A trick shot in Byrne's book
Dave Nadler
One of the shots described in Byrne's trick shot looks something like this
__________________________________________________
| |
| O |
| |
| C |
| | A
| |
| |
| B |
| |
| |
|________________________________________________|
C= cue ball, O=object ball
The shot is to pocket the object ball with so much draw that the cue ball
smacks into the short rail near A and hit the opposite short rail near B.
I think Byrne said that when he asked Mike Massey to show him this and that
Massey did it on the first try. I have a couple of questions about this:
(1) with a light cue ball I can do table length draw pretty consistently
(but certainly not twice the length like this ever!) With say a matched
set of Centennials this is much harder for me. What sort of balls do they
use in trick shot competition ?
(2) what kind of cloth do they compete on ?
(3) in experimenting with different diameter tips I've found that with a
smaller tip I can get lower on the cue ball. What sort of tip would a trick
shot artist use for this?
(4) how far way from the cue ball would you bridge for this shot ? It has
seemed to me that the farther you want to follow through, the farther away
you might want to bridge.
Has anybody seen this done? I don't think I'd believe my own eyes.
Ralph Leslie Davis
>
>
>One of the shots described in Byrne's trick shot looks something like this
>
>__________________________________________________
>| |
>| O |
>| |
>| C |
>| | A
>| |
>| |
>| B |
>| |
>| |
>|________________________________________________|
>
>C= cue ball, O=object ball
>
>The shot is to pocket the object ball with so much draw that the cue ball
>smacks into the short rail near A and hit the opposite short rail near B.
>
Hell, I do this "trick" on 20% of my break shots. I oftentimes hit the
cue so badly (i. e., way below center) that the cue will hit the apex ball,
come relatively straight back (to B), then head on back towards A. I think
the key is long, level, forceful, and perhaps accelerating follow-through.
(And a good amount of chalk!)
Jari Kokko
Ralph Leslie Davis <kro...@leland.Stanford.EDU> wrote:
> Hell, I do this "trick" on 20% of my break shots. I oftentimes hit the
> cue so badly (i. e., way below center) that the cue will hit the apex ball,
> come relatively straight back (to B), then head on back towards A. I think
> the key is long, level, forceful, and perhaps accelerating follow-through.
> (And a good amount of chalk!)
Yeah but it's very different to hit one ball and a rack of balls. Do
it once with a one-ball "triangle", and tell us if you succeed.
Jari
--
URL: http://www.hut.fi/~jkokko - snooker, billiards and Internet Equal Offense.
Jim Ortlieb
>
>
>One of the shots described in Byrne's trick shot looks something like this
>
>__________________________________________________
>| |
>| O |
>| |
>| C |
>| | A
>| |
>| |
>| B |
>| |
>| |
>|________________________________________________|
>
>C= cue ball, O=object ball
>
>The shot is to pocket the object ball with so much draw that the cue ball
>smacks into the short rail near A and hit the opposite short rail near B.
>
I saw Sam Jones take a shot similar to this, but it was a lot more
challenging. He put a ball right in the lip of one of the corner pockets
and put the cue on the lip of the pocket furthest away. He then proceeded
to make the object ball and draw the cue back into the pocket it came from.
I could swear I heard the cue ball leave the table for a second, but my
friend claims it stayed on the cloth the whole time.
Here's the kicker -- he took it one-handed. I saw him make it two out of
three shots.
Lori Jon (his wife) didn't really appreciate Sam taking shots like that in
front of us, but we loved every minute of it.
Sam Jones is probably among the top 3 or so one-handed players in the
world.
Jim
--
***********************************************************************
--- Jim Ortlieb -- aka... Head Junkie of the CrackHouse
or...@midway.uchicago.edu -- and sometimes 1/2 of Amber...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Villanueva
side pocket. For me though, this is very inconsistent.
If I can do this, Mike Massey surely can do better.
-Bryan
Bob Jewett
> What sort of balls do they use in trick shot competition ?
New ones, which means the cue and object balls are close to the same weight.
> (2) what kind of cloth do they compete on ?
New cloth, which means it's fairly slippery. That's good for keeping
draw on the cue ball, but bad for keeping speed when hitting a cushion.
With very slippery cloth, the cue ball tends to retain its follow when
it hits a cushion, which acts to slow the ball down as it moves away
from the cushion. With stickier rails, there may even be a reversal of
draw/follow when the nose of the cushion grabs the cue ball, resulting in a
catapulting of the ball off the cushion.
> (4) how far way from the cue ball would you bridge for this shot ? It has
> seemed to me that the farther you want to follow through, the farther away
> you might want to bridge.
When you shoot hard you need to use a longer bridge.
> Has anybody seen this done? I don't think I'd believe my own eyes.
Massey gave exhibitions at the 1980 BCA eight ball championships. The
tables were 3.5x7. He routinely drew the cue ball two and a half table
lengths. (Object ball near a foot pocket, cue ball behind the head
string, pocket the ball, draw back to the head rail then hit the foot
rail then bounce out to the center of the table.) Massey hits the ball
much harder than you or I ever will. Bet him that he can't do 100
one-armed pushups.
I can some times get two lengths of draw, but I need fast cloth or sticky
rails and a much closer start than the shot above.
Bob Jewett
Bob Jewett
> I could swear I heard the cue ball leave the table for a second, but my
> friend claims it stayed on the cloth the whole time.
How could it stay on the table? He's hitting the ball hard with
significant elevation, unless he's shooting through the webbing of a
leather pocket. Your friend wasn't watching close enough.
Bob Jewett
Jim Ortlieb
That's exactly what I said. With the snap that he achieves in hitting the
cue that hard, it can't possibly stay on the table.
BTW, is that shot easier since the cue is in the air? (I'll assume that
you and I are right....)
Bob Jewett
Imagine a ball with draw bouncing on several hops down the table. In
the air, the ball is not losing draw, but during the landings it loses
draw in steps. If the coefficient of friction is independent of force
(or pressure) then the average amount of draw lost per second is
independent of whether the cue ball is spending most of its time in the
air or not. The hopping cue ball may have extra draw (compared to the
non-hopping cue ball) just before it makes each landing. If the speed
and elevation were such that the cue ball had almost landed when it
struck the object ball, then getting the draw might be easier. On the
other hand, if the cue ball hits the object ball just after a landing,
it might have less than normal draw. In either case, if the cue ball is
well up on the object ball, good draw is unlikely.
Bob Jewett
V I V A L D I
>One of the shots described in Byrne's trick shot looks something like this
>__________________________________________________
>| |
>| O |
>| |
>| C |
>| | A
>| |
>| |
>| B |
>| |
>| |
>|________________________________________________|
>C= cue ball, O=object ball
>The shot is to pocket the object ball with so much draw that the cue ball
>smacks into the short rail near A and hit the opposite short rail near B.
>Has anybody seen this done? I don't think I'd believe my own eyes.
Mike Massey will have you shaking your head at many of his shots.
I'm particulary fascinated with his amazing ability to jump over a full
ball on a length-of-table shot and have the cue draw back the entire
length of the table.
One of my favorite impressive shots (that I can do consistently)
is this one:
-----C-----
\_____________________| |____________________/
\ /
| |
| |
| O |
| | |
| | |
| | B
| | |
| C | |
| |
/ ______________________ _____________________ \
/ ---A--- | | \
The goal here is to pocket the object ball ('O') in the corner and
draw the cue ball ('C') back to the side rail in the vicinity of 'A'
(anywere to the left of the side pocket is ok). From there you want
the cue ball to contact at least three rails and if your good (or lucky)
maybe even four). I marked approx. 2nd and 3rd rail contact points.
These can vary dramatically depending on 1st rail contact point, amount
of spin, and speed of cue ball.
In order to get this must cue ball travel you need to hit the cue
with extreme low as well as left english. The left english will get
the cue to spin on the rails and you should see the cue speed up after
the second rail contact if its done right.
I like it because it looks like you are drawing the cue ball all
the way around the table and because drawing a cue ball to a rail with
english (by english I'm refering only to side) can be very confusing
to a beginner. Many beginners will use the wrong english when they
are backing the ball up.
--
"There will never be a really free and enlightened state until ||||||||||||
the state comes to recognize the individual as a higher and ||||||||||||||||||
independent power, from which all its own power & authority ||V I V A L D I ||
are derived and treats them accordingly." -- H.D. Thoreau |viv...@ksu.ksu.edu
John P Christovassilis
>The shot is to pocket the object ball with so much draw that the cue ball
>smacks into the short rail near A and hit the opposite short rail near B.
>
>Has anybody seen this done? I don't think I'd believe my own eyes.
>>Hell, I do this "trick" on 20% of my break shots. I oftentimes hit the
>>cue so badly (i. e., way below center) that the cue will hit the apex ball,
>>come relatively straight back (to B), then head on back towards A. I think
>>the key is long, level, forceful, and perhaps accelerating follow-through.
>>(And a good amount of chalk!)
I don't think your theory as to why and how this works is correct; the fact
that you are striking into the pack of balls is similar to striking into a
solid (massive) object; the cue ball will come back towards your cushion
(assuming you striked it sufficiently below centre) because it has hit not
only the apex ball, but the whole set of balls. In other words, it would
be much harder to achieve the same effect if you were only hitting, say,
only one ball, even if it was placed on the 'spot'. The power of your
shot is, in effect, "reflected", and it is this that causes the
aforementioned effect.