#Why Amtrak is dying when we need it the most
4095 Dead
than 6,400 cars.
Amtrak, by contrast, only has 632 usable cars in operation.
For the entire country.
Just ... wow.
Details from the New York Times article.
The problem is that rail has shriveled. The number of "passenger
miles" traveled on intercity rail has dropped by about two-thirds
since 1960, and the companies that build rail cars and locomotives
have also shrunk, making it hard to expand.
...
Today Amtrak has 632 usable rail cars, and dozens more are worn out or
damaged but could be reconditioned and put into service at a cost of
several hundred thousand dollars each.
And it needs to buy new rail cars soon. Its Amfleet cars, the ones
recognizable to riders as the old Metroliners, are more than 30 years
old. And the Acela trains, which have been operating about eight
years, have about a million miles on them.
- - - - -
Unbelievable.
Amtrak is running its entire nationwide train system on a mere 632
cars, a substantial number of which are 30 years old.
In the Northeast corridor, the transit zone that connects Washington
and Boston, Amtrak service is popularly and very widely used by both
commuters and intercity travelers alike -- and even these days by
intercity commuters. This is the route that is served by Amtrak's
Acela service, a high-speed train capable of reaching speeds of 150
miles an hour.
Elsewhere in the country, however, Amtrak service has become
synonymous with poor service, infrequent service and delays and
breakdowns.
It's easy to see why.
I knew that we were keeping our national rail program hungry.
But I did not realize that we were starving it to death.
Now that we're suddenly confronting energy prices that are high enough
for many Americans to keep their cars in the garage, we really need to
figure out how to modernize intercity rail. We're lucky that we
didn't destroy Amtrak altogether. (This was many a Republican
Congressman's dream in previous years.)
Intercity rail travel -- as anyone knows who has traveled in Europe or
the industrial parts of Asia -- can be alarmingly fast, convenient and
pleasant.
You just have to fund it.
Final note from the article linked above:
Amtrak’s fortunes also hinge on who wins the White House; Senator John
McCain of Arizona, the presumptive Republican nominee, was a staunch
opponent of subsidies to Amtrak when he was chairman of the Senate
Commerce Committee. Barack Obama, the probable Democratic nominee, was
a co-sponsor of the Senate version of the bill to provide an 80/20
financing match.
------
John McCain opposes Amtrak.
Barack Obama has been a co-sponsor of measures designed to improve and
extend intercity rail service.
--
"Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government
talking
about wiretap, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order.
Nothing has
changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists,
we're
talking about getting a court order before we do so"
-George W. Bush, April 20, 2004
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
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--
What do you call a Republican with a conscience?
An ex-Republican.
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8827 (From Yang, AthD (h.c)
"Prosperity and peace are in the balance," -- Putsch, not admitting that he's against both
Putsch: leading America to asymetric warfare since 2001
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Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
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a.a. #2211 -- Bryan Zepp Jamieson
darkst...@gmail.com
You know what's coming if you are paying attention: Soon, people are
going to be literally tied to their localities. If you live in LA,
you might get to San Francisco if you want to, but to Hell if you're
ever seeing anything east of Las Vegas again.
And that's if they don't succeed in tying the populace down
completely.
Mike
Steve
<zepp22...@finestplanet.com> wrote:
> The rolling stock of the New York City subway system consists of more
>than 6,400 cars.
>
>Amtrak, by contrast, only has 632 usable cars in operation.
>
>For the entire country.
>
>Just ... wow.
>
>Details from the New York Times article.
>
>The problem is that rail has shriveled. The number of "passenger
>miles" traveled on intercity rail has dropped by about two-thirds
>since 1960, and the companies that build rail cars and locomotives
>have also shrunk, making it hard to expand.
>
>...
>
>Today Amtrak has 632 usable rail cars, and dozens more are worn out or
>damaged but could be reconditioned and put into service at a cost of
>several hundred thousand dollars each.
>
>And it needs to buy new rail cars soon. Its Amfleet cars, the ones
>recognizable to riders as the old Metroliners, are more than 30 years
>old. And the Acela trains, which have been operating about eight
>years, have about a million miles on them.
>
...and yet it's all they need.. why should they have more.. nobody
rides the damned things anyway.
Kurt Lochner
>
> 4095 Dead remarked upon:
> >
> > The rolling stock of the New York City subway system consists of more
> > than 6,400 cars.
> >
> > Amtrak, by contrast, only has 632 usable cars in operation.
> >
> > For the entire country.
> >
> > Just ... wow.
> >
> > Details from the New York Times article.
> >
> > The problem is that rail has shriveled. The number of "passenger
> > miles" traveled on intercity rail has dropped by about two-thirds
> > since 1960, and the companies that build rail cars and locomotives
> > have also shrunk, making it hard to expand.
> >
> > ...
> >
> > Today Amtrak has 632 usable rail cars, and dozens more are worn out or
> > damaged but could be reconditioned and put into service at a cost of
> > several hundred thousand dollars each.
> >
> > And it needs to buy new rail cars soon. Its Amfleet cars, the ones
> > recognizable to riders as the old Metroliners, are more than 30 years
> > old. And the Acela trains, which have been operating about eight
> > years, have about a million miles on them.
>
>...and yet it's all they need.. why should they have more.. nobody
>rides the damned things anyway.
Prove it..
--Bloviations of the past come back to haunt now..
_____________________________________________________________________
"I never made any claims I couldn't back up...."
--Canyon <steven...@nospam.yahoo.com> Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:11:30 GMT
"I don't need to back anything up, you moron, cause unlike
yourself, my self image is not dependent on what others
think about me."
--Canyon <parkie...@nospam.yahoo.com> Wed, 26 Feb 2003 19:59:42 GMT
"I have no need to demonstrate what I know,[..]"
"MY self image is very secure...."
--Steven Canyon <Ga...@dog.soldiers> Tue, 13 Aug 2002 13:57:10 GMT
"[..] my ego isn't even slightly effected by what others
might think of me."
--Canyon <steven...@nospam.yahoo.com> Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:08:28 GMT
Bill Bonde { ''Direct And On Point'')
4095 Dead wrote:
>
>
> Unbelievable.
>
> Amtrak is running its entire nationwide train system on a mere 632
> cars, a substantial number of which are 30 years old.
>
Amtrak is crap, let it die.
--
"It happens sometimes, people just explode, natural causes."
-+Alex Cox, "Repo Man"
mlwo...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> "senile, craven" <semencan...@tampabay.rr.com> sniveled and whined:
>
> "I don't need to back anything up, you moron, cause unlike
> yourself, my self image is not dependent on what others
> think about me."
>
> "I have no need to demonstrate what I know,[..]"
> "MY self image is very secure...."
>
> "[..] my ego isn't even slightly effected by what others
> might think of me."
I recall very specifically that McCain wanted to cut all Amtrak
funding one year. Am not sure if it speaks for an inherent dislike of
publicly funded mass transport or if there was some specific issue at
the time, but in my experience, a threat or an action to cut off all
funding and let a form of vital ttransportation die is one of the
reasons I might not vote for him, no matter how much I dislike the
alternatives.
Everyone is focusing on oil/gas, but we should be focusing on
restoring mass transit between cities and within. There are systems
that might be able to be restored if the rail tracks are still there.
One of the problems is that years ago when Senator Spector and others
promoted the frieght Conrail systems, the passenger services went
downhill. Ownership of the tracks is with the freight company and the
passenger service is second priority. There is no money in promoting
mass transit for eleccted public officials. They get their campaign
monies and other goodies from promoting the highway systems used by
truckers and built by cement lobby, and promoted by tourism, trade
industries and your friendly AAA and gas companies. The ppublic is
always at the bottom of the barrel, and apparently McCain knows where
to get his campaign money from. So, years ago, when I and others
fought for mass transit over the hi9ghway systems, we were villified,
phones tapped, investigators infilitrating citizen organizations, new
and unusual tax audits. So, as long as we allow the officials to play
this game, we will continue in the same path. My bet is that Nader
will effect more change in this area than the others.
Keep on the need for more public and mass transit.
best to all,
Villa Rosa
4095 Dead
>On Jun 21, 2:50 pm, Kurt Lochner <kurt_loch...@DONOTSPAMhotmail.com>
>wrote:
>> "senile, craven" <semencan...@tampabay.rr.com> sniveled and whined:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > 4095 Dead remarked upon:
>>
>> > > The rolling stock of the New York City subway system consists of more
>> > > than 6,400 cars.
>>
>> > > Amtrak, by contrast, only has 632 usable cars in operation.
>>
>> > > For the entire country.
>>
>> > > Just ... wow.
>>
>> > > Details from the New York Times article.
>>
>> > > The problem is that rail has shriveled. The number of "passenger
>> > > miles" traveled on intercity rail has dropped by about two-thirds
>> > > since 1960, and the companies that build rail cars and locomotives
>> > > have also shrunk, making it hard to expand.
>>
>> > > ...
>>
>> > > Today Amtrak has 632 usable rail cars, and dozens more are worn out or
>> > > damaged but could be reconditioned and put into service at a cost of
>> > > several hundred thousand dollars each.
>>
>> > > And it needs to buy new rail cars soon. Its Amfleet cars, the ones
>> > > recognizable to riders as the old Metroliners, are more than 30 years
>> > > old. And the Acela trains, which have been operating about eight
>> > > years, have about a million miles on them.
>I recall very specifically that McCain wanted to cut all Amtrak
The airline industry is crashing, and if the fake energy crisis keeps
up, the US will be reduced to two or three providers, each charging
ultra-premium rates.
Imagine high speed tracks, one on a side, running parallel to the
interstates in the open areas between cities. With most of the
easement issues already addressed, it would be far cheaper than trying
to prop up the airlines, and probably pay for itself in money saved
from less traffic congestion.
There's absolutely no way a plane can compete with the railroad for
comfort. The big problem with Amtrak is that it has no control over
the rails it travels over, and has no funding to improve where it can.
--
What do you call a Republican with a conscience?
An ex-Republican.
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8827 (From Yang, AthD (h.c)
"Prosperity and peace are in the balance," -- Putsch, not admitting that he's against both
Putsch: leading America to asymetric warfare since 2001
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
Kurt Lochner
>
> 4095 Dead wrote:
> >
> > The rolling stock of the New York City subway system consists of more
> > than 6,400 cars.
> >
> > Amtrak, by contrast, only has 632 usable cars in operation.
> >
> > For the entire country.
> >
> > Just ... wow.
> >
> > Details from the New York Times article.
> >
> > The problem is that rail has shriveled. The number of "passenger
> > miles" traveled on intercity rail has dropped by about two-thirds
> > since 1960, and the companies that build rail cars and locomotives
> > have also shrunk, making it hard to expand.
> >
> > ...
> >
> > Today Amtrak has 632 usable rail cars, and dozens more are worn out or
> > damaged but could be reconditioned and put into service at a cost of
> > several hundred thousand dollars each.
> >
> > And it needs to buy new rail cars soon. Its Amfleet cars, the ones
> > recognizable to riders as the old Metroliners, are more than 30 years
> > old. And the Acela trains, which have been operating about eight
> > years, have about a million miles on them.
> >
> > - - - - -
> >
> >
> > Amtrak is running its entire nationwide train system on a mere 632
> > cars, a substantial number of which are 30 years old.
> >
> > and Boston, Amtrak service is popularly and very widely used by both
> > commuters and intercity travelers alike -- and even these days by
> > intercity commuters. This is the route that is served by Amtrak's
> > Acela service, a high-speed train capable of reaching speeds of 150
> > miles an hour.
>
Prove it. Let's see some numbers, and remember that your
imagination doesn't count in this instance..
--Or, is that why you're known as a right-wing quisling?
astr...@yahoo.com
Bill Bonde { ''Direct And On Point'') wrote:
> 4095 Dead wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > Unbelievable.
> >
> > Amtrak is running its entire nationwide train system on a mere 632
> > cars, a substantial number of which are 30 years old.
> >
> Amtrak is crap, let it die.
>
whhuuuhhhyy cause your fagot Bush people don't give a fuck about
anything in and about America? So you support that,
minerva
In all the years that the Democrats have controlled the House and
Senate, there has seldom been a break through in funding public transit
systems, even though you would think they would be the ones to do it,
rather than the republicans. The Congress is very stingy with money to
build rail, restore trolley systems, and get some monies into
maintaining and build up those systems already in operation. They
would rather spend their time posing as legislators, arguing with the
opposition, hold press conferences about nothing, pork barrel project
funding that wastes money rather than something that means real progress
for society as a whole. Or fund systems like one out in Northern
Virginia that will benefit the land developers, the ones with the land
or money to get it, the ones who already have and want more, the greedy.
This has been going on for generations.
Obama talks about change, and in this political atmosphere of a
presidential and congressional election the same year, the Congress
echoes that back, but they do not change their priorities at all, they
are not changed themselves, so what change will they really bring about?
They have been arguing about Iraq while the rest of the country goes to
pot. They have not changed and they will not change because it is all a
political game to them. Say and do what gets one elected or re-elected,
then they drop the ball and go back to business as usual.
Where will it end? In a struggle for money and power as the space
between the very wealthy and the middle class widens. Only the wealthy
will make money, spend it and be able to buy gas while everyone else has
little or nothing and the congress and state legislators will continue
to pass legislation that benefits the haves, and throw money at the very
poor, and forget about the rest of us until the next election, when the
rhetoric starts again.
They talk about alternative energy, but they are not doing anything to
move people to and from their work and other places. Horse and buggy
and surry with a fringe on top are better ideas than the ones that come
out of the candidates. Windmills will not get you to your office and
help you get groceries, neiither will coal and nuclear power plants,
that McCain talks about. Horse and buggy, I guess we can go with that.
No gas needed. Can horses use walk on cement highways? Can we park
them in a commuter lot? Perhaps we ought to be planning for that
eventuality.
Dr. Barry Worthington
> For essays (please contribute!)
> http:yahoogroups/subscribe/zepps_essays
>
> --
>
> What do you call a Republican with a conscience?
>
> An ex-Republican.
>
>
> "Prosperity and peace are in the balance," -- Putsch, not admitting that he's against both
>
> Putsch: leading America to asymetric warfare since 2001
>
> Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
> Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
> For news feed (free, 10-20 articles a day)
> For essays (donations accepted, 2 articles/week)
> a.a. #2211 -- Bryan Zepp Jamieson
I'm travelling to Vienna soon, for a few days holiday. One Saturday
Morning, I will turn up at Manchester Piccadilly Station, and catch
the train to London Euston. I like travelling by train. You can sit
back, read, work, go for a stroll to the buffet, eat, etc. etc. And,
of course, watch the world go by from your window. At London, I'll
stroll for about ten minutes down the road to St. Pancras Station, and
check in at the international station. From here, I'll travel by
Eurostar, through the Channel Tunnel, dashing across the plain of
Northern France via Lille to Brussels Gare Du Midi. A short interval
to change trains, then it's off on a Thalys HST to Cologne. No time to
see the Cathedral or the city, I'm afraid....I have to secure my
couchete on the 'Donau Kurier'. A nice moonlit trip down the Rhine,
and I arrive in Vienna in good time for breakfast on Sunday morning.
Of course, I could get a cheap flight, but I don't think that they
will be around much longer. In any case, the return train journey is
competitively priced, and if I was travelling on business, I would
arrive early for my appointments and save on hotel bills! A HST
would be ideal for a large country like the U.S.
Dr. Barry Worthington
4095 Dead
Sounds like a splendid trip. Enjoy yourself. The last time I did
such a trip we took the ferry across because the chunnel didn't exist
and the hovercraft commanded a premium price. We were lucky: the
channel behaved itself both coming and going.
I hear that British rail has declned since Maggie privatized it, but I
bet it's still better than anything here in the States.
Until this year, though, we had the Coast Starlight, Amtrak's prestige
route from Seattle to San Diego down the west coast. It was slow and
the schedule was at best a polite fiction, but it was incredibly
comfortable. Trains are still the only way of travel where if you
start feeling the need for a bit of exercise, you can get up and take
a stroll. The food in the diner car was excellent, the chairs big and
luxurious, the scenery beyond compare.
I saw in yesterday's Guardian that Network Rail is proposing five high
speed routes around GB by 2025. America has nothing like that in the
works. There is a proposal for high speed rail in California, but it's
bogged down by demands by politicians that the train stop in every
area they happen to represent. By the time they're done, we'll have a
$30 billion train that averages 30mph with 250 stops between Yreka and
San Diego. There's also a proposal for a maglev between LA and Vegas.
--
What do you call a Republican with a conscience?
An ex-Republican.
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8827 (From Yang, AthD (h.c)
"Prosperity and peace are in the balance," -- Putsch, not admitting that he's against both
Putsch: leading America to asymetric warfare since 2001
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
For the finest in liberal/leftist commentary,
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com
For news feed (free, 10-20 articles a day)
For essays (donations accepted, 2 articles/week)
Zepps_essay...@yahoogroups.com
Steve
<zepp22...@finestplanet.com> wrote:
> Trains are still the only way of travel where if you
>start feeling the need for a bit of exercise, you can get up and take
>a stroll.
....and they are the only way fat assed obese slobs like Zepp *CAN*
travel without buying two tickets...
SlackJaw
> > And it needs to buy new rail cars soon. Its Amfleet cars, the ones
> > recognizable to riders as the old Metroliners, are more than 30
> > years old. And the Acela trains, which have been operating about
> > eight years, have about a million miles on them.
> >
>
> ...and yet it's all they need.. why should they have more.. nobody
> rides the damned things anyway.
I would, if they were cheap, convenient, and clean like Europe's rail
system.
--
-
A Republican works all day so you don't have to.
Steve
wrote:
>Steve wrote:
>
>> > And it needs to buy new rail cars soon. Its Amfleet cars, the ones
>> > recognizable to riders as the old Metroliners, are more than 30
>> > years old. And the Acela trains, which have been operating about
>> > eight years, have about a million miles on them.
>> >
>>
>> ...and yet it's all they need.. why should they have more.. nobody
>> rides the damned things anyway.
>
>I would, if they were cheap, convenient, and clean like Europe's rail
>system.
But they're not.. and they're not very fast either...
SlackJaw
And more expensive than a plane ticket. But it is run by the
government, what do you expect?
SlackJaw
"I have the degree in physics" - Kurt Lochner
Just wonder, Kurt, would you like to *prove* that?
SlackJaw
Kurt Lochner
>
> Kurt Lochner restored the original text/context:
What would you consider unambiguous "proof" of that, slapped_jaw?
Got an extra $5,000.00 you'd like to send me? *>chuckling<*
Vapid Muffette didn't, but shot his mouth off to that amount..
--And where'd you get the "kg x ft^2/sec^2" again?
Kurt Lochner
>
> astr...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> >"shill bonehead {''indirect and pointless'') writhed in denials:
> > >
> > > 4095 Dead wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Unbelievable.
> > > >
> > > > Amtrak is running its entire nationwide train system on a mere
> > > > 632 cars, a substantial number of which are 30 years old.
> > >
> > >Amtrak is crap, let it die.
> >
> > whhuuuhhhyy cause your fagot Bush people don't give a fuck
> > about anything in and about America? So you support that,
>
>Posts like that is why I could never be a Democrat.
Posting remarks like that, I believe it..
--So where'd you get the "kg x ft^2/sec^2" again?
SlackJaw
> > > Prove it. Let's see some numbers, and remember that your
> > > imagination doesn't count in this instance..
> > >
> > > --Or, is that why you're known as a right-wing quisling?
> >
> > Just wonder, Kurt, would you like to prove that?
>
> What would you consider unambiguous "proof" of that, slapped_jaw?
I had thought not.
>
> Got an extra $5,000.00 you'd like to send me? *>chuckling<*
>
> Vapid Muffette didn't, but shot his mouth off to that amount..
>
> --And where'd you get the "kg x ft^2/sec^2" again?
--
SlackJaw
Why is it that Europe and Asia can manage to create a decent public
transportation system, but not the U.S.?
Matt
> On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 10:08:32 -0700, 4095 Dead
>
>
>
>
>
> <zepp22114...@finestplanet.com> wrote:
> > The rolling stock of the New York City subway system consists of more
> >than 6,400 cars.
>
> >Amtrak, by contrast, only has 632 usable cars in operation.
>
> >For the entire country.
>
> >Just ... wow.
>
> >Details from the New York Times article.
>
> >The problem is that rail has shriveled. The number of "passenger
> >miles" traveled on intercity rail has dropped by about two-thirds
> >since 1960, and the companies that build rail cars and locomotives
> >have also shrunk, making it hard to expand.
>
> >...
>
> >Today Amtrak has 632 usable rail cars, and dozens more are worn out or
> >damaged but could be reconditioned and put into service at a cost of
> >several hundred thousand dollars each.
>
> >And it needs to buy new rail cars soon. Its Amfleet cars, the ones
> >recognizable to riders as the old Metroliners, are more than 30 years
> >old. And the Acela trains, which have been operating about eight
> >years, have about a million miles on them.
>
> ...and yet it's all they need.. why should they have more.. nobody
> rides the damned things anyway.
Oh, of course, Steve-o. That must be one of your "facts", right?
Hm.
October 23, 2007
Annual Amtrak Ridership Sets All-Time Record; Fifth Straight Year of
Increases
Ridership Tops 25.8 Million, $1.5 Billion in Passenger Revenue
WASHINGTON — Amtrak ridership in Fiscal Year 2007 increased to
25,847,531, marking the fifth straight year of gains and setting a
record for the most passengers using Amtrak trains since the National
Railroad Passenger Corporation started operations in 1971.
This total, for the period October 1, 2006-September 30, 2007, topped
the 24,306,965 for the previous 12 months and is greater than the
passenger count of 25.03 million reached in 2004, before Amtrak
transitioned some services to a commuter rail operator.
June 21st, 2008
WASHINGTON — Record prices for gasoline and jet fuel should be good
news for Amtrak, as travelers look for alternatives to cut the cost of
driving and flying.
Daniel Rosenbaum for The New York Times
Passengers hurrying to board an Amtrak train at Union Station in
Washington.
And they are good news, up to a point.
Amtrak set records in May, both for the number of passengers it
carried and for ticket revenues — all the more remarkable because May
is not usually a strong travel month.
But the railroad, and its suppliers, have shrunk so much, largely
because of financial constraints, that they would have difficulty
growing quickly to meet the demand.
Many of the long-distance trains are already sold out for some days
this summer. Want to take Amtrak’s daily Crescent train from New York
to New Orleans? It is sold out on July 5, 6, 7 and 8. Seattle to
Vancouver, British Columbia, on July 5? The train is sold out, but
Amtrak will sell you a bus ticket.
*************************************
Yep, nobody is riding the thing.
Matt
Kurt Lochner
>
> Kurt Lochner restored the original text/context deleted by:
> > > > imagination doesn't count in this instance..
> > > >
> > > > --Or, is that why you're known as a right-wing quisling?
> > >
> >
> > What would you consider unambiguous "proof" of that, slapped_jaw?
>
>I had thought not.
Evasion noted, and laughed at again..
Bill Bonde { ''Direct And On Point'')
SlackJaw wrote:
>
> Why is it that Europe and Asia can manage to create a decent public
> transportation system, but not the U.S.?
>
America is a rural nation. Americans also wish to continue to have
the freedom of their own car.
Steve
wrote:
He'll send you a picture of a photoshopped "degree."
Steve
wrote:
>Steve wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:21:12 -0500, "SlackJaw" <Slac...@Hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Steve wrote:
>> >
>> >> > And it needs to buy new rail cars soon. Its Amfleet cars, the
>> ones >> > recognizable to riders as the old Metroliners, are more
>> than 30 >> > years old. And the Acela trains, which have been
>> operating about >> > eight years, have about a million miles on them.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ...and yet it's all they need.. why should they have more.. nobody
>> >> rides the damned things anyway.
>> >
>> > I would, if they were cheap, convenient, and clean like Europe's
>> > rail system.
>>
>> But they're not.. and they're not very fast either...
>
>And more expensive than a plane ticket. But it is run by the
>government, what do you expect?
I expect it to be wasteful and useless....
mariposas rand mair fheal
Steve <steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote:
if the free market could provide the service you wouldnt need the government to
speaking of free market how do you feel about five dollar a gallon gasoline?
going to demand congress intervene?
arf meow arf - raggedy ann and andy for president and vice
limp and spineless lint for brains is better yet and nice
then rueing pair of shrub and dick the republican lice
call me desdenova seven seven seven seven seven seven
Steve
<mair_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>In article <bjiu649u2t9326050...@4ax.com>,
> Steve <steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 18:39:11 -0500, "SlackJaw" <Slac...@Hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Steve wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:21:12 -0500, "SlackJaw" <Slac...@Hotmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Steve wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> > And it needs to buy new rail cars soon. Its Amfleet cars, the
>> >> ones >> > recognizable to riders as the old Metroliners, are more
>> >> than 30 >> > years old. And the Acela trains, which have been
>> >> operating about >> > eight years, have about a million miles on them.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ...and yet it's all they need.. why should they have more.. nobody
>> >> >> rides the damned things anyway.
>> >> >
>> >> > I would, if they were cheap, convenient, and clean like Europe's
>> >> > rail system.
>> >>
>> >> But they're not.. and they're not very fast either...
>> >
>> >And more expensive than a plane ticket. But it is run by the
>> >government, what do you expect?
>>
>>
>> I expect it to be wasteful and useless....
>
>if the free market could provide the service you wouldnt need the government to
A free market would be only to happy to provide a service that paid
for itself....
>speaking of free market how do you feel about five dollar a gallon gasoline?
>going to demand congress intervene?
I've already sent letters in an attempt to get more oil production and
more nuclear power plants started here in the USA.
mariposas rand mair fheal
Steve <steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote:
necessary services dont always pay for themselves
like libraries police streets fire city parks
> >speaking of free market how do you feel about five dollar a gallon gasoline?
> >going to demand congress intervene?
>
> I've already sent letters in an attempt to get more oil production and
> more nuclear power plants started here in the USA.
there would be no nuclear power plants
if not for congress intervening with price-anderson
as for public lands
its up to the owners to decide how to use the land
that is the free market
your problem is the free market is working as it should be
and you dont like it
Steve
<mair_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
YOU claiming something is necessary doesn't make it so.... Whatever
parts of your list that are truly necessary would, indeed, pay for
themselves....
>> >speaking of free market how do you feel about five dollar a gallon gasoline?
>> >going to demand congress intervene?
>>
>> I've already sent letters in an attempt to get more oil production and
>> more nuclear power plants started here in the USA.
>
>there would be no nuclear power plants
>if not for congress intervening with price-anderson
That's simply not true....
>as for public lands
>its up to the owners to decide how to use the land
>that is the free market
>
>
>your problem is the free market is working as it should be
>and you dont like it
Actually, the free market, when allowed to work, makes me quite happy.
mariposas rand mair fheal
Steve <steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote:
be specific
list anything you think is necessary service and show to make it pay for itself
and what you dont list one can assume you claim is not necessary
> >> >speaking of free market how do you feel about five dollar a gallon
> >> >gasoline?
> >> >going to demand congress intervene?
> >>
> >> I've already sent letters in an attempt to get more oil production and
> >> more nuclear power plants started here in the USA.
> >
> >there would be no nuclear power plants
> >if not for congress intervening with price-anderson
>
> That's simply not true....
how do nuclear power plants get insurance on the free market without it?
do you think anyone would run a nuclear plant without insurance?
> >as for public lands
> >its up to the owners to decide how to use the land
> >that is the free market
> >
> >
> >your problem is the free market is working as it should be
> >and you dont like it
>
> Actually, the free market, when allowed to work, makes me quite happy.
yes of course
and all of the failures to date
have been because the market hasnt been free enough
odd that
when large parts of society are facing death and ruin
they just dont seem interested in running some grand experiment
that what isnt working yet when only work
if they are just willing to risk even more death and greater ruin
i guess people just dont like faith based economics
Steve
<mair_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
<LOL> Any and all of what you mentioned.. for instance, if people
believe that police and firemen are necessary, they will pay for
them.. of course, there are those that might not be able to pay for
them... too bad.....
>> >> >speaking of free market how do you feel about five dollar a gallon
>> >> >gasoline?
>> >> >going to demand congress intervene?
>> >>
>> >> I've already sent letters in an attempt to get more oil production and
>> >> more nuclear power plants started here in the USA.
>> >
>> >there would be no nuclear power plants
>> >if not for congress intervening with price-anderson
>>
>> That's simply not true....
>
>how do nuclear power plants get insurance on the free market without it?
>do you think anyone would run a nuclear plant without insurance?
Since nuclear power plants have proven to be no more dangerous than
other power plants, it's not really necessary any more
>> >as for public lands
>> >its up to the owners to decide how to use the land
>> >that is the free market
>> >
>> >
>> >your problem is the free market is working as it should be
>> >and you dont like it
>>
>> Actually, the free market, when allowed to work, makes me quite happy.
>
>yes of course
>and all of the failures to date
>have been because the market hasnt been free enough
Any "failures" to date is because the market was/is free..
mariposas rand mair fheal
Steve <steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote:
> >be specific
> >list anything you think is necessary service and show to make it pay for
> >itself
> >and what you dont list one can assume you claim is not necessary
>
> <LOL> Any and all of what you mentioned.. for instance, if people
> believe that police and firemen are necessary, they will pay for
> them.. of course, there are those that might not be able to pay for
> them... too bad.....
okay
so your idea of successful society denies necessities to poor people
i wonder how long that society would survive
> Since nuclear power plants have proven to be no more dangerous than
> other power plants, it's not really necessary any more
how many companies benefiting from the law want price-anderson repealed?
> >> Actually, the free market, when allowed to work, makes me quite happy.
> >
> >yes of course
> >and all of the failures to date
> >have been because the market hasnt been free enough
>
> Any "failures" to date is because the market was/is free..
yes you have above indicated
you dont mind people dying to save you a few dollars
thats generous of you
Steve
<mair_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>In article <tlqu6415kn4h60m50...@4ax.com>,
> Steve <steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote:
>
>> >be specific
>> >list anything you think is necessary service and show to make it pay for
>> >itself
>> >and what you dont list one can assume you claim is not necessary
>>
>> <LOL> Any and all of what you mentioned.. for instance, if people
>> believe that police and firemen are necessary, they will pay for
>> them.. of course, there are those that might not be able to pay for
>> them... too bad.....
>
>okay
>so your idea of successful society denies necessities to poor people
I'm not denying anything... I'm just to wiling to pay for it
>i wonder how long that society would survive
>
>> Since nuclear power plants have proven to be no more dangerous than
>> other power plants, it's not really necessary any more
>
>how many companies benefiting from the law want price-anderson repealed?
It's your claim...
>> >> Actually, the free market, when allowed to work, makes me quite happy.
>> >
>> >yes of course
>> >and all of the failures to date
>> >have been because the market hasnt been free enough
>>
>> Any "failures" to date is because the market was/is free..
>
>yes you have above indicated
>you dont mind people dying to save you a few dollars
>thats generous of you
<LOL> It's not about "saving"me money, it's about me not giving it
away to other people...
David Johnston
<steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 06:39:39 -0700, mariposas rand mair fheal
><mair_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <tlqu6415kn4h60m50...@4ax.com>,
>> Steve <steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> >be specific
>>> >list anything you think is necessary service and show to make it pay for
>>> >itself
>>> >and what you dont list one can assume you claim is not necessary
>>>
>>> <LOL> Any and all of what you mentioned.. for instance, if people
>>> believe that police and firemen are necessary, they will pay for
>>> them.. of course, there are those that might not be able to pay for
>>> them... too bad.....
>>
>>okay
>>so your idea of successful society denies necessities to poor people
>
>I'm not denying anything... I'm just to wiling to pay for it
That's an intriguing idea. It means for example that you can expect
fires that spread across most of the city destroying most of it
because the fire fighters only respond to them after the situation is
utterly uncontrollable.
Steve
wrote:
That's a ridiculous claim.. a private fire brigade would spring into
action any time their customers requested them...
Jeffrey Turner
You know that's how fire companies started, right? You know that the
firemen would set fires to encourage customers, right?
--Jeff
--
The struggle with evil by means of violence
is the same as an attempt to stop a cloud,
in order that there may be no rain. -Leo Tolstoy
mariposas rand mair fheal
Steve <steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote:
what private fire brigade?
Steve
<snicker>
>--Jeff
Steve
<mair_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
You poor thing... are you having trouble keeping up?
mariposas rand mair fheal
Bill Bonde { ''Soylent Diesel is People'')
Consider a city like pre-WWII Tokyo. Evidently the American
firebombing wasn't the first time the city burned killing hundreds
of thousands of Japanese. Apparently it would happen regularly,
maybe every 50 years. So a city built of wood and paper is likely
to require all its fires be attacked immediately, not just the
fires in the houses of the people who hired the private fire
brigade.
In Ancient Rome, a man decided to start perhaps the first private
fire fighting company. He would charge folks in an insurance like
way to be there to put out any fires. If they chose not to pay, and
a fire started, he would show up anyway and demand huge sums to put
out the flames. If the homeowner didn't pay, his home would burn to
the ground. Not willing to miss an opportunity, this fellow would
then buy the burt out hulk at a depressed value.
David Moffitt
"SlackJaw" <Slac...@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:W5SdnUA0ibx2KfPV...@comcast.com...
| Kurt Lochner wrote:
|
| > "shrill blonde (''Insinuations are not a point'')" writhed in denial:
| > >
| > > 4095 Dead wrote:
| > > >
| > > > The rolling stock of the New York City subway system consists of
| > > > more than 6,400 cars.
| > > >
| > > > Amtrak, by contrast, only has 632 usable cars in operation.
| > > >
| > > > For the entire country.
| > > >
| > > > Just ... wow.
| > > >
| > > > Details from the New York Times article.
| > > >
| > > > The problem is that rail has shriveled. The number of "passenger
| > > > miles" traveled on intercity rail has dropped by about two-thirds
| > > > since 1960, and the companies that build rail cars and locomotives
| > > > have also shrunk, making it hard to expand.
| > > >
| > > > ...
| > > >
| > > > Today Amtrak has 632 usable rail cars, and dozens more are worn
| > > > out or damaged but could be reconditioned and put into service at
| > > > a cost of several hundred thousand dollars each.
| > > >
| > > > recognizable to riders as the old Metroliners, are more than 30
| > > > years old. And the Acela trains, which have been operating about
| > > > eight years, have about a million miles on them.
| > > >
| > > >
| > > > Unbelievable.
| > > >
| > > > Amtrak is running its entire nationwide train system on a mere 632
| > > > cars, a substantial number of which are 30 years old.
| > > >
| > > > In the Northeast corridor, the transit zone that connects
| > > > Washington and Boston, Amtrak service is popularly and very
| > > > widely used by both commuters and intercity travelers alike --
| > > > and even these days by intercity commuters. This is the route
| > > > that is served by Amtrak's Acela service, a high-speed train
| > > > capable of reaching speeds of 150 miles an hour.
| > >
| > > Amtrak is crap, [..]
| >
| > Prove it. Let's see some numbers, and remember that your
| > imagination doesn't count in this instance..
| >
| > --Or, is that why you're known as a right-wing quisling?
|
| "I have the degree in physics" - Kurt Lochner
|
| Just wonder, Kurt, would you like to *prove* that?
%%%% I bet him $5,000 several years ago that Kurt Lochner did not have a
physics degree. He posted some one else's diploma and a WalMart guitar. (I
haven't figured out what the picture of a cheap guitar was for) He has not
paid off the bet yet. If you make a bet with him don't expect him to pay
off.
David Moffitt
"Steve" <steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote in message
news:eliu649angva75jj7...@4ax.com...
%%%% A photoshopped "degree" that doesn't even have his name on it. ":o)
"My sense of purpose is gone! I have no idea who I AM!"
"Oh, my God... You've.. You've turned him into a DEMOCRAT!" -- Doonesbury
David Moffitt
"mariposas rand mair fheal" <mair_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mair_fheal-B0BC8...@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
%%%% Amtrack is not a necessary service.
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the
name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program
until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it
happened." -- Norman Thomas, American socialist
David Moffitt
"mariposas rand mair fheal" <mair_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:mair_fheal-B19F9...@sn-ip.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net...
%%%% I'm sure you can put that ribbon right beside your Special Olympic one.
You are still a moron.
"Didn't you think there was something wrong when you were getting checks for
doing nothing?"
"I thought it was because the Democrats were back in power." ---- The
Simpsons, April, 1993
Mitchell Holman
news:KKednayJpNxAtu3V...@earthlink.com:
So why did the GOP government (2001-2006) keep funding it?
Bill Bonde { ''Soylent Diesel is People'')
Because killing it would require explaining to the American people
that Amtrak is a mistake. It's far easier to start something than
it is to end something, especially something that a lot of people
become dependant on for their livelihoods or other needs.
Mitchell Holman
<tributyl...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in news:48703685...@yahoo.co.uk:
So Amtrak is a necessary service after all.
Just so......
mariposas rand mair fheal
"David Moffitt" <dmof...@stomping-leftist-twits.org> wrote:
i win again
David Johnston
mariposas rand mair fheal
"David Moffitt" <dmof...@stomping-leftist-twits.org> wrote:
most point to article i section viii paragraph vii
as giving the feds some responsibility
Gary DeWaay
Bill Bonde { ''Soylent Diesel is People'') says...
> > So why did the GOP government (2001-2006) keep funding it?
> >
> Because killing it would require explaining to the American people
> that Amtrak is a mistake. It's far easier to start something than
> it is to end something, especially something that a lot of people
> become dependant on for their livelihoods or other needs.
>
>
With 4 dollar gas.. it's actually amazing they didn't shit-can it so
they could now be all scrambling to figure out how to bring it back...
and blame Dems for axing it.
Bill Bonde { ''Soylent Diesel is People'')
I'm confused by that claim. The Americans don't need Amtrak.
> Just so......
>
Are you saying "Just so" as a reference to Kipling?
Bill Bonde { ''Soylent Diesel is People'')
I'm not arguing against trains, I'm arguing against Amtrak, you
twonk.
Gary DeWaay
> > With 4 dollar gas.. it's actually amazing they didn't shit-can it so
> > they could now be all scrambling to figure out how to bring it back...
> > and blame Dems for axing it.
> >
> I'm not arguing against trains, I'm arguing against Amtrak, you
> twonk.
>
>
Why??
"Penn Station was bustling yesterday - a sign not just of a busy holiday
weekend, but of a sharp rise in the number of people who have turned to
the train as gas and airline prices have soared. More than 18 million
riders took Amtrak during the period from last October until May, up
almost 11 percent from the year before. "
http://www.baltimoresun.com/travel/bal-
te.md.travel04jul04,0,1674043.story
Gary DeWaay
Slac...@Hotmail.com SlackJaw says...
> > > I would, if they were cheap, convenient, and clean like Europe's
> > > rail system.
> >
> > But they're not.. and they're not very fast either...
>
> And more expensive than a plane ticket. But it is run by the
> government, what do you expect?
>
>
You guys need to stop getting your news from Faux or Rush or
something...
Jeesh.
...quote....
"June Jordan usually flies when she goes to visit family in South
Carolina. But when she saw how high air fares have climbed, she decided
- for the first time - to take the train from Baltimore's Penn Station
to Columbia.
True, her Amtrak train would take 10 hours, getting her in at a sleepy
1:47 this morning. But Jordan, 66, had snacks, water and a Danielle
Steel romance to keep her company. With a senior discount, she saved
more than $200 by taking the train.
"Airfare is too expensive," said Jordan's daughter, Sandy Scheuerman,
who bought the $140 train ticket for her mother and was dropping her off
at the station.
Penn Station was bustling yesterday - a sign not just of a busy holiday
weekend, but of a sharp rise in the number of people who have turned to
the train as gas and airline prices have soared. More than 18 million
riders took Amtrak during the period from last October until May, up
almost 11 percent from the year before. "]
http://www.baltimoresun.com/travel/bal-
te.md.travel04jul04,0,1674043.story
...end quote...
mariposas rand mair fheal
Gary DeWaay <dewaay2...@sio.midco.net> wrote:
> "June Jordan usually flies when she goes to visit family in South
> Carolina. But when she saw how high air fares have climbed, she decided
> - for the first time - to take the train from Baltimore's Penn Station
> to Columbia.
amtrak may outgrow its subsidy on more routes
(some routes on the east coast have been profitable for years)
but some bus and train routes will remain losses
but by requiring unprofitable lines to remain
subsidying them if necessary
it means the bus and trains routes are in place and ready to use
if suddenly many people decided cars and planes are too expensive
Steve
<mair_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
<LOL> You win an award for making an ignorant reply?
Steve
Stupid government!
Steve
wrote:
Too late for what? why would they be any later than a public fire
department?
mariposas rand mair fheal
Steve <steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote:
what public fire department? you want free market fire fighting
SlackJaw
>
>
> SlackJaw wrote:
> >
>
> > Why is it that Europe and Asia can manage to create a decent public
> > transportation system, but not the U.S.?
> >
> America is a rural nation. Americans also wish to continue to have
> the freedom of their own car.
That doesn't excuse the government incompetence. With today's gas
prices and dismal airport service, we need a reliable rail system.
Other nations can do it, why are we sucha miseranle failure?
Steve
<mair_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I'm really very sorry for your inability to follow. I'll bet that's
been a real handicap for you all of your life...
SlackJaw
> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 18:39:11 -0500, "SlackJaw" <Slac...@Hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Steve wrote:
> >
> >> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:21:12 -0500, "SlackJaw"
> <Slac...@Hotmail.com> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Steve wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> > And it needs to buy new rail cars soon. Its Amfleet cars, the
> >> ones >> > recognizable to riders as the old Metroliners, are more
> >> than 30 >> > years old. And the Acela trains, which have been
> >> operating about >> > eight years, have about a million miles on
> them. >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> ...and yet it's all they need.. why should they have more..
> nobody >> >> rides the damned things anyway.
> >> >
> >> > I would, if they were cheap, convenient, and clean like Europe's
> >> > rail system.
> >>
> >> But they're not.. and they're not very fast either...
> >
> > And more expensive than a plane ticket. But it is run by the
> > government, what do you expect?
>
>
> I expect it to be wasteful and useless....
I'm afraid your expectations were met.
Steve
wrote:
>Steve wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 18:39:11 -0500, "SlackJaw" <Slac...@Hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Steve wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:21:12 -0500, "SlackJaw"
>> <Slac...@Hotmail.com> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Steve wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> > And it needs to buy new rail cars soon. Its Amfleet cars, the
>> >> ones >> > recognizable to riders as the old Metroliners, are more
>> >> than 30 >> > years old. And the Acela trains, which have been
>> >> operating about >> > eight years, have about a million miles on
>> them. >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ...and yet it's all they need.. why should they have more..
>> nobody >> >> rides the damned things anyway.
>> >> >
>> >> > I would, if they were cheap, convenient, and clean like Europe's
>> >> > rail system.
>> >>
>> >> But they're not.. and they're not very fast either...
>> >
>> > And more expensive than a plane ticket. But it is run by the
>> > government, what do you expect?
>>
>>
>> I expect it to be wasteful and useless....
>
>I'm afraid your expectations were met.
I know... there was an occasion recently when I actually
contemplated taking a train, simply to get around the discomfort of an
airplane seat, but then I checked out the schedules, the costs, the
related bus-rides, (etc) and I quickly changed my mind... I'd have
liked to have been around back when train travel was really nice... I
actually hope it comes back, but I know it never will as long as it's
run by the government.
Kurt Lochner
>
>shrill blond (''indirect and oft centered'') writhed in denials:
>
> >"slapped_jaw" <slapp...@hsd1.nj.comcast.net> sniveled:
- - -
> > >Why is it that Europe and Asia can manage to create a decent public
> > >transportation system, but not the U.S.?
> >
> >America is a rural nation. Americans also wish to continue to have
> >the freedom of their own car.
>
>That doesn't excuse the government incompetence. With today's gas
>prices and dismal airport service, we need a reliable rail system.
>
>Other nations can do it, why are we sucha miseranle failure?
*>LOL!<* Fueless cluck..
--The answer is right in front of you, stumbling out of your brain..
Kurt Lochner
>
> "slapped_jaw" <slapp...@hsd1.nj.comcast.net> whimpered with:
> >
> > Kurt Lochner was chastising the ambitious ignorance exhibited by:
Still making up your pathetic rationalization, Muffette? *>LOL!<*
>He posted some one else's diploma and a WalMart guitar.
Still trying to pretend that my full name wasn't on the diploma..
*>LOL!<* Too bad you don't know guitars, and have to speak so
negatively with your contentious ignorance.. Here's the guitar..
>(I haven't figured out what the picture of a cheap guitar was for)
Photographed against a backdrop of Orthogon ODFM transceivers
and quilt that would make for a very difficult "photoshop",
not to mention the lighting I deliberately chose..
>He has not paid off the bet yet.
That's because you're unwilling to admit that you're wrong,
even after you called the university and found out that I
do have a degree, in physics..
Which is why you're known as a dishonorable right-wing retard..
--Example follows..
_____________________________________________________________________
"%%%% Shall we say $5,000?"
"%%%% The college sais they never heard of you."
"%%%% I saw a generic BS degree with someone elses name on it"
"%%%% It was an easy bet since you do not have
and never will be asble to produce a physics degree."
"%%%% Show us your wrong answer again!"
"%%%% AMAZING! You got it wrong 20 times until you saw the
answer given by others!
"%%%% No need for an equation since objects fall at 32 feet
per second/per second and the ball was traveling at 1,000
feet per second.
(1) How far will the cannon ball go before it hits the ground?
----> 1,000 feet
(2) How long will it take for the cannon ball to hit the ground?
----> 1 second.?
Nope..
Since y and v(0)*t both equal zero, here's the next step..
32f = 16f/s^2 * t^2
Dividing the 16 out of the right side..
32'/16' = 2 = t^2 thus t = square root of 2 = 1.414 seconds..
--'nuff said..
Gary DeWaay
sjc.supernews.net>, mair_...@yahoo.com mariposas rand mair fheal
says...
> > "June Jordan usually flies when she goes to visit family in South
> > Carolina. But when she saw how high air fares have climbed, she decided
> > - for the first time - to take the train from Baltimore's Penn Station
> > to Columbia.
>
> amtrak may outgrow its subsidy on more routes
> (some routes on the east coast have been profitable for years)
> but some bus and train routes will remain losses
> but by requiring unprofitable lines to remain
> subsidying them if necessary
> it means the bus and trains routes are in place and ready to use
> if suddenly many people decided cars and planes are too expensive
>
Exactly.. which is why privataization isn't always the answer. I always
get into this with people that think we should do away with the US
postal service. Yea sure... people in cities might see better, cheaper
service, but people in the sticks would be left with no service
whatsoever.
Watch what happens with the airlines now that fuel prices makes it so
there are no longer any bargains... people might be pining for the days
of regulation.
David Moffitt
%%%% So why does that make the feds responsible for a train service.
"My sense of purpose is gone! I have no idea who I AM!"
"Oh, my God... You've.. You've turned him into a DEMOCRAT!" -- Doonesbury
David Moffitt
%%%% What did you win? ":o)
"My sense of purpose is gone! I have no idea who I AM!"
"Oh, my God... You've.. You've turned him into a DEMOCRAT!" -- Doonesbury
|
David Moffitt
"Mitchell Holman" <Noe...@comcast.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9AD2DD27...@216.196.97.131...
%%%% They did it without my support.
David Moffitt
"Gary DeWaay" <dewaay2...@sio.midco.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.22da200cf...@news.midco.net...
%%%% So why should a corn farmer in Iowa pay higher taxes so someone in
Maryland can ride a train?
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the
name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program
until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it
happened." -- Norman Thomas, American socialist
David Moffitt
| In article <MPG.22da20e8d...@news.midco.net>,
| Gary DeWaay <dewaay2...@sio.midco.net> wrote:
|
| > "June Jordan usually flies when she goes to visit family in South
| > Carolina. But when she saw how high air fares have climbed, she decided
| > - for the first time - to take the train from Baltimore's Penn Station
| > to Columbia.
|
| amtrak may outgrow its subsidy on more routes
| (some routes on the east coast have been profitable for years)
| but some bus and train routes will remain losses
| but by requiring unprofitable lines to remain
| subsidying them if necessary
| it means the bus and trains routes are in place and ready to use
| if suddenly many people decided cars and planes are too expensive
%%%% Those that use the train should pay what it takes to make the route
profitable. Does the government pay to keep the unprofitable bus route to
continue? No it doesn't and shouldn't pay for the train route either. Why
should I pay higher taxes to run a train I'll never ride?
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the
name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program
until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it
happened." -- Norman Thomas, American socialist
|
David Moffitt
%%%% Why should a farmer in Iowa who will never ride on a train pay for the
service of someone in Chicago?
David Moffitt
| In article <W5SdnUE0ibwCKfPV...@comcast.com>,
| Slac...@Hotmail.com SlackJaw says...
|
|
| > > > I would, if they were cheap, convenient, and clean like Europe's
| > > > rail system.
| > >
| > > But they're not.. and they're not very fast either...
| >
| > And more expensive than a plane ticket. But it is run by the
| > government, what do you expect?
| >
| >
|
|
| You guys need to stop getting your news from Faux or Rush or
| something...
| Jeesh.
|
| ...quote....
|
| "June Jordan usually flies when she goes to visit family in South
| Carolina.
%%%% At her expense.
But when she saw how high air fares have climbed, she decided
| - for the first time - to take the train from Baltimore's Penn Station
| to Columbia.
%%%% At the taxpayers expense.
|
| True, her Amtrak train would take 10 hours, getting her in at a sleepy
| 1:47 this morning. But Jordan, 66, had snacks, water and a Danielle
| Steel romance to keep her company. With a senior discount, she saved
| more than $200 by taking the train.
|
| "Airfare is too expensive," said Jordan's daughter, Sandy Scheuerman,
| who bought the $140 train ticket for her mother and was dropping her off
| at the station.
%%%% Subsidized at the expense of a corn farmer in Iowa.
"The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism, but under the
name of liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program
until one day America will be a socialist nation without ever knowing how it
happened." -- Norman Thomas, American socialist
|
Carl Swanson
> "Gary DeWaay" <dewaay2...@sio.midco.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.22da07d39...@news.midco.net...
> | In article <48703685...@yahoo.co.uk>, tributyl...@yahoo.co.uk
> | Bill Bonde { ''Soylent Diesel is People'') says...
> |
> |
> | > > So why did the GOP government (2001-2006) keep funding it?
> | > >
> | > Because killing it would require explaining to the American people
> | > that Amtrak is a mistake. It's far easier to start something than
> | > it is to end something, especially something that a lot of people
> | > become dependant on for their livelihoods or other needs.
> | >
> | >
> |
> |
> | With 4 dollar gas.. it's actually amazing they didn't shit-can it so
> | they could now be all scrambling to figure out how to bring it back...
> | and blame Dems for axing it.
>
> %%%% Why should a farmer in Iowa who will never ride on a train pay for the
> service of someone in Chicago?
>
Why should some single city person pay for the education of that
farmers children?
Carl Swanson
Why should someone who never flies subsidize an airport?
Mitchell Holman
>
> "Mitchell Holman" <Noe...@comcast.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9AD2DD27...@216.196.97.131...
>| "David Moffitt" <dmof...@stomping-leftist-twits.org> wrote in
>| news:KKednayJpNxAtu3V...@earthlink.com:
es
>| >| like libraries police streets fire city parks
>| >
>| > %%%% Amtrack is not a necessary service.
>|
>|
>| So why did the GOP government (2001-2006) keep funding it?
>
> %%%% They did it without my support.
That wasn't the question.
Mitchell Holman
>
> "Gary DeWaay" <dewaay2...@sio.midco.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.22da07d39...@news.midco.net...
>| In article <48703685...@yahoo.co.uk>,
>| tributyl...@yahoo.co.uk Bill Bonde { ''Soylent Diesel is People'')
>| says...
>|
>|
>| > > So why did the GOP government (2001-2006) keep funding it?
>| > >
>| > Because killing it would require explaining to the American people
>| > that Amtrak is a mistake. It's far easier to start something than
>| > it is to end something, especially something that a lot of people
>| > become dependant on for their livelihoods or other needs.
>| >
>| >
>|
>|
>| With 4 dollar gas.. it's actually amazing they didn't shit-can it so
>| they could now be all scrambling to figure out how to bring it back...
>| and blame Dems for axing it.
>
> %%%% Why should a farmer in Iowa who will never ride on a train pay for
> the service of someone in Chicago?
Why should that same farmer pay for maintaining Yellowstone
Park, the Statue of Liberty, an airbase in Iraq or the streets
that you use?
Mitchell Holman
"%%%% Obama is white."
David Moffitt, 6/25/08
Bill Bonde { ''Soylent Diesel is People'')
Gary DeWaay wrote:
>
> In article <487058E1...@yahoo.co.uk>, tributyl...@yahoo.co.uk
> Bill Bonde { ''Soylent Diesel is People'') says...
>
>
> > > With 4 dollar gas.. it's actually amazing they didn't shit-can it so
> > > they could now be all scrambling to figure out how to bring it back...
> > > and blame Dems for axing it.
> > >
> > I'm not arguing against trains, I'm arguing against Amtrak, you
> > twonk.
> >
> >
>
> Why??
>
Because Amtrak is preventing real train service from coming to
America. I want to see competition and most of all, I want to see
combined high value freight and passengers done correctly. This is
how the airlines make money, when they are making money.
> "Penn Station was bustling yesterday - a sign not just of a busy holiday
> weekend, but of a sharp rise in the number of people who have turned to
> the train as gas and airline prices have soared. More than 18 million
> riders took Amtrak during the period from last October until May, up
> almost 11 percent from the year before. "
>
I don't doubt that more people are taking the bus too. It's too bad
that the US has waited so long to axe Amtrak.
--
"It happens sometimes, people just explode, natural causes."
-+Alex Cox, "Repo Man"
Bill Bonde { ''Soylent Diesel is People'')
That's a good question. General property taxes really should not be
used to pay for schools. Of course that said, there are public
policy reasons to pay for schools somehow, that isn't true of just
wasting money on Amtrak and other failed public transport systems.
Bill Bonde { ''Soylent Diesel is People'')
Because those things are things that are the responsibility of the
national government.
Bill Bonde { ''Soylent Diesel is People'')
Airports shouldn't be subsidized.
Bill Bonde { ''Soylent Diesel is People'')
Gary DeWaay wrote:
>
> In article <mair_fheal-A0375...@sn-ip.vsrv-
> sjc.supernews.net>, mair_...@yahoo.com mariposas rand mair fheal
> says...
>
>
> > > "June Jordan usually flies when she goes to visit family in South
> > > Carolina. But when she saw how high air fares have climbed, she decided
> > > - for the first time - to take the train from Baltimore's Penn Station
> > > to Columbia.
> >
> > amtrak may outgrow its subsidy on more routes
> > (some routes on the east coast have been profitable for years)
> > but some bus and train routes will remain losses
> > but by requiring unprofitable lines to remain
> > subsidying them if necessary
> > it means the bus and trains routes are in place and ready to use
> > if suddenly many people decided cars and planes are too expensive
> >
>
> Exactly.. which is why privataization isn't always the answer. I always
> get into this with people that think we should do away with the US
> postal service.
>
The post office does what exactly? People don't mail letters
anymore. They pay bills online. They use UPS and Fedex for
packages. Basically the USPS is a system for delivering massive
quantities of physical spam.
> Yea sure... people in cities might see better, cheaper
> service, but people in the sticks would be left with no service
> whatsoever.
>
> Watch what happens with the airlines now that fuel prices makes it so
> there are no longer any bargains... people might be pining for the days
> of regulation.
>
Why would regulation make fares bargains? In the past, it's made
them higher.
Bill Bonde { ''Soylent Diesel is People'')
Rail service needs to be privatized. By doing that, you could see,
for example, a regular service that not only took people across the
state but also took freight. Trucks could be driven up on flat cars
and then offloaded quickly even a few hundred miles away. This
would mean fewer trucks on the roads and much lower costs for
moving that freight. This is important to integrate with people
moving because much of this sort of freight is time sensitive.
Gary DeWaay
dmof...@stomping-leftist-twits.org David Moffitt says...
> %%%% So why should a corn farmer in Iowa pay higher taxes so someone in
> Maryland can ride a train?
>
>
It's called "greater good"... I know how foreign this is to a "me-
first" rightie, but thats how civilized societies operate.
Why don't you move to an island somewhere with all the rest of the 33
percenters and you all could do everything on a pay as you go basis..
you know... like how you supposedly paid for you cancer treatment?
Gary DeWaay
dmof...@stomping-leftist-twits.org David Moffitt says...
> | "Airfare is too expensive," said Jordan's daughter, Sandy Scheuerman,
> | who bought the $140 train ticket for her mother and was dropping her off
> | at the station.
>
> %%%% Subsidized at the expense of a corn farmer in Iowa.
>
>
Speaking of which.. why didn't the Pubs reduce the farm subsidies when
they were in complete control of the government for 6 years?
Gary DeWaay
>
>
> Gary DeWaay wrote:
> >
> > In article <487058E1...@yahoo.co.uk>, tributyl...@yahoo.co.uk
> > Bill Bonde { ''Soylent Diesel is People'') says...
> >
> >
> > > > With 4 dollar gas.. it's actually amazing they didn't shit-can it so
> > > > they could now be all scrambling to figure out how to bring it back...
> > > > and blame Dems for axing it.
> > > >
> > > I'm not arguing against trains, I'm arguing against Amtrak, you
> > > twonk.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Why??
> >
> Because Amtrak is preventing real train service from coming to
> America. I want to see competition and most of all, I want to see
> combined high value freight and passengers done correctly. This is
> how the airlines make money, when they are making money.
>
>
Are you suggesting that America is lacking in already built railroads or
something Billy?
If a private company thought hauling people across this vast country
would be profitable, it would already be operating.
Bill Bonde { ''Soylent Diesel is People'')
Gary DeWaay wrote:
>
> In article <4870F2DB...@yahoo.co.uk>, tributyl...@yahoo.co.uk
> Bill Bonde { ''Soylent Diesel is People'') says...
>
>
> >
> >
> > Gary DeWaay wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <487058E1...@yahoo.co.uk>, tributyl...@yahoo.co.uk
> > > Bill Bonde { ''Soylent Diesel is People'') says...
> > >
> > >
> > > > > With 4 dollar gas.. it's actually amazing they didn't shit-can it so
> > > > > they could now be all scrambling to figure out how to bring it back...
> > > > > and blame Dems for axing it.
> > > > >
> > > > I'm not arguing against trains, I'm arguing against Amtrak, you
> > > > twonk.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Why??
> > >
> > Because Amtrak is preventing real train service from coming to
> > America. I want to see competition and most of all, I want to see
> > combined high value freight and passengers done correctly. This is
> > how the airlines make money, when they are making money.
> >
> >
>
> Are you suggesting that America is lacking in already built railroads or
> something Billy?
>
I think that America has been ripping up rails and putting in bike
trails.
> If a private company thought hauling people across this vast country
> would be profitable, it would already be operating.
>
It can't do that if Amtrak has a monopoly. And I'm talking about
mixed transport, people and freight.
Bill Bonde { ''Soylent Diesel is People'')
Jim Jeffords.
Mitchell Holman
Ditto for Amtrak.
Steve
he shouldn't
Steve
the leftist term, "greater good" translates to, "have the successful
people pay for the losers."
Bill Bonde { ''Soylent Diesel is People'')
Where does Amtrak get mentioned in the Constitution?
Mitchell Holman
It is in the same place as Yellowstone Park and the
Statue of Liberty and the Reagan Airport.
znuybv
wrote:
> In article <bjiu649u2t9326050vdpgf7c1u16hth...@4ax.com>,
>
>
>
> Steve <stevencan...@yahooooooo.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 18:39:11 -0500, "SlackJaw" <Slack...@Hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > >Steve wrote:
>
> > >> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 12:21:12 -0500, "SlackJaw" <Slack...@Hotmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
>
> > >> > Steve wrote:
>
> > >> >> > And it needs to buy new rail cars soon. Its Amfleet cars, the
> > >> ones >> > recognizable to riders as the old Metroliners, are more
> > >> than 30 >> > years old. And the Acela trains, which have been
> > >> operating about >> > eight years, have about a million miles on them.
>
> > >> >> ...and yet it's all they need.. why should they have more.. nobody
> > >> >> rides the damned things anyway.
>
> > >> > I would, if they were cheap, convenient, and clean like Europe's
> > >> > rail system.
>
> > >> But they're not.. and they're not very fast either...
>
> > >And more expensive than a plane ticket. But it is run by the
> > >government, what do you expect?
>
> > I expect it to be wasteful and useless....
>
> if the free market could provide the service you wouldnt need the government to
>
> going to demand congress intervene?
>
> arf meow arf - raggedy ann and andy for president and vice
> limp and spineless lint for brains is better yet and nice
> then rueing pair of shrub and dick the republican lice
> call me desdenova seven seven seven seven seven seven
You deserve $5 gasoline. You keep electing politicians who do their
best to make energy as expensive as they can.
If you want higher energy costs and higher taxes; VOTE DEMOCRAT
David Johnston
<steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 03:44:20 GMT, David Johnston <da...@block.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 11:34:00 -0400, Steve
>><steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 15:22:53 GMT, David Johnston <da...@block.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 10:57:15 -0400, Steve
>>>><steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 06:39:39 -0700, mariposas rand mair fheal
>>>>><mair_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>In article <tlqu6415kn4h60m50...@4ax.com>,
>>>>>> Steve <steven...@yahooooooo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >be specific
>>>>>>> >list anything you think is necessary service and show to make it pay for
>>>>>>> >itself
>>>>>>> >and what you dont list one can assume you claim is not necessary
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <LOL> Any and all of what you mentioned.. for instance, if people
>>>>>>> believe that police and firemen are necessary, they will pay for
>>>>>>> them.. of course, there are those that might not be able to pay for
>>>>>>> them... too bad.....
>>>>>>
>>>>>>okay
>>>>>>so your idea of successful society denies necessities to poor people
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm not denying anything... I'm just to wiling to pay for it
>>>>
>>>>That's an intriguing idea. It means for example that you can expect
>>>>fires that spread across most of the city destroying most of it
>>>>because the fire fighters only respond to them after the situation is
>>>>utterly uncontrollable.
>>>
>>>That's a ridiculous claim.. a private fire brigade would spring into
>>>action any time their customers requested them...
>>
>>Which will be too late.
>
>Too late for what? why would they be any later than a public fire
>department?
Because public fire departments mobilise when they notice a fire.
Private fire departments mobilise when their clients decide a fire
might be dangerous to them, which, when the fire starts in a
neighborhood too poor to afford a fire department will be long after
it is out of control.
mariposas rand mair fheal
"Bill Bonde { ''Soylent Diesel is People'')" <tributyl...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
> Because Amtrak is preventing real train service from coming to
> America. I want to see competition and most of all, I want to see
competition wouldve ended nearly all passenger rail outside northeast usa
and it would be unavailable to most americans today