
YTD IP H R ER BB SO HR K/9 K/BB IP/BB WHIP
Shreveport 61.1 44 22 19 21 74 3 10.9 3.5 2.9 1.1
Fresno 24 15 6 5 11 36 2 13.5 3.3 2.2 1.1
-mb
michael bakunin
After a solid effort against the A's triple-A club, Mr. Foppert
against Vegas gave up two rabbit balls, six runs and seven hits -- all
in one inning. Still, he struck out twelve and walked none, and gave
up no hits his other five innings.
The Fresno Bee quoted Grizzlies manager Lenn Sakata as saying, "It's
remarkable what he can do. And he doesn't have much experience; it's
talent alone. With some experience, he'll be able to make better
decisions on what to throw."
-mb
IP H R ER BB SO HR
7/11 Sac'to 6 3 2 2 3 6 0
7/16 Las Vegas 6 7 6 6 0 12 2
YTD IP H R ER BB SO HR K/9 K/BB IP/BB WHIP
Shreveport 61.1 44 22 19 21 74 3 10.9 3.5 2.9 1.1
Fresno 36 25 14 13 14 54 4 13.5 3.9 2.6 1.1
Dave
>>Who here said the Giants' young pitchers needed a little adversity?
After a solid effort against the A's triple-A club, Mr. Foppert
against Vegas gave up two rabbit balls, six runs and seven hits -- all
in one inning. Still, he struck out twelve and walked none, and gave
up no hits his other five innings.<<
To put it in further perspective...
First nine batters: 0-9 with *seven* K's
Next nine batters: 7-9 with no K's
Final nine batters: 0-9 with 5 K's
For the game 6 innings, seven hits, six earnies, ZERO walks, twelve
K's.
He blew away the first nine, but they adjusted to him when the lineup
turned over. When it turned over *again,* it was Jesse's turn to
adjust, and adjust he did. Wow. He's learning. When he finally learns
how *pitch* his stuff, oh my.
This kid is fun to follow. Next year, will we have a Travis Ishikawa
hit watch?
-Dave
Tommy
I believe the Giants should trade Jesse to Cleveland for Chuck Finley,
thereby putting us in position to make our "big pennant run."
Strikker9
Thanks
Brian
James Farrar
Tommy wrote in message
<4398-3D3...@storefull-2212.public.lawson.webtv.net>...
> I believe the Giants should trade Jesse to Cleveland for Chuck Finley,
> thereby putting us in position to make our "big pennant run."
Don't give BS ideas!
Tommy
I don't know about giving BS any ideas about that proposed trade but I
just wanted to see if I could give any of you members of the Foppert
cultmaniacs a heart attack! {:^)
michael bakunin
> Next nine batters: 7-9 with no K's
> Final nine batters: 0-9 with 5 K's
Telling, indeed.
Reminds me a bit of one of the double-A games in which he really
struggled early this year. He went only four innings and gave up four
runs in the third -- but struck out the side, that inning and the
next, and finished with eleven K's in twelve outs.
> When he finally learns
> how *pitch* his stuff, oh my.
Fingers crossed.
> This kid is fun to follow. Next year, will we have a Travis Ishikawa
> hit watch?
If he hits like he's supposed to, perhaps. Todd Linden has been about
the only bright spot at the plate in the minors this year. Gotta love
Mr. Linden's walks, but for a switch-hitter he sure can't hit lefties:
.342/.417/.463 vs righties, .218/.328/.236 otherwise. Only fifty or
sixty AB's from the right side, though.
-mb
thawle...@tdl.com
wrote:
You Sir are truly evil. :)
-th