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nightlight  
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 More options Apr 15 2007, 10:55 am
Newsgroups: alt.smokers
From: nightlight <nightlight.s...@skip.omegapoint.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 09:55:18 -0500
Local: Sun, Apr 15 2007 10:55 am
Subject: Science of little known benefits of smoking
There is nice article (along with a discussion) about some little known
health benefits of smoking, reviewing the pharmaceutial industry
research, done quietly and seriously at the hard science level (in sharp
contrast with their usual overpublicized antismoking "science"), seeking
to replicate, without much success so far, some of these benefits.

http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=169&t=15125&st=0&#...

The above research also illustrates the real motive$ of the Big Pharma,
which is the chief sponsor ("investing" over a billion a year in USA
alone) of antismoking "science", "grass roots" antismoking
organizations, smoking bans and taxes... -- the nicotine replacement and
other cessation "therapies" are relatively minor component of their motives.

Followup discussions on the above article:

Dopamine aspect of those benefits
http://speakeasyforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/173601742/m/2391082291?r...
http://speakeasyforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/173601742/m/2391082291?r...
Alzheimer's: 10x reduced in smokers (age matched comparisons)
http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=169&t=15124&st=0&#...
Parkinson's: 12x reduced in smokers (age matched comparisons)
http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=169&t=15125&st=0&#...

Does smoking cause lung cancers? (No)
http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=169&t=15125&st=0&#...
http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=169&t=15125&st=0&#...
Bogus animal experiment debunked (on smoking & cancers)
http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=169&t=15125&st=0&#...

What about mutations caused by smoking?
http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=169&t=15125&st=0&#...


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Discussion subject changed to "Dead Smokers = little known benefits of smoking" by „ UltraMan „
„ UltraMan „  
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 More options Apr 15 2007, 9:56 pm
Newsgroups: alt.smokers, alt.smokers.cigars, alt.smokers.pipes, can.talk.smoking
From: "„ UltraMan „" <ul...@man.jp>
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 19:56:37 -0600
Local: Sun, Apr 15 2007 9:56 pm
Subject: Re: Dead Smokers = little known benefits of smoking


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Discussion subject changed to "Science of little known benefits of smoking" by nightlight
nightlight  
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 More options Apr 15 2007, 11:26 pm
Newsgroups: alt.smokers
From: nightlight <nightlight.s...@skip.omegapoint.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 22:26:02 -0500
Local: Sun, Apr 15 2007 11:26 pm
Subject: Re: Science of little known benefits of smoking
== Potential Therapeutic Applications of Nicotine and Nicotine Analogues
== SRNT Vol 1, No 4, 1995 [1]
John Baron (Dartmouth Medical School), Edward Levin (Duke University
Medical Center), Alexandra Potter and Paul Newhouse (University of Vermont)

Cigarette smoking has a well-deserved bad reputation; it is among the
leading causes of mortality and morbidity throughout the world, largely
because of its strong effects on the risk of cancer, cardiovascular
disease, and chronic lung disease. Nevertheless, nicotine is one of the
most widely used drugs in the world, most commonly by chewing the leaves
or inhaling the smoke from the leaves of a plant that synthesizes
nicotine, tobacco. In spite of health warnings, hundreds of millions of
people continue to use tobacco.

Why is tobacco so widely used? Addiction to nicotine is a common
explanation for the persistence of nicotine use, once established.
Because nicotine has multiple neural and functional effects, however,
the simple addiction model may be too narrow to account for nicotine use.

A multifactorial model including a variety of nicotine effects, such as

* improved attentiveness and
* memory,
* quickened reaction time,
* reduced appetite, and
* lessening of anxiety and
* stress,

may be needed to explain why the drug is so widely sought after. These
effects also suggest possible therapeutic uses of nicotine when
delivered without hazardous compounds present in tobacco tar, as well as
of novel nicotinic ligands.

For example, there is evidence to suggest that these agents may be
useful in preventing or treating a wide variety of central nervous
system (CNS) disorders, including

* Parkinson’s disease,
* Alzheimer’s disease,
* attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder, and possibly
* Tourette’s syndrome;

other conditions for which nicotinic agents could theoretically be
helpful include

* obesity,
* depression, and
* anxiety.

In addition to its effects on CNS disorders and functioning, cigarette
smoke seems to exert a protective or beneficial influence on some

* immunological and
* inflammatory disorders and on certain

* hormone-related and
* reproductive problems.

Although the moiety in cigarette smoking that underlies the effect of
smoking on immunological or inflammatory disturbances is not clear,
there are indications that it may be at least in part related to
nicotine. If so, a role for nicotine therapy for those disorders could
usefully be investigated. For the hormone-related disorders, the effects
of smoking may well not be due to nicotine.

This article will highlight recent work examining the epidemiological
and clinical evidence for the inverse association between cigarette
smoking and a variety of disorders and review what is known about the
mechanisms underlying these relationships. For a number of these
diseases, the potential therapeutic value of nicotinic agents represents
a particularly promising area of research. Even for conditions for which
the smoke components responsible for the beneficial effects are unknown
and/or unlikely to be nicotine, a better understanding of the
relationship with smoking may help to clarify the etiology and suggest
treatments and preventive measures that will likely be far safer than
cigarettes.

Central nervous system functioning

Mental functioning in nonimpaired individuals. Smoking may affect CNS
performance in non-diseased individuals. Smoking or nicotine clearly
ameliorates the impairments associated with nicotine withdrawal; among
smokers, cigarettes seem to provide modest improvements in vigilance and
information processing, facilitation of some motor responses, and
perhaps enhancement of memory. The use of smokers in much of the
cognitive research has necessarily involved individuals with chronic
nicotine exposure; this may well have played a role in the effects
observed through withdrawal, tolerance or changes in receptors.
Nonetheless, there are data suggesting that non-smokers may experience
nicotine-related benefits in performance and information processing.
Consistent with these findings, studies in animals have indicated that
nicotine may improve learning and memory, although some investigations
have also shown evidence of nicotine-associated impairments.

Parkinson’s disease

An inverse association between smoking and Parkinson’s disease (PD) is
well established; ever smokers have about half the risk of never
smokers. The association is not explained by defects in study design or
analysis, although the possibility that individuals destined to be at
high risk for Parkinson’s disease have an aversion to smoking has not
been completely excluded.

Nicotine is thought to activate the nigrostriatal dopaminergic pathway
and increase the release of dopamine in the striatum. Smoking or
nicotine can reduce drug-induced parkinsonism, ameliorate Tourette’s
syndrome, and neuroleptic tardive dyskinesia, effects that all point to
a substantial impact of nicotine on the dopaminergic motor systems.
Chronic nicotine dosing has also been shown to protect against
degeneration of central dopamine neurons induced by mechanical lesions.
Thus, the positive effects of nicotine on the movement disorders of PD
are not surprising.

Other human and animal evidence also support a protective effect:
Cigarette smoke or nicotine can ameliorate experimental parkinsonism in
rodents.9,10 Two case studies by Fagerstrom and colleagues using
nicotine gum and nicotine patch demonstrated diminished bradykinesia and
increased energy in one patient, and diminished tremor and disorganized
thinking in the other.11 Case studies by Ishikawa and Miyatake show
reduced tremor, rigidity, bradykinesia, and gait disturbances which
lasted 10-30 minutes after cigarette smoking in 6 patients with early
onset PD.12

Alzheimer’s disease

The epidemiological data regarding a possible inverse association
between cigarette smoking and Alzheimer’s dementia (AD) is certainly
suggestive, although less compelling than that for PD.13 Deficits in
short- and long-term memory, impaired attention, liberal response bias,
and slowing of reaction times are hallmarks of the dementing picture
seen in AD.

Nicotine has also been found in various studies to nicotine improve
attentiveness, memory or learning in patients with Alzheimer’s
disease.14-17 These effects may be related to direct nicotinic
stimulation, which may be useful because Alzheimer’s patients have been
consistently found to have decreased numbers of nicotinic receptors
compared with age-matched controls.18-23

The potential effects of the loss of these receptors was examined by
administering the nicotinic antagonist mecamylamine to young and elderly
normals, AD and PD patients. Mecamylamine produced a dose-related
impairment in acquisition of both verbal and non-verbal information,
slowing of reaction times, and liberalizing of response bias.24 PD
patients did not show the sensitivity that AD patients did, despite a
prior finding that PD patients also show loss of nicotinic receptors.
Studies with intravenous nicotine in AD patients have shown that
nicotine can improve cognitive function in many of these same cognitive
domains with a dose-related decline in errors on verbal learning tasks
and increase in long-term recall.25,26 These results suggest that
nicotinic modulation may alleviate cognitive impairments in various
dementing disorders which show loss of nicotinic receptors.

Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD)

Individuals diagnosed as having ADHD also have higher rates of cigarette
smoking than the general population.27 Nicotine administration has been
shown to improve attentiveness, and nicotine also promotes the release
of dopamine as does current pharmacologic treatments of ADHD. A study by
Levin and colleagues showed significant reduction in reaction time,
reaction time variability, and increased accuracy on several cognitive
tasks with nicotine administration in 11 adults diagnosed with ADHD.28
Additionally, these subjects rated themselves as having significantly
more vigor than when they were administered placebo. Further studies are
continuing with chronic administration. Currently used treatments,
methylphenidate, amphetamine and pemoline have this mechanism of action.

Tourette’s syndrome

Tourette’s (TS) is a disorder characterized by multiple motor and vocal
tics. Some patients with TS do not fully respond to standard treatments
and/or experience significant side effects with high doses of
neuroleptics. Animal studies have found that nicotine dramatically
potentiated the cataleptic effects of neuroleptics, while not producing
these effects when administered alone.29 These studies have lead to open
trials in adults and children to examine the possible benefit of augment
nicotine treatment. Administration of nicotine gum or patch to patients
showing incomplete responses to haloperidol produced dramatic relief of
symptoms as soon as 20 minutes after administration. Improvement was
seen in both the frequency and severity of motor and vocal tics as well
as improved concentration and attention.

Preliminary studies by Sanberg and co-workers have found transdermal
nicotine patches to be effective in reducing tic frequency in Tourette’s
syndrome.30,31 Nicotine significantly facilitates the effectiveness of
haloperidol and other dopamine receptor blockers which are the usual
treatment for this disorder. This effect of nicotine is paradoxical
since it causes dopamine release. Sanberg and coworkers have
hypothesized that nicotine-induced GABA release in the striatum may be
important for its effectiveness in Tourette’s syndrome. Unexpectedly,
some patients showed sustained improvement in symptoms after a single
exposure to nicotine, with suppression of symptoms lasting up to several
weeks.32

Schizophrenia

Nearly 90% of schizophrenics ...

read more »


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Discussion subject changed to "DUMB TROLLS = KNOW Little of anthing" by jack_meho...@yahoo.com
jack_meho...@yahoo.com  
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 More options Apr 15 2007, 10:44 pm
Newsgroups: alt.smokers
From: Jack_Meho...@yahoo.com
Date: 15 Apr 2007 19:44:39 -0700
Local: Sun, Apr 15 2007 10:44 pm
Subject: Re: DUMB TROLLS = KNOW Little of anthing
On Apr 15, 9:56 pm, "„ UltraMan „" <u...@man.jp> wrote:

A Smart troll wouldn't make claims of poor health or bad effects of
smoking
right behind this post.

** Smoker Kurt Vonnegut Dies **

NEW YORK (AP) -- Kurt Vonnegut, the satirical novelist who captured
the
absurdity of war and questioned the advances of science in darkly
humorous
works such as "Slaughterhouse-Five" and "Cat's Cradle," died
Wednesday. He
was 84.

Vonnegut, who often marveled that he had lived so long despite his
lifelong
smoking habit, had suffered brain injuries after a fall at his
Manhattan
home weeks ago, said his wife, photographer Jill Krementz.

Only an Idiot could see fit to do that.

"„ UltraMan „" <===== SIGN of an IDIOT
individual.net

Trolling's no good, I know you want to try,
but I won't let you....

Jack Mehough


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Discussion subject changed to "Science of little known benefits of smoking" by crau...@gmail.com
crau...@gmail.com  
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 More options Apr 16 2007, 5:10 am
Newsgroups: alt.smokers
From: crau...@gmail.com
Date: 16 Apr 2007 02:10:45 -0700
Local: Mon, Apr 16 2007 5:10 am
Subject: Re: Science of little known benefits of smoking
Thanks for links Nightlight, especially the new stuff on imminst.org.
Your writing, reasoning, and knowledge on this subject is of the
highest quality.  Please continue posting links to your debates on
other sites.  I regularly search alt.smokers and speakeasyforum for
your stuff.

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Discussion subject changed to "Dead Smokers = little known benefits of smoking" by Trellane
Trellane  
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 More options Apr 16 2007, 11:25 am
Newsgroups: alt.smokers, alt.smokers.cigars, alt.smokers.pipes, can.talk.smoking
From: Trellane <squ...@gothos.org>
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:25:13 GMT
Local: Mon, Apr 16 2007 11:25 am
Subject: Re: Dead Smokers = little known benefits of smoking

„ UltraMan „ wrote:

Ask this man who knows poxie very well what his real name is:

Daryl Hunt

dh...@i70west.com

1-888-271-9378


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_ Prof. Jonez _  
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 More options Apr 16 2007, 11:36 am
Newsgroups: alt.smokers, alt.smokers.cigars, alt.smokers.pipes, can.talk.smoking, us.military.army
From: "_ Prof. Jonez _" <thep...@jonez.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:36:37 -0600
Local: Mon, Apr 16 2007 11:36 am
Subject: Re: Dead Smokers = little known benefits of smoking

Trellane wrote:
> „ UltraMan „ wrote:

> Ask this man who knows poxie very well what his real name is:

> Daryl Hunt

> dh...@i70west.com

> 1-888-271-9378

You've been sucking his cock for years and he still
won't tell you, what's that say about his opinion of
your character ? ...you nym-changing lowlife child-molesting scumbag.

Trellane = dejaQ = radium ant farm = Colossus = Len Tropy = thundercrow =
Phantom 309 =
sam bam = King Samuel et. al.

From: Phantom 309 (a.k.a Sam Bam) wrote:
<3glne.117227$Yr4.93...@fe07.n­ews.easynews.com>

"No, on your knees child - NOW!!!!!!!
You will be my little slut puppy. I will have you
down on your knees, willing to suck cock or a strap on."


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Trellane  
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 More options Apr 16 2007, 12:01 pm
Newsgroups: alt.smokers, alt.smokers.cigars, alt.smokers.pipes, can.talk.smoking, us.military.army
From: Trellane <squ...@gothos.org>
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 16:01:41 GMT
Local: Mon, Apr 16 2007 12:01 pm
Subject: Re: Dead Smokers = little known benefits of smoking
_ Prof. Jonez _ wrote:

> Trellane wrote:
>> „ UltraMan „ wrote:

>> Ask this man who knows poxie very well what his real name is:

>> Daryl Hunt

>> dh...@i70west.com

>> 1-888-271-9378

> You've been sucking his cock

Shaddup, forger, your days here are numbered.

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_ Prof. Jonez _  
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 More options Apr 16 2007, 12:34 pm
Newsgroups: alt.smokers, alt.smokers.cigars, alt.smokers.pipes, can.talk.smoking, us.military.army
From: "_ Prof. Jonez _" <thep...@jonez.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:34:30 -0600
Local: Mon, Apr 16 2007 12:34 pm
Subject: Re: Dead Smokers = little known benefits of smoking

You repeating your posts from 1996 ?

You've been sucking his cock for years and he still
won't tell you, what's that say about his opinion of
your character ? ...you nym-changing lowlife child-molesting scumbag.

Trellane = dejaQ = radium ant farm = Colossus = Len Tropy = thundercrow =
Phantom 309 =
sam bam = King Samuel et. al.

From: Phantom 309 (a.k.a Sam Bam) wrote:
<3glne.117227$Yr4.93...@fe07.n­ews.easynews.com>

"No, on your knees child - NOW!!!!!!!
You will be my little slut puppy. I will have you
down on your knees, willing to suck cock or a strap on."


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Trellane  
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 More options Apr 16 2007, 2:52 pm
Newsgroups: alt.smokers, alt.smokers.cigars, alt.smokers.pipes, can.talk.smoking, us.military.army
From: Trellane <squ...@gothos.org>
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:52:52 GMT
Local: Mon, Apr 16 2007 2:52 pm
Subject: Re: Dead Smokers = little known benefits of smoking
_ Prof. Jonez _ wrote:

You think Daryl will cover for you indefinitely?

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_ Prof. Jonez _  
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 More options Apr 16 2007, 3:20 pm
Newsgroups: alt.smokers, alt.smokers.cigars, alt.smokers.pipes, can.talk.smoking, us.military.army
From: "_ Prof. Jonez _" <thep...@jonez.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 13:20:08 -0600
Local: Mon, Apr 16 2007 3:20 pm
Subject: Re: Dead Smokers = little known benefits of smoking

Another 10 years at least, you lowlife child-molesting pedophile scumbag.

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Trellane  
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 More options Apr 16 2007, 3:58 pm
Newsgroups: alt.smokers, alt.smokers.cigars, alt.smokers.pipes, can.talk.smoking, us.military.army
From: Trellane <squ...@gothos.org>
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 19:58:06 GMT
Local: Mon, Apr 16 2007 3:58 pm
Subject: Re: Dead Smokers = little known benefits of smoking
_ Prof. Jonez _ wrote:

I wouldn't bet on it.

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_ Prof. Jonez _  
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 More options Apr 16 2007, 4:02 pm
Newsgroups: alt.smokers, alt.smokers.cigars, alt.smokers.pipes, can.talk.smoking, us.military.army
From: "_ Prof. Jonez _" <thep...@jonez.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 14:02:17 -0600
Local: Mon, Apr 16 2007 4:02 pm
Subject: Re: Dead Smokers = little known benefits of smoking

That's what you said 10 years ago, pedophile scumbag.

Trellane = dejaQ = radium ant farm = Colossus = Len Tropy = thundercrow =
Phantom 309 = sam bam = King Samuel et. al.

From: Phantom 309 (a.k.a Sam Bam) wrote:
<3glne.117227$Yr4.93...@fe07.n­ews.easynews.com>

"No, on your knees child - NOW!!!!!!!
You will be my little slut puppy. I will have you
down on your knees, willing to suck cock or a strap on."


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Trellane  
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 More options Apr 16 2007, 4:30 pm
Newsgroups: alt.smokers, alt.smokers.cigars, alt.smokers.pipes, can.talk.smoking, us.military.army
From: Trellane <squ...@gothos.org>
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 20:30:57 GMT
Local: Mon, Apr 16 2007 4:30 pm
Subject: Re: Dead Smokers = little known benefits of smoking
_ Prof. Jonez _ wrote:

>>>>>>>> Ask this man who knows poxie very well what his real name is:

>>>>>>>> Daryl Hunt

>>>>>>>> dh...@i70west.com

>>>>>>>> 1-888-271-9378
>>>>>>> You've been sucking his cock
>>>>>> Shaddup, forger, your days here are numbered.
>>>>> You repeating your posts from 1996 ?
>>>> You think Daryl will cover for you indefinitely?
>>> Another 10 years at least,
>> I wouldn't bet on it.

> That's what you said 10 years ago,

Nope, I said no such thing 10 years ago, you lie again.

I wonder if Eric Ross wants to talk.


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_ Prof. Jonez _  
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 More options Apr 16 2007, 5:18 pm
Newsgroups: alt.smokers, alt.smokers.cigars, alt.smokers.pipes, can.talk.smoking, us.military.army
From: "_ Prof. Jonez _" <thep...@jonez.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:18:59 -0600
Local: Mon, Apr 16 2007 5:18 pm
Subject: Re: Dead Smokers = little known benefits of smoking

Trellane = dejaQ = radium ant farm = Colossus = Len Tropy = thundercrow =
Phantom 309 = sam bam = King Samuel et. al.

From: Phantom 309 (a.k.a Sam Bam) wrote:
<3glne.117227$Yr4.93...@fe07.n­ews.easynews.com>

"No, on your knees child - NOW!!!!!!!
You will be my little slut puppy. I will have you
down on your knees, willing to suck cock or a strap on."

> I wonder if Eric Ross wants to talk.

After you wrongfully slandered him for the last 8 years in spite
of being told repeatedly of your errors ...?

Sure, he'd probably be as willing to help a gutless cowardly fascist
weasel like you as Daryl would be, you repugnant piece of shit ...


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Trellane  
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 More options Apr 16 2007, 5:34 pm
Newsgroups: alt.smokers, alt.smokers.cigars, alt.smokers.pipes, can.talk.smoking, us.military.army
From: Trellane <squ...@gothos.org>
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 21:34:09 GMT
Local: Mon, Apr 16 2007 5:34 pm
Subject: Re: Dead Smokers = little known benefits of smoking
_ Prof. Jonez _ wrote:

> Trellane wrote:
>> I wonder if Eric Ross wants to talk.

> After you wrongfully slandered him

After you reposted his ads and impersonated him...

You're almost done here, I can sense it.


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_ Prof. Jonez _  
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 More options Apr 16 2007, 5:37 pm
Newsgroups: alt.smokers, alt.smokers.cigars, alt.smokers.pipes, can.talk.smoking, us.military.army
From: "_ Prof. Jonez _" <thep...@jonez.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:37:30 -0600
Local: Mon, Apr 16 2007 5:37 pm
Subject: Re: Dead Smokers = little known benefits of smoking

Trellane wrote:
> _ Prof. Jonez _ wrote:
>> Trellane wrote:

>>> I wonder if Eric Ross wants to talk.

>> After you wrongfully slandered him

> After you reposted his ads and impersonated him...

Never happened, you pathetic criminal asswipe.

> You're almost done here, I can sense it.

You said that 10 years ago, you pedophile scumbag.

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Trellane  
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 More options Apr 16 2007, 6:15 pm
Newsgroups: alt.smokers, alt.smokers.cigars, alt.smokers.pipes, can.talk.smoking, us.military.army
From: Trellane <squ...@gothos.org>
Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:15:45 GMT
Local: Mon, Apr 16 2007 6:15 pm
Subject: Re: Dead Smokers = little known benefits of smoking
_ Prof. Jonez _ wrote:

> Trellane wrote:
>> _ Prof. Jonez _ wrote:
>>> Trellane wrote:
>>>> I wonder if Eric Ross wants to talk.
>>> After you wrongfully slandered him
>> After you reposted his ads and impersonated him...

> Never happened,

Oh my, archive time:

http://groups.google.com/group/us.military.army/browse_thread/thread/...


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bazuka...@hotmail.com  
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 More options Apr 16 2007, 6:33 pm
Newsgroups: alt.smokers, alt.smokers.cigars, alt.smokers.pipes, can.talk.smoking, us.military.army
From: bazuka...@hotmail.com
Date: 16 Apr 2007 15:33:48 -0700
Local: Mon, Apr 16 2007 6:33 pm
Subject: Re: Dead Smokers = little known benefits of smoking
On Apr 16, 6:15 pm, Trellane <squ...@gothos.org> wrote:
> _ Prof. Jonez _ wrote:

> > Trellane wrote:
> >> _ Prof. Jonez _ wrote:
> >>> Trellane wrote:
> >>>> I wonder if Eric Ross wants to talk.
> >>> After you wrongfully slandered him
> >> After you reposted his ads and impersonated him...

> > Never happened,

> Oh my, archive time:

> http://groups.google.com/group/us.military.army/browse_thread/thread/...

FROM THE FAV, 39 YRS OLD.

YOU GOT TO LOVE THE WATER IN NYC.

MAGICAL YOUTH INSTALLING.

http://a237.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/00749/63/24/749474236_l.jpg


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Discussion subject changed to "Science of little known benefits of smoking" by nightlight
nightlight  
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 More options Apr 17 2007, 10:59 am
Newsgroups: alt.smokers
From: nightlight <nightlight.s...@skip.omegapoint.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 09:59:05 -0500
Local: Tues, Apr 17 2007 10:59 am
Subject: Re: Science of little known benefits of smoking

crau...@gmail.com wrote:

> Your writing, reasoning, and knowledge on this subject is of the
> highest quality.  Please continue posting links to your debates on
> other sites.  I regularly search alt.smokers and speakeasyforum for
> your stuff.

Thanks. There were few more posts in that thread, including a nice
example of pharmaceutical company making drugs that compete with
tobacco, while churning antismoking "science":

Pharma clawing (lamely) at tobacco:
http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=169&t=15125&st=20&...

Advantages of tobacco smoking vs selegiline+nicotine patches
http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=169&t=15125&st=20&...

Soldiers and smoking
http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=169&t=15125&st=20&...

New European chess champ -- cigarette and a big, happy smile
http://speakeasyforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/866605742/m/2441087591


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crau...@gmail.com  
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 More options Apr 19 2007, 2:51 am
Newsgroups: alt.smokers
From: crau...@gmail.com
Date: 18 Apr 2007 23:51:08 -0700
Local: Thurs, Apr 19 2007 2:51 am
Subject: Re: Science of little known benefits of smoking
On Apr 17, 8:59 am, nightlight <nightlight.s...@skip.omegapoint.com>
wrote:

> Thanks. There were few more posts in that thread, including a nice
> example of pharmaceutical company making drugs that compete with
> tobacco, while churning antismoking "science":

Thanks.  I've been following the thread from start to finish.  Your
final posts on 18 Apr 2007 on imminst.org are extremely cogent.  (I'm
a logician by trade, and a smoker too, so you can imagine my
interest.)

It is interesting that cnorwood's penultimate post ends with this:

"Others and yourself can do what you want, but with the evidence I
have seen on smoking and heart disease and AGEs, I will keep away. It
may be that I require a lower threshold of evidence before I reject
something as too risky."

http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?s=&act=ST&f=169&t=15125&st=40&...

This remark embodies a gross misrepresentation of your arguments.  For
you showed *not* that the evidence from that study is flawed to some
or other degree, but rather, that it is *worthless* for its intended
purpose.  Furthermore, your discussion of the relative merits of H1
and H2 showed that, in light of the evidence under consideration, it
is more probable that smoking is *protective* in this context.

Thus, in the absence of further counter-argument, the inevitable
conclusion is that it is *norwood* who is engaging in the risky
behavior, i.e., the risky behavior of *not* smoking.

norwood's remark quoted above *should* have been written like this:

"It may be that I require a HIGHER threshold of evidence before I
reject something as too risky."


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