Maddux Arm Therapy?
Winn
anything. Within this discussion:
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/pumped_up_padres_pound_five_hrs/
There was talk of steriods for the Giles brothers and then arm therapy
for Maddux and increased velocity lately. Again this may be someones
steriods joke or maybe there is some weird electro-shock or massage or
temperature or accupuncture kind of thing Greg is doing. I know over
the last few months I have been seeing some higher velocities pop up
but I attributed it to screwy stadium guns. Any ideas? The comment
that I found interesting is below.
Seeking the Light,
Marty Winn
7. shoewizard Posted: September 04, 2007 at 03:31 PM (#2511416)
And Mad-dog was hitting 87 mph on the TV gun.
Maddux looks great. I was talking to levski on the phone from the
game. He looks as good as he did 6 years ago. That arm therapy stuff
he is getting really seems to be helping him a lot, whether or not
it's a placebo effect.
According to MLB game day, in his previous start against the D Backs
last week he wasn't just hitting 89, but working at 88-89
consistently.
Right now pretty much any pitcher looks good against the D backs, but
Maddux has kicked ass for 2 months now and really seems like a
different guy with that extra 2-3 MPH back on his fastball. It gives
him enough spread with his breaking stuff to make him lethal again,
not just good.
Hoover
>This was probably joking
>There was talk of steriods for the Giles brothers and then arm therapy
>for Maddux and increased velocity lately. Again this may be someones
(A) You are trying to slime the reputation of two brothers who grew up here
in San Diego, and have competed honorably throughout their careers.
(B) Ditto for future Hall of Famer Greg Maddux, who has NEVER depended
on the speed of his pitches, but rather their location and movement.
Take your totally unsubstantiated allegations and stick them.
Hoover
Seapig
Come on, Hoover, the guy didn't accuse anybody of anything, he just
asked a reasonable question, arising out of a discussion where others
may have been throwing some accusations around.
Barb =^..^=
Barb =^..^=
Hoover
>Bravo, Hoover
>Barb =^..^=
Barb:
This has been a stressful week for me, and returning home now to
learn I earned a " Bravo" from Queen Barb has made my day !
Thanks. :)
Hoover
Jolly Rogers
Hoover, you don't know me, but I read this group each day. Allow me to say,
on behalf of Mr. Winn, that you misunderstood his post. I assure you and
everyone, he is not a troll.
I've been corresponding with Marty off and on for many years via Usenet
posts. He is one of the biggest Greg Maddux fans on the planet (as am I). No
one wants to see Maddux win and excel more than he does.
Oh, and he wasn't disrespecting or slighting the Giles brothers either.
Trust me... Anything they can do to help Maddux and his team win will please
Marty (and me).
I think this was just a big misunderstanding. Marty was simply questioning
something he read at the "baseballthinkfactory" website.
Respectfully,
Jolly Rogers
-- Go Padres!
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Winn
Hoover, Barb, other Padres Fans:
I'd like you to visit a webpage that I run: http://www.geocities.com/go_maddux/
It's fallen into a state where I am not updating it but I think that
it shows pretty well that I am not one inclined to think poorly of
Greg Maddux. Go search the Braves or Cubs newsgroups. Check out my
home page at: http://www.geocities.com/marty_winn/pages/front.htm
look at whose picture is there. Look at the links. For fun look at:
http://www.geocities.com/marty_winn/pages/life.htm scroll down to
where it says sports fan. My two favorite players are listed Greg
Maddux and then Marcus Giles. Take a look at this thread on the
Braves newsgroup
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.baseball.atlanta-braves/browse_frm/thread/34a11f4cafbf1fee/9577928c25ec3014?lnk=gst&q=giles+winn+andrew&rnum=1&hl=en#9577928c25ec3014
where I rip into Andrew Jones for colliding with Marcus Giles. How
about here where I introduce myself to this group:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.baseball.sd-padres/browse_frm/thread/2dd49ea710124ab8/d0caa18cc73c89a1?lnk=gst&q=winn&rnum=7&hl=en#d0caa18cc73c89a1
Really you could not be more wrong. Any sort of reasonable person
would apologize, we'll see if you match the description.
You aparently have no skill in reading comprehension. I made no
accusations. Beyond all that you have not actually been helpful in
answering my actual question. I wanted to know if anyone knew
anything about Maddux getting arm therapy. Another fan (who is
actually helpful and reasonable) provided this link to me that
answered most of my questions. http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/padres/20070829-9999-1s29padnotes.html
Thanks to Jolly and SeaPig for defending me.
Shining the Light,
Marty Winn
Hoover
> I made no accusations.
> "There was talk of steriods for the Giles brothers "
That is an accusation, of breaking the law, and questioning their integrity.
Those are the first words of your post on Sept. 5th.
> Any sort of reasonable person would apologize, we'll see if you
> match the description.
>
You come into the San Diego Padre news group, where no one has ever
heard of you, and accuse two San Diego natives of using steroids.
Then you're shocked that we object, and say you're owed an apology.
Check the definitions of "sociopath" and "troll."
Hoover
Winn
Since I know you have problems with reading comprehension I should not
be surprised that you had nearly as much trouble with my second post
as my first.
Did you check any of the links I sent? This is not my first time on
this group. I have not been here often enough to expect any of you to
recognize me but maybe a little research was in order before you start
impuning my motives and telling me to stick things.
Actually I said that a reasonable person would apologize.
Look back to my first post and read for comprehension a bit. I'm
guessing that you did not go to the baseball think factory link that I
provided where indeed "There was talk of steriods for the Giles
brothers" I wasn't doing it. I was reporting that there was talk of
steriods on that thread. Surely your head is not so burried in the
sand that you don't realize that these allegations have been around
the Giles are you? My point is that I did not make the accusation
against the Giles. I was reporting that others were. You are killing
the mesenger. I know you don't know the messenger so I offered you
some opportunities (links) to get to know the messenger. You have
apparently failed to make any attempt to examine what my motives were
even after 3 others have told you that you were misreading the
situation. Any chance you could examine the situation? Not doing so
sounds more like the troll to me.
Again to restate. I did not accuse anyone of using steriods. You
misread. Then when I attempted to make you see the error of your ways
you refused any re-examination.
Others, is Hoover a respected member of this group or should I write
him off as an unredeemable troll that I should not try to waste my
time trying to convince with logic?
Swillabrew
news:1189101973.8...@r34g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
Hoover has been posting for at least as long as I have (since the last
century) & has always been a respected member of this ng, as much as any of
us actually respect each other. : )
My take on your initial post was also negative as you came off as someone
who was tossing in an inflammatory, unsubstantiated accusation of steroid
use by the brothers Giles. I did a cursory Googling of "Giles brothers
steroids" & found only random posts by fans to various forums & blogs, no
actual news media reports.
By coming into a group you are not known in & further rumor & innuendo
regarding a couple of our players, you set yourself up for some negative
responses. Your assertion that you're only the messenger is pretty lame as
by posting the message as you did you really seem to be more of a rumor
mongerer.
If your intent was really to find out about Maddux's arm therapy, why even
toss in the Giles rumors?
Just my 2 cents, take it as you will.
Go Pads !
Winn
> "Winn" <marty.w...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Here is why. Because I had heard no mention of any "arm therapy" for
Maddux and I thought that this was a euphamism for Maddux taking
steriods. This thread had basically died on Baseball Think Factory so
I did not expect to get a response there. I figured the SD people
would know if there was any real "arm therapy". Turns out there was
(I provided a link to a story in the SD paper that someone else
provided to me). I was concerned that Maddux was being accused of
something. I was attempting to check it out.
I was attempting to introduce the BBTF thread without forcing others
to read it. The relevant point was that steriods were being discussed
and Maddux's name came up in the middle of it. If memory serves there
was a quote (http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/padres/
20070904-9999-1s4padres.html) from Geoff Blum saying that they were
"We'r'e back on the juice" This was taken to mean that the Padres
offense was back and also a tongue-in-cheek allusion to steriods. He
and Brian Giles had homered in the game (5 total HRs).
It's just crazy that I get jumped on like I have. I can kind of
understand a misinterpretation if someone read what I wrote without
bothering to look at the link I provided or read what I wrote very
closely. I could have more clearly stated my basic question clearly
which would have been "Is Maddux getting arm therapy? Do you know any
details?"
But come on at this point is it not obvious that it was a
misinterpretation and a new Padres fan has been treated very
unhospitably?
Hoover
>It's just crazy that I get jumped on like I have.
No it isn't, for reasons Swillabrew, Barb and I have outlined.
Try to imagine someone using a news group to spread
attacks on YOU and your family.
If you have ever heard of George Harrison, check out
his lyrics for ,"The Devil's Radio", on the damage that
gossip does.
Hoover
tom dunne
> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:14:02 -0000, Winn <marty.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >It's just crazy that I get jumped on like I have.
>
> No it isn't, for reasons Swillabrew, Barb and I have outlined.
>
> Try to imagine someone using a news group to spread
> attacks on YOU and your family.
>
> If you have ever heard of George Harrison, check out
> his lyrics for ,"The Devil's Radio", on the damage that
> gossip does.
>
> Hoover
Just stopping in from the Braves' group to see what the drama is all
about. Reading that anyone thinks Marty is negative about Greg Maddux
is killing me with irony :D
Swillabrew
Marty, you say were attempting to introduce the BTF thing without forcing
anyone to read it, then you complain when someone responds to your post
without reading the BTF bit. You do see how that's a little confusing, yes?
Again, if your true intent was to gain info on the arm therapy Maddux was
getting, why even throw in the steroids talk about M&B?
And for you to assume arm therapy means steroids it a bit of a stretch too,
IMO. Pitchers more than any other athletes I can think of are constantly
having ice packs applied during & after games, wearing jackets to keep their
arms warm when the rest of the team is in short sleeves, playing long toss
the day after pitching, & seeking out any & all forms of physical therapy,
stretching, yoga, massage, acupuncture, etc. It seems far more likely that
Maddux is using those kind of alternative medicine treatments as opposed to
jumping into the world of steroids at this point in his career & in the
current state of excitement & condemnation regarding them.
If you really want to be a new Padres fan & join in this ng, why not just
say it was a misunderstanding & let it go? You're not in politics, are you?
: )
Go Pads !
Swillabrew
news:1189107571.4...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
If it will help with your survival, I think the bigger issue is dragging the
Giles boys into the mix. Hope you make it. : )
Go Pads !
Winn
> >It's just crazy that I get jumped on like I have.
>
> No it isn't, for reasons Swillabrew, Barb and I have outlined.
>
> Try to imagine someone using a news group to spread
> attacks on YOU and your family.
>
> If you have ever heard of George Harrison, check out
> his lyrics for ,"The Devil's Radio", on the damage that
> gossip does.
>
> Hoover
I was not using the newsgroup to spread gossip. I was using the
newsgroup to find out if Greg Maddux was getting some sort of arm
therapy. Has Maddux indeed gained velocity? To what is Maddux's
excellent performance of late to be attributed? Topics that I would
have guessed would be of interest around here. Apparently not.
I'm further guessing that you are not going to admit that you misread
my post and that it was unbecoming to ask me to stick allegations that
I did not make. I've often wondered why the Padres newsgroup is so
barren of conversation (as say compared to the Braves newsgroup). I'm
left to assume it is because you salt the soil of conversation in the
Padres fields.
Swillabrew
> On Sep 6, 3:24 pm, Hoover <Hoo...@cst.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:14:02 -0000, Winn <marty.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >It's just crazy that I get jumped on like I have.
>>
>> No it isn't, for reasons Swillabrew, Barb and I have outlined.
>>
>> Try to imagine someone using a news group to spread
>> attacks on YOU and your family.
>>
>> If you have ever heard of George Harrison, check out
>> his lyrics for ,"The Devil's Radio", on the damage that
>> gossip does.
>>
>> Hoover
>
> I was not using the newsgroup to spread gossip. I was using the
> newsgroup to find out if Greg Maddux was getting some sort of arm
> therapy. Has Maddux indeed gained velocity? To what is Maddux's
> excellent performance of late to be attributed? Topics that I would
> have guessed would be of interest around here. Apparently not.
>
Actually, his W-L record is what we're most interested in, but certainly
other aspects of his game are of interest as well.
> I'm further guessing that you are not going to admit that you misread
> my post and that it was unbecoming to ask me to stick allegations that
> I did not make.
See if you misread this:
So, I hear Bobby Cox has finally quit beating his wife. All the stories
posted at www.dipshits.blog could just be jokes, but do you suppose they're
true?
> I've often wondered why the Padres newsgroup is so
> barren of conversation (as say compared to the Braves newsgroup). I'm
> left to assume it is because you salt the soil of conversation in the
> Padres fields.
>
> Shining the Light,
> Marty Winn
>
More likely there are more options for those in SD to choose from than those
in the A-T-L.
Go Pads !
Jolly Rogers
> No it isn't, for reasons Swillabrew, Barb and I have outlined.
>
> Try to imagine someone using a news group to spread
> attacks on YOU and your family.
>
> If you have ever heard of George Harrison, check out
> his lyrics for ,"The Devil's Radio", on the damage that
> gossip does.
Hoover, I know that tempers are running high right now, but this is all just
an unfortunate misunderstanding. Marty's comments were misconstrued,
although I can understand how it happened. I can assure you that he is not a
troll or a trouble maker.
Maddux is my favorite player of all time and has been for 20+ years when the
Cubs first called him up. I only personally know of a couple of people who
are bigger Maddux fans than me, and Marty is probably one of them.
It is just disappointing to see an initial meeting between two people begin
on a misunderstanding. Any other time, you guys probably would have taken a
liking to one another.
Please do not take my comments as a sign of disrespect toward you, Hoover,
because I realize you are a respected member of this group, and I rarely
ever post here (but I do read the newsgroup daily).
And Marty... With all due respect, please leave out loaded terms when
"seeking the light", guy. Don't even mention your worst fears. There are
other ways to pose queries.
And how about Maddux these days! Over his last 10 starts, he has pitched
61.1 innings, with only 17 ERs and 2 BBs, while going 5-2 with 2.49 ERA. He
has not surrendered more than 3 ERs in any of his last 10 starts. Not shabby
for a number 3 guy who is 41 years old. And his glove work has been as
impressive as ever. I see another Gold Glove for him this year.
--
Jolly Rogers
--Go Padres!
Winn
I'm willing to say that I was obviously misunderstood. In hindsight I
could have made my point clearer by directly asking my question: "Has
Maddux been receiving arm therapy?" It would be nice if there were
similar efforts on other sides that said something along the lines of
"I misunderstood you, I'm sorry I told you to stick it, Welcome
aboard"
I'm sure this will win me no extra fans but I am interested in being a
Padres fan in the same way I was a Dodger fan for 3 month at the end
of last year and a Cubs fan for 2.5 years before that. I'm a Braves
fan who follows Maddux extremely closely and wishes all to recognize
his greatness. I root for Maddux so much that I prefer Maddux to beat
the Braves as long it does not directly lead to keeping or eliminating
the Braves from the playoffs. With the Braves dead I'm all Padres
because I want Maddux to win another WS ring. Beyond that I'm a
Marcus fan from when he was in A ball for the Braves. Now that he is
with the Pads that is more reason to root for him. I love watching
Peavy pitch. I like the Padres but if/when Maddux moves on so do I.
Hope that is acceptable. It's more than most other long-time Maddux
fans I know will offer.
I believe mentioning steriods was completely justified. It was
inherent in my question. I wanted to know if Maddux was being accused
of using steriods or if the poster was serious about the arm therapy.
If you read the article at: http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/padres/20070829-9999-1s29padnotes.html
You will find words like "agreed to allow head trainer", and "closer
Trevor Hoffman and other Padres pitchers persuaded Maddux to consent
to the trainers' maintenance, something Maddux had never done in his
career" Maddux has not get stuff like this done in the past. I was
surprised it was happening and I wanted to verify that it was so.
Seems reasonable to me.
As to "attempting to introduce the BTF thing without forcing anyone to
read it, then you complain when someone responds to your post without
reading the BTF bit" I hoped that you would read the thread but I now
realistically that only the hyper-interested would do that. Those
that jump down my throat I would have hoped would have at least
glanced at the thread but I attempted to condense it. Apparently in a
way that was deemed offensive. I don't think justifiably so but
obviously it happened.
The arm therapy was mentioned in the context of steriods in the
thread. Do you see the connection now? Do you see why it might not
be a stretch? All those things that you suggested that pitchers do
after pitching, I know Maddux pretty well. He throws once between
starts, but the other Braves threw twice. He warms up from the
stretch almost exclusively, he does not stick around on the bench
after being removed from the game under any circumstances, he is not
available for post-game interviews because he is getting his arm iced
or heated. This stood out as a change to me.
Jolly Rogers
> I love watching Peavy pitch.
I do too. I've taken a real interest in watching Peavy, Young, and Germano
pitch. They have the potential to form quite a formidable nucleus in the
future.
Peavy, Young, and Maddux are quite a formidable trio in the here and now.
> I like the Padres but if/when Maddux moves on so do I. Hope that is
> acceptable. It's more than most other long-time Maddux fans I know will
> offer.
Whoever Maddux plays for will always be my favorite team, first and
foremost. I appreciate that most people disagree with "jumping around" like
that, but with the advent of free agency, it has been difficult for me to
always like the same team. Why? Because Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz, in that
order, were my three favorite players for years while they were in Atlanta,
and they still are. Bobby Cox has always been my favorite manager, and he
still is, but there is also a lot to like about Bud Black.
When Maddux retires someday, if Peavy and Young stay with the Padres, I can
see myself continuing to follow the Padres as my favorite team. There's a
lot to like about the team as a whole, including its manager and GM. Bud
Black has really impressed me in his first year as a skipper. Sure, he's
made some mistakes, but he's learning and he has done a lot of things right.
The Padres are within a game or two of having the best record in the NL.
If the Padres offense can get hot at the right time, I can see the team
advancing to the WS. I would love to see Maddux with some additional
hardware and post-season victories.
--
Jolly Rogers
--Go Padres
Swillabrew
I do understand your feelings & intentions better now, thanks for taking the
time to go into the details. Maddux is an awesome player as well as a great
person by all accounts. I've admired him since his Braves days & couldn't
believe it when the Bravos let that incredible battery of pitchers break up.
I realize they have payroll constraints like the rest of MLB (except
Steinbrenner, of course), but when they had Glavine, Smoltz & Maddux they
were far & away the most fearsome pitching staff in modern history.
I do find your assumption, or suspicion, or whatever it was, that Maddux
would be using steroids even harder to understand given your history as a
huge fan of his. Without trying to generate any more animosity, can I ask
why you would entertain that thought? Were there any previous allegations
of steroid use by Maddux? He certainly doesn't look like a roider, at least
not like a Schilling or a Rocker.
I'm pretty easy going, although a bit of a smartass at times, & am happy to
give you the benefit of the doubt on this one. Hopefully, you'll be hanging
out here for another few years as Greg moves towards 400 wins.
Go Pads !
Dan Szymborski
marty...@gmail.com says...
> On Sep 6, 3:24 pm, Hoover <Hoo...@cst.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:14:02 -0000, Winn <marty.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >It's just crazy that I get jumped on like I have.
> >
> > No it isn't, for reasons Swillabrew, Barb and I have outlined.
> >
> > Try to imagine someone using a news group to spread
> > attacks on YOU and your family.
> >
> > If you have ever heard of George Harrison, check out
> > his lyrics for ,"The Devil's Radio", on the damage that
> > gossip does.
> >
> > Hoover
>
> I was not using the newsgroup to spread gossip. I was using the
> newsgroup to find out if Greg Maddux was getting some sort of arm
> therapy. Has Maddux indeed gained velocity? To what is Maddux's
> excellent performance of late to be attributed? Topics that I would
> have guessed would be of interest around here. Apparently not.
Don't feel bad Marty - I've been around a long-time too and got flamed
by the same person when I simply suggested that it would be helpful if
Greene got his OBP up over the .269 it was at the time. He ranted and
raved, calling me a troll and that I was only saying that because Greene
had a big game against the Orioles. You're always going to run into
people who are just plain anti-social.
--
Dan Szymborski
d...@baseballprimer.REMOVE.com
"A critic who refuses to attack what is bad is
not a whole-hearted supporter of what is good."
- Robert Schumann
K2
>
> Has Maddux indeed gained velocity?
Not that I've noticed.
On the "gun" at Petco Park, he generally tops out around 84, with an
occasional "outlier" at 86-87.
If he's showing higher than that elsewhere, I think it's likely they have
their radar gun calibrated high to get the oohs and aahs from the fans when
guys with "real" fastballs flirt with 99-100 instead of the 95-96 they
probably really throw.
Maddux's strength has always been control and location, even when he was
throwing in the low 90's. That part of his game remains the same. Without
the extra velocity, he does get punished more when he has the odd
mislocation.
> To what is Maddux's excellent performance of late to be attributed?
A lot of it is getting to pitch half his games in pitcher-friendly Petco
Park, where his occasional mistake will often be gobbled up by the
extra-deep "power alleys" rather than providing a souvenir to a kid in the
bleachers in the more hitter-friendly parks around the league. It also helps
that he has a pretty damned good infield defense playing behind him to
vacuum up the ground balls his style tends to generate. With Greene and
Gonzalez providing gold-glove level defense, Giles (before he was injured)
still being an excellent defender, and Kouzmanoff being a pleasant surprise
with the glove (he came in with a "good hit/no glove" rep), it can only help
his overall stats.
Another factor is having a deep, quality bullpen in reserve that allows his
manager to pull him from a game with confidence when he starts to tire
(around the 85-90 pitch mark these days) instead of crossing his fingers and
leaving him in because of not wanting to pass the baton to a shaky relief
crew.
> Topics that I would have guessed would be of interest around here.
> Apparently not.
They are indeed of interest...
Just be aware that the way a discussion is framed can sometimes overshadow
the substance of the issue one is intending to discuss.
Sometimes perception is more real than reality.
K2
news:1189110...@sp12lax.superfeed.net...
I, for one, hope that Maddux will be re-signed for at least another year.
It's clear that he still has plenty left in the tank and still plays with
the intensity and precision he's noted for.
If that means that we garner a few more proxy Padre fans from around the
country, so much the better! :o)
Jolly Rogers
> I do understand your feelings & intentions better now, thanks for taking
> the time to go into the details. Maddux is an awesome player as well as a
> great person by all accounts. I've admired him since his Braves days &
> couldn't believe it when the Bravos let that incredible battery of
> pitchers break up.
That's because John Schuerholtz is not as great of a GM as he is often
credited. He's made a lot of nonsensical blunders over the years, which was
routinely masked by three HOF pitchers who didn't yield many runs and
pitched very deep into games. His main claim to fame was keeping Maddux,
Glavine, and Smoltz together long enough for the Braves to amass a lot of
post-season success. Without that specific nucleus of pitchers, he is now
exposed as the average GM that he is.
> I realize they have payroll constraints like the rest of MLB (except
> Steinbrenner, of course), but when they had Glavine, Smoltz & Maddux they
> were far & away the most fearsome pitching staff in modern history.
Good point.
> I do find your assumption, or suspicion, or whatever it was, that Maddux
> would be using steroids even harder to understand given your history as a
> huge fan of his. Without trying to generate any more animosity, can I ask
> why you would entertain that thought? Were there any previous allegations
> of steroid use by Maddux? He certainly doesn't look like a roider, at
> least not like a Schilling or a Rocker.
Correct. The idea that Maddux has ever engaged in such behavior is
ridiculous. Maddux lives on pure intelligence and late movement on his
pitches, plus he's an incredible extra middle infielder.
> I'm pretty easy going, although a bit of a smartass at times, & am happy
> to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one. Hopefully, you'll be
> hanging out here for another few years as Greg moves towards 400 wins.
400 wins for Maddog would be great. It's not inconceivable, but it's
unlikely. Let's assume that Maddux wins 3 more games this year and finishes
the season with 347 career wins. He will be 53 victories shy of 400 wins. He
would have to pitch 4 more years and average 13.25 wins per year to
accomplish that. As great as he is, that's a tall order. He would have to
pitch at age 45. It's not inconceivable, but it's unlikely. Even Maddux
comments on this below:
I think 375 career wins is more realistic, and I think Marty may have some
information to add on that topic.
The thing to remember is that when Maddux starts, were all watching one of
the greatest pitchers of all time. The things he has accomplished (and will
accomplish) are simply amazing. I'm enjoying this season a lot.
--
Jolly Rogers
--Go Padres!
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
Hoover
>See if you misread this:
>
>So, I hear Bobby Cox has finally quit beating his wife. All the stories
>posted at www.dipshits.blog could just be jokes, but do you suppose they're
>true?
TOUCHE '
Hoover
Swillabrew
news:g1u0e3he31ugtdbut...@4ax.com...
Meant to be instructional, not cruel or mean-spirited. (I did mention that
I'm a smartass) : )
Go Pads !
Barb =^..^=
the Padres discuss group.
NOW GO AWAY!
Barb =^..^=
Winn
I appreciate your goodwill and willingness to give me the benefit of
the doubt. I'm not sure how I stated it but I really don't give any
credence to the idea that Maddux might do roids. I first off wanted
to hear about the details of any arm therapy. If there was no therapy
then I would be left to believe that others were accusing him of
that. And even then I believe that the guys on BBTW were joking.
Maddux is sort of the anti-roid guy, the perfect source of an ironic
joke about steriods. He made it even more so by doing the chicks dig
the long ball comercials. Maddux is playing it up himself. I believe
that Maddux likes it when he occaisonally gets accused of scuffing or
altering baseballs illegally because it gives him an edge because the
batter starts worrying about that too. Steriod rumors might be
similar edge.
The Braves artificial salary cap has always bothered me but that is
the way it is. Really they had to ditch a couple of their pitchers.
And frankly it has worked out pretty well for them keeping Smoltz over
Maddux and Glavine. I miss him on Atlanta though.
I knew about the Rocker steriods rumors but I guess I had not heard
about Schilling. I know a lot of people hate Schilling but not me.
Like me he claims to be a Christian but he ends up doing some pretty
confusing things. It's Clemens that I struggle to not think bad
things about, but much of that is the competition with Maddux.
374 is the number I'm holding out for (I was calling for it in early
2000). I'll take 400 but 3rd place all time and first in the NL is
what I want. Plus that MVP he should have won when he went 19-2.
Winn
I took a look at some of your recent posts. Truly your intellect and
level of discourse is staggering.
Have you considered any of my points? Are are you just Hoover's alter-
ego? We have a guy who likes to reply to all of Jolly Rogers posts
with some one word response that I don't remember exactly. "Me too"
seems to be your echo to Hoover. No content added.
Marty Winn
Winn
> "Winn" <marty.w...@gmail.com> wrote in message
I agree almost completely with what you have to say here. Except that
the bullpen had a run where they let Maddux down pretty regularly and
in spite of Petco Maddux had a bad run at the beginning of July where
he gave up 15 ER in 15.1 IP in 3 starts. This recent success is an
improvement over anything that happened earlier in this season.
Winn
> In article <1189108097.136133.275...@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
> marty.w...@gmail.com says...
>
>
>
> > On Sep 6, 3:24 pm, Hoover <Hoo...@cst.com> wrote:
> > > On Thu, 06 Sep 2007 19:14:02 -0000, Winn <marty.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >It's just crazy that I get jumped on like I have.
>
> > > No it isn't, for reasons Swillabrew, Barb and I have outlined.
>
> > > Try to imagine someone using a news group to spread
> > > attacks on YOU and your family.
>
> > > If you have ever heard of George Harrison, check out
> > > his lyrics for ,"The Devil's Radio", on the damage that
> > > gossip does.
>
> > > Hoover
>
> > I was not using the newsgroup to spread gossip. I was using the
> > newsgroup to find out if Greg Maddux was getting some sort of arm
> > therapy. Has Maddux indeed gained velocity? To what is Maddux's
> > excellent performance of late to be attributed? Topics that I would
> > have guessed would be of interest around here. Apparently not.
>
> Don't feel bad Marty - I've been around a long-time too and got flamed
> by the same person when I simply suggested that it would be helpful if
> Greene got his OBP up over the .269 it was at the time. He ranted and
> raved, calling me a troll and that I was only saying that because Greene
> had a big game against the Orioles. You're always going to run into
> people who are just plain anti-social.
>
> --
> Dan Szymborski
Thanks Dan, I appreciate it. I do enough bad stuff that I deserve
grief for, this was completely unintended and has sort of stunned me.
I recognize your name and have stumbled upon you several other times,
don't know if you remember me from Braves or Maddux posts.
Barb =^..^=
the one you obviously have on top your head!
It`s amazing , some can and do manage to say all that is necessary in
the least amount of space as possible.
I also feel I do not have to impress anyone with vast amounts of
knowledge or lack of it.
And I will continue to back up any person in this discuss group when I
agree with them.
Coming in here with untrue statements and then trying to twist them
around with long winded posts didn`t make anyone
drop to their knees in shock and awe.
or to make it even shorter, forget what I`ve just written in plain old
Barb-speak and simply F.O.
Barb =^..^=
Winn
<snip>
>
> Coming in here with untrue statements and then trying to twist them
> around with long winded posts didn`t make anyone
> drop to their knees in shock and awe.
Pray tell, what do you imagine my motivation to be? If you looked at
any of the links you would be now convinced that I am clearly a Maddux
and Giles supporter. If I brought untrue statements here they weren't
my own and frankly neither of us *knows* if they are true or not. I
never twisted anything to do with steriods. I wanted to know if
Maddux was getting arm therapy. I was not looking to impress anyone
here, I was seeking information not trying to provide any. You have
consistently and completely misread me and in the process you have
been rude and vulgar. You are apparently so vain that you can not
admit that you were wrong even in the face of overwhelming evidence.
Hoover
>Pray tell, what do you imagine my motivation to be?
You don't have a life.
Trolling news groups to start artificial controversies, insulting
a woman's intelligence, putting on an emotional display of
yourself.... it is embarrassing.
Barb has a family, a career, and a life. No wonder you
cannot understand her.
Hoover
Seapig
> On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 13:48:25 -0700, Winn <marty.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Pray tell, what do you imagine my motivation to be?
>
> You don't have a life.
>
> Trolling news groups to start artificial controversies, insulting
> a woman's intelligence, putting on an emotional display of
> yourself.... it is embarrassing.
>
> Barb has a family, a career, and a life. No wonder you
> cannot understand her.
Hoover,
95% of the time, you're one of my favorite posters around here. That
makes it all the more difficult to read your posts during the other 5%
of the time, when you make an ass of yourself. This is part of the 5%.
jessica
club ( No Jolly I did not drop of the face of the earth). As a die
hard Cub fan FIRST I have taken a LOT of grief lately for my sudden
admiration for the Padres ( Much as I love Maddux I had few kind
thoughts for the Dodgers last year). Like Jolly I find it funny that
anyone would think Marty was attacking Maddux or the Padres.
I think Maddux himself put it best on the question of his taking
steriods when he said " If did take them I should get a refund"
Good luck with your season ( unless you face the Cubs of course) and
marvel at your great fortune in having Maddux.
> ...
>
> read more »
Hoover
> when you make an ass of yourself.
This Troll (and that's what he is) came in here trying to slime the good
names of two native San Diegans (the Giles boys) with false charges.
He also personally insulted our colleague Barb.
In my world, you defend your friends.
By chirping at me now, you guarantee that troll boy will continue
this assault. Getting the Regs in a group to start fighting with
each other is what these losers LIVE for.
Hoover
Jolly Rogers
> First greetings Padre fans from another member of the Maddux obsessed
> club ( No Jolly I did not drop of the face of the earth). As a die
> hard Cub fan FIRST I have taken a LOT of grief lately for my sudden
> admiration for the Padres ( Much as I love Maddux I had few kind
> thoughts for the Dodgers last year).
Hi Jessica! How have you been?
I have to be honest, I was so happy when the Cubs sent him to LA, and I am
even happier now that Greg is pitching in pitcher-friendly Petco now. The
Padres are a great team, and Maddux seems to be fitting in extremely well.
> Like Jolly I find it funny that anyone would think Marty was attacking
> Maddux or the Padres.
Well, this whole thread is just very unfortunate. I've read many of Hoover's
and Barb's posts this season, and I enjoy their reading their comments. They
seem like very reasonable people, dedicated Padres' fans, and good people.
Likewise, I have read and enjoyed Marty's posts for years and I think he's a
good person. I know for a fact that he is not a troll, but due to a
misunderstanding and perhaps a poor choice of words, he is perceived as a
troll by some in this NG. As a consequence, things have turned nasty and
personal. It's just very unfortunate.
> Good luck with your season ( unless you face the Cubs of course) and
> marvel at your great fortune in having Maddux.
Get with the program, Jessica! Maddux and the Padres, babe! ;-)
BTW, I was fortunate enough to attend Maddux' start against Houston back in
July! That was the first baseball game I attended since I purchased tickets
to see him last year in Houston (but... he had to start a day early, in St.
Louis last year, due to an injury on the Cubs' staff).
Anyway, Greg had a rough first inning against Houston (3 ERs) during the
game I attended, but he settled down quickly thereafter (he ultimately met
the definition of a quality start).
It was the first time I was fortunate enough to see him pitch live since
2001. I'd be a liar if I didn't confess to being a little choked up when he
took the field in the bottom of the 1st. So many great baseball memories
spanning 20 years. It will be a sad day when he throws his final pitch.
I really enjoyed seeing the ol' master at work out there (and I had a great
seat in the club level just left of home plate). I wish the outcome would
have been different.
I was a little surprised Maddog didn't pitch the 7th inning during that
game, but manager Bud Black pinch hit for him with newly-acquired Hairston
with two outs in the top of the 7th. Greg had only thrown 75 pitches at that
point, and was pitching great (he had that
bouncing-ground-ball-up-the-middle working to perfection after the 1st).
BTW, I was listening to the Astros pre-game show during my drive to Minute
Maid Park, and the announcer kept saying that the game would hinge on the
home plate umpire and whether he called a Greg Maddux strike-zone or a
"fair" strike zone for both pitchers. Then he quipped, "Remember how Maddux
used to get those huge strike zones while other pitchers didn't?" I had to
chuckle at the absurdity of that comment. Here we are many years later, and
it sounds like the announcer's psyche still hasn't recovered from all of the
post-season quick-exit-beatings the Braves administered to the Astros over
the years during Atlanta's record-breaking run. That, and conspiracy
theorists are rarely concerned with the facts.
Anyway, it's great to hear from you again, Jessica.
Take care.
--
Jolly Rogers
Jolly Rogers
>> when you make an ass of yourself.
>
>
> This Troll (and that's what he is) came in here trying to slime the good
> names of two native San Diegans (the Giles boys) with false charges.
> He also personally insulted our colleague Barb.
>
> In my world, you defend your friends.
>
> By chirping at me now, you guarantee that troll boy will continue
> this assault. Getting the Regs in a group to start fighting with
> each other is what these losers LIVE for.
Hoover, it was just a poor choice of words on Marty's part. He honestly
meant no harm, guy.
He's a born-again Christian with a life and a family. He's really not one to
stir up trouble. I've known him for years.
Come on, let's get back to baseball! We're in the home stretch of a pennant
chase everybody!
--
Jolly Rogers
--Go Padres!
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
K2
> "jessica" <jro...@kino.com> wrote:
>
>> First greetings Padre fans from another member of the Maddux obsessed
>> club ( No Jolly I did not drop of the face of the earth). As a die
>> hard Cub fan FIRST I have taken a LOT of grief lately for my sudden
>> admiration for the Padres ( Much as I love Maddux I had few kind
>> thoughts for the Dodgers last year).
>
> Hi Jessica! How have you been?
>
> I have to be honest, I was so happy when the Cubs sent him to LA, and I am
> even happier now that Greg is pitching in pitcher-friendly Petco now. The
> Padres are a great team, and Maddux seems to be fitting in extremely well.
He's fitting in very well indeed!
Both Peavy and Young speak often of his influence on them, and he's clearly
a very positive leader in the clubhouse.
The fans love him too because they know he will always give 110% on the
field.
>> Like Jolly I find it funny that anyone would think Marty was attacking
>> Maddux or the Padres.
>
> Well, this whole thread is just very unfortunate. I've read many of
> Hoover's and Barb's posts this season, and I enjoy their reading their
> comments. They seem like very reasonable people, dedicated Padres' fans,
> and good people. Likewise, I have read and enjoyed Marty's posts for years
> and I think he's a good person. I know for a fact that he is not a troll,
> but due to a misunderstanding and perhaps a poor choice of words, he is
> perceived as a troll by some in this NG. As a consequence, things have
> turned nasty and personal. It's just very unfortunate.
I agree with your assessment here.
If his inquiry had been framed differently, this whole pissing contest
probably would have been avoided. I hope everyone involved will be willing
to take a step back and give each other a second chance to make a "first
impression" and the benefit of the doubt.
>> Good luck with your season ( unless you face the Cubs of course) and
>> marvel at your great fortune in having Maddux.
>
> Get with the program, Jessica! Maddux and the Padres, babe! ;-)
>
> BTW, I was fortunate enough to attend Maddux' start against Houston back
> in July! That was the first baseball game I attended since I purchased
> tickets to see him last year in Houston (but... he had to start a day
> early, in St. Louis last year, due to an injury on the Cubs' staff).
>
> Anyway, Greg had a rough first inning against Houston (3 ERs) during the
> game I attended, but he settled down quickly thereafter (he ultimately met
> the definition of a quality start).
>
> It was the first time I was fortunate enough to see him pitch live since
> 2001. I'd be a liar if I didn't confess to being a little choked up when
> he took the field in the bottom of the 1st. So many great baseball
> memories spanning 20 years. It will be a sad day when he throws his final
> pitch.
>
> I really enjoyed seeing the ol' master at work out there (and I had a
> great seat in the club level just left of home plate). I wish the outcome
> would have been different.
>
> I was a little surprised Maddog didn't pitch the 7th inning during that
> game, but manager Bud Black pinch hit for him with newly-acquired Hairston
> with two outs in the top of the 7th. Greg had only thrown 75 pitches at
> that point, and was pitching great (he had that
> bouncing-ground-ball-up-the-middle working to perfection after the 1st).
That surprised me a little bit too, because he was cruising at the time, the
game was close (as I recall at the moment) and a 2-out rally seemed
unlikely.
> BTW, I was listening to the Astros pre-game show during my drive to Minute
> Maid Park, and the announcer kept saying that the game would hinge on the
> home plate umpire and whether he called a Greg Maddux strike-zone or a
> "fair" strike zone for both pitchers. Then he quipped, "Remember how
> Maddux used to get those huge strike zones while other pitchers didn't?" I
> had to chuckle at the absurdity of that comment. Here we are many years
> later, and it sounds like the announcer's psyche still hasn't recovered
> from all of the post-season quick-exit-beatings the Braves administered to
> the Astros over the years during Atlanta's record-breaking run. That, and
> conspiracy theorists are rarely concerned with the facts.
Heh, Heh...
I was one who often railed about the extra "respect zone" umpires were
perceived as giving him when he was with the Braves and being a "Padre
killer" (with the notable exception of one Mr. Tony Gwynn, who apparently
owned him outright)
Lucas
> and Barb's posts this season, and I enjoy their reading their comments.
> They seem like very reasonable people,
Barb? Reasonable? If she were reasonable, we wouldn't love her HALF as
much as we do!!!
Seapig
> On Fri, 07 Sep 2007 14:13:23 -0700, Seapig <sea...@altavista.com> wrote:
> > when you make an ass of yourself.
>
> This Troll (and that's what he is) came in here trying to slime the good
> names of two native San Diegans (the Giles boys) with false charges.
I've read enough of your posts to guess that you have at least a high
school education. Put it to use: re-read what he wrote, and note that
he did no such thing.
> He also personally insulted our colleague Barb.
And she deserved it, for behaving like a moron.
> In my world, you defend your friends.
In my world, you defend anyone, friend or stranger, who is the victim
of an unprovoked attack. The only person who fits that description in
this thread is the stranger, Mr. Winn.
> By chirping at me now, you guarantee that troll boy will continue
> this assault. Getting the Regs in a group to start fighting with
> each other is what these losers LIVE for.
He came here because he wanted to know what, if any, arm therapy
Maddux is using. He has given us absolutely no reason to attribute
any other motive to him. He has gone so far as to give us reasons why
it would be silly to attirbute any other motive to him. People who
know him better than we do have backed him up. Yet, you insist on
continuing to rail against some imaginary troll.
badlands420
> He's a born-again Christian with a life and a family.
I tried to be born again once, but I had a bitch of a time trying to crawl
back up my mom's vagina.
badlands420
> I agree almost completely with what you have to say here. Except that
> the bullpen had a run where they let Maddux down pretty regularly and
> in spite of Petco Maddux had a bad run at the beginning of July where
> he gave up 15 ER in 15.1 IP in 3 starts. This recent success is an
> improvement over anything that happened earlier in this season.
I haven't discerned any difference in Maddux's velocity from the start of
the year until now, and I sit pretty close ot the plate. The thing I've
really noticed lately is that he is PAINTING with that backdoor slider,
better than I've seen him do in may years. When he's got that pitch working,
it changes everything in terms of his ability to pitch to contact and get
quick outs, which is crucial at this stage in his career as he usually
starts to fade pretty badly around the 80-pitch mark.
Winn
Again thank you, you give me reason to hope that future visits will
be worth it.
tom dunne
post about Ankiel in the Cards group yesterday?
Hoover
> Again thank you, you give me reason to hope that future visits will
>be worth it.
Congratulations, Seapig. You have made Troll Boy's day.
Hoover
Hoover
>Hey, Hoover - are you the guy who wrote the "CHEATER!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
>post about Ankiel in the Cards group yesterday?
No.
I don't do all-caps posts.
Big Al
There is a New England Patriots fan that goes by the handle Hoover
that trolls pretty regularly.
Seapig
You're welcome. I don't like playing the scold, but this group
doesn't have much of a future if we treat newcomers the way you've
been treated. Plus, I didn't want you leaving here under the
impression that nobody here knows how to read.
Barb =^..^=
have one way or another.
I do take umbrage at the use of born-again Christian when one wants to
make an example of one`s sense of purpose, kindness and truthfulness.
So if one isn`t a born-again Christian? What if they`re born - again
Islamic? or Jew or Catholic or Mormon? etc? would you say that when
speaking about their spotless purity in thought and deed?
I don`t believe I`ve sinned enough to find God a second time around.
It stuck the first time!
It`s a shame that every year (In this group) I need to be put down ,
insulted, embarrassed and all because I joke and really DON`T think I`m
an expert on baseball, I just love my Padres. and don`t like anyone
saying untruths in any way about them.
Thanks to those who do come to my defense, but, you don`t honestly
believe I`ve lived all these years and DON`T know how to be a completely
unpleasant Jerk like some others in here do you?
I just conserve my energy for truly important matters, My friends.
Go PADRES, please make it to the play-offs!
The Curmudgeon
Barb =^..^=
Jolly Rogers
>I don`t joke about anyone`s religious beliefs, it`s something we all
> have one way or another.
Is this a reference to my comment about Marty? If so, I wasn't joking.
> I do take umbrage at the use of born-again Christian when one wants to
> make an example of one`s sense of purpose, kindness and truthfulness.
No offense was intended. I was merely using it to define Marty a little
better for the group.
> So if one isn`t a born-again Christian? What if they`re born - again
> Islamic? or Jew or Catholic or Mormon? etc? would you say that when
> speaking about their spotless purity in thought and deed?
I'm technically agnostic, although functionally, I'm an atheist. I was not
trying to portray Christians as having "spotless purity in thought and
deed." I was attempting to characterize one person as generally good
natured.
> I don`t believe I`ve sinned enough to find God a second time around.
> It stuck the first time!
Thanks for sharing. I personally believe that all deities are a human
fabrication and that religions serve as a crutch for weak-minded people, be
they Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, etc. I see religion as a colossal
money-making sham. Yet, I respect the fact that others have a different
view.
> It`s a shame that every year (In this group) I need to be put down ,
> insulted, embarrassed and all because I joke and really DON`T think I`m
> an expert on baseball, I just love my Padres. and don`t like anyone
> saying untruths in any way about them.
Who put you down, or insulted you or embarrased you?
> Thanks to those who do come to my defense, but, you don`t honestly
> believe I`ve lived all these years and DON`T know how to be a completely
> unpleasant Jerk like some others in here do you?
> I just conserve my energy for truly important matters, My friends.
> Go PADRES, please make it to the play-offs!
I agree! Go Padres!
> The Curmudgeon
Cheer up! The Padres and Maddux are winning on the road! :-)
--
Jolly Rogers
Swillabrew
The guy posted in this ng with an opening line that accused, or at least
insinuated, that the Giles bros used steroids. Everything after that was
fairly benign, but that's a pretty crappy way to introduce yourself to a new
crowd.
He then berated Hoov & Barb for misreading his intentions, although unless
they're mind readers I don't see how they could have taken his first
comments any other way.
He was offered a second chance to just let it go & move forward, but he
chose to continue defending his first, indenfensible post rather than just
saying that he should have been clearer.
Personally, I don't care if he's a Jesus Freak, gay, homophobic or from
Mars, but if he comes in here with that opening line, he's gonna get what he
got. I notice he didn't respond to my tongue in cheek comment about Bobby
Cox, so maybe he needs to work on his sense of humor too.
You're right about tonight's game being a win. Bong! Bong! Bong! ( I know
they're in CO, but I hear that sound every time Hoffy comes in anyway) : )
Go Pads !
Winn
> "Jolly Rogers" <jollyrog...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:1189302...@sp12lax.superfeed.net...
> > "Barb =^..^=" <Barb...@webtv.net> wrote:
<snip>
> The guy posted in this ng with an opening line that accused, or at least
> insinuated, that the Giles bros used steroids. Everything after that was
> fairly benign, but that's a pretty crappy way to introduce yourself to a new
> crowd.
>
> He then berated Hoov & Barb for misreading his intentions, although unless
> they're mind readers I don't see how they could have taken his first
> comments any other way.
>
> He was offered a second chance to just let it go & move forward, but he
> chose to continue defending his first, indenfensible post rather than just
> saying that he should have been clearer.
>
> Personally, I don't care if he's a Jesus Freak, gay, homophobic or from
> Mars, but if he comes in here with that opening line, he's gonna get what he
> got. I notice he didn't respond to my tongue in cheek comment about Bobby
> Cox, so maybe he needs to work on his sense of humor too.
<snip>
I did not find the Cox mention particularly clever. It is old and
trite. Further I have no dog in the fight. If he beat his wife it is
deplorable. As to whether it actually happened I'm agnostic.
It's surely a weakness on my part but I care about how I'm thought of
here because I would like to be able to come back. As such I would
like you all to believe that I meant no ill towards Maddux, the
Giles', or the members of this group. I've presented evedence of why
you should believe me in this matter. Many of you do not. I could
just drop it but again I am not interested in you thinking I'm a
troll. If I admit to that I basically get no hearing in this group.
You all have not just "let it go" this either. As to "berating"
Hoover and Barb restrained myself and gave much less than I got.
Seriously compare. I've been called a troll, a slimer, told to FO,
stick it, and told to go away" I called someone vain, that they
lacked reading comprehension skills, were unhospitable, and their
intellect was staggering. Most of these after much abuse had already
been heaped upon me.
As for how I introduced myself to the group let me quote myself "This
was probably joking but I want to know if you have heard anything.
Within this discussion:<link> There was talk of steriods for the Giles
brothers" Lets parse this. So I said that someone on another site
was talking about the Giles' doing steriods, but they were probably
joking. Did I accuse anyone of anything? No. I paraphrased someone
elses words. These weren't my words. Twice I even said that they
were probably joking. Doesn't seem that hard to comprehend.
I have previously admitted that if I had clearly stated my question
"Is Maddux getting arm therapy - do you know any details of the
therapy?" it would have been harder to misunderstand. My post was
not indefensible. Here I am defending it. Further several of the
members have bought into my defense.
You say, "he needs to work on his sense of humor too." Honestly do
you think I can afford to have a sense of humor around here" Do you
think I'm inclined to believe that you would get any of my jokes? I
seriously contemplated posting that it looked like the steriods were
kicking in tonight for Greg? How would that have gone over? Pretty
funny huh?
Hoover
This troll is 2,500 miles away from San Diego. He lives in Virginia.
He has no life, and is a Drama Queen of the first order. He is to
be pitied.
Seapig
> On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 04:26:35 -0000, Winn <marty.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This troll is 2,500 miles away from San Diego. He lives in Virginia.
He lives in VIRGINIA? My God, why didn't you say something sooner?
That changes everything! I can't believe I defended the guy.
If you'd been the prosecutor back in the day, Perry Mason wouldn't
have had a chance.
Big Al
wrote:
Let me try to recap this thread.
First some guy comes in like a regular Dr. Mengele and mutters
something about steroids, Giles and Maddux, not necessarily in that
order. Hoover gets offended and turn loose a Panzer division on his
ass. Then both sides get Joseph Gobbels and try to spin their own
propaganda. Meanwhile, this thread takes on a like like a 1,000 Year
Reicht. Does Hitler still manage the Braves or did he get fired?
Jolly Rogers
> Let me try to recap this thread.
>
> First some guy comes in like a regular Dr. Mengele and mutters
> something about steroids, Giles and Maddux, not necessarily in that
> order. Hoover gets offended and turn loose a Panzer division on his
> ass. Then both sides get Joseph Gobbels and try to spin their own
> propaganda. Meanwhile, this thread takes on a like like a 1,000 Year
> Reicht. Does Hitler still manage the Braves or did he get fired?
You forgot to including the closing chapter.
Please, allow me:
Next, a history revisionist comes along and attempts to hornswoggle folks
into believing that a holocaust occurred.
Heh.
Winn
> On Sun, 09 Sep 2007 04:26:35 -0000, Winn <marty.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This troll is 2,500 miles away from San Diego. He lives in Virginia.
Hey, good to see one of you finally got around to doing some research
on this issue before expelling an opinion/response.
badlands420
> into believing that a holocaust occurred.
Who are you calling a revisionist, sugar tits?
Sincerely,
Mel Gibson