Wow Randy Johnson 300
Christina
he is a great pitcher, today he won #300 for the Giants,
congratulations Randy Johnson! Ever since I was a young girl people
have said there will never be another 300 game winner or this one will
be the end of the era, then more of course keep getting it, Randy is
#24, Glavine, Maddux, Fat Billy, they all recently got it too, Mussina
could have come close but he retired. But now really there does not
seem to be any one on the horizon, it will be a long time until #25, I
wonder who it will be? Maybe some one not even playing now!
Dan C
Never gonna happen again. Today's starters are all pussies and often
can't even go the requisite 5 innings to get a decision, much less a win.
--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Ahhhhhhhh!: http://brandybuck.site40.net/pics/relieve.jpg
OceanView
news:phtg255fligloatg2...@4ax.com:
Absolutely. He can be quite an a-hole but 300 is quite an accomplishment.
Think of it as wining 20 games 15 times!
--
-------
We need an energy bill that encourages consumption. - George Bush
Ray Garraty
I don't know why people don't like him. He put his family and his
privacy ahead of everything else, I think that's honorable.
He was surly to the press; who gives a shit? I happen to like guys
like him and Jeff Kent. 100% effort and no ass kissing.
Throws like Mary
That's silly, I just wish he was still with the Yankees. I miss that
Big Eunuch.
Tristan daCunha
day over 200!
Ya' think?
bi...@ix.netcom.com
Yes Ray, on some level I respect both of them too, they are no
nonsense guys, they do their job, not all the players hbave to be
quote machine's for the press. I have read many things recently of
Johnson, it is interesting that in a way he is some what under rated!
Posnanski had a blog about Johnson, he talked about how under rated
Johnson is, he is over shadowed by Pedro and Maddux but his prime
years actually were VERY close to their domination, the numbers are
pretty surprising! So if you add that plus his longevity, Johnson
really is one of the true alltime greats! For lefties really it might
only be Grove ahead of him, you could argue that Johnson's peak was as
good as Koufax plus he pitched much longer, also his career totals are
not far off Spahn and Carlton but he was better in the peak!
Lookout
Add in he pitched in smaller parks, on a higher mound, with better
nutrition and medical help, a diluted league, with relief pitching,
and a smaller strike zone.
Well..when you do that he doesn't look so good now, does he?
Throws like Mary
Koufax and Grove were 6'-2 and 6'-3" respectively. The Eunuch has a
huge mechanical advantage.
Ron Johnson
It's tough to compare Koufax and Johnson because we have no idea
whether Johnson would have survived Koufax's workload. Nor
do we know if Koufax would have pitched better with a reduced
workload.
It's worth noting that in the context of their day Johnson was worked
harder. Koufax led the league in IP twice. So did Johnson. But
Johnson also was second 3 times, 3rd once, 4th twice and 5th once.
Koufax was 3rd once and 4th once.
In other words, no way Koufax piles up the innings he did in his
peak. And given the changes in rules (strike zone and mound)
it's exceedingly unlikely Koufax would compile the same
Dodger stadium stats.
1962-1966 Home
G IP W L H K BB ERA CG SHO
Tot 86 716 57 15 446 754 142 1.37 57 23
Don't get me wrong. It counts. But this is a case where a
player's skill set perfectly matched the rules at the time.
In particular the strike zone. Koufax had a devastating high
fastball. It'd be called a ball today. But from 1963-66 he had
a pitch that was almost unhittable and would be called a strike
if the batter took it.
Koufax pitched about 10% more innings than Johnson did in
their respective 5 best season. Johnson had better rate
stats. Overall Koufax has a bit more value in the prime
(2 wins in 5 years) and Johnson buries him outside of the
prime.
McDuck
I consider RJ to be one of the top 5 of all time. A truly great
pitcher. And, to his credit, he was lousy with NYY.
Ron Johnson
Yes. Which makes his raw stats look worse.
> on a higher mound,
Nonsense. Koufax pitched on a mound that was disallowed by the
rule changes of 1969.
You had to mount expeditions to climb the damned things.
> with better nutrition
potentially. Though I'm doubtful when you're talking specifically
Koufax and Johnson.
> and medical help,
A biggy. Koufax's doctors would go to jail today if they treated
him the way he was treated in the 60s. That's not hyperbole by
the way.
No way of knowing if medical advances would have extended Koufax's
career though.
What might have helped is a more sane attitude. These days a
veteran pitcher coming offer a sore arm is treated gently in
spring training. In his first spring training start of 1966
the Dodgers had Koufax go the distance even though he
was pitching in pain. They didn't want a 7 inning pitcher.
(This start was a factor in Koufax's decision to retire a
year later)
Myself I'd settle for 7 inning of greatness if that's all
he could give.
> a diluted league,
Doubtful. The supply of players has expanded more than enough
to cover the greater number of teams.
> with relief pitching,
The Dodgers generally had an excellent bullpen. Simply
didn't use it the way today's is. Most specifically
they'd rather save (say) Perranoski for a lesser
starter and let Koufax finish whenever it was
convenient. (Nor did they use their relief ace
as a save accumulator.)
Here again, in the context of the day Johnson's a heavily
work pitcher. 4 times he's led the league in complete games.
Koufax only did so twice.
> and a smaller strike zone.
Which inflates offensive production. And the specific
changes to the strike zone in 1963 could have been
specifically designed for Koufax. Only an extreme
power pitcher (like Koufax) can pitch upstairs on
a regular basis. For most pitchers it has to be a
surprise.
Jim Bouton mentions this in passing in Ball Four.
They had a scouting report on Tim McCarver that
said he couldn't hit the high fastball. Turns out
he had no problem with the high fastball, he just
couldn't hit Koufax's.
>
> Well..when you do that he doesn't look so good now, does he?
Don't see why you'd say that. If Johnson got to
pitch in the same conditions as Koufax he'd have
turned in the same level of eye-popping numbers.
Assuming he could have handled the workload.
bi...@ix.netcom.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks Ron, that is great info as usual, Koufax is a very interesting
pitcher to me, there is much to be said on both sides with him, he is
also so hard to rank. For me I would have to take Johnson just cause
as you say he was relatively close in the peak and so much better
beyond it for thewhole career.
Mortimer
Congratulations to the Big Unit, Randy Johnson for that incredible
accomplishment. He's arguably, one of the greatest starting LHP that
ever graced the major league baseball field.