Black, black, black is the colour ...
HRGI news
catholicism it was connected with the dead; evidently this influenced the
european and american view that black is funereal and depressive. That is
not the case in all cultures. Asians traditionally view black as a joyful
color since it is the riotous presence of all colors. Perhaps the romans
saw black as anarchistic and therefore denigrated it?
Pixel
HRGI news <lar...@hrgi.net> wrote in message
news:89men...@enews2.newsguy.com...
Well, some personal thoughts on this . . .
i know for sure from memory and wardrobe,
i've always worn and owned quite a lot of black clothing.
when we'd go annual school shopping my mother would say,
"Ok, that's six pieces of black clothing, how 'bout some color now?"
Since i am also fond of admitting my recovering Catholic status,
this is yet another tie to my past.
Maybe that explains my draw to black.
i have red hair and find the black to be a nice, swarthy contrast
when i dress.
i certainly don't consider myself a "goth" or a dark queen
especially because of all the tiresome people
who associate themselves with that underground sort of
club movement dress mode gone dark and bad in spirit.
i never felt the need to wear dog chains or corsets
or green lipstick and electrical tape over my nipples.
(i develop film from club people in Baltimore, this costume exists)
Most of these people are hung up on death and deconstruction
They poorly write what me and my friends call "spooky poetry."
You know the old walled in, penchant for suicide and Nine Inch Nails
popping Ecstasy and fixating on fractals.
Stuff that sounds like an absinthe-laden Poe on an extremely
fruitless day of writing.
But i say black is rather striking and they say
"black is beautiful"
though i'm not sure the connotation
can be stretched so far here.
i'd wear a black dress to my own wedding
if i knew i wouldn't get looked at like the Morbid Maiden.
long of the short --- sod the Romans . . .
they also liked Coliseum tiger tactics that were
far less tasteful than sporting black clothing.
that's my story and i'm sticking to it
Orfeo
> > saw black as anarchistic and therefore denigrated it?
it is the colour of anarchy... anarchy is political chaos. chaos is old
night... and all forms of night are black. therefore, black has night's
connotations; fearful, mysterious, alluring...
> i've always worn and owned quite a lot of black clothing.
> when we'd go annual school shopping my mother would say,
> "Ok, that's six pieces of black clothing, how 'bout some color now?"
i don't have any colourful clothing... least everything matchs. well, i
do have a lime-green t-shirt...
> i certainly don't consider myself a "goth" or a dark queen
> especially because of all the tiresome people
> who associate themselves with that underground sort of
> club movement dress mode gone dark and bad in spirit.
obviously a view of american goth! i'm part of the english goth scene,
much more sensible and closer to it's roots. course we also have
vampire-wannabe's and scene-queens, but they're the exception not the
norm.
> i never felt the need to wear dog chains or corsets
ah... but they look SO GOOD... on both girls and boys!
> or green lipstick
green?!? i thought we're talking goth, not 'the exorcist'... ;)
>and electrical tape over my nipples.
painful.
> (i develop film from club people in Baltimore, this costume exists)
oh i know it does... it's one good point is that it's brilliant to dance
in, especially with UV body paint! it's also really cheap. if bondage
tape is used, it's much less painful...
> Most of these people are hung up on death and deconstruction
i'm not. ok, i am... but from a romantic sense... ie, poetic.
> They poorly write what me and my friends call "spooky poetry."
i write poetry... sniffle... i'm not a sterotype!
> You know the old walled in, penchant for suicide and Nine Inch Nails
suicide? don't think goths are more suicidal than the average person.
nine inch nails... well, it's not really goth music, but some of it is
good, and some is good to dance too...
> popping Ecstasy and fixating on fractals.
nahh. that's ravers. goths do speed and fixate on the next drink or next
shag. ;)
> Stuff that sounds like an absinthe-laden Poe on an extremely
> fruitless day of writing.
poe's not all depressing! he did actually do some faerie stuff,
people... and absinthe is a great spirit, just for itself... honest,
i've tried the real stuff. it's like vodka with a (nice?) taste... sort
of.
> But i say black is rather striking
and easy to co-ordinate...
> i'd wear a black dress to my own wedding
> if i knew i wouldn't get looked at like the Morbid Maiden.
impressive.
> long of the short --- sod the Romans . . .
> they also liked Coliseum tiger tactics that were
> far less tasteful than sporting black clothing.
no need to sod the romans- they did it willingly. i think black's rep
does come from the association with night. the celt's colour of morning
was green, you know- hence robin hood in green was a sort of
death-spirit; same as jack-in-the-green and others... why green for
death? not sure; poison maybe, but i think grass, etc, was close to the
underworld... of course to the celts, water=door to hell... and water,
as in lakes, rivers, is usually more green than blue.
> that's my story and i'm sticking to it
sure... just had to defend (one of) my lifestyles. not all goths are
pricks... honest!
-orfeo
--
"And pleasent is the Faerieland,
But, an eerie tale to tell,
At the end of seven years
We pay a tiend to hell."
-Tam Lin, 16th century Scottish Ballad
Remove the Faerie Arrows to reply
Pixel
Hey Orf,
i'm hoping i caused no offense,
'cuz i like you and respect you and all,
but the "American Goth" scene
as you put it, is EXACTLY what i was commenting on.
There are some true non-descript attention seekers
who make for a bad reputation.
> ... and absinthe is a great spirit, just for itself...
honest, i've tried the real stuff.
oh i can imagine, i know all the history
my fiance and i own a home brew shop
we can concoct such a thing ---
we even carry the necessary herbs,
wormwood too.
> > They poorly write what me and my friends call "spooky poetry."
> i write poetry... sniffle... i'm not a sterotype
i know this! i like your stuff :)
i'm talking about that REEEELY bad
"it was a dark night" scene littered with
gratuitous, incorrect mention of the word "soul."
As for Poe, don't get me wrong there,
did i mention i live near his old house
here in Maryland, and i do really like him.
My fiance is related to him on his mother's side
and to Samuel Clemens (good ol' Mark Twain)
on his father's side.
Having both in my family now requires me to have respect
for both elements of dark and humor.
> not all goths are pricks... honest!
and i have learned thusly,
thanks Orf
:)
HRGI news
> was green, you know- hence robin hood in green was a sort of
> death-spirit; same as jack-in-the-green and others... why green for
> death? not sure; poison maybe, but i think grass, etc, was close to the
> underworld... of course to the celts, water=door to hell... and water,
> as in lakes, rivers, is usually more green than blue.
>
Thanks for info, Orfeo; wasn't consciously aware of this archetypal
signification.
Perhaps this underlies my wearing of the black-watch plaid since the
beginning
of this year.
Lutin
Orfeo
> as you put it, is EXACTLY what i was commenting on.
> There are some true non-descript attention seekers
> who make for a bad reputation.
americans. typical. tch.
> oh i can imagine, i know all the history
> my fiance and i own a home brew shop
> we can concoct such a thing ---
mmm. home brew!
OTO, i've heard that the american version of absinthe is to steep
wormwood in vodka or pernod- yeck. what a waste!
> i know this! i like your stuff :)
> i'm talking about that REEEELY bad
> "it was a dark night" scene littered with
> gratuitous, incorrect mention of the word "soul."
the spirit or the music genre? ;)
> Having both in my family now requires me to have respect
> for both elements of dark and humor.
i think poe's quite humourous...
Jadite Le Fae
Jadite Le Fae
especially after this midsummer,
heehee,
Orfy, i'm killing off Jadite Le Fae,
and returning as Jadite Fatana Nocturne,
pretencious, i know,
but it's my Vampyre Dark Eldar-Fae side..
mmm BritGoth is definitely a bit nearer its
Punk roots than USGoth, that's sooo clubby and *urgh*
i'm saving up for my first corset...
--
Jadite
The Faerie
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Mark Gerard Miller
"HRGI news" <lar...@hrgi.net> wrote:
> What is it with black? Why is it 'gothic'? In the symbolism of roman
> catholicism it was connected with the dead; evidently this influenced
the
> european and american view that black is funereal and depressive.
That is
> not the case in all cultures. Asians traditionally view black as a
joyful
romans
> saw black as anarchistic and therefore denigrated it?
>
I assume black is associated with death and evil because it is the
color of night, when the unknown things walk the earth. It is not just
in the West that black is associated with the yin aspect. Here is an
excerpt from the article on colours from an Illustrated Encyclopedia of
Traditional Sybmols, by J.C. Cooper:
BLACK: Primordial darkness; the non-manifest; the Void; evil; the
darkness of death; shame; despair; destruction; corruption; grief;
sadness; humiliation; renunciation; gravity; sadness; constancy. Black
also signifies Time, hard, pitiless and irrational and is associated
with the dark aspect of the Great Mother, especially as Kali who is
Kala, Time, and with Black Virgins. Black or blue-black is connected
with mourning and with the sinister aspect of witchcraft, black magic
and black arts. It is the colour of Cronos/Saturn (also as Time) and
the number 8. Alchemic: The absence of colour; the first stage of the
Great Work; dissolution; fermentation; the sinister; descent into hell.
Amerindian: The North; mourning; night, as opposed to the red of day.
Buddhist: The darkness of bondage. Chinese: The North, yin; Winter;
water; the Tortoise among the Four Spiritually Endowed Animals.
Christian: The Prince of Darkness; Hell; death; sorrow; mourning;
humiliation; spiritual darkness; despair; corruption; evil arts. It is
the colour used for masses for the dead and for Good Friday. Egyptian:
Rebirth and resurrection. Hebrew (Qabalism): Understanding; the
Kingdom. Heraldic: Prudence; wisdom. Hindu: The tamas; sensual and
downward movement; Time, the dark aspect of Kali and Durga. Mayan:
Death of an enemy.
And from the same book, the article on
NIGHT: Like darkness, night signifies the pre-cosmogenic, pre-natal
darkness preceding rebirth or initiation and illumination, but it is
also chaos; death; madness; disintregation; reversion to the foetal
state of the world. Night is also, according to Hesiod, the "Mother of
the Gods", the enveloping, maternal aspect of the feminine power;
usually symbolized by a female figure with a star-spangled veil,
holding a child, one black (death) and one white (sleep), on either
arm; or by the crescent moon, or poppies, or the owl, or black wings.
As all-devouring time, day and night can be depcted as a white and
black rat. Going by night symbolizes esotericism.
Mark, with thanks to J.C. Cooper
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