#Governor of New Jersey Halts Train Tunnel
5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09
Governor of New Jersey Halts Train Tunnel
By PATRICK McGEEHAN
Published: October 7, 2010
The largest public transit project in the nation, a commuter train tunnel
under the Hudson River connecting New Jersey to Manhattan, was halted on
Thursday by Gov. Chris Christie because, he said, the state could not
afford its share of the project’s rising cost.
Mr. Christie’s decision stunned other government officials and advocates
of public transportation because work on the tunnel was under way and $3
billion of federal financing had already been arranged — more money than
had been committed to any other transit project in America.
The governor, a Republican, said he decided to withdraw his support for
the project on Thursday after hearing from state transportation officials
that the project would cost at least $2.5 billion more than its original
price of $8.7 billion. He said that New Jersey would have been
responsible for the overrun and that he could not put the taxpayers of
the state “on what would be a never-ending hook.”
In scrapping the project, Mr. Christie is forfeiting the $3 billion from
the federal government and jeopardizing as much from the Port Authority
of New York and New Jersey. The state may also have to repay the federal
government for its share of the $600 million that has already been spent
on the tunnel.
The tunnel, which would have stretched under the Hudson from North
Bergen, N.J., to a new station deep below 34th Street in Manhattan, was
intended to double the number of trains that could enter the city from
the west each day. The project’s planners said the additional trains
would alleviate congestion on local roads, reduce pollution, help the
growth of the region’s economy and raise property values for suburban
homeowners.
The tunnel was also supposed to provide jobs for 6,000 construction
workers just as some other big transit infrastructure projects in the
city, like the Second Avenue subway, were winding down.
Instead, the contractors hired to dig the tunnel will soon start laying
off workers.
“This was the project that I think everyone was counting on to revitalize
the public-works sector,” said Denise M. Richardson, managing director of
the General Contractors Association of New York. “For construction
workers that were counting on job opportunities, it’s a real blow to
them.”
Mr. Christie admitted that the cancellation would be costly but he said
it would be more prudent for the state to withdraw sooner rather than
later. He said he also expected to be able to redirect the Port
Authority’s $3 billion to other projects in the state, though he did not
identify any.
When Mr. Christie told Ray LaHood, the federal transportation secretary,
about his decision, Mr. LaHood demanded to meet with the governor to
discuss the matter further. The two were scheduled to meet on Friday, but
Mr. Christie gave no indication that he could be swayed.
Mr. Christie’s decision also packed a wallop for the elected officials
and transit advocates who spent most of the last two decades cobbling
together the design for the tunnel. Several of them criticized the
governor for rushing to a judgment that they said would hamstring the
region’s economy long into the future.
Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, who had supported the project, said New York
City did not have the money to help New Jersey pay for the overruns.
The tunnel was a project of New Jersey Transit. The Port Authority, which
gets its money from tolls, committed $3 billion for the plan after
allocating billions of dollars for the rebuilding of the World Trade
Center site.
Just a month ago, Mr. Christie abruptly ordered a temporary halt to
spending on the tunnel while state transportation officials reviewed its
costs. The review found that the cost would probably exceed $11 billion
and could be higher than $14 billion.
Some critics said they suspected that the governor had decided to divert
the money in highway tolls that the state would have spent on the tunnel
to road and bridge repairs. The state’s fund for such transportation
improvements is nearly empty and the governor has ruled out raising the
state’s gasoline tax to replenish it.
“Two decades or more in the planning and then 30 days or less to kill
it,” said Kate Slevin, executive director of the Tri-State Transportation
Campaign, a group that had advocated building the tunnel.
Ms. Slevin said Mr. Christie’s sudden turnabout was unprecedented. “We’ve
seen delays on transit projects before,” she said, “but never when the
financing was as solid as it was on this.”
The tunnel, known as Access to the Region’s Core, or the ARC tunnel,
would have been used exclusively by New Jersey Transit, the state-run
operator of commuter trains and buses. The agency’s trains have shared a
two-track tunnel, nearly 100 years old, with Amtrak.
The tunnel was a pet project of Mr. Christie’s predecessor, Jon S.
Corzine, and the state’s two senators, Frank R. Lautenberg and Robert
Menendez. Those three Democrats were joined by some Republican
legislators at a ground-breaking ceremony in North Bergen last year that
was intended to demonstrate bipartisan support.
But it was left to Democrats like Mr. Lautenberg to criticize Mr.
Christie for backing out of the project. “Killing the ARC tunnel will go
down as one of the biggest public policy blunders in New Jersey’s
history,” Mr. Lautenberg said. “Without increased transportation options
into Manhattan, New Jersey’s economy will eventually be crippled.”
Mr. Christie said he was prepared for such criticism and charges that he
had flip-flopped on his position about the tunnel. But he suggested that
he had been misled about the true costs of the project and who would pay
for it.
Then, reinforcing his reputation for audacity, the governor called on the
senators who had the secured the $3 billion in federal money for the
tunnel to try again, for a less costly project.
5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09
> "5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09" <dea...@deadduz.com> wrote:
>
>>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/08/nyregion/08tunnel.html?_r=1&hp
>>
>>Governor of New Jersey Halts Train Tunnel
>
>>The largest public transit project in the nation, a commuter train
>>tunnel under the Hudson River connecting New Jersey to Manhattan, was
>>halted on Thursday by Gov. Chris Christie because, he said, the state
>>could not afford its share of the project’s rising cost.
>>
>>Mr. Christie’s decision stunned other government officials and
advocates
>>of public transportation because work on the tunnel was under way and $3
>>billion of federal financing had already been arranged — more money
than
>>had been committed to any other transit project in America.
>
>>The governor, a Republican, said he decided to withdraw his support for
>>the project on Thursday after hearing from state transportation
>>officials that the project would cost at least $2.5 billion more than
>>its original price of $8.7 billion. He said that New Jersey would have
>>been responsible for the overrun and that he could not put the taxpayers
>>of the state “on what would be a never-ending hook.”
>
>>Just a month ago, Mr. Christie abruptly ordered a temporary halt to
>>spending on the tunnel while state transportation officials reviewed its
>>costs. The review found that the cost would probably exceed $11 billion
>>and could be higher than $14 billion.
>
> THAT took balls. It was already projected to be $2.5B over budget and
> probably billions more. All for a makework program from federal pork
> that NJ would have had to spend billions of its own money on. It was a
> rat hole, not the kind of tunnel they claimed.
It'll cost NJ a lot more than that in lost revenues, and of course,
that's not even counting the money already spent and now wasted. It was
one of the most fiscally foolish moves I've ever seen a politician make.
And what authority did he have on that? Doesn't the lege there have a
say?
>
> Attaboy Christie. It takes courage to make tough decisions like this.
> He's looking more and more like the GOP presidential candidate we need.
>
>>Then, reinforcing his reputation for audacity, the governor called on
>>the senators who had the secured the $3 billion in federal money for the
>>tunnel to try again, for a less costly project.
>
> Excellent leadership. We need an audacious leader to help us out of the
> trouble that the entrenched fixtures from both parties have put us in
> over the decades.
Foxtrot
>Foxtrot wrote:
>
>> "5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09" <dea...@deadduz.com> wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/08/nyregion/08tunnel.html?_r=1&hp
>>>
>>>Governor of New Jersey Halts Train Tunnel
>>
>>>The largest public transit project in the nation, a commuter train
>>>tunnel under the Hudson River connecting New Jersey to Manhattan, was
>>>halted on Thursday by Gov. Chris Christie because, he said, the state
>>>could not afford its share of the project?s rising cost.
>>>
>>>Mr. Christie?s decision stunned other government officials and
>advocates
>>>of public transportation because work on the tunnel was under way and $3
>>>billion of federal financing had already been arranged ? more money
>than
>>>had been committed to any other transit project in America.
>>
>>>The governor, a Republican, said he decided to withdraw his support for
>>>the project on Thursday after hearing from state transportation
>>>officials that the project would cost at least $2.5 billion more than
>>>its original price of $8.7 billion. He said that New Jersey would have
>>>been responsible for the overrun and that he could not put the taxpayers
>>>of the state ?on what would be a never-ending hook.?
>>
>>>Just a month ago, Mr. Christie abruptly ordered a temporary halt to
>>>spending on the tunnel while state transportation officials reviewed its
>>>costs. The review found that the cost would probably exceed $11 billion
>>>and could be higher than $14 billion.
>>
>> THAT took balls. It was already projected to be $2.5B over budget and
>> probably billions more. All for a makework program from federal pork
>> that NJ would have had to spend billions of its own money on. It was a
>> rat hole, not the kind of tunnel they claimed.
>
>It'll cost NJ a lot more than that in lost revenues, and of course,
>that's not even counting the money already spent and now wasted.
Bingo. Have you ever heard of throwing good money after bad?
Foxtrot
><dea...@deadduz.com> wrote:
>> Foxtrot wrote:
>> > THAT took balls. It was already projected to be $2.5B over budget and
>> > probably billions more. All for a makework program from federal pork
>> > that NJ would have had to spend billions of its own money on. It was a
>> > rat hole, not the kind of tunnel they claimed.
>>
>> It'll cost NJ a lot more than that in lost revenues, and of course,
>> that's not even counting the money already spent and now wasted. It was
>> one of the most fiscally foolish moves I've ever seen a politician make.
>>
>> And what authority did he have on that? Doesn't the lege there have a
>> say?
>>
>That's the problem with people like this. They can't see the forest
>for the trees. They look at everything and what it costs, and they
>refuse to see the benefit. Imagine if hundreds of thousands of people
>could give up their overpriced Manhattan loft for an affordable condo
>in Jersey and still work at their high paying job in Manhattan,
>without having to deal with the huge traffic jams and the $8 admission
>fee you have to pay to go into Manhattan, and the $30 a day parking
>fees? Instead, they could pay $15 to park in New Jersey, pay $5 to
>take a train into Manhattan, and live and pay taxes in New Jersey. If
>"only" 100,000 people do that, that's a few hundred million in tax
>revenues every single year, not to mention all the jobs that would be
>created in businesses to cater to these people, to build the housing
>they'll need, etc.
>
>Since when is shortsighted and stupid considered "bold"?
You're assuming that the tunnel is the only way to accomplish it.
The last paragraph:
Then, reinforcing his reputation for audacity, the governor called
on the senators who had the secured the $3 billion in federal money
for the tunnel to try again, for a less costly project.
You're also assuming the train fare will be cheap, $5 a pop. With
all those cost overruns, the money has to come from somewhere.
Either higher fares or taxpayer subsidies.
Dr. Barry Worthington
> "5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09" <dea...@deadduz.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Governor of New Jersey Halts Train Tunnel
> >under the Hudson River connecting New Jersey to Manhattan, was halted on
> >Thursday by Gov. Chris Christie because, he said, the state could not
> >afford its share of the project’s rising cost.
>
> >Mr. Christie’s decision stunned other government officials and advocates
> >of public transportation because work on the tunnel was under way and $3
> >billion of federal financing had already been arranged — more money than
> >had been committed to any other transit project in America.
> >The governor, a Republican, said he decided to withdraw his support for
> >the project on Thursday after hearing from state transportation officials
> >that the project would cost at least $2.5 billion more than its original
> >price of $8.7 billion. He said that New Jersey would have been
> >responsible for the overrun and that he could not put the taxpayers of
> >the state “on what would be a never-ending hook.”
> >spending on the tunnel while state transportation officials reviewed its
> >costs. The review found that the cost would probably exceed $11 billion
> >and could be higher than $14 billion.
>
No.....just stupidity....
Dr. Barry Worthington
> It was already projected to be $2.5B over budget
> and probably billions more. All for a makework program from federal
> pork that NJ would have had to spend billions of its own money on. It
> was a rat hole, not the kind of tunnel they claimed.
>
> Attaboy Christie. It takes courage to make tough decisions like this.
> He's looking more and more like the GOP presidential candidate we
> need.
>
> >Then, reinforcing his reputation for audacity, the governor called on the
> >senators who had the secured the $3 billion in federal money for the
> >tunnel to try again, for a less costly project.
>
> Excellent leadership. We need an audacious leader to help us out
> of the trouble that the entrenched fixtures from both parties have
> put us in over the decades.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Phlip
> Obviously you have never had to go into Manhattan from New Jersey, as
> literally millions of people do every day. It would alleviate traffic
> problems, it would cut the commute for hundreds of thousands of people
> every single day, and in the end, it would end up making more money
> for the state of New Jersey than it would cost.
>
> That's the problem with you wingers; you see the cost of everything
> and the value of nothing.
It would have saved gas.
We can't have THAT !!!
5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09
Well. Such as...?
5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09
Have you heard of throwing out the baby with the bath water?
>
Gary DeWaay
says...
> >>> THAT took balls. It was already projected to be $2.5B over budget and
> >>> probably billions more. All for a makework program from federal pork
> >>> that NJ would have had to spend billions of its own money on. It was a
> >>> rat hole, not the kind of tunnel they claimed.
> >>
> >>It'll cost NJ a lot more than that in lost revenues, and of course,
> >>that's not even counting the money already spent and now wasted.
> >
> >Bingo. Have you ever heard of throwing good money after bad?
>
> Have you heard of throwing out the baby with the bath water?
>
Wasn't it just a few months ago Pubs were bitching that not enough of
the stimulus was for infrastructure?
--
How's That Oily Drilly Thing Working Out For Ya?*
-Digby
Gary DeWaay
dea...@deadduz.com says...
> > THAT took balls. It was already projected to be $2.5B over budget and
> > probably billions more. All for a makework program from federal pork
> > that NJ would have had to spend billions of its own money on. It was a
> > rat hole, not the kind of tunnel they claimed.
>
> It'll cost NJ a lot more than that in lost revenues, and of course,
> that's not even counting the money already spent and now wasted. It was
> one of the most fiscally foolish moves I've ever seen a politician make.
...and from the sounds of it, there are a ton of people that WANT this
tunnel because it is so needed. And people vote.
I suspect he will refund this in 30 days.
The only people that will think this is a great idea are the Tea Bagger
Hooverites (like Fauxy.)
5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09
Probably. They like to whine that something is too hot and too cold
simultaneously. They hate spending money on the infrastructure unless
the money is going someplace worse, such as health care or food for
poor children.
born again reactionary
wrote:
The project should have been stopped sooner.
Phlip
Yeah, before 6 000 people got their hopes up for a job.
Steve
<healthcr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>That's the problem with people like this.
That's the problem for Milt shook...
only a moron like Milt shook would use a sock puppet
with an e-mail address that googles to his web page.
Steve
<healthcr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Oct 8, 5:32 am, Foxtrot <foxt...@null.com> wrote:
>> "5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09" <dea...@deadduz.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/08/nyregion/08tunnel.html?_r=1&hp
>>
>> >Governor of New Jersey Halts Train Tunnel
>> >The largest public transit project in the nation, a commuter train tunnel
>> >under the Hudson River connecting New Jersey to Manhattan, was halted on
>> >Thursday by Gov. Chris Christie because, he said, the state could not
>> >afford its share of the project’s rising cost.
>>
>> >Mr. Christie’s decision stunned other government officials and advocates
>> >of public transportation because work on the tunnel was under way and $3
>> >billion of federal financing had already been arranged — more money than
>> >had been committed to any other transit project in America.
>> >The governor, a Republican, said he decided to withdraw his support for
>> >the project on Thursday after hearing from state transportation officials
>> >that the project would cost at least $2.5 billion more than its original
>> >price of $8.7 billion. He said that New Jersey would have been
>> >responsible for the overrun and that he could not put the taxpayers of
>> >the state “on what would be a never-ending hook.”
>> >Just a month ago, Mr. Christie abruptly ordered a temporary halt to
>> >spending on the tunnel while state transportation officials reviewed its
>> >costs. The review found that the cost would probably exceed $11 billion
>> >and could be higher than $14 billion.
>>
>> THAT took balls. It was already projected to be $2.5B over budget
>> and probably billions more. All for a makework program from federal
>> pork that NJ would have had to spend billions of its own money on. It
>> was a rat hole, not the kind of tunnel they claimed.
>
>Obviously you have never had to go into Manhattan from New Jersey, as
>literally millions of people do every day. It would alleviate traffic
>problems, it would cut the commute for hundreds of thousands of people
>every single day, and in the end, it would end up making more money
>for the state of New Jersey than it would cost.
>
>That's the problem with you wingers; you see the cost of everything
>and the value of nothing. It would make it more feasible for people
>who work in Manhattan to live in New Jersey. That means more
>residents, more housing and more taxpayers. People who are now paying
>$2000 for a room in Manhattan would be able to rent three rooms in New
>Jersey and pay taxes on their Manhattan salary. Someone would have to
>build all those new homes and condos in New Jersey, and someone will
>have to open new businesses to cater to all of those new residents.
>And the people who already live in New Jersey will now be able to
>afford to go into Manhattan to work at a job.
>>
>> Attaboy Christie. It takes courage to make tough decisions like this.
>> He's looking more and more like the GOP presidential candidate we
>> need.
>
>He's looking more like a jerk. Now they have a half-built tunnel that
>someone will have to finish later, at a much higher cost. He just
>screwed his stated out of hundreds of millions a year in tax revenues
>for the next hundred years or more.
So here's Milt Shook, back to get his butt kicked some more...
See below:
Steve
<healthcr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Oct 8, 5:32 am, Foxtrot <foxt...@null.com> wrote:
>> "5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09" <dea...@deadduz.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/08/nyregion/08tunnel.html?_r=1&hp
>>
>> >Governor of New Jersey Halts Train Tunnel
>> >The largest public transit project in the nation, a commuter train tunnel
>> >under the Hudson River connecting New Jersey to Manhattan, was halted on
>> >Thursday by Gov. Chris Christie because, he said, the state could not
>> >afford its share of the project’s rising cost.
>>
>> >Mr. Christie’s decision stunned other government officials and advocates
>> >of public transportation because work on the tunnel was under way and $3
>> >billion of federal financing had already been arranged — more money than
>> >had been committed to any other transit project in America.
>> >The governor, a Republican, said he decided to withdraw his support for
>> >the project on Thursday after hearing from state transportation officials
>> >that the project would cost at least $2.5 billion more than its original
>> >price of $8.7 billion. He said that New Jersey would have been
>> >responsible for the overrun and that he could not put the taxpayers of
>> >the state “on what would be a never-ending hook.”
>> >Just a month ago, Mr. Christie abruptly ordered a temporary halt to
>> >spending on the tunnel while state transportation officials reviewed its
>> >costs. The review found that the cost would probably exceed $11 billion
>> >and could be higher than $14 billion.
>>
5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09
>> The project should have been stopped sooner.
>
> Yeah, before 6 000 people got their hopes up for a job.
And thousands of commuters saw a chance to save themselves lots of money
and aggravation, and an increase in property values brought about by
enhanced access to the commercial capital of the country.
5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09
Yeah. Who needs an economy anyway?
Foxtrot
>dea...@deadduz.com says...
>> > THAT took balls. It was already projected to be $2.5B over budget and
>> > probably billions more. All for a makework program from federal pork
>> > that NJ would have had to spend billions of its own money on. It was a
>> > rat hole, not the kind of tunnel they claimed.
>>
>> It'll cost NJ a lot more than that in lost revenues, and of course,
>> that's not even counting the money already spent and now wasted. It was
>> one of the most fiscally foolish moves I've ever seen a politician make.
>...and from the sounds of it, there are a ton of people that WANT this
>tunnel because it is so needed. And people vote.
>
>I suspect he will refund this in 30 days.
>
>The only people that will think this is a great idea are the Tea Bagger
>Hooverites (like Fauxy.)
The way I read the article, New Jersey faces unlimited costs after
the fed put up the first $3B. Who'd want to get stuck in a project with
unlimited costs? Especially when the unions have a chance to suck
them dry.
Looks like Christie amputated the leg with the gangrene rather than
let it kill the state. Tough luck but funds are limited.
Salty Stan
> On Fri, 8 Oct 2010 08:27:43 -0700 (PDT), Hank
>
> >That's the problem with people like this.
>
> That's the problem for Milt shook...
>
> only a moron like Milt shook would use a sock puppet
> with an e-mail address that googles to his web page.
>
LOL - thanks - that's my laugh for today!
5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09
Actually, he cut off the leg just to annoy his left foot.
Salty Stan
No it won't. Once again you have no idea what you're talking about
Zepp.
New Jersey has the highest tax burden in the nation. And we have one
of the worst budget shortfalls -last I heard about 2 billion dollars.
(So much for "we can solve everything by raising taxes")
We put Christie in to straighten out the mess (thanks Democrats) and
he has to make the tough calls. He stopped the project because we do
not have the money to pay for it.
It's that simple. We do not have the money to pay for it.
How's that again? We do not have the money to pay for it.
Now before you open your big stupid mouth again Zepp, come live here
and pay NJ taxes for a while, and then see our pothole filled roads,
failing education system, crime-ridden cities like Jersey City and
Newark - and then you tell us how we should run our affairs.
I'm sure a Canadian who has never been here knows far better what we
should do than we ourselves can.
-
Phlip
> New Jersey has the highest tax burden in the nation. And we have one
> of the worst budget shortfalls -last I heard about 2 billion dollars.
> (So much for "we can solve everything by raising taxes")
And prosperity will allow a low tax rate to collect high tax revenues.
That's the goal state.
You get prosperity via investment, not arbitrary "austerity" that
always mysteriously transfers yet more burden to the middle class.
Now whine about the cost of the wars in the middle east. The tunnel
would have cost - what - 25 minutes of those wars?
Not Sure
> In article <oasua61h2cj62sp9spb7ug616vt2t97...@4ax.com>, dead@dead
> says...
>
> > >>> THAT took balls. It was already projected to be $2.5B over budget and
> > >>> probably billions more. All for a makework program from federal pork
> > >>> that NJ would have had to spend billions of its own money on. It was a
> > >>> rat hole, not the kind of tunnel they claimed.
>
> > >>It'll cost NJ a lot more than that in lost revenues, and of course,
> > >>that's not even counting the money already spent and now wasted.
>
> > >Bingo. Have you ever heard of throwing good money after bad?
>
> > Have you heard of throwing out the baby with the bath water?
>
> Wasn't it just a few months ago Pubs were bitching that not enough of
> the stimulus was for infrastructure?
Continue being too scared to do anything but slob Zepp's knob, hooker :
(
Dr. Barry Worthington
wrote:
Are there courses in transport economics in American universities? Do
politicians ever attend them?
Dr. Barry Worthington
Foxtrot
>Foxtrot <fox...@null.com> wrote:
>>You're assuming that the tunnel is the only way to accomplish it.
>>
>>The last paragraph:
>>
>> Then, reinforcing his reputation for audacity, the governor called
>> on the senators who had the secured the $3 billion in federal money
>> for the tunnel to try again, for a less costly project.
>
>Well. Such as...?
Let independent engineers decide, not money grubbing politicians
who want to buy votes.
You want the federal government to decide every aspect of your
life, don't you?
Steve
I also note that this time Milt posted his "Hank" sock puppet from the
same IP address as he posted as Milt Shook... Milt is apparently
trying to prove that ignorance can be chronic.
Steve
...and all those people expected the nanny government to spend money
it didn't have...
Phlip
wrote:
> Are there courses in transport economics in American universities? Do
> politicians ever attend them?
>
> Dr. Barry Worthington
No. Those universities only teach advanced gambling, and how to
collect profit while distributing risk to the middle classes...
Gary DeWaay
fox...@null.com,Foxtrot says...
>
> Gary DeWaay <dewaay2...@sio.midco> wrote:
>
> >dea...@deadduz.com says...
> >> > THAT took balls. It was already projected to be $2.5B over budget and
> >> > probably billions more. All for a makework program from federal pork
> >> > that NJ would have had to spend billions of its own money on. It was a
> >> > rat hole, not the kind of tunnel they claimed.
> >>
> >> It'll cost NJ a lot more than that in lost revenues, and of course,
> >> that's not even counting the money already spent and now wasted. It was
> >> one of the most fiscally foolish moves I've ever seen a politician make.
>
> >...and from the sounds of it, there are a ton of people that WANT this
> >tunnel because it is so needed. And people vote.
> >
> >I suspect he will refund this in 30 days.
> >
> >The only people that will think this is a great idea are the Tea Bagger
> >Hooverites (like Fauxy.)
>
> The way I read the article, New Jersey faces unlimited costs after
> the fed put up the first $3B. Who'd want to get stuck in a project with
> unlimited costs
A state that needs to employ 6000 people and also NEEDS a tunnel, like
desperately?
Especially when the unions have a chance to suck
> them dry.
>
> Looks like Christie amputated the leg with the gangrene rather than
> let it kill the state. Tough luck but funds are limited.
>
Sounds like he is scrambling for his politcal life from the fallout from
this... got any more Republicans that you want to destroy their careers
with your insane Hooverite Teabaggism, Fauxy?
KNOCK YOURSELVES OUT!
Walter Harding
can't afford?
Phlip
> desperately?
>
> > Especially when the unions have a chance to suck
> > them dry.
OOooh UNION THUGS ! >I'm< ScaAaaAaAAred NOW!!
Oooh look out! Gay Nazi Socialist Muslim Kenyan Union Thugs are
coming!
>
> > Looks like Christie amputated the leg with the gangrene rather than
> > let it kill the state. Tough luck but funds are limited.
>
> Sounds like he is scrambling for his politcal life from the fallout from
> this... got any more Republicans that you want to destroy their careers
> with your insane Hooverite Teabaggism, Fauxy?
"Hooverite"? As in that capitalist triumph, the Hoover Dam? And the
Tennessee Valley Authority? And all the Army Corps of Engineers lakes
& dams?
Walter Harding
wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Oct 2010 02:32:59 -0700, Foxtrot wrote:
>
> >>Governor of New Jersey Halts Train Tunnel
>
> >>The largest public transit project in the nation, a commuter train
> >>tunnel under the Hudson River connecting New Jersey to Manhattan, was
> >>halted on Thursday by Gov. Chris Christie because, he said, the state
> >>could not afford its share of the project’s rising cost.
>
> >>Mr. Christie’s decision stunned other government officials and
> advocates
> >>of public transportation because work on the tunnel was under way and $3
> >>billion of federal financing had already been arranged — more money
> than
> >>had been committed to any other transit project in America.
>
> >>The governor, a Republican, said he decided to withdraw his support for
> >>the project on Thursday after hearing from state transportation
> >>officials that the project would cost at least $2.5 billion more than
> >>its original price of $8.7 billion. He said that New Jersey would have
> >>been responsible for the overrun and that he could not put the taxpayers
> >>of the state “on what would be a never-ending hook.”
>
> >>Just a month ago, Mr. Christie abruptly ordered a temporary halt to
> >>spending on the tunnel while state transportation officials reviewed its
> >>costs. The review found that the cost would probably exceed $11 billion
> >>and could be higher than $14 billion.
>
> > probably billions more. All for a makework program from federal pork
> > that NJ would have had to spend billions of its own money on. It was a
> > rat hole, not the kind of tunnel they claimed.
>
> It'll cost NJ a lot more than that in lost revenues, and of course,
> that's not even counting the money already spent and now wasted. It was
> one of the most fiscally foolish moves I've ever seen a politician make.
And yet, you thought the Stimulus bill was a good idea.
Ray Fischer
>> It'll cost NJ a lot more than that in lost revenues, and of course,
>> that's not even counting the money already spent and now wasted. It was
>> one of the most fiscally foolish moves I've ever seen a politician make.
>
>And yet, you thought the Stimulus bill was a good idea.
Yes, yes, we know you hate Americans and hate anything that helps
Americans.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09
He's also lying. At the time I absolutely hated the stimulus bill, but
saw it was the only way to avoid an utter crash of the economy. I
expected it was just delaying the inevitable, though, and was just
flushing billions away.
It's worked out far better than I expected.
Foxtrot
>fox...@null.com,Foxtrot says...
>>
>> Gary DeWaay <dewaay2...@sio.midco> wrote:
>> >The only people that will think this is a great idea are the Tea Bagger
>> >Hooverites (like Fauxy.)
>>
>> The way I read the article, New Jersey faces unlimited costs after
>> the fed put up the first $3B. Who'd want to get stuck in a project with
>> unlimited costs
>
>
>A state that needs to employ 6000 people and also NEEDS a tunnel, like
>desperately?
You admit that it's a *makework* program (probably union jobs). And
you ASSume that this exact tunnel in this exact place is the only
way to accomplish the goal.
Typical liberalism. Close-minded and acting like spoiled children.
>> Looks like Christie amputated the leg with the gangrene rather than
>> let it kill the state. Tough luck but funds are limited.
>
>Sounds like he is scrambling for his politcal life from the fallout from
>this... got any more Republicans that you want to destroy their careers
>with your insane Hooverite Teabaggism, Fauxy?
You think voters will punish politicians who decline federal pork? Did
you see the NY Times article last week about gubernatorial
candidates declining federal pork for a rail system in their states?
You still don't understand the current state of politics.
Ray Fischer
>Gary DeWaay <Ga...@netbinders.net> wrote:
>
>>fox...@null.com,Foxtrot says...
>>>
>>> Gary DeWaay <dewaay2...@sio.midco> wrote:
>>> >The only people that will think this is a great idea are the Tea Bagger
>>> >Hooverites (like Fauxy.)
>>>
>>> The way I read the article, New Jersey faces unlimited costs after
>>> the fed put up the first $3B. Who'd want to get stuck in a project with
>>> unlimited costs
>>
>>
>>A state that needs to employ 6000 people and also NEEDS a tunnel, like
>>desperately?
>
>You admit that it's a *makework* program (probably union jobs).
Rightards hate American workers.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Walter Harding
> On Sat, 9 Oct 2010 10:24:26 -0700 (PDT), Walter Harding
>
> <gopartyani...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >New Jersey can't afford it. Why should the state buy something it
> >can't afford?
>
> worth
1. The cost of the war was less than a third that number.
2. We most certainly could afford it - by 2006, the deficit was down
to a tenth what it is today.
Walter Harding
> Walter Harding <gopartyani...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09" <dea...@deadduz.com>
> >> It'll cost NJ a lot more than that in lost revenues, and of course,
> >> that's not even counting the money already spent and now wasted. It was
> >> one of the most fiscally foolish moves I've ever seen a politician make.
>
> >And yet, you thought the Stimulus bill was a good idea.
>
> Yes, yes, we know you hate Americans and hate anything that helps
> Americans.
Zepp, if you're pretending to be someone else, shouldn't you at least
change the wording of that idiotic talking point?
Walter Harding
Let's visit what you wrote at the time, shall we?
A GOP Nightmare
Everything they fear has come to pass. Lucky us!
1/24/09
.......
What I've seen of the economic stimulus package looks good. He wants
12
million homes to be running on clean energy sources in three years. He
proposes the retrofit of 2 million older homes toward that end to make
them more energy efficient.
He wants to use $100 billion as loan guarantees so banks will lend,
which
is probably the only thing that will work to get the cooperations of
those shortsighted cretins in the banking industry. Me, I would just
nationalize them and use them to invest in a national rebuilding. As
Robert Scheer noted, we already have plenty of debt, and encouraging
banks to create more is foolhardy. And encouraging profiteering on any
project that big is even more stupid, and invites corruption on a
cosmic
scale. Did we learn nothing over the past 25 years of free market
economics?
.....
So Obama is off to a good, strong start, and as I said, there's a new
sheriff in town.
> It's worked out far better than I expected.
You were only expecting him to destroy, what, two million jobs instead
of the current 3.5 mill?
Ray Fischer
>On Oct 9, 10:45 am, rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>> Walter Harding <gopartyani...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > "5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09" <dea...@deadduz.com>
>> >> It'll cost NJ a lot more than that in lost revenues, and of course,
>> >> that's not even counting the money already spent and now wasted. It was
>> >> one of the most fiscally foolish moves I've ever seen a politician make.
>>
>> >And yet, you thought the Stimulus bill was a good idea.
>>
>> Yes, yes, we know you hate Americans and hate anything that helps
>> Americans.
>
>Zepp,
Dank?
> if you're pretending to be someone else, shouldn't you at least
The rightard changes the subject.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
>On Oct 9, 12:00 pm, Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>> On Sat, 9 Oct 2010 10:24:26 -0700 (PDT), Walter Harding
>
>> >can't afford?
>>
>> Yer lying sack of shit bought a war we didn't need----$3 trillion
>> worth
>
>1. The cost of the war was less than a third that number.
According to a Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report published
in October 2007, the U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan could cost
taxpayers a total of $2.4 trillion dollars by 2017 when counting
the huge interest costs because combat is being financed with
borrowed money. The CBO estimated that of the $2.4 trillion
long-term price tag for the war, about $1.9 trillion of that would
be spent on Iraq, or $6,300 per U.S. citizen.[9][10]
Stiglitz, former chief economist of the World Bank and winner of
the Nobel Prize in Economics, has stated the total costs of the
Iraq War on the US economy will be three trillion dollars in a
moderate scenario, and possibly more in the most recent published
study, published in March 2008.[11] Stiglitz has stated: "The
figure we arrive at is more than $3 trillion. Our calculations are
based on conservative assumptions...Needless to say, this number
represents the cost only to the United States. It does not reflect
the enormous cost to the rest of the world, or to Iraq."[11]
The extended combat and equipment loss have placed a severe
financial strain on the U.S Army, causing the elimination of
non-essential expenses such as travel and civilian hiring.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_cost_of_the_Iraq_War
>2. We most certainly could afford it - by 2006, the deficit was down
>to a tenth what it is today.
You rightard assholes just cannot stop lying.
Bush's 2006 deficit was $536 billion.
The last Bush deficit was $1400 billion.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Foxtrot
>>>A state that needs to employ 6000 people and also NEEDS a tunnel, like
>>>desperately?
>>
>>You admit that it's a *makework* program (probably union jobs). And
>>you ASSume that this exact tunnel in this exact place is the only
>>way to accomplish the goal.
>>
>>Typical liberalism. Close-minded and acting like spoiled children.
>Yet you haven't a fucking piece of evidence that shows the billions
>funneled to those who own 90% of all wealth did a goddamn thing since
>the 80's to help anyone, have you?
Exactly who do you think hires people? Obviously you despise and
envy them but our economy would collapse without them.
>If reaganomics, and the GOP policies your whack-jobs did since 1994
>were so economincally sound---why did it cause a massive failure in
>our economic system----and Job LOSSES of 700,000 A MONTH until Bush
>was out of office?
I'm willing to admit that both parties screwed things up badly. Dems
are downright hostile to capitalism and Repubs are the opposite--
too cozy with big business.
Do you spread the blame across the political spectrum too?
Gary DeWaay
fox...@null.com,Foxtrot says...
>
> Gary DeWaay <Ga...@netbinders.net> wrote:
>
> >fox...@null.com,Foxtrot says...
> >>
> >> Gary DeWaay <dewaay2...@sio.midco> wrote:
> >> >The only people that will think this is a great idea are the Tea Bagger
> >> >Hooverites (like Fauxy.)
> >>
> >> The way I read the article, New Jersey faces unlimited costs after
> >> the fed put up the first $3B. Who'd want to get stuck in a project with
> >> unlimited costs
> >
> >
> >A state that needs to employ 6000 people and also NEEDS a tunnel, like
> >desperately?
>
> You admit that it's a *makework* program (probably union jobs).
You can't stand people making a decent wage, can you fauxy?
Would you approve of it if we herded in foreign labor and paid them all
$5 an hr to work the tunnel? Or better yet... why not just reinstitute
slavery so we can get the work done for free?
And
> you ASSume that this exact tunnel in this exact place is the only
> way to accomplish the goal.
I haven't seen anything to the contrary... perhaps you can provide
something (or admit you are throwing shit at the wall hoping something
sticks?
>
> Typical liberalism. Close-minded and acting like spoiled children.
LOL! Projection King.
>
> >> Looks like Christie amputated the leg with the gangrene rather than
> >> let it kill the state. Tough luck but funds are limited.
> >
> >Sounds like he is scrambling for his politcal life from the fallout from
> >this... got any more Republicans that you want to destroy their careers
> >with your insane Hooverite Teabaggism, Fauxy?
>
> You think voters will punish politicians who decline federal pork?
Uhhh... most politicians BRAG about the pork they bring into their
state.
Ya think Cristie would allow the 3 billion to go back to the Feds fer
instance?
I'd like to see him explain THAT to his constituents!
Did
> you see the NY Times article last week about gubernatorial
> candidates declining federal pork for a rail system in their states?
>
Name a light rail system that isn't popular.
> You still don't understand the current state of politics.
>
Well if YOU are an example of it, we are in deep deep shit.
How does refusing to build this tunnel HELP the economy, oh wise-one?
Walter Harding
> Walter Harding <gopartyani...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Oct 9, 10:45 am, rfisc...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
> >> Walter Harding <gopartyani...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > "5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09" <dea...@deadduz.com>
> >> >> It'll cost NJ a lot more than that in lost revenues, and of course,
> >> >> that's not even counting the money already spent and now wasted. It was
> >> >> one of the most fiscally foolish moves I've ever seen a politician make.
>
> >> >And yet, you thought the Stimulus bill was a good idea.
>
> >> Yes, yes, we know you hate Americans and hate anything that helps
> >> Americans.
>
> >Zepp,
>
> Dank?
>
>> change the wording of that idiotic talking point?
> The rightard changes the subject.
Again, shouldn't you try to sound a little bit different, Zepp?
Phlip
And who prosecuted it?
If Obama can work this well with saboteurs working against him in
every level of the gov't and the media, I'd like to see him operate on
a level playing field...
Walter Harding
"Level Playing Field"? He had a filibuster proof Senate and House.
He had the establishment media actively working working, and attacking
anyone who questioned him.
In three weeks he's going to lose the House - and maybe the Senate.
THEN you're going to see what a level playing field looks like.
Ray Fischer
>Yoor...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>
>>>>A state that needs to employ 6000 people and also NEEDS a tunnel, like
>>>>desperately?
>>>
>>>You admit that it's a *makework* program (probably union jobs). And
>>>you ASSume that this exact tunnel in this exact place is the only
>>>way to accomplish the goal.
>>>
>>>Typical liberalism. Close-minded and acting like spoiled children.
>
>>Yet you haven't a fucking piece of evidence that shows the billions
>>funneled to those who own 90% of all wealth did a goddamn thing since
>>the 80's to help anyone, have you?
>
>Exactly who do you think hires people?
Exactly who do you think spends money to support businesses?
Not your rich masters, rightard.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
>On Oct 9, 2:48 pm, Phlip <phlip2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Oct 9, 11:29 am, "5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09"
>>
>>
>>
>> <dea...@deadduz.com> wrote:
>> > On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 17:45:34 +0000, Ray Fischer wrote:
>> > > Walter Harding <gopartyani...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >> "5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09" <dea...@deadduz.com>
>>
>> > >>> It'll cost NJ a lot more than that in lost revenues, and of course,
>> > >>> that's not even counting the money already spent and now wasted. It
>> > >>> was one of the most fiscally foolish moves I've ever seen a politician
>> > >>> make.
>>
>> > >>And yet, you thought the Stimulus bill was a good idea.
>>
>> > > Yes, yes, we know you hate Americans and hate anything that helps
>> > > Americans.
>>
>> > He's also lying. At the time I absolutely hated the stimulus bill, but
>> > saw it was the only way to avoid an utter crash of the economy. I
>> > expected it was just delaying the inevitable, though, and was just
>> > flushing billions away.
>>
>> > It's worked out far better than I expected.
>>
>> And who prosecuted it?
>>
>> If Obama can work this well with saboteurs working against him in
>> every level of the gov't and the media, I'd like to see him operate on
>> a level playing field...
>
>"Level Playing Field"? He had a filibuster proof Senate and House.
Briefly.
>He had the establishment media actively working working, and attacking
>anyone who questioned him.
You're a liar.
Again.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Steve
I only take what's mine. Loser... and no, I have no spare change for
you.
Steve
Hmmmm, a total failure is better than Zepp expected?
Walter Harding
> Foxtrot <foxt...@null.com> wrote:
> >Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>
> >>>>A state that needs to employ 6000 people and also NEEDS a tunnel, like
> >>>>desperately?
>
> >>>You admit that it's a *makework* program (probably union jobs). And
> >>>you ASSume that this exact tunnel in this exact place is the only
> >>>way to accomplish the goal.
>
> >>>Typical liberalism. Close-minded and acting like spoiled children.
>
> >>Yet you haven't a fucking piece of evidence that shows the billions
> >>funneled to those who own 90% of all wealth did a goddamn thing since
> >>the 80's to help anyone, have you?
>
> >Exactly who do you think hires people?
>
> Exactly who do you think spends money to support businesses?
Everybody, using the money left over after the government taxes them.
Less taxes, more spending, more jobs.
Walter Harding
And that's not enough for you? Not to worry, come January, he'll have
to deal with a hostile House and Senate.
Walter Harding
> On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 13:29:31 -0500, "5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09"
>
>
>
> <dea...@deadduz.com> wrote:
> >On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 17:45:34 +0000, Ray Fischer wrote:
>
> >>> "5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09" <dea...@deadduz.com>
>
> >>>> It'll cost NJ a lot more than that in lost revenues, and of course,
> >>>> that's not even counting the money already spent and now wasted. It
> >>>> was one of the most fiscally foolish moves I've ever seen a politician
> >>>> make.
>
> >>>And yet, you thought the Stimulus bill was a good idea.
>
> >> Yes, yes, we know you hate Americans and hate anything that helps
> >> Americans.
>
> >He's also lying. At the time I absolutely hated the stimulus bill, but
> >saw it was the only way to avoid an utter crash of the economy. I
> >expected it was just delaying the inevitable, though, and was just
> >flushing billions away.
>
> >It's worked out far better than I expected.
>
> Hmmmm, a total failure is better than Zepp expected?
Sure.... he was hoping for a fascist overthrow of the United States.
Ray Fischer
Ray Fischer
> rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>Steve <steven...@yahooooo.com> wrote:
>>> "5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09"
>>>>
>>>>>> The project should have been stopped sooner.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, before 6 000 people got their hopes up for a job.
>>>>
>>>>And thousands of commuters saw a chance to save themselves lots of money
>>>>and aggravation, and an increase in property values brought about by
>>>>enhanced access to the commercial capital of the country.
>>>
>>>...and all those people expected the nanny government to spend money
>>>it didn't have...
>>
>>Is that why you collect money from the nanny government?
>
>I only take what's mine.
LOL! That's what every welfare queens says.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Walter Harding
The people without jobs because government regulations and greedy
unions made it unprofitable to hire Americans.
Steve
So that's what you say, huh, Fischer?
OTOH, I paid plenty for my SS check over the years and now I send it
all to my kids to cover their "contributions." ...and no, you can't
have any of it..
Ray Fischer
Deregulation, dumbass.
>and greedy
>unions made it unprofitable to hire Americans.
You just hate American workers and think that people should work for
slave wages.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
> rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>Steve <steven...@yahooooo.com> wrote:
>>> rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>>Steve <steven...@yahooooo.com> wrote:
>>>>> "5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09"
>>>>>>On Fri, 08 Oct 2010 14:25:01 -0700, Phlip wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The project should have been stopped sooner.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, before 6 000 people got their hopes up for a job.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And thousands of commuters saw a chance to save themselves lots of money
>>>>>>and aggravation, and an increase in property values brought about by
>>>>>>enhanced access to the commercial capital of the country.
>>>>>
>>>>>...and all those people expected the nanny government to spend money
>>>>>it didn't have...
>>>>
>>>>Is that why you collect money from the nanny government?
>>>
>>>I only take what's mine.
>>
>>LOL! That's what every welfare queens says.
>
>So that's what you say, huh, Fischer?
Grow up, parasite.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Walter Harding
So, how's making it too expensive to hire Americans policy working out
for this country? We have defacto 18% unemployment.
Steve
No, Fischer, I will not give you any money... you'll only piss it
away like you always do.
Walter Harding
> On Sat, 9 Oct 2010 16:25:43 -0700 (PDT), Walter Harding
>
> <gopartyani...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> If Obama can work this well with saboteurs working against him in
> >> every level of the gov't and the media, I'd like to see him operate on
> >> a level playing field...
>
> >"Level Playing Field"? He had a filibuster proof Senate and House.
> >He had the establishment media actively working working, and attacking
> >anyone who questioned him.
>
>
> Obama never had a 60 seat anything until an extended election was
> certified
Since he had one, why use the word "never"?
Oh, wait, you're a liar.
> By then SCHEDULED legislation was in place and thus began the 300+
> filibuster of house passed legislation when it reached the senate
>
> You may recall that one loony republican senator put a hold on many of
> the bills, causing disruption
You're horrified that Republicans are standing up to you guys, huh?
Get used to it.
There's a whole new breed of Republican coming to Washington.
We're not at all interested in getting along with you shitheads.
> >In three weeks he's going to lose the House - and maybe the Senate.
> >THEN you're going to see what a level playing field looks like.
>
> You bet
>
> That's why god created the veto.
Good. Let Obama veto one important, politically popular bill after
the other. Let him show the American people how much he hold their
wishes in contempt. He'll destroy the Democrat Party once and for
all.
Walter Harding
> On Sat, 9 Oct 2010 10:29:39 -0700 (PDT), Walter Harding> The stimulus bill saved the institutions that held millions of assets
> of retired people, you dumb bastard
Nooooooooooo - the Simulus bill pissed away 1.2 trillion dollars with
nothing to show at the end of the day.
The Stimulus Bill is what cost the Democrats the House.
Foxtrot
>On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 14:14:27 -0700, Foxtrot <fox...@null.com> wrote:
>
>>>Yet you haven't a fucking piece of evidence that shows the billions
>>>funneled to those who own 90% of all wealth did a goddamn thing since
>>>the 80's to help anyone, have you?
>>
>>Exactly who do you think hires people? Obviously you despise and
>>envy them but our economy would collapse without them.
>
>
>SMALL BUSINESSES who make under what the top 10% hold you dumb asshole
IBM, GE nor Ford have any employees, right Yoor Gassy? The local
donut shop and dry cleaner have small staffs but don't ignore the big
corporations.
The villains who manage those companies are paid to keep them
profitable. Without profits, they can't pay employees, can they?
>The tax rates screwed anyone making under $400,000 a year
>
>A fucking CEO taking home $300 million in compensaton don't hire no
>one.
What do you think the mega-wealthy do with their money? Fill the
swimming pool with $100 bills and roll around in it?
They invest it and bring economic growth which means more jobs.
Gary DeWaay
fox...@null.com,Foxtrot says...
So explain why the economy collapsed while the rich got richer during
the Bush Administration.
It seems like it would be an impossibility according to you.
Gary DeWaay
fox...@null.com,Foxtrot says...
>
> Hank <healthcr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> ><dea...@deadduz.com> wrote:
> >> Foxtrot wrote:
> >> > THAT took balls. It was already projected to be $2.5B over budget and
> >> > probably billions more. All for a makework program from federal pork
> >> > that NJ would have had to spend billions of its own money on. It was a
> >> > rat hole, not the kind of tunnel they claimed.
> >>
> >> It'll cost NJ a lot more than that in lost revenues, and of course,
> >> that's not even counting the money already spent and now wasted. It was
> >> one of the most fiscally foolish moves I've ever seen a politician make.
> >>
> >> And what authority did he have on that? Doesn't the lege there have a
> >> say?
> >>
> >That's the problem with people like this. They can't see the forest
> >for the trees. They look at everything and what it costs, and they
> >refuse to see the benefit. Imagine if hundreds of thousands of people
> >could give up their overpriced Manhattan loft for an affordable condo
> >in Jersey and still work at their high paying job in Manhattan,
> >without having to deal with the huge traffic jams and the $8 admission
> >fee you have to pay to go into Manhattan, and the $30 a day parking
> >fees? Instead, they could pay $15 to park in New Jersey, pay $5 to
> >take a train into Manhattan, and live and pay taxes in New Jersey. If
> >"only" 100,000 people do that, that's a few hundred million in tax
> >revenues every single year, not to mention all the jobs that would be
> >created in businesses to cater to these people, to build the housing
> >they'll need, etc.
> >
> >Since when is shortsighted and stupid considered "bold"?
>
> You're assuming that the tunnel is the only way to accomplish it.
>
> The last paragraph:
>
> Then, reinforcing his reputation for audacity, the governor called
> on the senators who had the secured the $3 billion in federal money
> for the tunnel to try again, for a less costly project.
>
> You're also assuming the train fare will be cheap, $5 a pop. With
> all those cost overruns, the money has to come from somewhere.
> Either higher fares or taxpayer subsidies.
>
Only a TeaBagger would consider a state spending 3 billion for a 9
billion dollar tunnel a "rip off."
Gary DeWaay
f38163...@z28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, fred1...@gmail.com,Not
Sure says...
> > Wasn't it just a few months ago Pubs were bitching that not enough of
> > the stimulus was for infrastructure?
>
> Continue being too scared to do anything but slob Zepp's knob, hooker :
> (
>
You righties sure seem fascinated with gay sex images.
Kinda creepy.
Gary DeWaay
@y32g2000prc.googlegroups.com>, gopart...@gmail.com,Walter Harding
says...
The economy was fine for 50 years with robust wages... whahappened?
Salty Stan
wrote:
> On 9 Oct, 03:19, "5732 Dead, 875 since 1/20/09" <dea...@deadduz.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 08 Oct 2010 14:25:01 -0700, Phlip wrote:
> > >> The project should have been stopped sooner.
>
> > > Yeah, before 6 000 people got their hopes up for a job.
>
> > And thousands of commuters saw a chance to save themselves lots of money
> > and aggravation, and an increase in property values brought about by
> > enhanced access to the commercial capital of the country.
>
> politicians ever attend them?
>
> Dr. Barry Worthington
huh,you wish...
Salty Stan
> In article <9c03b6tassjb0jvdqgun50q6vopp4t4...@4ax.com>,
> foxt...@null.com,Foxtrot says...
>
-
> > >A fucking CEO taking home $300 million in compensaton don't hire no
> > >one.
Why don't we implement the liberal/socialist plan? Take his money and
redistribute it to all Americans?.
Now let's see, with a population of about 330 million, that comes to -
about $0.90 per person.
>
> > What do you think the mega-wealthy do with their money? Fill the
> > swimming pool with $100 bills and roll around in it?
>
> > They invest it and bring economic growth which means more jobs.
>
> So explain why the economy collapsed while the rich got richer during
> the Bush Administration.
>
The economy grew every year under Bush...
until the Dems took over Congress.
Walter Harding
> On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 01:25:04 -0700 (PDT), Walter Harding
>
> <gopartyani...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Obama never had a 60 seat anything until an extended election was
> >> certified
>
> >Since he had one, why use the word "never"?
>
> couldn't be brought up---and the special elections shortly afterward
> took out any notioni of a cloture vote because of idiots who were
> republicans by anyother name
God, you guys are the biggest babies in American history. You're not
bitching that you didn't have a filibuster proof majority every single
second of the Obama Administration?
You're outraged that the opposition party didn't roll over and play
dead?
So tell me, how are you guys going to deal with losing the House next
month? When ACTUAL investigations of the Obama administration starts,
and nobody gives a shit about your cries of "racism" anymore?
Walter Harding
> In article <9c03b6tassjb0jvdqgun50q6vopp4t4...@4ax.com>,
> foxt...@null.com,Foxtrot says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > >On Sat, 09 Oct 2010 14:14:27 -0700, Foxtrot <foxt...@null.com> wrote:
>
> > >>>Yet you haven't a fucking piece of evidence that shows the billions
> > >>>funneled to those who own 90% of all wealth did a goddamn thing since
> > >>>the 80's to help anyone, have you?
>
> > >>Exactly who do you think hires people? Obviously you despise and
> > >>envy them but our economy would collapse without them.
>
> > >SMALL BUSINESSES who make under what the top 10% hold you dumb asshole
>
> > IBM, GE nor Ford have any employees, right Yoor Gassy? The local
> > donut shop and dry cleaner have small staffs but don't ignore the big
> > corporations.
>
> > The villains who manage those companies are paid to keep them
> > profitable. Without profits, they can't pay employees, can they?
>
> > >The tax rates screwed anyone making under $400,000 a year
>
> > >A fucking CEO taking home $300 million in compensaton don't hire no
> > >one.
>
> > What do you think the mega-wealthy do with their money? Fill the
> > swimming pool with $100 bills and roll around in it?
>
> > They invest it and bring economic growth which means more jobs.
>
> So explain why the economy collapsed while the rich got richer during
> the Bush Administration.
It didn't. When the Democrats took over both Houses, unemployment was
4.6%. After four years, it's now more than double that number - the
actual unemployment rate is 18% - 19%.
5747 Dead, 890 since 1/20/09
> On Oct 10, 11:32 am, Gary DeWaay <G...@netbinders.net> wrote:
>> In article <9c03b6tassjb0jvdqgun50q6vopp4t4...@4ax.com>,
>> foxt...@null.com,Foxtrot says...
>>
> -
>> > >A fucking CEO taking home $300 million in compensaton don't hire no
>> > >one.
>
> Why don't we implement the liberal/socialist plan? Take his money and
> redistribute it to all Americans?.
You really are a dishonest whack job, aren't you?
Phlip
> >> > >A fucking CEO taking home $300 million in compensaton don't hire no
> >> > >one.
>
> > Why don't we implement the liberal/socialist plan? Take his money and
> > redistribute it to all Americans?.
Hey, he EARNED that money!
Specifically, he accurately forecast exactly how much stock bounce
he'd get by firing exactly how many thousand workers. It didn't even
matter if he accidentally took out the productive ones. He earned that
money by then betting on the exact spread of that bounce.
Capitalism at work, folks! Productivity and employment soared!!
Walter Harding
> In article <834e3701-a0d1-423c-9993-c8a342457b98
The Obama administration declared war on capitalism.
Steve
<dea...@deadduz.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 14:18:50 -0700, Salty Stan wrote:
>
>> On Oct 10, 11:32 am, Gary DeWaay <G...@netbinders.net> wrote:
>>> In article <9c03b6tassjb0jvdqgun50q6vopp4t4...@4ax.com>,
>>> foxt...@null.com,Foxtrot says...
>>>
>> -
>>> > >A fucking CEO taking home $300 million in compensaton don't hire no
>>> > >one.
>>
>> Why don't we implement the liberal/socialist plan? Take his money and
>> redistribute it to all Americans?.
>
>You really are a dishonest whack job, aren't you?
>>
Every breath that Jamieson takes carries the hopes and dreams that the
government will take other people's money and give it to him.
Gary DeWaay
@u4g2000prn.googlegroups.com>, gopart...@gmail.com,Walter Harding
says...
Teabagger kook tell.
Capitalism was completely unbridled under your hero Bush... why did it
fail???
Gary DeWaay
@x23g2000vba.googlegroups.com>, wsjam...@gmail.com,Salty Stan says...
>
> On Oct 10, 11:32 am, Gary DeWaay <G...@netbinders.net> wrote:
> > In article <9c03b6tassjb0jvdqgun50q6vopp4t4...@4ax.com>,
> > foxt...@null.com,Foxtrot says...
> >
> -
> > > >A fucking CEO taking home $300 million in compensaton don't hire no
> > > >one.
>
> Why don't we implement the liberal/socialist plan? Take his money and
> redistribute it to all Americans?.
>
> Now let's see, with a population of about 330 million, that comes to -
> about $0.90 per person.
>
> >
> > > What do you think the mega-wealthy do with their money? Fill the
> > > swimming pool with $100 bills and roll around in it?
> >
> > > They invest it and bring economic growth which means more jobs.
> >
> > So explain why the economy collapsed while the rich got richer during
> > the Bush Administration.
> >
>
> The economy grew every year under Bush...
Ever heard of GDP to debt ratio?
Or maybe you think if a person keeps borrowing more than he earns he is
doing better?
Oh wait... righties don't care about debt unless a Dems are in charge.
Gary DeWaay
8a5394...@n41g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
gopart...@gmail.com,Walter Harding says...
> > So explain why the economy collapsed while the rich got richer during
> > the Bush Administration.
>
> It didn't. When the Democrats took over both Houses, unemployment was
> 4.6%. After four years, it's now more than double that number - the
> actual unemployment rate is 18% - 19%.
>
>
Name the Dem legislation that caused this (hint: Pubs blocked or vetoed
nearly everything Dems wanted to legislate... remember?)
Oh, except war spending, etc....
Phlip
> What do you think the mega-wealthy do with their money? Fill the
> swimming pool with $100 bills and roll around in it?
They stash it overseas and sit on it. Why risk it?
> They invest it and bring economic growth which means more jobs.
Under Bush, the rich extracted a further 600 billion per year from the
economy.
By an incredible coincidence, the productivity of US workers went
down, over the same period, by about 600 billion per year.
Yeah, dude. All that 600 billion got invested in US workers. In
between firing millions of them. Yeah, right.
Foxtrot
>fox...@null.com,Foxtrot says...
>> You're assuming that the tunnel is the only way to accomplish it.
>>
>> The last paragraph:
>>
>> Then, reinforcing his reputation for audacity, the governor called
>> on the senators who had the secured the $3 billion in federal money
>> for the tunnel to try again, for a less costly project.
>>
>> You're also assuming the train fare will be cheap, $5 a pop. With
>> all those cost overruns, the money has to come from somewhere.
>> Either higher fares or taxpayer subsidies.
>Only a TeaBagger would consider a state spending 3 billion for a 9
>billion dollar tunnel a "rip off."
I think you misread the piece. The fed paid the first $3B. NJ was
on the hook to pay much of the rest and they had no way of knowing
what the final tab would be. I think NY was in the same position.
You simply can't do business responsibly without knowing what
your obligations will be.
You made the same foolish point that Krugman made yesterday.
Who cares what the total bill will be! We need expensive makework
jobs on a project with open ended costs!
Congrats, De Wank. You're just as smart as a socialist dunce who
won a Nobel Prize in Economics.
Chris Christie for president! Chris Christie for president!
Ray Fischer
But it's not too expensive to pay corporate executives 500 times as
much as those workers, rightard?
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
>On Oct 9, 12:00 pm, Yoorg...@Jurgis.net wrote:
>> On Sat, 9 Oct 2010 10:29:39 -0700 (PDT), Walter Harding
>>
>> <gopartyani...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >And yet, you thought the Stimulus bill was a good idea.
>>
>> The stimulus bill saved the institutions that held millions of assets
>> of retired people, you dumb bastard
>
>Nooooooooooo - the Simulus bill pissed away 1.2 trillion dollars with
Stop lying, ashsole.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
>On 10 Oct 2010 02:19:47 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>
>>Steve <steven...@yahooooo.com> wrote:
>>> rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>>Steve <steven...@yahooooo.com> wrote:
>>>>> rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The project should have been stopped sooner.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yeah, before 6 000 people got their hopes up for a job.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>And thousands of commuters saw a chance to save themselves lots of money
>>>>>>>>and aggravation, and an increase in property values brought about by
>>>>>>>>enhanced access to the commercial capital of the country.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>it didn't have...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Is that why you collect money from the nanny government?
>>>>>
>>>>>I only take what's mine.
>>>>
>>>>LOL! That's what every welfare queens says.
>>>
>>>So that's what you say, huh, Fischer?
>>
>>Grow up, parasite.
>
>No, Fischer,
I don't expect you to. You'll continue to act like a 15-year-old
asshole.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Steve
Poor dumb Fischer.. So worried about how he'll live if the government
handouts end..
NoBody
Irony anyone? Hypocrisy much?