Spinner/Helicopter
jwilliam
This is my first post to this newsgroup. I've been bowling in leagues
on and off for about five years now. My average has hovered from the
130s to 140s for that time. Due to a childhood injury I'm unable to
hold my right hand palm up, which means that a traditional hook has
always been beyond my ability to throw (my hand begins and ends in the
"handshake" position) which means strikes are a rarity since my ball
is straight for the most part.
I've been trying the Asian-style Spinner throw using a ten pound alley
ball and have met with some success. I've gone from almost no strikes
per game to four or more. I have no problem rotating my arm to the
inside, I just can't rotate it outside. The old fourteen pound ball
is too heavy for me to throw in that manner, so I'm looking for a new
one. Are there any particulars I should be looking for? I've read
that a regular plastic ball can be used but is it the best for that
type of game? And should I be looking for a fingertip drilling or
something conventional? Any information would be greatly appreciated.
I don't want to have to keep using alley balls.
Smokey
> I don't want to have to keep using alley balls.
In reference to my previous reply to Don L, I suggest you visit the Pro Shop
at the center you most frequent. If the operator is Worth His/Her Salt,
he/she will watch you bowl, ask Teh Important Questions, and immediately fix
you up with a suitable ball and drilling to best help you improve, etc. your
game. If you can, after you get a new ball, GET LESSONS to help you with
The Basics. This will also help improve your game (and the enjoyment
thereof).
If you're currently using (ugh!) house shoes, consider getting your own
shoes (i.e. Dexter "Turbos" to start) as it's always better to have your own
shoes!
I hope this helps. Good luck! :)
Jeff Rife
> (my hand begins and ends in the
> "handshake" position)
With my fingertip balls, I can lock my hand and wrist into this position
and get about 50% of the "max" hook I would get if I give it everything
(but, then, I don't throw the big hook).
It's still fairly easy to get the ball to move quite a bit using this
technique...it just limits you to shots that don't go "out and back"
too much. You would need to play more "up the boards", unless you have
a good wall of dry that you can bounce off of.
--
Jeff Rife | "...who paved the way for The Alan Parsons'
SPAM bait: | Project...which I believe was some sort
Ask...@usdoj.gov | of a hovercraft."
sp...@ftc.gov | -- Homer Simpson
Tony R Smith
method of throwing a hook was called the "suitcase" delivery. It is
exactly as you are throwing the ball now (hand in the handshake position
throughout the entire swing and release). A finger-tip drilled ball
released thumb first with the fingers lifting and rotating through the
side of the ball will create a generous amount of hook with the benefit
of much more control than the rip it and grip it bowlers, but with less
power. That said, if you want to continue with a helicopter style of
bowling, it relies on lots of deflection... i.e low friction and weight.
Hard plastic 10-11lb balls are the ball of choice... a big plus since
they are the cheapest balls available.
jwilliam
> jwilliam (jwmc...@hotmail.com) wrote in alt.sport.bowling:
> > (my hand begins and ends in the
> > "handshake" position)
>
> With my fingertip balls, I can lock my hand and wrist into this position
> and get about 50% of the "max" hook I would get if I give it everything
> (but, then, I don't throw the big hook).
>
> It's still fairly easy to get the ball to move quite a bit using this
> technique...it just limits you to shots that don't go "out and back"
> too much. You would need to play more "up the boards", unless you have
> a good wall of dry that you can bounce off of.
Thanks for your reply.
My current ball is drilled in a conventional manner (at least that was
my understanding when it was done). My problem is that throwing it in
the handshake position, with little to no wrist or arm twist, my ball
has very little movement at all, maybe moving a board or two from
right to left (I'm a rightie) which left me with tons of five pins,
and assorted seven and tens as well. Also the speed with which it was
thrown became a tremendous factor. Any additional force would ensure
that whatever movement on the ball was cancelled out. When I started
spinning the ball, what had essentially been a straight ball anyway
suddenly got some pin action and I saw more strikes, which I had a
terrible problem with before.
I've never tried a fingertip ball. What would a ball drilled like
that do differently, in terms of movement, if nothing else changed?
And how does your ball achieve any movement if your hand is in the
handshake position the whole time? I've given up the idea of ever
having an out and back cranked ball, but something besides a straight
ball would be nice. The spinner has helped with that but I'm always
open to suggestions.
The Privateer
"jwilliam" <jwmc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6bbd00ee.04112...@posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> I've been trying the Asian-style Spinner throw using a ten pound alley
> ball and have met with some success. I've gone from almost no strikes
> something conventional? Any information would be greatly appreciated.
> I don't want to have to keep using alley balls.
Hi there! I'm new to the NG but I have some experience with the spinner
style (I'm from Singapore).
A 10lb (max 11) ball is best. Contrary to popular belief, high-end reactive
balls are excellent for spinners, if you can get them in the weight.
Spinners like to use Storms in particular; I would go with mid-price
low-hook ones like Hot Rod etc. Start with polished; when your speed
increases you can use duller balls to get better carry. As long as your
rotation is correct, the ball will not roll out or over-hook.
Drilling should be conventional....thumb is tighter and fingers are looser
than for regular balls, since the thumb comes out -after- the fingers. Thus
house balls are bad, and can cause injury if used this way.
Remember to aim from left to right (e.g. 35 aiming for 30) across the
headpin (for righties). Ideally, the ball should skid 3/4 way down, then
break slightly to the -right-, clipping the headpin on its right, which will
ricochet back to take out the 5 etc.
The issue with single pins you mentioned may be due to aiming like a
conventional hook-bowler. Stand on the left, throwing to the right. Also,
axis of rotation should tilt slightly to the right, so the ball breaks to
the right at the end.
That's it...long-winded but I hope this helps!
--
------------------------
/ The Privateer
alvinwee@_spamless_email.com
[remove _spamless_ to send mail]
jwilliam
<alvi...@spamlessemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>"jwilliam" <jwmc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:6bbd00ee.04112...@posting.google.com...
>> Hi,
>>
>
>> I've been trying the Asian-style Spinner throw using a ten pound alley
>> ball and have met with some success. I've gone from almost no strikes
>
>> something conventional? Any information would be greatly appreciated.
>> I don't want to have to keep using alley balls.
>
>
>Hi there! I'm new to the NG but I have some experience with the spinner
>style (I'm from Singapore).
>
snipped excellent info
>
>That's it...long-winded but I hope this helps!
Thanks for the great information! It's almost impossible to get
information on this style of play locally owing to its lack of
exposure in North America.
For the drilling, should I have them balancing the ball in any
particular manner? When inquiring about a new ball, I was told by the
pro-shop that they could basically drill the better balls so that it
would have a hook on it simply by where they drill it in relation to
its mass. If I'm not looking for it to hook where should the finger
holes be?
It seems like I have noticed a slight 'backup' to my ball when I throw
it that way and my best scores come with hits to the 1-3 side where it
rolls down from there, with no penetration.
When shooting spares, do you put spin on the ball or do you throw a
more traditional straight ball, which might be easy with a high polish
low-curve ball.
Thanks again for any info!
The Privateer
"jwilliam" <mcv...@NcOoSmPaAsMt.net> wrote in message
news:81ncq0diage9e6cmv...@4ax.com...
>
> Thanks for the great information! It's almost impossible to get
> information on this style of play locally owing to its lack of
> exposure in North America.
You're welcome. I guessed as much, since I have never seen anyone play this
style over there.
> For the drilling, should I have them balancing the ball in any
> particular manner?
A conventional label drilling would be best, I believe. The backup comes
from the angle of rotation and not from any lateral weight imbalance that I
know of. I have heard advice that drillers look for balls with more bottom
weight for spinners, but I can't confirm this unfortunately. If you'r
pro-shop only drills hook balls, you might wanna tell them to do a drilling
straight down the label, with 0 side weight. Mass bias shouldn't be an
issue. I think :)
>
> It seems like I have noticed a slight 'backup' to my ball when I throw
> it that way and my best scores come with hits to the 1-3 side where it
> rolls down from there, with no penetration.
Yeah, you should be going for glancing, rather than penetrating impact. The
pins should look like they've been swept in one direction, then back in the
other (ricochet). Better carry is acheived by increasing rotation, and
optimising the ball speed to match lane conditions. Remember to "push" the
ball slightly at release (with the flat of the thumb); it's not really a
muscle-less delivery like hook bowling.
>
> When shooting spares, do you put spin on the ball or do you throw a
> more traditional straight ball, which might be easy with a high polish
> low-curve ball.
Most spinners use the same delivery for both shots...it's just easier! Aim
as you would a straight ball, right down the lane to the pin (not across).
Feel free to drop me an email in case you need more help....let us know how
your search goes!
jwilliam
<tonyr...@myrealbox.com> wrote:
>To add to Jeff's reply... You need three things to create hook...
>Rotation, Axis Angle, and Friction. Releasing the ball properly will
>create the first two. Getting a ball with an aggressive coverstock, or
>at least aggressive enough for the conditions, will create the third.
>Don't expect to hook a plastic ball on oily conditions... very few
>bowlers can do that... but on dry conditions most anybody that releases
>the ball in a suitcase manner will have more hook than they know what to
>do with.
Thanks for the info! I visited my local pro shop and he assured me
that with the technology they use today he could guaranty a hook even
with a pure suitcase release. He also stated that fingertip drilling
was the way to go.
That said there were a number of balls he had in stock that he claimed
might fit the bill, but I'm unfamiliar with what many of the
differences are. He had a Track Sheer Havoc and Crash, a Storm Triple
Xtreme as well as two balls by Colombia, the Jekyll and Hyde. I plan
on going in and picking one up this weekend. Any experience with any
of these balls? I'm searching the internet right now for reviews and
information about their different features but it's difficult to get a
baseline since each manufacturer uses a different scale to measure
their balls' performance.
Tony R Smith
balls out there to get performance. Some pro shop operators will try to
sell you the most expensive balls they have. Pay attention to the
coverstock and get a mid-priced ball and you will probably be very
happy. For example, the Storm Triple Extreme (personally I prefer
Storm's pearl and particle pearl balls - Triple X Factor, Fear Factor,
and X Factor Ace) is a good ball, but you would get more bang for the
buck going with Storm's mid-priced Depth Charge or Recharge. This is the
case with most of the bowling manufacturers. The other balls in your
list are mid-priced balls.
jwilliam
have some higher priced balls but steered me away from them, so I
figured he wasn't being too aggressive or misleading in his
information. The Sheer Havoc fell inbetween the other insofar as
price point. From my reading on the internet I think that may be the
one I purchase. I'll pick his brain some more tomorrow. It's a shame
you can demo bowling balls like you can golf clubs.
On Sat, 27 Nov 2004 04:50:32 GMT, Tony R Smith
Jimmy DeGazz
"Tony R Smith" <tonyr...@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:sITpd.63558$hN1...@twister.socal.rr.com...
> Those are all nice balls... You don't need to buy the most expensive
> balls out there to get performance. Some pro shop operators will try to
> sell you the most expensive balls they have. Pay attention to the
> coverstock and get a mid-priced ball and you will probably be very
> happy. For example, the Storm Triple Extreme (personally I prefer
> Storm's pearl and particle pearl balls - Triple X Factor, Fear Factor,
> and X Factor Ace) is a good ball, but you would get more bang for the
> buck going with Storm's mid-priced Depth Charge or Recharge. This is the
> case with most of the bowling manufacturers. The other balls in your
> list are mid-priced balls.
I have a Storm Hot Wire which I polished and I think it did me well....(I
have it at 1500 grit to go longer) High game 289... an award for 100 pins
over average (178 avg at the time and I missed an 11 in a row award by 1 pin
that night) plus a career high 693 the same night.
The ball cost me $115 two years ago and has been worth every penny. I have
sanded it and polished it.
I am a true believer in Storm balls. I also use an old Ebonite Gyro (pearl
ball). It was my first finget tip grip ball. Get something tame first, then
go from there.You don't want a ball that 'hooks out of the house' to start
with.
Get something mild that you can control and move up as you continue to
progess. My next ball will be a Storm X-Factor Ace. Good luck in the future
jwilliam
I don't know if I could throw a real out and back if I tried. Not
being able to cup the ball (my thumb never gets past the ten o'clock
position) I start and end with my thumb between ten and nine o'clock
which probably means any hook I get will be more from the ball makeup
than anything I'm imparting to it.
NimBill
There are realitvely inexpensive wrist baraces available that would enable you
to manage a conventional hook ball.
The Spinner or Helicopter release is very stressful on the arm even with a 10
pound ball.
jwilliam
Which sort of brace would I be looking for? I have used one for
simple support in the past but it didn't seem to do much good. Is
there another type?
NimBill
>Which sort of brace would I be looking for? I have used one for
>simple support in the past but it didn't seem to do much good. Is
>there another type?
I am partial to the Robby's but there are many others. The reason I like the
Robby's is because I normally do not need it but when I do need it I know its
there.
NimBill
---that it is okay to kill people to make a point---terrorism was always
referred to as being by "foreign" agents.
After the explosion, President Clinton called for FBI agents to be able to
tap phones at will, as they can do now for organized crime. In other words,
not only was there the OKC bombing terroristic act, the Government freedom
terrorists then demanded even greater Police State powers over all of us.
Internet signature in alt.activism.militia...
In 1794, James Madison pointed out "the old trick of turning every
contingency into a resource for accumulating force in the government."
----
I don't know any terrorists or foreign agents.
But the government seems to know plenty of people who are terrorists.
: The New York Times, 2/10/87
: "Is This America?", by Anthony Lewis
:
: She is 22 years old, a student in San Diego, California. She was born
: in Ramallah, in the West Bank, came to this country at the age of 3.
:
: She is an American citizen, of Palestinian origins.
:
: In her own words:
:
* I was studying, alone at the school library, on the night of Jan 28.
* At about 8:30 a large man, 6 feet tall, came up and shoved a paper in
* front of me. It said 'subpoe
jwilliam
wrote:
>Bark Turd-of0SuN <AllBar...@stop-spam.org> cr@pped into usenet
>once again;
>
>
>> Now you could learn how to use followups and quit helping morons flood
>> other NG's.
>
>
>Is that English?
>
>Perhaps you should tell the good folks here that you are the k00k with
>an anger management problem who claims that the US FBI spammed child
>porn to you, *AGAIN!*
>
>Why should anyone listen to someone who would make such a kook-like
>claim?
>
>You are simply angry that you were caught claimming that the FBI
>spammed child pr0n and you can't prove your accusation. You claim to
>fame is making false claims. :(
>
>
>FOAD k00k-boy
Cool! Nut cases have highjacked my thread! I've always wondered what
that would be like.