Solar at the community level
thepixelfreak
Just wondering.
How can we change (via incentives) the Housing industry and Solar
industry such that solar panels could be installed at the time a house
is built and included in the initial cost of the home thereby
benefiting through economies of scale. I'm talking about the big home
builders etc.
Imagine entire neighborhoods where each home has high efficiency, grid
connected solar panels. Take that image further and imagine hundreds of
thousands of homes nationwide using solar panels as an electricity
source.
thoughts?
--
thepixelfreak
do...@90.usenet.us.com
> How can we change (via incentives) the Housing industry and Solar
> industry such that solar panels could be installed at the time a house
> is built and included in the initial cost of the home thereby
> benefiting through economies of scale. I'm talking about the big home
> builders etc.
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/partner/story?id=47110
http://www.gosolarcalifornia.org/communities/list.html
--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5
Morris Dovey
> How can we change (via incentives) the Housing industry and Solar
> industry such that solar panels could be installed at the time a house
> is built and included in the initial cost of the home thereby benefiting
> through economies of scale.
Send all professors teaching architecture courses to live in unheated
barracks in North Dakota for a full year starting on the first of March...
...and divide up the incomes of the non-survivors to increase the
salaries of the successful survivors.
Could also require that architectural, construction, and HVAC
contracting firms and their executives, managers, and foremen be
required to reimburse homebuyers for 2/3 of the heating and
air-conditioning costs for all new construction.
:-)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
thepixelfreak
> thepixelfreak <n...@dot.com> wrote:
>> How can we change (via incentives) the Housing industry and Solar
>> industry such that solar panels could be installed at the time a house
>> is built and included in the initial cost of the home thereby
>> benefiting through economies of scale. I'm talking about the big home
>> builders etc.
>
> http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/partner/story?id=47110
> http://www.gosolarcalifornia.org/communities/list.html
Thanks!
--
thepixelfreak
nicks...@ece.villanova.edu
>thepixelfreak wrote:
>
>> How can we change (via incentives) the Housing industry and Solar
>> industry such that solar panels could be installed at the time a house
>> is built and included in the initial cost of the home thereby benefiting
>> through economies of scale.
>
>Send all professors teaching architecture courses to live in unheated
>barracks in North Dakota for a full year starting on the first of March...
I've heard some architecture schools require students to build themselves
small shelters and live in them. The Jersey Devil Design/Build Princeton
architects arrive at a site, build themselves shelters, then build
the client a house with their own hands, then move on.
>...and divide up the incomes of the non-survivors to increase the
>salaries of the successful survivors.
Architects should be paid more and do more serious solar heating.
The arithmetic is no more complex than simple beam calculations.
>Could also require that architectural, construction, and HVAC
>contracting firms and their executives, managers, and foremen be
>required to reimburse homebuyers for 2/3 of the heating and
>air-conditioning costs for all new construction.
PE Norman Saunders estimates the need to "purchase heat" in his solar
houses using Gaussian statistics, in the same way that other engineers
predict 100 year floods. In one case, he told his clients they might
have to purchase heat once every 35 years. With that kind of serious
engineering, it's not unreasonable for a designer to guarantee to pay
100% of a client's fuel bills for 20 years, or maybe collect 20% of
the conventional minus the actual fuel bills for 20 years, or get it
all up front, with some sort of performance bond.
Nick
Morris Dovey
> Morris Dovey <mrd...@iedu.com> wrote:
>
>> thepixelfreak wrote:
>>
>>> How can we change (via incentives) the Housing industry and Solar
>>> industry such that solar panels could be installed at the time a
>>> house is built and included in the initial cost of the home
>>> thereby benefiting through economies of scale.
>> Send all professors teaching architecture courses to live in
>> unheated barracks in North Dakota for a full year starting on the
>> first of March...
>
> I've heard some architecture schools require students to build
> themselves small shelters and live in them. The Jersey Devil
> Design/Build Princeton architects arrive at a site, build themselves
> shelters, then build the client a house with their own hands, then
> move on.
Wow! I was being facetious, but this sounds like a great program. Given
that the program does already exist, let's advocate for making
successful completion a prerequisite for tenure in any/all architecture
teaching positions? Hmm - federal funding of the program to include a
cash bonus for completion within the first five years of the program.
>> ...and divide up the incomes of the non-survivors to increase the
>> salaries of the successful survivors.
>
> Architects should be paid more and do more serious solar heating. The
> arithmetic is no more complex than simple beam calculations.
Dunno - we already have a perception that architects are unaffordable
except to the affluent. Beware of invoking the Law of Unintended
Consequences. If you want to push for higher fees, then I think it'd be
a good idea to also push for a certain amount /pro bono/ services.
>> Could also require that architectural, construction, and HVAC
>> contracting firms and their executives, managers, and foremen be
>> required to reimburse homebuyers for 2/3 of the heating and
>> air-conditioning costs for all new construction.
>
> PE Norman Saunders estimates the need to "purchase heat" in his solar
> houses using Gaussian statistics, in the same way that other
> engineers predict 100 year floods. In one case, he told his clients
> they might have to purchase heat once every 35 years. With that kind
> of serious engineering, it's not unreasonable for a designer to
> guarantee to pay 100% of a client's fuel bills for 20 years, or maybe
> collect 20% of the conventional minus the actual fuel bills for 20
> years, or get it all up front, with some sort of performance bond.
After I posted, it occurred to me that an "early out" after some trial
period (say five years or so) might make sense if actual heating costs
fell below some threshold value.
That would allow phasing-in new (improving) performance standards in
much the same way that auto mileage standards are upgraded - and might
avoid a sudden ballooning of new home prices.
The downside is that no matter how it's handled the scheme imposes a
number of real burdens on small homebuilders - the challenge will be to
provide them with the education they need (It's not just the architects
who need better education).
We Can Do It
<>> How can we change (via incentives) the Housing industry
and Solar
>> industry such that solar panels could be installed at the
>> time a house
>> is built and included in the initial cost of the home
>> thereby
>> benefiting through economies of scale. I'm talking about
>> the big home
>> builders etc.
Start the rolling blackouts and keep the price of oil and gas
increasing. It will only be a matter of time and off grid
heating and cooling will be in demand.
The OP's question is kinda like "how do we teach Americans to
be more self sufficient?" Just close all the grocery stores
and gas stations, give everyone a rifle a shovel and some
seeds and in 20 years all what's left will be very self
sufficient. Without a BIC lighter most Americans cant light a
cigarette let alone kill and dress some meat and cook it over
a fire they lit themselves. I think a lot of kids these days
couldn't tell you where milk comes from other than the
refrigerator.
As long as we can waste energy like there is no tomorrow and
delay paying for it we will waste energy like there is no
tomorrow.
peace
dawg
j...@nrgmanager.com
this is a huge hurdle to overcome, one i have dealt with for years.
generally everone wants the alt energy stuff but only until after the
fact do they figure it out. at the present time building a house is a
myriad of choices from the get go, so adding renewables to the mix
will add to this.
my recommendation would be to have the banking system require a rough
estimate of renewable pricing at the time of first submittal of plans
before the loan is initiated. there is such a thing as an EEM (energy
efficient mortgage) problem there is no bank knows what it is? banks
really ought to be brought up to speed on this stuff at the financing
level, cuz there is some profits to be had there. Well Fargo is big
time inot large scale systems. generally at all bank, if you walked in
the local branch with some plans and asked for a loan they wouldnt
require any awareness or due diligence on renewables. this is just
wrong the banker should hand them a form that requests some simple
info.
i have always promoted code changes as well. these however are a
little late in the process, they may work though, but a little late i
think for budgeting.
so the first point of financing, the bank should require some basic
renewable due diligence.