Sox hitting problems...
Smithee
the Sox had end of last season. First, Ortiz is not hitting and
second, for some incomprehensible reason, Tito refuses to put the best
pure hitter on the team (Jason Bay) in the 3 or 4 slots.
My opinion is this -- put Bay 3rd, Ortiz 4th, and Youk fifth on a
daily basis. Bay would put a lot of pop back in the 3rd slot, and
Ortiz would start coming up more often with runners on base, which
would minmize the use of the shift against him. Youk could continue
to just drive the ball and not worry about the power requirements that
are intrinsic with a cleanup hitter.
Dano
> I'm surprised people are surprised. The issues are the same ones that
> the Sox had end of last season. First, Ortiz is not hitting and
> second, for some incomprehensible reason, Tito refuses to put the best
> pure hitter on the team (Jason Bay) in the 3 or 4 slots.
>
Who is surprised? Can I point out that a. we are one week into the
season...b. we played Tampa Bay, the Angels, and the A's...all three
serious contenders, all of whom have good pitching... and c. the hitters you
mention are obviously off to slow starts. Now...the real concern is of
course the age and physical condition of our two oldest hitters...of course.
But it's a bit early to panic too.
> My opinion is this -- put Bay 3rd, Ortiz 4th, and Youk fifth on a
> daily basis. Bay would put a lot of pop back in the 3rd slot, and
> Ortiz would start coming up more often with runners on base, which
> would minmize the use of the shift against him. Youk could continue
> to just drive the ball and not worry about the power requirements that
> are intrinsic with a cleanup hitter.
I don't think it's time to do that. You must give Papi time to pull out of
this funk. If he can't be counted on this year, they'll have more to worry
about than juggling the line up. Now is the time for Tito to show David he
believes in him, not time to bump him down in the order. You just don't do
that to the guy you depend on so heavily after a week long slump. You also
don't want him to start messing with his swing and his fundamentals. Just
go out there and do what comes natural to him. At least Youk is putting up
his own numbers. Papi can't possibly complain about the guy hitting in back
of him.
I'm a bit more worried about our pitching right now anyway. Myself? I'm
very happy it's Tito running this team right now. This sort of thing
requires calm, quiet leadership...not hellfire and brimstone.
S/B 954RR
"Smithee" <ssmit...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:80e15b9a-8900-432f...@n11g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
I don't know that Bay is the teams best pure hitter but I certainly think
him batting 3rd with Papi cleaning up is a good option.
Bob-Nob
Bay's career OBP: .376 (11% better than "league average")
Ortiz's career OBP: .382 (11% better than "league average")
Youkilis's career OBP: .388 (12% better than "league average")
Youkilis's career SLG: .477 (8% better than "league average")
Bay's career SLG: .518 (20% better than "league average")
Ortiz's career SLG: .553 (26% better than "league average")
Assuming that Ortiz hasn't declined especially, that Youkilis
hasn't improved especially (and these may be faulty assumptions),
by putting Bay 3rd, Ortiz 4th, and Youkilis 5th, you'd be...
(1) putting Bay, who derives more of his value (compared to
the other two) from his SLG in FRONT of the other two players
and
(2) putting Youkilis, who derives more of his value (compared
to the other two) from his OBP BEHING the other two players.
I'm not sure I agree with the idea. Youkilis is no Rickey
Henderson, but more of his value (compared to Bay or Ortiz)
comes from his ability to get on base than from his SLG,
and yet you'd have him batting behind the other two best
sluggers on the team. Bay is no Juan Gonzalez, but more
of his value (compared to the other two) comes from his
ability to advance runners (see high SLG) than from his
ability to get on base, and yet you'd have him batting
in front of the two better OBP guys. I don't think, at
first blush, that I agree with such an arrangement.
To be fair, I don't think it matters that much. My
ideal lineup would probably be something like:
Drew - Youkilis - Ortiz - Bay - Pedroia - Lowell - detritus
but I'm not especially fussed if those first five hitters
hit in some other order somewhere in the 1-6 slots. I
don't think it matters THAT much. I don't think your
idea is particularly bad, I just think there are things
about it which are suboptimal.
(That said, I've seen simulators which would suggest that
the best almost-envisionable lineup would have Pedroia
batting third and Ortiz batting fifth, based on last
year's numbers...)
Catch you later.
--Robert Machemer
--
Robert Paul Aubrey Machemer | For each time he falls, he shall
Amherst College, Math & Classics | rise again, and woe to the wicked!
Space Judge!!! | --Don Quixote (Man of La Mancha)
"He had everything a man could want: power, grace, and style..."
The Gnorkmeister
You don't move your best hitter down in the order. That is Youkilis.
Ortiz is really awful right now. We have to hope he gets it going
soon. His 2 out based loaded AB in the top of the 10th was a perfect
spot. Sadly, just another infield pop-up resulted. A 2-6 start with
terrible hitting, very bad starting pitching, and good relief pitching
is not going to get it.
It is time to go to 11 pitchers, add another hitter, and get Francona
to make more moves with the expanded bench. Jeff Bailey won't you
please come home?
bi...@ix.netcom.com
Yes Bobnob, I agree, I would not bat Youkilis 5th, I would consider
Pedroia 3rd though of course he too is not hitting so far, I think
they will all start hitting. For me if it came to a change, maybe I
would bat Ellsbury 9th for awhile, Youk lead off, Drew #2, Pedroia,
Ortiz clean up, Bay 5th. Of course I do not really believe it is a
major big deal for line ups, if they all start hitting or at least
some of them they will score.