Santa Claus, but No Santana?
Dave Bismo
friend Johan Santana won't be coming to Boston. I love Papi, but he
ain't exactly Kreskin. Remember when he said, "Pedro ain't going to
no Mets?" Or his reports on Manny not coming back to Boston? Why do
I have a feeling that Santana will come down the chimney tomorrow?
-Bismo.
Paul Dalrymple
Because the Yankees were reported saying the same thing about
Santana in Sunday's Herald? (That he wasn't coming to NY either)? ;)
Does that mean he's staying in MN? No one wants to pay the price
(give up the talent the Twins are demanding)?
Matadder
news:xfqdnU7rG__GWfLa...@comcast.com...
Cafardo, in yesterday's Globe, says that the Twins will probably deal him,
and if the Yanks don't add Kennedy to their offer, he will probably go to
the Sox, who have told Santana's agent they are willing to do the long-term
deal with him if the opportunity arises.
Dano
"Matadder" <mata...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ttudnRYNPNq2VfLa...@comcast.com...
But ONLY for the deal of Coco, Lester w/o any of the other blue-chippers.
This is now a game of chicken. I really don't believe Theo will blink
first. This is likely the very best they'll be offered. It's vastly better
for the Twins than risking getting only two picks.
Cobb
"Dave Bismo" <bi...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:cpbvm315aolak574t...@4ax.com...
That was a non-story. Ortiz doesn't know anything.
He should keep his mouth shut on sensitive trade matters.
Trouble is, this kind of sound bite will wind up everywhere--embarrassing
everybody concerned.
You can just see the headline in the NY tabloids:
"Ortiz says Santana coming to Yankees." LOL.
Cobb
The Twins are playing a game here with the Yankees.
They are trying to get Ellsbury and Lester from the Red Sox using the
Yankees as leverage. I suspect the Yankees know that and aren't biting. They
know the Red Sox have the cards to get Santana if they want him.
Dave Bismo
Oh, I know. I was just poking fun at Big Papi. I love the guy, love
the way he talks, but that quote about Pedro says it all :-)
I agree with Dano that if the rumored package is indeed Lester, Crisp,
Lowrie, and Masterson, then that's as far as I'd go. If Minnesota
said no, fine. If Minnesota got Hank to throw in Kennedy with Hughes,
great. If Minnesota takes it, great.
I think it's a fair package--a talented young pitcher who's shown
great character; a good pitching prospect; a good hitting prospect who
can be quite valuable if he can handle SS/2B; and a reasonably priced
Gold Glove-caliber CF who was once a good hitter. I know they want
Ellsbury instead of Crisp, but tough. They're still getting three
good prospects/youngsters who are or close to being MLB-ready, and if
they don't like Coco, they can always flip him to another team for
more prospects. I wouldn't budge from this if I were Epstein.
-Bismo.
Gnork
wrote:
Maybe. It would be a good thing for baseball as a whole if he signs a
new contract with the Twins at less than 20 mil per season.
Ray O'Hara
"Gnork" <gn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:adc054e8-a903-40c8...@x29g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
good for the owners you mean.
Cobb
"Ray O'Hara" <mary.p...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:TNWdnaupHuyui-3a...@rcn.net...
been to Fenway lately?
the Red Sox should kick in a percentage to keep him in Minnesota.
Cobb
no other offers? Who is going to match that? With the knowledge that the Red
Sox can trump any offer with Ellsbury?
They'll get off the pot soon unless they get any other late offers.
Ray O'Hara
"Cobb" <cob...@mailnet.com> wrote in message
news:ktVbj.79821$eh4.29930@trnddc03...
the owners harge the max they can get away with.
cut the sox payroll in half and the tix prices won't come down.
Ray O'Hara
> > I think it's a fair package--a talented young pitcher who's shown
> > great character; a good pitching prospect; a good hitting prospect who
> > can be quite valuable if he can handle SS/2B; and a reasonably priced
> > Gold Glove-caliber CF who was once a good hitter. I know they want
> > Ellsbury instead of Crisp, but tough. They're still getting three
> > good prospects/youngsters who are or close to being MLB-ready, and if
> > they don't like Coco, they can always flip him to another team for
> > more prospects. I wouldn't budge from this if I were Epstein.
> >
> > -Bismo.
> >
> Yeah. The Twins are nuts not to take that deal. And they're wondering
about
> no other offers? Who is going to match that? With the knowledge that the
Red
> Sox can trump any offer with Ellsbury?
> They'll get off the pot soon unless they get any other late offers.
>
>
there is plenty of time yet.
everybody is playing chicken.
the sox have the best hand. as far as a trade goes.
i think the yanks hope santana makes it to FA where they have the biggest
wallet
the twins have the weakest hand. they are going to lose santana no matter
what, but if they get too greedy they might end up with nothing.
the closer to the trade deadline things get the trickier it will get. and if
santana backs up his threat to veto any trades after the season starts they
are screwed.
it is the most fun hot stove story in a few years.
Gary
wrote:
Well, evidently, the proposed deal is Lester, Crisp, Masterson and
Lowie. Since I would have done the deal, relunctantly, with Ellsbury
instead of Lester, I would also do this deal. Evidently, Ellsbury is
out of the picture.
Gary
wrote:
Maybe, but he won't. I heard today that the Twins prefer to trade him
to a NL team, but he has told the Twins that he wants to stay in the
AL.
Gary
They already do, it's called revenue sharing and Luxury Tax.
hib3a...@yahoo.com
> On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 21:25:36 GMT, "Cobb" <cob...@mailnet.com> wrote:
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
The Twins are really up against the wall,because theres only 2 teams
that have both the prospects and the money to not only give them the
players they want aswell as meet the money demands that will be
required for a new contract.I don't think the EE has the balls to give
up all that young pitching.that the Twins want.The beauty of the
situation is that the EE are in al lose lose situation.They give up
all that talent for 1 guy or stand pat and the World champs just get
even better.With what the Tigers have done and as young as the Indians
are.The wild cards not likely coming out of the East for the next few
years.So the Sox just sit back andlet the Twins come to them
Jim Tiberio
"Ray O'Hara" <mary.p...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:TNWdnaupHuyui-3a...@rcn.net...
>
Yes, the owners! The only ones out there with any risk. Let the players
agree to full blown drug testing, performance clauses and non-guaranteed
contracts and maybe then they can complain about how much the owners might
make. Until then, farg 'em and that union jackass they rode in on. Go
bourgeoisie! Let the proletariat earn it!
Jim Tiberio
this team if they make no moves. If they can move Lugo with cash for a
prospect and get Lowrie in there I'd be happy but only if they are confident
in Lowrie at SS. I can live Lugo since I believe there has to be a bounce
back. I just wish he'd knock it off with that stupid stare and point when
he's aligning himself at the plate.
Gnork
Both the Angels and Dodgers have the resources and prospects to make a
strong offer if they were so inclined. Seattle also.
Pearly Soames
>
> Both the Angels and Dodgers have the resources and prospects to make a
> strong offer if they were so inclined. Seattle also.
And both have what the Twins really need, which is hitting. I don't
know why they are bothering with Yankee and Red Sock pitching prospects,
great as they are, when their own system is stocked with pitchers and
they need bats in their lineup.
--
"You are fools. It's a big joke. Rickey tricked everybody. Thank you all."
Cobb
Dave Bismo
<tom.ch...@charter.net> wrote:
>Gnork wrote:
>
>>
>> Both the Angels and Dodgers have the resources and prospects to make a
>> strong offer if they were so inclined. Seattle also.
>
>And both have what the Twins really need, which is hitting. I don't
>know why they are bothering with Yankee and Red Sock pitching prospects,
>great as they are, when their own system is stocked with pitchers and
>they need bats in their lineup.
Probably because the Red Sox, Yankees, and (technically and laughably)
the Mets are the only teams known to have made offers for Santana.
Also, the Twins' pitching prospects surely aren't on the level of
Buchholz/Hughes, and quite possibly not on the level of
Lester/Kennedy/Masterson either. (Plus, they traded away one of their
top young pitchers, Garza.) So if they're determined to trade Santana
and the teams with better hitting prospects aren't making offers, then
they may as well take a couple of top pitching prospects.
The Angels seem to be scared to death of ever giving up a good
prospect. I give up trying to figure that franchise out, especially
after they failed to land Miguel Cabrera. They have a rich owner,
room in their payroll, tons of attractive prospects, and a desperate
need for another bat, yet couldn't pull the trigger. I don't think
they "need" J.Santana as much as Cabrera, but they surely have the
resources to get him, without even hurting their big league roster.
Why they keep getting cold feet, I'll never know.
The Dodgers are tough to read. They were briefly linked to Bedard
rumors, but that seems to have died down. Like the Angels, they have
some surplus prospects. I'm sure they could dial up a package with
LaRoche, Ethier or Kemp, and some pitching prospects, but I'm not sure
they want to. They do have a pretty good rotation, with Penny, Lowe,
Billingsley, Kuroda, and Wells/Schmidt/Loaiza, so maybe they don't
want to go hog-wild over a starter (even one who'd clearly be their
ace). But yeah, I could see them jumping into the bidding.
Seattle also has some nice young talent. Adam Jones could be a
terrific long-term replacement for Hunter in CF--maybe not as
attractive an option as Ellsbury, but a better one for the Twins than
Crisp would be. Minnesota would have no use for the catching prospect
Clement, but Seattle has some other interesting prospects to dangle.
But they just threw a bunch of money at Silva, and I don't know how
big their budget is, so they may be content (foolishly or not) with
their rotation, and a tad gun-shy about dumping young players.
If I were the Twins, I'd be praying the Dodgers get in on the bidding,
or that the Mets panicked and made Jose Reyes. And frankly, I don't
think the Red Sox or Yanks would be too upset if Johan became Mr.
Torre's ace or Pedro's colleague either.
-Bismo.
Cobb
Yankees will have to cut their payroll in half first.
The owners charge what they must to make a profit. And evn then, many teams
lose money.
In Baseball, it's a question of competing with NY. That's where the main
money is with cable TV.
Cobb
They aren't biting because the cost is too high. The only reason the Red Sox
are in the hunt is because they will be in trouble if the Yankees get him.
The Santana price is ridiculous. This guy was 15-13 last year. But he will
easily win 20 in NY or Boston.
Dano
20 does not happen that often any more...nor is it that important. He will
likely solidify any staff he joins. No individual pitcher...player...can
make enough of a difference, IMO, to justify the cost and risk involved.
I really think there is just as much chance for this to blow up in any teams
face. Again...IF he were available as a free agent...then the contract he
is demanding might be worth it. I just don't feel that contract, combined
with the value of the players being demanded, is even close to being fair.
If anything, this demonstrates why you should be very reluctant to part with
good young players. While they won't ALL pan out...you need a bunch to
assure you will get a few winners who won't cost your team a fortune. I'm
NOT saying you shouldn't trade them...just don't trade them for players who
will cost FA money anyway.
Nina Jarvis
>They aren't biting because the cost is too high. The only reason the Red Sox
>are in the hunt is because they will be in trouble if the Yankees get him.
>
>The Santana price is ridiculous. This guy was 15-13 last year. But he will
>easily win 20 in NY or Boston.
>
That having been said some sports reports have it that the
price for Santana has been cut.
Cobb
"Nina Jarvis" <Don't bother send to usenet> wrote in message
news:0m28n3l5mpbgg7d2s...@4ax.com...
you mean reports out of NY? don't believe everything you hear. lots of games
being played.
Nina Jarvis
>> That having been said some sports reports have it that the
>> price for Santana has been cut.
>
>you mean reports out of NY? don't believe everything you hear. lots of games
>being played.
>
These were Boston sports reports.
Cobb
"Nina Jarvis" <Don't bother send to usenet> wrote in message
...by way of NY.
Check SOSH for updates from Minn.
Nina Jarvis
>...by way of NY.
>Check SOSH for updates from Minn.
>
What is an SOSH?
Cobb
"Nina Jarvis" <Don't bother send to usenet> wrote in message
sons of sam horn. red sox chat group. look it up on google.