Re: Should Raffy be tested now?
David M. Nieporent
> I read that Raffy will be playing with the Orioles after his 10 day
> suspension. Should he - and others - be tested after their
> suspensions to make sure that they are clean before they are allowed to
> play again?
No. They will be tested again in the future, but testing "before" they are
allowed to play doesn't make any sense, because steroids can stay in ones
system for months. Whatever use caused him to test positive before would
trigger a positive result again.
--
David Marc Nieporent niep...@alumni.princeton.edu
Jumping To Conclusions: http://www.oobleck.com/tollbooth
Ruben Safir
>
> No. They will be tested again in the future, but testing "before" they are
> allowed to play doesn't make any sense, because steroids can stay in ones
> system for months. Whatever use caused him to test positive before would
> trigger a positive result again.
OK
Let him stay out until he tests positive
Ruben
Kiddon
that's the price you pay.
kiddon
Kenny1111
No, the price you pay is a 10 game (day?) suspension. That's the agreed
upon penalty in the CBA.
David M. Nieporent
> Let him stay out until he tests negative. If that takes months, well,
> that's the price you pay.
No; the price he pays is a ten day suspension. That's what was agreed to.
Ruben Safir
> Kiddon wrote:
>
>> Let him stay out until he tests negative. If that takes months, well,
>> that's the price you pay.
>
> No; the price he pays is a ten day suspension. That's what was agreed to.
Yeah, but I don't care about what they agreed to. The State of Maryland
should have him arrested for trafficing in a controlled substance and let
him sit in jail for a few years.
Ruben
notraybradley
>>Yeah, but I don't care about what they agreed to. The State of Maryland
should have him arrested for trafficing in a controlled substance and
let
him sit in jail for a few years. >>
Riiiight. Maryland will become so much safer once that notorious drug
lord Palmeiro is off the streets. Little black kids and little white
kids won't get into turf fights once Raffy "Tony Montana" Palmeiro is
behind bars. Jesus.
You know, honestly, the way this board has lit up since Palmeiro was
suspended has really pissed me off. The vitrol being spewed at a guy
for testing positive for a banned substance is stunning. We have a
community in Ohio mourning over the loss of their sons in Iraq, either
a White House advisor or a former CNN journalist who might have outed a
CIA operative, and all these folks want to talk about is whether a 40
year old guy should be banned from the Hall of Fame for using steroids.
Steroids were NOT illegal in baseball until recently. They have been
around in various forms since the 1930s, and have been used commonly to
increase athletic performance since the 1950s. There's a very good
chance that some of the baseball heros of the `50s and `60s were just
as drugged out as an East German weightlifter. Even if Palmeiro was
taking steroids during the course of his entire 20 year career, he
wasn't doing ANYTHING illegal as far as baseball is concerned until
this year's test. Ex post facto, perhaps?
He made a mistake; he's paying for it. If he did in fact lie in front
of Congress, he'll pay for that, too. Personally, I don't think they
should bother investigating baseball until they can figure out what
when on with Valerie Plame, but, since when have politicians ever put
values in front of a good story?
If lying in front of Congress is all you new posters are mad about,
where were you on the Clinton impeachment? How about those WMDs? Or, is
baseball more important to you than a war?
- Ray Bradley
Ruben Safir
> Riiiight. Maryland will become so much safer once that notorious drug
> lord Palmeiro is off the streets. Little black kids and little white
> kids won't get into turf fights once Raffy "Tony Montana" Palmeiro is
> behind bars. Jesus.
Your personal views aside, the use and trafficing in a controlled
substance is a felony, even in Maryland. Lets not pretend that this is
not a criminal matter. And BTW, there is good reason why these drugs are
illegal and CII controlled narcotics under the law.
Ruben
Ruben Safir
> Even if Palmeiro was
> taking steroids during the course of his entire 20 year career, he
> wasn't doing ANYTHING illegal as far as baseball is concerned until
> this year's test. Ex post facto, perhaps?
What are you saying? Your saying that Baseball is in an alternate
universe and doesn't need to conform to the law like the rest of the world.
If ballplayers want to rape groupies, Hey - its not "illegal" in baseball.
This is a bullshit argument.
Ruben
Joe F.
(keeping in mind that the DEA & AMA reportedly disagreed with congress
that these substances should be Scheduled)??
Joe F.
freely gives sex to individuals based upon the individuals status as
rock star or athlete?
Kiddon
the CBA is not strong enough on steroid use.
kiddon
Ruben Safir
Because they're dangerous, and addicting as substaneated in previous
quoted works, including repeated artciled accross the entire spectrum of
medical journals. So who give a fuck what you think AMA may have once
said. The medical evidence stands on its own.
But by all means, good look having them removed from CII status!
Ruben
Kiddon
the horrible effect use of steroids can have on kids trying to pump
themselves up to be like their sports heroes, including Palmeiro. It
is clearly a health, safety and welfare issue within Congress' proper
domain.
kiddon
Joe F.
entire spectrum of medical journals"? And I assume you know that the
AMA stands for the American Medical Association, an organization who
polices the standards of all medical journal research papers submitted
in this country?
mrbrklyn
Ruben
mrbrklyn
The AMA has little to do with policing peer review articles on medicine
(thank god). There membrship, has been busted repeatedly for taking
bribes and kickbacks for misrepresenting data and in ordering practices
or drug. But they are not the healthcare publishering police.
Ruben
Kiddon
congress
that these substances should be Scheduled?"
kiddon
mrbrklyn
*
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Kiddon
See, http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/13782.html.
"The U.S. Senate on Oct. 6 passed legislation to ban over-the-counter
sales of dietary supplements containing anabolic steroids, drawing
praise from the AMA.
The Anabolic Steroid Control Act (S. 2195) is an important step toward
a nationwide ban, but must first be reconciled with the House version
(H.R. 3866) before it can be signed into law.
"Increasing numbers of Americans, particularly young athletes, are
placing themselves at risk for serious health problems from the use of
anabolic steroids, particularly through use of over-the-counter dietary
supplements," said AMA Trustee Ronald M. Davis, MD. "These health risks
have irreversible, toxic effects - including death."
Provisions of S. 2195 include adding 18 substances to the list of
banned anabolic steroids, providing $15 million toward educating
children about the dangers of steroids and increasing criminal
penalties for those caught selling the supplements.
"Physicians, parents, educators and legislators must do everything in
their power to stem the tide of anabolic steroid use," Dr. Davis
continued. "Education and legislation are needed to stop this abuse and
protect our high school students, and others, from the dangers of
anabolic steroids."
mrbrklyn
A) NEOPLASM
* 1) Fatal hepatomas, adenocarcinoma of the prostate and sigmoid
colon, Wilms tumour, hepatic angiosarcoma, and acute myeloid leukemia
have been reported in patients and athletes taking anabolic steroids.
Linkage between malignancies and abuse of anabolic steroids has not
been clearly established (Overly et al, 1984; Graham & Kennedy, 1990).
David M. Nieporent
> On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 11:19:13 -0700, notraybradley wrote:
>>Riiiight. Maryland will become so much safer once that notorious drug
>>lord Palmeiro is off the streets. Little black kids and little white
>>kids won't get into turf fights once Raffy "Tony Montana" Palmeiro is
>>behind bars. Jesus.
> Your personal views aside, the use and trafficing in a controlled
> substance is a felony, even in Maryland. Lets not pretend that this is
> not a criminal matter.
Great. So all Maryland would have to do is prove that Palmeiro used or
trafficked in a controlled substance. In the state of Maryland. Good luck
with that one.
> And BTW, there is good reason why these drugs are
> illegal and CII controlled narcotics under the law.
Yeah -- otherwise federal bureaucrats might have to get real jobs instead of
leeching off taxpayers.
David M. Nieporent
It's unusual on usenet for someone asked to provide evidence to actually do
so. It's even more unusual that when asked to provide evidence, someone
provides evidence... that actually contradicts their claim.
Please read the last sentence of your citation.
Ruben Safir
> It's unusual on usenet for someone asked to provide evidence to actually do
> so. It's even more unusual that when asked to provide evidence, someone
> provides evidence... that actually contradicts their claim.
>
> Please read the last sentence of your citation.
Read the entire original article. The carcenogenic effects of steroids is
very established, and not all original works show a corellation. That's
why assays really suck and one much read the whole article, which includes
the context and raw data.
Ruben
David M. Nieporent
> On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 11:19:13 -0700, notraybradley wrote:
>> Even if Palmeiro was
>>taking steroids during the course of his entire 20 year career, he
>>wasn't doing ANYTHING illegal as far as baseball is concerned until
>>this year's test. Ex post facto, perhaps?
> What are you saying? Your saying that Baseball is in an alternate
> universe and doesn't need to conform to the law like the rest of the world.
No. He's saying that baseball -- like the rest of the world -- doesn't need
to enforce the law. When the legislature passes moronic laws, police are
obligated to enforce those laws and courts are obligated to adjudicate cases
of those accused of breaking those laws. Private citizens and entities such
as MLB are not obligated to punish people accused of violating those laws.
> If ballplayers want to rape groupies, Hey - its not "illegal" in baseball.
Correct.
> This is a bullshit argument.
Your failure to understand an argument does not make it "bullshit."
An employer is not required to fire or discipline employees that break the
law. Employers have a set of rules which may or may not be coterminous with
the legal code. If you violate those rules, you are disciplined by your
employer. It works the other way, as well: employers are entitled to
discipline you for breaking a rule even if the behavior is permitted under
the law. No law requires you to wear a suit to work, but an employer is
free to fire you for not doing so.
mrbrklyn
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mrbrklyn
No
Baseball can be an accomplice to a felony
Ruben
Seth Jackson
wrote:
>You know, honestly, the way this board has lit up since Palmeiro was
>suspended has really pissed me off. The vitrol being spewed at a guy
>for testing positive for a banned substance is stunning. We have a
>community in Ohio mourning over the loss of their sons in Iraq, either
>a White House advisor or a former CNN journalist who might have outed a
>CIA operative, and all these folks want to talk about is whether a 40
>year old guy should be banned from the Hall of Fame for using steroids.
Well, you know, this just happens to be a *baseball* newsgroup. So,
it shouldn't be all that surprising when people get all involved about
baseball-related topics. Honestly, it seems pretty bizarre that
someone would get pissed off about baseball fans discussing baseball
in a baseball discussion group.
David the Nationals Fan
That's a pretty big oversimplification of the facts. Firstly, is
there any evidence of any kind whatsoever that Palmiero was doing
anything more than using the Steriod? Is there any evidence as to the
amount that he had in his possession? Is any quantity of the product
considered to only be a misdemeanor?
In Maryland, for example, possesson and use is only a misdemeanor.
(One with a pretty hefty amount of jail time (up to one year and a
thousand dollars... but still just a misdemeanor. Sale and
cultivation are, of course, a different story. And of course we do not
know which jurisdiction the Steroids were used in. He could have
legally used them outside the United States and had the impact of them
shown up in the US. That would not be an "illegal" use of Steroids,
merely one in violation of the rules of baseball.
mrbrklyn
make Candem Yards a crime scene, and do a thorough criminal
investigation of the matter. In fact, with the probable use of
Steroids by Sosa, they'd need to close the ballpark until the
investigation is completed and a Grand Jury can here the evidence.
Certainly the players locker room would need to be searched and all the
trainign facilities.
Since this crime has also occured over state lines, it is likely that
the FBI might need to get involved as well.
If congress and the government is serious about shutting down the
steroid ring in baseball, it won't really take much. A few serious
prosecutions and investigations which affect the balence sheet on the
owners will speed things up real fast.
Ruben
Kiddon
Before arguing again that the AMA agrees with you, please read this:
See, http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/13782.html.
kiddon
David M. Nieporent
Not for anything we're talking about here. Failure to punish someone for
breaking the law does not create accomplice liability.
David M. Nieporent
What provision of the United States Constitution gives Congress authority to
deal with health issues?
What provision of the United States Constitution gives Congress authority to
deal with bad parenting?
Nick D.
"David M. Nieporent" <niep...@alumni.princeton.edu> wrote in message
news:42F7CECC...@alumni.princeton.edu...
> Kiddon wrote:
>
> > Congress is involved in the steroid issue, in large part, because of
> > the horrible effect use of steroids can have on kids trying to pump
> > themselves up to be like their sports heroes, including Palmeiro. It
> > is clearly a health, safety and welfare issue within Congress' proper
> > domain.
>
> What provision of the United States Constitution gives Congress authority
to
> deal with health issues?
The preamble. "promote the general welfare"
>
> What provision of the United States Constitution gives Congress authority
to
> deal with bad parenting?
Preamble, "insure domestic tranquility"
mrbrklyn
authority to
deal with health issues?
What provision of the United States Constitution gives Congress
authority to
deal with bad parenting? >>
Yeah .... OK
Moving on to the real world....
Beach Runner
Then why don't you object ot alcohol or tobacco?
Or junk food.
Ruben Safir
>
> Then why don't you object ot alcohol or tobacco?
> Or junk food.
Why? Is there anabolic steroids in Big Macs?
Ruben
Ruben Safir
> Failure to punish someone for
> breaking the law does not create accomplice liability.
But turning a blind eye in the club house just might ...
Ruben Safir
> Well, you know, this just happens to be a *baseball* newsgroup. So,
> it shouldn't be all that surprising when people get all involved about
> baseball-related topics. Honestly, it seems pretty bizarre that
> someone would get pissed off about baseball fans discussing baseball
> in a baseball discussion group.
This is a great post. I'm going to bookmark it.
Ruben
Seth Jackson
Thank you.
Dan Rowan
news:pan.2005.08.08....@flatbush.mrbrklyn.com:
> On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 11:19:13 -0700, notraybradley wrote:
>
>> Even if Palmeiro was
>> taking steroids during the course of his entire 20 year career, he
>> wasn't doing ANYTHING illegal as far as baseball is concerned until
>> this year's test. Ex post facto, perhaps?
>
>
> What are you saying? Your saying that Baseball is in an alternate
> universe and doesn't need to conform to the law like the rest of the
> world.
>
> If ballplayers want to rape groupies, Hey - its not "illegal" in
> baseball.
>
> This is a bullshit argument.
>
> Ruben
>
Do you know which substance Palmiero tested positive for, and if so, is
it merely a substance banned by MLB or one which is actually illegal?
Also, steroids are not narcotics. Look it up. They are in two distinctly
different classes of drugs.
Dan Rowan
There could be bovine growth hormone in the beef, which is a steroid. :)
mrbrklyn
to be injected, and I sort of stopped listening.
I guess it is possible he could be using a designer steroid, but I
doubt it.
Ruben
Dan Rowan
@tornado.tampabay.rr.com:
>
> Then why don't you object ot alcohol or tobacco?
> Or junk food.
>
Grow up!
Dan Rowan
@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
Sir, you are in dire need of medicine.
Ruben Safir and mrbrklyn, you are hereby unceremoniousloy plonked.
Doncha just love that flushing sound?
David Marc Nieporent
"Kiddon" <tampac...@aol.com> wrote:
>David:
>
>Before arguing again that the AMA agrees with you, please read this:
I didn't. Check your attributions.
That having been said, your citation is about what happened in 2004. In
1990, when Congress first scheduled steroids under the CSA, the AMA opposed
it.
---------------------------------------------
David M. Nieporent niep...@alumni.princeton.edu
David Marc Nieporent
"mrbrklyn" <spam-...@nylxs.com> wrote:
>Here is a sampling of works just on the toxicology of Testosterone
It's true, you know. Billions of human men over the centuries have been
afflicted with testosterone, and so far, all of them have died.
David Marc Nieporent
mrbrklyn
Chromium. Potassium and Iron. Lets inject about 50MEQ of KCl in 100ML
of NS IVF and see what it does to you?
Ruben
Erasmus "The Mannequin" Brown
"notraybradley" <tele...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123525153.9...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Ruben wrote:
> >>Yeah, but I don't care about what they agreed to. The State of Maryland
> should have him arrested for trafficing in a controlled substance and
> let
> him sit in jail for a few years. >>
>
> Riiiight. Maryland will become so much safer once that notorious drug
> lord Palmeiro is off the streets. Little black kids and little white
> kids won't get into turf fights once Raffy "Tony Montana" Palmeiro is
> behind bars. Jesus.
>
"Say Hello...to my LITTLE FRIEND!" - Rafael "Scarface" Palmeiro
Erasmus "The Mannequin" Brown
"Ruben Safir" <ru...@flatbush.mrbrklyn.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.08.09....@flatbush.mrbrklyn.com...
Erasmus "The Mannequin" Brown
"Ruben Safir" <ru...@flatbush.mrbrklyn.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.08.09....@flatbush.mrbrklyn.com...
I wouldn't be surprised.
Joe F.
David:
"Before arguing again that the AMA agrees with you, please read this:
See, http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/13782.html.
"The U.S. Senate on Oct. 6 passed legislation to ban over-the-counter
sales of dietary supplements containing anabolic steroids, drawing
praise from the AMA.
The Anabolic Steroid Control Act (S. 2195) is an important step toward
a nationwide ban, but must first be reconciled with the House version
(H.R. 3866) before it can be signed into law.
"Increasing numbers of Americans, particularly young athletes, are
placing themselves at risk for serious health problems from the use of
anabolic steroids, particularly through use of over-the-counter dietary
supplements," said AMA Trustee Ronald M. Davis, MD. "These health risks
have irreversible, toxic effects - including death." "
I am assuming you understand the difference between "over the counter"
and prescription medications, and the difference between a prescription
medication and a "controlled substance". As I said before and as David
pointed out, the AMA was not in favor of "scheduling steroids as
controlled substances" back in 1990. Of course they would be in favor
of banning the OTC sale of ANY substance that should only be available
by prescription, controlled substance or not, as they should be.
Joe F.
"Do you know which substance Palmiero tested positive for, and if so,
is
it merely a substance banned by MLB or one which is actually illegal?
Also, steroids are not narcotics. Look it up. They are in two
distinctly
different classes of drugs."
stanozolol, though the person who provided the newspapers with this
info asked to remain anonymous.
Yes, this is a banned substance under the MLB steroid policy and no, it
is not illegal if you have a prescription.
Kiddon
Raffi must not have had a prescription, because he said that he did not
knowingly take it.
kiddon
sli...@slidge.com
> afflicted with testosterone, and so far, all of them have died.
It's almost as lethal as dihydrogen oxide.
Lance Freezeland
gave us:
>Ruben wrote:
>>>Yeah, but I don't care about what they agreed to. The State of Maryland
>should have him arrested for trafficing in a controlled substance and
>let
>him sit in jail for a few years. >>
>Riiiight. Maryland will become so much safer once that notorious drug
>lord Palmeiro is off the streets. Little black kids and little white
>kids won't get into turf fights once Raffy "Tony Montana" Palmeiro is
>behind bars. Jesus.
>You know, honestly, the way this board has lit up since Palmeiro was
>suspended has really pissed me off. The vitrol being spewed at a guy
>for testing positive for a banned substance is stunning. We have a
>community in Ohio mourning over the loss of their sons in Iraq, either
>a White House advisor or a former CNN journalist who might have outed a
>CIA operative, and all these folks want to talk about is whether a 40
>year old guy should be banned from the Hall of Fame for using steroids.
>
>Steroids were NOT illegal in baseball until recently. They have been
>around in various forms since the 1930s, and have been used commonly to
>increase athletic performance since the 1950s. There's a very good
>chance that some of the baseball heros of the `50s and `60s were just
>as drugged out as an East German weightlifter. Even if Palmeiro was
>taking steroids during the course of his entire 20 year career, he
>wasn't doing ANYTHING illegal as far as baseball is concerned until
>this year's test. Ex post facto, perhaps?
>
>He made a mistake; he's paying for it. If he did in fact lie in front
>of Congress, he'll pay for that, too. Personally, I don't think they
>should bother investigating baseball until they can figure out what
>when on with Valerie Plame, but, since when have politicians ever put
>values in front of a good story?
>
>If lying in front of Congress is all you new posters are mad about,
>where were you on the Clinton impeachment? How about those WMDs? Or, is
>baseball more important to you than a war?
Wow, Ray, there are so many red herrings in there, I hardly know where
to begin. Baseball fans want to talk, and argue, about baseball.
That doesn't mean that we can't talk politics too, but your complaints
here sound silly. Next, you'll be arguing that kindergarten teachers
should be paid the same as left fielders because of the value of the
service they provide to the community.
--
Lance
"I believe in the Church of Baseball" Annie Savoy
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
smack
"Kiddon" <tampac...@aol.com> wrote:
> Congress is involved in the steroid issue, in large part, because of
> the horrible effect use of steroids can have on kids trying to pump
> themselves up to be like their sports heroes, including Palmeiro. It
> is clearly a health, safety and welfare issue within Congress' proper
> domain.
Congress has a lot of nerve grandstanding about steroids when they
didn't get around to banning ephedrine - a *truly* harmful supplement -
until *after* MLB did. Though, still, no one champions this cause. I
guess it's just not as stylish as the steroids issue.
--
Stephen Mack
"Nobody's smart enough to be wrong all the time." -Ken Wilber
Dan Szymborski
@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, tampac...@aol.com says...
> Congress is involved in the steroid issue, in large part, because of
> the horrible effect use of steroids can have on kids trying to pump
> themselves up to be like their sports heroes, including Palmeiro. It
> is clearly a health, safety and welfare issue within Congress' proper
> domain.
And that domain is law enforcement. If athletes are using
drugs, then the police are perfectly free to get warrants on
probable cause and all that goodness if they want to.
--
Dan Szymborski
d...@REMOVEbaseballprimer.com
"A critic who refuses to attack what is bad is not a
supporter of what is good."
- Robert Schumann
Jesse Spencer
> If lying in front of Congress is all you new posters are mad about,
> where were you on the Clinton impeachment? How about those WMDs? Or, is
> baseball more important to you than a war?
>
Get off the politics before someone brings up the Rich pardon,
Whitewater, Hillarys miraculous investments, travelgate...etc etc.
The people you love so are self serving pigs.
Erasmus "The Mannequin" Brown
"Jesse Spencer" <jess2251...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:dQcKe.6422$EX....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Well, they spent years investigating those last three things and couldn't
prove jack shit, so you may say whatever you want.
mrbrklyn
it
is not illegal if you have a prescription. >>
That is a CII Narcotic, like morphine and cocaine.
Don't confuse yourself.
Ruben
Ruben Safir
> It's almost as lethal as dihydrogen oxide.
So that is like Rap jive for water? And your contention is that androgen
is as healthy as water to use?
I'd like to see you substantiate that.
Ruben
Ruben Safir
> Also, steroids are not narcotics. Look it up. They are in two
> distinctly
> different classes of drugs."
Not under the law.
Ruben
Jesse Spencer
> Congress is involved in the steroid issue, in large part, because of
> the horrible effect use of steroids can have on kids trying to pump
> themselves up to be like their sports heroes, including Palmeiro. It
> is clearly a health, safety and welfare issue within Congress' proper
> domain.
>
>
Good post.
sli...@slidge.com
> is as healthy as water to use?
>
> I'd like to see you substantiate that.
>
Safe?
Each year, Dihydrogen Monoxide is a known causative component in many
thousands of deaths and is a major contributor to millions upon millions
of dollars in damage to property and the environment. Some of the known
perils of Dihydrogen Monoxide are:
* Death due to accidental inhalation of DHMO, even in small quantities.
* Prolonged exposure to solid DHMO causes severe tissue damage.
* Excessive ingestion produces a number of unpleasant though not typically
* life-threatening side-effects.
* DHMO is a major component of acid rain.
* Gaseous DHMO can cause severe burns.
* Contributes to soil erosion.
* Leads to corrosion and oxidation of many metals.
* Contamination of electrical systems often causes short-circuits.
* Exposure decreases effectiveness of automobile brakes.
* Found in biopsies of pre-cancerous tumors and lesions.
* Often associated with killer cyclones in the U.S. Midwest and elsewhere.
* Thermal variations in DHMO are a suspected contributor to the El Nino
* weather effect.
Ruben Safir
> Each year, Dihydrogen Monoxide is a known causative component in many
> thousands of deaths and is a major contributor to millions upon millions
> of dollars in damage to property and the environment.
That splashing noise you hear is your id going PLOINK in the killfile
Ruben
Joe F.
Don't confuse yourself.
Ruben"
Um... no. Steroids are under Scedule III and are not narcotics (the
word "narcotic" comes from Greek & Latin words that mean "sleep" &
"numbness").
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/scheduling.html
I was not confused before, and I am still not confused.
mrbrklyn
Ruben
mrbrklyn
lished five schedules of controlled substances, to be known as
schedules
I, II, III, IV and V respectively. Such schedules shall consist of
the
following substances by whatever name or chemical designation known:
Schedule I. (a) Schedule I shall consist of the drugs and
other
substances, by whatever official name, common or usual name,
chemical
name, or brand name designated, listed in this section.
(b) Opiates. Unless specifically excepted or unless listed in
another
schedule, any of the following opiates, including their isomers,
esters,
ethers, salts, and salts of isomers, esters, and ethers, whenever
the
existence of such isomers, esters, ethers and salts is possible
within
the specific chemical designation (for purposes of
3-methylfentanyl
only, the term isomer includes the optical and geometric isomers):
(1) Acetyl-alpha-methylfentanyl(N-{1-(-methyl-2-phenethyl)-4-
piperidinyl}-N-phenylacetamide.
(2) Acetylmethadol.
(3) Allylprodine.
(4) Alphacetylmethadol (except levo- alphacetylmethadol also known
as
levo-alpha-acetylmethadol, levomethadylacetate or LAAM).
(5) Alphameprodine.
(6) Alphamethadol.
(7) Alpha-methylfentanyl (N-{1-(alphamethyl-betaphenyl)
ethyl-4-
piperidyl} propionanilide; 1-(1-methyl-2-phenylethyl)
-4-(N-
propanilido)piperidine).
(8) Alpha-methylthiofentanyl (N-{1-methyl-2)2-thienyl)
ethyl4-
piperidinyl} -N-phenylpropanamide).
(9) Beta-hydroxyfentanyl (N-{1-2 (2-hydroxy-2-phenethyl)-
4-piperidinyl} -N-phenylpropanamide).
(10) Beta-hydroxy-3-methylfentanyl (other name:
N-{1-(2-hydroxy-2-
phenethyl)-3-methyl-4-piperidinyl} -N-phenylpropanamide.
(11) Benzethidine.
(12) Betacetylmethadol.
(13) Betameprodine.
(14) Betamethadol.
(15) Betaprodine.
(16) Clonitazene.
(17) Dextromoramide.
(18) Diampromide.
(19) Diethylthiambutene.
(20) Difenoxin.
(21) Dimenoxadol.
(22) Dimepheptanol.
(23) Dimethylthiambutene.
(24) Dioxaphetyl butyrate.
(25) Dipipanone.
(26) Ethylmethylthiambutene.
(27) Etonitazene.
(28) Etoxeridine.
(29) Furethidine.
(30) Hydroxypethidine.
(31) Ketobemidone.
(32) Levomoramide.
(33) Levophenacylmorphan.
(34) 3-Methylfentanyl (N-{3-methy1-1- (2- phenylethyl
-4-piperidyl}
-N-phenylpropanamide).
(35) 3-Methylthiofentanyl (N-{3-methyl-1-
(2-thienyl)ethyl
-4-piperidinyl} -N-phenylpropanamide).
(36) Morpheridine.
(37) MPPP (1-methyl -4-phenyl -4-propionoxypiperidine).
(38) Noracymethadol.
(39) Norlevorphanol.
(40) Normethadone.
(41) Norpipanone.
(42) Para-fluorofentanyl (N- (4-fluorophenyl) -N-{1-
(2-phenethyl)
-4-piperidinyl} -propanamide.
(43) PEPAP (1- (-2-phenethyl) -4-phenyl -4-acetoxypiperidine.
(44) Phenadoxone.
(45) Phenampromide.
(46) Phenomorphan.
(47) Phenoperidine.
(48) Piritramide.
(49) Proheptazine.
(50) Properidine.
(51) Propiram.
(52) Racemoramide.
(53) Thiofentanyl (N-phenyl-N-{1- (2-thienyl) ethyl -4-
piperidinyl}
-propanamide.
(54) Tilidine.
(55) Trimeperidine.
(c) Opium derivatives. Unless specifically excepted or unless
listed
in another schedule, any of the following opium derivatives, its
salts,
isomers, and salts of isomers whenever the existence of such
salts,
isomers, and salts of isomers is possible within the specific
chemical
designation:
(1) Acetorphine.
(2) Acetyldihydrocodeine.
(3) Benzylmorphine.
(4) Codeine methylbromide.
(5) Codeine-N-oxide.
(6) Cyprenorphine.
(7) Desomorphine.
(8) Dihydromorphine.
(9) Drotebanol.
(10) Etorphine (except hydrochloride salt).
(11) Heroin.
(12) Hydromorphinol.
(13) Methyldesorphine.
(14) Methyldihydromorphine.
(15) Morphine methylbromide.
(16) Morphine methylsulfonate.
(17) Morphine-N-oxide.
(18) Myrophine.
(19) Nicocodeine.
(20) Nicomorphine.
(21) Normorphine.
(22) Pholcodine.
(23) Thebacon.
(d) Hallucinogenic substances. Unless specifically excepted or
unless
listed in another schedule, any material, compound, mixture, or
prepara-
tion, which contains any quantity of the following
hallucinogenic
substances, or which contains any of its salts, isomers, and salts
of
isomers whenever the existence of such salts, isomers, and salts
of
isomers is possible within the specific chemical designation
(for
purposes of this paragraph only, the term "isomer" includes the
optical,
position and geometric isomers):
(EXPLANATION--Within the following chemical designations,
character
symbol substitutions were made from the original text: "@" =
Greek
alpha, "&" = Greek beta, "`" = prime mark and "/ " = triangle.)
(1) 4-bromo-2, 5-dimethoxy-amphetamine Some trade or other names:
4-bromo-2, 5-dimethoxy-@-methylphenethylamine; 4-bromo-2, 5-DMA.
(2) 2, 5-dimethoxyamphetamine Some trade or other names:
2, 5-dimethoxy-@-methylphenethylamine; 2, 5-DMA.
(3) 4-methoxyamphetamine Some trade or other names:
4-methoxy-@-methylphenethylamine; paramethoxyamphetamine, PMA.
(4) 5-methoxy-3, 4-methylenedioxy - amphetamine.
(5) 4-methyl-2, 5-dimethoxy-amphetamine Some trade and other names:
4-methyl-2, 5-dimethoxy-@-methylphenethylamine; "DOM"; and "STP".
(6) 3, 4-methylenedioxy amphetamine.
(7) 3, 4, 5-trimethoxy amphetamine.
(8) Bufotenine Some trade and other names:
3-(&-dimethylaminoethyl)-5 hydroxindole; 3-(2-dimethylaminoethyl)-
5-indolol; N, N-dimethylserotonin; -5-hydroxy-N,
N-dimethyltryptamine;
mappine.
(9) Diethyltryptamine Some trade and other names:
N, N-diethyltryptamine; DET.
(10) Dimethyltryptamine Some trade or other names: DMT.
(11) Ibogane Some trade and other names: 7-ethyl-6, 6&, 7, 8, 9,
10, 12, 13-octahydro-2-methoxy-6, 9-methano-5h-pyrido {1`,2`:1,2}
azepino {5,4-b} indole: tabernanthe iboga.
(12) Lysergic acid diethylamide.
(13) Marihuana.
(14) Mescaline.
(15) Parahexyl. Some trade or other names:
3-Hexyl-1-hydroxy-7,8,9,10-tetra
hydro-6,6,9-trimethyl-6H-dibenfo{b,d}
pyran.
(16) Peyote. Meaning all parts of the plant presently
classified
botanically as Lophophora williamsii Lemaire, whether growing or
not,
the seeds thereof, any extract from any part of such plant, and
every
compound, manufacture, salts, derivative, mixture, or preparation
of
such plant, its seeds or extracts.
(17) N-ethyl-3-piperidyl benzilate.
(18) N-methyl-3-piperidyl benzilate.
(19) Psilocybin.
(20) Psilocyn.
(21) Tetrahydrocannabinols. Synthetic equivalents of the
substances
contained in the plant, or in the resinous extractives of
cannabis,
sp. and/or synthetic substances, derivatives, and their isomers
with
similar chemical structure and pharmacological activity such as
the
following:
/ 1 cis or trans tetrahydrocannabinol, and their optical isomers
/ 6 cis or trans tetrahydrocannabinol, and their optical isomers
/ 3, 4 cis or trans tetrahydrocannabinol, and its optical
isomers
(since nomenclature of these substances is not internationally
stand-
ardized, compounds of these structures, regardless of numerical
desig-
nation of atomic positions covered).
(22) Ethylamine analog of phencyclidine. Some trade or other names:
N-ethyl-1-phenylcyclohexylamine, (1-phenylcyclohexyl) ethylamine,
N-(1-phenylcyclohexyl) ethylamine cyclohexamine, PCE.
(23) Pyrrolidine analog of phencyclidine. Some trade or other names
1-(1-phenylcyclohexyl)-pyrrolidine; PCPy, PHP.
(24) Thiophene analog of phencyclidine. Some trade or other names:
1-{1-(2-thienyl)-cyclohexyl}-piperidine, 2-thienylanalog of
phencyclidine, TPCP, TCP.
(25) 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA).
(26) 3,4-methylendioxy-N-ethylamphetamine (also known as
N-ethyl-al-
pha-methyl-3,4 (methylenedioxy) phenethylamine, N-ethyl MDA, MDE, MDEA.
(27) N-hydroxy-3,4-methylenedioxyamphetamine (also known as
N-hydrox-
y-alpha-methyl-3,4 (methylenedioxy) phenethylamine, and N-hydroxy MDA.
(28) 1-{1- (2-thienyl) cyclohexyl} pyrrolidine. Some other
names:
TCPY.
(29) Alpha-ethyltryptamine. Some trade or other names:
etryptamine;
Monase; Alpha-ethyl-1H-indole-3-ethanamine; 3-(2-aminobutyl)
indole;
Alpha-ET or AET.
(30) 2,5-dimethoxy-4-ethylamphetamine. Some trade or other
names:
DOET.
(e) Depressants. Unless specifically excepted or unless listed
in
another schedule, any material, compound, mixture, or preparation
which
contains any quantity of the following substances having a
depressant
effect on the central nervous system, including its salts, isomers,
and
salts of isomers whenever the existence of such salts, isomers,
and
salts of isomers is possible within the specific chemical designation:
(1) Mecloqualone.
(2) Methaqualone.
(3) Phencyclidine.
(f) Stimulants. Unless specifically excepted or unless listed
in
another schedule, any material, compound, mixture, or preparation
which
contains any quantity of the following substances having a
stimulant
effect on the central nervous system, including its salts, isomers,
and
salts of isomers:
(1) Fenethylline.
(2) N-ethylamphetamine.
(3) (+ -)cis-4-methylaminorex ((+ -)cis-4,5-dihydro-4-methyl
-5-phe-
nyl-2-oxazolamine).
(4) N,N-dimethylamphetamine (also known as
N,N-alpha-trimethyl-
benzeneethanamine N,N-alpha-trimethylphenethylamine).
(5) Methcathinone (some other names:
2-(methylamino)-propiophenone;
alpha-(methylamino) propiophenone; 2-(methylamino)
-1-phenylpropan-1-one
alpha--N--methylaminopropiophenone; monomethylpropion; ephadrone,
N-me-
thylcathinone, methylcathinone).
(6) Aminorex. Some other names: aminoxaphen; 2-amino-5-phenyl
-2-oxa-
zoline; or 4,5-dihydro-5-phenyl-2-oxazolamine.
(7) Cathinone. Some trade or other names:
2-amino-1-phenyl-1-propa-
none, alpha-aminopropiophenone, 2-aminopropiophenone, and norephedrone.
Schedule II. (a) Schedule II shall consist of the drugs and
other
substances, by whatever official name, common or usual name,
chemical
name, or brand name designated, listed in this section.
(b) Substances, vegetable origin or chemical synthesis. Unless
specif-
ically excepted or unless listed in another schedule, any of the
follow-
ing substances whether produced directly or indirectly by
extraction
from substances of vegetable origin, or independently by means of
chemi-
cal synthesis, or by a combination of extraction and chemical
synthesis:
(1) Opium and opiate, and any salt, compound, derivative, or
prepara-
tion of opium or opiate, excluding apomorphine, dextrorphan,
nalbuphine,
nalmefene, naloxone, and naltrexone, and their respective salts,
but
including the following:
1. Raw opium.
2. Opium extracts.
3. Opium fluid extracts.
4. Powdered opium.
5. Granulated opium.
6. Tincture of opium.
7. Codeine.
8. Ethylmorphine.
9. Etorphine hydrochloride.
10. Hydrocodone.
11. Hydromorphone.
12. Metopon.
13. Morphine.
14. Oxycodone.
15. Oxymorphone.
16. Thebaine.
(2) Any salt, compound, derivative, or preparation thereof which
is
chemically equivalent or identical with any of the substances
referred
to in this section, except that these substances shall not include
the
isoquinoline alkaloids of opium.
(3) Opium poppy and poppy straw.
(4) Coca leaves and any salt, compound, derivative, or preparation
of
coca leaves, and any salt, compound, derivative, or preparation
thereof
which is chemically equivalent or identical with any of these
substances
including cocaine and ecgonine, their salts, isomers, and salts of
isom-
ers, except that the substances shall not include decocainized
coca
leaves or extraction of coca leaves, which extractions do not
contain
cocaine or ecgonine.
(5) Concentrate of poppy straw (the crude extract of poppy straw
in
either liquid, solid or powder form which contains the
phenanthrene
alkaloids of the opium poppy).
(c) Opiates. Unless specifically excepted or unless in another
sched-
ule any of the following opiates, including its isomers, esters,
ethers,
salts and salts of isomers, esters and ethers whenever the existence
of
such isomers, esters, ethers, and salts is possible within the
specific
chemical designation, dextrorphan and levopropoxyphene excepted:
(1) Alfentanil.
(2) Alphaprodine.
(3) Anileridine.
(4) Bezitramide.
(5) Bulk dextropropoxyphene (non-dosage forms).
(6) Carfentanil.
(7) Dihydrocodeine.
(8) Diphenoxylate.
(9) Fentanyl.
(10) Isomethadone.
(11) Levo-alphacetylmethadol (also known as
levo-alpha-acetylmethadol,
levomethadylacetate or LAAM).
(12) Levomethorphan.
(13) Levorphanol.
(14) Metazocine.
(15) Methadone.
(16) Methadone-intermediate, 4-cyano-2-dimethylamino-4,
4-diphenyl
butane.
(17) Moramide-intermediate, 2-methyl-3-morpholino-1,
1-diphenylpro-
pane-carboxylic acid.
(18) Pethidine (meperidine).
(19) Pethidine-intermediate-A, 4-cyano-1-methyl-4-phenylpiperidine.
(20) Pethidine-intermediate-B,
ethyl-4-phenylpiperidine-4-carboxylate.
(21) Pethidine-intermediate-C,
1-methyl-4-phenylpiperidine-4-
carboxylic acid.
(22) Phenazocine.
(23) Piminodine.
(24) Racemethorphan.
(25) Racemorphan.
(26) Sufentanil.
(d) Stimulants. Unless specifically excepted or unless listed
in
another schedule, any material, compound, mixture, or preparation
which
contains any quantity of the following substances having a
stimulant
effect on the central nervous system:
(1) Amphetamine, its salts, optical isomers, and salts of its
optical
isomers.
(2) Methamphetamine, its salts, isomers, and salts of its isomers.
(3) Phenmetrazine and its salts.
(4) Methylphenidate.
(e) Depressants. Unless specifically excepted or unless listed
in
another schedule, any material, compound, mixture, or preparation
which
contains any quantity of the following substances having a
depressant
effect on the central nervous system, including its salts, isomers,
and
salts of isomers whenever the existence of such salts, isomers,
and
salts of isomers is possible within the specific chemical designation:
(1) Amobarbital.
(2) Glutethimide.
(3) Pentobarbital.
(4) Secobarbital.
(f) Hallucinogenic substances.
(1) Dronabinol (synthetic) in sesame oil and encapsulated in a
soft
gelatin capsule in a U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved
drug
product. Some other names for dronabinol: (6aR-trans)-6a, 7,
8,
10a-tetrahydro-6, 6, 9-trimethyl-3-pentyl-6H-dibenzo{b,d} pyran-1-ol,
or
(-) delta-9-(trans) -tetrahydrocannabinol.
(2) Nabilone: Another name for nabilone:
(+,-)-trans
-3-(1,1-dimethylheptyl)-6, 6a, 7, 8, 10,
10a-hexahydro-1-hydroxy-6,
6-dimethyl-9H-dibenzo {b,d} pyran-9-one.
(g) Immediate precursors. Unless specifically excepted or unless
list-
ed in another schedule, any material, compound, mixture or
preparation
which contains any quantity of the following substances:
(1) Immediate precursor to amphetamine and methamphetamine:
(i) Phenylacetone Some trade or other names: pheny1-2-propanone;
P2P;
benzyl methyl ketone; methyl benzyl ketone;
(2) Immediate precursors to phencyclidine (PCP):
(i) 1-phenylcyclohexylamine;
(ii) 1-piperidinocyclohexanecarbonitrile (PCC).
(h) Anabolic steroids. Unless specifically excepted or unless
listed
in another schedule, "anabolic steroid" shall mean any drug or
hormonal
substance, chemically and pharmacologically related to
testosterone
(other than estrogens, progestins and corticosteroids) that
promotes
muscle growth, any drug or hormonal substance that stimulates
the
endogenous production of steroids in the human body which acts in
the
same manner, or any material, compound, mixture, or preparation
which
contains any amount of the following substances:
(1) Boldenone.
(2) Clostebol.
(3) Dehydrochlormethyltestosterone.
(4) Drostanolone.
(5) Ethylestrenol.
(6) Fluoxymesterone.
(7) Formebulone (formebolone).
(8) Mesterolene.
(9) Methandriol.
(10) Methandrostenolone.
(11) Methenolone.
(12) Methyltestosterone.
(13) Mibolerone.
(14) Nandrolone.
(15) Norethandrolone.
(16) Oxandrolone.
(17) Oxymesterone.
(18) Oxymetholone.
(19) Stanolone.
(20) Stanozolol.
(21) Testosterone.
(22) Trenbolone.
(23) Any salt, ester or isomer of a drug or substance described
or
listed in this subdivision, if such salt, ester or isomer
promotes
muscle growth.
(i) Subdivision (h) of this section shall not include any
substance
containing anabolic steroids expressly intended for
administration
through implants to cattle or other nonhuman species and that
are
approved by the federal food and drug administration solely for
such
use. Any individual who knowingly and willfully administers to
himself
or another person, prescribes, dispenses or distributes such
substances
for other than implantation to cattle or nonhuman species shall
be
subject to the same penalties as a practitioner who violates
the
provisions of this section or any other penalties prescribed by law.
(j) Chorionic gonadotrophin. Unless specifically excepted or
unless
listed in another schedule any material, compound, mixture, or
prepara-
tion which contains any amount of chorionic gonadotrophin.
joh...@ccrs.nrcan.gc.ca
Lance Freezeland wrote:
> Next, you'll be arguing that kindergarten teachers
> should be paid the same as left fielders because of the value of the
> service they provide to the community.
Should they be paid extra for clutch teaching?
Seth Jackson
No sense of humor.
mrbrklyn
<<No sense of humor.>>
I thought I was very funny ...
sli...@slidge.com
> That splashing noise you hear is your id going PLOINK in the killfile
>
PLOINK?!?!
What a maroon.