Hundreds Show for Ten Commandments
Arne Langsetmo
>
> "mahabarbara" < wrote
> > "PBarker" <bark...@nospam.erinet.com> wrote:
>
> > You are a living example of why separation of church and state
> > is a good idea, and why the Ten Commandments should NOT be
> > posted in government buildings.
>
> + Why?
>
> > You are free to believe as you wish, but when your [Christian]
> > religion is enshrined as part of a government-sanctioned and
> > taxpayer-supported display, this is what is
> > called "establishment of religion." And the First Amendment of
> > the Constitution forbids this.
>
> + Which of the commandments do you find offensive?
No one said "offensive" here, AFAIK. But the first four are
pretty useless and meaningless to most people.
> > The Constitution does not allow government to favor one religion
> > over another; hence, as far as government is concerned, the
> > Jewish interpretation is as valid as yours. And, in fact, as far
> > as government is concerned, the Analects of Confucious and the
> > Sutras of the Buddha and the Upanishads of Hindu are also as
> > valid as the Ten Commandments.
>
> + Except that the framers and writers of our constitution were
> mostly of Christian descent.
So? "God" is not mentioned in the Constitution, and "religion"
only once (and one more time in the BoR) and then only to put
restrictions on what government may do WRT religious issues.
And your "Jayyyyzzzuuss" scores a bit fat zero in plaudits
in the Constitution.
_None_ of the Ten Commandments find any parallel in Constitutional
provisions (with the possible sole exception of not counting
Sundays for one purpose, but this is arguable as being the
implementation of a Commendment).
Cheers,
-- Arne Langsetmo
Arne Langsetmo
[snip]
> It should be noted that this Christian bashing attitude is
> not without consequences. A man was arrested yesterday who
> confessed to burning 26 Christian churches in 6 states. Who
> implanted this hate?
My guess would be the churches themselves.
> Some of the school shootings also targeted Christians.
Oh, really? Seems that the Cassie Bernal story was made
up. The actual person involved was a different girl, but
the story was quite a bit embellished even if you correct
the names. I don't think there was any good evidence
they targetted Christians in particular.
> Where did they learn this intolerance?
My guess would be from Christians.
> . . . What about the man
> in Texas who targeted churchgoers for shooting. What made
> him think they deserved shooting?
My guess would be that church or another one like it.
> Christian bashers are the ones planting the seeds of hate.
No. The churches have _always_ been more than adequate
in making their own enemies.
And the more obnoxious their proselytising, and the more
arrogant they are in their sham piousness, the more
people will hate them. Or laugh at them. Depending on
how much of a sense of humour such people have.
Cheers,
-- Arne Langsetmo
Lone Haranguer
Arne Langsetmo wrote:
>
> Lone Haranguer wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > It should be noted that this Christian bashing attitude is
> > not without consequences. A man was arrested yesterday who
> > confessed to burning 26 Christian churches in 6 states. Who
> > implanted this hate?
>
> My guess would be the churches themselves.
Your guess would be incorrect. People like Arne preach most
of the hate. They don't wear white sheets but preach the
same gospel.
>
> > Some of the school shootings also targeted Christians.
>
> Oh, really? Seems that the Cassie Bernal story was made
> up. The actual person involved was a different girl, but
> the story was quite a bit embellished even if you correct
> the names. I don't think there was any good evidence
> they targetted Christians in particular.
Proof please.
>
> > Where did they learn this intolerance?
>
> My guess would be from Christians.
>
Former Christians perhaps. The new KKK with suits.
> > . . . What about the man
> > in Texas who targeted churchgoers for shooting. What made
> > him think they deserved shooting?
>
> My guess would be that church or another one like it.
My guess would be intolerant creeps like Arne.
>
> > Christian bashers are the ones planting the seeds of hate.
>
> No. The churches have _always_ been more than adequate
> in making their own enemies.
>
Religions fight among themselves frequently. Now the
anti-religionists are spreading hate against the main
religions.
> And the more obnoxious their proselytising, and the more
> arrogant they are in their sham piousness, the more
> people will hate them. Or laugh at them. Depending on
> how much of a sense of humour such people have.
Your hate is obvious Arne. I think you should be on the
FBI's hate group list.
LZ
>
> Cheers,
>
> -- Arne Langsetmo
Lone Haranguer
la...@rightwingers.net wrote:
>
> Lone Haranguer <lin...@uswest.net> wrote:
>
> >Your guess would be incorrect. People like Arne preach most
> >of the hate. They don't wear white sheets but preach the
> >same gospel.
>
> snip>
>
>
>
> >Proof please.
>
>
> > el snipo>
>
>
> >Former Christians perhaps. The new KKK with suits.
>
> mas el snipo>
>
> >My guess would be intolerant creeps like Arne.
>
>And Roselle.
>
> >Religions fight among themselves frequently. Now the
> >anti-religionists are spreading hate against the main
> >religions.
>
>
Poltroon? Is that still in the dictionary?
>
Rev. Moon, you simple witted idiot.
What's this fixation with the Rev Moon? Is it true he gave
you the boot for skimming from the collection plate?
>
> >Your hate is obvious Arne. I think you should be on the
> >FBI's hate group list. You too rosey. But you probably are on it already for obvious reasons.
>
> Not before your godamned cult leader moon, numbnutz
An obvious anti-religious wacko. Burn any churches lately
rosey?
LZ
la...@rightwingers.net
>Your guess would be incorrect. People like Arne preach most
>of the hate. They don't wear white sheets but preach the
>same gospel.
Bullshit whineus Zimmerlooon
The basis for wearing "white sheets" is predicated in Scripture, taught by
dimwitted fundamentalists who can find a reason for just about everything in
"Scripture"
>Proof please.
"proof"???
What have you EVER done with "proof" when it's supplied to you, whinus?
>Former Christians perhaps. The new KKK with suits.
David Dukes your right wing idiot, is KKK and wears a suit.
>My guess would be intolerant creeps like Arne.
Intolerance preached by BJU, David Dobson, Marlin Matlin, Jerry Falwell
incorporated in homophobia, bigotry, racism, and hypocrisy are ALL based on
Scriptural interpretation, you dumb asshole.
>Religions fight among themselves frequently. Now the
>anti-religionists are spreading hate against the main
>religions.
Who are the "anti-religionists" that have a massive media audience, you
poltroon?
The ones who spout that invective are the mainstream Southern Baptists, and
Rev. Moon, you simple witted idiot.
>Your hate is obvious Arne. I think you should be on the
>FBI's hate group list.
Not before your godamned cult leader moon, numbnutz
la...@rightwingers.net
>Poltroon? Is that still in the dictionary?
Must be.. You're here, aren't you?
>What's this fixation with the Rev Moon? Is it true he gave
>you the boot for skimming from the collection plate?
No, whinus. Your cult leader is a convicted felon.
>> Not before your godamned cult leader moon, numbnutz
>
>An obvious anti-religious wacko. Burn any churches lately
>rosey?
NO, your pedophile buddy seems to take care of those kinds of weenie
roasts and human barbecues for everyone.
Lone Haranguer
la...@rightwingers.net wrote:
>
> Lone Haranguer <lin...@uswest.net> wrote:
>
> >Poltroon? Is that still in the dictionary?
>
> Must be.. You're here, aren't you?
Iron clad logic rosey?
>
> >What's this fixation with the Rev Moon? Is it true he gave
> >you the boot for skimming from the collection plate?
>
> No, whinus. Your cult leader is a convicted felon.
>
Yours committed suicide when the Russkies closed in.
> >> Not before your godamned cult leader moon, numbnutz
> >
> >An obvious anti-religious wacko. Burn any churches lately
> >rosey?
>
> NO, your pedophile buddy seems to take care of those kinds of weenie
> roasts and human barbecues for everyone.
With the assistance of the FBI.
LZ
la...@rightwingers.net
>> No, whinus. Your cult leader is a convicted felon.
>Yours committed suicide when the Russkies closed in.
So, now you think I'm a right winger?
>> >An obvious anti-religious wacko. Burn any churches lately
>> >rosey?
>> NO, your pedophile buddy seems to take care of those kinds of weenie
>> roasts and human barbecues for everyone.
>With the assistance of the FBI.
Isn't it a shame that the ONLY evidence of that is in your fucked head?
PBarker
, AFAIK. But the first four are
> pretty useless and meaningless to most people.
+ I'm afraid you'll have to spell that out for me.
+ And,... "most" people?
+ Hmmmmm... What do you mean by "most" people?
+ Do you have a reference here?
+ Are you aware that there are one billion catholics in the world?
Lone Haranguer
No tanks, no gas=no fire, no dead. Kapish?
LZ
Lone Haranguer
Volt wrote:
> Looks like Linwuss has not been following the Waco trial.
>
> The Dividiots not only set the fire but then shot and stabbed their
> own children.
>
> Have you said a prayer for Burnin' Vernon today, Mr. Zimmermann?
>
I've followed the trial quite a bit. The jury (5 and only
"advisors") were polled and ruled in favor of the
government.
I sympathize totally with the members of his group.
Innocent believers should not be demonized just because our
government has chosen to make them examples. They were
victims of both Koresh AND the government. Koresh can be
dismissed as an obsessed religious leader. What excuse do
you make for the government agents? Were they out of
control too? Who will be the next "examples"?
LZ
> Volt
>
> Ecrasons l'infame
>
> Join the War on Right Wing Ignorance
> http://clusterone.home.mindspring.com/
>
> Campaign 2000
> http://clusterone.home.mindspring.com/campaign2000.html
>
> =============================================================
> "When James Byrd is dragged to his death behind a pickup truck, then the
> governor of his home state ought to at least heed the family's plea for
> action. One brief sentence that said the word 'yes' would have mattered
> a whole lot more to the cause of justice than a whole speech that didn't
> even mention hate crimes, the future of the Supreme Court, taking down
> the Confederate flag, ending racial profiling, or defending affirmative
> action, or Bob Jones University."
>
> --Vice President Al Gore to the NAACP Convention
> =============================================================
nosp...@my-deja.com
lin...@uswest.net wrote:
>
> I've followed the trial quite a bit. The jury (5 and only
> "advisors") were polled and ruled in favor of the
> government.
>
> I sympathize totally with the members of his group.
> Innocent believers should not be demonized just because our
> government has chosen to make them examples. They were
> victims of both Koresh AND the government. Koresh can be
> dismissed as an obsessed religious leader. What excuse do
> you make for the government agents? Were they out of
> control too? Who will be the next "examples"?
Well we have been waiting 8 years now, during which time many religious
nuts have lead their followers to murder and suicide.
As for these innocent followers, two juries now have ruled, one finding
many of the survivors guilty of manslaughter (a serious charge despite
what you say) and another here has found that the Davidians hold full
responsibility for the fire. Following the case it was clear no other
conclusion could have been reached in this case. The first judgement
has been held up by the supreme court, all of its memebers. And despite
the GOP desire to make some political gain out of this (likely
contributing to the OKC terrorism) even the most biased and corrupt of
republicans has not been able to assert a case in favor of the
Davidians.
The book is closed on this. The Davidians opened fire on the ATF
because they were lead by nuts, and they then set their compound on
fire.
> LZ
>
> > Volt
> >
> > Ecrasons l'infame
> >
> > Join the War on Right Wing Ignorance
> > http://clusterone.home.mindspring.com/
> >
> > Campaign 2000
> > http://clusterone.home.mindspring.com/campaign2000.html
> >
> > =============================================================
> > "When James Byrd is dragged to his death behind a pickup truck, then
the
> > governor of his home state ought to at least heed the family's plea
for
> > action. One brief sentence that said the word 'yes' would have
mattered
> > a whole lot more to the cause of justice than a whole speech that
didn't
> > even mention hate crimes, the future of the Supreme Court, taking
down
> > the Confederate flag, ending racial profiling, or defending
affirmative
> > action, or Bob Jones University."
> >
> > --Vice President Al Gore to the
NAACP Convention
> > =============================================================
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Lone Haranguer
You are really dense Bob. The book will NEVER be closed on
this. MANY people will NEVER trust a government agent of
any kind again.
Any clear thinking person simply cannot lay all the blame on
the Davidians and giving this case back to Judge Smith and
his "advisory" jury is an insult to justice. The first jury
wanted the government agents tried too and a lot more
information has leaked out since.
Your attempt to blame Tim McVeigh on the Republicans is a
joke. If you had the brains of a gnat you would KNOW that
he did it to call attention to an injustice. As long as the
injustice continues it will be festering in some deranged
person's mind. A deranged person can justify any terrorist
act in his mind as "getting even" with a corrupt
government. More injustice just fuels the fire.
Just hope there are not many wackos out there.
LZ
Zepp, Son of Weasel
wrote:
>
>
>Volt wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:56:20 GMT, la...@rightwingers.net wrote:
>>
>> >Lone Haranguer <lin...@uswest.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >>> No, whinus. Your cult leader is a convicted felon.
>> >
>> >>Yours committed suicide when the Russkies closed in.
>> >
>> >So, now you think I'm a right winger?
>> >
>> >>> >An obvious anti-religious wacko. Burn any churches lately
>> >>> >rosey?
>> >
>> >>> NO, your pedophile buddy seems to take care of those kinds of weenie
>> >>> roasts and human barbecues for everyone.
>> >
>> >>With the assistance of the FBI.
>> >
>> >Isn't it a shame that the ONLY evidence of that is in your fucked head?
>>
>> Looks like Linwuss has not been following the Waco trial.
>>
>> The Dividiots not only set the fire but then shot and stabbed their
>> own children.
>>
>> Have you said a prayer for Burnin' Vernon today, Mr. Zimmermann?
>>
>I've followed the trial quite a bit. The jury (5 and only
>"advisors") were polled and ruled in favor of the
>government.
>
>I sympathize totally with the members of his group.
>Innocent believers should not be demonized just because our
>government has chosen to make them examples. They were
>victims of both Koresh AND the government. Koresh can be
>dismissed as an obsessed religious leader. What excuse do
>you make for the government agents? Were they out of
>control too? Who will be the next "examples"?
How do you explain the fact that most of the dead were shot, at close
range, in the back of the head, prior to the fire?
>LZ
>
>
>
>> Volt
>>
>> Ecrasons l'infame
>>
>> Join the War on Right Wing Ignorance
>> http://clusterone.home.mindspring.com/
>>
>> Campaign 2000
>> http://clusterone.home.mindspring.com/campaign2000.html
>>
>> =============================================================
>> "When James Byrd is dragged to his death behind a pickup truck, then the
>> governor of his home state ought to at least heed the family's plea for
>> action. One brief sentence that said the word 'yes' would have mattered
>> a whole lot more to the cause of justice than a whole speech that didn't
>> even mention hate crimes, the future of the Supreme Court, taking down
>> the Confederate flag, ending racial profiling, or defending affirmative
>> action, or Bob Jones University."
>>
>> --Vice President Al Gore to the NAACP Convention
>> =============================================================
**********************************************************
"Omigosh! It's large Negroes with guns! Wait! Wait! We don't believe in
the second amendment after all!" -- Texas GOP, as Armed Black Panthers
marched toward their convention.
George W. Bush: Putting the "W" in "AWOL"
**********************************************************
Not dead, in jail or a slave?
Thank a liberal!
For more of Zepp's Commentary, go to http://www.snowcrest.net/zepp/zeppol.htm
Warning: Contains ideas
For all things liberal/leftist http://www.snowcrest.net/zepp/lynx.htm
************************************************************
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
Lone Haranguer
Obvious mercy killings. You claim "most". Got any numbers? Remember ,
they have to be close range (hard to tell after a fire) AND in the back
of the head. Failure to post such proof will mean you don't have it.
(Rules set by your pals.)
Lone Haranguer
Kurt Lochner wrote:
>
> Whinus Zimmerloon <lin...@uswest.net> was being silly when:
> >
> > "Zepp, Son of Weasel" wrote:
> > >
> > >Whinus Zimmerloon <lin...@uswest.net> whimpered about:
> > > >
> > > > Volt wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> la...@rightwingers.net wrote:
> Yeah.. Do you?
Yes. They are less than a third and some came from outside the
building.
>
> >Remember, they have to be close range (hard to tell after a fire)
>
> Why do you 'think' that, Whinus?
>
Because he says "at close range, in the back of the head" oh illiterate
one.
> >[..]Failure to post such proof will mean you don't have it.
>
> No one is obligated to disprove your negative claims, Whinus..
It's NOT a negative claim, turnip head. It's what your pal claimed
above.
I take it you have nothing to offer either?
Thought so. If you run real fast you can still catch up with the turnip
truck.
LZ
>
> --Ecrasons l'infame!!
Zepp, Son of Weasel
wrote:
Mercy killings, eh? Spoken like a true wingnut.
>
>>Remember, they have to be close range (hard to tell after a fire)
>
>Why do you 'think' that, Whinus?
Forensic evidence showed that nearly all of the kids died that way,
and about one third of the adults.
>
>>[..]Failure to post such proof will mean you don't have it.
>
>No one is obligated to disprove your negative claims, Whinus..
>
In this case, all he has to do is get transcripts from the trial that
just rendered the jury verdict. Or the trial before that.
I think old Linus is too busy hating the United States to pay any
attention to stuff like that, though.
>--Ecrasons l'infame!!
Lone Haranguer
I believe you'll find it in the coroners comments.
> >>Remember, they have to be close range (hard to tell after a fire)
> >
> >Why do you 'think' that, Whinus?
>
> Forensic evidence showed that nearly all of the kids died that way,
> and about one third of the adults.
>
Best give the cite then because I read 20 in the bunker including adults
and children. I believe the autopsies showed a number of children dying
from asphyxiation.
>
> >>[..]Failure to post such proof will mean you don't have it.
> >
> >No one is obligated to disprove your negative claims, Whinus..
> >
> In this case, all he has to do is get transcripts from the trial that
> just rendered the jury verdict. Or the trial before that.
They weren't negative claims. You folks posted the "shot in the head,
mostly from close range" and "nearly all the kids" blather so I suggest
you furnish the cite, I've read all the stuff out there at one time or
another and there is a lot to look at. Your side makes me furnish cites
so you can do the same.
>
> I think old Linus is too busy hating the United States to pay any
> attention to stuff like that, though.
You're a moron. I served the United States well for many years and love
it dearly. I doubt a single one of the opposition has made near the
sacrifices for their country that I have.
It's because I love my country that I hate to see it's law violated by
my own government. It will be a happy day when the criminals at the DOJ
and White House are gone. I'll be celebrating to excess.
LZ
Zepp, Son of Weasel
wrote:
>
>
I bet you believe a lot of right wing loonyisms.
>
>
>
>> >>Remember, they have to be close range (hard to tell after a fire)
>> >
>> >Why do you 'think' that, Whinus?
>>
>> Forensic evidence showed that nearly all of the kids died that way,
>> and about one third of the adults.
>>
>Best give the cite then because I read 20 in the bunker including adults
>and children. I believe the autopsies showed a number of children dying
>from asphyxiation.
>
Just a couple. The rest were shot. Koresh probably didn't want them
discussion after-dinner activities.
>
>>
>> >>[..]Failure to post such proof will mean you don't have it.
>> >
>> >No one is obligated to disprove your negative claims, Whinus..
>> >
>> In this case, all he has to do is get transcripts from the trial that
>> just rendered the jury verdict. Or the trial before that.
>
>They weren't negative claims. You folks posted the "shot in the head,
>mostly from close range" and "nearly all the kids" blather so I suggest
>you furnish the cite, I've read all the stuff out there at one time or
>another and there is a lot to look at. Your side makes me furnish cites
>so you can do the same.
>
OK: Cite: the trial that just ended. Transcripts from the previous
trial a couple of years back.
>>
>> I think old Linus is too busy hating the United States to pay any
>> attention to stuff like that, though.
>
>You're a moron. I served the United States well for many years and love
>it dearly. I doubt a single one of the opposition has made near the
>sacrifices for their country that I have.
But you believe that your country kills children for no particular
reason.
Interesting ideals you fight for, buddy. So did you know you were
fighting for the right to immolate children when you joined up, or was
that just an unexpected perk?
>
>It's because I love my country that I hate to see it's law violated by
>my own government. It will be a happy day when the criminals at the DOJ
>and White House are gone. I'll be celebrating to excess.
If you loved your country, you would pay attention to evidence and
rule of law, and quite smearing your own government.
Lone Haranguer
How about posting them so we can compare them to the truth. You said
"most".
> >>
> >> Mercy killings, eh? Spoken like a true wingnut.
> >> >
> >I believe you'll find it in the coroners comments.
>
> I bet you believe a lot of right wing loonyisms.
> >
Proof that the coroner was a right winger?
> >
> >
> >> >>Remember, they have to be close range (hard to tell after a fire)
> >> >
> >> >Why do you 'think' that, Whinus?
> >>
> >> Forensic evidence showed that nearly all of the kids died that way,
> >> and about one third of the adults.
> >>
> >Best give the cite then because I read 20 in the bunker including adults
> >and children. I believe the autopsies showed a number of children dying
> >from asphyxiation.
> >
> Just a couple. The rest were shot. Koresh probably didn't want them
> discussion after-dinner activities.
> >
Their lungs were full of CS gas. THAT is what killed them. The bodies
and the autopsies are listed.
> >>
> >> >>[..]Failure to post such proof will mean you don't have it.
> >> >
> >> >No one is obligated to disprove your negative claims, Whinus..
> >> >
> >> In this case, all he has to do is get transcripts from the trial that
> >> just rendered the jury verdict. Or the trial before that.
> >
> >They weren't negative claims. You folks posted the "shot in the head,
> >mostly from close range" and "nearly all the kids" blather so I suggest
> >you furnish the cite, I've read all the stuff out there at one time or
> >another and there is a lot to look at. Your side makes me furnish cites
> >so you can do the same.
> >
> OK: Cite: the trial that just ended. Transcripts from the previous
> trial a couple of years back.
>
That is your cite? My cite is the coroner who said many died from Cs
gas and the gas expert who saw the bodies. Some live video is contained
in the documentary film also. View it.
> >>
> >> I think old Linus is too busy hating the United States to pay any
> >> attention to stuff like that, though.
> >
> >You're a moron. I served the United States well for many years and love
> >it dearly. I doubt a single one of the opposition has made near the
> >sacrifices for their country that I have.
>
> But you believe that your country kills children for no particular
> reason.
The ATF made the raid for publicity purposes ONLY. They could have
arrested Koresh on any occasion when he left the compound but CHOSE not
to. Once the ATF agents were killed and they were embarrassed by their
ineptitude it became a revenge matter. It is blatantly clear in the
destruction of the Davidian's cars, the mooning of the inhabitants, the
taunting, the petty harassments and the final plan to kill them in the
tank attack. Only A TOTAL MORON COULD DENY IT.
>
> Interesting ideals you fight for, buddy. So did you know you were
> fighting for the right to immolate children when you joined up, or was
> that just an unexpected perk?
>
We were operating under strict UN rules when I was in combat. Each
mission was debriefed by Intelligence personnel and the UN Command got
copies.
>
> >It's because I love my country that I hate to see it's law violated by
> >my own government. It will be a happy day when the criminals at the DOJ
> >and White House are gone. I'll be celebrating to excess.
>
> If you loved your country, you would pay attention to evidence and
> rule of law, and quite smearing your own government.
I have. That is why I KNOW the government is lying. Some FBI agents
have changed their stories greatly from original debriefings. They lied
about the warrant, they lied about the gas grenades, they lied about the
concussion grenades, they lied about guns in the choppers, they lied
about participation of the Delta Team. They destroyed evidence, engaged
in mass cover up activities and generally acted the part of hardened
criminals. While the Davidians may have told a few minor lies, the
government agents have told all the BIG LIES and there is plenty of
proof too.
LZ
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >--Ecrasons l'infame!!=====Volt is a horse's ass.
Rob Robertson
<snip>
> Mercy killings, eh? Spoken like a true wingnut.
"Most of the children and babies that died as a result were spared
a cruel and pathological tyrant as a paternal figure and biological
father."
- Kurt Lochner's justification for immolating children
_
RR
Zepp, Son of Weasel
wrote:
Yeah. All but three of the children died of gunshot wounds.
>
>> >>
>> >> Mercy killings, eh? Spoken like a true wingnut.
>> >> >
>> >I believe you'll find it in the coroners comments.
>>
>> I bet you believe a lot of right wing loonyisms.
>> >
>Proof that the coroner was a right winger?
Proof that his report contained your loony toon nonsense?
**********************************************************
Bush said Heaven is Only Open to Those Who Accept Jesus Christ. "One
decision of which Bush is certain is that heaven is open only to those
who accept Jesus Christ."
[Texas Observer, 5/14/99, quoting Jewish Herald Voice, 11/2/94]
Lone Haranguer
A BIG lie Zeppy. 8 children died of CS gas poisoning. Ergo the FBI
murdered them. They had NO smoke in their lungs yet cause of death was
asphyxiation. Apparently you have not read the autopsies. The list was
posted recently on this NG.
I guess Zeppy didn't want to answer any of the BIG questions.
Lvis
FBI
murdered them. They had NO smoke in their lungs yet cause of death was
asphyxiation. Apparently you have not read the autopsies. The list was
posted recently on this NG."
Do not confuse zepper with the facts. He has determined that his best course
of action is to blindly believe whatever the government tells him to believe
and that is that.
zepper HAS to believe that the government is incapable of doing harm to
anyone. His entire agenda is to transfer all responsibility for everyone's
lives over to the Imperial Federal Government.
Freedom is too great a burden on such untalented wretches as zepper. They
wish to be freed from the burdens of personal freedom.
Lvis.
--
"If the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution inhibit the
government's ability to govern the people, we should look to limit those
guarantees."
-- President Bill Clinton, August 12, 1993
Arne Langsetmo
> Arne Langsetmo wrote:
> > Lone Haranguer wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > > It should be noted that this Christian bashing attitude is
> > > not without consequences. A man was arrested yesterday who
> > > confessed to burning 26 Christian churches in 6 states. Who
> > > implanted this hate?
> >
> > My guess would be the churches themselves.
>
> of the hate. They don't wear white sheets but preach the
> same gospel.
Maybe you will enlighten us on the religous upbringing
of this person then. Was he rasied an atheist? Or was
he raised in some religion, and grew to hate it for some
reason? My guess would be the latter.
> > > Some of the school shootings also targeted Christians.
> >
> > Oh, really? Seems that the Cassie Bernal story was made
> > up. The actual person involved was a different girl, but
> > the story was quite a bit embellished even if you correct
> > the names. I don't think there was any good evidence
> > they targetted Christians in particular.
>
> Proof please.
What proof do _you_ have (other than the Cassie Bernal
myth) that Christions _were_ targetted.
> > > Where did they learn this intolerance?
> >
> > My guess would be from Christians.
>
> Former Christians perhaps. The new KKK with suits.
Ahhhh. So I'm _right_. It is the churches themselves
that engender the hatred. Thank you. Now what do you
make of _that_ fact?
> > > . . . What about the man
> > > in Texas who targeted churchgoers for shooting. What made
> > > him think they deserved shooting?
>
> > My guess would be that church or another one like it.
>
> My guess would be intolerant creeps like Arne.
Nope. See above. You've already answered this question.
You just didn't know that you did. ;-)
> > > Christian bashers are the ones planting the seeds of hate.
> >
> > No. The churches have _always_ been more than adequate
> > in making their own enemies.
>
> Religions fight among themselves frequently. Now the
> anti-religionists are spreading hate against the main
> religions.
Ummm. So we're the new kids on the block, trying to get
up to speed on an old game practised well already by
the religious types, eh? I don't thiiinnnnkkk
soooo. I have disdain for religions. Not hatred. Some
of my better friends over the years have been quite
religious, and we have agreed to respect each other's
differences. Doesn't affect my view of religion,
however. But that is not hatred.
> > And the more obnoxious their proselytising, and the more
> > arrogant they are in their sham piousness, the more
> > people will hate them. Or laugh at them. Depending on
> > how much of a sense of humour such people have.
>
> Your hate is obvious Arne. I think you should be on the
> FBI's hate group list.
Nope. My disdain is obvious. As should be my laughter
at you deluded people believing in your Saviour on a
Stick. . . . If you recognised this folderol as the
fiction that it is, you'd also quickly see that it is
particularly _bad_ fiction. Worse than Grisham. }:^P
FWIW, proselytising is to me merely obnoxious and
insensitive. For those of a different faith and who
take that faith _seriously_ though, and whose faith is
impugned and demeaned in the way that only another
_religion_ can be by a competing and incompatible
religion, such proselytisation might be a much _more_
serious affront, and engender a much more vehement
response. Of this I can attest: While I enjoy good
goslep music for the music it is, a number of my
Jewish friends find it quite offensive, and will
avoid it. . . .
Cheers,
-- Arne Langsetmo
Arne Langsetmo
> nosp...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > In article <396F81B9...@uswest.net>,
> > lin...@uswest.net wrote:
> > >
> > > "advisors") were polled and ruled in favor of the
> > > government.
> > >
> > > I sympathize totally with the members of his group.
> > > Innocent believers should not be demonized just because our
> > > government has chosen to make them examples. They were
> > > victims of both Koresh AND the government. Koresh can be
> > > dismissed as an obsessed religious leader. What excuse do
> > > you make for the government agents? Were they out of
> > > control too? Who will be the next "examples"?
> >
> > nuts have lead their followers to murder and suicide.
> >
> > As for these innocent followers, two juries now have ruled, one finding
> > many of the survivors guilty of manslaughter (a serious charge despite
> > what you say) and another here has found that the Davidians hold full
> > responsibility for the fire. Following the case it was clear no other
> > conclusion could have been reached in this case. The first judgement
> > has been held up by the supreme court, all of its memebers. And despite
> > the GOP desire to make some political gain out of this (likely
> > contributing to the OKC terrorism) even the most biased and corrupt of
> > republicans has not been able to assert a case in favor of the
> > Davidians.
> >
> > The book is closed on this. The Davidians opened fire on the ATF
> > because they were lead by nuts, and they then set their compound on
> > fire.
> >
> You are really dense Bob. The book will NEVER be closed on
> this. MANY people will NEVER trust a government agent of
> any kind again.
>
> Any clear thinking person simply cannot lay all the blame on
> the Davidians and giving this case back to Judge Smith and
> his "advisory" jury is an insult to justice. The first jury
> wanted the government agents tried too and a lot more
> information has leaked out since.
Yep. Like the tapes of the Davidians staring the fires. ;-)
> Your attempt to blame Tim McVeigh on the Republicans is a
> joke. If you had the brains of a gnat you would KNOW that
> he did it to call attention to an injustice. As long as the
> injustice continues it will be festering in some deranged
> person's mind. A deranged person can justify any terrorist
> act in his mind as "getting even" with a corrupt
> government. More injustice just fuels the fire.
_Perceived_ injustices. That this "injustice" exists
only in the hallucinatory heads of numbnuts doesn't
dissuade such from mayhem; the "injustice" is real to
_them_ and that's what counts. Say, Linus, seeing as
you are seeing the same hallucinations, should we be
monitoring _your_ fuel oil purchases? You do a great
apologia for taking things into your own hands here,
and evince quite the attitude that the Davidians
were wronged. . . .
> Just hope there are not many wackos out there.
Well, it seems we can count one right _here_. . . .
Cheers,
-- Arne Langsetmo
Arne Langsetmo
[snip]
> You're a moron. I served the United States well for many years and love
> it dearly. I doubt a single one of the opposition has made near the
> sacrifices for their country that I have.
Ahhhh. That explains it. Linus volunteered for "crash test
dummy" jobs. Or donated his brain to first-year neuroanatomy.
Prematurely. ROLFMAO. . . .
> It's because I love my country that I hate to see it's law violated by
> my own government. It will be a happy day when the criminals at the DOJ
> and White House are gone. I'll be celebrating to excess.
By all appearances, you put the cart before the horse.
Cheers,
-- Arne Langsetmo
Lone Haranguer
Arne Langsetmo wrote: His usual shallow twaddle.
Also that the FBI lied about firing incendiary grenades.
That the Army Delta team had at least 10 members there. (violation of
federal law.)
That several FBI and ATF members told completely different stories from
when they were debriefed.
That the FBI still hasn't found the missing door.
That they still can't explain why they bulldozed the compound in such a
hurry and deliberately destroyed a crime scene.
That Koresh was unarmed when he came to the door. (Some ambush.)
That the ATF had NO plan to deliver a warrant and only planned a dynamic
entry.
That Judge Smith made rulings almost a year before the trial that pretty
much insured no blame could be attached to government actions no matter
how illegal.
> > Your attempt to blame Tim McVeigh on the Republicans is a
> > joke. If you had the brains of a gnat you would KNOW that
> > he did it to call attention to an injustice. As long as the
> > injustice continues it will be festering in some deranged
> > person's mind. A deranged person can justify any terrorist
> > act in his mind as "getting even" with a corrupt
> > government. More injustice just fuels the fire.
>
> _Perceived_ injustices. That this "injustice" exists
> only in the hallucinatory heads of numbnuts doesn't
> dissuade such from mayhem; the "injustice" is real to
> _them_ and that's what counts. Say, Linus, seeing as
> you are seeing the same hallucinations, should we be
> monitoring _your_ fuel oil purchases? You do a great
> apologia for taking things into your own hands here,
> and evince quite the attitude that the Davidians
> were wronged. . . .
I have absolutely no doubt they were. If they weren't at least partly
in the right the government would not have felt it necessary to demonize
them to the extent it did. This administration has fought every person
or group who opposed them in exactly the same manner.
Usually it's been the other side who was telling the truth.
>
Arne & Bob are standard Bubber apologists. Anyone who attacks their
idol is a latent bomber, a traitor, or some other demon label. Just
like Bubber.
> > Just hope there are not many wackos out there.
>
> Well, it seems we can count one right _here_. . . .
More than one. You two are as hysterical as they get.
Arne Langsetmo
>
> "Arne Langsetmo" wrote re the commandments
> > pretty useless and meaningless to most people.
>
> + I'm afraid you'll have to spell that out for me.
No other gods before me, no graven images, no
blasphemy, honour the Sabbath.
> + And,... "most" people?
Yep. Did you think that Judaism is the predominant
world religion?
> + Hmmmmm... What do you mean by "most" people?
> + Do you have a reference here?
Do I _need_ one?
> + Are you aware that there are one billion catholics
> in the world?
Compared to the population of _just_ China and India?
But FWIW, Christianity has pretty much done away with
the Ten Commandments. Hell, just check out the
(admittedly _absolutely_ beautiful) iconography of
the Catholic Church. If you go to a Greek Orthodox
church, you'll see that they are a bit more strict
on this Commandment. So much the loss, although they
also have some nice abstract art and stained glass,
etc.
Cheers,
-- Arne Langsetmo
Zepp, Son of Weasel
wrote:
>
>
Nope. Turns out they were telling the truth, little crackpot. The
"flashes" turned out to be nothing more than debris reflecting
sunlight.
>
>That the Army Delta team had at least 10 members there. (violation of
>federal law.)
Yawn.
>That several FBI and ATF members told completely different stories from
>when they were debriefed.
Were you at this debriefing, or just spouting silly conspiratist
twaddle?
No, wait, I think I already know the answer to that one...
>
>That the FBI still hasn't found the missing door.
Garsh!
>
>That they still can't explain why they bulldozed the compound in such a
>hurry and deliberately destroyed a crime scene.
>
Why WHO bulldozed it, little buddy?
>That Koresh was unarmed when he came to the door. (Some ambush.)
Sillier and sillier.
>That the ATF had NO plan to deliver a warrant and only planned a dynamic
>entry.
Is that why they had a warrrant?
>That Judge Smith made rulings almost a year before the trial that pretty
>much insured no blame could be attached to government actions no matter
>how illegal.
Garsh! You mean the justice system found justice?
Say goodnight, Gracie. Your paranoid twaddle is deader than Koresh.
**********************************************************
mahabarbara
>PBarker wrote:
>>
>> "Arne Langsetmo" wrote re the commandments
>> > . . . , AFAIK. But the first four are
>> > pretty useless and meaningless to most people.
>>
>> + I'm afraid you'll have to spell that out for me.
>
>No other gods before me, no graven images, no
>blasphemy, honour the Sabbath.
>
>> + And,... "most" people?
>
>Yep. Did you think that Judaism is the predominant
>world religion?
>
>> + Hmmmmm... What do you mean by "most" people?
>> + Do you have a reference here?
>
>Do I _need_ one?
>
>> + Are you aware that there are one billion catholics
>> in the world?
>
>Compared to the population of _just_ China and India?
>
>But FWIW, Christianity has pretty much done away with
>the Ten Commandments.
After participating on this thread, I realize you are right.
Ironically, Christians have turned the 10Cs into a kind of icon
to be worshiped rather than a creed to be followed.
> Hell, just check out the
>(admittedly _absolutely_ beautiful) iconography of
>the Catholic Church. If you go to a Greek Orthodox
>church, you'll see that they are a bit more strict
>on this Commandment. So much the loss, although they
>also have some nice abstract art and stained glass,
>etc.
>
>Cheers,
>
> -- Arne Langsetmo
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
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Lone Haranguer
"Zepp, Son of Weasel" wrote:
>
I'm afraid as usual you don't know your subject. We are speaking of the
7 concussion grenades found in the rubble and labeled by the FBI as
"silencers". They were found by accident while the evidence was being
moved.
> >
> >That the Army Delta team had at least 10 members there. (violation of
> >federal law.)
>
> Yawn.
>
No answer eh? ONLY THE PRESIDENT can waive the Posse Comittatus Act.
That means the pres knew they were there.
> >That several FBI and ATF members told completely different stories from
> >when they were debriefed.
>
> Were you at this debriefing, or just spouting silly conspiratist
> twaddle?
Ignorance again. They were confronted in the midst of their recent
testimony that contradicted their earlier SWORN statements. Can't you
read?
>
> No, wait, I think I already know the answer to that one...
>
You can't read.
>
> >That the FBI still hasn't found the missing door.
>
> Garsh!
Pretty hard to lose a 4X7 foot door made of steel. That is unless you
are trying to lose it.
> >
> >That they still can't explain why they bulldozed the compound in such a
> >hurry and deliberately destroyed a crime scene.
> >
> Why WHO bulldozed it, little buddy?
The FBI dolt.
>
> >That Koresh was unarmed when he came to the door. (Some ambush.)
>
> Sillier and sillier.
>
Testified to by SEVERAL ATF agents at the recent trial dummy. Look it
up.
> >That the ATF had NO plan to deliver a warrant and only planned a dynamic
> >entry.
>
> Is that why they had a warrrant?
ATF agents at the recent trial TESTIFIED they had no warrant NOR was
there EVER a plan to deliver a peaceful warrant. Go read it for
yourself.
Only a "dynamic entry" plan was made. That means go in shooting which
is what they did.
>
> >That Judge Smith made rulings almost a year before the trial that pretty
> >much insured no blame could be attached to government actions no matter
> >how illegal.
>
> Garsh! You mean the justice system found justice?
>
Injustice you mean. It was a clearly stacked deck.
> Say goodnight, Gracie. Your paranoid twaddle is deader than Koresh.
Your ignorance of the facts is only rivaled by the neighbor's cat.
LZ
Zepp, Son of Weasel
wrote:
And so tell us, tell us, little crackpot: these "concussion
grenades"--by any chance where they red paper disks about 1/4 inch in
diameter, with little bubbles of black powder in the middle?
>> >
>> >That the Army Delta team had at least 10 members there. (violation of
>> >federal law.)
>>
>> Yawn.
>>
>No answer eh? ONLY THE PRESIDENT can waive the Posse Comittatus Act.
Oh, my. You are slipping off into millitia la-la land, I see.
>
>That means the pres knew they were there.
>
Yawn.
Zepp, Son of Weasel
>"Zepp, Son of Weasel" <ze...@snowcrest.net> wrote:
>
>
>Weeze, ol' Zepp, I've carefully studied your argument, read diligently your
>rebuttals to Mr. Zimmerloon, cogitated a bunch on your positions and given
>much analysis to your views.
>
>Sorry to say, you spelled conspiracist wrong.
>
>In whinus's world, that's clear evidence you can't be right.
Oh, gawd.
Mum's going to be SO disappointed in me...
>
>Sorry.
You don't know the half of it. She toilet trained me with an electric
cattle prod.
la...@rightwingers.net
Weeze, ol' Zepp, I've carefully studied your argument, read diligently your
rebuttals to Mr. Zimmerloon, cogitated a bunch on your positions and given
much analysis to your views.
Sorry to say, you spelled conspiracist wrong.
In whinus's world, that's clear evidence you can't be right.
Sorry.
la...@rightwingers.net
>ONLY THE PRESIDENT can waive the Posse Comittatus Act.
>
>That means the pres knew they were there.
Only a dimwitted fool attempts to use a archaic, obscure, nonsensical "theory"
to extricate his dumb ass out of a discredited argument, zimmerloon
Don't go fishing, whinus.
you'll be threatening a creature with considerably more intellect than
yourself
N9NWO
You may be very old when that happens, but history usually
rights the wrong headiness of our culture.
But face it, they are still dead. For them, none of this matters. And
once Clinton is out of office, it will not matter to you either (both
sides).
: >> > > > I've followed the trial quite a bit. The jury (5 and only
Lone Haranguer
la...@rightwingers.net wrote:
>
> Lone Haranguer <lin...@uswest.net> wrote:
>
> >ONLY THE PRESIDENT can waive the Posse Comittatus Act.
> >
> >That means the pres knew they were there.
>
> Only a dimwitted fool attempts to use a archaic, obscure, nonsensical "theory"
> to extricate his dumb ass out of a discredited argument, zimmerloon
>
> Don't go fishing, whinus.
>
> you'll be threatening a creature with considerably more intellect than
> yourself
Boo hoo. Bubber broke the law again and rosey needs to distract from
the fact.
LZ
Lone Haranguer
N9NWO wrote:
>
> I believe that time will show that the Dravidians were wronged.
> You may be very old when that happens, but history usually
> rights the wrong headiness of our culture.
>
> But face it, they are still dead. For them, none of this matters. And
> once Clinton is out of office, it will not matter to you either (both
> sides).
>
Like the "detention" camps for Japanese-Americans.
LZ
Lone Haranguer
Oh those would have survived the fire really well cloth head.
Concussion grenades. Look them up.
> >> >That the Army Delta team had at least 10 members there. (violation of
> >> >federal law.)
> >>
> >> Yawn.
> >>
> >No answer eh? ONLY THE PRESIDENT can waive the Posse Comittatus Act.
>
> Oh, my. You are slipping off into millitia la-la land, I see.
>
Fact.
> >
> >That means the pres knew they were there.
> >
> Yawn.
Guilty verdict.
Zepp ran out of gas. Hard to believe but true.
mahabarbara
>I believe that time will show that the Dravidians were wronged.
Not unless Sen. Jack Danforth is part of a vast left-wing
conspiracy to falsify evidence, which is extremely unlikely.
It's plain as day that the Davidians were a mind-controlled
cult, that Koresh was one sick puppy who pulled their strings,
and that they killed themselves rather than surrender to law
enforcement.
>You may be very old when that happens, but history usually
>rights the wrong headiness of our culture.
I know it's very difficult to let go of a belief when you want
to believe it, but it's time to take a deep breath and let go.
B.
Ted Holden
wrote:
>> > > > I sympathize totally with the members of his group.
>> > > > Innocent believers should not be demonized just because our
>> > > > government has chosen to make them examples. They were
>> > > > victims of both Koresh AND the government. Koresh can be
>> > > > dismissed as an obsessed religious leader. What excuse do
>> > > > you make for the government agents? Were they out of
>> > > > control too? Who will be the next "examples"?
There appear to be two basic bottom lines here. One is that about
twenty totally innocent kids would be alive today if the government
had simply waited until the next time Koresh went to the 7-11 to nab
him. Their having done anything else is criminal stupidity and
hubris.
Two is that, on anybody's list of ways to die, being burned to death
is always going to be right down at the bottom. The fact that of all
those people, NOBODY ran out the door to get out of a burning building
strongly indicates that they had reason to fear they would be shot by
government agents if they did.
To claim that the government is innocent of wrongdoing in the face of
those two observations is irrational.
Ted Holden
med...@bearfabrique.org
>That the Army Delta team had at least 10 members there. (violation of
>federal law.)
>
>That several FBI and ATF members told completely different stories from
>when they were debriefed.
>
>That the FBI still hasn't found the missing door.
>
>That they still can't explain why they bulldozed the compound in such a
>hurry and deliberately destroyed a crime scene.
>
>That Koresh was unarmed when he came to the door. (Some ambush.)
>
>That the ATF had NO plan to deliver a warrant and only planned a dynamic
>entry.
>
>That Judge Smith made rulings almost a year before the trial that pretty
>much insured no blame could be attached to government actions no matter
>how illegal.
>
webCOMBO - America's Free Internet Access Provider
http://www.webcombo.net
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
wrote:
>On Fri, 21 Jul 2000 19:55:54 -0500, Lone Haranguer <lin...@uswest.net>
>wrote:
>
>>> > > > I sympathize totally with the members of his group.
>>> > > > Innocent believers should not be demonized just because our
>>> > > > government has chosen to make them examples. They were
>>> > > > victims of both Koresh AND the government. Koresh can be
>>> > > > dismissed as an obsessed religious leader. What excuse do
>>> > > > you make for the government agents? Were they out of
>>> > > > control too? Who will be the next "examples"?
>
>
>There appear to be two basic bottom lines here. One is that about
>twenty totally innocent kids would be alive today if the government
>had simply waited until the next time Koresh went to the 7-11 to nab
>him. Their having done anything else is criminal stupidity and
>hubris.
Stupidity and hubris are not crimes. Setting people on fire is.
I was surprised when the Davidians set themselves on fire.
IT is an odd thing.
If you knew that they would do this, then you are a lot smarter than I
am.
I do not think that my lack of insight into the likelihood of Davidian
suicide is not in any way morally equivalent to setting people on fire
on purpose.
Similarly, it is absurd to argue that the govt was "criminal" for its
seemingly reasonable ignorance that people would set themselves on
fire.
>
>Two is that, on anybody's list of ways to die, being burned to death
>is always going to be right down at the bottom. The fact that of all
>those people, NOBODY ran out the door to get out of a burning building
>strongly indicates that they had reason to fear they would be shot by
>government agents if they did.
They set themselves on fire. If they were worried about dying, they
obviously would not have burned themselves up. So your comment about a
fear of being shot is absurd.
And even the Davidians dropped their charge that the govt shot at them
on that day after THEIR OWN expert witness reviewed the evidence.
>
>To claim that the government is innocent of wrongdoing in the face of
>those two observations is irrational.
That is not true. It was not foreseeable that Davidians would set
themselves on fire.
And your fantasy that they did not come out because they feared being
shot, after they set the place on fire, has nothing to do with govt
behavior even were it a rational comment or your part.
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr
mahabarbara
>On Fri, 21 Jul 2000 19:55:54 -0500, Lone Haranguer
<lin...@uswest.net>
>wrote:
>
>>> > > > I sympathize totally with the members of his group.
>>> > > > Innocent believers should not be demonized just
because our
>>> > > > government has chosen to make them examples. They were
>>> > > > victims of both Koresh AND the government. Koresh can
be
>>> > > > dismissed as an obsessed religious leader. What
excuse do
>>> > > > you make for the government agents? Were they out of
>>> > > > control too? Who will be the next "examples"?
>
>
>There appear to be two basic bottom lines here. One is that
about
>twenty totally innocent kids would be alive today if the
government
>had simply waited until the next time Koresh went to the 7-11
to nab
>him. Their having done anything else is criminal stupidity and
>hubris.
The initial raid was Real Stupid; I don't think anyone denies
that. However, Koresh and his people could have surrendered at
any time, and they didn't. They could have walked out the door
and given themselves up to law enforcement at any time, and they
didn't.
>
>Two is that, on anybody's list of ways to die, being burned to
death
>is always going to be right down at the bottom. The fact that
of all
>those people, NOBODY ran out the door to get out of a burning
building
>strongly indicates that they had reason to fear they would be
shot by
>government agents if they did.
These people had chosen to kill themselves. "Reason" had nothing
to do with it.
>To claim that the government is innocent of wrongdoing in the
face of
>those two observations is irrational.
To deny that the Davidians killed THEMSELVES is irrational.
B.
-----------------------------------------------------------
N9NWO
:
: Not unless Sen. Jack Danforth is part of a vast left-wing
: conspiracy to falsify evidence, which is extremely unlikely.
No, it is just that his panel looked at whether the FBI
committed crimes. They did not. It does not look at
whether the FBI tactics were the proper ones for the
situation. Or if they were over reaction.
And remember, it does not matter.
: It's plain as day that the Davidians were a mind-controlled
: cult, that Koresh was one sick puppy who pulled their strings,
: and that they killed themselves rather than surrender to law
: enforcement.
That is what many liberal parents thought back in the '70s.
We had a huge anti cult movement back then. Parents were
kidnapping their adult children, turning them over to deprogrammers.
All because the "kids" joined the Moonies or some other group
to get a sense of order in their messed up, upper class lives (this
was the post hippie period).
Deprogramming ended when the biggest deprogrammer, Ed Patrick,
went too far. One set of Jewish parents had their 30 year old daughter
kidnapped out of a convent (she was becoming a nun) and deprogrammed.
Another set of parents had Ed Patrick deprogram they lesbian daughter
which he did by raping her. That threw cold water on the deprogramming
movement.
: >You may be very old when that happens, but history usually
: >rights the wrong headiness of our culture.
:
: I know it's very difficult to let go of a belief when you want
: to believe it, but it's time to take a deep breath and let go.
Again, it does not matter. They are dead.
All I am saying is that history will show this to be heavy
handed. That it could have been done by better means.
And that the charges were of a "trumped up" nature. Not
something that the FBI should have been dealing with.
In other words, a political operation.
But, again, it does not matter.
N9NWO
: >about twenty totally innocent kids would be alive today if the
: >government had simply waited until the next time Koresh went to the 7-11
: >hubris.
:
: The initial raid was Real Stupid; I don't think anyone denies
: that. However, Koresh and his people could have surrendered at
: any time, and they didn't. They could have walked out the door
: and given themselves up to law enforcement at any time, and they
: didn't.
That is what I am saying. The initial raid was were they were
wronged. And, yes, they should have came out. It was stupid
all around. And a huge waste of the FBI's time. These were
not a bunch of Middle Eastern terrorists, not the IRA, not even
the Red Brigade.
mahabarbara
>: >I believe that time will show that the Dravidians were
wronged.
>:
>: Not unless Sen. Jack Danforth is part of a vast left-wing
>: conspiracy to falsify evidence, which is extremely unlikely.
>
>No, it is just that his panel looked at whether the FBI
>committed crimes. They did not. It does not look at
>whether the FBI tactics were the proper ones for the
>situation. Or if they were over reaction.
>
>And remember, it does not matter.
>
>: It's plain as day that the Davidians were a mind-controlled
>: cult, that Koresh was one sick puppy who pulled their strings,
>: and that they killed themselves rather than surrender to law
>: enforcement.
>
>That is what many liberal parents thought back in the '70s.
>We had a huge anti cult movement back then. Parents were
>kidnapping their adult children, turning them over to
deprogrammers.
>All because the "kids" joined the Moonies or some other group
>to get a sense of order in their messed up, upper class lives
(this
>was the post hippie period).
Three really are such things as mind-controlling cults. Remember
the Jonestown Kool-Aid suicides? There was a cult on the West
Coast a couple of years ago that killed themselves because they
spotted a comet, or something. There's a large quasi-Christian
cult in Africa now that's been found to have been commiting mass
murders. This stuff happens.
As a follower of a minority religion myself, I am sensitive to
the fact that people who are "different" get accused of being in
a cult. But that doesn't mean there are no such things as cults.
Not all cult leaders are mass murderers. There was one guy named
Frederick Lenz who went by the name of "Rama" who made various
claims about being a Zen master (he wasn't) and a Vajrayana
Buddhist master (he wasn't) and managed to get people to give
him obscene amounts of money and also to get women to have sex
with him. It was an obvious scam, but he managed to persuade
lots of people he was some kind of diety, and lots of other
people lost tons of money and felt he had ruined their lives.
I was convinced his cult was going to end in mass suicide also,
but he surprised me by drowning himself a couple of years ago
and leaving the followers alive. So one never knows.
>
>Deprogramming ended when the biggest deprogrammer, Ed Patrick,
>went too far. One set of Jewish parents had their 30 year old
daughter
>kidnapped out of a convent (she was becoming a nun) and
deprogrammed.
>Another set of parents had Ed Patrick deprogram they lesbian
daughter
>which he did by raping her. That threw cold water on the
deprogramming
>movement.
That's fascinating, but it remains that there really are such
things as mind-controlling cults.
>
>: >You may be very old when that happens, but history usually
>: >rights the wrong headiness of our culture.
>:
>: I know it's very difficult to let go of a belief when you want
>: to believe it, but it's time to take a deep breath and let go.
>
>Again, it does not matter. They are dead.
It matters to YOU if you cling to delusional perceptions.
>
>All I am saying is that history will show this to be heavy
>handed. That it could have been done by better means.
Yes, but once the raid had failed and the compound was
surrounded, it was all just a matter of time. I don't know what
else could have been done other than walk away and let Koresh
get away with resisting arrest.
>And that the charges were of a "trumped up" nature. Not
>something that the FBI should have been dealing with.
I don't know that the charges were trumped up, and neither do
you. My understanding is that local law enforcement asked for
federal help.
>
>In other words, a political operation.
No, it wasn't.
>
>But, again, it does not matter.
It matters if you are basing your opinion on a falsehood and
then clinging to that opinion.
B.
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr.
<bobrien...@scholastic.com.invalid> wrote:
>"N9NWO" <21...@gte.net> wrote:
>>: >I believe that time will show that the Dravidians were
>wronged.
>>:
>>: Not unless Sen. Jack Danforth is part of a vast left-wing
>>: conspiracy to falsify evidence, which is extremely unlikely.
>>
>>No, it is just that his panel looked at whether the FBI
>>committed crimes. They did not. It does not look at
>>whether the FBI tactics were the proper ones for the
>>situation. Or if they were over reaction.
>>
>>And remember, it does not matter.
>>
>>: It's plain as day that the Davidians were a mind-controlled
>>: cult, that Koresh was one sick puppy who pulled their strings,
>>: and that they killed themselves rather than surrender to law
>>: enforcement.
>>
>>That is what many liberal parents thought back in the '70s.
>>We had a huge anti cult movement back then. Parents were
>>kidnapping their adult children, turning them over to
>deprogrammers.
>>All because the "kids" joined the Moonies or some other group
>>to get a sense of order in their messed up, upper class lives
>(this
>>was the post hippie period).
>
>Three really are such things as mind-controlling cults. Remember
>the Jonestown Kool-Aid suicides?
Flavor Aide.
Kool Aid was and continues to be a completely wholesome beverage.
There was a cult on the West
>Coast a couple of years ago that killed themselves because they
>spotted a comet, or something. There's a large quasi-Christian
>cult in Africa now that's been found to have been commiting mass
>murders. This stuff happens.
>
>As a follower of a minority religion myself,
Depends on where you are?
I am sensitive to
>the fact that people who are "different" get accused of being in
>a cult. But that doesn't mean there are no such things as cults.
>
>Not all cult leaders are mass murderers. There was one guy named
>Frederick Lenz who went by the name of "Rama" who made various
>claims about being a Zen master (he wasn't) and a Vajrayana
>Buddhist master (he wasn't) and managed to get people to give
>him obscene amounts of money and also to get women to have sex
>with him. It was an obvious scam, but he managed to persuade
>lots of people he was some kind of diety, and lots of other
>people lost tons of money and felt he had ruined their lives.
There was the guy in Oregon. People gave him Rolls Royces. Which I can
understand. When he made a run for it, they found over a 100 of them.
But what was really weird was that he also liked felt tipped pens. He
left behind zillions of them that his followers had given him.
>I was convinced his cult was going to end in mass suicide also,
>but he surprised me by drowning himself a couple of years ago
>and leaving the followers alive. So one never knows.
I guess money and chicks cant by you happiness. Though it sounds like
its worth a try.
>>
>>Deprogramming ended when the biggest deprogrammer, Ed Patrick,
>>went too far. One set of Jewish parents had their 30 year old
>daughter
>>kidnapped out of a convent (she was becoming a nun) and
>deprogrammed.
>>Another set of parents had Ed Patrick deprogram they lesbian
>daughter
>>which he did by raping her. That threw cold water on the
>deprogramming
>>movement.
>
>That's fascinating, but it remains that there really are such
>things as mind-controlling cults.
The Secret Service - they are willing to take a bullet.
Millions go off to war to possibly die.
Christian Science.
People will die for beliefs.
>>
>>: >You may be very old when that happens, but history usually
>>: >rights the wrong headiness of our culture.
>>:
>>: I know it's very difficult to let go of a belief when you want
>>: to believe it, but it's time to take a deep breath and let go.
>>
>>Again, it does not matter. They are dead.
>
>It matters to YOU if you cling to delusional perceptions.
>
>>
>>All I am saying is that history will show this to be heavy
>>handed. That it could have been done by better means.
>
>Yes, but once the raid had failed and the compound was
>surrounded, it was all just a matter of time. I don't know what
>else could have been done other than walk away and let Koresh
>get away with resisting arrest.
>
>>And that the charges were of a "trumped up" nature. Not
>>something that the FBI should have been dealing with.
>
>I don't know that the charges were trumped up, and neither do
>you. My understanding is that local law enforcement asked for
>federal help.
Yes. He felt it was way too big for him. UPS told him that a box for
them broke and it was filled with parts for hand grenades.
>
>>
>>In other words, a political operation.
>
>No, it wasn't.
>
>>
>>But, again, it does not matter.
>
>It matters if you are basing your opinion on a falsehood and
>then clinging to that opinion.
>
>B.
>
George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr
mahabarbara
I stand corrected.
>
>
> There was a cult on the West
>>Coast a couple of years ago that killed themselves because they
>>spotted a comet, or something. There's a large quasi-Christian
>>cult in Africa now that's been found to have been commiting
mass
>>murders. This stuff happens.
>>
>>As a follower of a minority religion myself,
>
>Depends on where you are?
Well, I guess in New York City there's no such thing as a
minority anything.
> I am sensitive to
>>the fact that people who are "different" get accused of being
in
>>a cult. But that doesn't mean there are no such things as
cults.
>>
>>Not all cult leaders are mass murderers. There was one guy
named
>>Frederick Lenz who went by the name of "Rama" who made various
>>claims about being a Zen master (he wasn't) and a Vajrayana
>>Buddhist master (he wasn't) and managed to get people to give
>>him obscene amounts of money and also to get women to have sex
>>with him. It was an obvious scam, but he managed to persuade
>>lots of people he was some kind of diety, and lots of other
>>people lost tons of money and felt he had ruined their lives.
>
>There was the guy in Oregon. People gave him Rolls Royces.
Which I can
>understand. When he made a run for it, they found over a 100 of
them.
>
>But what was really weird was that he also liked felt tipped
pens. He
>left behind zillions of them that his followers had given him.
Yeah, some of these people are relatively harmless.
>>I was convinced his cult was going to end in mass suicide also,
>>but he surprised me by drowning himself a couple of years ago
>>and leaving the followers alive. So one never knows.
>
>I guess money and chicks cant by you happiness. Though it
sounds like
>its worth a try.
LOL! Well, good luck with that!
"Rama's" followers claimed that he had an ability to glow, as in
shedding physical light from his body. This, they said, was
proof that he was en-LIGHT-ened (wink, nod). I have to admit
this sounds like a nice attribute during a power shortage.
However, although he could glow like a lightning bug, he could
not walk on water.
He left behind a multi-million dollar estate, and his will
stipulates that the money be given either to a Buddhist
organization or the Audubon society. I understand some
legitimate Buddhist organizations promptly wrote the probate
judge to recommend the money be given to the Audubon society. I
haven't heard if a decision was ever made.
>>>
>>>Deprogramming ended when the biggest deprogrammer, Ed Patrick,
>>>went too far. One set of Jewish parents had their 30 year old
>>daughter
>>>kidnapped out of a convent (she was becoming a nun) and
>>deprogrammed.
>>>Another set of parents had Ed Patrick deprogram they lesbian
>>daughter
>>>which he did by raping her. That threw cold water on the
>>deprogramming
>>>movement.
>>
>>That's fascinating, but it remains that there really are such
>>things as mind-controlling cults.
>
>The Secret Service - they are willing to take a bullet.
>
>Millions go off to war to possibly die.
>
>Christian Science.
>
>People will die for beliefs.
My amateur psychological analysis of cults is that a cult is a
bunch of people who get together and create an alternate reality
together, usually enabled by a leader with a compelling
personality. After these people have invested their entire lives
and minds in this fantasy, they would rather die than give it up
and go back to the "normal" world. Ultimately that's why Koresh
and his people killed themselves; because if they surrendered,
they'd have to leave their fantasy world and face the real
world, and they couldn't bring themselves to do that.
At the time I wasn't a bit surprised that they killed
themselves. Once the compound had been placed under seige there
was probably no bloodless way to resolve the situation. People
seem to forget that this part of the debacle occurred before
Clinton became President and before Janet Reno became attorney
general.
>>>
>>>: >You may be very old when that happens, but history usually
>>>: >rights the wrong headiness of our culture.
>>>:
>>>: I know it's very difficult to let go of a belief when you
want
>>>: to believe it, but it's time to take a deep breath and let
go.
>>>
>>>Again, it does not matter. They are dead.
>>
>>It matters to YOU if you cling to delusional perceptions.
>>
>>>
>>>All I am saying is that history will show this to be heavy
>>>handed. That it could have been done by better means.
>>
>>Yes, but once the raid had failed and the compound was
>>surrounded, it was all just a matter of time. I don't know what
>>else could have been done other than walk away and let Koresh
>>get away with resisting arrest.
>>
>>>And that the charges were of a "trumped up" nature. Not
>>>something that the FBI should have been dealing with.
>>
>>I don't know that the charges were trumped up, and neither do
>>you. My understanding is that local law enforcement asked for
>>federal help.
>
>Yes. He felt it was way too big for him. UPS told him that a
box for
>them broke and it was filled with parts for hand grenades.
Sounds like a situation that would warrant federal involvement
to me.
>>
>>>
>>>In other words, a political operation.
>>
>>No, it wasn't.
>>
>>>
>>>But, again, it does not matter.
>>
>>It matters if you are basing your opinion on a falsehood and
>>then clinging to that opinion.
>>
>>B.
>>
>George Leroy Tyrebiter, Jr
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------
N9NWO
: >>>went too far. One set of Jewish parents had their 30 year old
: >>daughter kidnapped out of a convent (she was becoming a nun) and
: >>deprogrammed.
: >>>Another set of parents had Ed Patrick deprogram they lesbian
: >>daughter which he did by raping her. That threw cold water on the
: >>deprogramming movement.
: >>
: >>That's fascinating, but it remains that there really are such
: >>things as mind-controlling cults.
: >
: >The Secret Service - they are willing to take a bullet.
: >
: >Millions go off to war to possibly die.
: >
: >Christian Science.
: >
: >People will die for beliefs.
:
: My amateur psychological analysis of cults is that a cult is a
: bunch of people who get together and create an alternate reality
: together, usually enabled by a leader with a compelling
: personality. After these people have invested their entire lives
: and minds in this fantasy, they would rather die than give it up
: and go back to the "normal" world. Ultimately that's why Koresh
: and his people killed themselves; because if they surrendered,
: they'd have to leave their fantasy world and face the real
: world, and they couldn't bring themselves to do that.
One of the things that was pointed out during the '70s anti
cult movement (deprogramming) was the Marines and many
law enforcement agencies meet the same definition that you
give above.
: At the time I wasn't a bit surprised that they killed
: themselves. Once the compound had been placed under seige there
: was probably no bloodless way to resolve the situation. People
: seem to forget that this part of the debacle occurred before
: Clinton became President and before Janet Reno became attorney
: general.
The Danforth commission did not settle that question. They
only looked at if the FBI committed crimes. Sen. Danforth
was on Fox News Sunday this morning and he said that they
deliberately avoided the "judgment questions".
mahabarbara
>: >>>Deprogramming ended when the biggest deprogrammer, Ed
Patrick,
>: >>>went too far. One set of Jewish parents had their 30 year
old
>: >>daughter kidnapped out of a convent (she was becoming a
nun) and
>: >>deprogrammed.
>: >>>Another set of parents had Ed Patrick deprogram they
lesbian
>: >>daughter which he did by raping her. That threw cold water
on the
>: >>deprogramming movement.
>: >>
>: >>That's fascinating, but it remains that there really are
such
>: >>things as mind-controlling cults.
I notice you cut out the stuff about the Jonestown and Heavens
Gates suicides. Are you still saying there are no such things as
cults?
>: >
>: >The Secret Service - they are willing to take a bullet.
>: >
>: >Millions go off to war to possibly die.
>: >
>: >Christian Science.
>: >
>: >People will die for beliefs.
>:
>: My amateur psychological analysis of cults is that a cult is a
>: bunch of people who get together and create an alternate
reality
>: together, usually enabled by a leader with a compelling
>: personality. After these people have invested their entire
lives
>: and minds in this fantasy, they would rather die than give it
up
>: and go back to the "normal" world. Ultimately that's why
Koresh
>: and his people killed themselves; because if they surrendered,
>: they'd have to leave their fantasy world and face the real
>: world, and they couldn't bring themselves to do that.
>
>One of the things that was pointed out during the '70s anti
>cult movement (deprogramming) was the Marines and many
>law enforcement agencies meet the same definition that you
>give above.
Somebody would have said something like that in the 1970s, which
was also the high point of the anti-military movement. That
does't make it true.
Are you still arguing that there are no such things as cults?
Are you sane?
Homo sapiens is a social beast, and we are hardwired to conform
to a social group. Socialization is so deeply ingrained in us
that we do things like face the same way in elevators, for no
apparent reason. So underneath just about ANYTHING humans do is
a compulsion to be approved by a social group. In that sense
there are some connections to cult membership and "esprit de
corps."
Military historians such as John Keenan have long documented
that men under the stress of combat fight for EACH OTHER. They
don't fight for their country, or the corps, or for some
abstract ideology. They fight because they have bonded to the
men around them, and they stay and fight and die so as not to
betray their loyalty to their comrads. This has nothing
whatsoever to do with living in a fantasy.
Cults such as the Heaven's Gate create elaborate alternate
realities that people choose to live in out of some kind of deep
psychological need. And once they have bought into those
alternate realities and invested their self-identities in them,
to have that taken away from them is a kind of "death." This is
why there is a pattern for extreme cults to choose death rather
than allow their delusions to be stripped away.
>: At the time I wasn't a bit surprised that they killed
>: themselves. Once the compound had been placed under seige
there
>: was probably no bloodless way to resolve the situation. People
>: seem to forget that this part of the debacle occurred before
>: Clinton became President and before Janet Reno became attorney
>: general.
>
>The Danforth commission did not settle that question. They
>only looked at if the FBI committed crimes. Sen. Danforth
>was on Fox News Sunday this morning and he said that they
>deliberately avoided the "judgment questions".
I'm not sure what was meant by that, but the findings of the
Danforth commission make it clear that the Davidians killed
themselves.
B.
Christopher Morton
If that wasn't the clumsiest attempt to change the subject in years, I
don't know what was.
There is now NO doubt that incendiary teargas cannisters were fired,
and Danforth says so.
Just Sepp doing the Gleiwicz thing... again.
---
Gun control, the theory that Black people will be
better off when only Mark Fuhrman has a gun.
Check out:
Christopher Morton
<bobrien...@scholastic.com.invalid> wrote:
>"N9NWO" <21...@gte.net> wrote:
>>: >>>Deprogramming ended when the biggest deprogrammer, Ed
>Patrick,
>>: >>>went too far. One set of Jewish parents had their 30 year
>old
>>: >>daughter kidnapped out of a convent (she was becoming a
>nun) and
>>: >>deprogrammed.
>>: >>>Another set of parents had Ed Patrick deprogram they
>lesbian
>>: >>daughter which he did by raping her. That threw cold water
>on the
>>: >>deprogramming movement.
>>: >>
>>: >>That's fascinating, but it remains that there really are
>such
>>: >>things as mind-controlling cults.
>
>I notice you cut out the stuff about the Jonestown and Heavens
>Gates suicides. Are you still saying there are no such things as
>cults?
No one who ever saw Paul Begala defend Clinton could doubt the
existence of cults... only unlike the Branch Davidians or Aum Shin
Rikyo, this one DOES have nuclear weapons.
Neither the Bagwan nor Sun Myung Moon ever had anyone so mindlessly
parrot their virtues, and in explicitly religious verbiage in the
bargain.
If I didn't know better, I'd swear that Matt Groening got the idea for
Waylon Smithers from Paul Begala and his fawning servility toward
Clinton.
"Creepy" just doesn't do it justice.
Arne Langsetmo
[snip]
> : It's plain as day that the Davidians were a mind-controlled
> : cult, that Koresh was one sick puppy who pulled their strings,
> : and that they killed themselves rather than surrender to law
> : enforcement.
>
> That is what many liberal parents thought back in the '70s.
> We had a huge anti cult movement back then. Parents were
> kidnapping their adult children, turning them over to deprogrammers.
> All because the "kids" joined the Moonies or some other group
> to get a sense of order in their messed up, upper class lives (this
> was the post hippie period).
>
> Deprogramming ended when the biggest deprogrammer, Ed Patrick,
> went too far. One set of Jewish parents had their 30 year old daughter
> kidnapped out of a convent (she was becoming a nun) and deprogrammed.
> Another set of parents had Ed Patrick deprogram they lesbian daughter
> which he did by raping her. That threw cold water on the deprogramming
> movement.
If true, this only demonstrates your gullibility, and your
use of extremes as a measure of policy. That Patrick might have
done this says little of whether other deprogramming might
have been reasonable (which I will admit is an open question).
Is it right to blame the procedure for the acts of one
_individual_? Should we also apply that to -- say, for
instance -- political parties?
Cheers,
-- Arne Langsetmo
John LaVoy
Christopher Morton wrote:
>
>
> If that wasn't the clumsiest attempt to change the subject in years, I
> don't know what was.
>
> There is now NO doubt that incendiary teargas cannisters were fired,
> and Danforth says so.
For one thing, they weren't "incendiary tear gas cannistesr" they were tear gas
cannisters that can, iunder certain circumstances, cause fire. In the second place,
Danforth also indicated they were fired 4 hours BEFORE there was a fire, and so they
are quite irrelevant to the outcome.
>
>
Christopher Morton
The poster attempted to change the subject. I showed why.
Christopher Morton
wrote:
>On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 14:26:09 -0400, John LaVoy
><jla...@pobox.upenn.edu> wrote:
>
>>Christopher Morton wrote:
>>
>>> If that wasn't the clumsiest attempt to change the subject in years, I
>>> don't know what was.
>>>
>>> There is now NO doubt that incendiary teargas cannisters were fired,
>>> and Danforth says so.
>>
>>For one thing, they weren't "incendiary tear gas cannistesr" they were tear gas
>>cannisters that can, iunder certain circumstances, cause fire. In the second place,
>>Danforth also indicated they were fired 4 hours BEFORE there was a fire, and so they
>>are quite irrelevant to the outcome.
>
>In addition they were fired at another part of the compound which did
>not ever catch fire.
>
>Chris Morton knows all of this.
I know you made a clumsy attempt to change the subject, Klansman.
Is the neo-Nazi National Alliance still your IDEOLOGICAL SOURCE?
Eagle Eye
Christopher Morton <chr...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 25 Jul 2000 02:18:09 GMT, Volt...@mindspring.com (Volt)
>wrote:
>>On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 14:26:09 -0400, John LaVoy
>><jla...@pobox.upenn.edu> wrote:
>>>Christopher Morton wrote:
>>>> If that wasn't the clumsiest attempt to change the subject in years, I
>>>> don't know what was.
>>>>
>>>> There is now NO doubt that incendiary teargas cannisters were fired,
>>>> and Danforth says so.
>>>For one thing, they weren't "incendiary tear gas cannistesr" they were tear gas
>>>cannisters that can, iunder certain circumstances, cause fire. In the second place,
>>>Danforth also indicated they were fired 4 hours BEFORE there was a fire, and so they
>>>are quite irrelevant to the outcome.
>>In addition they were fired at another part of the compound which did
>>not ever catch fire.
>>
>>Chris Morton knows all of this.
>I know you made a clumsy attempt to change the subject, Klansman.
>
>Is the neo-Nazi National Alliance still your IDEOLOGICAL SOURCE?
Perhaps Kennemur tried to change the subject, but didn't you just
change the subject from Waco to an allegation about the National
Alliance?
Kennemur is a liar and an obnoxious punk. He also shows some signs
of racism, but you need to provide evidence that he posts ideological
material from the National Alliance. I think that's just mindless
namecalling. Why not just criticism him for what he actually says
now? You can obviously run rings around him when you argue seriously,
without all the name calling.
In article <3946C2...@jps.net> Gail Weasel <gai...@jps.net> wrote:
>As far as I know not one Lying Socialist Weasel has lied
"Time Flies like an arrow. Fruit Flies like a banana"
-- Groucho Marx
Michael Ejercito
mahabarbara wrote:
> Are you still arguing that there are no such things as cults?
> Are you sane?
Well, there was one cult known as the National Socialist German
Workers' Party, which brought death to millions.
Michael
Michael Ejercito
la...@rightwingers.net
>On 25 Jul 2000 23:29:59 -0000, Eagle Eye <eagl...@nym.alias.net>
>wrote:
>>Kennemur is a liar and an obnoxious punk.
(read: dang, he's kicking my ass again)
>He also shows some signs
>>of racism, but you need to provide evidence that he posts ideological
>>material from the National Alliance.
Look under RNC platform
> Why not just criticism him for what he actually says
>>now?
Reruns of your asskicking is interesting to you?
>You can obviously run rings around him when you argue seriously,
>>without all the name calling.
That would be the cries of joy as he boots your dumb ass?
>You and Morton are morons in a pod.
Eagle Eye
<la...@rightwingers.net> wrote:
[snippage to get to these jewels]
>(read: dang, he's kicking my ass again)
>Reruns of your asskicking is interesting to you?
>That would be the cries of joy as he boots your dumb ass?
I'll have to take your word for this. I've marked Kennemur's
excuses for posts as read for close to two years now, long before
Lochner came along.
In article <3946C2...@jps.net> Gail Weasel <gai...@jps.net> wrote:
>As far as I know not one Lying Socialist Weasel has lied
"Why was I with her? She reminds me of you. In fact,
she reminds me more of you than you do!"
-- Groucho Marx
Stan Ivester
wrote:
> On 26 Jul 2000 06:16:11 -0000, Eagle Eye <eagl...@nym.alias.net>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <397e5c18....@169.132.11.12>
> > <la...@rightwingers.net> wrote:
> >[snippage to get to these jewels]
> >>(read: dang, he's kicking my ass again)
> >
> >>Reruns of your asskicking is interesting to you?
> >
> >>That would be the cries of joy as he boots your dumb ass?
> >
> >I'll have to take your word for this. I've marked Kennemur's
> >excuses for posts as read for close to two years now, long before
> >Lochner came along.
>
> The marks are on your dumb ass from my applying a well polished Texas
> boot, Chicken Butt.
>
> I love your balanced GOP ticket by the way.
>
> Two wealthy white guys with ties to big oil, who avoided serving in
> Vietnam who want to appear more moderate than their public record
> exposes them to be.
>
> Al Gore thanks you!
Unfortunately, Gore can't really take full advantage of this big-oil
connection of the Repugs because he controls about half a million dollars'
worth of Occidental Oil stock through his father's estate.
The only candidate in this race who's free of oil money and its influence
is Ralph Nader.
--Stan