Bradley traded ?!?!?!
Duh_Oz
The Seattle Mariners have found a way to get rid of one of their last
lingering problems. According to major-league sources, the club has
agreed to trade Carlos Silva, who still has two years remaining on the
four-year, $48 million contract given him by former general manager
Bill Bavasi before the 2008 season, to the Cubs in exchange for
outfielder Milton Bradley.
Claude
"Duh_Oz" <ozzy....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:81a68c28-2ee2-43cf...@v25g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
I don't follow the American League, and so I know nothing about Silva except
what I read in this article. It would seem, from this article, that Silva,
at present, is pretty worthless, and therefore the trade is not too much
different from the Cubs eating Bradley's contract. The optimistic view is,
of course, that Silva will regain some effectiveness, and the trade will be
a plus for the Cubs. We'll just have to wait and see.
Mark Anderson
> http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/
I don't like this deal at all. Since none of us are privy as to how
badly Bradley became a cancer to the Cubs clubhouse let's just take that
out of the equation and evaluate these two based on stats.
Although Bradley performed somewhat badly hitting-wise, he did have 66
walks which upped his .257 BA to .378 OBP. Although Dusty Baker wouldn't
approve of Bradley's clogging of the bases, he does get on base more than
anyone other than Ramirez and Lee.
Compare that with Carlos Silva. See:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/silvaca01.shtml
His ERA for the last two years was 6.46 (2008) and 8.60 (2009). During
his entire career he never did have a decent ERA except for perhaps his
rookie year and 2005. Unless the Cubs can turn him around (highly
doubtful), Silva looks washed up to me. I doubt he'd work out as a
middle reliever. Perhaps Hendry knows something about Silva that go
beyond the stats but I wouldn't bet on that either.
Therefore, IMHO, this gives away a below average defensive OF with a
decent OBP for a pitcher that Lou won't be able to trust in any situation
other than blowout games. The salary outlays are a wash. The possible
upside for Bradley seems a lot better than a possible upside for Silva.
I say no on this one which means Jim Hendry will probably say yes.
Claude
"Claude" <cla...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:hggmem$8i8$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
There is a slight advantage in this trade to just releasing Bradley. As I
understand it, once you even out the two salaries, the Cubs net $6 million
from the money Seattle will send. If Silva is worthless, in a worse-case
scenario, and has to be released, the Cubs eat $17 million instead of the
$23 million for outright release of Bradley. Apparently this was the best
Hendry could get for him.
Paddy Waggin
> Silva that go beyond the stats but I
> wouldn't bet on that either.
Me neither... Just what does Hendry know, anything?
I am confused.... Is this a good deal?
Why don't we trade OR git rid of Hendry?
Would that work? Why do we trade one BAD apple for another? Why does my
head hurt? Why is Claude so old?
BTW... enjoy all the snow that's headin' your way, Claude. <heh,heh..
sorry>
tks
>> Perhaps Hendry knows something about
>> Silva that go beyond the stats but I
>> wouldn't bet on that either.
>
> Me neither... Just what does Hendry know, anything?
>
> I am confused.... Is this a good deal?
>
> Why don't we trade OR git rid of Hendry?
>
This is a good trade for the Cubs for the simple fact they got rid of
Bradley....Silva, based on his last two years, is basically worthless
but the Cubs do get $9,000,000 to offset the difference in salary.
(Milton $21M for 2 years and Silva $24M for 2 years).
The $9M from Seattle gives the Cubs $6M they didn't have before, so from
the standpoint of getting rid of Bradley and improving payroll by $6M
makes some sense.
Talent wise, advantage Seattle...Payroll wise, advantage Cubs and right
now payroll is a most important issue.
So, whew!...Thank God and Grayhound, he's gone!
tks
The old geezer
Michael Lanasa
m...@nospambrandylion.com says...
>
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 10:35:36 -0800, Duh_Oz wrote:
>
> > http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/
> thehotstoneleague/2010540975_shocker_mariners_trading_carlo.html
> >
> > The Seattle Mariners have found a way to get rid of one of their last
> > lingering problems. According to major-league sources, the club has
> > agreed to trade Carlos Silva, who still has two years remaining on the
> > four-year, $48 million contract given him by former general manager Bill
> > Bavasi before the 2008 season, to the Cubs in exchange for outfielder
> > Milton Bradley.
>
> I don't like this deal at all. Since none of us are privy as to how
> badly Bradley became a cancer to the Cubs clubhouse let's just take that
> out of the equation and evaluate these two based on stats.
>
I don't think you can ignore the attitude issues, because those issues
are the reason for the trade.
You're correct, none of us are privy as to how badly Bradley had become
a cancer, but Hendry, Piniella and the rest of Cubs management was, and
they suspended him from the team and then traded him for garbage. That
says a lot.
Frank Sereno
Take this all with a grain a salt because reporting these days isn't what it
used to be, but I found at least one article that stated that Silva is
clubhouse cancer himself. So did we trade our headache for someone elses?
Michael Lanasa
fse...@nospam.com says...
>
> On 18-Dec-2009, Michael Lanasa <mpNOl...@yahSPAMoo.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <O7ednUUwu9RTQrbW...@speakeasy.net>,
> > m...@nospambrandylion.com says...
> >
> > are the reason for the trade.
> >
> > You're correct, none of us are privy as to how badly Bradley had become
> > a cancer, but Hendry, Piniella and the rest of Cubs management was, and
> > they suspended him from the team and then traded him for garbage. That
> > says a lot.
>
> Take this all with a grain a salt because reporting these days isn't what it
> used to be, but I found at least one article that stated that Silva is
> clubhouse cancer himself. So did we trade our headache for someone elses?
Wow, I know nothing at all about Silva, but if that's true it seems very
odd. Maybe the Cubs are planning to cut Silva, and they just needed the
$9M to get a new CF or 2B?
You would hope that the Cubs did their due diligence on Silva, but then
again, these are the same people who did their due diligence on Bradley.
Duh_Oz
>
> Take this all with a grain a salt because reporting these days isn't what it
> used to be, but I found at least one article that stated that Silva is
> clubhouse cancer himself. So did we trade our headache for someone elses?
===============
My sister, who lives in Seattle and is a huge baseball fan mentioned
he was a nice guy but an awful pitcher.
Time I tell I guess and she didn't think much of the trade either way.
Casey Miller
I agree that this trade was necessary. Signing Bradley was a horrible
decision, and the Cubs had to get rid of him whatever the cost. But
I don't think I can bring myself to call "good" anything associated
with the monumental wreckage of the Milton Bradley experience. The
Cubs are going to pay for this for years, in one way or another. (I
can't believe thatJim Hendry was quoted today saying something to the
effect that "no one could have foreseen how this would turn out." Many
people could have and did foresee this).
So, the Cubs have added by subtracting. But where does this leave the
Cubs? For the first time in my fandom, I have very little enthusiasm
for the upcoming season. I think it will require a convergence of
unlikely events for the team to even compete for the wild card, much
less the division title: Soriano, Soto and to a lesser extent
Dempster have to return to form; Lee has to fight off the effects of
age and continue to perform at a high level; Ramirez and, later,
Lilly have to return from injury; Zambrano has to grow up and pitch
like a $19M/year pitcher; two someones from among Silva, Marshall,
Samardzija and Gorzelanny have to provide solid innings in the 4th
and 5th spots; Theriot has to have another career year. Not to
mention the problems in the bullpen. Have I missed anything? I would
not be surprised at a 3d place finish in the Central.
I hope this is just the pessimism born of watching other teams strive
to improve themselves this offseason while the Cubs waste all their
energy trying to correct last year's mistakes. Maybe the Cubs' big
moves are yet to come.
My biggest frustration is that I think this offseason represents a
missed opportunity. I can accept a rebuilding year, if that
rebuilding promises dividends down the road. But I haven't seen
evidence of that. 2010 looks to be one last gasp to win with the
same players and baseball executives before the real makeover begins.
I did not expect the Rickettses to come in, dump non-performers, eat
bad contracts and so forth. But I had a hope that they would install
a group of executives who would reorganize the Cubs, from top to
bottom, into a championship organization that would compete year after
year. It looks as if those changes will have to wait until 2011, at
the earliest. In the meantime, we are asked to simply enjoy the
improved Wrigley experience (which I will try to do).
For the record, I am a relatively recent convert to Cubs pain. I
grew up with the early 60s Reds. Frank Robinson was my boyhood hero.
I didn't start rooting for the Cubs until I moved here in the early
90s. I don't have the generational perspective of some of you (I take
it from this forum that tks by himself has the perspective of several
generations). I have, however, made the perhaps unpardonable sin of
making my sons into Cubs fans. I hope 50 years from now they have no
need to forgive me.
And to borrow from a different thread that Claude started, my best
wishes of this holiday season for peace on earth, good will toward
all of you.
Paddy Waggin
My name is Pat and I write from
Denver Co. Claude and I grew up in
the same neighborhood.... we ARE
old... but Claude is older....
Welcome to the pain and frustration,
that is known as Cubs baseball...
I don't think the new owners are done
making changes. My thinking is that
we will see some trades and such that
will shock and sadden many of us.
But all for the purpose of making
the days at Wrigley a much happier
experience....
Again Casey... stick around we need
all the help we can get.
Oh... and BTW... Thanx to you Claude
for your good wishes... I am progressing
pretty well... albeit I am still hooked
on pain pills...so, forgive my goofy post's
every once in a while... :-)
Lord Vader III
This is one of the biggest problems with baseball. Looking at this
guys career stats, how on Earth did he ever get a 4 year $48 million
contract?
LVIII
Claude
"Paddy Waggin" <LQQK_N...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:19439-4B2...@storefull-3112.bay.webtv.net...
> Very nice post, Casey....
>
> My name is Pat and I write from
> Denver Co. Claude and I grew up in
> the same neighborhood.... we ARE
> old... but Claude is older....
And tks is even older.
(snip)
> albeit I am still hooked
> on pain pills...so, forgive my goofy post's
> every once in a while... :-)
At least you have an excuse....unlike the rest of us.
tks
. I don't have the generational perspective of some of you (I take
> it from this forum that tks by himself has the perspective of several
> generations). I have, however, made the perhaps unpardonable sin of
> making my sons into Cubs fans. I hope 50 years from now they have no
> need to forgive me.
>
I don't know about my generational perspective but I do know there are
few here that have seen more Cub loses than I have experienced. Maybe
Claude, Paddy Waggin or The old geezer.
Other than those old poops, I don't believe there is anyone else that
qualifies.
If I do hold the record, believe me there is no redeeming quality I can
think of, other than I am still relatively lucid...and certainly no
thanks goes to the Cubs for that.
tks
Michael Lanasa
kcmi...@enteract.com says...
>
> So, the Cubs have added by subtracting. But where does this leave the
> Cubs? For the first time in my fandom, I have very little enthusiasm
> for the upcoming season. I think it will require a convergence of
> unlikely events for the team to even compete for the wild card, much
> less the division title: Soriano, Soto and to a lesser extent
> Dempster have to return to form; Lee has to fight off the effects of
> age and continue to perform at a high level; Ramirez and, later,
> Lilly have to return from injury; Zambrano has to grow up and pitch
> like a $19M/year pitcher; two someones from among Silva, Marshall,
> Samardzija and Gorzelanny have to provide solid innings in the 4th
> and 5th spots; Theriot has to have another career year. Not to
> mention the problems in the bullpen. Have I missed anything? I would
> not be surprised at a 3d place finish in the Central.
A 3rd place finish would not surprise me either, but I also would not be
surprised by a first place finish. This is going to be one of those
years where a lot of things need to happen if the Cubs are to be good:
Soriano and and Soto will have to rebound, Lee, Zambrano, etc. You
listed most of it.
I would imagine that the 4th and 5th starters will be something of a
musical chairs between Marshall, Samardzija, Gorz, Silva, and even Wells
who will have to show that last season wasn't a fluke. Lou will have his
hands full this year.
Frank Sereno
On 22-Dec-2009, Bubbam...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 05:38:45 -0800 (PST), Lord Vader III
> <lord.va...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >This is one of the biggest problems with baseball. Looking at this
> >guys career stats, how on Earth did he ever get a 4 year $48 million
> >contract?
>
> He was signed by the worst GM in Baseball, Bill Bavasi. Bavasi makes
> Hendry look like Branch Rickey.
>
> --
> BubbaRumDum
But at least Bavasi got fired!
Cory
> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 05:38:45 -0800 (PST), Lord Vader III
> <lord.va...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> guys career stats, how on Earth did he ever get a 4 year $48 million
>> contract?
>
> Hendry look like Branch Rickey.
By the way, who's the idiot that snagged Bradley for the Cubs? I'm
genuinely asking here. I'm NOT trying to make any "point". TIA.
--- Cory
Cory
Not to mention, as you sort of alluded to, the Cubs got rid of a HUGE
mass of cancer in the clubhouse.
--- Cory
Paddy Waggin
Uhm, does anyone see a similarity
of the two names?
I know it's a stretch, but...!
One never knows...
Claude
<Bubbam...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7kdik5hf28c5og9dj...@4ax.com...
> Not an excuse but that is what happened. He has value, Silva is
> useless. Totally and absolutely useless.
It depends on Bradley's mental attitude. He could have value. Silva is
useless---agreed. If Bradley goes into a funk or continues to have
"problems", he becomes less than useless---a distraction and a negative. We
will all have to wait and see.