Physical Appearance
bd...@west.cscwc.pima.edu
at large (IMO). We've got all sorts of people here from different races,
genders, social background, sexual orientation, political views...etc. And
although differences arise, I think we do pretty well.
One thing I haven't been able to discern too much, though, is the attitude
toward physical appearance (maybe because it's not really important in this
medium). I mean, there are references by men and women to other men and women
who are nice-looking, but what about those who aren't? Who are, say, 98-lb.
weaklings, or really grossly overweight, or midgets, or just horrendously ugly?
Or does it make a difference to you?
Is it important? Do you find a discrepancy in the way you treat the beautiful
ones and others? How do you treat the ugly ones? What category do you
consider yourself to fall into?
What about in discussing them when they are not present? Is it alright to
make fun of a person's weight?
Or that huge nose? If you had to describe someone who was very unattractive,
how would you do it?
I don't mean these questions strictly in a romantic sense...although I can see
where for some (for me, for example) that tends to be the only sense where
looks make a difference.
I'll post my own responses tomorrow; I'm too tired now.
--
Brent Dunn "How can I say I love you
bd...@west.cscwc.pima.edu So you know that it's true?
or en...@cleveland.freenet.edu I'd give you the world, and what's more,
(He likes Orange Juice Commerials) I'd make you breakfast, too...."
Eric Scheidler
>One thing I haven't been able to discern too much, though, is the attitude
>toward physical appearance (maybe because it's not really important in this
>medium). I mean, there are references by men and women to other men and women
>who are nice-looking, but what about those who aren't? Who are, say, 98-lb.
>weaklings, or really grossly overweight, or midgets, or just
>horrendously ugly? Or does it make a difference to you?
Well, you know, I've learned that nobody is really ugly at all,
once you get to know them. The New Orleans Tingle showed me the truth of
that all over again. There were several people who looked less
attractive that I'd imagined -- at first view. After being with them a
couple of days and integrating their net.personalities with their
real-life selves, they began to look much better -- even much as I'd
imagined them, it turns out. I think sometimes it takes a while to know
what to look for, to "see" the person in the face.
There were a couple of folx who I thought were really geeky or goofy
looking when I first met them who I think now are actually quite
attractive, and I can't imagine how I ever thought otherwise.
>Is it important? Do you find a discrepancy in the way you treat the beautiful
>ones and others? How do you treat the ugly ones? What category do you
>consider yourself to fall into?
I think I probably looked better with my old haircut. But I don't care,
since I'm already married and my kids and wife are cute. I can look as
ugly as I want now, which is a real relief.
--
::: Eric Scheidler ::: uesc...@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ::: Down to 1 cup a day :::
Confusion Incarnate
>Well, you know, I've learned that nobody is really ugly at all,
>once you get to know them. The New Orleans Tingle showed me the truth of
>that all over again. There were several people who looked less
>attractive that I'd imagined -- at first view. After being with them a
>couple of days and integrating their net.personalities with their
>real-life selves, they began to look much better -- even much as I'd
>imagined them, it turns out. I think sometimes it takes a while to know
>what to look for, to "see" the person in the face.
I agree completely. Everyone who saw what Alex really looks like should see
the truth of this point. And Erich surprised me a lot. And even B. Erin
wasn't quite what I'd expected her to look like (not that what she looked
like mattered by that point).
[snip]
>
>I think I probably looked better with my old haircut. But I don't care,
>since I'm already married and my kids and wife are cute. I can look as
>ugly as I want now, which is a real relief.
IMHO, you look better without the goatee. But I know I'm in the minority
here. And your kids are cute, your wife is a total babe. Know the
difference.
.atlemar I showed this card to Kiwi before mailing it.
james v. geluso He agreed with me, feeling like he wanted to be
st...@jetson.uh.edu in a glass house on the southern tip of New Zealand's
houston.grand South Island, with nothing in between himself and
rapids.washington Antarctica.
bd...@west.cscwc.pima.edu
Well, I think it's only fair to answer the questions I ask others...so here's
my own reply.
> One thing I haven't been able to discern too much, though, is the attitude
> toward physical appearance (maybe because it's not really important in this
> medium). I mean, there are references by men and women to other men and women
> who are nice-looking, but what about those who aren't? Who are, say, 98-lb.
> weaklings, or really grossly overweight, or midgets, or just horrendously ugly?
> Or does it make a difference to you?
>
> Is it important? Do you find a discrepancy in the way you treat the beautiful
> ones and others? How do you treat the ugly ones? What category do you
> consider yourself to fall into?
I'm sure the difference affects me in all sorts of areas, but the only one I'm
really aware of is with regard to dating, romance, etc. I'm not arrogant
enough to try to claim that looks don't make a difference, but there are also a
lot of other variables involved, and looks really only come into play after
those have been exhausted.
And as for what category I'm in...I hadn't really thought about it when I asked
the question. I don't know. Neither, I suppose -- I don't consider myself
handsome or nasty, just...me.
>
> What about in discussing them when they are not present? Is it alright to
> make fun of a person's weight?
> Or that huge nose? If you had to describe someone who was very unattractive,
> how would you do it?
I really do try to be positive about appearance at least...if anything I'll
criticize behavior.
Looking at that last set of questions again, the weight thing sticks out a
bit...having asked the question, I don't really expect anyone to say that it's
fine to make fun of a person's weight (whether too fat or too skinny). But it
obviously happens more than we would say it's acceptable. Why the discrepancy?
---Brent
Terra Goodnight
@> What about in discussing them when they are not present? Is it alright to
@> make fun of a person's weight?
@Looking at that last set of questions again, the weight thing sticks out a
@bit...having asked the question, I don't really expect anyone to say that it's
@fine to make fun of a person's weight (whether too fat or too skinny). But it
@obviously happens more than we would say it's acceptable. Why the discrepancy?
Well, the discrepancy is because you can, seemingly, have some control over your
weight, while other physical characteristics are a curse/blessing of birth. I mean, that's
the mentality anyway.
I think a lot of people look at the obese and think there's something they could do about it.
I don't know, I go through phases. Sometimes you hear on the news they *can* do something
about it, then you hear it's all genetic. I put a lot of effort into staying thin, it's not just something
that happens (after age 22 or so anyway), so if I have a little less respect for someone who doesn't take
care of themselves, I guess I feel justified. Doesn't mean I am...
-terra
Terra Goodnight
te...@primenet.com http://www.primenet.com/~terra
New Years Home Page: http://www.primenet.com/~terra/tingle.html
STEPHEN ELLIOTT LENZ
a romantic message addressed to "the girl with the
smile"> This was touching, but then he signed it
"Bald Guy with a Goatee" . I'm sorry, Brent, if you
yourself are hairless but for a pointy beard, no offense, but
with all due respect, how attractive does this guy think he sounds? I do
think a guy is far more attractive if he knows how to use both his brain
and wit. His looks, in this case will be a reflection of his personality.
bd...@west.cscwc.pima.edu wrote:
: Ok, this is a fairly tolerant group, in relation to many others, and to society
Paul Johnson
>bd...@west.cscwc.pima.edu wrote:
>
>@> What about in discussing them when they are not present? Is it alright to
>@> make fun of a person's weight?
>
>@Looking at that last set of questions again, the weight thing sticks out a
>@bit...having asked the question, I don't really expect anyone to say that it's
>@fine to make fun of a person's weight (whether too fat or too skinny). But it
>@obviously happens more than we would say it's acceptable. Why the discrepancy?
>
>Well, the discrepancy is because you can, seemingly, have some control over your
>weight, while other physical characteristics are a curse/blessing of birth. I mean, that's
>the mentality anyway.
>
>I think a lot of people look at the obese and think there's something they could do about it.
>I don't know, I go through phases. Sometimes you hear on the news they *can* do something
>about it, then you hear it's all genetic.
For the majority of people its a seditary lifestyle along with poor eating
habits that contribute to being overweight. Both of these people have control
over. (yes, some less than others for whatever reasons but all to an extent).
Now are some people just naturally large or thin...yep, its part of the diverity of
life.
Now what I can't stand is people who talk about loosing weight and never put
any effort into it or make token gestures.(The classic is multiple Le Royals with
Cheese (points????) and a 'DIET' Cola)
I put a lot of effort into staying thin, it's not just something
>that happens (after age 22 or so anyway), so if I have a little less respect for someone who doesn't take
>care of themselves, I guess I feel justified. Doesn't mean I am...
>
> -terra
As an aside I should mention that through the wonders of genetics I am quite
thin and probably will be for my whole life, if my parents and grandparents
are any indication. Now, I have not let this lull me into a false sense of security
so I still exercise, stay physically active, and watch what I eat.
Paul Johnson (unlisted 98lb weekling)
solo in the office in Charlotte NC
Stephen Perelgut
: ... But I don't care,
: since I'm already married and my kids and wife are cute. I can look as
: ugly as I want now, which is a real relief.
That's it exactly! No I wonder what Claudia is going to say when I explain
this to her tonight :-)
--
Stephen Perelgut pere...@vnet.ibm.com ** NOTE ** These are my views
(pere...@csri.toronto.edu ) [Will steal ideas for laughs.]
david s. broudy
(Paul Johnson) wrote:
< Now what I can't stand is people who talk about loosing weight and never put
< any effort into it or make token gestures.(The classic is multiple Le
Royals with
< Cheese (points????) and a 'DIET' Cola)
Ah, yes, the McD's in Louisiana with their Double Les Royals avec fromage
(DOUBLE! UGH!) and Double Les Big Macs (with *four* patties) I'm sure
contribute much to the excess tonnage we saw while on the road in that
state. I'd never seen such things here. Add in the super backhoe-sized
scoop of pommes frites and a gallon of sugary coke, and it's a heart
attack in a bag.
Part of the problem is that as a nation we're conditioned to eat heavily
processed, high-fat, high-sodium, high-sugar foods since birth; another is
the sedentary lifestyle that is so prevalent in this country; yet another
problem is people are conditioned through TV to buy ready-made foods, and
rare is the person who will actually cook a meal from scratch with healthy
ingredients.
I love junk food as much as anyone, but since returning from NO have been
on a very low-fat, high-carbo diet with lots of grains, bread, rice,
pasta, etc. I haven't lost any weight I think (had to put the scale into
the closet to make room for the new catbox) but I sure feel better. I
pretty much felt blah in NO and I blame the food (certainly not the
company). All the greasy road food on the TingleTrip didn't help, but I
doubt too many places in that part of the country offer vegetarian sushi
and 10-grain cereal.
I do think some people are gentically predisposed or medically prone to be
overweight. I was hypothyroid as a kid and was sluggish as hell and chubby
until I went on medication. Even though the condition has disappeared,
it's still super-easy for me to put on weight unless I'm *very* careful. I
have the metabolism of a slug--and yes I know people who eat like Homer
Simpson, don't exercise, smoke, and still are quite lean (but not terribly
healthy).It's just not fair.
--
bro...@mizar.usc.edu -- http://wpc-4.usc.edu/ /=/
Will that be one lump, or two? \=\ /=/
Elizabeth Walkup
First let me state that this is not directed at Terra personally.
She does an excellent job here of briefly stating what I think is
a very common attitude among folks who've never had to really fight
with their weight.
In article <3fgnn8$8...@news.primenet.com>,
Terra Goodnight <te...@primenet.com> wrote:
>Well, the discrepancy is because you can, seemingly, have some control
>over your weight, while other physical characteristics are a curse/blessing
>of birth. I mean, that's the mentality anyway.
>
>I think a lot of people look at the obese and think there's something
>they could do about it. I don't know, I go through phases. Sometimes
>you hear on the news they *can* do something about it, then you hear
>it's all genetic. I put a lot of effort into staying thin, it's not
>just something that happens (after age 22 or so anyway), so if I have
>a little less respect for someone who doesn't take
>care of themselves, I guess I feel justified. Doesn't mean I am...
>
> -terra
I weigh 165 pounds and am just under 5'5". The recommended weight for
my height and frame is about 135-140. The standard definition of obesity
is 20% over recommended weight. I'm just at that line.
Not too long ago, I weighed 135.
At 135 I was medically lean but socially still not "thin". Finding a pair
of jeans which were flattering, involved a *lot* of hunting. I had a
boyfriend who was well liked and regarded as a reasonably with-it guy
tell me "Your face would look pretty good on a petite body."
A few years before I'd had a boyfriend tell me as we were breaking up that
I was fat. I wasn't. I was already thinner than I should have been.
I stopped eating. I got down to 125 pounds on a bagel and
a couple of glasses of juice a day. Everyone told me how great I looked,
but I was sick. I worked in some vegetables and non-fat milk products,
but would still eat no fat. My hair got flat. My skin was dry and
scaley.
When I wised up and started eating well, even though I was restricting
my intake, I felt better, but as had been the case for as long as I
can remember, I WAS F*$^ING COLD ALL THE TIME and I ALMOST NEVER FELT
SATIATED after a decent meal.
I've never eaten much processed food. These days I eat skinless chicken
or meat in soups that have been skimmed once or twice a week. Milk products
are a treat only. I eat my vegetables. I eat a bit too much bread.
I exercise three to five times a week.
Last winter, my body decided to gain weight. I was exercising and eating
well, but I gained weight because that's the way my body wanted it. I
had to hide the cooking oil because I'd see it out on the counter and
have an urge to swig from the bottle. It was all I could do to gain
weight by eating healthily rather than on the junk food I suddenly craved.
I'm fat now. People don't treat me as well. I get carded now. I didn't
before. Most young white men treat me as sexless. However, I can now
keep my thermostat in the mid-sixties and not freeze. My fingernails
are rarely blue. My blood sugar is more stable.
Unfortunately, I'm now heavy enough that my joints complain when I do
aerobics. BUT, if I had not been starving myself since high school, those
joints probably would have grown strong enough to support my weight.
You're right. I do have some control over my weight. I could starve
myself again and be cold, tired, and grumpy. But I won't. I refuse to
do so. Right now I'm hoping that if I eat well and continue exercising
that my body will realize that it overdid it a bit and let me slide
down to 150, but there are no guarantees. I've seen the 100-year old
family photos, and genetically speaking, it doesn't look promising.
Luckily I now have a boyfriend who either doesn't find the extra weight
a turn-off, or is smart enough to keep his mouth shut, but who is gently
encouraging when I make efforts to exercise a little more or eat a little
better.
Within the last year, one of the women's magazines I sometimes read did
a little experiment where they sent out an obese woman with a sterling
resume and a thin woman with a mediocre resume to the same employment
agency. Guess which one was told "I don't think we'll be able to find
you anything," and which one was told "Your resume needs a little work.
Why don't you come in tomorrow at ten and we'll re-do it."
We've got a long way to go on this issue. I know I have prejudices about
fat folks which just aren't right. I'm working on it. At the moment
I'm at the "anyone who eats well and gets some exercise is ok" stage.
I'm working on "anyone who's content where they are is ok." It's going
to be a while before "everyone is ok" happens for me.
In closing, here's an anecdote from my high school days. I was in the
grocery store one Saturday buying bulk Swedish fish on the way to a friend's
house, when a tiny little old lady approached me. She looked to be about
ninety and had a great smile. She patted me on my thigh and gave it
a good squeeze to check the muscle tone. She then beamed at me and
said something in what sounded like Polish. I don't speak Polish, but
the meaning was clear -- "Ah what a lovely strong girl. If only my
foolish grand-son would marry such a girl, we could do with one less
horse on the farm." I was mortified, but gawds, I wish I lived in a
society where I could have accepted that compliment gracefully.
-- Elizabeth
wal...@cs.washington.edu
Chris Lehmann
: > Now what I can't stand is people who talk about loosing weight and never put
: > any effort into it or make token gestures.(The classic is multiple Le Royals with
: > Cheese (points????) and a 'DIET' Cola)
: Now *this* I find amusing as well. I've seen people order
: massive quantities of food and then follow it with a Diet
: Coke...as if the D.C. will somehow magically cancel the
: calories.
waitasec... I like Diet Coke...
and as someone who always is fighting with the last five or ten pounds
that I want to lose, I actually drink a lot of water as my diet drink...
clears the system and tastes pretty good too...
Chris "Just for the taste of it..." Lehmann
Jennifer Basil
: I feel a rant coming on.
I'm with ya, sister!
: I've never eaten much processed food. These days I eat skinless chicken
: or meat in soups that have been skimmed once or twice a week. Milk products
: are a treat only. I eat my vegetables. I eat a bit too much bread.
: I exercise three to five times a week.
: Last winter, my body decided to gain weight. I was exercising and eating
At the risk of repeating myself (I've told my tales of weight here
before), this happened to me too. I'd eat the same food, and I
put on 70 pounds. *shrug* I don't need a study to tell me that
genetics or physiology are involved, I know way too many people
who just *can't* put on weight and those who *can't* take it
off to think otherwise.
And I lost it, but it took a serious illness! Not the route I'd
recommend. Plus, women my size now (medium to medium
small when stressed) can eat about twice as much as I can eat, because
I've been heavier before. My set point is completely different from
other women my size. Even when I was heavier, I really didn't eat
that much more than other people, and I was anything but
sedentary (snowshoeing 10-15 miles a day with a 50 pound
backpack? Hardly the stereotypical image of a couch potato). So,
now I'm a heavy person in a small body. But I don't kid myself. Inside,
I'm physiologically heavy, and I'll have to fight it my whole life
while other women my size don't. Thems just the facts, ma'am.
: You're right. I do have some control over my weight. I could starve
: myself again and be cold, tired, and grumpy. But I won't. I refuse to
: do so. Right now I'm hoping that if I eat well and continue exercising
: that my body will realize that it overdid it a bit and let me slide
: down to 150, but there are no guarantees.
You be healthy, Elizabeth. That's what honestly matters. Your body is
telling you what you should weigh to be healthy. Not everyone is
Kate Moss and thank the great green goddess for that! As my moose
friend David says "Women look GO'jus with stuff!"
An anecdote: I was at a gathering awhile back, and I was amongst
a large number of waifwomen..petite, girlish. Then there was me,
decidedly female jenny. I felt bad, despite my looking just fine...
until this little girl, who had been roaming the party parked herself
next to me and then cuddled me and crawled into my lap.
"Mmmmmmmm" She said. "You're *comfy*, Jenny! No one else is comfy here."
and then promptly fell asleep, the little angel.
Be healthy and rosy cheeked and comfy. That's best.
Jenny
--
Jennifer Basil (ba...@bio.bu.edu) Has angst, will travel.
"Gas smells awful;
nooses give;
guns aren't lawful;
You might as well live."
....Dorothy Parker
Wendi Dunlap
(Elizabeth Walkup) wrote:
> I'm fat now.
Are you kidding? You, fat? If you're fat, then I'm obese. And I certainly
don't think I am, though I could stand to lose a bit.
You are not fat.
--
Wendi Dunlap * Slumberland, Seattle WA (206) 547-2629
litl...@slumberland.com * litl...@seanet.com
terra
: Yep. And I somehow doubt that it's purely coincidental that scrapple and
: cheesesteaks are local favorites here in the statistically most obese city
: in America.
Wait? You moved to Portland!?
you'll have to forgive me, my life experiences are limited, and I have
never been to the midwest, but I think Portland Oregon is the
closest I ever want to come to a place where *everyone* eats
SHIT and *no one* exercises one whit. I guess they think the
rain is an excuse to sit on their asses watching sitcoms...
They have drive-thru mothafucking ESPRESSO stands. (yes, they *are*
trying to be Seattle and failing miserably. The only thing they've
gotten right is the rain) Even *L.A.* doesn't have drive-thru espresso
stands, though I will grant that my fellow Angelenos are lazy (nay,
"hurried") enough to park in the gimp spot to minimize their walking
efforts.
(gee, maybe this is why I have a teensy bit of animosity towards obese
people. sometimes it's like they're not even trying...These girls in
college would take the friggin elevator down ONE flight of stairs --yes,
down!--Come to think of it, there's a secretary in my building, who
routinely stops the elevator at the second floor to hop on and ride down
to the first. ARGH) Granted, Portland and LA are both cities without
mass transit, so laziness is encouraged, but at least in L.A. there seems
to be *some* consciousness about what one eats. There isn't a steakhouse
on every corner, so that in itself is a plus for good health.
And to ramble on further about my limited world-view, I was in Europe
once, and met this German guy, Nikolai, who was telling me how he's never
seen as many fat people as in America. He told me that fast foot and
hours upon hours of TV-watching are much less common there (perhaps just
due to inavailability...their TV sucks as do their selection of
drive-thru burger joints), which may play a big part in it. Can you
imagine if there wasn't anything on TV, *gasp* people might actually *DO*
something calorie-consuming. Although, we might start playing soccer,
and worshipping David Hasselhoff, which would be really creepy :)
-terra, *that* much closer to shoving it in the closet (or
selling it to Qath)
--
,//:, ,/ Terra Goodnight
o:::::::;;/// http://www.primenet.com/~terra/
>::::::::;;\\\
'''\\\' \ ASGX Home Page: http://www.primenet.com/~terra/asgx.html
B. Erin Cole
Carl Beaudry <bea...@cc.swarthmore.edu> wrote:
>Jennifer Wise wrote:
>
>> Now *this* I find amusing as well. I've seen people order
>> massive quantities of food and then follow it with a Diet
>> Coke...as if the D.C. will somehow magically cancel the
>> calories.
>
>number reasons ranging from taste (true fact) to not liking the way sugar
>and corn syrup feel on our teeth. Which is just awful.
Then again, there are those of us who have horrible reactions to
aspartame (NutraSweet). Every time I ingest it, which is not often, I get
blinding headaches. Besides that, it tastes awful.
I used to have a boss who refused to buy anything but diet soft drinks
for the company fridge. Her rationale was that everyone on staff needed
to lose weight. I pointed out that not everyone is able to drink them,
but she wouldn't beleive me. Grr.
Cheerily,
B. Erin Cole
b-list mascot, flake
steven r kleinedler
>
>and as someone who always is fighting with the last five or ten pounds
>that I want to lose, I actually drink a lot of water as my diet drink...
>clears the system and tastes pretty good too...
Like you need to lose weight.
--
Steve Kleinedler, GenX-icographer (and his stuffed meese, Kozmo & Jiri)
what's left: "spa" thru "tyrant"
steven r kleinedler
>
>Interesting. One of the other regular posters and I recently exchanged
>email on this very subject. He'd just met another Gimp in person - in this
>case someone with cerebral palsy - and it made him wonder if he would have
>gotten to know me as well as he does on the net if our first meeting had
>been non-Virtual, or if he would have shied away from me because of my
>disability. (For the record, I have no trouble communicating verbally - I'm
>quite a loudmouth, in fact.)
For the record, that was me. I also brought up the point that had Peter
and I met not here but, say, in some social setting, we probably wouldn't
have met, as we have both pointed out, because at first blush we aren't
each others' "type". Having spoken with him on the net for 7 months
before I met him, however, he became known to me thru his words,
and so type becomes irrelevant. (I was kind of thrown at the airport
because he said he looked like the kid from ET grown up, and since he
lived in Boston, I expected him to have octagonal glasses and be 5'8".)
--
Steve Kleinedler, GenX-icographer (and his stuffed meese, Kozmo & Jiri)
what's left: "stab" thru "tyrant"
steven r kleinedler
>In article <1995Jan21....@midway.uchicago.edu> srkl...@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>
>>
>>But you know when I put on the weight -- When I stopped going out
>>dancing 4 times a week (4-6 hours a night). Now i'm lucky if i go
>>dancing once a month. That's what's done me in. Bleh.
>
> Okay Steve..that's it. we're going dancing again, sometime
>soon.... it's for your health's sake, after all...
That's what I like about UC people posting - I got this immediately
instead of 4 day drag.
Are you sure you want to go dancing with me, given my track record? :)
Sid Horton
>>>
>>>
>>>But you know when I put on the weight -- When I stopped going out
>>>dancing 4 times a week (4-6 hours a night). Now i'm lucky if i go
>>>dancing once a month. That's what's done me in. Bleh.
>>
>> Okay Steve..that's it. we're going dancing again, sometime
>>soon.... it's for your health's sake, after all...
>
>That's what I like about UC people posting - I got this immediately
>instead of 4 day drag.
>
>Are you sure you want to go dancing with me, given my track record? :)
>
And which track record might that be??
sid horton
--who hadn't noticed the delay in posts until Steve
pointed it out
steven r kleinedler
>>Are you sure you want to go dancing with me, given my track record? :)
>>
>
> And which track record might that be??
Track record, criminal record...
Eric Scheidler
Damn it.
I said earlier that on my way home today I would go to the P.E. complex
at the University and pay my fee for use. Which I did: $50 for the next
six months, and the jogging track is available virutally all the time.
Now I'm trying to get a hold of some running shorts so I can go and use
the track tonight after Voyager.
Ha! Apparently nobody in Chicago has ever heard of such a thing as a
pair of running shorts. I started with the neighborhood phone book, and
quickly advanced to the citywide yellow pages. Apparently "sporting
goods" can mean almost anything. Most of the places were golf, uniform
or fan-wear shops.
The one or two people I talked to who could speak passable English had
no idea what I was talking about. Or they lied. "Sure we've got running
shorts, come on in." Further inquiry revealed that what they actually
had was all-purpose athletic shorts, which aren't the same thing.
Ask my balls, they know.
So I'm combing through the yellow pages, widening my search every few
phone calls. Nothing.
Now, I know one place where I can get running shorts for certain:
Sportmart. I don't have anything in particular against Sportmart, except
maybe lousy service (you know, the kind where you ask about a product and
they pick up and read the print on the box to you), but I prefer to shop
at smaller, local businesses if I can. If I can find a smaller place
with good service I'll gladly pay a few extra bucks.
But I guess they don't want my business. I guess they don't mind if I
give up and go to the massive chainstore. I mean, some of these people
wouldn't even go and look for me to see if they really did have what I
wanted in my size. What the hell are they doing in the yellow pages
then? What about "phone first"?
Nuts.
Ah well, no excuses. If I hafta I'll wear my cycling shorts instead,
though they're not nearly as comfortable. What can I do?
-- Eric, frustrated shopper. Sorry, hadda blow off some steam.
amanda wilson
>I didn't call Amanda a gay-bashing meanie for knocking thin people (and
>our lifestyle choices)...
just to illustrate a point:
i didn't knock the lifestyle choices of thin people. i used a
perjorative term in reference to thin people and i did it to make a
point: that everybody faces prejudices.
for the record, i don't hate thin people. and i hope they don't hate me.
if they do, we both have something to deal with. we all have *something*
to deal with. best deal with it and get on.
-- amanda (:P. nyaa.)
Jason Kodish
>
>
>Hello-
>I have been lurking for a while and this thread finally drew me to post.
>I think there are many things to be said about physical appearance and
>
Hi. Guess someone should pull out the Welcome Wagon. Usually Steve's or
Peter's job, but hey. I think it's about time I did it for once.
Welcome to the fold.
Shall we have a "Welcome Jeanetta" fish slapping dance?
>Jeanetta
>
--
____________________________________________________________________________
Jason Kodish, | R - 1/2 g R =T
University of Alberta | un un un
Department of Gravitational Engineering |(Einstein Field Equation)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_____..---======~~^~~=======---.._____
______________________ __,-='=====____ ================ _____=====`=
(._____________________I__) - _-=_/ `--------=+=-------'
/ /__...---===='---+---_'
Jason Kodish
>
>jean (jlm...@uclink3.berkeley.edu) wrote:
>: not to mention that I drink about 2 liters a day,
>: which would be something like a kazillion calories.
>
>i have heard this before. one word: water. it's what we're _supposed_
>drink. my mother, may the chemicals never take her brain, drinks diet
>nastiness more than anyone i know and says that she doesn't like the
>taste of water. hmmm. may all of the colas and the millions and billions
>that we pay them daily die a quick death.
> -bill(RandomPostMan drinks 8-10 glasses
> of water a day. just ask me about milk...)
Of course, there are all the chemicals they put in our water, and the
fact that oftentimes water is drawn from lakes even the fish stay away from.
( A glass of Lake Michigan?)
Marco Anglesio
while, but it seems like time to throw in my 0.02$ worth.
Firstly, myself. I'm a university student, 6-1, 200lbs, 8% body fat, dark
blond and blue - although I would hardly call myself a nordic god. I
wrestle varsity at 90 kg for my school, so I'm in pretty good shape -
really good shape, from running about 40 flights of stairs a day, after
practise. It's an interesting sport, and I like it - I just started this
year. And it's this new experience that has lead me to comment.
You see, I used to play football. Varsity Football, for the Queen's Golden
Gaels. My first year on the team we won the national championship. That's
not the point - the point is that there was more fat on one player from my
unit as on the entire wrestling squad. I played (obviously) offensive
line, at 240 lbs - and I, the smallest guy on the unit. And I learned
something - it doesn't matter. Not at all. All those big guys were
_faster_ (not to mention hugely stronger) than me when I arrived ...
well, nearly all. I got used to it pretty damn fast, and it's led me to
change my beliefs about fat.
I used to think of those big, 280-300 lb guys as fat, stupid slugs. Well,
most of the people in my high school league conformed to that image. Now,
at Queen's (arguably the most academically demanding school in Canada),
the big guys were carrying a lot of fat, but they were also running 4.9
40's and getting averages of ~90% in engineering programs (where the
overall average for a given year is around 58). I was impressed - what's
more, I started to try to open my eyes and look around. Confront reality.
Reality was there staring me in the face.
I was shallow, I admit. It's not an admission easily made. And now, I'm a
thin wrestler (as much as 200lbs can be thin) - but I don't think that
there's any question that I'm somehow more virtuous (probably the best
word for it) than my former teammates, because I've cut weight. They're
still my friends - or maybe brothers it a better term. And they're still
fat. Big deal.
My taste in "female company" has probably changed as a result of this.
During first year I dated a woman from my floor who was, while not quite
waif-like, was quite slender, and quite beautiful. Blue eyes, auburn hair,
5-2, and an abbreviated(?) hourglass figure. We broke up during the first
week of second year - I found out later that she had moved on without
telling me. I was devastated. I despaired about ever being able to find
such a woman again. She was yet another example of my "type".
Later, that month, I met the woman that I will probably marry - if she
lets me, that is. She's 5-8, and she's most emphatically not thin. She's
beautiful. I could go on, and on, and on, about how beautiful she is, and
how much I love her, but you'd get nauseous. We celebrated 16 months
together on Saturday, and I love her more than the giddy day that I said
so for the first time.
Thin-ness doesn't matter anymore. Not to me, at least. Tracy takes care of
her body - so do I, for that matter :) - and there's little she can do
about the fact that she's chunky. I like her that way. I like her because
she's herself, and not because she can't amass the willpower to lose
weight for some reason - she was made the way she is. I don't even want
her to try ... I want her to stay happy, and keep her smile and the
sparkle of her eyes - and to keep her smiling at me, too.
marco
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Marco Anglesio, Materials and Metallurgical Engineering, Queen's U |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| <3m...@jeff-lab.queensu.ca> | Caught between the bright lights/ and |
| <3m...@qlink.queensu.ca> | the far unlit unknown/ nowhere is the |
| <angl...@unixg.ubc.ca> | dreamer/ or the misfit so alone |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul Johnson
>
>Hello-
>I have been lurking for a while and this thread finally drew me to post.
Hey Amanda bring the welcome wagon around will ya'!!! Until them...
Hi Jeanetta, come in and have the beverage of your choice....here's a small
list:
Beer (wide selection here...)
Tea
Sweet tea
Lemonade
Wine
Diet Coke (*ick*)
Real Coke
Water
And I'm sure there's more.....
[good post snipped]
>school and consistently weighed 125-130, and currently am pretty
>sedentary at my currently weight, though realizing that for health
>reasons I should become more physically active.
>Now I am at the point where I have decided to accept myself as an
>attractive person who was not meant to be thin and uncurvy.
I'd like to add my $0.02 to this last comment. (And this isn't directed at
anyone just my thoughts on the subject)
While it is important for everyone to accept who they are (very important
actually) it is also important for people to be healthy. Now you can be
healthy and not be a coatrack and be a coakrack and not be healthy. But I
think it is very important for people to be healthy. Don't just accept oneself
and decide that you can sit around. Or decide you have no control over your
weight and do the same.
Everyone should start off with little things that are easy for most of us:
-Walk up stairs instead of taking the elevator (for anything under 5 floors)
-Walk to the supermarket to get your milk (I know not everyone can do this
do to distance)
-Park your car farther away from the store than you normally would.
(there's almost always plenty of parking out there)
-Go for romantic walks with a SO after dinner.
-Ride your bike (if you have one) places instead of taking a car
-Walk down the hall and talk to someone face to face instead of calling them
-if you already walk a lot of places and want to do something walker faster
(or further)
None of the above is real hard it just takes a change in habits for most.
Sorry I'll get off my soapbox now.....
>
>Jeanetta
Again welcome to the group Jeanetta
Paul Johnson
Charlotte NC
terra
Micky DuPree blabbed:
: te...@primenet.com (terra) writes:
: >sometimes it's like they're not even trying...These girls in
: >college would take the friggin elevator down ONE flight of stairs
: You have no business making a moral judgment of someone
: based on their *fucking elevator use*, and before you even
: reach a character judgment, you should walk a mile, upstairs,
: in their knees.
I have every right in the world to make judgements about anyone. You
must ask yourself, why do you CARE what I think about some stranger in an
elevator? Why do you care what some stranger in an elevator thinks about
YOU?
I make my judgement, knowing I might be wrong. True, they *might* have
bad knees or they might be lazy. They might be the coolest person in the
whole entire world and I might be losing out on the opportunity to have
known them by making snap judgements about them, but that's what people
do, we size each other up and make a quick call. Oftentimes you're
wrong, but most of the time, if you're good at it, you are right.
I think it's a good thing about human nature that we can learn from our
past experiences and make judgements. I like that I can pick a guy out
in a crowd who would be VERY VERY BAD for me, because of his "type". I
call that learning. So, granted, this has very little to do with people
I meet in elevators, but the point is, I have every right in the world
to make quick size-ups of people I meet on the street, reserving the
right to be wrong about them. And you have every right not to care what
judgement I may come to about you.
-terra
Micky DuPree
>(gee, maybe this is why I have a teensy bit of animosity towards obese
>people. sometimes it's like they're not even trying...These girls in
>college would take the friggin elevator down ONE flight of stairs --yes,
>down!--Come to think of it, there's a secretary in my building, who
>routinely stops the elevator at the second floor to hop on and ride down
>to the first. ARGH)
After injuring my knees in college, I was *ordered* by my
orthopedist to take the elevator at every opportunity.
"Even to go down one floor?" asked I, incredulously. "Even
that," he replied. I don't always, though, because I really
get sick and tired of the dirty looks and even dirty remarks
of others. Other people get handed similar advice, though,
either by their doctors or by their knees and joints
themselves. Obesity is often accompanied by chronic knee
pain brought on by strain and misalignment.
You have no business making a moral judgment of someone
based on their *fucking elevator use*, and before you even
reach a character judgment, you should walk a mile, upstairs,
in their knees.
-Micky
david s. broudy
da...@ins.infonet.net (Alexander Darke) wrote:
< *thwap*
<
< David....you are far from being overweight. Hell, I should know. :p
(He's awfully nice, isn't he?) ;)
< Anyway. I agree with prior statements about "How do you classify people
< who can do nothing about their weight?" I suffer from a medical condition
< known as Hypothyroid, and no matter what the doctors do, they can't ever
< seem to get my medication right. The levels of my thyroid are just too
< weird. As a result? I can go *days* without eating and still gain weight.
< For example....Moose.cabal? How much did I eat over that tingle weekend?
< And consider that with the fact that I gained 15 lbs over that time
< period.
Gawd. I gained 3-4 and was whining about that.
I was diagnosed hypothyroid at age 7, but so was my mother and one of my
sisters. Turns out that back in 1969 or so it was very common to attribute
heaviness to "hypothyroidism" and the docs would prescribe a mild dose of
Synthroid mostly for the placebo effect. This had the effect of boosting
their incomes, not to mention the stock value of Syntex, the manufacturer
of Synthroid. My thyroid levels have been normal for years as have my
mom's and sister's, and they're pretty regular-sized; in fact Mom weighs
about 95 lbs.
I got an earful from my doctor the last time I unknowingly, because of the
history, asked her to check my thyroid, which was 100% fine. She said
"there's nothing wrong with you that daily exercise, quitting smoking, and
boycotting fast foods can't cure." Ouch.
I know that your condition is 1000% worse than some who claim thyroid
disease as an excuse for being overweight, and I'm not discounting your
ailment at all.
< Nothing I do can make the weight go away. Sometimes, the doctor gets lucky
< and for 3 or 4 months my medications will stop the weight gain, enough so
< I can loose weight. Then, low and behold, I start gaining weight like a
< madman, and the doctor says "We need to change your meds..."
<
< I am learning to deal with being fat. (No offense to other people, it's
< the word I *choose* to apply to myself)
You? FAT? Bwaaahahahahah!
I think he's fine.
Nicole Barr
Borg) writes:
> Sometimes, I just lie in bed and try to think of where I could move in
> the world where things aren't as screwed up as they are here.
Hear here, sister! Is there any place not as screwed up as here? Didja
come up with anything?
Peace
Nicole
(Genuinely curious, not being a smart-ass)
Nicole Barr
Volkar) writes: > think that health is more important ... for whatever
reasons, > my eating habits and exercise schedule are better now than they
> ever have been in the past, when I depended on my metabolism to
> take care of the junk food fat grams instead of exercise. I
> don't watch television; I walk to and from work every day; I
> try to take the stairs if it's less than a three-floor
> difference (see elevator stories). Every now and then I've been
> known to RUN up twelve flights of stairs just for the hell of
> it. I feel great, I think I look great, and that's all that
> counts.
>
Hi Greg! Yeah, I lost 30 lbs. in 3 months just by not eating
fried food and cheese. This was over the winter. The only other
change was that I got a dog, and of course he needed to be walked
and played with. No intentional exercise.
Secondly, I now get paid to walk and bike all day, and I love it (I'm
a dog walker). It's great to have a job that keeps you in shape. Previous to
this, I have only had jobs that require sitting on my butt.
Peace
Nicole
Not fat, not thin, I'm a big person - in a Viking kinda way. If we
have a mini-Chicago tingle, you'll all see for yourselves. :)
Nicole Barr
> I'm heavier than when I went to New Orleans..wait..I didn't go. Um, I
> have a 10 pound range and since I'm 5'8" no one but me really notices.
Me too. Ain't that great :)
> Healthy for me is being able to run a mile without hyperventilating,
> being able to lift heavy objects easily (this is the last to go with
> me...Irish Peasant Woman Genes!), being able to dance for 3-4 hours
> straight, having a rosy glow in my cheeks, and being able to take
> 2 stairs at a time, all the time. Whatever my body looks like as
> a result falls within a fairly variable range. So, I like my jeans
> to fit for economic purposes, but other than that, as long as the
> above criteria are satisfied, so am I.
Damn good criteria, I think. Gee, what a shock since I think the
same way. In my case, it's German Peasant Woman Genes that made
my frame what it is. I am also very very fair and blond, and when
I exercise really hard, I turn a very alarming purple color. Even
though I'm OK, people always look at me like they are waiting for me
to have a heart attack or something. Ditched the health club. I've
grown to hate indoor exercise, besides, my new job gives me LOTS
of outdoor exercise.
Peace
Nicole
Marco Anglesio
because of a dislocated thumb and resulting swelling all the way through
my left hand - the thumb still hasn't returned to it's place.
And I would have gone swimming, except my shoulder's still recovering
from a separation and our Head of Athletic Therapy told me to lay off
swimming indefinitely. Damn ... :)
I'm a slacker ... but I have damn good excuses :)
Eric Scheidler
> [mail order info del.]
But I WANT IT NOW!! ... I want the *whole* *world*
**dances around a la Veruca Salt**
----
"I've been there and I know the way."
-- REM, "Can't Get There from Here"
--
::: Eric Scheidler ::: uesc...@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu ::: dishes: wash in hot :::
steven r kleinedler
>
>
>Then again, there are those of us who have horrible reactions to
>aspartame (NutraSweet). Every time I ingest it, which is not often, I get
>blinding headaches. Besides that, it tastes awful.
Maybe you're phenylketuronic.
Lynda Farley
: Some folks ("supertasters!") are also overly sensitive to the bitter
: aftertaste that others just do NOT taste. It's genetic. I'm one of
: these...kinda fun to say "I'm a supertaster!".
Actually, one of my good friends at Wake Forest used to get awful
headaches from colas with Nutrasweet. It turns out, according to
a professor who studies taste at Duke University (Dr. Sue Shiffman)
that the gum (check the ingredients) they use to mask the bitter
aftertaste, some folks have an allergic (headache usually) reaction
to...
*These* are the types of trivia I have learned in my seven years studying
chemoreception!
Lynda
-science trivia expert... ;)
--
Lynda Farley "The world is my lobster."
(far...@bio.bu.edu) -Henry J. Tillman
steven r kleinedler
>
>Hello-
>I have been lurking for a while and this thread finally drew me to post.
Welcome!
Strike up the band! Strike up the welcome wagon!
--
Steve Kleinedler, GenX-icographer (and his stuffed meese, Kozmo & Jiri)
what's left: "tab" thru "tyrant"
Richard Patrick Larimore
>
>Are you finished going off on me and what I believe? I think you read a
>*HELL* of a lot into my post.
According to the papers, Newt Gingrich is upset at the idea of politicians
using a policy of personal destruction.
Piglet
Gregory Peter Volkar
different locations ... I ran up twelve flights of stairs - oh,
no, make that fourteen (the door was locked, so I went to the
next floor up and found another stairwell) and then ran down
two to get to my floor ... after reading this thread, and after
last night's Attack of the McDonald's Cravings, I felt I HAD to.
Greg, who just found out satisfying that craving netted over
800 calories and around 55 fat grams.....and is NOT happy.
Richard Patrick Larimore
>
>Some folks ("supertasters!") are also overly sensitive to the bitter
>aftertaste that others just do NOT taste. It's genetic. I'm one of
>these...kinda fun to say "I'm a supertaster!".
I always figured the definitive test for supertasterhood was whether you
could put a piece of pretzel in your mouth and accurately count the grains of
salt with your tongue.
Piglet, unclear on the concept
Micky DuPree
>fuck this shit. i really need a fucking psychoanalysis because of one
>post that maybe hit a little too close to home.
So, you don't like being judged on the basis of scant and superficial
evidence? The sound of one hand clapping may be the beat of a divided
heart, Grasshopper.
-Micky
--
Carl has awakened a slumbering gnat, and I've decided I'm going to keep
buzzing for a while ...
steven r kleinedler
>
>Why don't the several of us who really want to get into shape for the
>Summer Tingle get together on a distribution list and help each other
>out? We can report on our progress, help each other set goals, keep each
>other on track (pun intended!), and get a little support. Our "ultimate
>goal" could be to go running together at the Summer Tingle.
[snicker]
...**snort**
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[wobble]
[crash]
Not to denigrate your efforts, Eric, but I'm enivisioning doing
isometric neck exercises while typing to you -- I feel the pull,
I feel the burn.
The net lends itself well to many things -- physical training Im
not quite so sure...
Carl Beaudry
> [snicker]
> ...**snort**
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
> [wobble]
> [crash]
>
> Not to denigrate your efforts, Eric, but I'm enivisioning doing
> isometric neck exercises while typing to you -- I feel the pull,
> I feel the burn.
No brain no pain.
> The net lends itself well to many things -- physical training Im
> not quite so sure...
I dunno about that. I've come up with some of my best flamage on the
stairmaster here in Arctic, PA, I find that I write much nastier stuff
after working out than any other time of day. Ya gotta stay in shape for
them flame wars.
--Carl
Nicole Barr
writes: > : On 22 Jan 1995, Nicole Barr wrote:
>
> : > I cannot even believe that one person thinks that DC actually tastes
> : > good, much less millions of people. Chemicals in a can just can't
> : > be good for you either.
>
> Diet cola DOES have a bitter aftertaste but after a month or so of
> drinking it you get use to the taste, even like the taste if you are so
> inclined and Regular cola begins to taste not as good.
>
Sounds like a sinister plot to me, but then I'm always suspicious of
corporate America.
Peace
Nicole
Laura McMahon
>
>Thin-ness doesn't matter anymore. Not to me, at least. Tracy takes care of
>her body - so do I, for that matter :) - and there's little she can do
>about the fact that she's chunky. I like her that way. I like her because
>she's herself, and not because she can't amass the willpower to lose
>weight for some reason - she was made the way she is. I don't even want
>her to try ... I want her to stay happy, and keep her smile and the
>sparkle of her eyes - and to keep her smiling at me, too.
Thank you Marco for speaking my mind. I agree that thin-ness should not
matter,..and what does matter is if the person carrying that weight feels
good about themselves. I will not do the random self-disclosure about my
weight/height/body-fat, but I will admit to having to shed a few pounds.
It's attitude, and how I feel about myself. I know I will never be
waif-like, and I know I will not let myself get obscenely overweight, I
am just realistic and I think a brain and confidence are a lot more sexy
than a bra size or body fat percantage.
just my thoughts,.....and I drink Diet coke too....:P
Laura
Seattle mini-tingle? Any takers?
Emily Way
>I feel a rant coming on.
[Elizabeth's rant about thinking she's fat deleted -- I have to admit that
when I read it, I wondered whether it had been written by the same Elizabeth
Walkup that I met in New Orleans]
I've been mulling over how to respond on this thread for quite a while
now. Weighing 30 pounds less than I used to, I feel that I have quite a
lot to say about issues of weight, and about how overweight people get
treated in our society. I was always a very skinny kid, but I started
putting on about ten pounds a year every year through my adolescence.
By the time I was 20, I was carrying almost 160 pounds around on a 5'3"
frame. I gained the weight because I was hiding behind it. Without
getting into too many details about my very complicated relationship
with my mother (who I later found out has an eating disorder of her own),
I will say that I came home to an empty house every afternoon and for
whatever reason believed that its being empty was my fault. I sought
solace in food. I got really good at grabbing handfuls of cereal out of
each box and leaving just enough so no one would suspect anything. When
I was in college and supported myself for a summer, I'd spend my money
not on healthful, nourishing food, but on pints of Ben & Jerry's. I
could eat an entire pint at one sitting. I went home the following
summer to a mother who alternately nagged me about how being heavy
wasn't good for me and she just wanted what was best for me, and
threatened that I would never find anyone else to love me if I was fat.
I couldn't stand it anymore, so I went to Nutri System for that summer
and split the cost with my parents, who told me they wanted their
(considerable amount of) money back if I gained the weight back. I lost
a lot of weight. I went back to school that fall, for my last year,
and continued going and spending $64 on food each week (on top of what
the college's meal plan cost) until I couldn't afford it anymore. I
started eating normal food again, and put back at least 20 pounds. My
mother started in with the threats again, just about demanding her money
back when she knew I had no way to pay her. (I had $1000 sitting on
my Discover card from all of that bullshit, too.) I tried my best to
ignore her.
That was the fall after I'd found out about the troubles my mom had
had with alcohol and eating disorders. One of the people who lived on
my hall had an alcoholic mother, too, and she knew what the common
characteristics of children of alcoholic parents were. It was like
reading a checklist. Knowing Carol *really* helped me understand
that my mother's problems *weren't* my fault, that I could still love
my mother but not her addiction, etc. -- all the psychobabble that
refuses to die because it's got at least some small grain of truth to
it. Then one day I was walking through a K-Mart, of all places, and
saw a book called _When Food Is Love: Exploring the Relationship
Between Eating and Intimacy_, by a woman named Geneen Roth. I bought
the book on a whim, and took it home and read it in about three
hours and sobbed my eyes out. Geneen Roth knew. She didn't have any
easy answers. Her writing was clear and intimate. She knew about
the self-loathing, the terror of being abandoned, the shame of thinking
that the abandonment is your own fault.
She told a story about an obese 8-year-old girl whose mother was
desperate to get her to lose weight, and who tried all kinds of
draconian diets to change her daughter's eating habits. The daughter
managed to sneak food at every opportunity, and kept gaining weight.
The mother took her daughter to a psychologist, who asked the mother
what the daughter's favorite food was. "M&Ms," was the response.
The psychologist told the mother, "I want you to go buy three or four
pounds of M&Ms and fill a pillowcase with them. Let your daughter
carry the pillowcase around all the time, and let her eat as many
M&Ms as she wants." The mother was horrified, but she decided to
to ahead and do it, because she'd tried everything else. On the
first day, the little girl ate M&Ms by the fistful. She could hardly
cram enough of them into her mouth. On the second day, she carried
the pillowcase around, but didn't eat as many M&Ms. After a few days,
she'd forget the pillowcase and go play with other things; eventually
the pillowcase was abandoned. After a few weeks the little girl had
lost several pounds. *She knew that food was not going to abandon her.*
Food has taken on meanings in our culture that it was never meant to
have. Food is fuel for our bodies. Food is not emotional solace, it
is not a lover, it is not a parent. It is not going to dump you.
There will be more potato chips in the morning. A lot of people have
lost track of what it means to listen to what their bodies -- not their
souls -- tell them about what it means to be full and nourished.
So. After I finished Roth's book, I felt almost as if a demon had been
exorcised. That must have been the spring of my senior year. Right
after I graduated, I stopped eating meat, and started learning how to
cook with more healthful foods than ramen noodles. I got better at
recognizing when I wasn't hungry. The extra weight came off, slowly
but surely, and it's stayed off. I eat what I want to, when I want to,
and I know that the reason I want it is a much healthier one than
the reason I wanted to cram down entire pints of Ben & Jerry's or
fistsful of dry cereal. I have a man who loves me.
I am a lot more comfortable in my own body than I used to be. I like
the way my face looks, so I don't put makeup on it. I don't like
cutting myself, so I don't shave. I like having my hair be a bit
redder than it would be otherwise, so I put henna on it. I like the
way I feel when I weigh 125 more than I did when I weighed 155, so
I eat good, nourishing food, and try not to be a big slug, and I tell
myself that I am a worthwhile person who doesn't need to hide behind
fat. I don't even do that consciously anymore.
Anyway. These are my own experiences. I think that holding them up
and comparing them against the experiences of Elizabeth and Jenny,
whose bodies decided that they wanted to be bigger on their own, and
against the experiences of people who stay heavy because they're too
lazy to do anything -- psychological or physical -- about it, and
against the experiences of people who couldn't gain weight if they
tried -- all of this comparing shows that body shape is a tremendously
complicated issue, and not one that should be dismissed as a matter
of not caring enough about oneself.
--
Emily Way
spa...@io.org
http://www.io.org/~spamily/
Kelly T. Conlon
>da...@ins.infonet.net (Alexander Darke) writes:
>>MDu...@world.std.com (Micky DuPree) wrote:
>>> Choice is a red herring. The issue is, can people distinguish
>>> between a physical inconvenience and a sin?
>>Oh, Mickey, you opened up a whole 'nother can of worms here.
>>Are you *sure* sin is the word you wanted to choose?
>The can has been sitting on the table all along and the worms
>have long since slithered out and into people's minds. "Sin"
>is not the word *I* would choose, being agnostic, but have you
>ever really listened to the rhetoric of eating, weight loss,
>and weight gain?
[deletion]
Well, you've convinced me that the choice of the word "sin" is entirely
appropriate. Remember your 7 deadly sins, Alexander... I think it is
fair to say that we have been socially conditioned to respond to thin-ness
and obesity in a certain way. I think the ad campaigns Mickey refers to
play on the idea that "Gluttony" is indeed a sin and can be correlated
with the outward appearence of a person.
Shall I now sermonize about the use of that other deadly sin "lust" to
prove the point?
KTC
--
Kelly T Conlon / con...@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca / Bureaucracy is as wrong as
cancer, a turning away from the human evolutionary direction of infinite
potentials and differentiation and independent spontaneous action, to
the complete parasitism of a virus / William S. Burroughs, "Naked Lunch".
Emily Way
>Gregory Peter Volkar blabbed:
>: Greg, who just found out satisfying that craving netted over
>: 800 calories and around 55 fat grams.....and is NOT happy.
>ACK! (i, like greg, am a major fat-counter)
>that is as many as I have in a WEEK!!!
>
>am I the only one on a ultra low-fat diet who gets fat cravings? I mean,
>I'll go two or three days eating apples, salad (oil free dressing),
>broccoli, toasted bagels with jam, etc... and suddenly I'll be overcome
>by a need to eat a handful of shredded cheddar cheese out of the bag on
>the way out of the supermarket parking lot.
>
>I've even eaten olive oil plain on these occasions...it's weird.
No, it's not weird. Your body needs fat. The fat cravings tell you
that, if nothing else does. Ultra low-fat diets can be lifesavers
for people with heart disease, but for the rest of us, they're often
not a great idea. Bodies often know what they need: when my mom was
pregnant with me, she got tremendous cravings for bananas, which she
didn't like very much. When she had some blood work done, she was told
that she was very low on potassium -- guess what bananas are loaded
with.
Someone else made this distinction in another post on this thread, but
I think it bears repeating. Thinness and fatness don't necessarily
correlate with healthiness and unhealthiness. You only need look at
my 5'6", 110lb mother to know that.
I'm a bit concerned about the turn this thread has taken, especially
after last night on the IRC. There, the idea came up that heavier
a.s.g-xers might be unwilling to tingle, for fear of being judged
about their weight. This is Not Cool. I want for the people who
have never really had to struggle with weight or with being perceived
as fat to understand that the issues are tremendously complicated and
often very painful. Someone else's judgment is the last thing a heavy
person (who is unhappy about being heavy) needs.
My take on all this: eat healthful foods, in the quantities that your
body tells you to, and don't get mouth hunger and stomach hunger
confused. If you're unhappy with your eating habits, look at what
else is going on in your life that influences them. Don't substitute
food for emotional solace, and don't deny yourself. Trust your body,
and the hell with what Madison Avenue says. And don't judge anyone
else if they don't do the same.
Robert Cooperman
: I just wanted to add a word in support of a previous poster
: (I couldn't find the post when I went back to look) who pointed out
: that it's easy to be critical of overweight people when you're
: 21, but perhaps not as easy a decade later (I am 32.). I was a skinny,
: skinny, skinny teenager (6'1", 155 lbs), but time, and bad eating habits
: during graduate school, pushed me up about 25 lbs.
: It would be interesting to see how this thread would
: develop when everyone is 10 years older...
This is something to keep in mind. Your warranty runs out when you turn
30. Then, its up to you to do your preventative maintanence. Actually, in
terms of weight, its likely to be around age 25. Before than, many people
can do nothing to take care of themselves, and still be in good
shape. After then, it is something you have to decide to do.
The good news, is that many aspects of the aging process, are really lack
of maintanence catching up with you.
As far as weight goes, humans seem to have two modes. One is for an
environment where there are occasional famines, and there is not much you
can do about it. In those cases, putting on weight when food is plentiful,
and conserving energy (being lazy), makes sense. Those people might not
live quite as long into their 70's, but they were more likely to survive
their 20's and 30's, by surviving famines. Stress tends to put people into
this mode, since stress and lack of food probably went together through
human evolution.
The other mode, is where food is available for people who are energetic. In
those cases, the survival advantage went to people who didn't have much fat
to slow them down, and were in good shape aerobically. This mode could
represent hunting and gathering, while the other mode might represent
agriculture. This mode feels good, it probably the best of humanity. It is
where being creative, being skilled, being fast, being strong, actually is
useful. Hunting and gathering are fun.
Agriculture is the drudgery aspect of human life. You've got to depend on
the weather, you have only a limited amount of land you own or rent. There
is usually some sort of heirarchy. Creativity is usually not a good thing,
as tried and true methods that have worked through previous climate cycles,
are probably what are worth sticking with.
Bob Cooperman
r...@xis.xerox.com
Any views expressed are my own and are not intended to represent my employer.
My newsfeed is now about 5 days behind, so if this post seems hopelessly late,
oh well.
Peter Dubuque
>Hmmm. I come up with my flames in the bathtub. Guess it's not the same....
What the hell do you bathe in--gasoline?
--
Peter F. Dubuque
dub...@husc.harvard.edu
Enemy of Reason(TM)
Tim Irvin
: terra <te...@primenet.com> wrote:
: >Gregory Peter Volkar blabbed:
: >: Greg, who just found out satisfying that craving netted over
: >: 800 calories and around 55 fat grams.....and is NOT happy.
: > ^^^^^^^^^^^^
: >ACK! (i, like greg, am a major fat-counter)
: >that is as many as I have in a WEEK!!!
: > [...]
: >
: No, it's not weird. Your body needs fat. The fat cravings tell you
: that, if nothing else does. Ultra low-fat diets can be lifesavers
: for people with heart disease, but for the rest of us, they're often
: not a great idea. Bodies often know what they need: when my mom was
: pregnant with me, she got tremendous cravings for bananas, which she
: didn't like very much. When she had some blood work done, she was told
: that she was very low on potassium -- guess what bananas are loaded
: with.
I know it's not a good idea to gorge yourself on a high-fat diet, but
people, let's not forget another killer: stress.
Sometimes I feel like we do more damage to ourselves worrying about
every last little thing we put into our bodies than we do by having a
relatively moderate amount of fat/chemical additives/et cetera.
Maybe a few pizzas, cheeseburgers and beers will take 5 years off of my
life. But maybe worrying like hell about not eating them will also
take a few years off due to stress, *and* you're depriving yourself of
something you want. I'll eat my favorite foods and take my chances.
: Someone else made this distinction in another post on this thread, but
: I think it bears repeating. Thinness and fatness don't necessarily
: correlate with healthiness and unhealthiness. You only need look at
: my 5'6", 110lb mother to know that.
True. There are a *lot* of variables, weight and diet being only two of
them. Two important ones, granted, but there are a *lot* of factors.
And I *still* think way too many people ignore the *stress* of trying
to stay thin or go on a low-fat diet when figuring out impact on their
health.
: I'm a bit concerned about the turn this thread has taken, especially
: after last night on the IRC. There, the idea came up that heavier
: a.s.g-xers might be unwilling to tingle, for fear of being judged
: about their weight. This is Not Cool. I want for the people who
: have never really had to struggle with weight or with being perceived
: as fat to understand that the issues are tremendously complicated and
: often very painful. Someone else's judgment is the last thing a heavy
: person (who is unhappy about being heavy) needs.
Cool. As someone who is 5'8" and 200 pounds, I've never really felt like
anyone made it an issue. I know that people tend to make it more of an
issue with women, wrong as it is, but I still take the attitude that
anyone who would judge me based on my weight is not someone I particularly
care to impress or befriend anyway. And besides, for someone of my height
and weight proportions, I don't look *that* overweight. (I could lose
20 pounds, though. I wish I know people around here who liked to play
basketball. That would do it.)
: My take on all this: eat healthful foods, in the quantities that your
: body tells you to, and don't get mouth hunger and stomach hunger
: confused. If you're unhappy with your eating habits, look at what
: else is going on in your life that influences them. Don't substitute
: food for emotional solace, and don't deny yourself. Trust your body,
: and the hell with what Madison Avenue says. And don't judge anyone
: else if they don't do the same.
Good point. I think anyone who tries *too hard* to eat right may be
stressing themselves out more than the benefits of that diet will give
them.
--
* Tim Irvin is zig...@rahul.net * WWW: http://www.rahul.net/ziggy29
*****************************************************************************
* Programmer/Analyst/Grad Student/ * GCS: !h s:+ !g au+ w+ C++$ v++ w+ U N++
* Husband/Net Geek/ASGX '65 Cabal * W po+ t+@ Y+ j++ B-- e+++ u** r+++ y+++
B. Erin Cole
>terra <te...@primenet.com> wrote:
>>am I the only one on a ultra low-fat diet who gets fat cravings? I mean,
>>I'll go two or three days eating apples, salad (oil free dressing),
>>broccoli, toasted bagels with jam, etc... and suddenly I'll be overcome
>>by a need to eat a handful of shredded cheddar cheese out of the bag on
>>the way out of the supermarket parking lot.
>>
>>I've even eaten olive oil plain on these occasions...it's weird.
>
>No, it's not weird. Your body needs fat. The fat cravings tell you
>that, if nothing else does. Ultra low-fat diets can be lifesavers
>for people with heart disease, but for the rest of us, they're often
>not a great idea. Bodies often know what they need: when my mom was
>pregnant with me, she got tremendous cravings for bananas, which she
>didn't like very much. When she had some blood work done, she was told
>that she was very low on potassium -- guess what bananas are loaded
>with.
This happens to me a lot. I'm on the Poor College Student Diet most of
the time: ramen, heat-up burritoes, other cheap junk, and I get these
incredible cravings once in awhile for things I haven't been eating. Last
night, I got this insatiable craving for orange juice. There is no
grocery store near my apartment, so I had to walk down the street to the
gas station and get two huge things of OJ. It's gone now. But I have
plenty of Vitamin C in me!! Guess I'd better start eating oranges.
>I'm a bit concerned about the turn this thread has taken, especially
>after last night on the IRC. There, the idea came up that heavier
>a.s.g-xers might be unwilling to tingle, for fear of being judged
>about their weight. This is Not Cool.
I will admit, I was really freaking out about this before the Tingle. In
the back of my mind, I kept thinking, "what if they think I'm fat???" I
was actually worried about it for awhile. Then I realized that this was a
really stupid thing to think, and stopped. I figured, "if they can't
accept me for who I am, that's their problem." Turns out there was no
problem at all. But I can see why someone would be worried about it.
Cheerily,
B. Erin Cole
b-list mascot, flake
Jason Kodish
>
>In article <79090509...@thwap.ve6mgs.ampr.ab.ca>> jko...@thwap.ve6mgs.ampr.ab.ca (Jason Kodish) writes:
>>
>>
>>Of course, there are all the chemicals they put in our water, and the
>>fact that oftentimes water is drawn from lakes even the fish stay away from.
>>( A glass of Lake Michigan?)
>>
>
>Don't fuck with Lake Michigan, man... besides, it's not the lake, it's
>the rivers that run into it (just ask those in Milwaukee). We reversed
Yeouch! I didn't mean to get your feathers ruffled on that one.
:-)
>refereshing as a large, wholesome glass of chilled water from the
>lake.
So if I bring some, straight out of the lake, to the next Tingle, you'll
drink it in front of me?
:")
>Don't knock it bud. Our other alternative is to flood your province
>as our reservoir.
Ok with me. This province is going to Hell in a handbasket anyways.
:)
>
>
>--
>Steve Kleinedler, GenX-icographer (and his stuffed meese, Kozmo & Jiri)
>
>what's left: "tempt" thru "tuxedo"
>
--
____________________________________________________________________________
Jason Kodish, | R - 1/2 g R =T
University of Alberta | un un un
Department of Gravitational Engineering |(Einstein Field Equation)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_____..---======~~^~~=======---.._____
______________________ __,-='=====____ ================ _____=====`=
(._____________________I__) - _-=_/ `--------=+=-------'
/ /__...---===='---+---_'
Unknown
>(Jason Kodish) writes:
>
>>Hmmm. I come up with my flames in the bathtub. Guess it's not the same....
>
>What the hell do you bathe in--gasoline?
Or he's igniting those bubbles that rise
to the surface while bathing. It's much
safer than lighting them through clothing.
-dan snider
amanda wilson
>Jennifer Wise (jw...@Virginia.EDU) wrote:
>: I've been reading this thread and thinking...
>
>: *Bollocks* to the F-word, I'm not fat....I'm *Rubenesque*!!!
>
>Lovely, indeed!
>
>Or as my wonderful Moose friend used to say when I weighed more..
>
>"Jeepers Jenny, you look like a Renoir painting!"
hey! i used to say that. as a matter of fact, i was at the national
gallery and thought to myself that i looked a little like that degas up
there with the curves and the very pink skin.
then i realized i was somewhat smaller now. stopped me in my tracks!
-- amanda (it's still a nice painting; i'm still crusading for the
appreciation of healthy looking women and the men who appreciate them.
and vice versa)
William B Weil
: >Jennifer Wise (jw...@Virginia.EDU) wrote:
: >
: >: *Bollocks* to the F-word, I'm not fat....I'm *Rubenesque*!!!
mmm, Ruben...
: -- amanda (it's still a nice painting; i'm still crusading for the
: appreciation of healthy looking women and the men who appreciate them.
: and vice versa)
sign me up.
-bill(RandomPostMan's last other was taller and probably
weighed more, but i didn't check. the problem probably has
to do with men not wanting to feel like they're out of
control. loss of power type thing. just a theory)
Jennifer Wise
> In <3gltac$g...@news.bu.edu> ba...@bio.bu.edu (Jennifer Basil) writes:
>
> >Jennifer Wise (jw...@Virginia.EDU) wrote:
> >: I've been reading this thread and thinking...
> >
> >: *Bollocks* to the F-word, I'm not fat....I'm *Rubenesque*!!!
> >
> >Lovely, indeed!
> >
> >Or as my wonderful Moose friend used to say when I weighed more..
> >
> >"Jeepers Jenny, you look like a Renoir painting!"
>
> hey! i used to say that. as a matter of fact, i was at the national
> gallery and thought to myself that i looked a little like that degas up
> there with the curves and the very pink skin.
Jenny
Jeffrey Pikul - ACPS/W94
Tim Irvin (zig...@rahul.net) wrote:
: Emily Way (spa...@io.org) wrote:
: : terra <te...@primenet.com> wrote:
: : Bodies often know what they need:
This is true, but people often don't get the message. Especially if they
have some sort of psychological dependency on food. (see below.)
: : when my mom was
: : pregnant with me, she got tremendous cravings for bananas, which she
: : didn't like very much. When she had some blood work done, she was told
: : that she was very low on potassium -- guess what bananas are loaded
: : with.
Sodium levels are related to potassium levels. I don't like bananas as
much as I used to now that I'm on a low-sodium diet.
: I know it's not a good idea to gorge yourself on a high-fat diet, but
: people, let's not forget another killer: stress.
True. During the last three weeks of every term, I'm on the "student
diet" of no sleep and two 2-litre bottles of Coke a day. Not exactly a
healthy eating plan. B-b
And now, the part that hit close to home...
: : I'm a bit concerned about the turn this thread has taken, especially
: : after last night on the IRC. There, the idea came up that heavier
: : a.s.g-xers might be unwilling to tingle, ^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Well, I showed up. But I started tingling *long* before this issue
ever came up; I hope that other heavyset would-be tinglers won't be
discouraged by this.
: : for fear of being judged
: : about their weight. This is Not Cool.
Definitely. B-(
: : I want for the people who
: : have never really had to struggle with weight or with being perceived
: : as fat to understand that the issues are tremendously complicated and
: : often very painful. Someone else's judgment is the last thing a heavy
: : person (who is unhappy about being heavy) needs.
: Cool. As someone who is 5'8" and 200 pounds, I've never really felt like
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Eeek! I've been cloned! B-)
: anyone made it an issue.
Well, it is an issue. I come from a heavyset family who loves good food
and leads a sedentary lifestyle. I was never good at sports as a kid
(hi Eric), and was often harassed during gym class for it. Now I have a
hard time dealing with the locker room of any gym.
That's right, *locker* *room*.
Ever been in a locker room where *you're* the only overweight person in
a room where everyone else could model Calvins? It's damn intimidating,
and keeps a lot of people away from the exercise they honestly need.
: : My take on all this: eat healthful foods, in the quantities that your
: : body tells you to, and don't get mouth hunger and stomach hunger
: : confused. If you're unhappy with your eating habits, look at what
: : else is going on in your life that influences them. Don't substitute
: : food for emotional solace, and don't deny yourself. Trust your body,
: : and the hell with what Madison Avenue says.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Madison Avenue didn't become what it is by not doing its job well.
It's damn tough to separate healthy, natural body messages from gluttonous
cravings and emotional dependencies. And you won't get *fuck* *all* help
from anybody else.
: * Tim Irvin is zig...@rahul.net * WWW: http://www.rahul.net/ziggy29
--
Jeffrey Pikul, will eat a pound of (good) kielbasa for food.
jpi...@jupiter.scs.ryerson.ca jpi...@turing.acs.ryerson.ca
"Modern disillusion is unlikely to last forever, and nothing rings so
hollow as the angst of yesteryear." --Robertson Davies
Stephen Perelgut
: Cool. As someone who is 5'8" and 200 pounds, I've never really felt like
Amazing! I have been thinking about joining this thread, mostly because I
was 5'8" and 210lb before starting to work at this high-stress desk job. Now
it's more like 230lb and I desparately need to drop 40-60lb. At 210lb, I felt
"heavy" but strong (and I could hit a baseball anywhere I wanted and run the
bases). Now I feel like a slug.
Anyway, the thing that pushed me into posting is that I've always thought
of Tim as 6'2", 180lb and a star softball player. (Man, did those batting
averages lead my subconscious into a strange, subliminal assumption.)
The two things I'm curious about: personal body image and "fad" diets. My
personal body image was formed when I was in my early teens. Short, thin,
geeky. That was me. I took boxing because I didn't like running away
anymore. It worked because the next time someone picked on me, I pulped
him. One other guy picked a fight (at Scouts, boxing with gloves and rules)
and I knocked him out. Then I was short, thin, geeky and too tough/insignificant
to bother with. After that I enjoyed high school.
The problem with body image is that I sometimes *SEE* myself in a mirror and
startle because that's not who I think I am. Even more so in photo's. It's
a good thing I look so good in a tuxedo or my sister's wedding album (last June)
would have a few, indiscrete holes in it.
Which leads to dieting/exercise. I gain slowly when my caloric intake goes
above 2000 and I only lose if I consistently hold below 1200. The few
surviving people who knew me when I stayed at 1200 for 6months will attest to
the fact that it isn't worth it!
Which leads to other things. Blood testing and nutritional counselling show
I have a very "efficient" metabolism. My thyroid is just fine, damn it. When
I exercised regularly, I dropped 10lb in 2 months and stayed that way for 2 more
years. When I stopped, I gained the 10lb and stayed that way until this recent
job.
So, is there some other reason which can be controlled. I've tried a few "fad"
diets, after deciding there might be a reasonable basis for success. One had
me eating strange foods to balance out a "type". It worked marginally but
was miserable and it was incompatible with enjoying life so...poof. The
Scarsdale diet worked but only by holding calories down. I dropped to 170lb,
looked good and was the most miserable son-of-a-bitch to be around. Apparently
I have a mean streak although only the battle-scarred survivors of that era
know it.
Which leads to something which sounds promising, "The Carbohydrate Addicts Diet".
Anyone tried it? The intro has a description of what makes a carbohydrate
addict and a "test" that seems pretty specific to my classical scientific mind.
I hit most of the points and appear to be a classic. My jaded eye sees the
diet plan as reasonable (caloric intake is secondary to controlling the timing
of carb's). I know a couple of people who've been following it with success
but I'd feel better, as I start off, knowing if anyone else has any experience
with it.
Someone (Eric??) suggested being running buddies over the Internet. How about
diet buddies? 60lbs on this diet is at least 2 years. That's a long
commitment but the plan seems to be a livable one.
P.S. Thanks Tim, the fact that you are roughly my height/weight (or at least
what it was 3 yrs ago) when I thought of you very differently is what pushed
me over into posting. How's the batting average.
--
Stephen Perelgut pere...@vnet.ibm.com ** NOTE ** These are my views
(pere...@csri.toronto.edu ) [Will steal ideas for laughs.]
Sherry L Anderson
: I've been reading this thread and thinking...
: *Bollocks* to the F-word, I'm not fat....I'm *Rubenesque*!!!
I kinda like the word fat... for it's shock value. When I describe
myself to people that I haven't met before, it always goes something like
"I'm about 5'8", long brown hair, and I'm fat" and I can't help but grin
at the silence or sounds of shock on the other end.... egads! She's fat,
she *admits* it and she's *NOT* ashamed of it?!?!
Rubenesque runs a close second though.
Sherry L Anderson
Jeffrey Pikul - ACPS/W94 (jpi...@acs.ryerson.ca) wrote:
: : : I'm a bit concerned about the turn this thread has taken, especially
: : : after last night on the IRC. There, the idea came up that heavier
: : : a.s.g-xers might be unwilling to tingle, ^^^^^^^
: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: Well, I showed up. But I started tingling *long* before this issue
: ever came up; I hope that other heavyset would-be tinglers won't be
: discouraged by this.
To be quite honest, this thought had never crossed my mind. I've been
lurking for a while and a.s.g-xer's, for the most part, seem like pretty
cool people who were more concerned about what a person was like, than
what a person *looked* like..... and then this thread came up and now I'm
not so sure how I feel about a.s.g-x and a.s.g-xer's. I've read a lot of
the same old bullshit here lately... "fat people wouldn't be fat if
they'd just get off their lazy asses and quit shoving food in their
mouths".
*YAWN*
It's old and it's not accurate for most.
I'm not sure if I'd want to tingle anymore. Is it because I'm embarassed
about being 5'8" and 265lbs? Nope, not on your life.
But would I want to spend money to visit strangers who displayed the
above attitude and made a priori assumptions about me because of my weight?
Nope, not on your life. Got better things to do, thanks.
Maybe my first assumption about a.s.g-xer's was right, in which case, I'd
be happy to tingle.
Elizabeth Walkup
Kelly T. Conlon <con...@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca> wrote:
>
>Interestingly though, if you look at fat and thin characters in
>literature, more often than not thin people have been portrayed as
>diabolical and ruthless (eg. Cassius in "Julius Caesar", Ebeneezer
>Scrooge).
>
>Any comments from the Elizabethan scholars out there?
>
Not an Elizabethan comment by the usual meaning:
Wilkie Collins' Victorian mystery novel _The_Woman_in_White_ was,
I believe, the first or one of the first novels to have as its
cheif doer-of-evil a fat man with a jolly disposition.
-- Elizabeth
wal...@cs.washington.edu
Marco Anglesio
> awi...@ix.netcom.com writes:
> >
> > hey! i used to say that. as a matter of fact, i was at the national
> > gallery and thought to myself that i looked a little like that degas up
> > there with the curves and the very pink skin.
>
> There we go...I shall begin posing nude with grapes and ivy.
Who gets to paint, though ... <drool>
marco
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Marco Anglesio, Materials and Metallurgical Engineering, Queen's U |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| <3m...@jeff-lab.queensu.ca> | Caught between the bright lights/ and |
| <3m...@qlink.queensu.ca> | the far unlit unknown/ nowhere is the |
| <angl...@unixg.ubc.ca> | dreamer/ or the misfit so alone |
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Geenius at Wrok
> There we go...I shall begin posing nude with grapes and ivy.
.GIF! .GIF! .GIF!
--
Keith Ammann is gee...@evansville.net
DNRC Lord High Geenius and Minister for Vegetability
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
"Imagine a boot stamping on a human face -- forever."
-- George Orwell on the 1990s job market
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Dig my home page: http://www.evansville.net/~geenius/geenius.html
T-shirts for sale! E-mail me or see home page for details.
Geenius at Wrok
> Which leads to dieting/exercise. I gain slowly when my caloric intake goes
> above 2000 and I only lose if I consistently hold below 1200. The few
> surviving people who knew me when I stayed at 1200 for 6months will attest to
> the fact that it isn't worth it!
Which reminds me: I saw the coolest formula on my cereal box yesterday.
It shows you how to compute your metabolic rate and how many calories you
need to consume to maintain your present weight with no exercise ... the
upshot of it all is that to drop from X weight to Y weight, you need to
burn an extra (X - Y) x 13 calories per day or consume that same amount
less.
My favorite workout machine is the computerized treadmill. It beats the
hell out of a stationary bike, because on a bike, if you slack off, you
aren't punished for it, whereas a treadmill will dump you off. And it
tells you exactly how many calories you're consuming. Starting tonight,
I'm going to go to the gym at the hospital where my wife works and walk walk
walk 'til I've walked off 325 calories. And I'm going to do it every day.
Come on, 140, I know you're within reach ...
david s. broudy
(Jeffrey Pikul - ACPS/W94) wrote:
< Well, it is an issue. I come from a heavyset family who loves good food
< and leads a sedentary lifestyle. I was never good at sports as a kid
< (hi Eric), and was often harassed during gym class for it. Now I have a
< hard time dealing with the locker room of any gym.
Yo, twin. (tho I am 5'8" and 160)
< That's right, *locker* *room*.
<
< Ever been in a locker room where *you're* the only overweight person in
< a room where everyone else could model Calvins? It's damn intimidating,
< and keeps a lot of people away from the exercise they honestly need.
Gad, try it at a gym where 99% of the clientele are gay. It's bad enough
where the guys are hets; in this gym I feel like a side of meat undergoing
multiple close visual inspections and failing most of em.
< Jeffrey Pikul, will eat a pound of (good) kielbasa for food.
Ugh!
David, will eat a pound of crab sushi (no raw fish, thanks) for foos.
--
bro...@mizar.usc.edu -- http://wpc-4.usc.edu/ /=/
Will that be one lump, or two? \=\ /=/
Chantinelle
I'm not sure how it is with guys but speaking as a woman, I find numbers
when talking about weight to be completely misleading. For example, I
weigh right now somewhere between 140 and 145. I believe my ideal weight
to be somewhere between 130 and 135. No one I know would currently
describe me as fat or heavy; most still think of me as fairly thin, even
though I've slowly gained about 25 pounds over the 6 years I've been in
this town. But many people I've talked to via computer or on the phone,
after talking on the computer, visualize 145 lbs. as pretty heavy. I
actually had one moron on line (after insisting repeatedly that I tell
him my weight (what does it matter? we are online, we are never going to
meet....) I finally told him just to see what he would say. He said,
"Hmm. Kinda chunky for me." And even though I already thought he was a
fool and a jerk, I felt hurt and insulted. So the fool was me I guess.
Another anecdote along these lines....after a stressful period I
discovered that I had lost 10 lbs. without noticing. I mentioned it in
passing to my dad that I suddenly weighed 135 lbs. He did the math and
gasped, "You were up to 145 lbs????" yep, and you saw me in a bikini
while I was there, pops. Did you think i was fat? no, but he did when
he heard the numbers.
I've noticed too that people's perceptions of me as attractive or
unattractive have FAR more to do with my own feelings about myself than
my actual weight or even appearance. When I'm feeling good, I look good,
period. I found it amusing that last time I was home my mom and nana
were both commenting that I looked good, had I lost weight? Nope, I'd
gained some. But I was also having some of the best sex of my life and
feeling great. Since (good Catholics that they are) they probably don't
pick up on good-sex-vibes (or force themselves to ignore them if they do,
since I'm still officially not having sex since I'm not married), the
only language left to describe how I look is that of weight loss.
interesting, no?
**Chant
Jennifer Basil
: Sort of a tangent to this thread...
: I'm not sure how it is with guys but speaking as a woman, I find numbers
: when talking about weight to be completely misleading. For example, I
: weigh right now somewhere between 140 and 145. I believe my ideal weight
: to be somewhere between 130 and 135. No one I know would currently
: describe me as fat or heavy; most still think of me as fairly thin, even
: though I've slowly gained about 25 pounds over the 6 years I've been in
: this town. But many people I've talked to via computer or on the phone,
: after talking on the computer, visualize 145 lbs. as pretty heavy. I
: actually had one moron on line (after insisting repeatedly that I tell
: him my weight (what does it matter? we are online, we are never going to
: meet....) I finally told him just to see what he would say. He said,
: "Hmm. Kinda chunky for me." And even though I already thought he was a
: fool and a jerk, I felt hurt and insulted. So the fool was me I guess.
: Another anecdote along these lines....after a stressful period I
: discovered that I had lost 10 lbs. without noticing. I mentioned it in
: passing to my dad that I suddenly weighed 135 lbs. He did the math and
: gasped, "You were up to 145 lbs????" yep, and you saw me in a bikini
: while I was there, pops. Did you think i was fat? no, but he did when
: he heard the numbers.
You got it. I have met very few people who accurately guess weight in
women. I think the perception is that women who are short and considered
thin must weigh between 100 and 110. If you're under 5' and look
slender, why, you must weigh 99! If you're between 5'0 and 5'4" and
you're slender, you must weigh between 110 and 120! Over 5'4"? All
women over 5'4" who are 'slender' weigh 125! *All* of them! Amazing
isn't it? This comes from descriptions on TV and in novels, I think.
Not that some women don't fall into these categories. But some of
us are 'denser' physically than others. Last time I weighed 120,
I was on an IV. Egad!
Now I don't weigh myself, and find my weight is actually more stable
this way because I don't freak out over every 2 pound change (on
the rare occasions I weigh myself, it's pretty much the same, in other
words).
Jenny
--
Jennifer Basil (ba...@bio.bu.edu) Has angst, will travel.
"Gas smells awful;
nooses give;
guns aren't lawful;
You might as well live."
....Dorothy Parker
Jennifer Wise
> Sort of a tangent to this thread...
>
> I'm not sure how it is with guys but speaking as a woman, I find numbers
> when talking about weight to be completely misleading. For example, I
> weigh right now somewhere between 140 and 145. I believe my ideal weight
> to be somewhere between 130 and 135. No one I know would currently
> describe me as fat or heavy; most still think of me as fairly thin, even
> though I've slowly gained about 25 pounds over the 6 years I've been in
> this town. But many people I've talked to via computer or on the phone,
> after talking on the computer, visualize 145 lbs. as pretty heavy. I
I find this to be oh-so-very true. A number of years ago I was
chatting with a petite friend (who got entirely too much joy
out of being petite, but never mind..."My boyfriend *Loves* my
*little* jeans! He can't believe they're so LITTLE!"). At one
point she attempted to guess my weight (for those of you who
don't know already, I'm a tall one: 5'10). She was *30*
pounds *under*! SHe had no concept of how much weight we tall
folks can carry around...or what was *really* heavy and what
wasn't....
It's all relative....
Jenny
Geenius at Wrok
> Chantinelle (cmc...@larry.cc.emory.edu) wrote:
>
> : I'm not sure how it is with guys but speaking as a woman, I find numbers
> : when talking about weight to be completely misleading. For example, I
> : weigh right now somewhere between 140 and 145. I believe my ideal weight
> : to be somewhere between 130 and 135. No one I know would currently
> : describe me as fat or heavy; most still think of me as fairly thin, even
> : though I've slowly gained about 25 pounds over the 6 years I've been in
> : this town. But many people I've talked to via computer or on the phone,
> : after talking on the computer, visualize 145 lbs. as pretty heavy. I
> : actually had one moron on line (after insisting repeatedly that I tell
> : him my weight (what does it matter? we are online, we are never going to
> : meet....) I finally told him just to see what he would say. He said,
> : "Hmm. Kinda chunky for me." And even though I already thought he was a
> : fool and a jerk, I felt hurt and insulted. So the fool was me I guess.
>
> You got it. I have met very few people who accurately guess weight in
> women. I think the perception is that women who are short and considered
> thin must weigh between 100 and 110. If you're under 5' and look
> slender, why, you must weigh 99! If you're between 5'0 and 5'4" and
> you're slender, you must weigh between 110 and 120! Over 5'4"? All
> women over 5'4" who are 'slender' weigh 125! *All* of them! Amazing
> isn't it? This comes from descriptions on TV and in novels, I think.
Reality: Slender = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) < .75
Skeeeny = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) < .7
Anorexic = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) < .65
Legitimately Overweight = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) > .95
(men add .05
to these numbers)
Jennifer Basil
What? No "normal"? and what's the ^ indicate? ...I'll try this one
and see what it says. It makes no allowances for frame size or build.
(which makes a difference)
Jenny
--
Jennifer Basil (ba...@bio.bu.edu) Has angst, will travel.
"You live your life
like a canary in a coalmine!
You get so dizzy
even walking in a straight line.."
..The Police
Paul Johnson
>On Wed, 1 Feb 1995, Jennifer Wise wrote:
>
>> awi...@ix.netcom.com writes:
>> >
>> > hey! i used to say that. as a matter of fact, i was at the national
>> > gallery and thought to myself that i looked a little like that degas up
>> > there with the curves and the very pink skin.
>>
>> There we go...I shall begin posing nude with grapes and ivy.
>
>Who gets to paint, though ... <drool>
>
Paint?.........What?..........The kitchen?......Why would anyone want to do that?
Paul Johnson
Charlotte NC
Richard Patrick Larimore
>
>Another anecdote along these lines....after a stressful period I
>discovered that I had lost 10 lbs. without noticing. I mentioned it in
>passing to my dad that I suddenly weighed 135 lbs. He did the math and
>gasped, "You were up to 145 lbs????" yep, and you saw me in a bikini
>while I was there, pops. Did you think i was fat? no, but he did when
>he heard the numbers.
It seems to me that it's not the amount of weight that counts so much as
what it is and where. Suppose most of the extra ten pounds is muscle, which is
not only healthier than fat but less bulky per pound?
Piglet
Chantinelle
Organization: Emory University
Distribution:
Richard Patrick Larimore (r...@oregon.uoregon.edu) wrote:
: Piglet
It's NOT muscle I can tell you that. The only muscles I have that have
been getting worked out until very recently are those in my wrists and
fingers. But since I seem to have gained a bra size, at least some of
the weight has accumulated in a "socially acceptable" place. But really,
I believe a lot of it IS as (Jenny? Emily?) was saying, that the culture
has a defined set of numbers that someone who looks acceptably thin and
is a particular height *probably* weighs--and those numbers are quite
improbable.
For the record, I used Keith/Geenius' formula and i actually come up to
.97--so according to that I have some weight to lose. 130 comes up at
.87 which confirms my personal feeling that that weight is just about
right for me.
Also for the record I'm tired of feeling sluggish and not-my-best...so
I'm TRYING to eat a lil better (staying sane of course--total denial only
produces binges with me) and working out 3x a week. Could use some
advice from anyone who hates & despises exercise like me, who has found
something they love to do...
**Chant
William B Weil
: Skeeeny = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) < .7
: Anorexic = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) < .65
ouch.
i never even knew i was skeeeeny/(near)anorexic. guess i sleep-puke.
-bill(RandomPostMan doesn't like dining hall food :( )
and i think i'm still growing...
Dave Mooney
> There we go...I shall begin posing nude with grapes and ivy.
How To Tell That You're A Geek: I read that as 'posting nude' and thought
'cool! you too?'
dave.. on the net, nobody knows what you're wearing...
--
Dave Mooney | dog...@io.org | "The government is run by people who
CanterSiegelGreenCardArmenia | watch the Simpsons!" -- Joan L Brewer
Jason Kodish
>
>(Peter Dubuque) writes:
>>(Jason Kodish) writes:
>>
>>>Hmmm. I come up with my flames in the bathtub. Guess it's not the same....
>>
>>What the hell do you bathe in--gasoline?
Gasoline,napalm,and sodium nitrate.
>
>-dan snider
Jennifer Wise
> On Wed, 1 Feb 1995, Jennifer Wise wrote:
>
> > awi...@ix.netcom.com writes:
> > >
> > > hey! i used to say that. as a matter of fact, i was at the national
> > > gallery and thought to myself that i looked a little like that degas up
> > > there with the curves and the very pink skin.
> >
> > There we go...I shall begin posing nude with grapes and ivy.
>
> Who gets to paint, though ... <drool>
Jenny
(wondering what Keith Haring would have done with this...)
Brendan Perry
srkl...@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
> >
> >In article <79090509...@thwap.ve6mgs.ampr.ab.ca>>
jko...@thwap.ve6mgs.ampr.ab.ca (Jason Kodish) writes:
> >>
> >>
> >>Of course, there are all the chemicals they put in our water, and the
> >>fact that oftentimes water is drawn from lakes even the fish stay away from.
> >>( A glass of Lake Michigan?)
> >>
> >
> >Don't fuck with Lake Michigan, man... besides, it's not the lake, it's
> >the rivers that run into it (just ask those in Milwaukee). We reversed
So, is the Chicago River gonna be dyed green again this year for
St. Patty's Day? Or did they just leave it that same old kelly green
from last year's celebration?
<duck>
I once sawr a coppa' cuffing and hauling away two teens for jumping
into the lake across from Grant Park. 300,000 people there for the
Blues Fest and the only 'policing' I saw the cops doing was taking
away little kids for swimming in Buckingham Fountain and confiscating
demon likker from Blues Fans ('course you can still BUY it, from US,
for $3 a pop). Ah...fondly remembering the '88 Fest sponsored by
Old Style when ya could bring in a cold case inna cooler, sit on
the grass and be mellow all day in the park.
Oh, uh, physical appearance and obesity? Um, I'm 178cm, 72kg and I
look amazingly like David Broudy (at least his pic on WWW), sans glasses
and a little less red in the hair. I try not to be judgemental about
people's weights, but it's easy for me to say it's easy to be skinny.
I come from a very skinny family (my bro is 6'5", 175#). We eat lots
during holidays, but just simply don't eat much day-to-day. Plus, we
all lead active lives (ma sells furniture in a 1,000,000+ sq ft
showroom, so she must walk 5 miles a day. Dad DELIVERS furniture...
sleep sofas up 3 flights o' stairs in Philly row homes, I ride me
bike to work most days, bro runs 5 miles every morn. Me and bro have
the geeky desk jobs). I chock most of it up to the fact that I don't
have much of a sweet tooth, I actually LIKE quick and simple foods
(typical dinner: bowl of rice&beans, steamed broccoli w/salt-n-pepper,
maybe some cottage cheese), and I excercise periodically. Couldn't be
from all the good beer I drink ('fact, I got some Stout aging right
this second)...
I'm sorry, what was the point to this thread?
--
cheers,
Brendan Perry
Laura McMahon
>I've been reading this thread and thinking...
>
>*Bollocks* to the F-word, I'm not fat....I'm *Rubenesque*!!!
>
Yipee!,..I agree!,....about your comments about the F word,....*sigh*
If I were born int he time of Ruben,..I would be his *favorite* model...
*chuckle*
!surprise! it's raining in Seattle.
Richard Patrick Larimore
cmc...@larry.cc.emory.edu (Chantinelle) writes:
>: It seems to me that it's not the amount of weight that counts so much as
>: what it is and where. Suppose most of the extra ten pounds is muscle, which is
>: not only healthier than fat but less bulky per pound?
>It's NOT muscle I can tell you that. The only muscles I have that have
>been getting worked out until very recently are those in my wrists and
>fingers.
Sorry for the confusion. I wasn't talking about just you so much as agreeing
that you can't tell much from one raw number. If it's not muscle, it might be
bone density, or a "Rubenesque" figure, or broader shoulders, or more height,
or cellulite, or maybe you carry a whole lot in your pockets. :@) What someone
weighs tells me next to nothing about what his/her body looks like. More
information is needed.
>I believe a lot of it IS as (Jenny? Emily?) was saying, that the culture
>has a defined set of numbers that someone who looks acceptably thin and
>is a particular height *probably* weighs--and those numbers are quite
>improbable.
The culture is wrong again. Are you really surprised?
>Also for the record I'm tired of feeling sluggish and not-my-best...so
>I'm TRYING to eat a lil better (staying sane of course--total denial only
>produces binges with me) and working out 3x a week. Could use some
>advice from anyone who hates & despises exercise like me, who has found
>something they love to do...
I split a lot of wood. And I find that mixing up a variety of exercises,
including weight training and aerobic activity (running, bicycling,
stair-climber, etc) makes it more palatable. Some people like doing things in
groups for support.
The most important thing is that you do it at your own pace. Make progress
slowly at first, if it's difficult. And do what feels good for you, not what
is said to produce the kind of bodies they show on television. Other than that,
I'd say that paying reasonable attention to diet and exercise is doing just
fine. The only thing I might add to that is a book on the physical and
spiritual effects of fasting. I know people who fast once a week and claim it
does wonders for them.
Says Piglet
Richard Patrick Larimore
>
>: Reality: Slender = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) < .75
>: Skeeeny = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) < .7
>: Anorexic = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) < .65
>: Legitimately Overweight = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) > .95
>
>
Oh, good. One of our PHDs doesn't know what the ^ means either. Now I don't
feel so clueless. So what does it mean?
I presume "normal" is somewhere in the .8-ish range?
Asks Piglet!
Jennifer Basil
: >
: >: Reality: Slender = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) < .75
: >: Skeeeny = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) < .7
: >: Anorexic = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) < .65
: >: Legitimately Overweight = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) > .95
: >
: >
: >What? No "normal"? and what's the ^ indicate?
: Oh, good. One of our PHDs doesn't know what the ^ means either. Now I don't
: feel so clueless. So what does it mean?
Hopefully, it means 'to the 3rd' or cubed. At least, that gave me a number
I could deal with.
Blissfully ignorant,
Jenny
: I presume "normal" is somewhere in the .8-ish range?
Yeah, I just thought it was funny that it went from slender to legitimately
overweight!
Jenny
: Asks Piglet!
--
Jennifer Basil (ba...@bio.bu.edu) Has angst, will travel.
"You live your life
david s. broudy
< For the record, I used Keith/Geenius' formula and i actually come up to
< .97--so according to that I have some weight to lose. 130 comes up at
< .87 which confirms my personal feeling that that weight is just about
< right for me.
Hm, wondering if I did the math right, because I came up with .88 for
meself, which seems low for me.
Lessee, 160lbs / 5.66666667^3 = .879~ (I got 5.666667 from 5.[8/12] feet)
Yep. I still think I'm too chunky no matter what the numbers say. I get
.79 if I figure for 145lbs which is pretty much my ideal weight.
david s. broudy
pe...@lheavx.gsfc.nasa.gov (Brendan Perry) wrote:
< Oh, uh, physical appearance and obesity? Um, I'm 178cm, 72kg and I
< look amazingly like David Broudy (at least his pic on WWW), sans glasses
< and a little less red in the hair.
Couldja translate that into amurriken numbers, eh?
Heh. i got an evil twin who's also into old heaps. kewl!
William B Weil
: >
: >What? No "normal"? and what's the ^ indicate?
: Oh, good. One of our PHDs doesn't know what the ^ means either. Now
: I don't feel so clueless. So what does it mean?
cubed(power of three). i believe.
-says Bill!(RandomPostMan is taking too many damn
math courses for sanity to apply)
Timothy Kordas
> Hm, wondering if I did the math right, because I came up with .88 for
> meself, which seems low for me.
> Lessee, 160lbs / 5.66666667^3 = .879~ (I got 5.666667 from 5.[8/12] feet)
> Yep. I still think I'm too chunky no matter what the numbers say. I get
> .79 if I figure for 145lbs which is pretty much my ideal weight.
Keith did include "anorexic" as one of his categories...something
worth repeating is that thin != healthy.
I score 0.69...and I feel less healthy than I have in the past.
(last March I would have scored 0.62 and felt WAY worse)
-Tim
--
Timothy J. Kordas
http://bambi.eeap.cwru.edu/tjk/tim.html
Peter Dubuque
>srkl...@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>> >
>> >Don't fuck with Lake Michigan, man... besides, it's not the lake, it's
>> >the rivers that run into it (just ask those in Milwaukee). We reversed
>So, is the Chicago River gonna be dyed green again this year for
>St. Patty's Day? Or did they just leave it that same old kelly green
>from last year's celebration?
When I visited Steve last November, we walked around downtown, and the
Chicago River was the prettiest shade of turquoise you ever did see...it
was a kind of beauty you just never see anywhere in nature.
--
Peter F. Dubuque
dub...@tiac.net
Enemy of Reason(TM)
Jennifer Basil
: (Chantinelle) wrote:
: < For the record, I used Keith/Geenius' formula and i actually come up to
: < .97--so according to that I have some weight to lose. 130 comes up at
: < .87 which confirms my personal feeling that that weight is just about
: < right for me.
: Hm, wondering if I did the math right, because I came up with .88 for
: meself, which seems low for me.
: Lessee, 160lbs / 5.66666667^3 = .879~ (I got 5.666667 from 5.[8/12] feet)
Hey! We're the same height!
: Yep. I still think I'm too chunky no matter what the numbers say. I get
: .79 if I figure for 145lbs which is pretty much my ideal weight.
Hey, you look just nifty to me the way you are now! Anyway, glad to
see I did the math right. At first I *multiplied* by 3 and found out
I was an order of magnitude larger than overweight! Egad!
I didn't like that...so I tried cubed instead. *phew*
Jenny
Geenius at Wrok
> Geenius at Wrok (gee...@evansville.net) wrote:
>
> : Reality: Slender = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) < .75
> : Skeeeny = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) < .7
> : Anorexic = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) < .65
> : Legitimately Overweight = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) > .95
>
>
> What? No "normal"?
You big silly. Everything between slender and overweight is maximum
healthy. "Normal" is a grayish area that overlaps maximum healthy and
overweight (national average, alas, is about .95).
> and what's the ^ indicate?
^ means exponent. X ^ 3 is X cubed.
> ...I'll try this one
> and see what it says. It makes no allowances for frame size or build.
> (which makes a difference)
Well, I'd say anyone at less than .75 is by definition a "small frame."
If you want to tweak your numbers to reflect a small or large frame, go
another .1 either way.
Ronald Bruce Monroe Irvin
<cutting out Chantinelle's observations here>
>You got it. I have met very few people who accurately guess weight in
>women. I think the perception is that women who are short and considered
>thin must weigh between 100 and 110. If you're under 5' and look
>slender, why, you must weigh 99! If you're between 5'0 and 5'4" and
>you're slender, you must weigh between 110 and 120! Over 5'4"? All
>women over 5'4" who are 'slender' weigh 125! *All* of them! Amazing
>isn't it? This comes from descriptions on TV and in novels, I think.
Let's tone that down from *All* to *Most* My mother's about 5'8" and she
didn't get over 110 until she was in her forties. She spent a lot of time
in the 95-110 range, so now she feels "fat" at maybe 120.
I am not saying that this is a healthy thing. I did the 5'11" 128 pound
thing as a college freshman, but that was 70 pounds ago <groan>.
Trooper
feeling, not fat, but definitely over my safe weight
--
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necessarily represent those of UNC-Chapel Hill, OIT, or the SysOps.
-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Jennifer Basil
: > Geenius at Wrok (gee...@evansville.net) wrote:
: >
: > : Reality: Slender = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) < .75
: > : Skeeeny = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) < .7
: > : Anorexic = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) < .65
: > : Legitimately Overweight = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) > .95
: >
: >
: > What? No "normal"?
: You big silly. Everything between slender and overweight is maximum
: healthy. "Normal" is a grayish area that overlaps maximum healthy and
: overweight (national average, alas, is about .95).
D'oh! I was envisioning a scary continuum with slender followed by
overweight! Egad!
: > and what's the ^ indicate?
: ^ means exponent. X ^ 3 is X cubed.
Thank heavens....I tried it as 'times' first and found I was 10 times
beyond overweight. Egad part deux!
: > ...I'll try this one
: > and see what it says. It makes no allowances for frame size or build.
: > (which makes a difference)
: Well, I'd say anyone at less than .75 is by definition a "small frame."
: If you want to tweak your numbers to reflect a small or large frame, go
: another .1 either way.
My number is s'ok by me. Yay.
Jenny
: --
: Keith Ammann is gee...@evansville.net
: DNRC Lord High Geenius and Minister for Vegetability
: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
: "Imagine a boot stamping on a human face -- forever."
: -- George Orwell on the 1990s job market
: <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
: Dig my home page: http://www.evansville.net/~geenius/geenius.html
: T-shirts for sale! E-mail me or see home page for details.
Brian Upton
|>
|> Reality: Slender = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) < .75
|> Skeeeny = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) < .7
|> Anorexic = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) < .65
|> Legitimately Overweight = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) > .95
|>
|> (men add .05
|> to these numbers)
|>
Cool.
Who came up with this scale?
--
+-------------+------------------------------------------------------------+
| Brian Upton | "Books? Books? My god! You don't understand. They were far |
| Chapel Hill | too busy living first-hand for books. Books!" -J. March |
+-------------+------------------------------------------------------------+
Marco Anglesio
: >
: >What? No "normal"? and what's the ^ indicate?
: Oh, good. One of our PHDs doesn't know what the ^ means either. Now I don't
: feel so clueless. So what does it mean?
It's an alternate notation for a superscript 3 or exponent:
(height_in_feet)*(height_in_feet)*(height_in_feet)=(height_in_feet)^3
: I presume "normal" is somewhere in the .8-ish range?
I dunno ...
marco (0.9106, if you must know - pulled out my HP and figured it out).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Marco Anglesio, Materials and Metallurgical Engineering, Queen's U |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| <3m...@jeff-lab.queensu.ca> | Caught between the bright lights/ and |
| <3m...@qlink.queensu.ca> | the far unlit unknown/ nowhere is the |
| <angl...@unixg.ubc.ca> | dreamer/ or the misfit so alone |
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
ZZYZX
>!surprise! it's raining in Seattle.
!surprise! it's sunny in Las Cruces.
-David "ZZYZX" Steinberg (dste...@nmsu.edu) "Time for Timer"
**********************************************************************
*"It seem we all *"I can't believe I'm a junior and a *
* Live so close to that line * film major, when all I really *
*and so far from satisfaction." * wanted in this life was to marry a *
*-Joni Mitchell "Give me hope. * lobsterman and cook fish." *
*Give me hope." -Amy Ray * -a letter from Christie Searing *
**********************************************************************
Geenius at Wrok
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.950202125725.2949F-100000@world>,
> Geenius at Wrok <gee...@evansville.net> writes:
>
> |> Reality: Slender = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) < .75
> |> Skeeeny = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) < .7
> |> Anorexic = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) < .65
> |> Legitimately Overweight = Weight_in_Pounds / (Height_in_Feet ^ 3) > .95
> |>
> |> (men add .05
> |> to these numbers)
> |>
>
> Cool.
>
> Who came up with this scale?
I did. The only hard part was having the realization that among people
of identical build, weight is in direct proportion to height cubed. The
rest was empirically identifying how much each build weighed.
Thomas James
: Also for the record I'm tired of feeling sluggish and not-my-best...so
: I'm TRYING to eat a lil better (staying sane of course--total denial
only
: produces binges with me) and working out 3x a week. Could use some
: advice from anyone who hates & despises exercise like me, who has found
: something they love to do...
Well, it's not that I hate and despise exercise so much, it's just
that I'd rather do something else. :-)
You could try aerobics. The music makes it not so boring as some
things, and there's an instructor in the front of the room to provide
encouragement when you *really* don't feel like exerting yourself.
I won't say I'm 'converted', but I've been keeping this up better
than other things I've tried, and as a bonus, my wife tells me I'm a much
better dancer.
I guess the biggest minus would be the cost of the classes.
: **Chant
--
__________________________________________________
Tom James
tja...@emr1.emr.ca or (better) ja...@agg.emr.ca
amanda wilson
>
>Chantinelle (cmc...@larry.cc.emory.edu) wrote:
Could use some
>: advice from anyone who hates & despises exercise like me, who has
>: found something they love to do...
>
>Well, it's not that I hate and despise exercise so much, it's just
>that I'd rather do something else. :-)
>
>You could try aerobics. The music makes it not so boring as some
>things, and there's an instructor in the front of the room to provide
>encouragement when you *really* don't feel like exerting yourself.
speak for yourself! i find aerobic dance to be one of the most useless
forms of exercise there is! if you're unlucky enough to find yourself in
a room full of lycra-clad contortionists, sheesh!
the movements are sometimes hard to follow and can be hazardous to the
joints. if you're going to do aerobics, do low impact. that means keep
one foot on the floor at all times.
walking is good exercise. it's free, involves fresh air and requires
only a good pair of shoes. you go at your own pace and there are
magazines full of advice on how to go about it. if you want music, take
it along! there's an additional benefit for me: that walking tends to
jump-start my brain. better than coffee.
ok, not better than coffee, but it does the trick!
-- amanda (will not be walking tomorrow when it is scheduled to be 9
degrees with a brisk wind)
JuneLV
-Another anecdote along these lines....after a stressful period I
-discovered that I had lost 10 lbs. without noticing. I mentioned it in
-passing to my dad that I suddenly weighed 135 lbs. He did the math and
-gasped, "You were up to 145 lbs????" yep, and you saw me in a bikini
-while I was there, pops. Did you think i was fat? no, but he did when
-he heard the number
Many years and 30 pounds ago some guy asked me what I weighed. When I
told him 135, he said, "Really? You don't look that big." ('cuz I
wasn't). There's this weird perception that a woman who weighs more than
120 pounds is fat, even though evidence to the contrary is right before
one's eyes. Speaking for myself, I don't *feel* fat unless I a) see my
butt in a photograph or b) have to say the words, one sixty five.
June