Kolb - least popular brave ever?
Colin William
general cluelessness, and annoying comments that may well render him the
least-liked Brave of the last 15 years.
Is anyone else a serious contender? Bret Boone might be the next, at least
around here, but he wasn't quite as miserable a performer as Kolb. Keith
Lockhart elicited some annoyance, but it wasn't so much dislike of Lockhart
as dislike of his playing time. Even the post-SI rocker had his defenders
(and at least he kept pitching well as a Brave).
Am I forgetting anybody?
Colin
Tarkus
> I think he might be.
I would be hard pressed to come up with a better choice.
--
Braves group at Last.fm: http://www.last.fm/group/Atlanta%2BBraves
Now playing: "Howard Stern - 09-29-2005 Show part 01 "
Jon Richardson
> On 9/29/2005 11:12:23 AM, Colin William wrote:
>
>
>>I think he might be.
>
>
> I would be hard pressed to come up with a better choice.
There was some pretty harsh vitriol for Terry Pendleton in 1996, but
that was more directed at the re-acquisition and playing time than at TP
himself. Reggie Sanders made himself no friends, but he also wasn't
actively burning bridges.
I don't think Brian Jordan was ever really liked, but I also don't think
he was ever disliked either. Most people were just "Isn't there a
better option out there?".
Kolb does seem to be way out in the lead on this one.
Jon
dave clark
both boone and lockhart were able to pull some productive
outcome-determinative ABs out of their asses once in a while. i mean,
had kevin mcglinchy not imploded in shea stadium, keith's hit would
have sent the braves to the '99 world series.
can you name the last time dan kolb REALLY seemed to help this team? i
remember a particularly good inning in philly before the ASB when the
braves were down big in the standings, but that's really it for a long
time. the truly useless players on the team- jordan, perez- at least
SEEM like they've turned their efforts to helping the squad with the
bullshit clubhouse-leader stuff. dan kolb, meanwhile, acts like it's
that time of the month continuously. instead of bucking the fuck up and
doing well in less IP and a lesser role, kolb's managed to screw that
up to the point where, as i've said before, he couldn't get out
colorado's AAAA lineup in a meaningless game.
i think kenny lofton would have to be up there too, despite a decent
year (333/409/428). it was a perceived "attitude" plus his comments
about cox on the way out the door that sealed his fate.
charles shelton
"Colin William" <colint...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3q2pbtF...@individual.net...
does don sutton count?
-charles
dave clark
they weren't particularly bad per se...instead they suffered from a
combination of bad memories over wohlers' '96 WS meltdown and the
appearance of continual implosion against teams chasing atlanta in the
standings (the mets, particularly).
Tarkus
> i think kenny lofton would have to be up there too, despite a decent
> year (333/409/428). it was a perceived "attitude" plus his comments
> about cox on the way out the door that sealed his fate.
I was just about to bring his name up. He has been hated far more than
he should have been. David Justice has also gotten a bad rap from Braves
fans.
--
"I've been a lot of places. But I'm always a Brave and will always be a
Brave. This is where my heart will always be." - David Justice
Nick Beaudrot
But for the most part, all the players mentioned aside from Kolb had
their defenders in the press. Kolb has no such defenders.
Cheers,
Nicholas
--
All of us might wish at times that we lived in a more tranquil world, but we
don't. And if our times are difficult and perplexing, so are they challenging
and filled with opportunity.
-Bobby Kennedy
Jon Richardson
> On 9/29/2005 11:35:02 AM, dave clark wrote:
>
>
>>i think kenny lofton would have to be up there too, despite a decent
>>year (333/409/428). it was a perceived "attitude" plus his comments
>>about cox on the way out the door that sealed his fate.
>
>
> I was just about to bring his name up. He has been hated far more than
> he should have been. David Justice has also gotten a bad rap from Braves
> fans.
I never really understood the Lofton hatred. I thought it was because
the Braves traded Justice to get him, but Justice wasn't *that* popular.
I think people (the mediots especially) expected Rickey Henderson
circa 1982 to be in CF for the Braves.
Dave Justice seemed to be in a lose-lose situation by the end of his
Atlanta tenure. He was treated harshly, but he also didn't do much to
win fans over (besides Game 6 of 1995 that is)
Jon
Colin William
"Tarkus" <karn...@beer.com> wrote
> I was just about to bring his name up. He has been hated far more than
> he should have been. David Justice has also gotten a bad rap from Braves
> fans.
Yeah, they're in the category of widely disliked, despite performing well.
But still not in Kolb's league.
Colin
bgs
news:1128018902.4...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
: (note: this is of no statistical relevance.)
:
: both boone and lockhart were able to pull some productive
: outcome-determinative ABs out of their asses once in a while. i mean,
: had kevin mcglinchy not imploded in shea stadium, keith's hit would
: have sent the braves to the '99 world series.
:
: can you name the last time dan kolb REALLY seemed to help this team? i
I think it was the day before my birthday, 12/11/2004. It's been downhill
since.
--Scott
Colin William
"Jon Richardson" <jonric...@rogers.com> wrote
> I never really understood the Lofton hatred. I thought it was because the
> Braves traded Justice to get him, but Justice wasn't *that* popular. I
> think people (the mediots especially) expected Rickey Henderson circa 1982
> to be in CF for the Braves.
Braves fans' expected the sparkplug who drove them crazy in the 1995 Series.
(Of course, for the whole series hit pretty poorly, so what did they know.)
What they got was a guy who was acquired for the popular Grissom, then was
injured much of the season, quite grumpy, played a circuitous center field,
and was atrocious at stealing bases. So even a 333 BA (forget the OBP, which
Joe Fan mostly ignored) couldn't offset the feel that he was a
disappointment.
Colin
Colin William
"dave clark" <David...@gmail.com> wrote
][> can you name the last time dan kolb REALLY seemed to help this team? i
He managed a fairly decent run in July/August, mostly in mop-up, I think.
Got his ERA down to a fairly mediocre 4.69. And that was that.
Colin
Craig Nance
I think his reaction his failure is what puts him over the top.
Unless the press has portrayed him inaccurately (which is I suppose
possible), the impression you get is of a player who has confronted
failure with the attitude of a resentful, sulking child. He made a
couple of comments sometime during the season to the effect that he
wasn't the only one who wasn't pitching well that I thought were
guaranteed to generate bad feelings towards him. I suspect that he
doesn't have many friends in the clubhouse.
I think Raul Mondesi was about as big of a disaster for the time he
was here, but he didn't seem to make many comments to the press, so
fan resentment towards him personally didn't build up quite as
quickly. Then the Braves cut their losses, which they probably should
do now with Kolb.
Dick Sidbury
Everybody was upset about how he let the team down just before the playoffs.
dick
-- but he had been pretty popular before that so it's not really a fair
comparison.
dave clark
by the time august rolled around, IIRC, klobb was letting *other guys'*
runners score rather than his own...
poco
>
> Am I forgetting anybody?
>
Dave Gallagher. I guess people were more annoyed that Klesko wasn't
getting enough ABs, but Kolb isn't appearing in 89 games, stunting a
good young player's growth either.
For kicks, here is the 94 DT entry on Gallagher.
DAVE GALLAGHER 1961 OF
1990 CWS 75 21 2 1 0 3 0 1 55 .241 7 .280 .308
.333
1990 BAL 51 11 1 0 0 4 1 1 41 .188 3 .216 .273
.235
1991 CAL 272 82 8 1 3 25 3 5 195 .278 38 .301 .360
.371
1992 NYM 178 43 15 1 1 21 3 5 140 .251 21 .242 .322
.354
1992 TID 12 3 0 0 0 3 0 1 10 .236 1 .250 .400
.250
1993 NYM 201 50 13 1 6 20 1 1 152 .272 28 .249 .317
.413
1994 ATL 151 31 4 0 2 22 0 2 122 .216 13 .205 .306
.272
-----------------------------------------------------------------
MAJORS 928 238 43 4 12 95 8 15 705 .255 109 .256 .326
.350
MINORS 12 3 0 0 0 3 0 1 10 .236 1 .250 .400
.250
TOTAL 940 241 43 4 12 98 8 16 715 .254 111 .256 .327
.349
EDR: A waste of 151 AB. Not particularily good as "Ryan Klesko's Legs".
Jarvis Brown should sue for Gallagher's 1994 pension time. Tony Tarasco
should sue for Gallagher's 1994 salary. Fortunately, no word that he'll
be back in Atlanta this year...yet.
DS: Gallagher was picked up by Schurhoelz as a result of compromising
photos. Actually, Bobby Cox was delighted to get the veteran hitter, for
typical reasons. Even though Tarasco was younger, cheaper, a better
hitter, and a better outfielder, Tarasco was *left-handed*, and
therefore not an option against left-handed pitching. Gallagher, though
30-something, an indifferent fielder with a Belliard Bat, was
*right-handed*, and therefore must hit against left-handed pitching. So
Gallagher took 175 plate appearances away from more deserving players,
while batting 224/326/296 in a juiced year against the opposite side.
This entry on Klesk gave chuckles though
RYAN KLESKO 1971 OF
1990 SUM 236 60 8 1 10 20 5 1 177 .277 34 .254 .312
.424
1990 DUR 295 63 12 1 7 23 5 3 235 .227 27 .214 .270
.332
1991 GRN 430 102 17 2 15 60 9 10 338 .268 60 .237 .331
.391
1992 RIC 420 93 21 1 15 37 2 4 331 .247 48 .221 .284
.383
1992 ATL 14 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 14 **** -2 .000 .000
.000
1993 RIC 344 81 12 1 18 43 3 2 265 .278 51 .235 .320
.433
1993 ATL 17 5 1 0 2 3 0 0 12 .374 5 .294 .400
.706
1994 ATL 243 62 14 2 15 27 1 0 181 .305 44 .255 .330
.514
-----------------------------------------------------------------
MAJORS 274 67 15 2 17 30 1 0 207 .297 47 .245 .319
.500
MINORS 1725 399 70 6 65 183 24 20 1346 .260 220 .231 .305
.392
TOTAL 1999 466 85 8 82 213 25 20 1553 .265 267 .233 .307
.407
EDR: He can crush the ball. Could probably still hit HR even if he used
Dave Gallagher as the bat. LF was an adventure. Rumored to be highly in
demand by other ML teams, often in exchange for a "real" outfielder or a
"relief ace". Personally, I expect to see Klesko at 1B in 1996.
Granted, it was a strike year, but it was the only year season ended
without Braves in the 1st place.
Unclaimed Mysteries
> "Colin William" <colint...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:3q2pbtF...@individual.net:
>
>
>>Am I forgetting anybody?
>>
>
>
> Dave Gallagher.
Some said that when he got on a hot streak, it was like the ball was as
big as a watermelon.
--
It Came From C. L. Smith's Unclaimed Mysteries.
http://www.unclaimedmysteries.net
The Julio Franco of rsfc.
Robert Glenn Plotner
"Colin William" <colint...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3q2pbtF...@individual.net...
> Am I forgetting anybody?
>
Frank Tepedino. Hands down. Nobody was ever more reviled than Frank
Tepedino.
Colin William
> colin-
>
> by the time august rolled around, IIRC, klobb was letting *other guys'*
> runners score rather than his own...
there is that, though I was surprised recently to see he wasn't in the top
20 of letting inherited runners score. Lack of opportunity, I suppose.
Colin
Colin William
"Craig Nance" <CNan...@hotmail.com> wrote
> I think his reaction his failure is what puts him over the top.
> Unless the press has portrayed him inaccurately (which is I suppose
> possible), the impression you get is of a player who has confronted
> failure with the attitude of a resentful, sulking child. He made a
> couple of comments sometime during the season to the effect that he
> wasn't the only one who wasn't pitching well that I thought were
> guaranteed to generate bad feelings towards him. I suspect that he
> doesn't have many friends in the clubhouse.
Yeah, his attitude is what made him genuinely unlikeable. The braves have
had plenty of sucky pitching performances over the years (though one might
be hard-pressed to find any reliever who posted a 5.81 ERA and stayed on the
roster the entire season), but they didn't generate the antipathy that Kolb
has.
> I think Raul Mondesi was about as big of a disaster for the time he
> was here, but he didn't seem to make many comments to the press, so
> fan resentment towards him personally didn't build up quite as
> quickly. Then the Braves cut their losses, which they probably should
> do now with Kolb.
Mondesi seemed to go pretty quietly, when all was said and done. Had Kolb
been Mondesi, we'd have likely gotten, "Jordan's sucking too, wah!" and "I
don't care about getting in the hole 0-2, because I still can hit into a
double play on that third pitch."
colin
colin
Colin William
"poco" <m...@fake.address> wrote
> Dave Gallagher. I guess people were more annoyed that Klesko wasn't
> getting enough ABs, but Kolb isn't appearing in 89 games, stunting a
> good young player's growth either.
True, Gallagher wasn't popular; but still, he didn't have the obnoxiousness
factor that Kolb has had.
> EDR: He can crush the ball. Could probably still hit HR even if he used
> Dave Gallagher as the bat.
Hah hah hah hah hah.
Colin
bdavis
bdavis
stomach. Greg McMichael wasn't much better out of the pen.
Dick Sidbury
> I don't know about you, but Brad Klontz was pretty hard for me to
> stomach. Greg McMichael wasn't much better out of the pen.
>
than in pitches. And I don't recall him bitching in public about how he
was treated. Was Klontz ever the closer?
dick
Colin William
"bdavis" <b4d...@bellsouth.net> wrote
>I don't know about you, but Brad Klontz was pretty hard for me to
> stomach. Greg McMichael wasn't much better out of the pen.
Then you weren't paying attention.
Clontz:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/clontbr01.shtml
He was useful for Atlanta in his rookie season, then after struggling in
1996 he was effective again in 1997; however, he did in his later time and
in his post-Braves time get the Kolb Award for general obnoxiousness
McMichael pitched extremely well for Atlanta:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/mcmicgr01.shtml
His rookie season he gave us 90+ innings of 2.06 ball, and took over down
the stretch as closer after Stanton flamed out. Now, one might hold against
him his rough postseason stats, but that rookie season performance was a
hige difference in helping the Braves beat the giants in the greatest
pennant race of the Braves' run. Overall he posted a 2.86 ERA over his 4
year run in Atlanta (2.94 including his brief comeback stint in 2000).
Colin