Chowdown at Beijing's Big Mouth Corral
Fran
salutary reminder in these days of first world plenty. Michael Phelps'
12000-calorie-per-day effort represents a sufficient number of
calories to keep roughly 20 people in modest good health.
Here's what he eats each day:
|||
(No, he doesn’t choose among these options. He eats them all,
according to the Post.)
Breakfast: Three fried-egg sandwiches loaded with cheese, lettuce,
tomatoes, fried onions and mayonnaise. Two cups of coffee. One five-
egg omelet. One bowl of grits. Three slices of French toast topped
with powdered sugar. Three chocolate-chip pancakes.
Lunch: One pound of enriched pasta. Two large ham and cheese
sandwiches with mayo on white bread. Energy drinks packing 1,000
calories.
Dinner: One pound of pasta. An entire pizza. More energy drinks.
http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/08/13/the-michael-phelps-diet-dont-try-it-at-home/
|||
Apparently it really does take a village to raise a child, a town to
feed an athlete and a world to feed an Olympics.
The article he suggested recommended a post-swimming career in what
the Americans call "Major League Eating". I kid you not.
Competitive food consumption. People who read my posts know that when
I get something like this, I like to hammer it for all it's worth, but
in this case, I think it speaks for itself.
It would be easy to sneer of course, but these are finely trained
athletes. Just to qualify for competition you have to be able to chomp
your way through more calories in 3 minutes than an African village of
100 would see in a year.
The training would be killing for us mere mortals, but for these
superbly bloated athletes it's all in a day's feed. Like all real
competitors, by the time the competition starts, they have had a
gutful and are desperate to sink their teeth into just about anything.
It's all on cable TV apparently, and in a country where 45% are
clinically obese, one can but admire the fabulous job these food
guzzlers are doing mopping up the excess food lying about.
I did have one worry though. With all this talk about corn to ethanol,
would it not have been better to convert the entire feedstock for this
competition to ethanol? On my calculations, there would have been
enough to run an Abrams tank from the Green Zone in Baghdad down to
the shops for ciggies, milk and the paper and back -- no problems.
In this carbon-constrained world we are entering, these things are
worth considering.
Fran
Bill Ward
Note that in Fran's self-parody, she shows no interest in helping starving
people feed themselves. That's left for those nasty capitalists who try
to feed those that communists have starved. She's only interested in
making sure no one has more food than she thinks appropriate.
Comes the Revolution, Fran will be right there, ensuring you eat only what
she approves. Somehow she reminds me of the Seinfeld episode: "No soup
for you!"
But at least the Soup Nazi was a small businessman who did feed people who
followed his rules.
Fran
> On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:32:05 -0700, Fran wrote:
> > The news of the gold medal record smashing Michael Phelps diet was a
> > salutary reminder in these days of first world plenty. Michael Phelps'
> > 12000-calorie-per-day effort represents a sufficient number of calories to
> > keep roughly 20 people in modest good health.
>
> > Here's what he eats each day:
>
> > (No, he doesn’t choose among these options. He eats them all, according
> > to the Post.)
>
> > Breakfast: Three fried-egg sandwiches loaded with cheese, lettuce,
> > tomatoes, fried onions and mayonnaise. Two cups of coffee. One five- egg
> > omelet. One bowl of grits. Three slices of French toast topped with
> > powdered sugar. Three chocolate-chip pancakes.
>
> > Lunch: One pound of enriched pasta. Two large ham and cheese sandwiches
> > with mayo on white bread. Energy drinks packing 1,000 calories.
>
> > Dinner: One pound of pasta. An entire pizza. More energy drinks.
>
She is interested in exposing the hypocrisy that attends elitism,
including in sport. Billions of people who live on meagre rations are
invited to cheer for someone whose consumption is geared entirely to
an activity which, at best, is for entertaining people who for the
most part are a lot richer than they are.
> Comes the Revolution, Fran will be right there, ensuring you eat only what
> she approves. Somehow she reminds me of the Seinfeld episode: "No soup
> for you!"
>
Au contraire. If I have have any say in it, it will be fair shares for
all.
It's often said, possibly unfairly, that Americans don't do irony.
Bill Ward wants to celebrate a competition which in its structure, and
reward systems looks like nothing so much as an extended Nazi rally.
What is the Olympic Games if not a celebration of the Übermensch (and
maybe Übermädchen)? That whole torch relay thing was a Nazi
innovation. And yet he brings up Nazis ... Freudian slip? Maybe ...
> But at least the Soup Nazi was a small businessman who did feed people who
> followed his rules
The soup nazi was a parody of those clubs which admit only those from
the right crowd.
Fran
Tom Gardner
"Fran" <Fran...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4895de37-b765-4d6b...@l33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
The news of the gold medal record smashing Michael Phelps diet was a
salutary reminder in these days of first world plenty. Michael Phelps'
12000-calorie-per-day effort represents a sufficient number of
calories to keep roughly 20 people in modest good health.
YES! We need wealth redistribution so that everyone is equal and gets an equal
share!
Bill Ward
Exactly. Someone else brings the food and you divvy it up. How noble and
caring of you.
> It's often said, possibly unfairly, that Americans don't do irony. Bill
> Ward wants to celebrate a competition which in its structure, and reward
> systems looks like nothing so much as an extended Nazi rally. What is
> the Olympic Games if not a celebration of the Übermensch (and maybe
> Übermädchen)? That whole torch relay thing was a Nazi innovation. And
> yet he brings up Nazis ... Freudian slip? Maybe ...
>
>
>> But at least the Soup Nazi was a small businessman who did feed people
>> who followed his rules
>
>
> The soup nazi was a parody of those clubs which admit only those from
> the right crowd.
To you, maybe. But individuals see things from different perspectives,
unlike communist worker pawns, forced into groupthink. Be glad you live
in a society that still tolerates differences. Ironically, I don't think
you'd last long in the kind you're touting.
Tom Gardner
"Bill Ward" <bw...@REMOVETHISix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2008.08.22...@REMOVETHISix.netcom.com...
<snip>
> Exactly. Someone else brings the food and you divvy it up. How noble and
> caring of you.
> To you, maybe. But individuals see things from different perspectives,
> unlike communist worker pawns, forced into groupthink. Be glad you live
> in a society that still tolerates differences. Ironically, I don't think
> you'd last long in the kind you're touting.
>
But, you've got to hand it to Frannie, she's consistent. Clueless as to
economics, philosophy, sociology, theology and mathematics but has conviction.
I wonder how she, or anybody can be so "in-the-box"? I wonder why the Good Lord
is so stingy with even small epiphanies?
nofar...@gmail.com
> The news of the gold medal record smashing Michael Phelps diet was a
> salutary reminder in these days of first world plenty. Michael Phelps'
> 12000-calorie-per-day effort represents a sufficient number of
> calories to keep roughly 20 people in modest good health.
>
arse shuffling paper, on 600 calories?
Tell us how you get on.
HD
"Tom Gardner" <tom(spamless)@ohiobrush.com> wrote in message
news:e4srk.20466$uE5....@flpi144.ffdc.sbc.com...
Fran
I've managed on about that for a couple of weeks. Ran a part of an
athletics carnival in the middle of it.
Of course, it's not as if Phelps is doing anything useful
Fran
Rich
Look how well it worked in Russia and China.
The problem is, communism destroys all the wealth, then produces little
food (but lots and lots of tanks), and the people live in borderline
starvation. What a wonderful world Fran has for us.
Cheers,
Rich
Rich
[...]
> She is interested in exposing the hypocrisy that attends elitism,
> including in sport. Billions of people who live on meagre rations are
> invited to cheer for someone whose consumption is geared entirely to
> an activity which, at best, is for entertaining people who for the
> most part are a lot richer than they are.
And why do they live on "meagre rations" Fran?
Would their ration be more if said athlete's ate less?
>> Comes the Revolution, Fran will be right there, ensuring you eat only what
>> she approves. Somehow she reminds me of the Seinfeld episode: "No soup
>> for you!"
>
> Au contraire. If I have have any say in it, it will be fair shares for
> all.
Since communism's been the Chinese system for a long long time, the Chinese
should all be well fed, right?
I note that she says "fair share" and not equal share. And guess who
decides what is fair?
> It's often said, possibly unfairly, that Americans don't do irony.
If so they have lots of company.
> Bill Ward wants to celebrate a competition which in its structure, and
> reward systems looks like nothing so much as an extended Nazi rally.
You would know all about that.
But for those of us who don't, please show why Godwin's law has not been
invoked.
> What is the Olympic Games if not a celebration of the Übermensch (and
> maybe Übermädchen)?
It's a competition Fran.
> That whole torch relay thing was a Nazi
> innovation. And yet he brings up Nazis ... Freudian slip? Maybe ...
So was the countdown for rocket launches, the rocket, and the jet plane.
So what?
>> But at least the Soup Nazi was a small businessman who did feed people who
>> followed his rules
>
> The soup nazi was a parody of those clubs which admit only those from
> the right crowd.
So does communism Fran, but their convert or die methods are pretty
effective at getting converts.
Cheers,
Rich
> Fran
Peter Franks
Wow. So this is how one starts the slide to totalitarianism.
If that is how you choose to live your life, so be it, but leave me out
of your absolute-control-of-everything decline.
Peter Franks
What a rotten attitude.
<robot voice>"All humanoids must only do what is strictly and entirely
useful. Beep. Beep."</robot voice>
Rich
> Fran wrote:
>> On Aug 22, 5:35 pm, nofarken...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Aug 22, 10:32 am, Fran <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:> The news of
>>> the gold medal record smashing Michael Phelps diet was a
>>>> salutary reminder in these days of first world plenty. Michael Phelps'
>>>> 12000-calorie-per-day effort represents a sufficient number of
>>>> calories to keep roughly 20 people in modest good health.
>>> Have you tried living an ACTIVE life, ie WORKING, not sitting on your
>>> arse shuffling paper, on 600 calories?
>>>
>>
>> I've managed on about that for a couple of weeks. Ran a part of an
>> athletics carnival in the middle of it.
>>
>>
>> Of course, it's not as if Phelps is doing anything useful
>
> What a rotten attitude.
Communists refer to people as "workers", that's their role and they'd
better not stop out of it. The communist elite don't work of course,
they are the deciders. They upstaged poor GWB by 50 years on this.
But inspire of Fran's claims, communism has always seen the Olympics
as worthwhile for propaganda purposes.
> <robot voice>"All humanoids must only do what is strictly and entirely
> useful. Beep. Beep."</robot voice>
Useful according to Fran of course. :-)
Cheers,
Rich
Cat_in_awe
I'm not sure if Tom is being ironic or not, but it reminds me of a quote
from someone in Soviet Russia.
"They pretend to pay us and we pretend to work."
When your income is unrelated to your work effort, (Fran hands out the "fair
shares"), all incentives to work hard evaporate.
Communists have always wanted to seize the production of capitalism while
destroying capitalism at the same time, always failing to realise that when
they destroy capitalism, the products disappear.
Ouroboros_Rex
Pathetic whining liar Bill Ward once again shows his ass worldwide. lol
Ouroboros_Rex
Pathetic whining liar Bill Ward once again shows his ass worldwide. lol
Ouroboros_Rex
> "Bill Ward" <bw...@REMOVETHISix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:pan.2008.08.22...@REMOVETHISix.netcom.com...
>
> <snip>
>> Exactly. Someone else brings the food and you divvy it up. How
>> noble and caring of you.
>
>> To you, maybe. But individuals see things from different
>> perspectives, unlike communist worker pawns, forced into groupthink.
>> Be glad you live in a society that still tolerates differences.
>> Ironically, I don't think you'd last long in the kind you're touting.
>>
>
> But, you've got to hand it to Frannie, she's consistent. Clueless as
> to economics, philosophy, sociology, theology and mathematics
How come Tom Gardner always lies? lol
Ouroboros_Rex
Poor rich once again struts his 70 IQ in his endless search for attention.
lol
Poetic Justice
that one person works swinging a sledge hammer all day whilst another
works swinging a pencil all day?
"Modest health" is not sufficient to perform extreme jobs like Life
Guards and firefighting.
Do we abandon those jobs?
Rich
Yeah, but they made up for that by buying from the black market. :-)
Cheers,
Rich
Rich
Is he? God only wants a tithe, socialists want everything you make.
Cheers,
Rich
Ouroboros_Rex
It's funny watching you boys make your third grade arguments so excitedly
over nothing at all. lol
Ouroboros_Rex
If you're a desperate k00k like you are, maybe. lol
Poetic Justice
> Fran wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>> She is interested in exposing the hypocrisy that attends elitism,
>> including in sport. Billions of people who live on meagre rations are
>> invited to cheer for someone whose consumption is geared entirely to
>> an activity which, at best, is for entertaining people who for the
>> most part are a lot richer than they are.
>
> And why do they live on "meagre rations" Fran?
>
> Would their ration be more if said athlete's ate less?
>
>>> Comes the Revolution, Fran will be right there, ensuring you eat only
>>> what
>>> she approves. Somehow she reminds me of the Seinfeld episode: "No soup
>>> for you!"
>>
>> all.
>
> Since communism's been the Chinese system for a long long time, the Chinese
> should all be well fed, right?
>
There are no GAY Iranians and there are no starving Communists.
I notice the Iranians haven't deported any Gays so where did they end up?
Probably the same place starving Communists wind up, huh.
Bill Ward
The "killing the golden goose" story goes way back. But some never learn.
James
Fran
What is this rationalization? Fascist or communist?
Rich
[...]
> She is interested in exposing the hypocrisy that attends elitism,
> including in sport.
How much does she donate to feed the poor in 3rd world countries?
> Billions of people who live on meagre rations are
> invited to cheer for someone
They are invited? Where? How? They watch or not, as they choose.
> whose consumption is geared entirely to
> an activity which, at best, is for entertaining people who for the
> most part are a lot richer than they are.
If they have televisions in the first place, what's the difference
between this and normal viewing?
Cheers,
Rich
Ouroboros_Rex
lol Poor rich-man hasn't been reading his Bible.
Ouroboros_Rex
poor rich - delusions of content are about all he has left. lol
nofar...@gmail.com
> On Aug 22, 5:35 pm, nofarken...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > On Aug 22, 10:32 am, Fran <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:> The news of the gold medal record smashing Michael Phelps diet was a
> > > salutary reminder in these days of first world plenty. Michael Phelps'
> > > 12000-calorie-per-day effort represents a sufficient number of
> > > calories to keep roughly 20 people in modest good health.
>
> > Have you tried living an ACTIVE life, ie WORKING, not sitting on your
> > arse shuffling paper, on 600 calories?
>
> I've managed on about that for a couple of weeks.
If you did, you would have lost a shitload of weight.
Ran a part of an
> athletics carnival in the middle of it.
>
Sure you did. My nostrils detect bullshit.
> Of course, it's not as if Phelps is doing anything useful
>
And you are more useful?
nofar...@gmail.com
Dog.com> wrote:
> nofarken...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Aug 22, 10:32 am, Fran <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> The news of the gold medal record smashing Michael Phelps diet was a
> >> salutary reminder in these days of first world plenty. Michael Phelps'
> >> 12000-calorie-per-day effort represents a sufficient number of
> >> calories to keep roughly 20 people in modest good health.
>
> > Have you tried living an ACTIVE life, ie WORKING, not sitting on your
> > arse shuffling paper, on 600 calories?
>
> > Tell us how you get on.
>
> SO when we divide that 12,000 calories between 20 people, do you allow
> that one person works swinging a sledge hammer all day whilst another
> works swinging a pencil all day?
>
> "Modest health" is not sufficient to perform extreme jobs like Life
> Guards and firefighting.
Modest health? As if such a situation would be worth anything.
Bill Ward
Doesn't really matter. They're two sides of the same coin.
Fran
> > On Aug 22, 10:32 am, Fran <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> The news of the gold medal record smashing Michael Phelps diet was a
> >> salutary reminder in these days of first world plenty. Michael Phelps'
> >> 12000-calorie-per-day effort represents a sufficient number of
> >> calories to keep roughly 20 people in modest good health.
>
> > Have you tried living an ACTIVE life, ie WORKING, not sitting on your
> > arse shuffling paper, on 600 calories?
>
> > Tell us how you get on.
>
> SO when we divide that 12,000 calories between 20 people, do you allow
> that one person works swinging a sledge hammer all day whilst another
> works swinging a pencil all day?
>
I do. I was just making the point that large sections of the world's
populace would be consuming more if they averaged 600 calories per
day. Even if one takes the 1500 calories per day seen as 'average'
he's eating for 8.
Fran
Fran
It's worth something to those who don't enjoy it,
Fran
Fran
> On Aug 22, 8:18 pm, Fran <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 22, 5:35 pm, nofarken...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 22, 10:32 am, Fran <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:> The news of the gold medal record smashing Michael Phelps diet was a
> > > > salutary reminder in these days of first world plenty. Michael Phelps'
> > > > 12000-calorie-per-day effort represents a sufficient number of
> > > > calories to keep roughly 20 people in modest good health.
>
> > > Have you tried living an ACTIVE life, ie WORKING, not sitting on your
> > > arse shuffling paper, on 600 calories?
>
> > I've managed on about that for a couple of weeks.
>
> If you did, you would have lost a shitload of weight.
>
6.25 kg
> Ran a part of an> athletics carnival in the middle of it.
>
> Sure you did. My nostrils detect bullshit.
>
Only because your head is full of it. I suppose it's good that one of
the holes in your head is working to specification.
> > Of course, it's not as if Phelps is doing anything useful
>
> And you are more useful?
Yes, and I'm eating about 1200 calories per day.
Fran
TG'sFM
> On Aug 23, 7:15 am, nofarken...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 22, 8:18 pm, Fran <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 22, 5:35 pm, nofarken...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 22, 10:32 am, Fran <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:> The news of the gold medal record smashing Michael Phelps diet was a
> > > > > salutary reminder in these days of first world plenty. Michael Phelps'
> > > > > 12000-calorie-per-day effort represents a sufficient number of
> > > > > calories to keep roughly 20 people in modest good health.
>
> > > > Have you tried living an ACTIVE life, ie WORKING, not sitting on your
> > > > arse shuffling paper, on 600 calories?
>
> > > I've managed on about that for a couple of weeks.
>
> > If you did, you would have lost a shitload of weight.
>
> 6.25 kg
>
> > Ran a part of an> athletics carnival in the middle of it.
>
> > Sure you did. My nostrils detect bullshit.
>
> Only because your head is full of it. I suppose it's good that one of
> the holes in your head is working to specification.
Nominated for Comeback of the Year (CotY).
Poetic Justice
sufficient... But then there are pregnant women who need more and that's
for genetics, if we are well fed we produce a larger, active brain.
Fran
If you go back through this thread and look for the point where I
mentioned legislating the correct number of calories each person
should have, you will look in vain, though of course you don't mind
implying that I have a figure in mind. It fits your paranoid
delusional mindset.
If someone wants to guzzle his or her way through 12000 calories per
day, then as far as I'm concerned, that's a matter for them.
Nevertheless, it does empahsise a broader point about the resource
usages of the world we live in, where people are celebrated for their
capacity to consume pointless amounts of food and given the public
funds necessary to make this possible.
It's telling that although your lot make a song and dance nearly
everytime you post about taxes and government subsidies that at least
have the potential to do something from which everyone can derive some
benefit, you remain utterly silent about public funding of the
Olympics. It simply could not exist on the scale that it does without
truly massive state funding.
You jump up and down about corn ethanol subsidies (and on this matter
I'd agree with you that they are ill-deserved) but if some food
guzzling machine is being operated by the taxpayer for the purpose of
churning up a swimming pool more effectively in some far off sports-
realted propaganda exercise for some repressive trading partner, one
can hear the crickets for all the noise your lot make.
Fran.
Fran
> >> On Aug 22, 10:32 am, Fran <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:> The news of the gold medal record smashing Michael Phelps diet was a
> >>> salutary reminder in these days of first world plenty. Michael Phelps'
> >>> 12000-calorie-per-day effort represents a sufficient number of
> >>> calories to keep roughly 20 people in modest good health.
> >> Have you tried living an ACTIVE life, ie WORKING, not sitting on your
> >> arse shuffling paper, on 600 calories?
>
> > athletics carnival in the middle of it.
>
>
>
No, it's simply a willingness to state the obvious. You say you're a
skeptic and yet your name is Pollyanna on the Olympics. Your
"skepticism" is highly selective.
> <robot voice>"All humanoids must only do what is strictly and entirely
> useful. Beep. Beep."</robot voice>
Finally, we get some candour from you. Your answers are programmed by
others.
For a long time I thought that line in the procedure would never
execute, but it's good to see that the test condition was finally
satisfied.
Fran
nofar...@gmail.com
> On Aug 23, 7:15 am, nofarken...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Aug 22, 8:18 pm, Fran <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 22, 5:35 pm, nofarken...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 22, 10:32 am, Fran <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:> The news of the gold medal record smashing Michael Phelps diet was a
> > > > > salutary reminder in these days of first world plenty. Michael Phelps'
> > > > > 12000-calorie-per-day effort represents a sufficient number of
> > > > > calories to keep roughly 20 people in modest good health.
>
> > > > Have you tried living an ACTIVE life, ie WORKING, not sitting on your
> > > > arse shuffling paper, on 600 calories?
>
> > > I've managed on about that for a couple of weeks.
>
> > If you did, you would have lost a shitload of weight.
>
> 6.25 kg
>
> > Ran a part of an> athletics carnival in the middle of it.
>
> > Sure you did. My nostrils detect bullshit.
>
> Only because your head is full of it.
Sticks and stones, comrade.
I suppose it's good that one of
> the holes in your head is working to specification.
>
Same again, comrade- sticks and stones.
> > > Of course, it's not as if Phelps is doing anything useful
>
> > And you are more useful?
>
> Yes,
What have you done in the last week that is world wide, more useful
than Phelps?
> and I'm eating about 1200 calories per day.
>
Which is a minimum for an average adult. I notice, however, you state
"about" which means you in reality are sucking up more or less than
that amount.
HD
"Rich" <som...@someplace.not> wrote in message
news:qIqdnROXLtenRTPV...@comcast.com...
The Church wants a tithe, God wants you to share all your processions with
your fellow human being.
I don't think you cheer God's principle. The rich Pharisees didn't 2000
years ago.
Poetic Justice
Well there you go, a little freedom for humanity, the idea that 600 is a
magic number that all should adhere to is not even close to the
trans-fat laws being proposed from the Left?
Being you are socialist/commie I'm surprised that you don't want to
*regulate* that caloric intake just like you want to regulate peoples
energy/CO2 use.
> Nevertheless, it does empahsise a broader point about the resource
> usages of the world we live in, where people are celebrated for their
> capacity to consume pointless amounts of food and given the public
> funds necessary to make this possible.
>
Now you hit a nerve... The problem with socialism is just that, they
waste our hard earned money on their own pointless projects. Just like
giving away free money to people which does nothing to help either the
welfare recipient or the tax payer. The people receiving the money need
a job, do what ever they can to to get that money.
And then there are bridges to nowhere. All that waste is due to the
government having access to endless streams of our money. It's time to
put a stop to it, or they'll run the country into the dirt like a poorly
run business.
> It's telling that although your lot make a song and dance nearly
> everytime you post about taxes and government subsidies that at least
> have the potential to do something from which everyone can derive some
> benefit, you remain utterly silent about public funding of the
> Olympics. It simply could not exist on the scale that it does without
> truly massive state funding.
>
Drop the Olympics and I'll raise you the United Nations.... and if they
can't control NATO and keep it within its original charter of never a
deployment until a member has been attacked, then withdraw from that
international world's police force too.
> You jump up and down about corn ethanol subsidies (and on this matter
> I'd agree with you that they are ill-deserved) but if some food
> guzzling machine is being operated by the taxpayer for the purpose of
> churning up a swimming pool more effectively in some far off sports-
> realted propaganda exercise for some repressive trading partner, one
> can hear the crickets for all the noise your lot make.
Actually I get called a Kook all the time for bringing out such minor
problems with Government wasting our money, I like it. But not that his
12000 calorie intake is evil, eat all you want as far as I'm
concerned.... Just *don't ask be to buy your food*
>
>
> Fran.
bringyagrogalong
> >
> > The news of the gold medal record smashing Michael Phelps diet was a
> > salutary reminder in these days of first world plenty. Michael Phelps'
> > 12000-calorie-per-day effort represents a sufficient number of calories to
> > keep roughly 20 people in modest good health.
>
Speaking of capitalists, and speaking of starving, the minimum wage in
the United States is $6.55 per hour, before taxes.
Great system you have there.
Bill Ward
We must be paying too much. One of the "problems" that dogooder alarmists
are panicky about is that too many lower income folks in the US are
overweight. Starving people being overweight is like global warming
causing lower temperatures.
Capitalists just can't do anything right. We starve people and they get
fat. We exploit people and they get rich (Japan, Philippines, Korea, etc.).
It takes all the fun out of trying to be evil.
john fernbach
Not to mention all of the AMAZINGLY rich people now living in El
Salvador, Honduras and Nicaragua, where US capitalist corporations
have been busy exploiting people for generations!
Thanks to US capitalist investment in Central America - POVERTY HAS
BEEN TOTALLY ABOLISHED THERE!
Just the way it has in Haiti, the Dominican Republican and Puerto
Rico!
And look at other historic centers of US industrial capitalist
activity -- New York City, Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, St. Louis,
Baltimore and Boston!
NO POVERTY NOW EXISTS IN ANY OF THESE PLACES ....
right?
That's what you're implying, Bill. If you're correct, all of these
places, from Detroit and Cleveland and the East Bronx to El Salvador,
should be thriving capitalist success stories.
O the wonders of "Free Enterprise" when it's truly unleashed!
john fernbach
No, the idea that Fran's pushing -- whether it's truly workable or not
-- is that after the revolution, no more social classes exist.
No group of people is responsible for hiring and firing, paying or
exploiting or employing another group of people.
"The workers" -- i.e. everybody, in the long run -- are supposed to
rule.
Again, the historic details may never have been worked out correctly,
and the vision may be flawed. But the vision is that in Fran's
"communist" society, people rule themselves.
>
> Speaking of capitalists, and speaking of starving, the minimum wage in
> the United States is $6.55 per hour, before taxes.
>
> Great system you have there.-
It's a great system for being internationally competitive -- for
trying to undercut the labor costs of more socially conscious
societies, such as the Social Democratic countries of Western
Europe.
If we exploit our workers more, pay them less and make them work more
hours in the year, we can hope to wreck the competitiveness of say,
France, Germany or Denmark, where workers are paid more and have a
better safety net.
Unfortunately, the Chinese under the name of "Communism" have created
a capitalist system of exploitation that is even more ruthless, stingy
and exploitative than ours here in the US.
One big risk for the US therefore is that the Chinese will under-sell
us, just as we have tried to under-sell other industrial societies.
Cooperatively dividing up the world market and trying to arrange for
working standards and wages that would enable working people
everywhere to get good pay and enjoy real job security, of course,
would be wrong.
Here in the US, we call that "communism." Much better that the
different nations of the world compete for markets, raw materials and
investment capital, and that the countries that are most efficient in
screwing the workers should win.
Peter Franks
> On Aug 23, 12:20 am, Peter Franks <n...@none.com> wrote:
>> Fran wrote:
>>> On Aug 22, 5:35 pm, nofarken...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Aug 22, 10:32 am, Fran <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:> The news of the gold medal record smashing Michael Phelps diet was a
>>>>> salutary reminder in these days of first world plenty. Michael Phelps'
>>>>> 12000-calorie-per-day effort represents a sufficient number of
>>>>> calories to keep roughly 20 people in modest good health.
>>>> Have you tried living an ACTIVE life, ie WORKING, not sitting on your
>>>> arse shuffling paper, on 600 calories?
>>> I've managed on about that for a couple of weeks. Ran a part of an
>>> athletics carnival in the middle of it.
>>> Of course, it's not as if Phelps is doing anything useful
>> What a rotten attitude.
>
> No, it's simply a willingness to state the obvious. You say you're a
> skeptic and yet your name is Pollyanna on the Olympics. Your
> "skepticism" is highly selective.
What does "skepticism" have to do with your inane comments?
The only thing that is obvious here is that you feel the need to control
others.
Peter Franks
Hunger is caused by totalitarianism, not swimmers with massive caloric
intakes.
You want to fix the problem? Start with the source.
Fernba...@gmail.com
>
> Capitalists just can't do anything right. We starve people and they get
> fat. We exploit people and they get rich (Japan, Philippines, Korea, etc.).
>
> It takes all the fun out of trying to be evil.-
Here’s another posts on a place where capitalism has brought simply
AMAZING wealth for all.
Manchester, England was the first big center of the British cotton
textile industry, the major breakthrough industry of the capitalist
Industrial Revolution.
What’s Manchester like today, in terms of wealth and poverty? What
kind of social legacy have 250 years of capitalist economic progress
left behind in this city?
Here's a report by the Tories -- the Conservative Party -- on the
social problems still plaguing Manchester, more than two centuries
after the Industrial Revolution got underway there. Naturally, the
Tories are blaming the city's problems on the state, and on the Labour
Party.
But look at just how grim Manchester looks after more than 200 years
of capitalist progress:
From the BBC, November 8, 2007
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7084044.stm
“Manchester people ‘left behind’
Social breakdown in Manchester is significantly worse than in any
other big English city, a survey by ex-Tory leader Iain Duncan Smith
suggests.
His Centre for Social Justice says Manchester's teenage pregnancy rate
is almost double the England average.
The proportion of city men admitted to hospital because of alcohol is
the second highest in the country, it says.
Mr Duncan Smith says Manchester is one of the UK's greatest cities,
but many of its people are "being left behind".
The Centre for Social Justice says its report "paints a disturbing
picture of educational failure, high levels of youth crime and
unemployment, widespread family breakdown and severe alcohol abuse".
'Spiral' of decline
It is being unveiled in Manchester at the same time as Tory leader
David Cameron launches a Conservative Co-operative movement to help
people form groups to take control of some local public services.
On just about every measure of social breakdown, Manchester is
scoring far worse than the national average and other big cities
Iain Duncan Smith
Tories plan 'co-op schools'
Mr Cameron and Mr Duncan Smith are joining forces with local voluntary
workers at Manchester's Barnabus project - which helps the homeless,
addicts, ex-offenders and prostitutes - to unveil a "Breakthrough
Manchester" manifesto for social renewal.
Mr Duncan Smith will say: "Manchester is one of the greatest cities in
the UK and its economic rebirth over the last 15 years is enriching
the lives of many of its two million citizens.
"But many others are being left behind. On just about every measure of
social breakdown, Manchester is scoring far worse than the national
average and other big cities.
"We almost have two Manchesters - one that is forging ahead, creating
jobs, wealth and regeneration of run-down areas - and another mired in
a deepening spiral of social breakdown.
"We are forming policies to reverse the tide of social breakdown and
ensure that everyone in Manchester and the rest of the UK will have a
chance to play a full part in the life of the nation."
Truancy
Mr Duncan Smith will say plans in the Tories' "Breakthrough Britain"
manifesto for new pioneer schools, run by parents and local voluntary
groups, "will transform educational chances for children from poor
parts" of Manchester.
"And our proposals for tax breaks for marriage and benefit reform will
help to strengthen families."
Some of the report's key findings for Manchester:
• Only three of Manchester's 23 non-selective state secondary schools
achieve exam results above the national average
• Manchester is near the bottom of the league table for truancy,
scoring second worst out of 150 councils and fourth worst for school
exclusions for bad behaviour
• Only one school leaver in four goes to university
• Two in five families with children are headed by a lone parent,
compared with just over one in five across England
SNIP
• In Greater Manchester there are seven gun-related incidents every
day - the number of firearms deaths is only higher in London
• One in 14 girls aged between 15 and 17 becomes pregnant in
Manchester - almost double the rate across England
SNIP
• In 2005/6 809 per 100,000 of Manchester's male population were
admitted to hospital because of alcohol-specific conditions - more
than double the national rate of 340 per 100,000
• In 2006, 22% of Manchester's working-age population were out of
work and on benefits, higher than the national rate of 14.6%
Fernba...@gmail.com
>
> Capitalists just can't do anything right. We starve people and they get
> fat. We exploit people and they get rich (Japan, Philippines, Korea, etc.).
>
> It takes all the fun out of trying to be evil.-
Here’s another report on poverty -- this time, poverty in Wales,
which along with Lancashire in Northwestern England was one of the
major centers of the British mining industry and the British iron and
steel industry during the 1800s.
What kind of social and economic legacy did capitalist heavy industry
and capitalist economic growth leave behind in Wales, over the course
of several centuries?
A report from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation,
November 2005
Here’s another report on poverty -- this time, poverty in Wales,
which along with Lancashire in Northwestern England was one of the
major centers of the British mining industry and the British iron and
steel industry during the 1800s.
What kind of social and economic legacy did capitalist heavy industry
and capitalist economic growth leave behind in Wales, over the course
of several centuries?
________________________________________________
A report from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation,
November 2005
http://www.jrf.org.uk/pressroom/releases/301105.asp
___________________________________________________
Family poverty falls faster in Wales, but one in four children still
affected
Welsh poverty rates have fallen faster than those in England or
Scotland in the past decade and are now no worse than the average for
Britain as a whole.
But one in four children continue to live in poor families and there
are significant levels of poverty throughout the country, according to
a major new assessment of social exclusion in Wales.
Monitoring poverty and social exclusion in Wales 2005 shows that
roughly a third of the 170,000 children in homes below the poverty
threshold live in the Valleys, a third in Cardiff and the rest of the
South, and a third in North, West and Mid-Wales. More than half live
with lone parents who are mostly not working.
The report, which examines 32 different indicators, including
education, employment, health and housing as well as poverty
indicators, is being launched today at the Wales Millennium Centre in
Cardiff, at an event where Rhodri Morgan, First Minister in the Welsh
Assembly Government, will be the keynote speaker.
Compiled for the Joseph Rowntree Foundation by researchers from the
New Policy Institute, the report shows that 640,000 people in Wales
were living in poverty on the latest official figures including
120,000 pensioners and 350,000 working-age adults. Its main findings
also show that:
• Unemployment has almost halved in a decade to around 60,000.
However, a further 95,000 people are classified as 'economically
inactive, but wanting work' due to sickness, disability or lone
parenthood.
The highest combined levels of people who lack work are in the Valleys
where more than one in eight adults of working age is affected.
• Low pay, especially among women, is an increasingly significant
cause of poverty in Wales. More than a third of poor households
include an adult who is working. Despite the minimum wage and tax
credits, the numbers experiencing 'in-work poverty' are no lower than
in the mid-1990s.
• One in four women in full-time jobs and 60 per cent of those in part-
time work are paid less than £6.50 an hour. Low pay is most prevalent
in rural Pembrokeshire, Gwynedd and Powys.
• Former mining areas in the South have the highest proportions
anywhere in Wales or England of adults who are out of work because of
limiting long-term illness.
Carmarthenshire, Ceredigion, Gwynedd and Ynys Mon also have many
localities where levels are above-average.
• Although the conventional measure of poverty (households with less
than 60 per of UK median income) has improved over ten years, the
numbers in Wales who live in 'deep poverty' (40 per cent of median
household income) has remained the same at around 250,000.
Among education trends, the report finds that:
• Although attainment in schools has improved in the past decade, the
job prospects for those who achieve the fewest qualifications remain
poor – placing them at high risk of future poverty.
SNIP
On older people in Wales, the report shows that:
• The proportion of pensioners in low-income households has declined
since the mid-1990s from 25 to 20 per cent. Most of this fall has been
among single pensioners who are now no more likely to be living in
poverty than couples.
• A third of older people live alone, with women outnumbering men by
three to one. Although more money and staff time is being devoted to
the care needs of frail, older people, the proportion who receive home
care from their local authority has almost halved over ten years.
• Older people are especially affected by disparities in the number of
family doctors. In Flintshire and Rhondda-Cynon-Taff there are 2,000
patients per GP compared with 1,200 in Powys and Ceredigion.
Housing indicators show that:
• Homelessness has risen sharply. The number of households accepted by
Welsh local authorities as homeless has doubled from 8,000 in 2000 to
16,000 in 2004. Two-thirds of homeless households are people without
children. Use of temporary accommodation has trebled.
Transport indicators show that:
• A majority of households throughout Wales say that local bus
services do not meet their needs for weekday travel. Two out of five
who lack a car say the bus service is inadequate to reach shops, while
two thirds say it is unhelpful for reaching local hospitals. Groups
most likely to lack a car are lone parent households (half) and single
pensioners (two-thirds).
Dr Peter Kenway, joint Director of the New Policy Institute and co-
author of the report, said: “We have been routinely monitoring poverty
and social exclusion across Britain since 1998, but this is the first
annual report we have produced specific to Wales. The 32 indicators
have been chosen to reflect particular Welsh concerns and we hope the
results will provide a valuable planning tool for local and national
policy makers, as well as voluntary organisations and others concerned
with tackling poverty."
He added: "Although poverty and disadvantage are at their deepest in
the Valleys, our report shows that people in all parts of Wales face
these problems. Politicians in Cardiff and London need to respond
accordingly."
Note to Editors
Monitoring poverty and social exclusion in Wales 2005, by Peter
Kenway, Naomi Parsons, Jane Carr and Guy Palmer, is published by the
Joseph Rowntree Foundation and available from York Publishing
Services, 64 Hallfield Road, Layerthorpe, York YO31 7ZQ (01904 430033)
price £16.95 plus £2 p&p.
• Read the Findings summary
• Order a printed report from our Bookshop
• Download the report free of charge (PDF, 3MB)
Fernba...@gmail.com
> fat. We exploit people and they get rich (Japan, Philippines, Korea, etc.).
>
===================================
Bill - One more time here.
Here's a little item on poverty in Louisiana, a state that has become
a major center of capitalist chemical production (and also of oil
production, of course) here in the United States.
What kind of social legacy have the capitalist chemical industry and
the petroleum industry bequeathed to Louisiana?
From the Web site of the US anti-poverty group "Hope Works"
Louisiana Facts
Poverty
Louisiana's poverty rate is 19.2% - the second highest rate in the
nation, and the highest in the South. (U.S. Census Bureau)
More than 26% of Louisiana children live in poverty - the second
highest rate in the nation and the highest in the South. (U.S. Census
Bureau)
Ten percent of the babies born in Louisiana are low birth weight.
That's the second-highest percentage in the nation and the South. In
many cases, low birth weight babies face added difficulties learning
and need additional assistance to succeed in school. (U.S. Census
Bureau)
Louisiana has the highest percentage in the nation of families with
children headed by a single parent - 35%. The Southern average is
29%. (2000 Kids Count Data Book)
Thirty-five percent of children in Louisiana live with parents who
do not have full-time, year-round jobs. That's the second-worst rate
in the nation and the South. The Southern average is 29%. (U.S.
Census Bureau)
The nationally recognized Better Homes Fund cited Louisiana as the
state where children are the most at risk for homelessness. (The
Better Homes Fund.)
In Louisiana, 13% of teens age 16-19 do not attend school or work.
That's the second-highest percentage in the nation and, along with
Tennessee, the highest in the South. (U.S. Census Bureau)
During the 1999-2000 school year, 34% of the "at-risk" four-year-
olds in Louisiana were not being served by any public early childhood
program. That amounts to more than 13,000 children. (LA Department of
Education)
Fewer than half the fourth and eighth grade students who took the
LEAP 21 "high stakes" test in 2000 reached the level of basic in math.
Just over half reached the basic level in English. (LA Department of
Education)
Louisiana has the highest juvenile incarceration rate in the nation
at a cost of more than $26,000 a year for every youngster housed in a
state facility. (Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency
Prevention & LA Legislative Auditor)
Back to Louisiana Alerts
For the rest of the report, click here:
http://www.hopenetworks.org/povertyinlouisiana.htm
Fernba...@gmail.com
>
+++++++++++++++++++++++ -
Fran
> Fran wrote:
> > On Aug 23, 12:20 am, Peter Franks <n...@none.com> wrote:
> >> Fran wrote:
> >>> On Aug 22, 5:35 pm, nofarken...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>> On Aug 22, 10:32 am, Fran <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:> The news of the gold medal record smashing Michael Phelps diet was a
> >>>>> salutary reminder in these days of first world plenty. Michael Phelps'
> >>>>> 12000-calorie-per-day effort represents a sufficient number of
> >>>>> calories to keep roughly 20 people in modest good health.
> >>>> Have you tried living an ACTIVE life, ie WORKING, not sitting on your
> >>>> arse shuffling paper, on 600 calories?
> >>> I've managed on about that for a couple of weeks. Ran a part of an
> >>> athletics carnival in the middle of it.
> >>> Of course, it's not as if Phelps is doing anything useful
> >> What a rotten attitude.
>
> > No, it's simply a willingness to state the obvious. You say you're a
> > skeptic and yet your name is Pollyanna on the Olympics. Your
> > "skepticism" is highly selective.
>
> What does "skepticism" have to do with your inane comments?
>
It's your observation that was inane. For what *measurable*
improvement to the wellbeing of humanity is Michael Phelps
responsible?
You cite none but, wave your hands about as if some benefit is
obvious. That doesn't hinder you of course from dismissing the
benefits of climate change mitigation outlined by IPCC, Stern,
Nordhaus etc ...
You're 'skeptical' at things which for you smack of 'socialism' but a
paragon of faith at things which reek of elitism, even when th said
elitist things are the product of just the massive subsidies and
collaboration which you normally think of as anathema.
That's why the term 'skeptic' is ill-suited to your lot. You aren't
analytic and hyngry for truth wherever it leads. You're driven by your
own brand of political fundamentalism.
> The only thing that is obvious here is that you feel the need to control
> others.
And here again is an example of yuur political shoehorn at work. If
the shoe doesn't fit, make it so.
Fran
Fran
Not right after the revolution. The dissolution of classes cannot be
decreed. It's a matter of the level of productivity and the success of
collaboration.
> No group of people is responsible for hiring and firing, paying or
> exploiting or employing another group of people.
>
The legitimate stakeholder community as a whole, drives the
organisation of social labour.
> "The workers" -- i.e. everybody, in the long run -- are supposed to
> rule.
> Again, the historic details may never have been worked out correctly,
> and the vision may be flawed. But the vision is that in Fran's
> "communist" society, people rule themselves.
>
Yes, with protection for the separation between the legitimate claims
of the polity and the legitimate space of individuals and for just
means of reconciling these two domains
The problem with the naysayers in here is that they want to shoehorn
everything I say into categories that suit their dogma. If I call for
fair shares, instead of seeing that, for better or worse, as
reflecting a desire to ensure that everyone's basic needs are met,
they shoehorn it into a desire on my part to set myself out as the
head of a ration system.
If I say that Michael Phelps does nothing useful, they shoehorn that
into a desire on my part to become the regulator of all human
activity.
Stand back a little and it is laughable, and difficult to take
seriously. It's hard not to believe that this is just hysterical
slandering, because surely, nobody could be stupid enough to believe
this, but then, if that's so, what would be the point of saying it?
Maybe they are stupid enough tio believe this. Maybe their
fundamentalism is so deeply embedded that they can't see the
difference between evaluating the world and wanting to coercively
reforming it with one's own hands on a global scale.
Fran
Horry
Are there many minimum wage jobs in the United States that don't provide
supplementary income in the form of tips/gratuities?
The United States seems to have a lot of minimum wage jobs that don't
exist elsewhere. Doormen, and those people who hand out towels in hotel/
restaurant bathrooms spring to mind.
Horry
>> No group of people is responsible for hiring and firing, paying or
>> exploiting or employing another group of people.
>>
>>
> The legitimate stakeholder community as a whole, drives the organisation
> of social labour.
What does that even MEAN?
TG'sFM
Drug Store attendants, crash test dummies, astronauts, night watchmen.
Fran
You want me to do your intellectual work?
Fran
Horry
Over here in Australia, we have those jobs but we call them pharmacy-
assisters, mannequins, Andy Thomas, and OMC gang-members, respectively.
Hope that helps AND informs.
TG'sFM
Over here in Australia, we also have doormen and those people who hand
out towels in the hotel/restaurant bathrooms, but we call them doormen
and bathroom attendents, respectively. Maybe you and I go to
different classes of restaurants?
Horry
The Hutt River Province is NOT "in" Australia. It is a separate,
sovereign nation GIRT BY Australia, but it is not IN Australia.
> Maybe you and I go to different classes of restaurants?
Whenever visiting the Principality, I bring a picnic rug and my own
packed lunches.
Fran
> On Aug 23, 1:03 pm, Fran <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 23, 7:15 am, nofarken...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 22, 8:18 pm, Fran <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 22, 5:35 pm, nofarken...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > > > On Aug 22, 10:32 am, Fran <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:> The news of the gold medal record smashing Michael Phelps diet was a
> > > > > > salutary reminder in these days of first world plenty. Michael Phelps'
> > > > > > 12000-calorie-per-day effort represents a sufficient number of
> > > > > > calories to keep roughly 20 people in modest good health.
>
> > > > > Have you tried living an ACTIVE life, ie WORKING, not sitting on your
> > > > > arse shuffling paper, on 600 calories?
>
> > > > I've managed on about that for a couple of weeks.
>
> > > If you did, you would have lost a shitload of weight.
>
> > 6.25 kg
>
> > > Ran a part of an> athletics carnival in the middle of it.
>
> > > Sure you did. My nostrils detect bullshit.
>
> > Only because your head is full of it.
>
> Sticks and stones, comrade.
>
> I suppose it's good that one of the holes in your head is working to specification.
>
> Same again, comrade- sticks and stones.
>
No material eh? You really are as clueless as your nick suggests.
Run along but don't forget to wipe your nose ...
Fran
Whata Fool
Probably not more than a couple of million;
http://www.bls.gov/oes/2005/may/major.pdf
>The United States seems to have a lot of minimum wage jobs that don't
>exist elsewhere. Doormen, and those people who hand out towels in hotel/
>restaurant bathrooms spring to mind.
Sure, probably a couple of thousand of those.
From the link above it is easy to see the average wage is perhaps
close to $15 and hour, but that can't be compared directly with wages
in Europe, because of the tax structure.
A worker with spouse that does not have income, earning $15 an hour
$30,000 per year, will pay 7.65 percent Social security taxes, and perhaps
$500 in local and state income tax, and with 2 kids, may not pay any federal
income tax at all, and will get an Earned Income refund of about $4,000.
That may equate to an effective income of about $32,000, while in
Europe, a $40,000 per year job may pay 25 percent taxes on purchases, which
could be close to equal.
The usual opinion that "$7.00 dollars an hour is not enough to
survive on" doesn't take into consideration that things everybody buys
would cost a lot more if the wages were higher.
Food preparation jobs are the lowest paying, allowing breakfast
for me to be $2.24 for a sausage, egg and cheese biscuit sandwich, if
it were to cost more, I might just fix breakfast at home, and there
would be less work for those making minimum wage.
But even McDonalds pays more like $8.00 an hour on average,
so it isn't clear just where the minimum wage jobs are.
Minimum wage doesn't even apply to small companies with less
$500,000 gross revenue and no interstate commerce;
Actually, about half of all employed are _NOT_ covered by
minimum wage;
http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/minwage.htm#who
but the usual wages of most is far more than the minimum wage.
Peter Franks
> On Aug 24, 8:12 am, Peter Franks <n...@none.com> wrote:
>> Fran wrote:
>>> On Aug 23, 12:20 am, Peter Franks <n...@none.com> wrote:
>>>> Fran wrote:
>>>>> On Aug 22, 5:35 pm, nofarken...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Aug 22, 10:32 am, Fran <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote:> The news of the gold medal record smashing Michael Phelps diet was a
>>>>>>> salutary reminder in these days of first world plenty. Michael Phelps'
>>>>>>> 12000-calorie-per-day effort represents a sufficient number of
>>>>>>> calories to keep roughly 20 people in modest good health.
>>>>>> Have you tried living an ACTIVE life, ie WORKING, not sitting on your
>>>>>> arse shuffling paper, on 600 calories?
>>>>> I've managed on about that for a couple of weeks. Ran a part of an
>>>>> athletics carnival in the middle of it.
>>>>> Of course, it's not as if Phelps is doing anything useful
>>>> What a rotten attitude.
>>> No, it's simply a willingness to state the obvious. You say you're a
>>> skeptic and yet your name is Pollyanna on the Olympics. Your
>>> "skepticism" is highly selective.
>> What does "skepticism" have to do with your inane comments?
>>
>
> It's your observation that was inane. For what *measurable*
> improvement to the wellbeing of humanity is Michael Phelps
> responsible?
So what if there is none? What difference does it make to you?
Must someone always be contributing, measurable to your standards, to
the wellbeing of humanity?
Fran
It's obvious isn't it? His ability to behave in this way is the result
of access to very substantial public funds. Public funds should fund
the common good while private funds should support private goods. That
would normally be your view, but it seems you make an exception here.
I find that curious.
> Must someone always be contributing, measurable to your standards, to
> the wellbeing of humanity?
No, of course not, but Michael Phelps is not a socially disadvantaged
welfare recipient. He is getting far more than is necessary to stay in
good health and clearly does not need a state subsidy. Any number of
other people have far stronger needs-based claims, so why is he being
supported when either on resource or political grounds, deserving
people are being denied?
Fran
Peter Franks
"America's Olympic effort is coordinated by the United States Olympic
Committee (USOC), headquartered in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Unlike
most national Olympic committees, USOC receives no continuous federal
government subsidy, relying instead on corporate and individual
contributions and on the proceeds of its direct marketing program."
http://www.america.gov/st/washfile-english/2006/February/20060209164553jmnamdeirf0.9387018.html
I don't think athletics on ANY level should be supported with the public
funds. Thanks for asking.
Further, you make the false assumption that Phelps (and other athletes)
are not providing a public good. Many would argue with you --
Fran
The narrow interpretation of the term 'subsidy' and limiting it to
"continuous federal" moneys makes this claim not all that impressive.
What about indirect subsidies, like tax deuctions for example? The
following short clip is worth a look in this respect.
>
> I don't think athletics on ANY level should be supported with the public
> funds. Thanks for asking.
>
I'd disagree. I'm for subsidising things that meet an acceptable
public interest test.
A community based non-discriminatory athletics club might well meet
such a test.
> Further, you make the false assumption that Phelps (and other athletes)
> are not providing a public good. Many would argue with you
Doubtless, but would their arguments be plausible? If not, so what?
Fran
Peter Franks
Impressive or not, the point is that a majority of the $$ for US Olympic
athletes comes from private/corporate sources. Your statement "His
ability to behave in this way is the result of access to very
substantial public funds." has been proved false.
>> I don't think athletics on ANY level should be supported with the public
>> funds. Thanks for asking.
>>
>
> I'd disagree. I'm for subsidising things that meet an acceptable
> public interest test.
>
> A community based non-discriminatory athletics club might well meet
> such a test.
The private sector can handle that quite well, and usually much more
efficiently.
Are you a socialist?
>> Further, you make the false assumption that Phelps (and other athletes)
>> are not providing a public good. Many would argue with you
>
> Doubtless, but would their arguments be plausible? If not, so what?
"So what" is right -- after all it was your opinion passed of as fact
that "it's not as if Phelps is doing anything useful...". So what!
Fran
On the contrary, it has been affirmed. I'd certainly count tax
writeoffs by companies for sponsoring sport as a subsidy because those
are revenues forfeited by the Federal (and in some cases state and
local) government. Instead of paying those monies to the public they
pay them to elite sports people.
Then of course there are other subsidies -- concessional use of
municpal and state facilities, funding by state governments and so
forth.
And of course, all of the resources from the commons also need to be
accounted. Those energy-intensive activities -- building of
facilities, transport, security for example -- all put upward pressure
on the resources available to others. The emissions associated with
them are currently uncharged.
Every Olympian of course is in receipt of resources provided by the
host nation. The facilities ion China were probably the most expensive
ever built, but AIUI every Olympics in the last 30 years (and
possibly longer) has lost money
> >> I don't think athletics on ANY level should be supported with the public
> >> funds. Thanks for asking.
>
> > I'd disagree. I'm for subsidising things that meet an acceptable
> > public interest test.
>
> > A community based non-discriminatory athletics club might well meet
> > such a test.
>
> The private sector can handle that quite well, and usually much more
> efficiently.
>
That's a wave of the hand. In the major cities, that may well be
substantially the case. On the margins of the big cities and in rural
areas, or in economically depressed areas, this will probably be the
exception.
> Are you a socialist?
>
Yes ...
> >> Further, you make the false assumption that Phelps (and other athletes)
> >> are not providing a public good. Many would argue with you
>
> > Doubtless, but would their arguments be plausible? If not, so what?
>
> "So what" is right -- after all it was your opinion passed off as fact
> that "it's not as if Phelps is doing anything useful...". So what!
That's non-responsive. The question is not whether 'many would argue
with [me]' (i.e. dispute my claim that Phelps was doing nothing
useful) but whether they'd have a sound basis for doing so.
You want to *imply* that he is doing something useful without
advancing a specific claim. This you share with those given the
privilege of telling the public how proud they are of their Olympians.
The Olympics and elite sport in general is so embedded in business and
popular culture that nobody considers making a case for it in public
utility.
So, does Michael Phelps do anything useful *for the public*? If so,
what is it, and how do you measure how useful it is? Is it worth the
resources applied to it? Do Michael Phelps' efforts in the pool ensure
that 11 people ( won't worry about the other resources he consumes for
the moment) who have no choice but to get buy on 600 calories per day
have access to 1200? Do his gold medals lead to a decline in malaria
or an increase in access to potable water, or better quality housing
or easier access to some other liberating or life-sustaining resource
for those lacking such access?
I see no reason for thinking Phelps' efforts contribute a jot to these
utilities.
Fran
Peter Franks
>> Are you a socialist?
>
> Yes ...
Well then what are you arguing about?
The picture you have painted regarding public $$ -> Phelps (athletics,
Olympians, etc.) is the definition of a social program.
You should be thrilled.
BTW: I've lost interest in the topic.
I don't really care about Phelps or 12,000 calorie diets. He can eat
whatever he wants, for all I care. I believe in freedom -- allowing a
person to do what they want, as long at is doesn't substantially impact
the rights of another.
Oh, and Phelps' diet /doesn't/ substantially impact the rights of
others. Other than your rhetoric, you haven't provided proof of
anything to back any of your vacuous claims.
Have a nice day!
-pf
Fran
Zimbabwe's medals at Beijing, ensuring they got 38th place.
Murderous assassin, Robert Mugabe called her a true daughter of
Zimbabwe, and in true Zimbabwean style, she pulled up in a Mercedes
with ZAPU "Men in Black" to collect $100,000 dollars in a suitcase
from the governor of the Central Bank.
It wouldn't have been so bad had they been Zimbawean dollars. With 11
million percent inflation, that wouldn't have paid for her busfare to
the next stop. But no, this was hard currency in the coin of that most
hateful of all regimes to Mugabe, the US.
Precious hard currency was given away to Ms Coventry who quite wisely
left with all speed for the airport and the US.
I couldn't help but wonder whether it was Mugabe or the US that was
doing more to subvert the country's fortunes.
It does however, underline "the Olympic Spirit". Elites win, everyone
else loses.
Fran
Fran
cost has ballooned to $25 billion. Most of that will come from
taxpayers. Why don't they pull out?
Because they're nuts.
They spent about a $AUS2 billion dollars on a Millennium Dome that
lasted a year. I'm not sure how much they spent on the other related
millennium fireworks fandango but the whole thing fizzled.
Why would they think it would be good to have another Olympics?
Madness ...
Fran
Horry
> US-based Zimbabwean swimmer Kirsty Coventry captured exactly 100% of
> Zimbabwe's medals at Beijing, ensuring they got 38th place.
>
> Murderous assassin, Robert Mugabe called her a true daughter of
> Zimbabwe, and in true Zimbabwean style, she pulled up in a Mercedes with
> ZAPU "Men in Black" to collect $100,000 dollars in a suitcase from the
> governor of the Central Bank.
ZAPU?
ZANU PF.
> It wouldn't have been so bad had they been Zimbawean dollars. With 11
> million percent inflation, that wouldn't have paid for her busfare to
> the next stop. But no, this was hard currency in the coin of that most
> hateful of all regimes to Mugabe, the US.
>
> Precious hard currency was given away to Ms Coventry who quite wisely
> left with all speed for the airport and the US.
>
> I couldn't help but wonder whether it was Mugabe or the US that was
> doing more to subvert the country's fortunes.
>
> It does however, underline "the Olympic Spirit". Elites win, everyone
> else loses.
It doesn't "underline" that at all.
She won the medal because she's an elite athlete. She got the $100,000
because Mugabe decided to use her success in a PR exercise.
And had he awarded $100,000 to the winner of the 2008 "Best Socialist
Essay Competition", it wouldn't have underlined "the Socialist Ideal"
either.
PS: What does this have to do with "global warming"?
James
"Fran" <Fran...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5a0e66da-844f-48d8...@s20g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
For once I agree. The games which were supposed to be non-political and free
from government influence got shattered when Jimmy Carter decided we needed
to boycot the games in Moscow. Since then, it's been politics as usual with
tons of money being poured into them. The Hollywood style of Olympic games
has become the norm. Damn the overspending. Full speed ahead.
Fran
> "Fran" <Fran.B...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Someone on the BBC suggested that they pull out and pay whatever
ittook in penalties -- presumably less than the $7 bn they bid.
It sounds sensible
Fran
Fran
> On Sat, 30 Aug 2008 06:14:45 -0700, Fran wrote:
> > US-based Zimbabwean swimmer Kirsty Coventry captured exactly 100% of
> > Zimbabwe's medals at Beijing, ensuring they got 38th place.
>
> > Murderous assassin, Robert Mugabe called her a true daughter of
> > Zimbabwe, and in true Zimbabwean style, she pulled up in a Mercedes with
> > ZAPU "Men in Black" to collect $100,000 dollars in a suitcase from the
> > governor of the Central Bank.
>
> ZAPU?
>
> ZANU PF.
>
Oops ... mea culpa
<snip>
> > It does however, underline "the Olympic Spirit". Elites win, everyone
> > else loses.
>
> It doesn't "underline" that at all.
>
Yes it does
> She won the medal because she's an elite athlete. She got the $100,000
> because Mugabe decided to use her success in a PR exercise.
>
That's an instance of the Olympic Spirit. That's what it is for ...
the circus part of bread and circuses. Pity Mugabe hasn't got any
bread to distribute. That 100k might have bought some.
> And had he awarded $100,000 to the winner of the 2008 "Best Socialist
> Essay Competition", it wouldn't have underlined "the Socialist Ideal"
> either.
>
No, because socialist ideals are not about being the best essay writer
or being the best *individual* at anything. We believe in the
collective, remember?
> PS: What does this have to do with "global warming"?
It had to do with the role of elites, and their role in designing the
world to favour waste and misuse of resources, which policies lie at
the heart of global-warming.
This post and its antecedent "Chowdown at Beijing's Big Mouth Corral"
underscores the hypocrisy of those who say that those of us who favour
renewables are indifferent to the welfare of the poor or that the
elite polluters have the poor's interests at heart.
Fran