MIssing Joao Reis Pipes Found On Ebay Store

sirf...@hotmail.com

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Dec 22, 2005, 6:02:30 PM12/22/05

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Dear ASP:

In a recent thread about Joao Reis pipes, it was noted that some are
for sale on eBay.

Mr. Steve Monjure of www.monjureinternational.com, the US distributor
of Reis pipes requested I post the following:

These pipes were shipped to him back in April, 2005 from Denmark.The
shipment was lost in the mail and Mr. Monjure never recceived them.

These pipes are in fact the property of both Joao Reis and Monjure
International. The Ebay seller is in essence offering contraband goods
that are not in any way her bona fide property: she has NO right to
sell something that does not belong to her.

The United States Postal Inspector has been contacted about this and an
investigation is in process. In addition, eBay and the Sherriff's
Dept. of Huntsvile, AL have also been made aware of this situation.

Any and all pipes that are obrtained will ultimately have to be
forfeited to any or all of the above mentioned entities; if you do in
fact purchase any of these pipes, not only will you have to eventually
return it to Monjure International, but retrieval of any payments made
to the seller are the buyer's responsibility.

Let the buyer beware.

Thank you very much.

Dave

Message has been deleted

JohnO

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Dec 22, 2005, 7:52:12 PM12/22/05

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After reading the original post here, I thought I'd contact her. She
insists that she legally owns the pipes, though she says she never
tells who her sources are for sales.

Rad Davis

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Dec 22, 2005, 8:02:48 PM12/22/05

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"JohnO" <jkoff...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:1135299132.4...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

> After reading the original post here, I thought I'd contact her. She
> insists that she legally owns the pipes, though she says she never
> tells who her sources are for sales.
>

"Legally owns the pipes"? That sounds a bit defensive, doesn't it?

Did you just ask her where she got them, or did you tell her they might be
stolen?

Rad

Message has been deleted

drsluggo

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Dec 22, 2005, 9:18:49 PM12/22/05

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There is a thread on this started by the woman who has acquired the Joao
Reis pipes on the Knox Cigar Bulletin Board in the Member-to-Member Sales
and Trades section. It all smells fishy to me.
DrSluggo
<sirf...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135290897.9...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Message has been deleted

Rad Davis

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Dec 22, 2005, 11:54:06 PM12/22/05

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"desert smoker" <pierr...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1135304776.2...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Dear Dave:
> I don't know who you are, but it appears the ebay seller believes she
> has a legitimate claim to the pipes. Check my prior post for her
> response. If you indeed represent Monjure, good luck with your
> litigation. If your post was simply to create chaos for the ebay
> seller, shame on you!
> Marty
>

Marty,

Dave Siegel is a truly reliable and honest guy, and a very active member of
the pipe smoking community.. I believe he is president of the New York Pipe
Club. He would not have posted what he did unless he knew it to be true.
If he says that Steve Monjure asked him to post what he did, then I don't
doubt it. I wouldn't doubt a word that the man says.

The Ebay seller may believe that she has a legitimate claim to the pipes,
but that doesn't alter the fact the both the pipe maker and Steve Monjure
(the buyer) have said that the pipes went missing from the mail after their
business transaction.

Now they show up on Ebay. Who are you going to believe? The pipe maker and
his distributor, or an unknown Ebay Seller, because she said she has a
"legal claim" to the pipes in her email to you?

Shame on *you*, Marty.

Rad

Rad Davis

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Dec 23, 2005, 12:08:10 AM12/23/05

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"drsluggo" <drsl...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Q4udnTFreowMwzbe...@giganews.com...

> There is a thread on this started by the woman who has acquired the Joao
> Reis pipes on the Knox Cigar Bulletin Board in the Member-to-Member Sales
> and Trades section. It all smells fishy to me.
> DrSluggo

I don't see that thread there, DrSluggo. The latest post in the
Member-to-Member Sales is dated Dec 20.

Rad

Jeannee

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Dec 23, 2005, 2:55:16 AM12/23/05

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Well, it looks like its time for me to step into this insane
conversation. I'm Jeannee, the owner of the pipes at the center of this
discussion. Because I'm only a small business owner it has been
suggested by the previous poster that I am untrustworthy. Therefore I
will keep this post simple and offer those who are interested the
chance to learn the truth for themselves.
Here are some facts:
Neither the original poster nor the individual who he claims to
represent has ever contacted me.
Please call the US Postal Inspector, Atlanta division in Birmingham,
Mr. Aaron. I'll be glad to email the phone # to anyone who asks. It can
also be gotten by calling your local post office. There is no doubt
that these pipes are mine to sell.. or smoke... or do whatever I wish
to do with, and this can be easily verified with a simple phone call.

The original poster and or the individual he claims to represent also
have the information above. Why did they not offer it to you? Instead,
all that was written was false accusations and scare tactics designed
to destroy the business and reputation I've worked to build over the
last 4 years.

Attempting to kill the competition through lies and slander is
reprehensible. I will not be bullied into withdrawing my pipes from the
market. In fact, I'll be adding more pipes for sale over the next week.
In order to create a silver lining around this nasty thread, I'll also
be reducing my prices a bit due to the increased traffic resulting from
this thread.

I apologize to all who have been exposed to this mean spirited attack.
It's ruined my night, but I'm going to get on with business and try to
enjoy Christmas. I hope you do the same!

Jeannee

Message has been deleted

drsluggo

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Dec 23, 2005, 9:35:57 AM12/23/05

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The post is still there. The date is Nov. 27.

drsluggo

"Rad Davis" <r...@raddavispipes.com> wrote in message
news:411f2jF...@individual.net...

mingk...@aol.com

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Dec 23, 2005, 9:40:03 AM12/23/05

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I have no particular knowledge of the matters at hand, but I must point
out one possibility that should be investigated.

Some time back a shipment of Bertram Safferling pipes being shipped via
German and US mail from Germany to the US came up missing. Many months
later the pipes started to show up on ebay. The seller, a very
honorable estate pipe seller, was contacted and the whole story came
out. It seems that the US post office sells lost items from the mail
on ebay at auction. Apparently the package was damaged to the degree
that the sender and recipient could not be indentified, so the items
were sold at auction. Amazingly this was after a full search was
conducted by the recipient, Don Bellchamber, Safferling's US rep at the
time, when the shipment came up missing. The Safferling story has
happy ending as the estate dealer who acquired the missing pipes
returned them to Don, an honorable act by an honorable guy, Joe Allen
of JoeE Pipes. He didn't even hesitate when it was obvious to him that
the rightful owner had surfaced. This story was recounted in the NASPC
newsletter.

While I can't say for sure, but this *may* be what is going on here.
If this is the case the seller should divulge this NOW rather than sit
on the info to try to protect her source, which is downright silly and
stupid. THE US MAIL AUCTIONS OFF LOST ITEMS ON EBAY. Apparently this
seller is no Joe Allen.

I only offer this as one possible explanation.

Art

mingk...@aol.com

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Dec 23, 2005, 9:42:45 AM12/23/05

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Marty, by questioning the motives of Dave Siegel you are barking up the
wrong tree, more than you could know.

Art

Mario Persico

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Dec 23, 2005, 10:00:30 AM12/23/05

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Hi Art,
If she did purchase them at a Postal Recovery auction legally, does she not
have the right to legally sell them or do whatever with them she likes?. As
far as I know, If she went through all the proper channels she is in the
clear. Having said that, I think she COULD choose to settle this matter with
Steve if she is so inclined...but does she HAVE to by law.... hmmm
Just wondering....

Mario Persico
<mingk...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1135348803.4...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

JohnO

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Dec 23, 2005, 10:16:09 AM12/23/05

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Neither, Rad. I merely stated that it's possible they are the same
pipes missing from a shipment between Reis and Steve. And yes, I found
the reply quite defensive. But apparently I'm one of numerous people
who have asked her about the pipes.

Ian James

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Dec 23, 2005, 10:34:49 AM12/23/05

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"BillB" <nom...@nomail.null> wrote in message
news:gnrnq1df7qsueh2mq...@4ax.com...

> On 22 Dec 2005 23:55:16 -0800, "Jeannee" <jean...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I apologize to all who have been exposed to this mean spirited attack.
>

> Given he reputation of the original poster and the content of your
> rebuttal, I tend to believe the original poster. To offer the phone
> number of the postal inspector, which is available to anyone who wants
> to look it up, means precisely nothing.
>
> My opinion is that you're a theiving cunt. I'm sure many share those
> same sentiments.
>
> Fuck you,
>
> Bill
Well Bill

I for one do not share this view, I do however believe you to be a foul
mouthed individual that does little to promote the general pipe community.

I know none of the individuals in this matter, but can see no justification
in any of the previous posts to warrant your foul mouthed response.

I would assume this "high value" package was insured? I would say that if
as is detailed in another post it was brought at a USPS auction then the
current owner has a legal right to these items to dispose of as she see's
fit. Nor do I see why a person should reveal a business source.

So you think that if she obtained them legally, paid good money for them,
she should meekly hand them over to a business that if it is well run will
have recieved compensation for the items lost.

I say if that is the situation NO, keep the pipes. still I don't know
anything for sure. . Maybe you should phone that number and see if they are
investigating, maybe thats why this information was provided.

Maybe the original "owners" could tell us if the package was insured, and if
not why not.

No the only thing I'm certain of is that your a foul mouthed dreg of
humanity. I won't suggest you apologise, as I doubt it would hold any
significance to you.

max

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Dec 23, 2005, 11:05:35 AM12/23/05

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Dec 23, 2005, 11:53:40 AM12/23/05

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Sagiter wrote:
> I am not an attorney but It is my understanding that in most cases stolen
> property always remains stolen property forever until returned to the
> rightful owner. People along the buying line may or may not have financial
> recourse. If she "legitimately" bought these at a lost auction or a blind
> liquidation auction or whatever and they were stolen (without her knowledge)
> she should be required to turn them over. If they were not stolen and simply
> lost the odds are someone's still got to pay Steve. Apparently there are now
> real investigators involved in this, perhaps we should let them handle it.
> If the woman is smart at this point she's talked to her attorney, nothing
> will slow this down faster than an attorney getting involved :-))
>
> Neil

Neil is correct, we can't jump to conclusions. That is why I pointed
out the postal recovery possibility as there is more than one possible
explanation as to how these pipes came to ebay, one where the pipes are
almost certainly legally possessed by the seller.

Art

JAL

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Dec 23, 2005, 12:00:58 PM12/23/05

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To read this type of base diatribe, one generally has to go to
alt.smoker.cigars!!! Shame on you, Bill.

john

"BillB" <nom...@nomail.null> wrote in message
news:gnrnq1df7qsueh2mq...@4ax.com...

> On 22 Dec 2005 23:55:16 -0800, "Jeannee" <jean...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>

>> I apologize to all who have been exposed to this mean spirited attack.
>

mingk...@aol.com

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Dec 23, 2005, 12:57:49 PM12/23/05

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> While I can't say for sure, but this *may* be what is going on here.
> If this is the case the seller should divulge this NOW rather than sit
> on the info to try to protect her source, which is downright silly and
> stupid. THE US MAIL AUCTIONS OFF LOST ITEMS ON EBAY. Apparently this
> seller is no Joe Allen.
>
> I only offer this as one possible explanation.
>
> Art

I should point out that the postal recovery auctions do not take place
on eBay as I said above (at least not that I know of), but items
acquired at these auctions do end up on eBay. While I can understand
it if this seller is trying to protect that source for future
acquisitions, it would certainly go a long way towards clearing this up
if that is the case as items acquired at such auctions are bought free
and clear of all claims.

What Joe Allen did with the Safferlings was his personal choice. I own
one of those pipes today. Talk about good karma.

Art

Steve

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Dec 23, 2005, 2:38:37 PM12/23/05

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I was informed today by the Postal Inspector in Birmingham that the
Joao Reis Pipes that were originally intented to be received by me was
sold at one of the many Postal Auctions held in Atlanta. For whatever
reason, this shipment was considered unclaimed freight. I filed a
claim for the pipes with the USPS back in May and apparantly nothing
was done to search for this shipment. This is extremely unfortunate for
Joao Reis beacuse he spent months making these pipes and now he has
nothing to show for his work. The shipment was not insured. This was
a mistake on his part, but he has paid a huge price. Now the pipes he
has made are being sold on ebay. What a slap in the face.... I will
file an appeal with the Postal Inspector and the State Attorney. Steve
Monjure

JtN©

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Dec 23, 2005, 2:50:45 PM12/23/05

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Steve ... this is sad news what is happening with Joao's artistic
creations. No matter what anyone says the lady selling them on E-Bay
knows the situation and knows that she herself is a crooked and shady
person.

Back on November 20th she appeard on Knox's site asking questions about
the pipes. http://tinyurl.com/c6lnv She was asked where they were
gotten from and she did say from an auction but not what kind of or
where the auction was. What is amazing is she stated she had just
started researching them but if you type in "Joao Reis Pipes" on Google
the first link that pops up is yours and Knox Cigar is the 4th link
down and she had to investigate the heck out of that site to find there
bulletian board and then also had to register on the board to ask her
questions.

If she was on the honest and the up and up on the whole situation she
should have IMHO contacted the US distributor of Joao Reis pipes and
gotten her information directly from you but she did not because she
knows that she is not fully on the up and up on these pipes.

Steve I hope that in some way or another you can get the pipes back and
that she is out whatever she spent at the Postal Auction.

JtN©

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Dec 23, 2005, 2:52:47 PM12/23/05

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http://tinyurl.com/c6lnv

Michael Stanley

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Dec 23, 2005, 3:12:20 PM12/23/05

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How on earth you can call someone who gets something through an auction
held by the USPS a crook is beyond me. To be sure, the USPS was it's typical
lax self but the buyer shouldn't be expected to suffer for the lack of
insurance on a package she didn't ship or for being the winning bidder in a
USPS unclaimed items auction. Jeez!
The maker has every right to be mad but not at this particular person
IMHO.
Mike Stanley
G&H Best Brown in a freehand of my creation.

--
http://mikes-pipe-site.tripod.com/
"JtNŠ" <jim_the...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135367445.3...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

Steve ... this is sad news what is happening with Joao's artistic
creations. No matter what anyone says the lady selling them on E-Bay
knows the situation and knows that she herself is a crooked and shady
person.

(snip)

Ian Rastall

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Dec 23, 2005, 3:15:43 PM12/23/05

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On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 20:12:20 GMT, "Michael Stanley"
<stanl...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>The maker has every right to be mad but not at this particular person

I agree, Mike. The culprit here is the USPS and its bureaucracy. I
think this woman deserves an apology, as she has done nothing wrong,
as she said from the beginning.

Ian
--
http://www.bookstacks.org/

JtN©

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Dec 23, 2005, 3:22:47 PM12/23/05

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We must ask ourselves this one small minor question ...

If it was you who had bought these pipes and knew nothing about them
would you not try and contact the maker or the distributor for them and
ask for some information or would you blindly avoid them both and try
and seek help from somewhere else?

Finding both Steve and Joao is not very difficult if you are "honestly"
searching for information. She blindly avoided both Joao and Steve
knowing that if she had she would have run into problems like she is
trying to now avoid. She is a crook ... maybe not one that by law is
proven but she is a shady buisness person that derserves all the bad
karma that can be directed at her.

Michael Stanley

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Dec 23, 2005, 3:29:03 PM12/23/05

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So, let me see if I have this right. The purpose of an auction of unclaimed
goods is the reunion of the lost property with the original owner?
The Postal Service should be ashamed and the original owner should have
protected himself with insurance. The original owner or Steve Monjure (whom
I find to be a nice guy from my limited meeting btw) should try and strike a
bargain with the curent owner if he (they) wish.
I have no idea what the current owner paid for these pipes but regardless,
they are hers.
I know Jim. Why don't you buy them and give them back to the maker? There
would certainly be plenty of good "Karma" in that!
Mike Stanley

--
http://mikes-pipe-site.tripod.com/
"JtNŠ" <jim_the...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:1135369367.0...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

JtN Š2005

JtN©

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Dec 23, 2005, 3:36:13 PM12/23/05

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Yes Mr Stanley ... what ever you say Mr Stanley and I'm not going to
get into some form of long dragged out argumenitive form of discussion
that you are trying to create.

I fully agree with what your stating and I will also agree to disagree
with you that I think that her style of buisness is shady and
borderline dishonest. She knows and knew who the distributor was, she
knows and knew who the maker was (both easily found with very minimul
research) but avoided contacting either and thus trying to avoid any
problems due to any postal investigations or appeals.

It is more her way of doing buisness that is disgusting than really
her.

Michael Stanley

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Dec 23, 2005, 3:59:54 PM12/23/05

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--
http://mikes-pipe-site.tripod.com/
"JtNŠ" <jim_the...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:1135370173.7...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Yes Mr Stanley ... what ever you say Mr Stanley

(snip)

LOL

Message has been deleted

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Dec 23, 2005, 6:12:58 PM12/23/05

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BillB wrote:
> On 22 Dec 2005 23:55:16 -0800, "Jeannee" <jean...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I apologize to all who have been exposed to this mean spirited attack.
>
>
> Given he reputation of the original poster and the content of your
> rebuttal, I tend to believe the original poster. To offer the phone
> number of the postal inspector, which is available to anyone who wants
> to look it up, means precisely nothing.
>

> My opinion is that you're a <deleted>

As Kirk said to the Klingon Captain: "I've had just about enough of you!"

*** Plonk! ***

Message has been deleted

G.E.R.R.Y.

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Dec 23, 2005, 6:26:31 PM12/23/05

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In article <412mj7F...@individual.net>, Sagiter
<sag...@optonline.net> wrote:

> nothing will slow this down faster

Nice turn of phrase. ;-)

Gerry

G.E.R.R.Y.

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Dec 23, 2005, 6:59:30 PM12/23/05

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In article <2kmoq1tnd7telth5e...@4ax.com>, Ian Rastall
<idra...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I agree, Mike. The culprit here is the USPS and its bureaucracy. I
> think this woman deserves an apology, as she has done nothing wrong,
> as she said from the beginning.

Yes, she has and is doing something wrong. Put yourself in her place.
If many people came to you and told you those items rightfully belonged
to someone else, wouldn't your first reaction be to try and work out
some kind of compromise? Or would you get on your high horse and tell
everyone to bugger off, that they're all yours and the original maker
is SOL?

I don't know about you, but I sure as hell couldn't do that to the
rightful owner. I want to be able to look at myself in the mirror with
some dignity and respect. IMHO, this miserable piece of work has known
about this whole debacle for a long time and has chosen to "screw 'em
all".

Don't defend her or "her rights" from a legal standpoint or from a
moral one. She may be *LEGAL* but her behaviour certainly is *IMMORAL*,
and she is definitely *AMORAL*.

*AMORAL* adj:
1. Without moral standards or principles;
2. Lacking moral sensibility; not caring about right and wrong.

Gerry

Steven Fowler

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Dec 23, 2005, 7:20:38 PM12/23/05

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Amen!

Steven

Sailorman Jack

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Dec 23, 2005, 10:56:49 PM12/23/05

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Ian wrote:

<stanley...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I wonder what the new owner paid in this auction for this lot?

That's a scary thought. I doubt the USPS knows the value of a
high-grade pipe.

Ian

Jack writes:

Why should it need to? That's the purpose of an *auction.*

Fair winds,
Jack

Warren F

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Dec 23, 2005, 11:07:41 PM12/23/05

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The honorable thing to do in this case would be to sell the pipes back
to Steve Monjour at a modest profit for yourself. No pipesmoker would
enjoy owning a pipe which has a tarnished background, and you discredit
yourself as an upright person by selling something you now know was
lost in the mail. I hope you do the right thing.

Joe LaVigne

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Dec 23, 2005, 11:16:02 PM12/23/05

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On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 18:59:30 -0500, G.E.R.R.Y. wrote:
> Don't defend her or "her rights" from a legal standpoint or from a
> moral one. She may be *LEGAL* but her behaviour certainly is *IMMORAL*,
> and she is definitely *AMORAL*.

It almost pains me to say this, but I think I agree with you, Gerry. ;-)

While she has a legitimate claim to current ownership of the pipes, she
should be ashamed that once she knew who the rightful owner was, she didn't
do something to rectify the situation.

--
Joseph M. LaVigne
jlav...@hits-buffalo.com
http://www.thelavignefamily.us/MyPipePages/ - 12/23/2005 11:14:39 PM

Scientists are complaining that the new Dinosaur movie shows dinosaurs with
lemurs, who didn't evolve for another million years. They're afraid the
movie will give kids a mistaken impression. What about the fact that the
dinosaurs are singing and dancing?
--Jay Leno

Joe LaVigne

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Dec 24, 2005, 12:00:57 AM12/24/05

to

You assume that Steve is willing to pay for them a second time.

How much is a "modest" profit?

I agree that the current owner should work with Steve to try to come to a
fair compromise, but I am not willing to say what each side will consider
fair...

--
Joseph M. LaVigne
jlav...@hits-buffalo.com

http://www.thelavignefamily.us/MyPipePages/ - 12/23/2005 11:59:41 PM

"Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our own will within
limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others."
- Thomas Jefferson

G.E.R.R.Y.

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Dec 24, 2005, 12:09:17 AM12/24/05

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In article <jfbce8m5...@hits-buffalo.com>, Joe LaVigne
<jlav...@hits-buffalo.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 18:59:30 -0500, G.E.R.R.Y. wrote:
> > Don't defend her or "her rights" from a legal standpoint or from a
> > moral one. She may be *LEGAL* but her behaviour certainly is *IMMORAL*,
> > and she is definitely *AMORAL*.
>
> It almost pains me to say this, but I think I agree with you, Gerry. ;-)
>
> While she has a legitimate claim to current ownership of the pipes, she
> should be ashamed that once she knew who the rightful owner was, she didn't
> do something to rectify the situation.

It almost pains me to say this, but I think I agree with you, Joe. ;-)

Gerry <heehee>

Steve

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Dec 24, 2005, 12:10:58 AM12/24/05

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When I get back from vacation holidays perhaps I will post a somewhat
lengthy missive about international packages,how they are
handled,inspected for contraband,rewrapped when damaged[by people on
light duty who are often faking injuries] and about how the system
works[and in some cases doesn't work].Often people will send glass
bottles of wine or spirits which often break and being in a hamper with
other packages,.they will obliterate the addresses of other
packages.Some countries like Holland especially are on the "Profile"
and everything from them is suspect.More to follow from a humble
government drone.
Stephen

Barry Sargent

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Dec 24, 2005, 3:19:09 AM12/24/05

to

Gerry,

I couldn't agree more on the amoral issue.

As I read through this thread, I can't help but think about the chain of
events (as I know them from reading here, to include the ebay sellers post
here) and can't help but wonder.

The ebay seller:
1. Wins an auction of pipes at a legitimate auction of unrecovered goods
from USPS.

2. Does a little research on the pipes to prepare for the ebay auction
listings. Discovers he is a small production pipemaker (the ebay seller does
a good job of listing his background in the listings' descriptions) that
produces high-grade, handmade pipes. Discovers they are distinct (not mass
produced) and command a high price in regards to smoking pipes, and so,
prices them accordingly .

From the ebay sellers description alone it's easy to conclude we're not
dealing with a mass produced items here, but pipes that are sold in a niche
market. In other words, someone may recognize these things and ask me how I
got a hold of them, considering where I bought them.

So why should the ebay seller be so surprised when the inquiries start to
come in regarding how she came into possession of these pipes? I interpret
her posture and tone in her posting at little defensive so I can't help but
think she is only after the buck. I'm not saying that is good, bad, or
illegal. just my interpretation of what believe is. I do find it distasteful
though, all things considered.

But then again I will not go to a pawn shop either. In my former profession,
I dealt with too many thieves and burglars who used pawn shops to fence
their stolen goods. Though buying stuff at pawn shops is very legal, I find
it distasteful, knowing the heart ache attached to most of the items there.

Barry
Time for some Anniversary Kake in a Radice. Thanks for the tobacco tip
ASPers. Good stuff!

"G.E.R.R.Y." <gconetta...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:231220051859303648%gconetta...@gmail.com...

Jack Howell

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Dec 24, 2005, 9:50:49 AM12/24/05

to

On 12/23/05 9:07 PM, in article
1135397261....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "Warren F"
<blackd...@mchsi.com> wrote:

Hear, hear!

Jack

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Charles Perry

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Dec 24, 2005, 12:00:15 PM12/24/05

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"Rad Davis" <r...@raddavispipes.com> wrote in message
news:4110miF...@individual.net...
>
> "JohnO" <jkoff...@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:1135299132.4...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> After reading the original post here, I thought I'd contact her. She
>> insists that she legally owns the pipes, though she says she never
>> tells who her sources are for sales.
>>
>
> "Legally owns the pipes"? That sounds a bit defensive, doesn't it?
>
> Did you just ask her where she got them, or did you tell her they might be
> stolen?
>
> Rad

What little law I know, and it ain't much, tells me that one cannot "legally
own" stolen goods. No matter how many hands they pass through.

Charles Perry P.E.

Sagiter

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Dec 24, 2005, 12:43:38 PM12/24/05

to

The pipes were NOT stolen. Sold by the USPS as unclaimed.

Neil

--
Neil Flancbaum
Craftsman
Home of the Ultimate Pipe Bag
http://www.smokinholsters.com

"Charles Perry" <pipesan...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:415d50F...@individual.net...

kilted1

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Dec 25, 2005, 10:16:21 AM12/25/05

to

"Steve" <pipa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1135366717.5...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> I was informed today by the Postal Inspector in Birmingham that the
> Joao Reis Pipes that were originally intented to be received by me was
> sold at one of the many Postal Auctions held in Atlanta. For whatever
> reason, this shipment was considered unclaimed freight. I filed a
> claim for the pipes with the USPS back in May and apparantly nothing
> was done to search for this shipment. This is extremely unfortunate for
> Joao Reis beacuse he spent months making these pipes and now he has
> nothing to show for his work. The shipment was not insured. This was
> a mistake on his part, but he has paid a huge price. Now the pipes he
> has made are being sold on ebay. What a slap in the face.... I will
> file an appeal with the Postal Inspector and the State Attorney. Steve
> Monjure
>

Steve,

I'm wondering about a couple things:

1 Did you pay Joao for his pipes before he shipped them? I know sometimes
agreements are struck between maker and distibutor on a consignment basis,
other times the distributor buys and then resells the goods.
2. If so did you pay for shipping? Most purchases I make "online or be mail
order" I pay for shipping costs. At the time that I place the order, I'm
also offered the opportunity to pay for additional insurance.

Many are wondering whether Joao has ever received a dime for his works. If
he sent you his works without any form of payment beforehand, he is indeed
out a lot of money I'd imagine. If he received payment from you before
shipping, then he is taken care of in this matter.

People seem to be fairly confused about these issues and the way they have
been represented on this board. Wild assumptions and accusations have flown
all over this and several other threads regarding this transaction. The
original post sought to represent Jeannee (the purchaser of the missing
pipes at the USPS auction) as a thief. I think its been made fairly clear
that hse is not a thief, but purchased these pipe "legally". Neither
yourself or Dave have said anything more on this matter, nor done anything
to clear up any further details about such matters.

I'm just wondering. I'm pretty certain I'm not alone.

Regards,

kilted1

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Dec 25, 2005, 7:32:19 PM12/25/05

to

<sirf...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1135290897.9...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Dear ASP:
>
> In a recent thread about Joao Reis pipes, it was noted that some are
> for sale on eBay.
>
> Mr. Steve Monjure of www.monjureinternational.com, the US distributor
> of Reis pipes requested I post the following:
>
> These pipes were shipped to him back in April, 2005 from Denmark.The
> shipment was lost in the mail and Mr. Monjure never recceived them.
>
> These pipes are in fact the property of both Joao Reis and Monjure
> International. The Ebay seller is in essence offering contraband goods
> that are not in any way her bona fide property: she has NO right to
> sell something that does not belong to her.
>
> The United States Postal Inspector has been contacted about this and an
> investigation is in process. In addition, eBay and the Sherriff's
> Dept. of Huntsvile, AL have also been made aware of this situation.
>
> Any and all pipes that are obrtained will ultimately have to be
> forfeited to any or all of the above mentioned entities; if you do in
> fact purchase any of these pipes, not only will you have to eventually
> return it to Monjure International, but retrieval of any payments made
> to the seller are the buyer's responsibility.
>
> Let the buyer beware.
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> Dave
>

Dave,

Most of what you have claimed here has since either been proven false or
brought into question. To date, neither yourself or Mr. Monjure have posted
any retraction or additional information about what has happened or what
transpired. Steve said he would file an appeal with the Postal Inspector
and the State Attorney. Nothing else on this matter has been posted. If
there is some real on going issue concerning these pipes, we the public
would like to know. If nothing more is to be persued in this reguard we
would like to know. If these claims are indeed false, an apology is
probably in order to Jeannee and to ASP.

To myself (and I've had private contact with Jeannee) it seems that all this
is actually a false claim, and that false accusations have been made and
allowed to stand uncorrected. Jeannee purchased these pipes in a legal
auction and is selling them through e-bay as is her apparent legal right. I
know I'm very curious about the outcome of all of this, and I'm pretty sure
I'm not alone.

Sincerely,

kilted1

Skip

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Dec 25, 2005, 7:41:51 PM12/25/05

to

I'll add my query to kilted1's. I'd like to know the outcome too.

Skip.

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Dec 26, 2005, 1:47:10 PM12/26/05

to

If bought as "Unclaimed" goods from a Government auction, you can bet your
ass you own it "legally".

That still doesn't necessarily mean it's "right".

--
Joseph M. LaVigne
jlav...@hits-buffalo.com

http://www.thelavignefamily.us/MyPipePages/ - 12/26/2005 1:46:17 PM

"Man, the creature who knows he must die, who has dreams larger than his
destiny, who is forever working a confidence trick on himself, needs an
ally. Mine has been tobacco. "

-John Boynton Priestley

Joe LaVigne

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Dec 26, 2005, 1:53:54 PM12/26/05

to

You're not.

Further, I am a little disappointed with Steve, in so much as these
accusations were leveled, but once the accused made a pretty reasonable
defense, no comment was made to clear her. He has continued to let people
think her as a theif.

She may be a bit amoral in the affair, but she is not a theif.

Now, my hopes are that Steve is working with her privately to try to come
to a reasonable solution, rather than to continue the lines of mud
slinging...

--
Joseph M. LaVigne
jlav...@hits-buffalo.com

http://www.thelavignefamily.us/MyPipePages/ - 12/26/2005 1:51:36 PM

"For thy sake, tobacco, I would do anything but die."

-Charles Lamb

Joe LaVigne

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Dec 26, 2005, 1:55:51 PM12/26/05

to

On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 23:32:40 -0500, Sagiter wrote:

> OK well I apologize for anything I've said that could possibly be taken as
> belligerent, wrong, misguided or anything else that might possibly come to
> mind.

'Tis the jeason to be jolly... ;-)

--
Joseph M. LaVigne
jlav...@hits-buffalo.com

http://www.thelavignefamily.us/MyPipePages/ - 12/26/2005 1:55:36 PM

"Nothing serves life and soundness of body so well, nor is so necessary as
the smoke of the royal plant, tobacco."

-Dr. Cornelius Bontekoe, 1685

Joe LaVigne

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Dec 26, 2005, 1:58:57 PM12/26/05

to

Does that really matter?

The maker beleives the pipes to be his.

Monjure, the authorized seller (and addressee of the package) believe the
pipes to be his.

Jeannee believes the pipes to be hers.

In ways, all of them are right. But, morally, Jeannee has no real claim to
them. Joura made them, and Monjure was waiting on them for resale. One
(or both) of them are out money, and their only fault in the matter was not
paying extra for postal insurance.

>
> Thanks for your opinion though...

That's what you should be expecting when you jump in the middle... ;-)

--
Joseph M. LaVigne
jlav...@hits-buffalo.com

http://www.thelavignefamily.us/MyPipePages/ - 12/26/2005 1:56:14 PM

"I believe that pipe smoking contributes to a somewhat calm and objective
judgment in all human affairs"

-- Albert Einstein

Barry Sargent

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Dec 26, 2005, 2:22:57 PM12/26/05

to

Ya know I just can't help getting a little disgusted at USPS. I know
mistakes happen but they sure do seem to have more than they should. And to
me it's not so much the mistakes that initially happen, it's the effort made
to correct the mistake or solve a problem. This one reeks of a very poor
effort (or should that be no effort) on their part the whole time they had
possession of the parcel.

Let's see, left hand has "x" number of Joao Reis pipes in an undeliverable
parcel. Right hand has a filed claim reporting "x" number of Joao Reis pipes
never delivered by us. Since the right hand doesn't know anything about the
left, and apparently vice-versa, we'll just have to put these pipes up for
auction/sale as unclaimed. Can they legally sell that stuff to others after
such a poor effort on their part? While having the necessary information and
items to close the filed claim?

Calling it legal don't make it right, on so many levels.

Barry

"G.E.R.R.Y." <gconetta...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:251220052356519763%gconetta...@gmail.com...

Skip

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Dec 26, 2005, 6:45:13 PM12/26/05

to

Joe LaVigne wrote:
> Does that really matter?
>
> The maker beleives the pipes to be his.
>
> Monjure, the authorized seller (and addressee of the package) believe the
> pipes to be his.
>
> Jeannee believes the pipes to be hers.
>
> In ways, all of them are right. But, morally, Jeannee has no real claim to
> them. Joura made them, and Monjure was waiting on them for resale. One
> (or both) of them are out money, and their only fault in the matter was not
> paying extra for postal insurance.
>

Hmmm. The more I think about this, and based solely on what is known to
those on this group at this time, the more I'm convinced that only
Jeannee is right in regards to a legitimate or moral claim to the pipes.
Neither Steve nor Joao actually has a claim to the pipes, unless you
want to hold that it is immoral for the post offices involved to ship
pipes uninsured. And I still wouldn't agree with you.

They belong to Jeannee. All known evidence to date (what is posted on
this group, anyway) indicates that the manner in which she obtained them
is both moral as well as legal. I don't think that anyone who purchases
any of the pipes from her owes anything to anyone, except to Jeannee.

Even if it turns out that the post office didn't exercise due diligence
in attempting to deliver the package or locate the owner, at most one
could say that the post office is in the wrong; not Jeannee. She still
acquired the merchandise in a legal and moral fashion.

Still, it's sad for Joao, who is the one who appears to have borne the
main financial impact of the loss. It's sad for Jeannee, whose
character has been slandered on this forum. And it's sad for this forum
because of the divisiveness of this topic, and the way that it has
affected forum members.

This is my opinion. I don't expect you, Joe, or anyone else to agree
with me, nor will I be offended if you vehemently disagree.

Skip.

Lobby

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Dec 26, 2005, 8:22:31 PM12/26/05

to

On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 17:45:13 -0600, Skip <pyrom...@comcast.net>
wrote:

Very well said Skip, I agree 100% and that's all I have to say about
it.

Lobby

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