What's the story on Barling pipes?
Tony Coronado
give me alittle more information on these pipes? I understand that they
are classified into three eras (transitional, pretransitional, and
posttransitional). How are they as a whole? Are new Barlings any good?
Are they oil-cured? Why are pre-trans Barlings so collectible?
Tony.
--
GEEZ I wish I could care! Happy puffing anyway!
-Mary from ASP
Mike Rothenberg
the old Barlings were great pipes, the current ones are not in the
same league.
The Piperack
"Mike Rothenberg" <rothe...@occmha.org> wrote in message
news:9afb6c72.02021...@posting.google.com...
> Mike Lindner can give you the complete history. I'll just say that
> the old Barlings were great pipes, the current ones are not in the
> same league.
Well... I can give a partial history.
Pre-, um, pre-1962 (I think) were the pre-transitional pieces. Like almost
every brand, I have had excellent smokers and so-so smokers. I can't say I
have had a bad pre-trans smoker. They were made from Algerian briar IIRC,
air-cured for years. Workmanship was a little under Dunhill for the
timeframe, except pre-war Barling pieces which were definitely on par with
Dunnie. Something seemed to have slipped in the factory around 1950 I would
say. I'm not saying this to incite flames; rather, in my experience of
looking and collecting unsmoked examples from Dunhill, Barling, Sasieni, GBD
and others - and I mean old pieces - I have seen certain things that didn't
really rock my world on the Barlings from the 1950's and early 1960's.
Stuff like rough-finished bowl interiors, stain drips, poor stem stamping,
ill-fitting shank/stem junctions, and the like. These are things that for
the most part are disguised or completely eliminated in a well-smoked estate
pipe, but I firmly believe that if quality control would let some things
out, they would probably let more out. We just haven't seen it because
there are so few unsmoked pieces out there. Either that, or the average
smoker wouldn't care if he saw these things on his new Barling. Dunhills
were more money and at that time in pipesmoking history, really did set the
benchmark.
I will say that when a pre-trans Barling is on its game, there is little
that can touch it. When they're good, they're GREAT. When they're bad,
they're still pretty good. Kind of like that saying about sex. <g>
Okay, so, somewhere around 1962 or thereabouts, the company was sold to what
we now refer to as the "transition" company. Initially, the transition
company made so many changes to nomenclature that frankly you need a
doctorate to follow it all. But basically, right after the sale of the
company, the first thing that was done was that a numbering system was put
in place that made a little more sense. First digit is size, next three are
shape number. So for example 3374, 4374, and 5374 were all the same shape,
just three different sizes. Sizes started at "2" and went up to "6"
followed by King. This loosely followed the old M, L, EL, EXEL, EXEXEL, G
sizing system.
In addition, the transition company switched over to a "Barlings" in script
for the shank nomenclature (instead of the block "BARLING'S arched over
"MAKE".) However, you will occasionally see pieces that are stamped with a
shape number like 6409 with the arched BARLING'S MAKE. For a little while,
the transition company used a very small BARLING'S MAKE stamp from before
the war, along with their new shape numbers. So one might think this is a
pre-trans piece, and certainly it was made from the same old stockpile of
wood. But I'm not sure if it's a pipe made by the pre-trans company and
finished by the transition company... or if it's a trans. You will also
occasionally find a pipe that has two shape numbers, an obvious
pre-transition number (and corresponding pre-trans nomenclature) as well as
a post-trans 4-digit shape number. These are true pre-transition pieces
that were completed and in the inventory of Barling when the company was
sold to the transition company. They were restamped by the new company.
(To further complicate matters, Barling used to sell their pipes to various
shops, and would stamp the shop's name on the pipe. These were older
pieces, from the 1950's or earlier, and there was one shop in particular
which I believe stamped their own shape numbers on the pipe. That shop was
JJ Fox. I have seen soooo many examples of pipes that had nomenclature that
is a *dead ringer* for pre-war to 1950's with the exception of a four digit
shape number like 3142. Transition piece? I don't think so. There are too
many other extenuating circumstances to assign it to that timeframe.)
So in addition to all that, the transition company made some other
changes... they dropped the "EXEL" size indication (as this was redundant
now), the "MADE IN ENGLAND." stamp now was missing its period (no pregnant
jokes, guys), "YE OLDE WOOD" was removed for a spell, and that's just in the
first year. Over the next 5 years or so, nomenclature came and went. TVF
was removed and put back. YE OLDE WOOD, ditto. At some point with either
the transition company or the post-transition company, the EXEL, EL, etc
size stamp joined the rest of the nomenclature slurry again, even with the
new numbering system.
Transition pipes are good pipes. Most were made from old-stock wood, and
really, that's what it's all about. They're also steals on the estate
market, although the early transitions, marked with the small "BARLING'S
MAKE", are getting expensive. Example: I recently sold a size 6 apple,
transition with the arched name, for $100. (Incedentally, if it were pure
pre-trans, that pipe would have fetched $350.) If I had sold that pipe a
year ago... it would have gone for $50.
The big question is, how can you determine a transition piece from a
so-called "Post-transition" piece? (Post-trans pipes are from the *next*
owners of the company, which I think occurred in 1969? Something like
that.) Well, most transition pieces will have "Barlings" in script, and the
4 digit shape number. However, so will most post-trans. You have to work
from a process of elimination. Okay, first, anything that is a "line", such
as "Regency", "Vintage", "Londoner", etc... these are post trans. Moulded
stems... post-trans (and some trans). Bad grain and fills... post trans.
Made In Denmark... post trans. Okay... small "BARLING'S MAKE" arched, with
a 4 digit number? Likely transition, or possibly a pre-trans if other
factors are in place. Handcut stem? Transition. The "Barling"-style
saddle stem and button? DEFINITELY transition. MADE IN ENGLAND... trans.
Basically, if a non-pre-trans Barling has the Barlings in a script, a
4-digit shape number, good grain with some pitting and good workmanship, and
a typically-styled handcut Barling saddle bit, you can be reasonably certain
that you have a transition piece in your hand. I am generalising, yes, but
for the sake of this discussion (and not having 100 examples at once to lay
out on a table and show you what I'm talking about), this will have to do.
Figuring it all out is a pain for most people. I can guarantee you that I
don't know even 20% of the truth and have to piece together most of this
stuff from observation, talking to other collectors, looking at examples,
and using deductive reasoning. I can't guarantee that everything above is
correct. However, most Barling guys would probably agree with 90% of it.
So bottom line... pre-trans pieces float between good and sublime (just like
Dunhill, Sasieni, etc, from the same timeframes). Transition pieces are
bargains when you can find 'em and recognise them for what they are, and
post-trans pieces are, in my opinion, to be avoided.
Hope this info helps.
Kind regards,
Michael
Joshua
"Tony Coronado" <coro...@dsrah.dsrnet.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.33.020215...@dsrah.dsrgbl.com...
> I've been looking at Barling pipes lately and was wondering if anyone can
> give me alittle more information on these pipes? I understand that they
> are classified into three eras (transitional, pretransitional, and
> posttransitional). How are they as a whole? Are new Barlings any good?
> Are they oil-cured? Why are pre-trans Barlings so collectible?
>
> Tony.
I don't know as much as most about Barling as some but I did read RARE SMOKE
(Hackers book). This is basically paraphrasing his Barling history....
They started off making highgrade meerschaums throughout the 1800s. Were
one of the earliest non-French companies to make pipes out of Briar. It was
a family operation with impeccable quality control, using fantastic wood.
They made some fantastic pipes in the 'pre-transition period'.
They were baught by Imperial Tobacco in the early 60s. This is considered
the 'transition period'. The quality control was generally shot, but they
were still using the quality wood that had been stockpiled. Some fo the
work was farmed out, and the brand suffered alot. One can find some decent
pipes from this period, though there are some quality issues with others.
Once that wood ran out, the 'post transition period' begins.... lower
quality of wood, lower quality of craftsmanship... essentially the brand was
turned from a highly respected pipe into a 'step above basket pipe' pipe...
yes, I am sure some good smokers can be found in current offerings, but
they will never have the qualities or character of the pre-trans pieces.
Joshua
Henry Smallwood
no.1 pp.40-46).
http://www.pt-magazine.com/backissues/spring2000/Default.asp
Tony Coronado
> Well... I can give a partial history.
[informative post snipped]
Thank you Mike for such an informative post! Ian, this is definitely a
post for the ASP faq/website! I'm saving this post for reference, I think
I'll be on the lookout for a Barling.
Thank you again for devoting your time to such a useful reply!
Tony.
Robert DOnnelly
Well, your asking for a fair bit of information, but here's a small
amount of information; yes Barlings are classified into
Pre-Transition(1812-1962), Transition(1962-1969), and
Post-Transition(1968-present) pipes; the Pre-Transition family pipes
are excellent smokes, and highly collectable. The easiest way to tell
the difference is that nearly all family era pipes are stamped
'Barlings Make' in block letters with the exception of Guinea Grain
which had 'Barlings' in script, and come in various grades e.g., Ye
Old Wood, Fossil, Special, Bird's Eye, Guinea Grain, Quaint(though
never stamped as such),Straight Grain. Also all Transition pipes
featured 4 digit numbers with the exception of those beginning with a
(1)which were family era pipes made expressly for the English market.
Additionally, the earlier family era pipes featured very little
nomenclature and in some cases included shop names which the pipes
were made for. There's an excellent article concerning Barling's
written by Tad Gage, in Pipes and Tobacco's Spring 2000 magazine.
Besides Michael Linder, I would also suggest Micheal or Mel Feldman of
'The Smoker' who are very knowledgable. Hope this helps.
All the Best,
Robert
<coro...@dsrah.dsrnet.com> wrote in message news:<Pine.LNX.4.33.020215...@dsrah.dsrgbl.com>...
The Piperack
enthusiast and some of my info might be a little off in the details. For
example.. I thought that the post-trans era starting in about '69 was due to
another company's purchase of Barling... another gentleman posted that it's
just when the wood ran out. Okay! Well, that's what makes this hobby fun.
Also Rob Donnelly posted an important factoid that I forgot to mention, and
that is that pre-trans Guinea Grains were stamped with "Barling's"
(possessive form) in script. So it takes a real pro to tell the difference
between a pre-trans Guinea and a trans or post-trans Guinea.
It's amazing the amount of brain power we put into the most arcane
knowledge... isn't it? <g>
Mike
"Tony Coronado" <coro...@dsrah.dsrnet.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.33.020215...@dsrah.dsrgbl.com...
Craig Miller
wrote:
>
>Well... I can give a partial history.
>
[snip]
Thanks for this excellent information.
I have a Barling (Script) Guinea Grain 4109 that I purchsed new in the 60's. It
also has the T.V.F. marking. I can now assume that it is bordering on pre
transition and transition.
What does the T.V.F. stand for?
Thanks,
Remove the _not to reply.
Craig Miller
Rangewire
The Very Finest. A pretty good indication, though not 100% guarantee, that the
pipe is made with the old wood and will smoke wonderfully. I have two
transition Barlings with TVF stamping and will NEVER trade or sell them.
BillyPM
Buddy Springman
responses, folks.
--
Buddy
Don't ask why when responding.
"Tony Coronado" <coro...@dsrah.dsrnet.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.33.020215...@dsrah.dsrgbl.com...