K-Rod--what a waste
Matthew Shugart
need to tell all you math whizzes out there that that's around an
inning every second game.
Well, so far this year he has thrown 25 innings in 72 team games. That
is just over an inning every THIRD game (.347 IP/G).
(He was on the DL from May 24 to June 2, during which time the team
played nine games, so that's 25 IP for 63 games in which he was
active--.397 IP/G.)
So, this is what a "promotion" to the CLOSER ROLE means--you get to
work less for more money. Nice gig.
Not so good for our team, however. He is on pace for about 64 innings
for the season, or about 25% less than the last two years.
Unless ~85 IP/year is too much for him--which I would hope and suspec
is not the case--this is just a tremendous waste of your best
reliever--probably best PITCHER.
I feared this would happen. I hoped it would not. Sigh.
Rick S.
news:1119738186.4...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Great post, Matthew! No doubt about it -- Frankie has been an underutilized
resource thus far in 2005.
It's time MLB evolved past its rigid notions about bullpen "roles,"
especially when it comes to the later innings of a tightly contested game.
Why not let common sense enter into the equation?
I'll give Scioscia some credit for being more enlightened than the average
pushbutton modern-day manager in that he will occasionally call on Frankie
in the eighth inning of a game with one or two men out and the score tied or
the Halos clinging to a narrow advantage, but I think it should happen more
often. In fact, I see no reason why Frankie couldn't go two full or even
two plus innings at times when the other guys are showing signs of overwork
and fatigue.
Rick
rmj...@aol.com
>I'll give Scioscia some credit for being more enlightened than the average
pushbutton modern-day manager in that he will occasionally call on
Frankie
in the eighth inning of a game with one or two men out and the score
tied or
the Halos clinging to a narrow advantage, but I think it should happen
more
often. In fact, I see no reason why Frankie couldn't go two full or
even
two plus innings at times when the other guys are showing signs of
overwork
and fatigue.<
Another thing to consider: I don't have the numbers (perhaps Black Jack
Peng does?), but K-Rod seems less mentally tough when he's NOT in a
save position. His game falls off if he's pitching because he hasn't
had work for more than three games and the Angels are up by more than
4; he also seems a tad shaky when he comes in w/the score tied, or the
Angels down by one. Maybe it's just my imagination? But a save
situation? Almost always lights out.
-michael
aimle...@gmail.com
> Another thing to consider: I don't have the numbers
> (perhaps Black Jack Peng does?), but K-Rod seems less
> mentally tough when he's NOT in a save position.
Rodriguez's ERA in non-save situations is actually slightly lower than
in save situations, 2.70 to 2.81.
The difference in KRod has been since his DL stint. Before, he threw 16
innings, striking out 23 and walking just 2, totalling 11 baserunners
-- outstanding. Since his return, he's thrown 11 innings, striking out
16 (good) walking NINE and allowing 19 baserunners in just his 11
innings. Moreover, he's had just two 1-2-3 appearances since June 1.
I don't think KRod's got an issue with non-save situations. I wonder
why he's had problems throwing his fastball for strikes. I DO think
he's being terribly underused.
-------
d.
GO ANGELS! 2002 WORLD CHAMPIONS!
www.baseballthinkfactory.org
http://www.lyno.org/gametime/index.html
"I follow the Asian masters. They are at one with the throw.
I am the Rock. I am the Scissor. I am the Paper."
- Pete Lovering, 2002 World Rock-Paper-Scissors Champion
jsc...@bak.rr.com
"closer". Does Scioscia think that Frankie is unable to throw more
than an inning at a time now that he is the 9th inning guy? It is just
so unenlightened for guys to be pidgeon-holed into roles that are this
strict.
Thanks for writing what I have been thinking since May 1, and Scioscia
really needs to be called out on the carpet for this - especially
considering that Shields is being criminally OVER-used.
Harry Dellamano
<jsc...@bak.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1119802356.7...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I love your "Scioscia really needs to be called out on the carpet for
this".
What do you know that we don't know? MS and his coaches study these guys
every day. It is not rocket science but common sense and baseball savvy is
required. You only know what you see in games played. Hopefully you mute the
TV so the house boys don't fry your brain with the greatness of every aspect
of Angel baseball. The newspapers have little info to add but at least they
don't spread Angel propaganda.
Tells us about K-Rod in the minors and his pitching performance of starting
vs. reliving. Try to tell us that no reliever has ever won the MVP or CY
awards.
IMHO, if K-Rod continues to throw more sliders than fastballs he will be
reduced to less than one inning for his own safety sake.
How do fans get so smart?
Harry
Rick S.
news:L1Cve.4001$4M1.3487@trnddc07...
Harry, that's an excellent point about the ratio of sliders to
fastballs...hadn't really considered the issue from that angle. Your post
has given me a greater appreciation for the Angels' current strategy.
Odds are that with too heavy a workload, K-Rod would eventually blow out an
elbow or a shoulder due to the incredible torque he puts on his breaking
pitches, so maybe it is most prudent to manage his appearances the way Mike
has been doing. The injury may well occur anyway at some point, but at
least it can be postponed if his IP total remains limited and he is given
adequate rest between appearances.
If baseball were international politics, I suppose Frankie could be likened
to our ultimate WMD...it would seem to make sense to conserve him for
situations when he's most urgently needed, rather than dragging him out of
the silo for every minor border skirmish.
The toughest part of all this for me to swallow is simply the fact that I
enjoy watching him pitch so much! (Selfish, I know....)
Rick
Rick S.
Taking Harry's post into consideration, and on further reflection of my own,
I think it's unlikely Frankie's role will change much if at all, but I do
share your concern over the situation with Shields. I know he's supposed to
have a "rubber arm" and all, but isn't there such a thing as overexposure?
Most hitters do eventually begin to catch onto a guy after they've seen him
often enough.
Peralta and Woods are just rookies, but they've looked terrific so far and I
wouldn't at all mind seeing them assume a somewhat larger portion of the
workload. It's a long season, and it would behoove us to keep our core trio
of Shields, Donnelly and K-Rod as fresh as possible for when the games count
the most, in September and especially October.
Rick
jsc...@bak.rr.com
It's a long season, and it would behoove us to keep our core trio of
Shields, Donnelly and K-Rod as fresh as possible for when the games
count the most, in September and especially October.
This is a great point and one only needs to look to the NY Yankees of
2004 for inpetus to keep the core trio well rested for the post season.
Torre was so reliant on Rivera, Gordon and Quantrill from April to
August that he had burned out those guys by October.
There is another aspect of this as well...Torre (like Scioscia) didn't
trust some of the other arms in tough situations. Because he didn't
let the guys lower on the depth chart pitch meaningful innings in the
regular season he wasn't able to let them contribute in the
post-season. If Scioscia doesn't let Peralta and Woods (maybe
Yan...but that is pushing it) get tough outs in June will he really let
them make tough pitches in October?
If nothing else, Frankie could get a few more high leverage innings
here and there to fully utilize his skill and talent and guys like
Peralta and Woods could be given a little more important role so that
the whole pen is clicking when the post-season comes a knockin.
Rick S.
news:1119850799.8...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Rick S. wrote:
> It's a long season, and it would behoove us to keep our core trio of
> Shields, Donnelly and K-Rod as fresh as possible for when the games
> count the most, in September and especially October.
>
>
> This is a great point and one only needs to look to the NY Yankees of
> 2004 for inpetus to keep the core trio well rested for the post season.
> Torre was so reliant on Rivera, Gordon and Quantrill from April to
> August that he had burned out those guys by October.
>
Outstanding parallel! Wish I'd thought of it ;-)
> There is another aspect of this as well...Torre (like Scioscia) didn't
> trust some of the other arms in tough situations. Because he didn't
> let the guys lower on the depth chart pitch meaningful innings in the
> regular season he wasn't able to let them contribute in the
> post-season. If Scioscia doesn't let Peralta and Woods (maybe
> Yan...but that is pushing it) get tough outs in June will he really let
> them make tough pitches in October?
>
It's an excellent question, and I hope Mike doesn't paint himself into a
corner this way. Fortunately he seems to be a guy who recognizes, at least
on a theoretical level, that it truly does take all 25 men to get the job
done, so maybe he can avoid Torre's mistake.
> If nothing else, Frankie could get a few more high leverage innings
> here and there to fully utilize his skill and talent and guys like
> Peralta and Woods could be given a little more important role so that
> the whole pen is clicking when the post-season comes a knockin.
>
Wholeheartedly agree! Now is the time to start preparing these guys so they
can be primed to deliver later on. Who knows, they could wind up playing
key roles in October, especially if a starter gets knocked out early or an
untimely injury occurs! At the very least they will give us greater
flexibility late in ballgames, assuming Scioscia has both the confidence and
the will to press them into service.
I think there is still one more benefit to handing these rookies the ball a
bit more often, and that is the fact that it introduces a subtle note of
competition. It's good for everyone to know their roles and feel reasonably
secure in them, but sometimes not so good when people get a little *too*
comfortable. Don't mean to suggest this is at all the case in the Angel
pen, but on a subconscious level, I think any player tends to stay at his
sharpest when he's experiencing just a bit of pressure from the guy
immediately beneath him in the foodchain.
Rick
Matthew Shugart
> Another thing to consider: I don't have the numbers (perhaps Black Jack
> Peng does?), but K-Rod seems less mentally tough when he's NOT in a
> save position. His game falls off if he's pitching because he hasn't
> had work for more than three games and the Angels are up by more than
> 4; he also seems a tad shaky when he comes in w/the score tied, or the
> Angels down by one. Maybe it's just my imagination? But a save
> situation? Almost always lights out.
>
I've heard it said often about lots of closers that they are less
reliable when it is not a save situation. I do not know if it is one of
those things that announcers just like to say, or whether there is
anything to it. Does anyone know? I mean, it is possible, isn't it,
even if it makes little objective sense.
An addendum to my original post. Of course, Frankie has not been as
lights-out this year. I hope he is OK. And with Shields having the year
he has had, the bullpen use may be closer to right than I implied.
Nonetheless, I still think 65 or so innings is under-use.
Matthew Shugart
jsc...@bak.rr.com wrote:
>
> Thanks for writing what I have been thinking since May 1,
Ah, next time, just go ahead and scoop me! :-)
and Scioscia
> really needs to be called out on the carpet for this - especially
> considering that Shields is being criminally OVER-used.
I've had some concerns about that, but the pace is more or less exactly
100 innings. I don't think that is really worrisome.
He threw 105.1 last year (60 games, all in relief) and 148.1 the year
before (44 games, 13 starts).
The distribution of his workload is notably different, however. He has
been in exactly HALF the Angels games to date (June 27, before that
day's game). So Scioscia is calling on him more often, but for fewer
outs per appearance. I guess that's the "classic" set-up role. For
better or worse.
Is there any reason to worry that this is "criminal" over-use? I'm not
so sure. Is it worse to pitch an inning every other game than to
average about 2 innings every third game? Honestly, I have no idea.
jsc...@bak.rr.com
I overstate at times when I am angry. The "criminal" over-use was just
that.
Thanks for correcting me.
Gnork aka The Gnorkmeister
Only dolts have a closer in the 1st place. At last count there are 30
dolts managing major league teams. It is time to eliminate the closer
and return to the ace reliever. The ace reliever was often good for 100
to 120 innings per season with less arm problems than today's pampered
closers who do far less to help their teams win.