FLIP WILSON'S DEMISE
cattlovrr
Who's heard from this comedic relic from the early 70s since he was
mercifully yanked from the networks by a disgusted NBC? He disappeared
into the Abyss of the Flash In the Pan No-Talents. Obviously this
"star" had no staying power whatsoever--which is the true measure of his
talent (or, more correctly, his lack of it).
Flip Wilson was nothing more than the Aunt Jemina of comedy.
He used cliched and stereotypical caricatures of blacks to selfishly
further his career. In that regard, he was a racist and a woman-hater.
This will be the legacy of Flip Wilson, the most tawdry man to infest a
stage in the name of humor.
Real black stand-up comedians such as Richard Pryor and Chris Rock owe
nothing to this vicious little toad. In fact, they have been successful
despite him. Wilson set back black's chances for comedic staredom by
years and years.
Wilson was a one-joke imbecile: His Geraldine character dishonored both
women and blacks. But most of all it insulted the intelligence of
viewers who soon grew weary of Wilson's repetitive schtick.
Let us not mourn the death of Flip Wilson. We are well rid of a man
whose sullen cynicism has left a stain on the art of comedy forever.
jc
far worse things than Flip Wlison ever did, if you want to talk about
dishonoring your heritage. And you're wrong about Flip standing in the way
of other black comedians. He opened the door a whole lot wider for them.
michelle
>cattlovrr wrote:
>
>> Flip Wilson is dead--and comedy is no worse off.
>>
>> Who's heard from this comedic relic from the early 70s since he was
>> mercifully yanked from the networks by a disgusted NBC? He disappeared
>> into the Abyss of the Flash In the Pan No-Talents. Obviously this
>> "star" had no staying power whatsoever--which is the true measure of his
>> talent (or, more correctly, his lack of it).
>>
>> Flip Wilson was nothing more than the Aunt Jemina of comedy.
>>
>> He used cliched and stereotypical caricatures of blacks to selfishly
>> further his career. In that regard, he was a racist and a woman-hater.
>> This will be the legacy of Flip Wilson, the most tawdry man to infest a
>> stage in the name of humor.
>>
>> Real black stand-up comedians such as Richard Pryor and Chris Rock owe
>> nothing to this vicious little toad. In fact, they have been successful
>> despite him. Wilson set back black's chances for comedic staredom by
>> years and years.
>>
>> Wilson was a one-joke imbecile: His Geraldine character dishonored both
>> women and blacks. But most of all it insulted the intelligence of
>> viewers who soon grew weary of Wilson's repetitive schtick.
>>
>> Let us not mourn the death of Flip Wilson. We are well rid of a man
>> whose sullen cynicism has left a stain on the art of comedy forever.
Venomous little cuss today, aren't we?
Wolfenhnd
>
Same old, same old for cattlelover. S/he/it probably makes up all this crap in
advance and leaves the name blank for speed of issue. It's nothing personal,
really, just a hobby for cattlelover.
In between servicing the cows, cattlelover is a well-known troll.
***-.._.--**-.._..-.........Wolfenhnd.......-.._..-**--._..---***
Unknown
<catt...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Flip Wilson is dead--and comedy is no worse off.
>
>Who's heard from this comedic relic from the early 70s since he was
>mercifully yanked from the networks by a disgusted NBC? He disappeared
>into the Abyss of the Flash In the Pan No-Talents. Obviously this
>"star" had no staying power whatsoever--which is the true measure of his
>talent (or, more correctly, his lack of it).
>
>Flip Wilson was nothing more than the Aunt Jemina of comedy.
>
>He used cliched and stereotypical caricatures of blacks to selfishly
>further his career. In that regard, he was a racist and a woman-hater.
>This will be the legacy of Flip Wilson, the most tawdry man to infest a
>stage in the name of humor.
>
>Real black stand-up comedians such as Richard Pryor and Chris Rock owe
>nothing to this vicious little toad. In fact, they have been successful
>despite him. Wilson set back black's chances for comedic staredom by
>years and years.
>
Funny how I never heard Wilson use the word nigger, which Pryor and
Rock used many times. How do you walk with your ass so tight? Now get
lost you fucking Troll.
Elaine Gallegos
cattlovrr wrote in message <365D3E...@earthlink.net>...
>Flip Wilson was nothing more than the Aunt Jemina of comedy.
I wanna know what was so bad about Aunt Jemina? Her image, clearly a
cartoon, was always one that communicated the symbol of good, satisfying,
dependable down home cooking. Hers was a very honest face that did not put
on airs. The Aunt Jamina brand never claimed nor aspired to be anything
other than dependable Southern American fare. It's comfort food. Yeah. She
did reflect the heritage of blacks as Slaves in the South. That's their
heritage. There's no shame to it. I do not think that anyone looked down on
the Aunt Jamina image.
Likewise, Flip Wilson was just a clown. He made us laugh. His heyday was
some 30 years ago, after all. Look back at some old Laugh-In episodes. None
of that junk has aged well. What was freaking hilarious at that time is
barely funny now. How unfair to hold a mid-60's clown humorist up to this
decade's standards of what's funny.
I LIKED Flip Wilson. It was fun to repeat his silly lines and have a laugh.
Kids like that sort of thing. Those of us who remember WERE kids at the
time. He brought out the kid in adults then too. My parents liked him as
well.
David Migicovsky
>
>>cattlovrr wrote:
>>
>
>
>Venomous little cuss today, aren't we?
>
>
No, cattlovrr is a notorious troll.
--
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suckysuckygirl
> How unfair to hold a mid-60's clown humorist up to this
>decade's standards of what's funny.
> I LIKED Flip Wilson. It was fun to repeat his silly lines and have a laugh.
>Kids like that sort of thing. Those of us who remember WERE kids at the
>time. He brought out the kid in adults then too. My parents liked him as
>well.
Flip Wilson was far funnier, more creative, and less stereotypical than the
pathetic black comedians I see on BET and on Russel Simmons Def comedy jams.
I agree that much early 70s comedy does not hold up too well, but Flips' stuff
holds up better than that of Rowan and Martin, Smothers Bros, Jackie Mason,
Lenny Bruce, and most of the 60s and 70s white comedians.
Sergea...@randozi.com
>
> Flip Wilson is dead--and comedy is no worse off.
Now Catt, be reasonable here. FW had a clean act (!) and bridged the
race gap every bit as well (although not for as long) as Cosby. For a
black man to have had a network show at that time was amazing. I grew up
in the south and all my white AND black friends and I could talk about
the next day was how funny and sharp FW was on his show the night
before. His impact went beyond comedy. I have met several people who
knew or met him and they always claimed he was a perfect gentleman....
Somewhere I just know Flip is up there right now, wearing a new suit,
standing on a street corner, eating a cheese danish, and looking good!
Jweibel3
yeah, when flip was on, the tv was loaded with black comedians. RIGHT.
could i have some of your bile, there's a couple rats in the backyard i'm
trying to get rid of.
MAPSdave...@juno.com
<catt...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Flip Wilson was nothing more than the Aunt Jemina of American comedy.
That's only one side of Flip Wilson, the side the networks let
through. There was another, more aggressive side to his humor which
you've never heard.
al bell
>Obviously this
> "star" had no staying power whatsoever--which is the true measure of his
> talent (or, more correctly, his lack of it).
It's more fun for an artist to create work that will last forever, or at
least 20 years. But there's nothing WRONG with creating pleasant
ephemera.
There's a place in this world both for granite and for soap bubbles.
> Flip Wilson was nothing more than the Aunt Jemina of comedy.
>
> He used cliched and stereotypical caricatures of blacks to selfishly
> further his career. In that regard, he was a racist and a woman-hater.
> This will be the legacy of Flip Wilson, the most tawdry man to infest > a
I think this is a sort of racist, sexist way to look at Flip Wilson.
*Viewers* might have had a racist and sexist reaction to Wilson, or used
his comedy to justify racism.
But Wilson just got up on stage and did created what he thought was
comedy from the raw material of his own life. Maybe he was funny. Maybe
he was not. But he was doing exactly what an artist is supposed to do.
Why should he have had to follow some outside critic's rules for what
African-Americans were and weren't supposed to say?
> Real black stand-up comedians such as Richard Pryor and Chris Rock owe
> nothing to this vicious little toad.
"Real black stand-up comedians"???
I have no idea what Flip Wilson was like off-stage. Maybe he was a
vicious jerk off-stage and deserves your hostility because of that
behavior.
But, on-stage, Wilson made a living doing comedy. People laughed at him.
My parents bought me a Geraldine doll when I was 3. I mean, come on. He
may or may not have been GOOD, but he was REAL.
Pryor and Rock do a particular type of social realism kind of comedy.
That's great. They're really funny. Maybe they're funnier than Wilson.
But that doesn't mean social realism comedy is the only good kind of
comedy, any more than social realism painting is the onlykind of
painting.
Us honkies can do many different kinds of comedy. Why shouldn't
African-Americans have that same freedom?
> Let us not mourn the death of Flip Wilson. We are well rid of a man
> whose sullen cynicism has left a stain on the art of comedy forever.
If the guy is so ephemeral, how can he stain anything forever?
Anyhow, if you posted as you did because you're angry about racism, get
up on stage and fight racism. Fight mean people and mean, stupid social
systems. Don't lash out at artists who were just doing what they knew
how to do.
MacHeath
<steven....@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> I wanna know what was so bad about Aunt Jemina? Her image, clearly a
>cartoon, was always one that communicated the symbol of good, satisfying,
>dependable down home cooking. Hers was a very honest face that did not put
>on airs. The Aunt Jamina brand never claimed nor aspired to be anything
>other than dependable Southern American fare. It's comfort food. Yeah. She
>did reflect the heritage of blacks as Slaves in the South. That's their
>heritage. There's no shame to it. I do not think that anyone looked down on
>the Aunt Jamina image.
Except that they've given her a makeover. No longer does she look like a mammy.
She now looks like a black Betty Crocker! Now that's shame.
andrew.
Oh my goodness...Myfanwy's 9 1/2 months old!
http://www.highwired.com/myfanwy/
Sergea...@randozi.com
>
> On 26 Nov 1998 21:48:02 GMT, "Elaine Gallegos"
> <steven....@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > I wanna know what was so bad about Aunt Jemina? Her image, clearly a
> >cartoon, was always one that communicated the symbol of good, satisfying,
> >dependable down home cooking. Hers was a very honest face that did not put
> >on airs. The Aunt Jamina brand never claimed nor aspired to be anything
> >other than dependable Southern American fare. It's comfort food. Yeah. She
> >did reflect the heritage of blacks as Slaves in the South. That's their
> >heritage. There's no shame to it. I do not think that anyone looked down on
> >the Aunt Jamina image.
>
> Except that they've given her a makeover. No longer does she look like a mammy.
> She now looks like a black Betty Crocker! Now that's shame.
Actually, she was 'melded' which was a term given to her image when the
manufacturer of those cake mixes decided to taken over 200 photographs
of a racially mixed demographic group (selected, of course, by the
manufacturer's view of racially important cultures...I don't see any
Eskimo images on that box...maybe Eskimo's don't buy enough cake mixes,
eh?). Anyway, the image on the Betty Crocker box for the last several
years is a 'melded' one. It's apparently the 'politically correct' way
to sell cake mixes.....Zeeesh...
R. Foresythe
2. To answer an earlier question, he was one of the first and the list was
not too terribly long but the time span was: Hazel Scott had the first
(Pianist, Vocalist. If you can find a reissued copy of "Relaxed Piano
Moods", buy!) and it was a fifteen minute show in the earlier fifties. Nat
"King" Cole's show came after hers.
3. Flip Wilson was born Clerow Wilson (note the name of his production
company), poor and managed to get a network show. Quite an accomplishment!
4. Some of his humor I liked, some I didn't, which is a better percentage
for me than Jack Carter who has ALWYS bugged me.
5. Aunt Jemima in and of itself is not a degrading image to me, however, I
and many of us are not old enough to remember the days that large groups of
people were defined by a small amount of images, so therefore, every Jewish
person acted and talked like Mrs. Nussbaum from the Fred Allen show, all
Asians spoke like Charlie Chan and the images that you see in advertising
look like Aunt Jemima, or even worse, you could at one time run out and buy
a jar of "Niggerhair"(can't remember the product, but I do recall this being
a brand). One can still buy a "Wandering Jew" plant.
All to say that if that is one of the few things you have to refer to, it
can be at best, mildly annoying, at worst, how the rest of the world sees
you.
I am thirty-five and I have had too many conversations along these lines:
1. You look like... (this conversation usually ends with a pretty bad guess)
2. The well-meant but many times wrongheaded conversation in which someone
explaining my culture to me (I listen to many opinions, I try to learn when
I can, however, these conversations tend to be on the condescending side. 2
or 3 have been informative. That is VERY low percentage.)
So how far have we progressed? I feel the need to carry on like an
Afterschool Special, a man dies and someone posts out about Aunt Jemima
(once Bill Cosby was on the Donahue show during the run of the Cosby Show
and Amos 'n' Andy and Stepin Fechit got mentioned, "But I loved those
guys!", the fellow said. So much for progress and yes I have heard/seen
Fechit and Amos 'n' Andy).
One day I hope to see all of us live with respect towards each other.
Brian Phillips
Billyvaun
<3012 bytes of reply to cattlelover snipped>
Don't get your knickers in a twist, mate, but I respectfully submit that that
was the longest, boringest reply to a troll I ever did lay my eyes upon.
It took me to the second paragraph of the original post to figure out the
cattlover was a wanker of the first water. Perhaps reading a few more of the
posts in the thread might give you a read on how seriously one should take such
mewling pap, eh?
Here's a hint: cattlover is a TROLL. She loves jerking chains and your's was
just yanked -- hard.
- BillyV
R. Foresythe
that
>was the longest, boringest reply to a troll I ever did lay my eyes upon.
Sorry I bored you, but I wasn't actually replying to the troll.
>It took me to the second paragraph of the original post to figure out the
>cattlover was a wanker of the first water. Perhaps reading a few more of
the
>posts in the thread might give you a read on how seriously one should take
such
>mewling pap, eh?
>
>Here's a hint: cattlover is a TROLL. She loves jerking chains and your's
was
>just yanked -- hard.
My underwear is in as good condition and my chain is relatively un"yank"ed
and I am well aware that catlovrr was a troll (four years of newreading has
helped, in my case). I posted because of two questions that were posed:
1. Someone asked whether one of the first variety shows hosted by a black
person was Flip Wilson, which I answered.
2. Someone after catlovrr asked what was wrong with Aunt Jemima, which I
explained.
3. I DID read all of the posts, which is why I wrote most of what I did.
Not fussing, just talking, as my cousin Sarah used to say. Just thought I
would mention a few things that I thought needed mentioning. You didn't
feel that way and that's fine, too.
4. If I can't be funny, I try not to be boring and I like seeing Hazel Scott
mentioned (it's still a good album!).
Brian Phillips