Battery Life : Estimated and Experienced
ferryic9
Does anyone know how to estimate a battery's life, based on its Amp-hour
rating, designated DoD, its cycle , etc...???
And, based on your experience, how often do you change your batttery ???
What is the battery brand (Trojan, AGM, etc), model, and life cycle ???
Any response is very appreciated.....
TIA....
Ferry Irawan
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GEG
Kalo batere yang spesial untuk solar cell - yang arus charge dan
rechargenya
kecil (memang didisain untuk itu) bisa mencapai 4-5 tahun, dan biasanya
maintenance free.
Selain itu umur juga tergantung perawatan - batere tidak boleh terlalu
terkuras isinya (deep discharge) dan tidak terlalu banyak/lama diisi
(overcharge) - di sini harus diperhatikan jenis regulator yang
digunakan.
Salam,
Mario Wiradjaja
Project Development Manager
Green Energy Group, Pte. Ltd.
22 Jeruk Nipis - Jakarta 11510 - INDONESIA
Tel: +62-21-5682135 Fax: +62-21-56961440
George Ghio
<ferryN...@process.paume.itb.ac.id.invalid> wrote:
>Hi....
>
>Does anyone know how to estimate a battery's life, based on its Amp-hour
>rating, designated DoD, its cycle , etc...???
>
>And, based on your experience, how often do you change your batttery ???
>What is the battery brand (Trojan, AGM, etc), model, and life cycle ???
>
>Any response is very appreciated.....
>
>TIA....
>
>Ferry Irawan
>
Yes. By far the best way to estimate the life of a battery is to look
at the Warranty and add 30 seconds.
A lead acid battery stores a chemical reaction. Therefor every time you
charge/ discharge the battery you use up some of the chemicals
involved. Also the greater the depth of discharge the more chemical
used = fewer cycles. When the chemical is gone the battery is dead.
Now I have a friend who bought ex Telecom 200Ah 2 volt batteries. At
the time of purchase the batteries were 10 years old. He has used these
batteries for the last 15 years and is now looking for new batteries.
25 years is a good run for a set of lead acid batteries. So how was it
done? First he started with well made batteries. Second he looked after
them very well. They were stored at a constant temp. of around 20-25
degrees. kept the water up to them and kept them clean and seldom took
more than 20 per cent out of them.
The batteries I sell have an 84 month warranty. Most batteries only
have 36 months. And more than a few only offer 12 months. The
manufacturer knows what their batteries will do under normal conditions
and cover that. Why be suprised when the battery is dead after 2 years
if the thing was only worth a 12 month warranty. Any life after the
warranty is up to you.
A good set of batteries that are well looked after should last 20 - 25
years. The choice is yours. You can buy one set of batteries for $xxxx
or three or more sets of batteries for $xxx in the next 20 years.
George L. Ghio
Solar Power Consultant
>
>
>
>
--
DON"T PANIC! If in doubt run in circles scream and shout.
Nick Pine
>>Does anyone know how to estimate a battery's life, based on its Amp-hour
>>rating, designated DoD, its cycle , etc...???
And continues with a peculiar theory of battery lifetime:
>A lead acid battery stores a chemical reaction. Therefor every time you
>charge/ discharge the battery you use up some of the chemicals
>involved. Also the greater the depth of discharge the more chemical
>used = fewer cycles. When the chemical is gone the battery is dead.
What's the chemical that gets depleted, George?
Nick
Warren Lauzon
--
----------------------------------------------------------
Electricity from the sun since 1979
http://www.windsun.com/ (info & specs)
http://stores.yahoo.com/wind-sun/ (online store)
----------------------------------------------------------
"Nick Pine" <ni...@ufo.ee.vill.edu> wrote in message
news:83qrju$c...@ufo.ee.vill.edu...
Sylvan Butler
>A lead acid battery stores a chemical reaction. Therefor every time you
>charge/ discharge the battery you use up some of the chemicals
>involved. Also the greater the depth of discharge the more chemical
That's nonsense.
A rechargable battery uses by definition a reversible chemical
reaction. They wear out because of abuse or because mechanically they
fall apart inside (usually because of abuse but eventually due to
migration of metal particles during charge/discharge cycles).
sdb
--
Do NOT send me unsolicited commercial e-mail (UCE)!
Watch out for munged e-mail address.
User should be sylvan and host is cyberhighway.net.
ferryic9
maintenance)
Based on its, designated DoD, cycle, and Amp-hours rating.......
BtW, How wouuld you define "good maintenance" ????
ferryic9
<eamjNO...@centrin.net.id.invalid> wrote:
> Hi, biasanya batere mobil 1-2 thn masih bisa berfungsi dengan baik
Hi......seneng nich ternyata ada juga orang Indonesia yang
nanggepin......
Anda menulis ini di Remarq - alt.solar.photovoltaic
>Hi, biasanya batere mobil 1-2 thn masih bisa berfungsi dengan baik Kalo
batere yang spesial untuk solar cell -
>yang arus charge dan rechargenya kecil (memang didisain untuk itu) bisa
mencapai 4-5 tahun, dan biasanya maintenance free.
>Selain itu umur juga tergantung perawatan - batere tidak boleh terlalu
terkuras isinya (deep discharge) dan tidak
>terlalu banyak/lama diisi (overcharge) - di sini harus diperhatikan
jenis regulator yang digunakan.
So....???
Bagaimana kita memprediksi life cycle dari battery itu......
Kan kalau kita mau mendesain aplikasi sistem PV, kita harus
memperhitungkan pergantian komponen sistem PV itu.....
battery, charge regulator, inverter, dsb.....
Nah, berdasarkan spesifikasi dari si manufacturer, bagaimana kita
memprediksi life-time dari komponen-komponen tersebut.....
(dalam hal ini battery)........
Rasanya ini sangat penting, terutama untuk aplikasi PV di Indonesia
(rural application).........
>Mario Wiradjaja Project Development Manager
>Green Energy Group, Pte. Ltd.
>22 Jeruk Nipis - Jakarta 11510 - INDONESIA
>Tel: +62-21-5682135 Fax: +62-21-56961440
Kalau boleh tahu, kegiatan Green Energy Group ini apa aja sih......ada
website-nya enggak ????.....dan kalau e-mail address anda di mana ????
Soalnya saya mau diskusi dengan Anda nich tentang PV di Indonesia .....
Best regards,
Ferry Irawan
GEG
>Bagaimana kita memprediksi life cycle dari battery
>itu...... Kan kalau kita mau mendesain aplikasi
>sistem PV, kita harus memperhitungkan pergantian
>komponen sistem PV itu.....
>battery, charge regulator, inverter, dsb.....
>Nah, berdasarkan spesifikasi dari si manufacturer, bagaimana
>kita memprediksi life-time dari komponen-komponen tersebut.....
>(dalam hal ini battery)........
Kita ambil rata2 aja, dengan asumsi 2 & 5 tahun seperti
yang saya bilang sebelumnya, walaupun sebetulnya dengan
maintenance yang baik (dengan memasang regulator charge
yang oke) umurnya bisa jauh lebih lama.
Yang penting batere jangan sampai terkuras habis dan
jangan tersambung dengan PV lama kalau sudah penuh.
e-mail saya: ea...@centrin.net.id
Green Energy adalah perush. yangbergerak di bidang
pembangkitan listrik yang ramah lingkungan, dengan tenaga
angin dan matahari.
Sementara homepage belum ada, namun kalo mau lihat
barang2 yang kita jual (khusus solar) bisa ke:
www.total-energie.fr dan www.photowatt.com
Kalau liat pricelist di situ tolong jangan dijadikan
referensi - karena harga mereka di situ tinggi untuk
memproteksi agen-agen mereka yang tersebar di seluruh
dunia.
Salam,
Mario Wiradjaja
George Ghio
<ferryN...@process.paume.itb.ac.id.invalid> wrote:
>But still......how to estimate its life ????? (assuming good
>maintenance)
>
>Based on its, designated DoD, cycle, and Amp-hours rating.......
>
Triple the warranty would be a fair guess.
>BtW, How wouuld you define "good maintenance" ????
>
Good maintenance is keeping the battery - clean - in a good state of
charge - at an acceptable temp. 25C is the ideal - keep all connections
tight - and maintain electrolyte levels.
>
>
>
>* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
>The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
--
George Ghio
Pine) wrote:
>George Ghio <gh...@netconnect.com.au> fails to answer the question:
>
>>>Does anyone know how to estimate a battery's life, based on its Amp-hour
>>>rating, designated DoD, its cycle , etc...???
>
>And continues with a peculiar theory of battery lifetime:
>
>>A lead acid battery stores a chemical reaction. Therefor every time you
>>charge/ discharge the battery you use up some of the chemicals
>>involved. Also the greater the depth of discharge the more chemical
>>used = fewer cycles. When the chemical is gone the battery is dead.
>
>What's the chemical that gets depleted, George?
>
>Nick
Nick
How are you?
Please accept the numbers in brackets as the number of molecules.
During discharge the sulphuric acid reacts with both PB(lead) and
PBO(2)(lead oxide) The reaction is -
Pb + PbO(2) + 2H(2)SO(4)-----2PbSO(4) + 2h(2)O
During charging the reaction is reversed. The greater the discharge the
the greater the reaction. The material loss is for the most part lead
oxid which fails to recombine with the plates. This is also the sludge
in the bottom of the battery. This deterioration can of course be
accelerated by abuse of the battery i.e. leaving in a low state of
charge for long periods.
This loss of lead oxide over maney years use depletes the lead
available for the chemical reaction. Ultimaetly the battery fails.
Battery manufactures will wrap the lead in fiberglass, put it in tubes
or mix it with a bit of Antimony in an effort to slow down this loss.
I beleive that the electrolyte also degrades over the years as well.
If you disagree with this perhaps you will explain to us why a lead
acid battery does not last forever. If you think you can don't forget
to get the patent first.
George Ghio
xsylvan...@cyberhighway.net (Sylvan Butler) wrote:
>George Ghio (gh...@netconnect.com.au) on Wed, 22 Dec 1999 00:51:30 +0100 wrote:
>>A lead acid battery stores a chemical reaction. Therefor every time you
>>charge/ discharge the battery you use up some of the chemicals
>>involved. Also the greater the depth of discharge the more chemical
>>used = fewer cycles. When the chemical is gone the battery is dead.
>
>That's nonsense.
>
>A rechargable battery uses by definition a reversible chemical
>reaction.
Yes but that chemical reaction is not 100 percent efficient. You loose
a fraction on each exchange.
They wear out because of abuse or because mechanically they
>fall apart inside (usually because of abuse but eventually due to
>migration of metal particles during charge/discharge cycles)
This is in part true. When the sludge builds up in the bottom of the
battery the plates will short.
But what about glass packed or tubular plate batteries in a static
situation. Are you saying that if you stop the sulphation (Which is the
oxide made from the sulphur from the sulphuric acid and oxygen from the
water) from falling off the plates the battery will last forever. I
think not.
George
>
>sdb
>--
>Do NOT send me unsolicited commercial e-mail (UCE)!
>Watch out for munged e-mail address.
>User should be sylvan and host is cyberhighway.net.
--
David Kunz
: George Ghio <gh...@netconnect.com.au> fails to answer the question:
: >>Does anyone know how to estimate a battery's life, based on its
: >>Amp-hour rating, designated DoD, its cycle , etc...???
: And continues with a peculiar theory of battery lifetime:
: >A lead acid battery stores a chemical reaction. Therefor every
: >time you charge/ discharge the battery you use up some of the
: >chemicals involved. Also the greater the depth of discharge the
: >more chemical used = fewer cycles. When the chemical is gone the
: >battery is dead.
: What's the chemical that gets depleted, George?
No chemical reaction get depleted -- it's still there. The chemical
reaction is reversible. I believe that there are 2 things that happen
that finally kill the battery. First, the reaction puts lead back --
but not put back exactly where it came off and the plates gradually
erode. Second, some of the reaction process is difficult to reverse
so the reversal is incomplete (lead sulphate?). Gradually, this
reduces the materials available for the reaction which reduces the
capacity of the battery. You *could* call this 2nd a depletion, but
not in the sense that I read the original post (which read more like a
throw-away battery).
--
David Kunz
Operator error. Replace operator and strike any key to continue...
bikerbabe in black leather
ferryic9 <ferryN...@process.paume.itb.ac.id.invalid> wrote:
>Hi....
>
>rating, designated DoD, its cycle , etc...???
>
>What is the battery brand (Trojan, AGM, etc), model, and life cycle ???
>
>Any response is very appreciated.....
My first serious battery bank was a 12kW bank of Trojan T105s that I
abused severely. They lasted 5 years. Before that I had been getting
2-3 years on what was essentially large tractor starting batteries
(hey, I got them really cheap). I now have a ~25 kW bank of L16s.
They are almost a year old. We'll see how much life I get out of
them, but I expect at least 7-8 years.
--
Anmar Mirza # Tranquility is an intentional community project, we're looking
EMT-D TBTW10# for people to join. http://php.indiana.edu/~amirza/tranquil.htm
N9ISY (tech)# Have sawmill, will travel.
EOL DoD#1147# http://php.indiana.edu/~amirza/home.html
Sylvan Butler
>In article <83rdd1$k6f$1...@news.cyberhighway.net>,
>xsylvan...@cyberhighway.net (Sylvan Butler) wrote:
>>George Ghio (gh...@netconnect.com.au) on Wed, 22 Dec 1999 00:51:30 +0100 wrote:
>>>involved. Also the greater the depth of discharge the more chemical
>>>used = fewer cycles. When the chemical is gone the battery is dead.
>>
>>That's nonsense.
>>
>>A rechargable battery uses by definition a reversible chemical
>>reaction.
>Yes but that chemical reaction is not 100 percent efficient. You loose
>a fraction on each exchange.
Not of the chemicals. They are all still present.
>They wear out because of abuse or because mechanically they
>>fall apart inside (usually because of abuse but eventually due to
>>migration of metal particles during charge/discharge cycles)
>This is in part true. When the sludge builds up in the bottom of the
>battery the plates will short.
Correct. Or the plates will have lost so much they begin to buckle.
Another reason why plates buckle is because the lead doesn't form back
in exactly the same mechanical configuration it was prior to discharge.
This results in weak spots or even bulges.
> But what about glass packed or tubular plate batteries in a static
>situation. Are you saying that if you stop the sulphation (Which is the
>oxide made from the sulphur from the sulphuric acid and oxygen from the
>water) from falling off the plates the battery will last forever. I
>think not.
If you prevent sulfation (and you mostly can), and if you prevent
sloughing of the active metals (really cannot) or provide a deep well
for them to fall into (like an L16 as compared to T105), and if you can
keep redeposition evenly onto the plates (not really feasible but this
is a minor issue with a deep cycle batt) then yes, a battery would last
forever. The only consumption is energy and gassing.
You supply energy (110%-150% of what was taken out during discharge),
you minimize gassing (to avoid splashing electrolyte out of the cell)
and replenish the water, a battery is as near to an infinite machine as
we can build. It is pretty darn close.
kc8adu
Nick Pine wrote:
> George Ghio <gh...@netconnect.com.au> wrote:
>
> >...When charging, the gas given off is Hydogen Sulphide. True/False.
> >If you say true where does the Sulphide come from...
>
> False. Just hydrogen, George. H2S is very poisonous.
> Why not stick to welding?
>
> Nick
--
remove ns. to reply.
too much spam!
all spam reported!
ya junkmail me ya lose your account!
George Ghio
xsylvan...@cyberhighway.net (Sylvan Butler) wrote:
So there is no chemical loss. When charging, the gas given off is
Hydogen Sulphide. True/False. If you say true where does the Sulphide
come from. Where does the Sulphur in the sulphation on the plates com
from. These are only a part of the losses. The lead is used up as well.
the hydogen of course is from the water as is oxegen. Part of the
oxegon is released as gas and some combines with sulpher to form the
sulphation. As for the Active Metals that fail to recombine this is
just a part of the inefficiency of the chemical reaction and equils a
Chemical loss. Reread the part about my friends 25 year old batteries.
He has kept them in the best condition possable. No buckled or other
wise shorted plates. The sludge in the bottom does not touch the
plates. There is just not enough chemical to react enough to hold a
charge. Get real.
Merry Christmas
George
>
>sdb
>--
>Do NOT send me unsolicited commercial e-mail (UCE)!
>Watch out for munged e-mail address.
>User should be sylvan and host is cyberhighway.net.
--
George Ghio
da...@clark.net (David Kunz) wrote:
>Nick Pine (ni...@ufo.ee.vill.edu) wrote:
>
>: George Ghio <gh...@netconnect.com.au> fails to answer the question:
>
>: >>Does anyone know how to estimate a battery's life, based on its
>: >>Amp-hour rating, designated DoD, its cycle , etc...???
>
>: And continues with a peculiar theory of battery lifetime:
>
>: >A lead acid battery stores a chemical reaction. Therefor every
>: >time you charge/ discharge the battery you use up some of the
>: >chemicals involved. Also the greater the depth of discharge the
>: >more chemical used = fewer cycles. When the chemical is gone the
>: >battery is dead.
>
>: What's the chemical that gets depleted, George?
>
>No chemical reaction get depleted -- it's still there. The chemical
>reaction is reversible. I believe that there are 2 things that happen
>that finally kill the battery. First, the reaction puts lead back --
>but not put back exactly where it came off and the plates gradually
>erode. Second, some of the reaction process is difficult to reverse
>so the reversal is incomplete (lead sulphate?). Gradually, this
>reduces the materials available for the reaction which reduces the
>capacity of the battery. You *could* call this 2nd a depletion, but
>not in the sense that I read the original post (which read more like a
>throw-away battery).
>
David they are throw away batteries. But if you start with well made
batteries and look after them properly you won't throw them away for
many years. The lead is not removed and put back it just changes state
where it is.
Merry Christmas
George
>--
>David Kunz
>Operator error. Replace operator and strike any key to continue...
--
Solar and Wind Electric
X8=$480 they lasted 5 years under heavy abuse and 4 teenagers,VCRs tape
players extra washing, dishwasher computers,and lights left on, 5X365
days in a year divided into $480 is not a bad figure to live with
Teenagers are now gone ,Married off and 8 New Trojans should last a lot
longer.To me it is the number of deep discharge cycles in a battery that
govern there life usually any manufacturer will state them in their
literature about 300 on a golf cart lead acid type but at above low
monthly cost and lead recycled I see no problem in only expecting and
replacing every 5 years. Thanks Group for being here. Jump into Solar
get hands dirty and
experience it for yourself. Paul
One Day Today.Friend of Bill W.&Dr Bob.
http://community.webtv.net/paulm47/PaulsSolarWind
Nick Pine
Woodsy
>
> Does anyone know how to estimate a battery's life, based on its Amp-hour
> rating, designated DoD, its cycle , etc...???
>
> What is the battery brand (Trojan, AGM, etc), model, and life cycle ???
>
> Any response is very appreciated.....
In 1994 I purchased 14 reconditioned Interstate (Econo power) golf cart
batteries (200AH@6VDC).
Charged with NAPA starter/charger when on wimpy genset power.
Charged normally by Onan 2.5LK's internal charger (designed for
2*220AH*6VDC).
They where used for 12VDC lighting,radio in house when genset not on.
I experimented with 36VDC inverter for about 2 weeks,a couple of months ago,
found they did not have the power (AH) that I needed in 36VDC configuration.
I had lost a couple of them to neglect in the years prior, so only had
400AH@36VDC.
With a car alternator/5HP Honda/rheostat combo, charging was
much better,easier to get the C/X rate set.(although it was far from
automatic)
With a major upgrade spurred by the 36VDC inverter,I how have 2*510AH@24VDC
forklift batteries.
(again reconditioned)
These are recharged every day (automatically!!!) by Trace 4024 controlling
10KW NG GenSet.
This is much better (radical understatement), but not as much fun as
maintaining
all those connections/cells/cranky genset(s) not to mention the "yes honey,
I will go start
the house so you can shower/microwave/watch TV" aspect of it.
These batteries are over 5 years old, with many deep discharge cycles, and
lots of TLC,
water checked regularly,distilled only added, and seem to be going strong.
Note that they now are hooked to Generac 10000EXL's charge circuit(way to
high voltage)
and only used for emergency lighting (if Trace feed drops, 12VDC lighting
will kick on in the
circuits that are on) and the radio,so the self discharge rate is higher
than my power draw
from them.
More specific to your questions, treat them like they are expensive and
valuable- keep
them temperate and dry, don't cycle them to deep, over size the capacity,
and most any battery
suitable for the job should give you years of service.
A smart charging system is the best investment.
Frank,
HTH
Off the road,Off the grid,Off my rocker....
Nick Pine
>...what is the foul odor given off by a charging battery?
H2S smells foul even in miniscule amounts. Slightly less miniscule
concentrations kill sewer workers when they open or enter a manhole.
Nick
George Ghio
Pine) wrote:
>Sorry Nick wrong again. Just the smell is enough to give hydrogen sulphide away.
High school chemistry 101. Q. Whats that rotten egg smell?
A. Hydrogen Sulphide! The other gas is Oxygen.
George
>Nick
George Ghio
Pine) wrote:
First. Thank you for conceding the point on Hydrogen Sulphide out
gassing. As you point out Hydrogen Sulphide can be smelled in small
concentrations. But the loss is still there. The fact that it is a
small loss is why a batteries last as long as they do. In the end
though chemical depletion will cause the battery to fail no matter how
well you look after it. Of course if you do not look after it it's life
will be considerably less, the choice is up to the owner.
Second. Nobody ever said that Lead Acid batteries were safe to use in
enclosed spaces. In fact proper venilation is always recommended.
The formula for ventalation is;
A = 100 q/v cm2
Where q/v is the minimum exhaust ventilation in litres
per second and = 0.006 x n x I
n = The number of battery cells
I = the charging rate in Amps (this is taken as the
maximum output rating of the charger or the rating of it's output fuse
or circuit breaker).
George
George Ghio
<ferryN...@process.paume.itb.ac.id.invalid> wrote:
>But still......how to estimate its life ????? (assuming good
>maintenance)
>
>Based on its, designated DoD, cycle, and Amp-hours rating.......
>
>BtW, How wouuld you define "good maintenance" ????
>
>
>But still......how to estimate its life ????? (assuming good
>maintenance)
>
>Based on its, designated DoD, cycle, and Amp-hours rating.......
>
>BtW, How wouuld you define "good maintenance" ????
ferric9
Look Im sorry that this gotten into a debate on how batteries work.
Nick is just mad at me because I don't beleave every thing he says.
What do you mean by battery life? How long you can run a load before
recharging or how many years the battery will last. I read it as the
latter. My answer was ment to convey the fact that there are so many
things that affect battery life that an estimate could vary by years
depending on use and maintaince. At a guess triple the warranty and any
thing beyond this is a bonus.
If you meant how long you could draw a load that is easy.
Battery amp hour rating divided by Load amps.
Example: Battery 100 Ah - Load 5 A
100 divided by 5 = 20 Hours This answer could be discounted by 10 per
cent for a margin for inefficiences with in the battery.
Hope this is of use
George
>
>
>
>* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
>The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
--
ferryic9
wrote:
> Look Im sorry that this gotten into a debate on how batteries work.
No problem......every opinion is very appreciated.....
> I read it as the latter.
Yes it is....
> If you meant how long you could draw a load that is easy.
> Battery amp hour rating divided by Load amps.
> Example: Battery 100 Ah - Load 5 A
> 100 divided by 5 = 20 Hours This answer could be discounted by 10
> percent for a margin for inefficiences with in the battery.
I ssume this is what we call one cycle of discharge.....
How to relate it to Depth of Discharge ????
I once take a loot at the DoD VS cycle graphic from Concorde AGM
batteris, and from what I figure out : a 50% DoD will give the battery
more cycles than a 80% DoD.....and hence a longer life
Do you agree with this ????
BtW, you wrote in the previous article :
> The formula for ventalation is;
>
> A = 100 q/v cm2
>
> Where q/v is the minimum exhaust ventilation in litres per second and
= 0.006 x n x I
What is A ??? (area = cm2)
I am still a newbie on this ventilation thing......
Would you please give me some further explanation ?????
Should we use some cooling fan ????? How to choose the right one ????
George Ghio
<ferryN...@process.paume.itb.ac.id.invalid> wrote:
>In article <251219991119151056%gh...@netconnect.com.au>, George Ghio
>wrote:
>> Look Im sorry that this gotten into a debate on how batteries work.
>
>No problem......every opinion is very appreciated.....
>
>> I read it as the latter.
>
>Yes it is....
>
>> If you meant how long you could draw a load that is easy.
>> Battery amp hour rating divided by Load amps.
>> Example: Battery 100 Ah - Load 5 A
>> 100 divided by 5 = 20 Hours This answer could be discounted by 10
>> percent for a margin for inefficiences with in the battery.
>
>I ssume this is what we call one cycle of discharge.....
Yes.
>How to relate it to Depth of Discharge ???
DoD is not a constant. If you have a 100Ah battery and you use 100Ah
then the battery is effectivly flat. It will still read voltage on a
meter. It is not recommended to run your batteries in thes manner. I
suppose that this could be considered as 100 per cent DoD based on the
rating of the battery. i.e. You started with 100Ah you used 100Ah you
have nothing left of the batteries designed rating even though it still
reads 10.5 volts. Other people might consider that 100 per cent DoD as
nothing left in the battery at all. It all depends on what you are
trying to determine.
>
>I once take a loot at the DoD VS cycle graphic from Concorde AGM
>batteris, and from what I figure out : a 50% DoD will give the battery
>more cycles than a 80% DoD.....and hence a longer life
>Do you agree with this ????
Yes. The shallower the cycle the more cycles you get.
>
>BtW, you wrote in the previous article :
>> The formula for ventalation is;
>>
>> A = 100 q/v cm2
>>
>> Where q/v is the minimum exhaust ventilation in litres per second and
>= 0.006 x n x I
>
>What is A ??? (area = cm2)
A = The cross sectional area of the vent(area = cm2) This could be 1
six inch pipe or 2 - 4 inch pipes. If the battery enclosure is out side
the ventilation could be no more than a 2 inch gap at the top and
bottom of the doors.
>
>I am still a newbie on this ventilation thing......
>Would you please give me some further explanation ?????
>Should we use some cooling fan ????? How to choose the right one ????
I have never found a need for a fan. Hydrogen is very hard to keep
down. If you provide an upward escape path it wont hang around.
At risk of upsetteing some people if you do not vent to the out side
then there is the risk of the hydrogen sulphide recondensing as a mild
sulpheric acid solution. Electronic equipment should not be exposed to
this as over time it can destroy the soldered joints. Most manufactures
of inverters will not warrant against this type of damage.
If you feel that a fan is needed due to the run of the vent then the
safest is to put the fan on the inlet side. Hydrogen is explosive over
a wide range of concentrations. Better safe eh.
George
>
>
>
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Mathew
Mario Wiradjaja
It's Indonesian actually
Mathew <m...@kuentos.guam.net> wrote in message
news:Pine.BSD/.3.91.991226094426.16235J-100000@saba.kuentos.guam.net...
Nick Pine
>At risk of upsetteing some people if you do not vent to the out side
>then there is the risk of the hydrogen sulphide recondensing...
At -60.7 C (-77.3 F)? Do you still believe that batteries make lots of H2S,
George? It causes lung paralysis and instant death at a concentration of
4,000 ppm (0.4%), as a couple of sewer workers found out in 1966 when
they opened a manhole in a stiff breeze...
Happy Boxing Day,
Nick
George Ghio
Pine) wrote:
Nick
Hope you had a good Christmas.
I don't think that I ever said that batteries produce "lots" of H2S.
Only that it is a by product of charging.
As for being dangerous it most certainly is. It is not only poisonous
but corrosive as well. Probably explains why it is not wise to build
your battery box out of metal.
Over the space of a year you can get enough residue in an unvented room
to cause damage to electronics. In fact Selectronics who make inverters
out here with a life time warranty will not cover this type of damage
and consider it to be proof that you did not meet there installation
specs.
Mind you if you have your batteries in an un vented room and enter with
a cigarette in your mouth you won't live long enough to die from H2S
poisoning.
George
Nick Pine
>>>...there is the risk of the hydrogen sulphide recondensing...
>>At -60.7 C (-77.3 F)? Do you still believe that batteries make lots of H2S?
>I don't think that I ever said that batteries produce "lots" of H2S.
>Only that it is a by product of charging.
Here's what you said on Mon Dec 27 11:07:16 EST 1999:
>...When charging, the gas given off is Hydogen Sulphide.
What did you mean by "the"?
Nick
Nick Pine
>>>I don't think that I ever said that batteries produce "lots" of H2S.
>>Here's what you said on Mon Dec 27 11:07:16 EST 1999:
>>>...When charging, the gas given off is Hydogen Sulphide.
>>What did you mean by "the"?
>The same thing you ment when you said on 24 Dec
>False. Just hydrogen, George. H2S is very poisonous.
There is no "the" in the text above, George. I hereby nominate you
"Fuzzy Thinker of the Millennium."
Why not stick to welding?
Nick
George Ghio
Pine) wrote:
>George Ghio <gh...@netconnect.com.au> wrote:
>
>>>>...there is the risk of the hydrogen sulphide recondensing...
>
>>>At -60.7 C (-77.3 F)? Do you still believe that batteries make lots of H2S?
>
>>I don't think that I ever said that batteries produce "lots" of H2S.
>>Only that it is a by product of charging.
>
>Here's what you said on Mon Dec 27 11:07:16 EST 1999:
>
>>...When charging, the gas given off is Hydogen Sulphide.
>
>What did you mean by "the"?
The same thing you ment when you said on 24 Dec
False. Just hydrogen, George. H2S is very poisonous.
Why not stick to welding
Which was followed by another on 24Dec
H2S smells foul even in miniscule amounts. Slightly less miniscule
concentrations kill sewer workers when they open or enter a manhole.
So now we have two components, but there is also Oxygen as well so now
we have three. There are more I'm sure but not relevant to this
disccusion.
As far as the use of the term "recondensing" I will concede that
"recombining" or perhaps just "combining" (with moisture) would be more
accurate as far as the science is concerned. But the end product is
still dilute sulpherc acid which will destroy electronics given enough
time.
Now the point is that when your Inverter drops dead it dosn't make any
difference if it happens in a week or a year. If the cause is damage
due to corrosion you may find it hard to make a warranty claim.
If you dont believe in this theory may I suggest that you store your
wifes best lace table cloth on a shelf over your batteries. Or perhaps
just store your batteries under your computer. After all it is
perfectley safe. Isn't it? I have seen corragated iron sheds that have
had the zinc stripped from the inside surface in less than ten years.
Just curious do you use Solar Power or grid power?
George Ghio
Pine) wrote:
>George Ghio <gh...@netconnect.com.au> wrote:
>
>>>>I don't think that I ever said that batteries produce "lots" of H2S.
>
>>>Here's what you said on Mon Dec 27 11:07:16 EST 1999:
>
>>>>...When charging, the gas given off is Hydogen Sulphide.
>
>>>What did you mean by "the"?
>
>>The same thing you ment when you said on 24 Dec
>
>>False. Just hydrogen, George. H2S is very poisonous.
>
>There is no "the" in the text above, George. I hereby nominate you
>"Fuzzy Thinker of the Millennium."
Your right you did not use the word "the" you just said "only Hydrogen"
Then said the Smell was "H2S" And no mention of Oxygon at all.
Thanks for the complement. Some of the greatest inventions and
discoveries are the results of fussy thinking. In fact "Fuzzy Logic" is
much sought after in computing systems.
Perhaps you should stick to checking spelling
>
>Why not stick to welding?
>
>Nick
--