Victor Martinez
Dano
morning. Martinez would plug a lot of holes we may...or may not have going
forward...C, DH, even as a backup first baseman. This is the type of
acquisition that would make great sense IMO.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9584378/Tribe-not-trying-to-move-Martinez,-but-would-they
Throws like Mary
> Here's an interesting possibility being reported on by Ken Rosenthal this
> morning. Martinez would plug a lot of holes we may...or may not have going
> forward...C, DH, even as a backup first baseman. This is the type of
> acquisition that would make great sense IMO.
>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/poqncq
Martinez as DH is an interesting idea. In the short term he makes up
for Papi's bat, and in the long term he becomes the de facto
replacement for Tek. I wonder if he can catch Wake?
How would we get him, is the big question. Martinez is hugely
popular in Cleveland. The Indians have Shoppach and their top minor
league prospect is a catcher, so they could use Martinez as trade
bait, but it is unlikely that they want t catcher in return, which
makes it expensive. It looks like this would have to be one of those
three-team deals. Either that, or the Sox carry three catchers.
wayback1918
Varitek would catch Wakefield.
Throws like Mary
No thanks. I've seen that act.
wayback1918
>
> - Show quoted text -
Varitek caught Wakefield for years its not an issue.
Throws like Mary
I don't buy that for a moment. They wouldn't have traded for
Mirabelli after they got rid of him if they thought Varitek could
catch Wake for more than a game or two.
wayback1918
>
> - Show quoted text -
He caught him all the time early in his career. I'm sure Varitek has
caught Wakefield more than any other catcher during his career.
This silly personal catcher system was not created out of Varitek's
inability to catch Wakefield
DonFro...@webtv.net
No thanks. I've seen that act. >>
And it seems pretty clear by their efforts to find others to catch
Wake that the team feels the same way.
--
'I'm constantly amazed at your
ability to live.'
'Better than dying'
Paraphrased from
Alan Shore and
Denny Crane
by DONNIE VEE!!!
Louis Martel
acquired from the Injuns. Mary says Tek ain't capable to which Wayward
Wind states" He (Tek) caught him all the time early in his career. I'm
sure Varitek has caught Wake more than any other catcher during his
career"
I don't have any stats as to how many games Tek has caught Wake but I do
have the following: Tek became the Sox primary catcher in 99 ( he did
appear in 83 games in 89) and appeared in 144 and in 2000 139 games,
which would mean he caught Wake during that period but in 2001 he got
injured and Doug M was the primary from June on. From June 01 through
the 05 season Dougie caught Wake approx 193 games/appearances. From July
06 through the 07 season it was Doug and Wake again and I would guess
another 42 games. Total approx 237 games. So I doubt that in 2 1/2
seasons that Tek caught Wake 237 games or so.
Conclusion: Since early 01 Tek has not caught Wake except on rare
occasions. Could he saddle up and do a decent job after all that time?
Maybe although I don't believe he would enjoy it.
"Sweet Lou"
bi...@ix.netcom.com
I agree with you Louis, Varitek wouldn't like it but I think it is
time for this to happen, wouldn't it be easier to develop a new
catcher or bring in one like Martinez if he doesn't have to worry
about Wakefield, now that Varitek is older and not a good hitter, why
not make him the Wakefield catcher, I think it would be better to be
honest.
For the suggestion of Dano, I would welcome it, Martinez would be a
great fit for the team, he could help them at catcher, 1B, 3B by
moving Youk if necessary, DH. He is a vbery good hitter, I also heard
MAYBE he is on the block, I would love to get back Shoppach too if
that were the alternative, I think he would be good with more playing
time like he was last year.
Dano
I have no question he could do it. And do it well. The primary reason was
always to structure regular days off and to allow him to carry the bulk of
the catching duties. If Martinez were acquired Tek would become the backup.
THAT'S what he probably would not like. I understand that...and it's too
bad...he'd have to adjust and get over it. I like Tek. I've never made a
secret of that. But whatever is best for the team. He will have to deal
with his baseball mortality when the time comes. It's never easy. There's
still the matter of 5 million bucks per year to soften the blow.
Throws like Mary
> Louis Martel wrote:
> > In discussion as to who would catch Wake if V. Martinez was some how
> > acquired from the Injuns. Mary says Tek ain't capable to which Wayward
> > Wind states" He (Tek) caught him all the time early in his career. I'm
> > sure Varitek has caught Wake more than any other catcher during his
> > career"
>
> > I don't have any stats as to how many games Tek has caught Wake but I
> > do have the following: Tek became the Sox primary catcher in 99 ( he
> > did appear in 83 games in 89) and appeared in 144 and in 2000 139
> > games, which would mean he caught Wake during that period but in 2001
> > he got injured and Doug M was the primary from June on. From June 01
> > through the 05 season Dougie caught Wake approx 193
> > games/appearances. From July 06 through the 07 season it was Doug and
> > Wake again and I would guess another 42 games. Total approx 237
> > games. So I doubt that in 2 1/2 seasons that Tek caught Wake 237
> > games or so.
>
> > Conclusion: Since early 01 Tek has not caught Wake except on rare
> > occasions. Could he saddle up and do a decent job after all that time?
> > Maybe although I don't believe he would enjoy it.
>
> I have no question he could do it. And do it well.
I have no question as to his ability to do it well. Anyone that puts
observation ahead of mutt-like loyalty and watched a game or two would
know that he is a knuckleball avoidance system, a human sieve. The
best argument against Tek's ability is that despite Tek's able
presence on the roster, the team traded away good talent to find
someone who could do it--gave Mirabelli a police escort no less--and
suffered for years the *abysmal* batting averages of those tasked with
being Wake's catcher.
CalC
>
> - Show quoted text -
Bard, Clay or Lars A is too much when I'd prefer Shoppach anyway.
wayback1918
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sniper Lou could be right. (still he made a lot of mistakes both in
facts and analysis)
Varitek did catch the majority of Wakefield's games from 1998 (not
19990) (and even the only game he played in 1997) until July 23,
2002. Wakefield was in the bullpen a lot of that time so whoever
started the game caught him when he entered the game
I could go through game logs for each year and compare the dates of
the games played.....but it really isn't important to point being
made.
The point I was trying to make....and maybe overstated.... was that
Varitek caught Wakefield a lot (undeniably at least second most of the
Knuckleballer's career).
In 2002 Mirabelli started season as the 'personal' catcher for former
Red Sox legends Darren Oliver and Frank Castillo. The plan,
instituted by Grady Little, was to build in rest days for his number 1
catcher Varitek. When Wakefield was given a start July 23, 2002
Mirabelli just happened to the catcher day. Wakefield won that day
8-2 and the marriage was made.
THE POINT: It had nothing to do with Varitek's inabilty or dislike of
catching Wakefield.
So in spite of having most of the facts wrong ....and totally
butchering the analysis....Sniper Lou might still be right. At least
it would be more trouble than its worth to prove him wrong on a
secondary point. Don't count on any Mea Culpa from the Sniper
though.....he just takes his shot and slithers away.
Gary
wrote:
>
>I have no question he could do it. And do it well. The primary reason was
>always to structure regular days off and to allow him to carry the bulk of
>the catching duties. If Martinez were acquired Tek would become the backup.
>THAT'S what he probably would not like. I understand that...and it's too
>bad...he'd have to adjust and get over it. I like Tek. I've never made a
>secret of that. But whatever is best for the team. He will have to deal
>with his baseball mortality when the time comes. It's never easy. There's
>still the matter of 5 million bucks per year to soften the blow.
>
The question is: Would Martinez be acquired to be the catcher or the
DH? I guess that depends on whether Papi's slump is a permanent one or
not.
wayback1918
> On Mon, 18 May 2009 15:47:29 -0400, "Dano" <janeandd...@yahoo.com>
Along with Youkilis.....Martinez would give the team a flexibility
that Baseball teams rarely see.
Catching half the games......moving Youkilis to third and DHing
Lowell......DH himself.
in a row.....
Pedroia
Martinez
Youkilis
Bay
Lowell
Left handers would be afraid to pitch in Fenway again.
wayback1918
What efforts....?
Mirabelli was already on the team.
Bard was certainly not traded for based on his defensive reputation.
After Bard failed it was already June so the team was pretty much over
a barrel. They couldn't afford to 'try out'
another catcher in the middle of the season so they went out and got
Mirabelli again.
The next effort they made was to call down to Pawtucket and get their
catcher....Kevin Cash
After him they just took the next guy on minor league
list....Kottaras. Not much effort again just a phone call.
Look Mirabelli and Cash were excellent defensive catchers and did an
excellent job with Wakefield
Varitek is a decent catcher and he did (does) a decent job with
Wakefield
Kottaras is an adequate catcher (maybe) and he is doing an adequate
job with Wakefield.
Bard is not a very good fielding catcher and he didn't do a very good
job catching Wakefield.
If fact everyone except Bard seems to have done ok as long as they see
him regularly.
The Knuckleball is probably a tough pitch to catch if you only see it
occasionally.....same as some of the reason that its tough to hit is
because batters only see it once in while but everyone....except
Bard.....who catches it regularly seems to do ok.
Gary
<wayba...@verizon.net> wrote:
>Along with Youkilis.....Martinez would give the team a flexibility
>that Baseball teams rarely see.
>
>Catching half the games......moving Youkilis to third and DHing
>Lowell......DH himself.
>
>in a row.....
>
>Pedroia
>Martinez
>Youkilis
>Bay
>Lowell
>
>Left handers would be afraid to pitch in Fenway again.
It would be interesting. If it ever happens, I don't think it will
happen in the immediate future. Also, in your post, you acknowledge it
would happen only if the Sox no longer see Papi as the DH.
Also, don't forget that Martinez will be hitting lefthanded most of
the time since he is a switch hitter.
Dano
"Gary" <golfe...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:8eq315t4alkv4fnsg...@4ax.com...
I don't think that's neccessary at all. Martinez is a valuable addition
whether as a catcher or as a DH. He can split time with Tek (perhaps even
the majority), while acting as a backup at first (which means also for
third). Simply great insurance if Papi is somehow out of the picture. As
it is, assuming no one else goes in the deal, he could simply take Bailey's
spot.
I also don't think any deal is imminent yet. Cleveland isn't quite ready to
throw in the towel.
Gary
wrote:
>> It would be interesting. If it ever happens, I don't think it will
>> happen in the immediate future. Also, in your post, you acknowledge it
>> would happen only if the Sox no longer see Papi as the DH.>
>> Also, don't forget that Martinez will be hitting lefthanded most of
>> the time since he is a switch hitter.
>
>I don't think that's neccessary at all. Martinez is a valuable addition
>whether as a catcher or as a DH. He can split time with Tek (perhaps even
>the majority), while acting as a backup at first (which means also for
>third). Simply great insurance if Papi is somehow out of the picture. As
>it is, assuming no one else goes in the deal, he could simply take Bailey's
>spot.
>
>I also don't think any deal is imminent yet. Cleveland isn't quite ready to
>throw in the towel.
>
While he would be great as reserve that plays more often than a normal
reserve, I don't see the Sox acquiring him for a role that doesn't
involve playing everyday. That's because of his salary AND what they
would have to give up for him, which could be substantial.
wayback1918
> On Mon, 18 May 2009 20:51:32 -0400, "Dano" <janeandd...@yahoo.com>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Maybe....the price probably went up when Delgardo went under the
knife,
Unless the Indians get better in hurry some of their guys are going to
go. Its a good idea to know which ones might be available......and
valuable.
Dano
I'm curious...do you think he sucks as a defensive catcher? Here I've been
of the impression for some time that most wish to upgrade at the position.
Are you saying he's no good? I don't know...I always thought he was pretty
good. If he's a defensive liability, I wouldn't want to do it.
Christina
wrote:
Well Dano the reputation of Martinez is that he is not so good a
catcher, Shoppach is said to be better though I don't know if Martinez
is bad or just so so?
Gary
wrote:
>I'm curious...do you think he sucks as a defensive catcher? Here I've been
>of the impression for some time that most wish to upgrade at the position.
>Are you saying he's no good? I don't know...I always thought he was pretty
>good. If he's a defensive liability, I wouldn't want to do it.
>
Don't really know how good he is defensively. It seems that Shoppach
catches a good number of games, which might give an answer or not.