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Darkfae  
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 More options Jul 1 2009, 1:23 pm
Newsgroups: alt.politics.libertarian, alt.politics.socialism.libertarian, alt.society.anarchy
From: "Darkfae" <dark...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 13:23:21 -0400
Local: Wed, Jul 1 2009 1:23 pm
Subject: Modern Anarchism
Nowadays, libertarian socialism is just another way to talk about anarchism,
or sometimes particular strains of anarchism (like mutualism). Libertarian
socialism is what modern day Libertarianism was at its inception, since the
anti-state socialists needed a way to distinguish themselves from the
pro-state Communists. However, over time, the original libertarian tendency
shifted right, and became adopted by capitalists. Now people who
self-identify as Libertarians generally consider themselves pro-capitalist
and pro-minimal state, though there are some classical libertarians who
identify as libertarian (like, for instance, many mutualists).

How did this shift happen? Well, libertarian socialism is considered a
synthesis of classical liberalism (belief in maximizing individual freedom,
now associated with the "free" market and capitalism) and socialist
rejection of capitalism. So modern-day Libertarianism developed by simply
emphasizing the classical liberal part and the rejecting the socialist part,
typically on the basis that capitalism is a better way to organize society
than socialism because it allows for greater freedom. In essence, modern day
Libertarians - especially those affiliated with party politics - adopt more
from classical liberalism than from classical libertarianism.

The best way to think of the libertarian left in contrast to the libertarian
right is to consider them both as anti-authoritarian strains of thought
(that is the "libertarian" part). The "left" or "right" comes in when
considering how society would be organized in a stateless (or, in the case
of Libertarians, minimal state) society. To make matters even more
complicated, there are pro-market, anti-capitalist, anti-state libertarians
who really defy left-right classification, but would probably be classed as
libertarian socialist, despite being pro-market. This is on the basis that
socialist organizational principles would naturally arise in a true free
market in a stateless society.

I hope that helps you somewhat. I realize it is kind of a vague answer, but
to answer your question more completely requires a deeper analysis of the
history of and relationship between libertarianism, liberalism, socialism,
and anarchism. In common usage, libertarian socialism just means anarchism,
but it tends to be used when you want to avoid the connotations of
"anarchism". I also like the term because it is more descriptive than just
"anarchism".

--
-Darkfae-

http://www.darkfae.net
http://www.pixelfaery.net


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The Master  
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 More options Jul 1 2009, 2:02 pm
Newsgroups: alt.politics.libertarian, alt.politics.socialism.libertarian, alt.society.anarchy
From: The Master <tar...@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam>
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2009 18:02:21 +0000
Local: Wed, Jul 1 2009 2:02 pm
Subject: Re: Modern Anarchism

On Wed, 1 Jul 2009, Darkfae wrote:
> To make matters even more
> complicated, there are pro-market, anti-capitalist, anti-state libertarians
> who really defy left-right classification, but would probably be classed as
> libertarian socialist, despite being pro-market. This is on the basis that
> socialist organizational principles would naturally arise in a true free
> market in a stateless society.

Just for clarification, would the above be in reference to minarchy and/or
free market anarchy?

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David Friedman  
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 More options Jul 1 2009, 3:12 pm
Newsgroups: alt.politics.libertarian, alt.politics.socialism.libertarian, alt.society.anarchy
From: David Friedman <d...@daviddfriedman.nopsam.com>
Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2009 12:12:05 -0700
Local: Wed, Jul 1 2009 3:12 pm
Subject: Re: Modern Anarchism
In article <h2g68f$17...@news.eternal-september.org>,

 "Darkfae" <dark...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In common usage, libertarian socialism just means anarchism,
> but it tends to be used when you want to avoid the connotations of
> "anarchism". I also like the term because it is more descriptive than just
> "anarchism".

Except that "socialism" is itself such an ambiguous term.

--
 http://www.daviddfriedman.com/ http://daviddfriedman.blogspot.com/
Author of
_Future Imperfect: Technology and Freedom in an Uncertain World_,
Cambridge University Press.


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Darkfae  
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 More options Jul 2 2009, 9:42 am
Newsgroups: alt.politics.libertarian, alt.politics.socialism.libertarian, alt.society.anarchy
From: "Darkfae" <dark...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2009 09:42:48 -0400
Local: Thurs, Jul 2 2009 9:42 am
Subject: Re: Modern Anarchism
Free market. "This is on the basis that socialist organizational principles
would naturally arise in a true free market in a stateless society."

"The Master" <tar...@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam> wrote in message

news:Pine.NEB.4.64.0907011758310.1686@sdf.lonestar.org...


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