SEGA GENESIS lives again, on Nintendo Revolution
AirRa...@gmail.com
Revolution.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6146528.html
http://revolution.ign.com/articles/697/697922p1.html (IGN bastards
spell TurboGrafx wrong lol)
http://revolution.ign.com/articles/697/697882p1.html
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=8656
http://www.chicagotribune.com/technology/sns-ap-nintendo-old-games,1,7228913.story?coll=chi-business-hed
http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/business/technology/14170561.htm
BelPowerslave
It's almost like Nintendo *knows* that this console is not going to
stand on its own, and therefore is going to need stuff like this to
even survive. Cracks me up.
Nintendo: "Hey everyone, ignore that shithouse "controller" we're
putting out with the system, and the fact that 3rd parties are running,
screaming for our disgrace of a machine...because, like your PC, Mac,
Dreamcast, Xbox, PS2, PSP, etc. we can now emulate games you actually
*do* want to play!
'Nintendo: Because you enjoy the mediocrity.'"
{to help drive it home}
http://users2.ev1.net/%7Ebelpowerslave/images/revolutionsucks.gif
(if I could, I'd use that actual gif as my sig) ;)
Bel
Aaron J. Bossig
news:1143157166....@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com:
> GENESIS (and TurboGrafx-16) live once again, now on Nintendo
> Revolution.
>
> http://www.gamespot.com/news/6146528.html
Okay, it's official. The Revolution now has the most badass
back library in the history of game consoles.
--
Aaron J. Bossig
Master_Shake
Date: Thurs, Mar 23 2006 6:16 pm
Email: "BelPowerslave" <Belpowersl...@ev1.net>
Groups: alt.sega.genesis, rec.games.video.sega,
rec.games.video.classic, alt.games.video.classic
Rating: (1 user)
It's almost like Nintendo *knows* that this console is not going to
stand on its own, and therefore is going to need stuff like this to
even survive. Cracks me up.
Nintendo: "Hey everyone, ignore that shithouse "controller" we're
putting out with the system, and the fact that 3rd parties are running,
screaming for our disgrace of a machine...because, like your PC, Mac,
Dreamcast, Xbox, PS2, PSP, etc. we can now emulate games you actually
*do* want to play!
'Nintendo: Because you enjoy the mediocrity.'"
{to help drive it home}
http://users2.ev1.net/%7Ebelpowerslave/images/revolutionsucks.gif
(if I could, I'd use that actual gif as my sig) ;)
Bel "
Bel, how does it feel to be an ignorant ass?
Didimo
wrote:
>'Nintendo: Because you enjoy the mediocrity.'"
RIIIIIGHT.... Nintendo has ALWAYS been a synonim for "mediocrity". Oh
Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.... Grow up.
Simon
BelPowerslave
Long way from the Nintendo newsgroup aren't you? ;)
Not matter how ignorant I may be...it sure feels better than being a
Nintendo fan. :) Ha, ha.
Bel
--
Whip Ass Gaming: http://www.whipassgaming.com/
"If the Xbox console falls and hits someone, especially a small
child, it could cause serious injury."
- The Xbox user manual
BelPowerslave
Yeah, the N64 really just blew away the industry with its wonderfully
fuzzy graphics, not to mention unbelievably expensive carts(another great
choice by Nintendo). The GC, as I'm sure you can tell by sales figures, is
just "rockin" the charts as more and more third party devs stop supporting
the system. I guess we can talk about the continued catastrophe that is
the GameBoy line...but as we speak Nintendo is probably getting ready for
the GameBoy "Slightly Better" edition that will now feature a scratch and
sniff pad so you can enjoy "smell-o-vision" while playing yet another SNES
port...so I'll leave that alone for now. ;)
Nintendo fell apart after the SNES, after the stunt they pulled on Sony,
not to mention all the shit they did in their 8-bit days, they deserve
everything they're getting...and I love watching it. :)
Have a great one,
Darth Chaos
BelPowerslave wrote:
> Nintendo fell apart after the SNES, after the stunt they pulled on Sony,
> not to mention all the shit they did in their 8-bit days, they deserve
> everything they're getting...and I love watching it. :)
I think the official start of Nintendo's downfall started with the
release of the Virtual Boy. The VB has to be one of the biggest flops
of all time...I don't recall how many of the units were sold, but
considering that approx. 135,000 Jaguars were sold, I would dare say
the Jaguar outsold the VB.
BelPowerslave
Oy, good call. I actually had a VB, it was kind of cool. I just wish
that A) it were a bit safer to use and B) was in color(well, the vector
lines were in color, other than red).
I guess that's about right, VB came out before the N64 didn't it? I'll
give credit to the original GB simply for what it was...but after that,
there's no excuse for the constant, minor upgrades the system has seen
since(not counting the DS, of course, which isn't supposed to be of the
GB line...but I still find horribly gimmicky).
Bel
Didimo
<belpow...@ev1.net> wrote:
>Yeah, the N64 really just blew away the industry with its wonderfully
>fuzzy graphics, not to mention unbelievably expensive carts(another great
>choice by Nintendo).
Yep. Too bad that I'd rather play any Zelda and Mario game than
anything that has ever come out on PSX, PS2, Xbox, Xbox 360 b/c to me
Nintendo (not 3rd party) games are more fun to play....
And BTW I'm 42, and I own pretty much every videogame system on the
market since 1972. I like Sony and Microsoft consoles, as much as I've
enjoyed Sega's, SNK's and Nec's. However, Nintendo (not third party
software, but Nintendo's) are IMHO the best quality, and the games
I've enjoyed the most playing.
Since I'm an adult, I incidentally think it's juvenile, silly and
quite tiresome to put down the systems one doesn't like. I've "been
there and done that" since the times of Atari vs. Intellivision, C64
vs. Spectrum (I'm from Europe), NES vs. Master System. It's silly and
it's old. Each successful game system on the market has always had
some good games. Heck, even some unsuccessul systems have had some
good games, too (Virtualboy, case in point).
Incidentally, even when I was 18 at the time of the Atari vs.
Intellivision vs. Vectrex vs. Colecovision debate I thought it was
silly to "campaign" for one system and consequentially put down any
other system....
>I guess we can talk about the continued catastrophe that is
>the GameBoy line...
Yep, too bad that that's the world's top selling portable console of
all time...
>but as we speak Nintendo is probably getting ready for
>the GameBoy "Slightly Better" edition that will now feature a scratch and
>sniff pad so you can enjoy "smell-o-vision" while playing yet another SNES
>port...so I'll leave that alone for now. ;)
It's obviously a successful strategy, since each new version sells
millions. If BTW Sony came out with a better, smaller, revamped PSP
model with a better analog stick, I'd run out and buy one...
Incidentally, then, I cannot help but ponder that the only use my PSP
has seen over the last four months has been running movies on my plane
flight to Florida two weeks ago. My DS on the other hand has been
giving me plenty of fun everyday for weeks now.
>Have a great one,
Oh, you too. Just try to possibly remember that although you're
entitled to your opinions, it would be a good idea to respect those of
others. No need to put people down because they own/like what in your
views are silly/stupid/whatever machines.
But hey, it's your
call/life/ideas/attitudes/maturity/pleasure/fun/interest... Whatever.
Best,
Simone
DarthCha...@gmail.com
BelPowerslave wrote:
> > > Nintendo fell apart after the SNES, after the stunt they pulled on Sony,
> > > not to mention all the shit they did in their 8-bit days, they deserve
> > > everything they're getting...and I love watching it. :)
> >
> > I think the official start of Nintendo's downfall started with the
> > release of the Virtual Boy. The VB has to be one of the biggest flops
> > of all time...I don't recall how many of the units were sold, but
> > considering that approx. 135,000 Jaguars were sold, I would dare say
> > the Jaguar outsold the VB.
>
> Oy, good call. I actually had a VB, it was kind of cool. I just wish
> that A) it were a bit safer to use and B) was in color(well, the vector
> lines were in color, other than red).
I'm surprised that the safety issues concerning the VB didn't result in
Nintendo being sued in a class action suit.
> I guess that's about right, VB came out before the N64 didn't it? I'll
> give credit to the original GB simply for what it was...but after that,
> there's no excuse for the constant, minor upgrades the system has seen
> since(not counting the DS, of course, which isn't supposed to be of the
> GB line...but I still find horribly gimmicky).
Right...the VB was more of a stop-gap between the SNES and the
N64...and the reason I avoided getting a DS is the incompatibility with
the old legacy GB carts (I have the latest version of the GBA SP with
the "better backlit screen"). And yes, I feel the DS seems "too
gimmicky", although it has some good games...the new Metroid looks
really good.
BelPowerslave
> > that A) it were a bit safer to use and B) was in color(well, the vector
> > lines were in color, other than red).
>
> I'm surprised that the safety issues concerning the VB didn't result in
> Nintendo being sued in a class action suit.
I thought they actually got sued, or at least someone attempted to sue
them at some point down the line for it. I could be wrong on that one
though...
> > I guess that's about right, VB came out before the N64 didn't it? I'll
> > give credit to the original GB simply for what it was...but after that,
> > there's no excuse for the constant, minor upgrades the system has seen
> > since(not counting the DS, of course, which isn't supposed to be of the
> > GB line...but I still find horribly gimmicky).
>
> Right...the VB was more of a stop-gap between the SNES and the
> N64...and the reason I avoided getting a DS is the incompatibility with
> the old legacy GB carts (I have the latest version of the GBA SP with
> the "better backlit screen").
Agreed. If I ever were to get another GB, I'd probably go with the
SP...even though I'd silently wish it was the GBA with the AfterBurner
thing installed. Loosing all those old school original and Color titles
would be a bit too much to bare.
And yes, I feel the DS seems "too
> gimmicky", although it has some good games...the new Metroid looks
> really good.
Well, if nothing else, I hear it's quite good to use when playing just
regular GBA titles due to the quality of the screen...but that's about
the only nice thing I could say about it. ;)
Bel
BelPowerslave
> >fuzzy graphics, not to mention unbelievably expensive carts(another great
> >choice by Nintendo).
>
> Yep. Too bad that I'd rather play any Zelda and Mario game than
> anything that has ever come out on PSX, PS2, Xbox, Xbox 360 b/c to me
> Nintendo (not 3rd party) games are more fun to play....
Wonderful.
> And BTW I'm 42, and I own pretty much every videogame system on the
> market since 1972. I like Sony and Microsoft consoles, as much as I've
> enjoyed Sega's, SNK's and Nec's. However, Nintendo (not third party
> software, but Nintendo's) are IMHO the best quality, and the games
> I've enjoyed the most playing.
I can dig it, and more power to ya.
> Since I'm an adult, I incidentally think it's juvenile, silly and
> quite tiresome to put down the systems one doesn't like. I've "been
> there and done that" since the times of Atari vs. Intellivision, C64
> vs. Spectrum (I'm from Europe), NES vs. Master System. It's silly and
> it's old. Each successful game system on the market has always had
> some good games. Heck, even some unsuccessul systems have had some
> good games, too (Virtualboy, case in point).
> Incidentally, even when I was 18 at the time of the Atari vs.
> Intellivision vs. Vectrex vs. Colecovision debate I thought it was
> silly to "campaign" for one system and consequentially put down any
> other system....
Oh calm down, it was a joke for Christ's sake. I don't particularly
care for Nintendo, true enough, and I think that anything past the SNES
with them has been an absolute disgrace...but that's just me. Believe
it or not, I've owned an NES, GameBoy(original), SNES, Virtual Boy,
Nintendo 64, a GameCube and and a GBA Player. To me, the only two worth
keeping are the NES and SNES.
> >I guess we can talk about the continued catastrophe that is
> >the GameBoy line...
>
> Yep, too bad that that's the world's top selling portable console of
> all time...
You know, at one point a magazine hailed Tohshinden(1) to be the best
game ever made...
> >but as we speak Nintendo is probably getting ready for
> >the GameBoy "Slightly Better" edition that will now feature a scratch and
> >sniff pad so you can enjoy "smell-o-vision" while playing yet another SNES
> >port...so I'll leave that alone for now. ;)
>
> It's obviously a successful strategy, since each new version sells
> millions. If BTW Sony came out with a better, smaller, revamped PSP
> model with a better analog stick, I'd run out and buy one...
I don't know if we'll be seeing that anytime soon, but it is a nice
idea.
> Incidentally, then, I cannot help but ponder that the only use my PSP
> has seen over the last four months has been running movies on my plane
> flight to Florida two weeks ago. My DS on the other hand has been
> giving me plenty of fun everyday for weeks now.
No GTA: LCS!? Man, I'd *almost* buy a PSP for that if it weren't being
ported to the PS2 and possibly Xbox(at some point)...
> >Have a great one,
>
> Oh, you too. Just try to possibly remember that although you're
> entitled to your opinions, it would be a good idea to respect those of
> others. No need to put people down because they own/like what in your
> views are silly/stupid/whatever machines.
> But hey, it's your
> call/life/ideas/attitudes/maturity/pleasure/fun/interest... Whatever.
Well, be sure and note the range of groups this was presented to...had
this of been crossposted to a Nintendo group(which, oddly enough it
wasn't) and I had done this...I could see some need for any
lashing...but come on man, what kind of response to a Nintendo system
were you *expecting* to see in the Sega group? ;)
Bel
Didimo
wrote:
>Oh calm down, it was a joke for Christ's sake.
OOPPS : ). Ok, sorry :) . It must be those 20+ years of exposure to
silly console wars that got me going :).
>care for Nintendo, true enough, and I think that anything past the SNES
>with them has been an absolute disgrace...but that's just me. Believe
>it or not, I've owned an NES, GameBoy(original), SNES, Virtual Boy,
>Nintendo 64, a GameCube and and a GBA Player. To me, the only two worth
>keeping are the NES and SNES.
Fair enough. I bought a Famicom + Disk system recently, and I still
play that more than my 64 or GC, so I understand :).
>No GTA: LCS!? Man, I'd *almost* buy a PSP for that if it weren't being
>ported to the PS2 and possibly Xbox(at some point)...
Great game, but not meant for a portable console, IMHO. Great on a
home console. Besides, I've never been a fan of the series.
>Well, be sure and note the range of groups this was presented to...had
>this of been crossposted to a Nintendo group(which, oddly enough it
>wasn't) and I had done this...I could see some need for any
>lashing...but come on man, what kind of response to a Nintendo system
>were you *expecting* to see in the Sega group? ;)
LOL :) . My newsreader didn't tell me about that, or I could have
guessed you were KIND of joking : ).
BTW: am I the only one who kind of dreams that at some point,
eventually, Sega could come out with a new console? : ).
Best,
Simone
BelPowerslave
>
> OOPPS : ). Ok, sorry :) . It must be those 20+ years of exposure to
> silly console wars that got me going :).
Well, no need for all that...it was a joke at Nintendo's expense
afterall. ;)
> >care for Nintendo, true enough, and I think that anything past the SNES
> >with them has been an absolute disgrace...but that's just me. Believe
> >it or not, I've owned an NES, GameBoy(original), SNES, Virtual Boy,
> >Nintendo 64, a GameCube and and a GBA Player. To me, the only two worth
> >keeping are the NES and SNES.
>
> Fair enough. I bought a Famicom + Disk system recently, and I still
> play that more than my 64 or GC, so I understand :).
My buddy has one of those disk systems, though he can't seem to get it
to work lately. I've yet to see anything on it.
> >No GTA: LCS!? Man, I'd *almost* buy a PSP for that if it weren't being
> >ported to the PS2 and possibly Xbox(at some point)...
>
> Great game, but not meant for a portable console, IMHO. Great on a
> home console. Besides, I've never been a fan of the series.
Let's hope they do a good job with the ports.
>
> >Well, be sure and note the range of groups this was presented to...had
> >this of been crossposted to a Nintendo group(which, oddly enough it
> >wasn't) and I had done this...I could see some need for any
> >lashing...but come on man, what kind of response to a Nintendo system
> >were you *expecting* to see in the Sega group? ;)
>
> LOL :) . My newsreader didn't tell me about that, or I could have
> guessed you were KIND of joking : ).
I still don't feel the Revolution is going to really stand up in this
next system war, but like when someone makes fun of the Xbox, Genesis
or something...it's not that big of a deal. Like I said, I would not
have crossposted that to any Nintendo group just because of the lashing
I definitely would have received at poking a bit of fun of the
Revolutions line up consisting of mostly games from other consoles. ;)
> BTW: am I the only one who kind of dreams that at some point,
> eventually, Sega could come out with a new console? : ).
Oh, we dream about it constantly...but sadly, I think we've all given
up on something like that ever coming down the pipe again. :(
Bel
Scott H
That's either extremely good news, or extremely bad. If the
downloads have the shoddy music and glitches of the Sega Smash Packs, I
swear I will simply walk away from gaming. Otherwise, I have a lot of
considerations for my existing libraries, provided the downloads can be
kept stored somewhere locally....
--
Scott
Useful Usenet definitions:
Hypocrite
Gr: Hupokrites;
1. an actor, stage player
2. a dissembler, pretender, hypocrite
Dissembler(Synonym of hypocrite);
1 : to hide under a false appearance
2 : to put on the appearance of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_%28law%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fact_(law)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanboy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_argument
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
Scott H
>
> I guess that's about right, VB came out before the N64 didn't it? I'll
> give credit to the original GB simply for what it was...but after that,
> there's no excuse for the constant, minor upgrades the system has seen
> since(not counting the DS, of course, which isn't supposed to be of the
> GB line...but I still find horribly gimmicky).
>
> Bel
>
In defense of the DS, it seems to be the only game console related
device in 20 years to actually make games that people will play using
something other than a derivative of the original NES pad. In fact, as
much as I love to bash rehashing, Nintendo seems to be onto a unique
strategy with its re-releases on the DS. Making an old game "better"
has been a huge fad on the 3D consoles, and it has almost universally
failed miserably. Yet, Nintendo has succeeded in making old(er) games
seem fresh and new using the touch screen, or wifi online gaming, by
using a portable device at the same time (Mario Kart DS, Animal Crossing).
I don't know what to say except that since that old bastard NOJ
President stepped down, it seems like Miyamoto might be the man with
enough clout to actually affect Nintendo policy from now on. It would
be very easy to paint a picture to the public of Nintendo being the only
console manufacturer carrying the "old school" mantel. In fact, if NOA
could manage to buy off mags like Gamepro and Game Informer (which are
*always* for sale), I wouldn't be surprised if we saw this idea
published soon. I see more creativity out of Nintendo in the last few
years than I had in the previous decade, and I am watching the
Revolution to see if it actually delivers its name sake.
azmun
Didimo wrote:
> Fair enough. I bought a Famicom + Disk system recently, and I still
> play that more than my 64 or GC, so I understand :).
Oh man, I sure miss that system. My favorite games for it were Versus
Excitebike and 3D Hot Rally. They are exeptional games that have stood
the test of time and games I very much wish I could play now if only I
could have our disk system up and running.
> BTW: am I the only one who kind of dreams that at some point,
> eventually, Sega could come out with a new console? : ).
Like Bel, I've given up on this dream. If you look at history, you'll
see the industry is only good for two major players. And it seems the
battle will be raged on by Microsoft and Sony over the years to come.
The transition from a first to third party developer has had it's ups
and downs for Sega and it's fans and I realise how this generation
(128-bit) has fragmented their past efforts and consequently the need
to own multiple consoles to enjoy their best games.
Friend...@gmail.com
> see the industry is only good for two major players. And it seems the
> battle will be raged on by Microsoft and Sony over the years to come.
> The transition from a first to third party developer has had it's ups
> and downs for Sega and it's fans and I realise how this generation
> (128-bit) has fragmented their past efforts and consequently the need
> to own multiple consoles to enjoy their best games.
bankrupcy is imminent, but it's not a sure bet that Sony will be around
after the PS3, especially considering the huge gamble that is Blu Ray.
BelPowerslave
Does anyone have a clue, yet, as to what the industry is going to go
with? I think MS has the right idea, releasing the 360 with a regular
DVD rom, then talking about offering an external HD/Blue Ray DVD rom
once they hit. I'd imagine once it does come out, and MS decides who
they are going to back, they'll re-release the 360 with the HD/Blue Ray
DVD rom already built in(and that'll be the day I buy one).
Bel
BelPowerslave
"Revolution To Offer Sega Genesis Games For Download, Still No Word On
Virtual Boy Games
At this week's Game Developer's Conference, Nintendo announced that the
Revolution will not only make it possible for gamers to download and
play classic Nintendo titles, but Sega Genesis games as well. While
this is exciting news, VGA's sources have reported rumblings from
within Nintendo about major setbacks in getting the Genesis titles to
function. Apparently, Sega's games from that era were specifically
designed to do what Nintendon't, making the emulation process on
Nintendo hardware inherently next to impossible.
Additionally, there are grave concerns over the Revolution's lack of a
dedicated blast processing chip and the subsequent side effects this
would have on titles such as Sonic The Hedgehog, leading a red-eyed and
twitching Ken Kutaragi to announce that the PS3 has seven blast
processing cores and that each is powerful enough to render a
Pixar-quality cgi film in realtime with enough power left over to write
an Academy Award winning screenplay for each. Kutaragi then cackled and
disappeared in a flash of smoke, only to reappear in the center of the
crowd disguised as a lowly fisherman. "
Bel
Aaron J. Bossig
news:1143494931.6...@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Does anyone have a clue, yet, as to what the industry is going to go
> with? I think MS has the right idea, releasing the 360 with a regular
> DVD rom, then talking about offering an external HD/Blue Ray DVD rom
> once they hit. I'd imagine once it does come out, and MS decides who
> they are going to back, they'll re-release the 360 with the HD/Blue Ray
> DVD rom already built in(and that'll be the day I buy one).
I think that's a terrible idea. Peripherals are always a tough sell in
the first place, putting it in halfway through the system's lifespan is
just suicide.
BelPowerslave
> > with? I think MS has the right idea, releasing the 360 with a regular
> > DVD rom, then talking about offering an external HD/Blue Ray DVD rom
> > once they hit. I'd imagine once it does come out, and MS decides who
> > they are going to back, they'll re-release the 360 with the HD/Blue Ray
> > DVD rom already built in(and that'll be the day I buy one).
>
> I think that's a terrible idea. Peripherals are always a tough sell in
> the first place, putting it in halfway through the system's lifespan is
> just suicide.
Well, but this isn't your typical peripheral...I mean, a lot of people
are going to buy the add-on simply to have a cheaper HD/Blue Ray DVD
player. I mean, look at how well the PS2 sold in Japan due to the fact
that it could play DVDs out of the box. God only knows how much the
industry is going to try to jack us for HD/Blue Ray players when they
first come out...so if I could get an entire game system that also
played HD/Blue Ray discs...that's a deal(imo).
I mean, look at how Sony managed to fuck buyers into that $50 network
adapter...then just months later release a new PS2 that was not only
thinner, but cheaper *and* included the adapter. I think MS can do the
same(assuming that HD/Blue Ray DVD roms are backwards compatible with
regular DVD discs, which I'm hearing they will be).
We'll see how it goes though...you could be right, it could be a huge
mistake.
Bel
Didimo
wrote:
>> Fair enough. I bought a Famicom + Disk system recently, and I still
>> play that more than my 64 or GC, so I understand :).
>
>My buddy has one of those disk systems, though he can't seem to get it
>to work lately. I've yet to see anything on it.
Disk Systems don't age well due to their transmission belt decaying
easily. Disks are also fragile, leading to many disk read errors. I'd
say that most the great games that came out on the Disk System
eventually came out on cartridge in the US. I enjoy Castlevania I b/c
it's more "forgiving" than the cart version, in that it saves the
level. I also like Super Mario 2 (which came out in the USA included
the SuperNES (or was it N64? My memory fails me) compilation, and
known as "the Lost Levels". I'm anxiously awaiting for my copy of 3D
Hot Rally, which, as said previously in this thread, is good. Some
games had some extra levels than their cart "alter-ego". I hear that
such is the case of another good game I own, Zanac; but I haven't been
able to verify (.. haven't gone past the 3rd level yet :) ] .
>> BTW: am I the only one who kind of dreams that at some point,
>> eventually, Sega could come out with a new console? : ).
>
>Oh, we dream about it constantly...but sadly, I think we've all given
>up on something like that ever coming down the pipe again. :(
Sigh. I know that. I loved the Saturn, and I still do (I have a large
collection of Japanese Sat. games, though, that's why : ). I carefully
avoided most of the the crappier US/Europe releases, and went hunting
for rarer gems such as Radiant Silvergun and (to a lesser extent)
Prikura Daisakusen, Princess Crown, Donpachi and Dodonpachi,
Soukyougurentai, and more.
My DC got more use than my Xbox360, PS2 and GC lately, thanks to the
new shooters (Radilgy and the excellent Under Defeat).
Sega always got me as excited about gaming as Nintendo does, in ways
which the PSX and PS2 never did, and in ways the Xbox does....
SOMETIMES (case in point: Panzer Dragoon Orta and Shenmue II...
incidentally SEGA games : )].
Ciao,
Simon
Didimo
>Oh man, I sure miss that system. My favorite games for it were Versus
>Excitebike and 3D Hot Rally. They are exeptional games that have stood
>the test of time and games I very much wish I could play now if only I
>could have our disk system up and running.
Thank you for the tip. I always enjoyed Excitebike in its cart form,
and I will start looking for the disk version... Although I'm afraid
that that will then push me to definitely look for a Famicom Basic
Keyboard, as I heard you can program your tracks with it on disk Vs.
Excitebike :) . I know, I'm sick and compulsive :) .
>
>> BTW: am I the only one who kind of dreams that at some point,
>> eventually, Sega could come out with a new console? : ).
>
>Like Bel, I've given up on this dream. If you look at history, you'll
>see the industry is only good for two major players. And it seems the
>battle will be raged on by Microsoft and Sony over the years to come.
>The transition from a first to third party developer has had it's ups
>and downs for Sega and it's fans and I realise how this generation
>(128-bit) has fragmented their past efforts and consequently the need
>to own multiple consoles to enjoy their best games.
I agree, alas, I do. Especially since Yu Suzuki has just left Sega,
the dream is totally gone, I'm afraid...
Ciao,
Simon
Didimo
wrote:
>Does anyone have a clue, yet, as to what the industry is going to go
>with? I think MS has the right idea, releasing the 360 with a regular
>DVD rom, then talking about offering an external HD/Blue Ray DVD rom
>once they hit.
I feel that Microsoft has made the right choice in light of the fact
that they came out with their new machine when they did. The whole
issue of HD / Blue Ray is still too open for M to be able to make a
wise choice. Besides, including the new format at that moment would
have meant 300/400$ more in final price, probably. When PS3 finally
launches, it will be less expensive to manufacture blue ray/HD drives
and/or media.
Hey, I like my 360. My only problem is that I play Geometry Wars more
than any "regular" game!
Ciao,
Simon
Scott H
>>> Does anyone have a clue, yet, as to what the industry is going to go
>>> with? I think MS has the right idea, releasing the 360 with a regular
>>> DVD rom, then talking about offering an external HD/Blue Ray DVD rom
>>> once they hit. I'd imagine once it does come out, and MS decides who
>>> they are going to back, they'll re-release the 360 with the HD/Blue Ray
>>> DVD rom already built in(and that'll be the day I buy one).
>> I think that's a terrible idea. Peripherals are always a tough sell in
>> the first place, putting it in halfway through the system's lifespan is
>> just suicide.
>
> Well, but this isn't your typical peripheral...I mean, a lot of people
> are going to buy the add-on simply to have a cheaper HD/Blue Ray DVD
> player. I mean, look at how well the PS2 sold in Japan due to the fact
> that it could play DVDs out of the box. God only knows how much the
> industry is going to try to jack us for HD/Blue Ray players when they
> first come out...so if I could get an entire game system that also
> played HD/Blue Ray discs...that's a deal(imo).
I'm not convinced that significant numbers of people even realize the
difference between HD and SDTV quality DVDs. To warrant an additional
purchase of both an HD player, and HD versions of DVD movies they
already own, would be even more difficult to justify. As for the 360
add-on, remember that Peter Moore is the same guy who promised that the
Dreamcast was "modular" and that down the road they'd just upgrade the
chipset with more powerful, but backward compatible, chips to compete
for years to come. If there's an HD upgrade, they've pretty well stated
that it won't be for games, and it'd have to be external. Thus the
practicality of said upgrade is almost null.
> I mean, look at how Sony managed to fuck buyers into that $50 network
> adapter...then just months later release a new PS2 that was not only
> thinner, but cheaper *and* included the adapter. I think MS can do the
> same(assuming that HD/Blue Ray DVD roms are backwards compatible with
> regular DVD discs, which I'm hearing they will be).
> We'll see how it goes though...you could be right, it could be a huge
> mistake.
>
> Bel
>
azmun
> Thank you for the tip. I always enjoyed Excitebike in its cart form,
> and I will start looking for the disk version... Although I'm afraid
> that that will then push me to definitely look for a Famicom Basic
> Keyboard, as I heard you can program your tracks with it on disk Vs.
> Excitebike :) . I know, I'm sick and compulsive :) .
Yes, the original Excitebike was already awesome but Versus Excitebike
exceeds it in practically all aspects, most specially two player mode
(via split screen ala Sega Rally or Sonic 2). It's just a shame that
it was never released outside Japan.
Though I can't remember for sure, I think you could program and create
your own tracks using the regular/standard pads.
> I agree, alas, I do. Especially since Yu Suzuki has just left Sega,
> the dream is totally gone, I'm afraid...
Wow, never heard of this news. Can anyone else confirm this? It would
be a huge loss to Sega. When Tetsuya Mizuguchi left I was a bit sad.
I've read rumors about Yuji Naka leaving too but nothing official. If
Sega can't retain their top talents perhaps something went wrong with
their reorganizations (including the merger with Sammy).
BelPowerslave
> >> play that more than my 64 or GC, so I understand :).
> >
> >My buddy has one of those disk systems, though he can't seem to get it
> >to work lately. I've yet to see anything on it.
>
> Disk Systems don't age well due to their transmission belt decaying
> easily. Disks are also fragile, leading to many disk read errors. I'd
> say that most the great games that came out on the Disk System
> eventually came out on cartridge in the US. I enjoy Castlevania I b/c
> it's more "forgiving" than the cart version, in that it saves the
> level. I also like Super Mario 2 (which came out in the USA included
> the SuperNES (or was it N64? My memory fails me) compilation, and
> known as "the Lost Levels". I'm anxiously awaiting for my copy of 3D
> Hot Rally, which, as said previously in this thread, is good. Some
> games had some extra levels than their cart "alter-ego". I hear that
> such is the case of another good game I own, Zanac; but I haven't been
> able to verify (.. haven't gone past the 3rd level yet :) ] .
>
I don't really understand the disk system...why did Nintendo feel they
needed to bring it out with the NES already dominating(or did it make it
out before the NES/Famicom)?
>
> >> BTW: am I the only one who kind of dreams that at some point,
> >> eventually, Sega could come out with a new console? : ).
> >
> >Oh, we dream about it constantly...but sadly, I think we've all given
> >up on something like that ever coming down the pipe again. :(
>
> Sigh. I know that. I loved the Saturn, and I still do (I have a large
> collection of Japanese Sat. games, though, that's why : ). I carefully
> avoided most of the the crappier US/Europe releases, and went hunting
> for rarer gems such as Radiant Silvergun and (to a lesser extent)
> Prikura Daisakusen, Princess Crown, Donpachi and Dodonpachi,
> Soukyougurentai, and more.
>
That's the way to go with the Saturn. :)
>
> My DC got more use than my Xbox360, PS2 and GC lately, thanks to the
> new shooters (Radilgy and the excellent Under Defeat).
I still ponder a 360...
>
> Sega always got me as excited about gaming as Nintendo does, in ways
> which the PSX and PS2 never did, and in ways the Xbox does....
> SOMETIMES (case in point: Panzer Dragoon Orta and Shenmue II...
> incidentally SEGA games : )].
>
Though I feel they are all great systems, I know what you mean. There's
just something about a Sega-made system that gets me all sorts of happy. :)
Bel
--
Whip Ass Gaming: http://www.whipassgaming.com/
"Time to rub your face in it...with my ass. I'm so much better than you."
- Trixie, Outlaw Volleyball
BelPowerslave
> >with? I think MS has the right idea, releasing the 360 with a regular
> >DVD rom, then talking about offering an external HD/Blue Ray DVD rom
> >once they hit.
>
> I feel that Microsoft has made the right choice in light of the fact
> that they came out with their new machine when they did.
Agreed.
> The whole
> issue of HD / Blue Ray is still too open for M to be able to make a
> wise choice.
With the industry not even knowing that they are going to go with, it'll
be tough for anyone to figure it out(and I think MS was wise to just go
with a plain DVD Rom for the time being).
> Besides, including the new format at that moment would
> have meant 300/400$ more in final price, probably. When PS3 finally
> launches, it will be less expensive to manufacture blue ray/HD drives
> and/or media.
Yup, that's what I'd guess as well.
>
> Hey, I like my 360. My only problem is that I play Geometry Wars more
> than any "regular" game!
>
What is Geometry Wars?
Bel
--
Whip Ass Gaming: http://www.whipassgaming.com/
"Time to rub your face in it...with my ass. I'm so much better than you."
- Trixie, Outlaw Volleyball
BelPowerslave
> > are going to buy the add-on simply to have a cheaper HD/Blue Ray DVD
> > player. I mean, look at how well the PS2 sold in Japan due to the fact
> > that it could play DVDs out of the box. God only knows how much the
> > industry is going to try to jack us for HD/Blue Ray players when they
> > first come out...so if I could get an entire game system that also
> > played HD/Blue Ray discs...that's a deal(imo).
>
> I'm not convinced that significant numbers of people even realize the
> difference between HD and SDTV quality DVDs.
Hmmmm, could be right...I have no idea what a SDTV DVD is.
> To warrant an additional
> purchase of both an HD player, and HD versions of DVD movies they
> already own, would be even more difficult to justify.
Well, but this time it's not like it was back when everyone(myself included) was
dumping VHS tapes by the boatload so they could be replaced with DVDs. This time
around, you'll only really want to move up to HD/Blue Ray DVDs for certain films.
I mean, think about it, you *want* Blade II in super high res...you almost need
it(I know I do), but stuff like Groundhog Day...do you really want to go back and
buy again? ;) Naw. It's good, but it's not good enough to go back and replace
the older DVD version that'll still play in your HD/Blue Ray player.
> As for the 360
> add-on, remember that Peter Moore is the same guy who promised that the
> Dreamcast was "modular" and that down the road they'd just upgrade the
> chipset with more powerful, but backward compatible, chips to compete
> for years to come. If there's an HD upgrade, they've pretty well stated
> that it won't be for games, and it'd have to be external. Thus the
> practicality of said upgrade is almost null.
>
Well, and not to sound like a broken record here...but I can really see MS
putting out a second edition 360 that has the HD/Blue Ray drive in it. MS, Sony,
Sega, Apple, etc, noone even remotely cares about the people who buy early...past
that initial sale. Look at Sony, they fucked PS2 owners...and hard with that new
thin-ass PS2 that has the network adapter built in, and a better DVD Rom drive.
Noone seemed to throw a fit. Not only that, but fucked over anyone who bought the
HD and still no outrage(btw, if I were a speculating man, I'd almost guess that
that single move of making the new PS2 non-compatible with the HD is what pissed
Square off enough to bring that online FF to the Xbox 360).
You may be right, the external HD/Blue Ray drive may never materialize and if it
does, it may be entirely too expensive and just flop hard...but those 360's with
them built into the systems are going to fly off the shelves because HD/Blue Ray
players are going to be so expensive to begin with.
Imagine it: Just guessing, let's say $200 for an HD/Blue Ray player. Now, let's
guess than the 360, or PS3, with it built in is around $400. $200 more and you
get not only the player, but an entire gaming system as well. Not a bad deal, and
with gaming so amazingly mainstream nowadays, I can see it as a major selling
point.
Again, it could just be me though... :)
Bel
--
Whip Ass Gaming: http://www.whipassgaming.com/
"Time to rub your face in it...with my ass. I'm so much better than you."
- Trixie, Outlaw Volleyball
Didimo
>> I agree, alas, I do. Especially since Yu Suzuki has just left Sega,
[SNIP!]
>
>Wow, never heard of this news. Can anyone else confirm this? It would
>be a huge loss to Sega. When Tetsuya Mizuguchi left I was a bit sad.
>I've read rumors about Yuji Naka leaving too but nothing official.
[SNIP!]
OOPSS!!! SORRY!! I meant Yuji Naka. HUGE mistake on my part. Hope
nobody committed harakiri b/c of me : ).
See here:
http://www.jeux-france.com/news14988_yuji-naka-quitte-sega-.html
It's in French, sorry... it's quite a reliable site.
>Yes, the original Excitebike was already awesome but Versus Excitebike
>exceeds it in practically all aspects, most specially two player mode
>(via split screen ala Sega Rally or Sonic 2). It's just a shame that
>it was never released outside Japan.
WOW, AWESOME! I'll get one!
>
>Though I can't remember for sure, I think you could program and create
>your own tracks using the regular/standard pads.
That seems possible. Neat!
Ciao,
Simon
Didimo
<belpow...@ev1.net> wrote:
>> Hey, I like my 360. My only problem is that I play Geometry Wars more
>> than any "regular" game!
>>
>
>What is Geometry Wars?
Geometry Wars Retro Evolved is downloadable from Xbox Live on Xbox360.
It's a space shooter which, IMHO, can be defined as a cross between
Asteroids and Robotron 2084. Minimalist-looking retro graphics, but
which at the same time benefit from HD. Effective sound effects, and,
most of all, EXTREMELY well-balanced gameplay. It's one of those "just
one more game and then I'll stop" type of games.
Ciao,
Simon
Didimo
<belpow...@ev1.net> wrote:
>I don't really understand the disk system...why did Nintendo feel they
>needed to bring it out with the NES already dominating(or did it make it
>out before the NES/Famicom)?
The disk system is a Famicom an add-on which came out at a time when
larger, battery-save carts would still be too expensive to be
feasable. It was a way of offering more complex games on cheaper
supports. Althought it sold extremely well in Japan, problems arose
soon after its release. It was too easy to copy disk games, and piracy
of disk system games became rampant in the Far East. Then only about a
year later memory chips came down substantially in price.
Games like Zelda, Super Mario Bros 2, Castlevania II and III initially
came out on the disk system, before the times of the NES, and only
later came out on cartridge.
The Famicom + disk system all-in-one unit is called Twin Famicom and
was manufactured by Sharp, not by Nintendo. I am still looking for one
of those in the box.
>> My DC got more use than my Xbox360, PS2 and GC lately, thanks to the
>> new shooters (Radilgy and the excellent Under Defeat).
>
>I still ponder a 360...
I totallly understand. I was going to wait... But then again I am a
hopelessly addicted videogame junkie : ).
>> Sega always got me as excited about gaming as Nintendo does, in ways
>> which the PSX and PS2 never did, and in ways the Xbox does....
>> SOMETIMES (case in point: Panzer Dragoon Orta and Shenmue II...
>> incidentally SEGA games : )].
>Though I feel they are all great systems, I know what you mean. There's
>just something about a Sega-made system that gets me all sorts of happy. :)
YES! That's exactly how Sega and Nintendo always made me feel!
Although to be honest I was feeling that way for the release of the
PSP, too. I could barely sleep the night before launch date, I was too
excited... It's a great machine, but so far I am less than thrilled
with the games...
Ciao,
Simon
Scott H
>>> Well, but this isn't your typical peripheral...I mean, a lot of people
>>> are going to buy the add-on simply to have a cheaper HD/Blue Ray DVD
>>> player. I mean, look at how well the PS2 sold in Japan due to the fact
>>> that it could play DVDs out of the box. God only knows how much the
>>> industry is going to try to jack us for HD/Blue Ray players when they
>>> first come out...so if I could get an entire game system that also
>>> played HD/Blue Ray discs...that's a deal(imo).
>> I'm not convinced that significant numbers of people even realize the
>> difference between HD and SDTV quality DVDs.
>
> Hmmmm, could be right...I have no idea what a SDTV DVD is.
SDTV is what regular TV sets are. At least, I think that's the term...
>> To warrant an additional
>> purchase of both an HD player, and HD versions of DVD movies they
>> already own, would be even more difficult to justify.
>
> Well, but this time it's not like it was back when everyone(myself included) was
> dumping VHS tapes by the boatload so they could be replaced with DVDs. This time
> around, you'll only really want to move up to HD/Blue Ray DVDs for certain films.
> I mean, think about it, you *want* Blade II in super high res...you almost need
> it(I know I do), but stuff like Groundhog Day...do you really want to go back and
> buy again? ;) Naw. It's good, but it's not good enough to go back and replace
> the older DVD version that'll still play in your HD/Blue Ray player.
Right, and some of the press releases I have read recently implied
that Blue Ray players would not support DVD while HD players would.
That is, I suppose, unless they want to put ambidextrious lasers in the
Blue Ray players, like the ever reliable PS2 laser.
>> As for the 360
>> add-on, remember that Peter Moore is the same guy who promised that the
>> Dreamcast was "modular" and that down the road they'd just upgrade the
>> chipset with more powerful, but backward compatible, chips to compete
>> for years to come. If there's an HD upgrade, they've pretty well stated
>> that it won't be for games, and it'd have to be external. Thus the
>> practicality of said upgrade is almost null.
>>
>
> Well, and not to sound like a broken record here...but I can really see MS
> putting out a second edition 360 that has the HD/Blue Ray drive in it. MS, Sony,
> Sega, Apple, etc, noone even remotely cares about the people who buy early...past
> that initial sale. Look at Sony, they fucked PS2 owners...and hard with that new
> thin-ass PS2 that has the network adapter built in, and a better DVD Rom drive.
> Noone seemed to throw a fit. Not only that, but fucked over anyone who bought the
> HD and still no outrage(btw, if I were a speculating man, I'd almost guess that
> that single move of making the new PS2 non-compatible with the HD is what pissed
> Square off enough to bring that online FF to the Xbox 360).
>
> You may be right, the external HD/Blue Ray drive may never materialize and if it
> does, it may be entirely too expensive and just flop hard...but those 360's with
> them built into the systems are going to fly off the shelves because HD/Blue Ray
> players are going to be so expensive to begin with.
It's possible that they do this, I agree, I just don't know of any
precedent for a single game console with multiple media formats. Oh
wait, that'd be the Genesis! The main thing I'm seeing with the 360
add-on promise is that Sony is tauting the BlueRay drive in the PS3 as
being almost solely responsible for the PS3's "high def" status in
games. In other words, their fans are going to assume that not having
an HD format disc drive means that somehow 360 games are not "high def",
at least not *as* "high def" as PS3 games "will be". So, Peter Moore
has covered his bases, promising that if HD formats become important to
gaming, then there will be an add-on. Meanwhile Sony's covering two
bases as well, they want their proprietary BlueRay format to become
industry standard for all those movie and game royalty fees, and they
can use twisted logic to claim that the PS3 has the highest quality
components for "maximum video quality/clarity", ignoring the fact that
BlueRay will only assist games by allowing for *EVEN MORE* meaningless
FMV sequences.
> Imagine it: Just guessing, let's say $200 for an HD/Blue Ray player. Now, let's
> guess than the 360, or PS3, with it built in is around $400. $200 more and you
> get not only the player, but an entire gaming system as well. Not a bad deal, and
> with gaming so amazingly mainstream nowadays, I can see it as a major selling
> point.
>
> Again, it could just be me though... :)
Price would be everything, that, and how many movies are actually
available on the store shelves to play on the new format (games which
truly use and need HD format discs are at least a generation off yet).
> Bel
> --
> Whip Ass Gaming: http://www.whipassgaming.com/
>
> "Time to rub your face in it...with my ass. I'm so much better than you."
> - Trixie, Outlaw Volleyball
>
>
benstylus
> On 27 Mar 2006 20:49:18 -0800, "azmun" <rtd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>I agree, alas, I do. Especially since Yu Suzuki has just left Sega,
>
> [SNIP!]
>
>>Wow, never heard of this news. Can anyone else confirm this? It would
>>be a huge loss to Sega. When Tetsuya Mizuguchi left I was a bit sad.
>>I've read rumors about Yuji Naka leaving too but nothing official.
>
> [SNIP!]
>
>
> OOPSS!!! SORRY!! I meant Yuji Naka. HUGE mistake on my part. Hope
> nobody committed harakiri b/c of me : ).
> See here:
>
> http://www.jeux-france.com/news14988_yuji-naka-quitte-sega-.html
>
> It's in French, sorry... it's quite a reliable site.
>
>
left - it's that he may be leaving. It's still a rumor right now though.
Dan
Doesn't anyone think it's bad the console doesn't use roms downloaded
for free off the net? If I was to use the Rev to play games I own
anyway, I'm not going to find it worth my while to pay to own them on
another console. It seems to have no advantage over emulation on PC's.
Also, I've heard games such as the N64's WWF games won't be for sale,
as they contain the now defunct WWF logo, and to be able to sell it,
they'd need to change the logos and such.
Didimo
wrote:
>> OOPSS!!! SORRY!! I meant Yuji Naka. HUGE mistake on my part. Hope
>> nobody committed harakiri b/c of me : ).
>> See here:
>>
>> http://www.jeux-france.com/news14988_yuji-naka-quitte-sega-.html
>>
>> It's in French, sorry... it's quite a reliable site.
>>
>>
>Yeah, every other site reported the same thing, but it's not that he
>left - it's that he may be leaving. It's still a rumor right now though.
Cool, thanks : ). I'm definitely happier that way :) .
Ciao,
Simon
BelPowerslave
> >> than any "regular" game!
> >>
> >
> >What is Geometry Wars?
>
> Geometry Wars Retro Evolved is downloadable from Xbox Live on Xbox360.
> It's a space shooter which, IMHO, can be defined as a cross between
> Asteroids and Robotron 2084. Minimalist-looking retro graphics, but
> which at the same time benefit from HD. Effective sound effects, and,
> most of all, EXTREMELY well-balanced gameplay. It's one of those "just
> one more game and then I'll stop" type of games.
Hmmmm, interesting. I'm hearing that 360's "Arcade" section is much,
much better than the shitty selection of titles they made available on
the Xbox(basically, a lot of flash-based games). I was really happy to
hear that UMK3 will be making it to the 360 Arcade, and will be online
playable. I am praying that this doesn't kill its chance to make it on
a MAT compilation though(for the regular Xbox).
Bel
BelPowerslave
> >needed to bring it out with the NES already dominating(or did it make it
> >out before the NES/Famicom)?
>
> The disk system is a Famicom an add-on which came out at a time when
> larger, battery-save carts would still be too expensive to be
> feasable. It was a way of offering more complex games on cheaper
> supports. Althought it sold extremely well in Japan, problems arose
> soon after its release. It was too easy to copy disk games, and piracy
> of disk system games became rampant in the Far East. Then only about a
> year later memory chips came down substantially in price.
> Games like Zelda, Super Mario Bros 2, Castlevania II and III initially
> came out on the disk system, before the times of the NES, and only
> later came out on cartridge.
Are the graphics and/or sound *any* different than their NES
counterparts?
> The Famicom + disk system all-in-one unit is called Twin Famicom and
> was manufactured by Sharp, not by Nintendo. I am still looking for one
> of those in the box.
My buddy was going to attempt to sell his Famicom disk system, but with
the fact that we can't get it to run, it about killed that. If you know
anyone who is looking for one just to mess with, or for parts(and the
possibility that it still does work), let me know. I can ask him what
he's looking to get for it.
> >I still ponder a 360...
>
> I totallly understand. I was going to wait... But then again I am a
> hopelessly addicted videogame junkie : ).
Well, I'm not real thrilled with the line up...certainly not as much as
I am about just the fact that every game is in HD. I'm looking to get
an HD set here in a bit, and the 360 would be nice way to compliment
that. Of course, I may wait until we see what the industry goes with in
terms of HD DVDs...
> >Though I feel they are all great systems, I know what you mean. There's
> >just something about a Sega-made system that gets me all sorts of happy. :)
>
> YES! That's exactly how Sega and Nintendo always made me feel!
> Although to be honest I was feeling that way for the release of the
> PSP, too. I could barely sleep the night before launch date, I was too
> excited... It's a great machine, but so far I am less than thrilled
> with the games...
Like the GBA is to the SNES, the PSP really is nothing but a slightly
more powerful PSX. I love how they tout it to be as powerful as the
PS2...then you look at the games and they look like PSX games with 3D
acceleration and some bilinear filtering. If the price didn't already
kill it for me, this definitely would. ;)
Bel
BelPowerslave
>
> SDTV is what regular TV sets are. At least, I think that's the term...
Oh, ok, I thought you were talking about a new type of TV or DVD.
> > Well, but this time it's not like it was back when everyone(myself included) was
> > dumping VHS tapes by the boatload so they could be replaced with DVDs. This time
> > around, you'll only really want to move up to HD/Blue Ray DVDs for certain films.
> > I mean, think about it, you *want* Blade II in super high res...you almost need
> > it(I know I do), but stuff like Groundhog Day...do you really want to go back and
> > buy again? ;) Naw. It's good, but it's not good enough to go back and replace
> > the older DVD version that'll still play in your HD/Blue Ray player.
>
> Right, and some of the press releases I have read recently implied
> that Blue Ray players would not support DVD while HD players would.
> That is, I suppose, unless they want to put ambidextrious lasers in the
> Blue Ray players, like the ever reliable PS2 laser.
Hmmmmm, well, that would suck if Blue Ray didn't allow you to play
older DVDs...but I don't see how that'd be right, figuring as they are
touting that the PS3 is supposed to be able to play PS2 games(all on
DVD).
> > You may be right, the external HD/Blue Ray drive may never materialize and if it
> > does, it may be entirely too expensive and just flop hard...but those 360's with
> > them built into the systems are going to fly off the shelves because HD/Blue Ray
> > players are going to be so expensive to begin with.
>
> It's possible that they do this, I agree, I just don't know of any
> precedent for a single game console with multiple media formats. Oh
> wait, that'd be the Genesis!
Well, now it's important to note that I don't believe that once(or if)
the Xbox 360 comes with an HD/Blur Ray DVD rom, or external, that games
are going to start coming out on that format. I think they'll still
stick with the DVD format, as not to cut off half their userbase...and
just because DVD is not a bad format at all.
The main thing I'm seeing with the 360
> add-on promise is that Sony is tauting the BlueRay drive in the PS3 as
> being almost solely responsible for the PS3's "high def" status in
> games. In other words, their fans are going to assume that not having
> an HD format disc drive means that somehow 360 games are not "high def",
> at least not *as* "high def" as PS3 games "will be".
You're probably right, the idiots will think that it's the drive and/or
disc that's responsible for the HD output, and not the system itself.
So, Peter Moore
> has covered his bases, promising that if HD formats become important to
> gaming, then there will be an add-on. Meanwhile Sony's covering two
> bases as well, they want their proprietary BlueRay format to become
> industry standard for all those movie and game royalty fees, and they
> can use twisted logic to claim that the PS3 has the highest quality
> components for "maximum video quality/clarity", ignoring the fact that
> BlueRay will only assist games by allowing for *EVEN MORE* meaningless
> FMV sequences.
True, true. Thing is, Sony really isn't "the industry" and I think we
all saw that with the Mini Disc(ha, ha, I still laugh when I think
about what a huge flop that was). It's kind of like when you look at
the PSP movie selection: It's almost all Sony Pictures movies...and, as
you know, there ain't a whole lot. If Sony thinks that they are going
to tell and entire industry "Hey you fuckers, we're going with Blue
Ray, so you better jump on board", I think they may be getting ready
for a huge slap in the face. In terms of piracy prevention though, if
the industry goes with HD DVD, with PS3 games all being in the Blue Ray
format, it'll be hard to copy(at first). I can see Sony going with Blue
Ray, and their movie selection will be just like the PSP's: Really
sparse, and really expensive. ;) It'll also be kind of amusing because
those stickers you see, on certain DVDs, that say "Playstation 2
compatible", when they put "PS3 Compatible", it'll almost become a
warning for the HD DVD Player-owning consumer...;)
> > Imagine it: Just guessing, let's say $200 for an HD/Blue Ray player. Now, let's
> > guess than the 360, or PS3, with it built in is around $400. $200 more and you
> > get not only the player, but an entire gaming system as well. Not a bad deal, and
> > with gaming so amazingly mainstream nowadays, I can see it as a major selling
> > point.
> >
> > Again, it could just be me though... :)
>
> Price would be everything, that, and how many movies are actually
> available on the store shelves to play on the new format (games which
> truly use and need HD format discs are at least a generation off yet).
I agree, we aren't going to be seeing any system coming out that will
be HD DVD-only for quite a while(except for the PS3, of course, with
Blue Ray). I am really hoping the industry goes with HD DVD...and I
guess we'll find out this fall...
Bel
BelPowerslave
> > nobody committed harakiri b/c of me : ).
> > See here:
> >
> > http://www.jeux-france.com/news14988_yuji-naka-quitte-sega-.html
> >
> > It's in French, sorry... it's quite a reliable site.
> >
> >
> Yeah, every other site reported the same thing, but it's not that he
> left - it's that he may be leaving. It's still a rumor right now though.
I can see him leaving and either A) working for Nintendo directly or B)
starting up his own game company. I'd guess, with his constant boner
for the GameCube(and, no doubt, the fucking Revolution and its
"wonderful" controller) he'll go the Nintendo route. As Sega owns the
Sonic character, I'd imagine they'd keep going with it...just letting
different developers handle it(hey, Sonic 2, 3 and S&K were exellent).
:)
Bel
BelPowerslave
>
> Doesn't anyone think it's bad the console doesn't use roms downloaded
> for free off the net?
Just give it time, the hackers will find a way...;)
If I was to use the Rev to play games I own
> anyway, I'm not going to find it worth my while to pay to own them on
> another console. It seems to have no advantage over emulation on PC's.
Agreed.
> Also, I've heard games such as the N64's WWF games won't be for sale,
> as they contain the now defunct WWF logo, and to be able to sell it,
> they'd need to change the logos and such.
Yeah, you can bet that little things like that are going to be showing
up all over the place, and cutting the library down at the knees a lot
of the time. Also, with this bullshit trend of not including the
original music in these compilations and whatnot, you can bet a lot of
games are going to have their original soundtrack ripped out and
replaced with some single, generic tune that'll play throughout the
entire game(like Konami fucked us with on the TMNT arcade games
included in TMNT2: Battle Nexus) OR they'll just completely remove the
soundtrack all together(like fucking Activision did with the Quake II
compilation included with Quake IV: DVD edition).
Bel
Didimo
wrote:
>> The disk system is a Famicom an add-on which came out at a time when
>> larger, battery-save carts would still be too expensive to be
>> feasable. [SNIP!]
>Are the graphics and/or sound *any* different than their NES
>counterparts?
No, the same. It would simply allow for larger games/more level/saves
at a time when large-sized, battery back-up cartridges would still be
too expensive to manufacture.
>My buddy was going to attempt to sell his Famicom disk system, but with
>the fact that we can't get it to run, it about killed that. If you know
>anyone who is looking for one just to mess with, or for parts(and the
>possibility that it still does work), let me know. I can ask him what
>he's looking to get for it.
Mmhh. It's probably the usual "belt" issue. I suggest he buys a cheap
replacement belt from Japan via Ebay, and then follows the guides
(available online) on how to repair it. Once working, he could make
more than decent money for that. I paid about $200 for my Famicom 1 +
Disk System + 2 games, and then I bought a new Famicom 2 AV system (my
tv wasn't able to display the famicom 1 RF signal properly).
>> >I still ponder a 360...
>>
>> I totallly understand. I was going to wait... But then again I am a
>> hopelessly addicted videogame junkie : ).
>
>Well, I'm not real thrilled with the line up...certainly not as much as
>I am about just the fact that every game is in HD.
Neither was I. But I do like racing games A LOT, and Ridge Racer 6 and
PRG 3 are great. I play more with the 360 arcade downloads, though :
). Yep, it does look (and sound) awesome on a HD TV + 5.1 sound system
: ).
>> [SNIP!] PSP, too. I could barely sleep the night before launch date, I was too
>> excited... It's a great machine, but so far I am less than thrilled
>> with the games...
>
>Like the GBA is to the SNES, the PSP really is nothing but a slightly
>more powerful PSX. I love how they tout it to be as powerful as the
>PS2...then you look at the games and they look like PSX games with 3D
>acceleration and some bilinear filtering. If the price didn't already
>kill it for me, this definitely would. ;)
Yep. I'm not using it much indeed. Great screen, though. I'm still
hoping they'd come out with some decent games REALLY MEANT for TRUE
portable play. Something "immediate" like Tetris DS, rather than GTA,
which although a great game is meant to be played on a home system,
rather than on the go...
Ciao,
Simon
Scott H
>> Right, and some of the press releases I have read recently implied
>> that Blue Ray players would not support DVD while HD players would.
>> That is, I suppose, unless they want to put ambidextrious lasers in the
>> Blue Ray players, like the ever reliable PS2 laser.
>
> Hmmmmm, well, that would suck if Blue Ray didn't allow you to play
> older DVDs...but I don't see how that'd be right, figuring as they are
> touting that the PS3 is supposed to be able to play PS2 games(all on
> DVD).
If they do, I think they have to have special lasers that can read
both, while the HDDVD technology is similar enough that the laser can
read DVDs and HD DVDs.
>>> You may be right, the external HD/Blue Ray drive may never materialize and if it
>>> does, it may be entirely too expensive and just flop hard...but those 360's with
>>> them built into the systems are going to fly off the shelves because HD/Blue Ray
>>> players are going to be so expensive to begin with.
>> It's possible that they do this, I agree, I just don't know of any
>> precedent for a single game console with multiple media formats. Oh
>> wait, that'd be the Genesis!
>
> Well, now it's important to note that I don't believe that once(or if)
> the Xbox 360 comes with an HD/Blur Ray DVD rom, or external, that games
> are going to start coming out on that format. I think they'll still
> stick with the DVD format, as not to cut off half their userbase...and
> just because DVD is not a bad format at all.
Heck, they could have done this generation on GD-ROM, the Gamecube
is proof enough of that. With sound chips like the Dreamcast's they
didn't even need streaming audio, chip sound is great and saves space.
DVD format will be more than enough for games, games don't need 3 hours
of HD resolution movie files.
> The main thing I'm seeing with the 360
>> add-on promise is that Sony is tauting the BlueRay drive in the PS3 as
>> being almost solely responsible for the PS3's "high def" status in
>> games. In other words, their fans are going to assume that not having
>> an HD format disc drive means that somehow 360 games are not "high def",
>> at least not *as* "high def" as PS3 games "will be".
>
> You're probably right, the idiots will think that it's the drive and/or
> disc that's responsible for the HD output, and not the system itself.
I've seen at least two press releases on Gamespot where Kuturagi was
saying this.
> So, Peter Moore
>> has covered his bases, promising that if HD formats become important to
>> gaming, then there will be an add-on. Meanwhile Sony's covering two
>> bases as well, they want their proprietary BlueRay format to become
>> industry standard for all those movie and game royalty fees, and they
>> can use twisted logic to claim that the PS3 has the highest quality
>> components for "maximum video quality/clarity", ignoring the fact that
>> BlueRay will only assist games by allowing for *EVEN MORE* meaningless
>> FMV sequences.
>
> True, true. Thing is, Sony really isn't "the industry" and I think we
> all saw that with the Mini Disc(ha, ha, I still laugh when I think
> about what a huge flop that was). It's kind of like when you look at
> the PSP movie selection: It's almost all Sony Pictures movies...and, as
> you know, there ain't a whole lot. If Sony thinks that they are going
> to tell and entire industry "Hey you fuckers, we're going with Blue
> Ray, so you better jump on board", I think they may be getting ready
> for a huge slap in the face. In terms of piracy prevention though, if
> the industry goes with HD DVD, with PS3 games all being in the Blue Ray
> format, it'll be hard to copy(at first). I can see Sony going with Blue
> Ray, and their movie selection will be just like the PSP's: Really
> sparse, and really expensive. ;) It'll also be kind of amusing because
> those stickers you see, on certain DVDs, that say "Playstation 2
> compatible", when they put "PS3 Compatible", it'll almost become a
> warning for the HD DVD Player-owning consumer...;)
I hope you're right, and the UMD format was just a bad idea for movies
with portable DVD players out there already. I was just waiting for
that one to fall through.
>>> Imagine it: Just guessing, let's say $200 for an HD/Blue Ray player. Now, let's
>>> guess than the 360, or PS3, with it built in is around $400. $200 more and you
>>> get not only the player, but an entire gaming system as well. Not a bad deal, and
>>> with gaming so amazingly mainstream nowadays, I can see it as a major selling
>>> point.
>>>
>>> Again, it could just be me though... :)
>> Price would be everything, that, and how many movies are actually
>> available on the store shelves to play on the new format (games which
>> truly use and need HD format discs are at least a generation off yet).
>
> I agree, we aren't going to be seeing any system coming out that will
> be HD DVD-only for quite a while(except for the PS3, of course, with
> Blue Ray). I am really hoping the industry goes with HD DVD...and I
> guess we'll find out this fall...
The danged thing just needs to come out already, so everybody can get
over the "shock" that it's just an Xbox 360 with "PS3" painted on it. ;)
> Bel
Eiji Hayashi
> Does anyone have a clue, yet, as to what the industry is going to go
> with? I think MS has the right idea, releasing the 360 with a regular
> DVD rom, then talking about offering an external HD/Blue Ray DVD rom
> they are going to back, they'll re-release the 360 with the HD/Blue Ray
> DVD rom already built in(and that'll be the day I buy one).
>
how is that going to help developers? releasing an add-on drive after
the winner has been decided means it's limited strictly to a movie
playing device. What's the point of that? Developers aren't going to
split their userbase by putting their games on a format only some of
the userbase can play. With BR built-in developers have 50 Gigs of
capacity they can do lots of things with, for example, put on multiple
language versions of the game as suggested by the PS3 region free
announcement. External movie-playing add-ons are pointless, especially
from the sound of things they won't cost substantially less than a
stand-alone player.
Eiji Hayashi
> Well, but this isn't your typical peripheral...I mean, a lot of people
> are going to buy the add-on simply to have a cheaper HD/Blue Ray DVD
> player. I mean, look at how well the PS2 sold in Japan due to the fact
why would they do that when they can buy a PS3?
> that it could play DVDs out of the box. God only knows how much the
exactly.. it had it out of the box, the 360 CAN'T
> industry is going to try to jack us for HD/Blue Ray players when they
> first come out...so if I could get an entire game system that also
> played HD/Blue Ray discs...that's a deal(imo).
>
> I mean, look at how Sony managed to fuck buyers into that $50 network
> adapter...then just months later release a new PS2 that was not only
> thinner, but cheaper *and* included the adapter. I think MS can do the
please don't make me spank you Bel. The network adapter was available
as early as summer 2001 while the slim PS2s didn't arrive until
Christmas 2004.. months later indeed
> same(assuming that HD/Blue Ray DVD roms are backwards compatible with
> regular DVD discs, which I'm hearing they will be).
see my other post about BR drive for games and movies, as oppose to
strictly an add-on movie player
Eiji Hayashi
> I'm not convinced that significant numbers of people even realize the
> difference between HD and SDTV quality DVDs. To warrant an additional
> purchase of both an HD player, and HD versions of DVD movies they
> already own, would be even more difficult to justify. As for the 360
there's no such thing as highdef DVDs, DVDs are only 480p, ie: NOT HD.
Yeah sure you can cheat by getting a line doubler but anybody that's
seen a native 720p signal versus an upsampled one will tell you, it's
not the same thing. Neither of the next gen format pushers are stupid,
they know they can't ram it down our throats and force us to rebuy all
our movies, that's why both formats are backwards compatible with DVDs.
Also, BR is so big that you can fit both the HD and standard DVD
versions of the movie on the same disc, removing the need to buy
multiple copies of new movies that are released.
> add-on, remember that Peter Moore is the same guy who promised that the
> Dreamcast was "modular" and that down the road they'd just upgrade the
> chipset with more powerful, but backward compatible, chips to compete
> for years to come. If there's an HD upgrade, they've pretty well stated
> that it won't be for games, and it'd have to be external. Thus the
> practicality of said upgrade is almost null.
Bel behold.. Scott does have his common sense moments
Eiji Hayashi
> If they do, I think they have to have special lasers that can read
> both, while the HDDVD technology is similar enough that the laser can
> read DVDs and HD DVDs.
no.. that would be too expensive. Instead they simply put a red laser
in there as well. That's how both HDDVD and BR are doing it.
> I hope you're right, and the UMD format was just a bad idea for movies
> with portable DVD players out there already. I was just waiting for
> that one to fall through.
hate to be the spoiler of a good moment but UMDs are doing quite well
right now in terms of sales (I know.. I can scarecely believe it
myself)
> The danged thing just needs to come out already, so everybody can get
> over the "shock" that it's just an Xbox 360 with "PS3" painted on it. ;)
except it has a next generation media, 1080p through HDMI, dual monitor
support, FULLY backwards compatible (unlike that BS "backwards
compatibility" that 360 claims), and my favorite.. region free (no
reason not to play imports anymore).
li...@mcmaster.ca
> Well, and not to sound like a broken record here...but I can really see MS
> putting out a second edition 360 that has the HD/Blue Ray drive in it. MS, Sony,
which would be useless for games because what developer would put their
games on a format that only some users can use. Sigh! why do I even
have to explain this again? How can you not see this?
> Sega, Apple, etc, noone even remotely cares about the people who buy early...past
> that initial sale. Look at Sony, they fucked PS2 owners...and hard with that new
> thin-ass PS2 that has the network adapter built in, and a better DVD Rom drive.
ok.. now your warped logic is starting to get irritating. Sony is
giving new buyers MORE things, for the same money because they were
able to reduce the cost of their machines, and pass the savings on to
their consumers and you still have a problem with that? so let me get
this straight.. first you blame Sony for not including the network
adaptor in the first place and give credit to Microsoft for putting it
in the Xbox (which I might add came out almost 2 years later), then
when they put it in the slim and gave new PS2 owners a progressive DVD
player to boot you have problem with that too? WTH? Is there anything
they COULD do to make you happy (other than cease to exist?). It's
damned if they do, and damned if they don't. Incidentally has Microsoft
given their users any more value-added on their console since they
launch? (other than replace the terrible Thompson drive?). I should
also point out that Sony put out the slim like 4 years AFTER it's
debut, which I should mention by that time, the Xbox had already pretty
much croaked (honestly.. what's the Xbox got left? I can't think of a
single exclusive).
> Noone seemed to throw a fit. Not only that, but fucked over anyone who bought the
> HD and still no outrage(btw, if I were a speculating man, I'd almost guess that
> that single move of making the new PS2 non-compatible with the HD is what pissed
> Square off enough to bring that online FF to the Xbox 360).
for starters, even as early as 2002 when SE was talking about FFXI they
were already saying they were consider putting it on the Xbox, but it
was the restrictive close-environment of LIVE that stopped that. After
MS gave in and adopted a more liberal policy on game companies hosting
their own servers SE brought it over to 360. You do know that FFXI on
360 runs on PlayOnline, and has not LIVE right? Second, while the slim
did screw over SE somewhat it wasn't a big loss. FFXI had already been
out for a year, (over 2 years in Japan), and it's sales had saturated.
> You may be right, the external HD/Blue Ray drive may never materialize and if it
> does, it may be entirely too expensive and just flop hard...but those 360's with
> them built into the systems are going to fly off the shelves because HD/Blue Ray
> players are going to be so expensive to begin with.
Sometimes I wonder about you Bel. How do you figure out MS coming out
years later with a system that come with a HD/BR player, which can only
be used for movies is going to fly off the shelf YEARS after the PS3
had already done the same.. out of the box? Can you justify that to me
somehow, I mean.. using some measure of economic principal and common
sense?
> Imagine it: Just guessing, let's say $200 for an HD/Blue Ray player. Now, let's
> guess than the 360, or PS3, with it built in is around $400. $200 more and you
> get not only the player, but an entire gaming system as well. Not a bad deal, and
> with gaming so amazingly mainstream nowadays, I can see it as a major selling
> point.
like I said.. by that time it would be an also-ran, because PS3 had
already done it.
Ted
Didimo wrote:
>
> On 28 Mar 2006 13:16:00 -0800, "BelPowerslave" <Belpow...@ev1.net>
> wrote:
>
> >> The disk system is a Famicom an add-on which came out at a time when
> >> larger, battery-save carts would still be too expensive to be
> >> feasable. [SNIP!]
>
> >Are the graphics and/or sound *any* different than their NES
> >counterparts?
>
> No, the same. It would simply allow for larger games/more level/saves
> at a time when large-sized, battery back-up cartridges would still be
> too expensive to manufacture.
snip
The ROMs differ, don't they? The version of Zelda in Animal Crossing is
said to be the FDS version (altho in the US version it's in English, so
I don't know how that can really be the case). I suppose it might just
be code to deal with the different save methods.
Ah, Google is my friend
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Crossing
"It should be noted that Clu Clu Land D is previously unreleased outside
of Japan, as it was a Famicom Disk System game. It was, however, based
on the Arcade VS Clu Clu Land, as the two share some new elements. And
while Excitebike, Ice Climber, and Mario Bros were given new versions
for the Famicom Disk System, they don't appear as unlockables. The
Famicom Disk System of Excitebike, called VS Excitebike, is heavily
based of the Arcade version of the same name, adding a new VS Excite
mode, but the Edit Mode is only for that. Everything else is much the
same as the original, so it wasn't needed. The Famicom Disk System Ice
Climber features different levels and at least one new enemy all derived
from the Arcade VS Ice Climber, like Clu Clu Land did, except it shares
the same name as the original NES version. The Famicom Disk System
version of Mario Bros, however, was a brand new edition. It was called
Return of Mario Bros., boosting from the Arcade version, with more extra
features like cutscenes and a tutorial, but is mostly in Japanese and
would have to be translated. This is why Gomoku Narabe and Mahjong
didn't make it outside the Japanese version. They were replaced by
Excitebike and Soccer for NA & PAL regions just because of the language,
and these versions were made to preserve almost entirely, which means no
translation would be supplied.
Advance Play is when a person links their Game Boy Advance into their
GameCube to download the NES game to their handheld temporarily. For
this to work, a player must
download a game that does not require saving, meaning that Punchout,
Legend of Zelda, and Wario's Woods cannot be played on the Game Boy
Advance. Secondly, it must be a
real NES game, not a Famicom Disk System game. This rules out Clu Clu
Land D. All other games can be played on Advance Play, slightly
stretched and lacking 2 Player."
So, at least some FDS games have different stuff going on...
Ted
Eiji Hayashi wrote:
snip
> hate to be the spoiler of a good moment but UMDs are doing quite well
> right now in terms of sales (I know.. I can scarecely believe it
> myself)
snip
Link? Last post I saw talked about the studios cutting back on PSP
releases, which does not imply healthy sales.
Didimo
>> >Are the graphics and/or sound *any* different than their NES
>> >counterparts?
>>
>> No, the same. [SNIP!]
>
>The ROMs differ, don't they? The version of Zelda in Animal Crossing is
>said to be the FDS version [SNIP!]
>Ah, Google is my friend
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Crossing
[SNIP!]
>So, at least some FDS games have different stuff going on...
COOL! Thank you! I never had the time to do extra research on the
topic. I own Zelda FDS, but I've never played it due to the language
barrier. I have just started Metroid and Kid Icarus. So far they
seemed the same... I'll definitely check out Clu Clu Land D, Vs.
Excitebike and Mario Bros D!
Thanks,
Simone
li...@mcmaster.ca
well there are several. This for one:
http://www.pspworld.com/sony-psp/umd-movies/umd-sales-strong-sony-to-boost-production-001384.php
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/11862
however you're correct in that there seems to be contradictory news out
there. I don't really flollow PSP since I don't have one nor do I have
any interest in getting one so whatever article I read on it I assume
it's correct.
Ted
li...@mcmaster.ca wrote:
snip
> >
> > Link? Last post I saw talked about the studios cutting back on PSP
> > releases, which does not imply healthy sales.
>
> well there are several. This for one:
>
> http://www.pspworld.com/sony-psp/umd-movies/umd-sales-strong-sony-to-boost-production-001384.php
August 31st, 2005.
> http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/11862
May 26th, 2005.
>
> however you're correct in that there seems to be contradictory news out
> there. I don't really flollow PSP since I don't have one nor do I have
> any interest in getting one so whatever article I read on it I assume
> it's correct.
I'd say the recent news is not contradictory so much as it is news,
while the older stories are Sony's baseless blue sky projections, now
blown out of the water by poor holiday sales.
Around February 16th, the cutbacks were announced:
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/rant/psp-umd-movies-not-doing-so-hot-155296.php
http://www.cheatcc.com/extra/art_sonypspumdmoviesales.html
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/16/1431221
Comedies seem to be outperforming the other genres, tho, and UMD sales
may very well increase if Sony actually does end up bundling UMDs with
DVDs for only $5 more than just the DVD (if loss leader pricing stays in
effect on release, at least).
(I own 3 UMD movies, incidentally, all bought during Media Play's
liquidation sales for at least 40% off list).
BelPowerslave
> while the older stories are Sony's baseless blue sky projections, now
> blown out of the water by poor holiday sales.
> Around February 16th, the cutbacks were announced:
> http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/rant/psp-umd-movies-not-doing-so-hot-155296.php
> http://www.cheatcc.com/extra/art_sonypspumdmoviesales.html
> http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/02/16/1431221
> Comedies seem to be outperforming the other genres, tho, and UMD sales
> may very well increase if Sony actually does end up bundling UMDs with
> DVDs for only $5 more than just the DVD (if loss leader pricing stays in
> effect on release, at least).
> (I own 3 UMD movies, incidentally, all bought during Media Play's
> liquidation sales for at least 40% off list).
You know what I think could really make UMD movies just take off? If
the next revision of the iPod could be built large enough to accept and
play UMD discs. Imagine that. A little slot drive that one could pop
UMD or mini-CDs in, and play on the iPod Video's screen. With how
fucking crazy this country(and the world) is over the iPod, I'd bet
it'd work. Only problem is, I don't know Apple feels about Sony, or
vise versa. I'd bet they don't much like each other(Apple doesn't seem
to like anyone)...but if they could come together on just this one
thing...
Bel
BelPowerslave
circle...because the things I griped at you for doing a while back to
Scott, you're now doing to me. If you ever wanted to know why some feel
you're an arrogant, elitists prick, this is why.
Honestly man, I'm beginning to worry about you. Noone runs around
freaking out the way you do, anytime anyone says anything even remotely
negative about Sony. I could understand your reaction to the posts if I
were trying to convince you, or anyone else, that this is indeed the
truth and the way it's going to be. Thing is, I've constantly said that
these are just my speculations...that it's just me talking, that I
could be completely wrong.
Did you see me freak out on Azmun when he disagreed with my
speculation? No. Did you see me attack Scott when he disagreed? Not
even remotely. What I *am* seeing is you freaking out, and attacking me
for even *speculating* about the PS3. This is what worries me man. I
mean, honestly, we all have problems...and I wouldn't even begin to
think that I could help you through whatever you're going through...but
showing up here every now and then to just rip the fuck out of anything
you don't like isn't working.
Now, I can undestand a good amount of love towards a company, hell, I
love old Sega quite a bit. I don't really run around the various groups
just looking for someone to start talking shit about a Sega console, so
I can ream them. Plus, when someone bashes Sega, I don't take it
personally, and it doesn't really hurt my feelings. With you though, it
*really* seems like when someone says anything even remotely negative
about Sony, you flip..and hard. I hate to say it man, because believe
it or not I think you're an alright guy a lot of the time, but I'm
seeing shades of Skye. Granted, you've got quite a bit of intelligence
on him, but your methods are very much alike. Anytime he saw *anyone*
saying something bad about Madden, even if it was just "I liked the
dances your guy does when he scores a TD in Madden 03 better", he would
freak the fuck out and just go after the person. This is what I'm
seeing out of you.
Skye was(and I'd guess, still is) a troll: He ran around in usenet
groups for systems he didn't like, and he sat there and threw little
tantrums anytime people said something negative about something he
liked. I hate to say it, but you're becoming a troll man. I didn't post
these speculations to the Sony group, I didn't kick open the doors and
go "Listen up you motherfuckers, I'm hear to tell you how it's gonna
be!". You showed up here, and immediately went after me. Shades of
Skye...
Again, I understand that you really dig Sony, and I can understand that
you don't want to hear anything negative against them...but fuck man,
showing up here *just* to attack my *speculations* on the HD/Blue Ray
thing? That's kind of scary. I can only dream of what it must have
looked like when you booted up the computer, came into RGVS and saw the
posts. I'd bet it looked something like this:
http://www.break.com/index/patiencechild.html
Amusing video, I know...but the image it shows, of a *child* sitting
there freaking out as he sees something he doesn't like on the screen
is just about accurate of your actions here yesterday.
Why does the act of someone speaking negatively about Sony drive you
this crazy? Also, if you firmly believe that everything I said was way
off base, why were you so aggressive in your replies? There's gotta be
something else going on here man, I just *cannot* believe that
something like my speculations could set you, or anyone, off in such a
manner. There's just gotta be something else going on...
Before we get into the posts(I've gone ahead and put them all
together), I'm going to ask that you try and cool down a bit man. Noone
here is trying to downplay the PS3, it's mostly just speculation on
what the industry is going to go with...and how it'll effect the two
new consoles. That's it. Please man, kick it back just a notch...it's
only usenet.
> > Does anyone have a clue, yet, as to what the industry is going to go
> > with? I think MS has the right idea, releasing the 360 with a regular
> > DVD rom, then talking about offering an external HD/Blue Ray DVD rom
> > once they hit. I'd imagine once it does come out, and MS decides who
> > they are going to back, they'll re-release the 360 with the HD/Blue Ray
> > DVD rom already built in(and that'll be the day I buy one).
> >
> > Bel
>
> how is that going to help developers? releasing an add-on drive after
> the winner has been decided means it's limited strictly to a movie
> playing device. What's the point of that? Developers aren't going to
> split their userbase by putting their games on a format only some of
> the userbase can play.
"Well, now it's important to note that I don't believe that once(or if)
the Xbox 360 comes with an HD/Blur Ray DVD rom, or external, that games
are going to start coming out on that format. I think they'll still
stick with the DVD format, as not to cut off half their userbase...and
just because DVD is not a bad format at all. "
See, here you've gone and completely ignored what I've said, because it
gives you the fuel you need to attack. What makes you do this?
With BR built-in developers have 50 Gigs of
> capacity they can do lots of things with, for example, put on multiple
> language versions of the game as suggested by the PS3 region free
> announcement. External movie-playing add-ons are pointless, especially
> from the sound of things they won't cost substantially less than a
> stand-alone player.
Well, good point....and you could be right. As the PS3, nor any HD DVD
player is out yet, we really don't know anything yet. You've taken my
speculation too seriously.
Eiji Hayashi wrote:
> BelPowerslave wrote:
> > Well, but this isn't your typical peripheral...I mean, a lot of people
> > are going to buy the add-on simply to have a cheaper HD/Blue Ray DVD
> > player. I mean, look at how well the PS2 sold in Japan due to the fact
>
> why would they do that when they can buy a PS3?
...because it'd be for something they already own. Think about it for
minute: Why do PS1 titles still sell(and are still being made)? Because
they know any PS2 owner is a potential buyer. If some PS2 owner runs
into a gamestore, sees Puzzle Fighter on PSX, they don't go "Ah man,
PS1 only, I'm not buying a PS1 just for that game". They go "Fuck, I
can play that on my PS2! Sale!!!".
In that manner, were MS to put out an External HD/Blue Ray drive,
people may go "Hey, I already own a 360, the external is cheaper than a
new HD DVD player and it saves space, let's go with that". A lot of
people already can't afford a 360, and those who can may not be able to
swing a PS3 as well. On the other side of that coin, like you
mentioned, if someone wants an HD DVD player, and is certain that the
industry is going to go with Blue Ray, they could just as easily go
with it.
> > that it could play DVDs out of the box. God only knows how much the
>
> exactly.. it had it out of the box, the 360 CAN'T
Now, now, no need to be snotty(and personally, I don't understand why
you would be with regards to the above text). The reason I brought up
the PS2 playing DVDs out of the box is to show that your gaming system
being able to play the latest video media *is* important. Of course,
you saw it as a knock against Sony...it wasn't.
> > I mean, look at how Sony managed to fuck buyers into that $50 network
> > adapter...then just months later release a new PS2 that was not only
> > thinner, but cheaper *and* included the adapter. I think MS can do the
>
> please don't make me spank you Bel. The network adapter was available
> as early as summer 2001 while the slim PS2s didn't arrive until
> Christmas 2004.. months later indeed
Hmmmm, I could have sworn that some PS2 model came out with the
adapter...I guess I thought it was the slim. Did the regular, thick-ass
PS2 start coming with the adapter at some point?
> > same(assuming that HD/Blue Ray DVD roms are backwards compatible with
> > regular DVD discs, which I'm hearing they will be).
>
> see my other post about BR drive for games and movies, as oppose to
> strictly an add-on movie player
This, I love. My speculations are right out...they are not only not up
to par, but they differ than yours thus they are completely wrong. So,
I need to drop mine and immediately run to yours and accept them as
gospel. P-R-I-C-K.
> > add-on, remember that Peter Moore is the same guy who promised that the
> > Dreamcast was "modular" and that down the road they'd just upgrade the
> > chipset with more powerful, but backward compatible, chips to compete
> > for years to come. If there's an HD upgrade, they've pretty well stated
> > that it won't be for games, and it'd have to be external. Thus the
> > practicality of said upgrade is almost null.
>
> Bel behold.. Scott does have his common sense moments
You know what's even better, you completely overlook a key point that
Scott made about Sony's "wonderful" president. Either that, or you
forgive it in order to throw the above at me. Which one was it, out of
curiosity?
> > The danged thing just needs to come out already, so everybody can get
> > over the "shock" that it's just an Xbox 360 with "PS3" painted on it. ;)
>
> except it has a next generation media, 1080p through HDMI, dual monitor
> support, FULLY backwards compatible (unlike that BS "backwards
> compatibility" that 360 claims), and my favorite.. region free (no
> reason not to play imports anymore).
I'd like this to be true...I really do, but with Sony's unbelievable
efforts to make it so that noone in the US can even think about playing
an import, let alone do it, I find it hard to believe. A lot of US
owners even go out and just buy an import PS2 to get around this...and
now Sony is telling us that they have given up on fucking us out of
playing imports? Just seems really odd. May be true though...it'd be
nice.
li...@mcmaster.ca wrote:
> BelPowerslave wrote:
> > Well, and not to sound like a broken record here...but I can really see MS
> > putting out a second edition 360 that has the HD/Blue Ray drive in it. MS, Sony,
>
> which would be useless for games because what developer would put their
> games on a format that only some users can use. Sigh! why do I even
> have to explain this again? How can you not see this?
Here we are again at "Eiji is right, discussion closed". What is this
need of yours to be so far above argument, that once you throw down
your thoughts you're actually offended when someone diagrees?
Here's another piece to chew on: As I've said before, these replies of
yours are really agressive, and attacking in certain bits. If you don't
like me, it's fine, I understand...some people don't. Thing is, when I
don't like someone on usenet, I just throw them in a killfile and walk
away from it. I don't go about attacking them...and I certainly don't
do it three or four posts in a row. I'm not a punching bag, if you
don't like my posts, simply don't read them. You coming out and doing
this is what makes a lot of people think you're an ass.
> > Sega, Apple, etc, noone even remotely cares about the people who buy early...past
> > that initial sale. Look at Sony, they fucked PS2 owners...and hard with that new
> > thin-ass PS2 that has the network adapter built in, and a better DVD Rom drive.
>
> ok.. now your warped logic is starting to get irritating. Sony is
> giving new buyers MORE things, for the same money because they were
> able to reduce the cost of their machines, and pass the savings on to
> their consumers and you still have a problem with that? so let me get
> this straight.. first you blame Sony for not including the network
> adaptor in the first place and give credit to Microsoft for putting it
> in the Xbox (which I might add came out almost 2 years later), then
> when they put it in the slim and gave new PS2 owners a progressive DVD
> player to boot you have problem with that too? WTH? Is there anything
> they COULD do to make you happy (other than cease to exist?).
Oh, no, now there's where you're wrong. Sony is going to do something
very special for me this fall. I give pause as to whether I should even
mention this as I know it's really going to set you off...but I'll go
ahead. This fall, when Sony fucks every Playstation fan in the US by
not producting enough PS3s, I am going to be pre-ordering 3 PS3s,
buying 3 PS3s and selling 3 PS3s on ebay for, probably, twice what they
would have sold for at retail. I am going to fuck some Playstation
fans, and hard....and Sony is going to help me do it. Come this fall, I
may actually utter the words "I love Sony!". ;) I just wished I'd have
had the money to do it with the 360 as well...
It's
> damned if they do, and damned if they don't. Incidentally has Microsoft
> given their users any more value-added on their console since they
> launch? (other than replace the terrible Thompson drive?). I should
> also point out that Sony put out the slim like 4 years AFTER it's
> debut, which I should mention by that time, the Xbox had already pretty
> much croaked (honestly.. what's the Xbox got left? I can't think of a
> single exclusive).
Hmmmm, I'm not sure I understand the question, or some of the things
said above. When you say the "Xbox had already pretty much croaked",
what do you mean by that? Also, in terms of "exclusive", are you
talking about hardware, software, peripherals?
> > Noone seemed to throw a fit. Not only that, but fucked over anyone who bought the
> > HD and still no outrage(btw, if I were a speculating man, I'd almost guess that
> > that single move of making the new PS2 non-compatible with the HD is what pissed
> > Square off enough to bring that online FF to the Xbox 360).
>
> for starters, even as early as 2002 when SE was talking about FFXI they
> were already saying they were consider putting it on the Xbox, but it
> was the restrictive close-environment of LIVE that stopped that. After
> MS gave in and adopted a more liberal policy on game companies hosting
> their own servers SE brought it over to 360. You do know that FFXI on
> 360 runs on PlayOnline, and has not LIVE right?
Indeed.
Second, while the slim
> did screw over SE somewhat it wasn't a big loss. FFXI had already been
> out for a year, (over 2 years in Japan), and it's sales had saturated.
Well, I look at it how I looked at Nintendo putting out their network
adapter: They did it for *one* game...ONE GAME. I kind of wonder if
Sony decided to make the slim PS2 incompatible with the HD because they
were afraid of the piracy that would come about with people dumping
games onto the HD(like pirates do on the Xbox).
> > You may be right, the external HD/Blue Ray drive may never materialize and if it
> > does, it may be entirely too expensive and just flop hard...but those 360's with
> > them built into the systems are going to fly off the shelves because HD/Blue Ray
> > players are going to be so expensive to begin with.
>
> Sometimes I wonder about you Bel. How do you figure out MS coming out
> years later with a system that come with a HD/BR player, which can only
> be used for movies is going to fly off the shelf YEARS after the PS3
> had already done the same.. out of the box? Can you justify that to me
> somehow, I mean.. using some measure of economic principal and common
> sense?
I don't understand that "years later" talk. The PS3 is coming out this
fall, right? That's just *a* year, not "years". If MS is going to put
out the external, or second edition 360, they'll need to do it around
the time the PS3 comes out. If they don't, and they wait a few years,
then I'd have to say that it would flop(assuming they don't put out a
second edition 360).
This above reply of yours really helps sum up what I've been saying. My
above post even says that it may flop hard(along with my speculation),
yet you feel the need to make sure I hear that you KNOW it's going to
flop hard(no ifs, ands or buts). Why did you feel the need to do that?
They're just my speculations, just me talking. You've just got to come
in and add something to it though...I don't understand that.
The worst thing about what you've done is that *none* of this stuff is
out...and is, what, more than 6 months away? You're going after me for
speculating on how things could be, and you're not just going "Well, I
don't think it'll be like that, I see it this way", you're going "Sigh!
why do I even have to explain this again? How can you not see this?" to
put yourself in a position above me. What's with this need to feel
"superior" in any given converstation"? You're human, right? You can't
be right 100% of the time, so it seems like you set up these replies so
there can't possibly be any rebuttal...and when there is you act like
the voice of God, or something, as you rain down how your logic is
flawless. It's really childish man.
The one tangible, actual thing I said negative of Sony...you never even
mentioned. You somehow missed it, something you could really have gone
after me for, and decided that the easy "win" would be to attack my
speculations as my only reply would have to be further speculation(that
which you could slap down, again), thus starting the cycle over again.
It doesn't really paint a pretty picture of who you are, and what
you're about. It's actually a very disturbing picture, of someone who
can't seem to grasp his own limitations.
Bel
BelPowerslave
> >the fact that we can't get it to run, it about killed that. If you know
> >anyone who is looking for one just to mess with, or for parts(and the
> >possibility that it still does work), let me know. I can ask him what
> >he's looking to get for it.
>
> Mmhh. It's probably the usual "belt" issue. I suggest he buys a cheap
> replacement belt from Japan via Ebay, and then follows the guides
> (available online) on how to repair it. Once working, he could make
> more than decent money for that. I paid about $200 for my Famicom 1 +
> Disk System + 2 games, and then I bought a new Famicom 2 AV system (my
> tv wasn't able to display the famicom 1 RF signal properly).
Ok, I'll pass that along to him. Thanks. :)
> >Well, I'm not real thrilled with the line up...certainly not as much as
> >I am about just the fact that every game is in HD.
>
> Neither was I. But I do like racing games A LOT, and Ridge Racer 6 and
> PRG 3 are great. I play more with the 360 arcade downloads, though :
> ). Yep, it does look (and sound) awesome on a HD TV + 5.1 sound system
> : ).
Got the 5.1...working on the HD TV. Once I get the HD TV, I'll probably
start looking into either a 360 or PS3.
> >Like the GBA is to the SNES, the PSP really is nothing but a slightly
> >more powerful PSX. I love how they tout it to be as powerful as the
> >PS2...then you look at the games and they look like PSX games with 3D
> >acceleration and some bilinear filtering. If the price didn't already
> >kill it for me, this definitely would. ;)
>
> Yep. I'm not using it much indeed. Great screen, though. I'm still
> hoping they'd come out with some decent games REALLY MEANT for TRUE
> portable play. Something "immediate" like Tetris DS, rather than GTA,
> which although a great game is meant to be played on a home system,
> rather than on the go...
Yeah, that's true...it seems like a lot of the library isn't really
meant for on-the-go gaming, despite being on a portable. Puzzle games
would be great. Something like Puzzle Fighter, Baku Baku, etc. I hear
that that MK: Unchained is supposed to still have Puzzle Kombat in it.
If you haven't played that, give it a shot at some point...it's great.
Bel
li...@mcmaster.ca
one HUMONGOUS post is really rather tedious. I would have rather you
left each post and comment on them individually.
BelPowerslave wrote:
> Alright, Eiji...here we go again. I feel we've come full
> circle...because the things I griped at you for doing a while back to
> Scott, you're now doing to me. If you ever wanted to know why some feel
> you're an arrogant, elitists prick, this is why.
I don't know what you're talking about
> Honestly man, I'm beginning to worry about you. Noone runs around
> freaking out the way you do, anytime anyone says anything even remotely
> negative about Sony. I could understand your reaction to the posts if I
well.. I don't think people should have free reign to go and diss
consoles, Sony or otherwise, without providing evidence and expect to
get away with it scott free.
> were trying to convince you, or anyone else, that this is indeed the
> truth and the way it's going to be. Thing is, I've constantly said that
> these are just my speculations...that it's just me talking, that I
> could be completely wrong.
well then.. I think you're wrong, this is just my way of doing it
> Did you see me freak out on Azmun when he disagreed with my
> speculation? No. Did you see me attack Scott when he disagreed? Not
> even remotely. What I *am* seeing is you freaking out, and attacking me
> for even *speculating* about the PS3. This is what worries me man. I
I think "attack" is a bit strong of a word. "Strongly disagree" is more
like it. But my problem isn't with your speculation of the future, but
rather your rewriting of the past.
> mean, honestly, we all have problems...and I wouldn't even begin to
> think that I could help you through whatever you're going through...but
> showing up here every now and then to just rip the fuck out of anything
> you don't like isn't working.
can we please just get to the good stuff.. all this posturing is eating
into my playing time
> Now, I can undestand a good amount of love towards a company, hell, I
> love old Sega quite a bit. I don't really run around the various groups
> just looking for someone to start talking shit about a Sega console, so
> I can ream them. Plus, when someone bashes Sega, I don't take it
> personally, and it doesn't really hurt my feelings. With you though, it
Whatever makes you think I'm taking this personally?
> *really* seems like when someone says anything even remotely negative
> about Sony, you flip..and hard. I hate to say it man, because believe
I think you're exagerrating this a bit here.. I don't flip. I simply
provide reasons as to why your logic is flawed.
> it or not I think you're an alright guy a lot of the time, but I'm
> seeing shades of Skye. Granted, you've got quite a bit of intelligence
> on him, but your methods are very much alike. Anytime he saw *anyone*
> saying something bad about Madden, even if it was just "I liked the
> dances your guy does when he scores a TD in Madden 03 better", he would
> freak the fuck out and just go after the person. This is what I'm
> seeing out of you.
again.. can we just get to the good stuff? I don't pad my post with
fluffy stuff and so don't expect me to read through it. I provide
clear, concise objections, and reasoning as to my objection. You either
comment on that or don't, but I'm not going to engage in fluff.
> Skye was(and I'd guess, still is) a troll: He ran around in usenet
> groups for systems he didn't like, and he sat there and threw little
> tantrums anytime people said something negative about something he
> liked. I hate to say it, but you're becoming a troll man. I didn't post
> these speculations to the Sony group, I didn't kick open the doors and
> go "Listen up you motherfuckers, I'm hear to tell you how it's gonna
> be!". You showed up here, and immediately went after me. Shades of
> Skye...
that's nice.. can we please get on with it? so far I'm looking at half
an hour of text which hasn't raised any issues or made any comments as
to my specific objections, it's getting late
> Again, I understand that you really dig Sony, and I can understand that
> you don't want to hear anything negative against them...but fuck man,
> showing up here *just* to attack my *speculations* on the HD/Blue Ray
> thing? That's kind of scary. I can only dream of what it must have
nobody is attacking "expectation". But saying Sony "fucked over" their
fans by providing them with more features at the same price isn't
speculation, it's expressing your opinion on an actual event, something
I can comment on.
> looked like when you booted up the computer, came into RGVS and saw the
> posts. I'd bet it looked something like this:
>
> http://www.break.com/index/patiencechild.html
>
> Amusing video, I know...but the image it shows, of a *child* sitting
> there freaking out as he sees something he doesn't like on the screen
> is just about accurate of your actions here yesterday.
yawwwnnn.. do you actually have anything to say about my objections or
is your whole post going to be filled with this philosophical
posturing?
> Why does the act of someone speaking negatively about Sony drive you
> this crazy? Also, if you firmly believe that everything I said was way
> off base, why were you so aggressive in your replies? There's gotta be
> something else going on here man, I just *cannot* believe that
> something like my speculations could set you, or anyone, off in such a
> manner. There's just gotta be something else going on...
I should start counting the words.. and number of paragraphs
> Before we get into the posts(I've gone ahead and put them all
> together), I'm going to ask that you try and cool down a bit man. Noone
> here is trying to downplay the PS3, it's mostly just speculation on
> what the industry is going to go with...and how it'll effect the two
> new consoles. That's it. Please man, kick it back just a notch...it's
> only usenet.
oh my lord! are we finally going to start discussing actual topics? I
felt like I just had a nice siesta
> > how is that going to help developers? releasing an add-on drive after
> > the winner has been decided means it's limited strictly to a movie
> > playing device. What's the point of that? Developers aren't going to
> > split their userbase by putting their games on a format only some of
> > the userbase can play.
>
> "Well, now it's important to note that I don't believe that once(or if)
> the Xbox 360 comes with an HD/Blur Ray DVD rom, or external, that games
> are going to start coming out on that format. I think they'll still
> stick with the DVD format, as not to cut off half their userbase...and
> just because DVD is not a bad format at all. "
so in that case, what use is the BR/HDDVD for other than playing
movies? which is exactly the point I raised.
> See, here you've gone and completely ignored what I've said, because it
> gives you the fuel you need to attack. What makes you do this?
can we just get the discussion going without all this posturing?
> With BR built-in developers have 50 Gigs of
> > capacity they can do lots of things with, for example, put on multiple
> > language versions of the game as suggested by the PS3 region free
> > announcement. External movie-playing add-ons are pointless, especially
> > from the sound of things they won't cost substantially less than a
> > stand-alone player.
>
> Well, good point....and you could be right. As the PS3, nor any HD DVD
> player is out yet, we really don't know anything yet. You've taken my
> speculation too seriously.
there's hypothesis, and then there's pure speculation. The former is
based on reason, the latter is unsubstantiated ad hoc opinion. So far I
havn't heard any reasoning from you as to why you think an external
HDDVD/BR drive will fly on the 360 while I've presented clear reasons
as to why it won't. That's the difference here.
> ...because it'd be for something they already own. Think about it for
> minute: Why do PS1 titles still sell(and are still being made)? Because
> they know any PS2 owner is a potential buyer. If some PS2 owner runs
> into a gamestore, sees Puzzle Fighter on PSX, they don't go "Ah man,
> PS1 only, I'm not buying a PS1 just for that game". They go "Fuck, I
> can play that on my PS2! Sale!!!".
>
> In that manner, were MS to put out an External HD/Blue Ray drive,
> people may go "Hey, I already own a 360, the external is cheaper than a
> new HD DVD player and it saves space, let's go with that". A lot of
> people already can't afford a 360, and those who can may not be able to
> swing a PS3 as well. On the other side of that coin, like you
> mentioned, if someone wants an HD DVD player, and is certain that the
> industry is going to go with Blue Ray, they could just as easily go
> with it.
ok.. atleast you're presenting some argument here though I fail to see
the logic of it right now but let me try. First, the PS3 is going to
come out with BR out of the box. For the people that don't have a 360
after the PS3 launch, if they're looking for a cheap BR player, which
would they buy, a 360 and then an add-on, or the PS3? No evidence here
but in this hypothetical situtation I think the PS3 has a pretty big
edge there in that decision being out of the box and all, and also most
likely a 360+add-on will cost more than the PS3, due to the extra
manufacturing required for an external device.
Now for the people that already have a 360, their decision then is 1)
buy an add-on to their 360, or 2) buy a standalone BR/HDDVD player. I
would argue that such an add-on won't cost substantially less than a
standalone player. Why? it's going to be external so you're not saving
on any shared mechanism here except possibly they might save some money
and omit the red laser and use the 360's built-in drive for reading
DVDs and the add-on purely for reading BR/HDDVD, but most of the
mechanism will have to be there externally, just like a standalone
player. Also, as most people know, standalone players tend to have
better performance, another reason why people would most likely be more
inclined to buying a standalone player. Given both of these scenarios,
I fail to see why any potential add-on would be popular.
> Hmmmm, I could have sworn that some PS2 model came out with the
> adapter...I guess I thought it was the slim. Did the regular, thick-ass
> PS2 start coming with the adapter at some point?
nope
> > > same(assuming that HD/Blue Ray DVD roms are backwards compatible with
> > > regular DVD discs, which I'm hearing they will be).
> >
> > see my other post about BR drive for games and movies, as oppose to
> > strictly an add-on movie player
>
> This, I love. My speculations are right out...they are not only not up
> to par, but they differ than yours thus they are completely wrong. So,
> I need to drop mine and immediately run to yours and accept them as
> gospel. P-R-I-C-K.
ok.. you lost me there. Next
> You know what's even better, you completely overlook a key point that
> Scott made about Sony's "wonderful" president. Either that, or you
> forgive it in order to throw the above at me. Which one was it, out of
> curiosity?
oh.. are we done with the actual discussion already?
> > except it has a next generation media, 1080p through HDMI, dual monitor
> > support, FULLY backwards compatible (unlike that BS "backwards
> > compatibility" that 360 claims), and my favorite.. region free (no
> > reason not to play imports anymore).
>
> I'd like this to be true...I really do, but with Sony's unbelievable
> efforts to make it so that noone in the US can even think about playing
> an import, let alone do it, I find it hard to believe. A lot of US
> owners even go out and just buy an import PS2 to get around this...and
> now Sony is telling us that they have given up on fucking us out of
> playing imports? Just seems really odd. May be true though...it'd be
> nice.
the whole point of region locking was to deter piracy. Then Sony found
out that not only does it NOT deter piracy, it in fact HELPs piracy
since it's actually EASIER to play pirated import games, than original
import games. So I'm totally not surprised they've come to their
senses.
> Here's another piece to chew on: As I've said before, these replies of
> yours are really agressive, and attacking in certain bits. If you don't
> like me, it's fine, I understand...some people don't. Thing is, when I
> don't like someone on usenet, I just throw them in a killfile and walk
> away from it. I don't go about attacking them...and I certainly don't
> do it three or four posts in a row. I'm not a punching bag, if you
> don't like my posts, simply don't read them. You coming out and doing
> this is what makes a lot of people think you're an ass.
wait a sec.. maybe because of all this posturing of that you're doing
in this post is because you're upset that I provided logical reasons to
refute your opinion and you can't argue against it? I mean come on! you
havn't exactly provided anything for a discussion here.
YOU: I think this is what's going to happen
ME: No I think you're wrong, and here're the reasons why.........
YOU: Why are you being so mean and attacking me?
I don't see any problem here. I'm not "attacking" you. I'm challenging
your opinion, if you don't like it then tough, this is usenet, you
can't expect to post an opinion and not receive any challenges. Note
the difference between challenge and flaming, the latter being complete
ridicuing of your post without the slightest shread of evidence or
reason. This is CLEARLY not the case here. I've provided ample
reasoning as to why your opinion is WRONG. Instead of rebutting as one
should you're crying about me attacking you. Gimmie a break! This is
usenet. Not everyone is going to agree with you. Live with it! rebutt,
or not, it's your choice, but don't whine about people challenging your
opinion.
> Oh, no, now there's where you're wrong. Sony is going to do something
> very special for me this fall. I give pause as to whether I should even
> mention this as I know it's really going to set you off...but I'll go
> ahead. This fall, when Sony fucks every Playstation fan in the US by
> not producting enough PS3s, I am going to be pre-ordering 3 PS3s,
> buying 3 PS3s and selling 3 PS3s on ebay for, probably, twice what they
> would have sold for at retail. I am going to fuck some Playstation
> fans, and hard....and Sony is going to help me do it. Come this fall, I
> may actually utter the words "I love Sony!". ;) I just wished I'd have
> had the money to do it with the 360 as well...
ok.. now you're deranged. What on earth does this have to do with
ANYTHING? are you telling me the 360 DIDN'T have shortage? People cried
about how it's Sony's fault because it had severe PS2 shortages at
launch. Guess what? the 360 was worse. Sony launched with 500K units in
North America, 1 million units in Japan. 360 launched with 300K in
North America. What's worse, there were no more 360s for months whereas
Sony had weekly shipments of 60K units every week after launch in US.
Were you decrying Microsoft's incompetence last November? You certainly
have a right to feel "shortages" is equivalent to "being fucked", as
long as you blame every party that does it and not just one party.
> Hmmmm, I'm not sure I understand the question, or some of the things
> said above. When you say the "Xbox had already pretty much croaked",
> what do you mean by that? Also, in terms of "exclusive", are you
> talking about hardware, software, peripherals?
ofcourse I'm talking about software. The last exclusive game that I
know of for Xbox is Halflife 2 (which isn't really since it's a PC
port) or Call of Cthulu.. that was 4 months ago. Look up Microsoft's
pipeline.. do you see any exclusives coming? I sure don't. THAT's what
I mean by croaked. The PS2 on the other hand has games scheduled LONG
after the November launch of the PS3, for example Yakuza and God of War
2. Anyways this is irrelevent. The point is PS2 is well within their
rights to come out with an enhenced machine 3 years after their launch,
especially considering what the competition has done. They're giving
new owners more bang for their buck. I see that as a bonus, not as
"being fucked".and I would imagine alot of people agreed considering
the spike in PS2 sales afte that.
> Well, I look at it how I looked at Nintendo putting out their network
> adapter: They did it for *one* game...ONE GAME. I kind of wonder if
> Sony decided to make the slim PS2 incompatible with the HD because they
> were afraid of the piracy that would come about with people dumping
> games onto the HD(like pirates do on the Xbox).
bingo.. it's PRECISELY because of piracy. Look at the HDloader.
> I don't understand that "years later" talk. The PS3 is coming out this
> fall, right? That's just *a* year, not "years". If MS is going to put
> out the external, or second edition 360, they'll need to do it around
> the time the PS3 comes out. If they don't, and they wait a few years,
> then I'd have to say that it would flop(assuming they don't put out a
> second edition 360).
ok.. let me ask you this then. The 360 is what.. $300 for the core and
$400 for the premium (CDN). Most of the analysts think the PS3 will be
$500 (it would be suicide for them to price it any higher, they might
bundle for the first little while). BR/HDDVD drives are going to be
around $500 at the time the PS3 comes out, maybe a bit more. How much
can Microsoft sell the add-on for?
> This above reply of yours really helps sum up what I've been saying. My
> above post even says that it may flop hard(along with my speculation),
I certainly don't see the pessimism in your evaluation of the HDDVD/BR
addon. I mean you keep saying MS is RIGHT for now including it, and
then bringing up the possibility of add-on. I must've missed this
reality check among all your positive speculations.
> The worst thing about what you've done is that *none* of this stuff is
> out...and is, what, more than 6 months away? You're going after me for
> speculating on how things could be, and you're not just going "Well, I
> don't think it'll be like that, I see it this way", you're going "Sigh!
> why do I even have to explain this again? How can you not see this?" to
> put yourself in a position above me. What's with this need to feel
> "superior" in any given converstation"? You're human, right? You can't
> be right 100% of the time, so it seems like you set up these replies so
> there can't possibly be any rebuttal...and when there is you act like
> the voice of God, or something, as you rain down how your logic is
> flawless. It's really childish man.
>
> The one tangible, actual thing I said negative of Sony...you never even
> mentioned. You somehow missed it, something you could really have gone
> after me for, and decided that the easy "win" would be to attack my
> speculations as my only reply would have to be further speculation(that
> which you could slap down, again), thus starting the cycle over again.
> It doesn't really paint a pretty picture of who you are, and what
> you're about. It's actually a very disturbing picture, of someone who
> can't seem to grasp his own limitations.
please.. all grandstanding aside. It's just you and me here. You don't
really need to do all this posturing to try and gain any sympathy
around here.. this is the Sega board afterall. People don't need a
reason to hate Sony here, so really all this fluff you're throwing
around is just wasted. How about we get back to discussing the real
topics. The stuff you gave in the last two paragraphs (prior to this
fluffy finale) was good.. do more that and less posturing and you can
expect an intelligent debate from me. Otherwise, you're on your own. Or
do you prefer people just agreeing with you all the time and support
your position?
BelPowerslave
> one HUMONGOUS post is really rather tedious. I would have rather you
> left each post and comment on them individually.
Oh, I'm sorry...I guess I just wasn't thinking about what'd be best for
Eiji. :)
> BelPowerslave wrote:
> > Alright, Eiji...here we go again. I feel we've come full
> > circle...because the things I griped at you for doing a while back to
> > Scott, you're now doing to me. If you ever wanted to know why some feel
> > you're an arrogant, elitists prick, this is why.
>
> I don't know what you're talking about
Oh, yes you do...and after that last talk we had, when I went through
your posts here in RGVS, I know you know, as you replied to a lot of
the people calling you that.
> > Honestly man, I'm beginning to worry about you. Noone runs around
> > freaking out the way you do, anytime anyone says anything even remotely
> > negative about Sony. I could understand your reaction to the posts if I
>
> well.. I don't think people should have free reign to go and diss
> consoles, Sony or otherwise, without providing evidence and expect to
> get away with it scott free.
No, you don't think people should have free reign *anywhere* to diss
any Sony console, ever without you getting to come after them. This is
all about you, and this crazy notion that you have to protect the
company.
> > were trying to convince you, or anyone else, that this is indeed the
> > truth and the way it's going to be. Thing is, I've constantly said that
> > these are just my speculations...that it's just me talking, that I
> > could be completely wrong.
>
> well then.. I think you're wrong, this is just my way of doing it
By being a complete ass, in front of the whole group I might add(this
group that you supposedly enjoy posting to). Noone, with any friends,
acts the way you do...
> I think "attack" is a bit strong of a word. "Strongly disagree" is more
> like it. But my problem isn't with your speculation of the future, but
> rather your rewriting of the past.
Oh, the *one* mistake about the PS2 coming with the adapter. Wow, and
this set you off on your 3 or 4 post attack?
> > mean, honestly, we all have problems...and I wouldn't even begin to
> > think that I could help you through whatever you're going through...but
> > showing up here every now and then to just rip the fuck out of anything
> > you don't like isn't working.
>
> can we please just get to the good stuff.. all this posturing is eating
> into my playing time
You know what's amusing: I do this at work...I have nothing better to
do than play with you...and here you are complaining that you'd rather
be doing something else, yet you still take the time to reply.
> > Now, I can undestand a good amount of love towards a company, hell, I
> > love old Sega quite a bit. I don't really run around the various groups
> > just looking for someone to start talking shit about a Sega console, so
> > I can ream them. Plus, when someone bashes Sega, I don't take it
> > personally, and it doesn't really hurt my feelings. With you though, it
>
> Whatever makes you think I'm taking this personally?
Noone freaks out as much as you do when Sony is attacked, *noone*. The
trolls don't even flip out like you do.
> > *really* seems like when someone says anything even remotely negative
> > about Sony, you flip..and hard. I hate to say it man, because believe
>
> I think you're exagerrating this a bit here.. I don't flip. I simply
> provide reasons as to why your logic is flawed.
In a very agressive, and hateful manner. Like any given troll, you sit
there and try to talk down to anyone you're in disagreement with.
> > it or not I think you're an alright guy a lot of the time, but I'm
> > seeing shades of Skye. Granted, you've got quite a bit of intelligence
> > on him, but your methods are very much alike. Anytime he saw *anyone*
> > saying something bad about Madden, even if it was just "I liked the
> > dances your guy does when he scores a TD in Madden 03 better", he would
> > freak the fuck out and just go after the person. This is what I'm
> > seeing out of you.
>
> again.. can we just get to the good stuff?
You know, if you'd man up and answer some of these questions I'd stop
asking. You know it, and I know, you've become a troll. It's time to
admit it.
I don't pad my post with
> fluffy stuff and so don't expect me to read through it.
Yet here you are...instead of playing whatever wonderful import on your
almighty PS2.
I provide
> clear, concise objections, and reasoning as to my objection. You either
> comment on that or don't, but I'm not going to engage in fluff.
Ya just did big boy.
> > Skye was(and I'd guess, still is) a troll: He ran around in usenet
> > groups for systems he didn't like, and he sat there and threw little
> > tantrums anytime people said something negative about something he
> > liked. I hate to say it, but you're becoming a troll man. I didn't post
> > these speculations to the Sony group, I didn't kick open the doors and
> > go "Listen up you motherfuckers, I'm hear to tell you how it's gonna
> > be!". You showed up here, and immediately went after me. Shades of
> > Skye...
>
> that's nice.. can we please get on with it?
Avoiding, yet again. Most trolls can't answer a direct question...
so far I'm looking at half
> an hour of text which hasn't raised any issues or made any comments as
> to my specific objections, it's getting late
...then stop reading. Stop coming to RGVS, stop breathing. You see,
unlike most people, I don't mind telling you flat out that you're a
dick...and that I wouldn't mind seeing you gone.
> > Again, I understand that you really dig Sony, and I can understand that
> > you don't want to hear anything negative against them...but fuck man,
> > showing up here *just* to attack my *speculations* on the HD/Blue Ray
> > thing? That's kind of scary. I can only dream of what it must have
>
> nobody is attacking "expectation". But saying Sony "fucked over" their
> fans by providing them with more features at the same price isn't
> speculation, it's expressing your opinion on an actual event, something
> I can comment on.
Again, the *one* thing you keep coming back to as a launching point to
you attacking me over three or four posts. Let me guess, you saw that,
just had to reply...yet still had so much energy to go ahead and do it
three or four more times...all while cursing me for taking up your time
because you just have so many better things to be doing? Am I close?
> > looked like when you booted up the computer, came into RGVS and saw the
> > posts. I'd bet it looked something like this:
> >
> > http://www.break.com/index/patiencechild.html
> >
> > Amusing video, I know...but the image it shows, of a *child* sitting
> > there freaking out as he sees something he doesn't like on the screen
> > is just about accurate of your actions here yesterday.
>
> yawwwnnn.. do you actually have anything to say about my objections or
> is your whole post going to be filled with this philosophical
> posturing?
You avoid because you know it's true. You act like a child in this
group, noone else throws the fits you do, noone else goes around like a
hurt little girl as they scream out how wrong everyone else is.
> > Why does the act of someone speaking negatively about Sony drive you
> > this crazy? Also, if you firmly believe that everything I said was way
> > off base, why were you so aggressive in your replies? There's gotta be
> > something else going on here man, I just *cannot* believe that
> > something like my speculations could set you, or anyone, off in such a
> > manner. There's just gotta be something else going on...
>
> I should start counting the words.. and number of paragraphs
Please do...but don't let it cut into your time for "playing games".
> > Before we get into the posts(I've gone ahead and put them all
> > together), I'm going to ask that you try and cool down a bit man. Noone
> > here is trying to downplay the PS3, it's mostly just speculation on
> > what the industry is going to go with...and how it'll effect the two
> > new consoles. That's it. Please man, kick it back just a notch...it's
> > only usenet.
>
> oh my lord! are we finally going to start discussing actual topics? I
> felt like I just had a nice siesta
Yes, after all your avoiding of my direct questions, we'll go ahead and
watch you cry like a child as your thoughts are challenged(yay).
> > > how is that going to help developers? releasing an add-on drive after
> > > the winner has been decided means it's limited strictly to a movie
> > > playing device. What's the point of that? Developers aren't going to
> > > split their userbase by putting their games on a format only some of
> > > the userbase can play.
> >
> > "Well, now it's important to note that I don't believe that once(or if)
> > the Xbox 360 comes with an HD/Blur Ray DVD rom, or external, that games
> > are going to start coming out on that format. I think they'll still
> > stick with the DVD format, as not to cut off half their userbase...and
> > just because DVD is not a bad format at all. "
>
> so in that case, what use is the BR/HDDVD for other than playing
> movies? which is exactly the point I raised.
"Developers aren't going to split their userbase by putting their games
on a format only some of the userbase can play."
So, let's take a quick look here: BR/HD DVD would be used strictly for
movies, I don't think the devs will switch to it at all(they'd stick
with DVDs). You asked and answered the question you came up with.
> > See, here you've gone and completely ignored what I've said, because it
> > gives you the fuel you need to attack. What makes you do this?
>
> can we just get the discussion going without all this posturing?
No, because the way you handle yourself...something has got to be said.
> there's hypothesis, and then there's pure speculation. The former is
> based on reason, the latter is unsubstantiated ad hoc opinion. So far I
> havn't heard any reasoning from you as to why you think an external
> HDDVD/BR drive will fly on the 360 while I've presented clear reasons
> as to why it won't. That's the difference here.
...and your reasons are 100% accurate right? Again, for the 15th time,
it's just speculation, it's just me talking. *I* think it'd work...it
might very well not, who knows. The fact that you feel you have to try
to make me change my mind to follow your thoughts is what's crazy.
> > In that manner, were MS to put out an External HD/Blue Ray drive,
> > people may go "Hey, I already own a 360, the external is cheaper than a
> > new HD DVD player and it saves space, let's go with that". A lot of
> > people already can't afford a 360, and those who can may not be able to
> > swing a PS3 as well. On the other side of that coin, like you
> > mentioned, if someone wants an HD DVD player, and is certain that the
> > industry is going to go with Blue Ray, they could just as easily go
> > with it.
>
> ok.. atleast you're presenting some argument here though I fail to see
> the logic of it right now but let me try. First, the PS3 is going to
> come out with BR out of the box. For the people that don't have a 360
> after the PS3 launch, if they're looking for a cheap BR player, which
> would they buy, a 360 and then an add-on, or the PS3? No evidence here
> but in this hypothetical situtation I think the PS3 has a pretty big
> edge there in that decision being out of the box and all, and also most
> likely a 360+add-on will cost more than the PS3, due to the extra
> manufacturing required for an external device.
Well, for those who don't own either system, I agree, the PS3's BR
drive is going to be a huge selling point. I don't think it'll be as
bit for those with a 360. Again, notice, "I don't think"...doesn't mean
that I'm attempting to sway you, or anyone else towards my thoughts.
> Now for the people that already have a 360, their decision then is 1)
> buy an add-on to their 360, or 2) buy a standalone BR/HDDVD player. I
> would argue that such an add-on won't cost substantially less than a
> standalone player. Why? it's going to be external so you're not saving
> on any shared mechanism here except possibly they might save some money
> and omit the red laser and use the 360's built-in drive for reading
> DVDs and the add-on purely for reading BR/HDDVD, but most of the
> mechanism will have to be there externally, just like a standalone
> player. Also, as most people know, standalone players tend to have
> better performance, another reason why people would most likely be more
> inclined to buying a standalone player. Given both of these scenarios,
> I fail to see why any potential add-on would be popular.
See, the above is how you do it. That was civil, that was well thought
out, there wasn't any undermining need to attack or be superior to the
discussion.
> > Hmmmm, I could have sworn that some PS2 model came out with the
> > adapter...I guess I thought it was the slim. Did the regular, thick-ass
> > PS2 start coming with the adapter at some point?
>
> nope
Man, I could have sworn that they were packing it with the adapter at
some point. Well, I was wrong there, sorry about that.
> > > see my other post about BR drive for games and movies, as oppose to
> > > strictly an add-on movie player
> >
> > This, I love. My speculations are right out...they are not only not up
> > to par, but they differ than yours thus they are completely wrong. So,
> > I need to drop mine and immediately run to yours and accept them as
> > gospel. P-R-I-C-K.
>
> ok.. you lost me there. Next
Another bit of your avoiding.
> > You know what's even better, you completely overlook a key point that
> > Scott made about Sony's "wonderful" president. Either that, or you
> > forgive it in order to throw the above at me. Which one was it, out of
> > curiosity?
>
> oh.. are we done with the actual discussion already?
Yes, and you've managed to avoid almost every direct question as to the
reasons you act the way you do.
> > I'd like this to be true...I really do, but with Sony's unbelievable
> > efforts to make it so that noone in the US can even think about playing
> > an import, let alone do it, I find it hard to believe. A lot of US
> > owners even go out and just buy an import PS2 to get around this...and
> > now Sony is telling us that they have given up on fucking us out of
> > playing imports? Just seems really odd. May be true though...it'd be
> > nice.
>
> the whole point of region locking was to deter piracy. Then Sony found
> out that not only does it NOT deter piracy, it in fact HELPs piracy
> since it's actually EASIER to play pirated import games, than original
> import games. So I'm totally not surprised they've come to their
> senses.
Well, other than the portables, this will be, what, the first console
ever to actually have this as a feature. More power to'em, wish they
could convince Nintendo and MS to do the same.
> > Here's another piece to chew on: As I've said before, these replies of
> > yours are really agressive, and attacking in certain bits. If you don't
> > like me, it's fine, I understand...some people don't. Thing is, when I
> > don't like someone on usenet, I just throw them in a killfile and walk
> > away from it. I don't go about attacking them...and I certainly don't
> > do it three or four posts in a row. I'm not a punching bag, if you
> > don't like my posts, simply don't read them. You coming out and doing
> > this is what makes a lot of people think you're an ass.
>
> wait a sec.. maybe because of all this posturing of that you're doing
> in this post is because you're upset that I provided logical reasons to
> refute your opinion and you can't argue against it? I mean come on! you
> havn't exactly provided anything for a discussion here.
Think about what you saying, "logical reasons to refute my *opinion*".
This is what's wrong with you, you attempt to presume that you can tell
people that their opinions are actually *wrong*. This is what makes you
a prick. You can't go around telling people that their opinions are
wrong. Yet you do this anytime you don't like what someone has posted.
> YOU: I think this is what's going to happen
> ME: No I think you're wrong, and here're the reasons why.........
> YOU: Why are you being so mean and attacking me?
Oh, no, I can't believe you even attempted this. Anyone who has read
this thread is going to see an issue with the "me" part of that.
> I don't see any problem here. I'm not "attacking" you. I'm challenging
> your opinion,
A minute ago you were "refuting" it:
re·fute (ri-fyut') pronunciation
tr.v., -fut·ed, -fut·ing, -futes.
1. To prove to be false or erroneous; overthrow by argument or
proof: refute testimony.
2. To deny the accuracy or truth of: refuted the results of the
poll.
if you don't like it then tough, this is usenet, you
> can't expect to post an opinion and not receive any challenges.
...but I can expect to express opinions without pricks like yourself
coming in telling me they are wrong...then have said prick tell me of
his opinion and how, magically, it's right.
Note
> the difference between challenge and flaming, the latter being complete
> ridicuing of your post without the slightest shread of evidence or
> reason. This is CLEARLY not the case here.
I've never accused you of flaming me...I said you were attacking me.
The two are different.
I've provided ample
> reasoning as to why your opinion is WRONG.
Bingo. This one sentence sums you up a poster here in usenet. My God
man, just take a step back, look at what you just said. *Imagine* if
someone came up to you, in any given group, and flat out said to what
you just said to me. You would flip the fuck out. We'd see a post
unlike anything usenet has ever come across.
Instead of rebutting as one
> should you're crying about me attacking you.
No, crying is best left to you, little girl. I don't throw fits when
someone attacks the Genesis...
Gimmie a break! This is
> usenet. Not everyone is going to agree with you. Live with it! rebutt,
> or not, it's your choice, but don't whine about people challenging your
> opinion.
Here we are again with another term to try to describe what you're
doing. Do you realize how many times you've switched up the terminology
on this so far?
> > Oh, no, now there's where you're wrong. Sony is going to do something
> > very special for me this fall. I give pause as to whether I should even
> > mention this as I know it's really going to set you off...but I'll go
> > ahead. This fall, when Sony fucks every Playstation fan in the US by
> > not producting enough PS3s, I am going to be pre-ordering 3 PS3s,
> > buying 3 PS3s and selling 3 PS3s on ebay for, probably, twice what they
> > would have sold for at retail. I am going to fuck some Playstation
> > fans, and hard....and Sony is going to help me do it. Come this fall, I
> > may actually utter the words "I love Sony!". ;) I just wished I'd have
> > had the money to do it with the 360 as well...
>
> ok.. now you're deranged. What on earth does this have to do with
> ANYTHING? are you telling me the 360 DIDN'T have shortage?
"I just wished I'd have had the money to do it with the 360 as well..."
Wished: I had. Had what? Had done this. This? Selling gaming units on
ebay because the manufacturer fucked all of the US by not producing
enough units.
How could I tell you the 360 didn't have the shortage when I just sat
there and wished I had done it with the 360 as well. This is what we
call "reaching" Eiji, you're reaching for something to go after me
with.
People cried
> about how it's Sony's fault because it had severe PS2 shortages at
> launch. Guess what? the 360 was worse.
Agreed 100%.
Sony launched with 500K units in
> North America, 1 million units in Japan. 360 launched with 300K in
> North America. What's worse, there were no more 360s for months whereas
> Sony had weekly shipments of 60K units every week after launch in US.
> Were you decrying Microsoft's incompetence last November?
Yes, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many times.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.video.sega/browse_thread/thread/da0d83da33e157cd/eeb2f53badabaadd?lnk=st&q=belpowerslave%2C+360&rnum=11&hl=en#eeb2f53badabaadd
(I bash them 4 times there)
That is just one of the examples of the many times I bitched about MS
fucking the entire US with the 360's launch. I can provide quite a few
links if you'd like.
You certainly
> have a right to feel "shortages" is equivalent to "being fucked", as
> long as you blame every party that does it and not just one party.
True, but because we were talking about Sony, and Sony has an upcoming
launch(that they'll be fucking the US on) that's the one I chose to
talk about. Every console since, what, the DC has had this problem?
> > Hmmmm, I'm not sure I understand the question, or some of the things
> > said above. When you say the "Xbox had already pretty much croaked",
> > what do you mean by that? Also, in terms of "exclusive", are you
> > talking about hardware, software, peripherals?
>
> ofcourse I'm talking about software. The last exclusive game that I
> know of for Xbox is Halflife 2 (which isn't really since it's a PC
> port) or Call of Cthulu.. that was 4 months ago. Look up Microsoft's
> pipeline.. do you see any exclusives coming? I sure don't. THAT's what
> I mean by croaked.
Yeah, two games...that's all there is for Xbox exclusives. Come on
man...
> > Well, I look at it how I looked at Nintendo putting out their network
> > adapter: They did it for *one* game...ONE GAME. I kind of wonder if
> > Sony decided to make the slim PS2 incompatible with the HD because they
> > were afraid of the piracy that would come about with people dumping
> > games onto the HD(like pirates do on the Xbox).
>
> bingo.. it's PRECISELY because of piracy. Look at the HDloader.
Then I guessed right...and more importantly, it was the "right" that
goes along with your "right"!!!
> > I don't understand that "years later" talk. The PS3 is coming out this
> > fall, right? That's just *a* year, not "years". If MS is going to put
> > out the external, or second edition 360, they'll need to do it around
> > the time the PS3 comes out. If they don't, and they wait a few years,
> > then I'd have to say that it would flop(assuming they don't put out a
> > second edition 360).
>
> ok.. let me ask you this then. The 360 is what.. $300 for the core and
> $400 for the premium (CDN). Most of the analysts think the PS3 will be
> $500 (it would be suicide for them to price it any higher, they might
> bundle for the first little while). BR/HDDVD drives are going to be
> around $500 at the time the PS3 comes out, maybe a bit more. How much
> can Microsoft sell the add-on for?
Assuming MS doesn't drop the price of the 360, $100/$150 would be about
right. I can get a damn external DVD-R for my PC for $150...so I'd
guess MS can find a way to do this as well. You've got to remember,
it's *just* the drive in a casing. The 360, I'd assume, wouldn't need
anything else.
> > This above reply of yours really helps sum up what I've been saying. My
> > above post even says that it may flop hard(along with my speculation),
>
> I certainly don't see the pessimism in your evaluation of the HDDVD/BR
> addon. I mean you keep saying MS is RIGHT for now including it, and
> then bringing up the possibility of add-on. I must've missed this
> reality check among all your positive speculations.
What I've said, and I've said it more than a few times in this thread
is that *I* think that the external HD/BR drive would work, would be a
good thing. I've also said that, though it'll suck were MS to bring out
a second edition 360 with it built in(for the first edition buyers, as
they get fucked), that'd be a great selling point as well. Why does
this upset you so much? I mean, the PS3 has it built in...and you seem
happy with that. Why attack MS at all for attempting to add it to their
system?
> > The one tangible, actual thing I said negative of Sony...you never even
> > mentioned. You somehow missed it, something you could really have gone
> > after me for, and decided that the easy "win" would be to attack my
> > speculations as my only reply would have to be further speculation(that
> > which you could slap down, again), thus starting the cycle over again.
> > It doesn't really paint a pretty picture of who you are, and what
> > you're about. It's actually a very disturbing picture, of someone who
> > can't seem to grasp his own limitations.
>
> please.. all grandstanding aside. It's just you and me here. You don't
> really need to do all this posturing to try and gain any sympathy
> around here.. this is the Sega board afterall.
I'm not looking for sympathy, I'm looking for the reason you act the
way you do in here.
People don't need a
> reason to hate Sony here,
...so what's your reason for constantly coming in and "correcting"
their opinions on Sony?
so really all this fluff you're throwing
> around is just wasted.
You'd think...but you just go done replying to this tedious and fluffy
post.
How about we get back to discussing the real
> topics. The stuff you gave in the last two paragraphs (prior to this
> fluffy finale) was good.. do more that and less posturing and you can
> expect an intelligent debate from me.
No, I can expect you to consistantly tell me my opinion is wrong.
That's un-cool man.
Otherwise, you're on your own.
If you're suggesting that you'll stop doing this, being on my own would
be great.
Or
> do you prefer people just agreeing with you all the time and support
> your position?
Not at all, in fact I enjoy different viewpoints, it makes for
interesting converstation. What I don't "prefer" is someone showing up
to tell me my *opinion* is wrong.
Bel
--
Whip Ass Gaming: http://www.whipassgaming.com/
"I've provided ample reasoning as to why your opinion is WRONG."
- Eiji Hayashi, RGVS
benstylus
> http://www.break.com/index/patiencechild.html
>
> Amusing video, I know...but the image it shows, of a *child* sitting
> there freaking out as he sees something he doesn't like on the screen
> is just about accurate of your actions here yesterday.
>
>
As someone who speaks German and can understand what the kid in the
video is saying (when he's coherent), he's not really freaking out about
something he doesn't like, so much as freaking out because of load times.
Then he's freaking out because he's so happy to be playing the game.
Then he freaks out because of more load time.
Either way, he's still freaking out.
He's bipolar to the max...
Ted
BelPowerslave wrote:
snip
> > > I mean, look at how Sony managed to fuck buyers into that $50 network
> > > adapter...then just months later release a new PS2 that was not only
> > > thinner, but cheaper *and* included the adapter. I think MS can do the
> >
> > please don't make me spank you Bel. The network adapter was available
> > as early as summer 2001 while the slim PS2s didn't arrive until
> > Christmas 2004.. months later indeed
>
> Hmmmm, I could have sworn that some PS2 model came out with the
> adapter...I guess I thought it was the slim. Did the regular, thick-ass
> PS2 start coming with the adapter at some point?
snip
Yes; the thick PS2 was available with the network adapter in the box and
ATV Off Road Fury (uh, 2 I think) as a pretty standard "you get it when
you buy the system at any major retailer". I think it was actually the
only version of the PS2 available in the new supply chain for a few
months before the slimline came out.
BelPowerslave
I knew it. I knew that I had seen some sort of PS2 model that said "Network
adapter" on the box. Now that you mention ATV, I remember it had some sort of
racing game, that had to be it.
li...@mcmaster.ca
> Oh, yes you do...and after that last talk we had, when I went through
> your posts here in RGVS, I know you know, as you replied to a lot of
> the people calling you that.
no I don't.. and I think it's past time I do both of us a favor,
because it seems like you think even a one liner from me responding to
a big paragraph of your fluff means I'm actually paying attention to
your posturing. So.. are you ready?
<SNIP> (wow.. that sure saved alot of time)
> Well, for those who don't own either system, I agree, the PS3's BR
> drive is going to be a huge selling point. I don't think it'll be as
> bit for those with a 360. Again, notice, "I don't think"...doesn't mean
> that I'm attempting to sway you, or anyone else towards my thoughts.
That's why I'm sure you'll notice that I actually talked about the
other scenario as well
> > Now for the people that already have a 360, their decision then is 1)
> > buy an add-on to their 360, or 2) buy a standalone BR/HDDVD player. I
> > would argue that such an add-on won't cost substantially less than a
> > standalone player. Why? it's going to be external so you're not saving
> > on any shared mechanism here except possibly they might save some money
> > and omit the red laser and use the 360's built-in drive for reading
> > DVDs and the add-on purely for reading BR/HDDVD, but most of the
> > mechanism will have to be there externally, just like a standalone
> > player. Also, as most people know, standalone players tend to have
> > better performance, another reason why people would most likely be more
> > inclined to buying a standalone player. Given both of these scenarios,
> > I fail to see why any potential add-on would be popular.
>
> See, the above is how you do it. That was civil, that was well thought
> out, there wasn't any undermining need to attack or be superior to the
> discussion.
hold on.. I wrote a whole paragraph of reasoning and THIS is all you've
got to say?
> > nope
>
> Man, I could have sworn that they were packing it with the adapter at
> some point. Well, I was wrong there, sorry about that.
That's why I said "don't make me spank you Bel", because I really
didn't want to point out your mistake, but it seems your opinion of
Sony "fucking over" the user is based on this error, so I feel I must
correct you
> > the whole point of region locking was to deter piracy. Then Sony found
> > out that not only does it NOT deter piracy, it in fact HELPs piracy
> > since it's actually EASIER to play pirated import games, than original
> > import games. So I'm totally not surprised they've come to their
> > senses.
>
> Well, other than the portables, this will be, what, the first console
> ever to actually have this as a feature. More power to'em, wish they
> could convince Nintendo and MS to do the same.
While Nintendo might have something to gain from this (though not as
much as Sony) region free is practically useless for MS because most of
what comes out in Japan for Xbox comes out in North America anyways. I
have no doubt that Enchant Arms, Tengai Makyo Ziria, Energy Airforce
and N3 will all come to North America, if they havn't been announced
already. Recall even titles that were originally said to be Japan only,
like Phantom Dust, eventually comes out. I can almost count on my hands
how many Xbox games are exclusive to Japan. North American Xbox owners
isn't missing much, Bistro Cupid, Shikigami no Shiro, Puchi Copter,
Shin Megami Tensei Nine, and maybe a dozen others at the most. But PS2
owners could literally have their library increase by 50% to doubled if
they could play imports as 50% of Japanese PS2 games or more by my
estimate never comes out.
> Think about what you saying, "logical reasons to refute my *opinion*".
> This is what's wrong with you, you attempt to presume that you can tell
> people that their opinions are actually *wrong*. This is what makes you
> a prick. You can't go around telling people that their opinions are
> wrong. Yet you do this anytime you don't like what someone has posted.
no.. I don't presume, I KNOW I can tell people that I think their
opinion is wrong. I see absolutely nothing wrong with this.
> > YOU: I think this is what's going to happen
> > ME: No I think you're wrong, and here're the reasons why.........
> > YOU: Why are you being so mean and attacking me?
>
> Oh, no, I can't believe you even attempted this. Anyone who has read
> this thread is going to see an issue with the "me" part of that.
some people will have problem with "no I think you're wrong"? Sorry
man, but there's nothing wrong with that. If I had said "no I KNOW
you're wrong", in reference to an event that hasn't happened yet then
that's obviously not right, since nobody is able to foresee the future.
But there is absolutely nothing wrong with me saying "I think your
opinion is wrong".
> A minute ago you were "refuting" it:
>
> re·fute (ri-fyut') pronunciation
> tr.v., -fut·ed, -fut·ing, -futes.
>
> 1. To prove to be false or erroneous; overthrow by argument or
> proof: refute testimony.
> 2. To deny the accuracy or truth of: refuted the results of the
> poll.
you really need to think this through Bel.. about what I just said
above.
> You certainly
> > have a right to feel "shortages" is equivalent to "being fucked", as
> > long as you blame every party that does it and not just one party.
>
> True, but because we were talking about Sony, and Sony has an upcoming
> launch(that they'll be fucking the US on) that's the one I chose to
> talk about. Every console since, what, the DC has had this problem?
I fail to see the logic of you bringing this up then
> > > Hmmmm, I'm not sure I understand the question, or some of the things
> > > said above. When you say the "Xbox had already pretty much croaked",
> > > what do you mean by that? Also, in terms of "exclusive", are you
> > > talking about hardware, software, peripherals?
> >
> > ofcourse I'm talking about software. The last exclusive game that I
> > know of for Xbox is Halflife 2 (which isn't really since it's a PC
> > port) or Call of Cthulu.. that was 4 months ago. Look up Microsoft's
> > pipeline.. do you see any exclusives coming? I sure don't. THAT's what
> > I mean by croaked.
>
> Yeah, two games...that's all there is for Xbox exclusives. Come on
> man...
ok.. now you're INTENTIONALLY being coy. It's quite obvious from the
get-go I'm talking about Xbox(1) exclusive software since the 360
launched, yet you continue to play dumb by first saying "oh.. is that
hardware, software? blah blah", and now acting like I'm talking about
ALL Xbox games ever. Don't avoid the subject. Here let me spell it out
for you the original context during which I bought it up since you seem
to have some difficulty understanding it:
Sony is well within their rights to release an enhanced version of the
PS2 3 years after it's launch, and putting in some hardware that wasn't
in the original design. Especially when you consider that's most of
the entire life of some other consoles.. namely the Xbox 1, which
hasn't had any exclusive games that I'm aware of ever since the 360
launched, a mere 4 years into the original Xbox's life, nor does it
have any more exclusive games in it's future. Nor did Microsoft, during
it's life, offered it's consumers any more value-added features, by
enhancing the original Xbox in any way. In conclusion, I think it's
completely incomprehensible how you could chide Sony for offering it's
consumers a better, redesigned machine with more hardware, for the same
price, as "fucking over it's consumers".
> > ok.. let me ask you this then. The 360 is what.. $300 for the core and
> > $400 for the premium (CDN). Most of the analysts think the PS3 will be
> > $500 (it would be suicide for them to price it any higher, they might
> > bundle for the first little while). BR/HDDVD drives are going to be
> > around $500 at the time the PS3 comes out, maybe a bit more. How much
> > can Microsoft sell the add-on for?
>
> Assuming MS doesn't drop the price of the 360, $100/$150 would be about
> right. I can get a damn external DVD-R for my PC for $150...so I'd
> guess MS can find a way to do this as well. You've got to remember,
> it's *just* the drive in a casing. The 360, I'd assume, wouldn't need
> anything else.
you think by the time the PS3 comes out MS can sell a complete add-on
external HD-DVD or BR drive for $100 - $150? wow.. that's pretty
optimistic when the cheapest HD-DVD drive (which hasn't even launched
yet) is $500. So you're predicting a 80% depreciation within 6 months?
just curious.. but what kind of basis do you have for this assumption?
> What I've said, and I've said it more than a few times in this thread
> is that *I* think that the external HD/BR drive would work, would be a
> good thing. I've also said that, though it'll suck were MS to bring out
> a second edition 360 with it built in(for the first edition buyers, as
> they get fucked), that'd be a great selling point as well. Why does
> this upset you so much? I mean, the PS3 has it built in...and you seem
> happy with that. Why attack MS at all for attempting to add it to their
> system?
first of all.. I'm not "upset", I'm just confused how you could think
an external HD/BR drive would fly, especially when you havn't offered a
shread of reasoning, just like that 80% depreciation prediction above.
It's completely incomprehensible and baseless. You offered no
explaination as to why you think it will work, other than that you
think it will and it's going to be successful. I'm challenging you.. I
say no, I don't think so, and I've offered my reasons. Now it's your
turn.
BelPowerslave
> > your posts here in RGVS, I know you know, as you replied to a lot of
> > the people calling you that.
>
> no I don't.. and I think it's past time I do both of us a favor,
> because it seems like you think even a one liner from me responding to
> a big paragraph of your fluff means I'm actually paying attention to
> your posturing. So.. are you ready?
>
> <SNIP> (wow.. that sure saved alot of time)
...and made us all very certain that you are very scared of my
questions as to your behavior. Hey, I don't blame you, if I ran around
acting the way you do and someone called me on it, I probably wouldn't
want to have to explain it either...
> > > Now for the people that already have a 360, their decision then is 1)
> > > buy an add-on to their 360, or 2) buy a standalone BR/HDDVD player. I
> > > would argue that such an add-on won't cost substantially less than a
> > > standalone player. Why? it's going to be external so you're not saving
> > > on any shared mechanism here except possibly they might save some money
> > > and omit the red laser and use the 360's built-in drive for reading
> > > DVDs and the add-on purely for reading BR/HDDVD, but most of the
> > > mechanism will have to be there externally, just like a standalone
> > > player. Also, as most people know, standalone players tend to have
> > > better performance, another reason why people would most likely be more
> > > inclined to buying a standalone player. Given both of these scenarios,
> > > I fail to see why any potential add-on would be popular.
> >
> > See, the above is how you do it. That was civil, that was well thought
> > out, there wasn't any undermining need to attack or be superior to the
> > discussion.
>
> hold on.. I wrote a whole paragraph of reasoning and THIS is all you've
> got to say?
I'm sorry...I was going to give my opinion on it...but...
"I've provided ample reasoning as to why your opinion is WRONG."
- Eiji Hayashi, RGVS
> > Man, I could have sworn that they were packing it with the adapter at
> > some point. Well, I was wrong there, sorry about that.
>
> That's why I said "don't make me spank you Bel", because I really
> didn't want to point out your mistake, but it seems your opinion of
> Sony "fucking over" the user is based on this error, so I feel I must
> correct you
...and what of Ted's news?
> > > the whole point of region locking was to deter piracy. Then Sony found
> > > out that not only does it NOT deter piracy, it in fact HELPs piracy
> > > since it's actually EASIER to play pirated import games, than original
> > > import games. So I'm totally not surprised they've come to their
> > > senses.
> >
> > Well, other than the portables, this will be, what, the first console
> > ever to actually have this as a feature. More power to'em, wish they
> > could convince Nintendo and MS to do the same.
>
> While Nintendo might have something to gain from this (though not as
> much as Sony) region free is practically useless for MS because most of
> what comes out in Japan for Xbox comes out in North America anyways. I
> have no doubt that Enchant Arms, Tengai Makyo Ziria, Energy Airforce
> and N3 will all come to North America, if they havn't been announced
> already. Recall even titles that were originally said to be Japan only,
> like Phantom Dust, eventually comes out. I can almost count on my hands
> how many Xbox games are exclusive to Japan. North American Xbox owners
> isn't missing much, Bistro Cupid, Shikigami no Shiro, Puchi Copter,
> Shin Megami Tensei Nine, and maybe a dozen others at the most. But PS2
> owners could literally have their library increase by 50% to doubled if
> they could play imports as 50% of Japanese PS2 games or more by my
> estimate never comes out.
Agreed. So, the PS3 will allow for region free play for all three of
the PS systems(PS3, 2 and 1)? That'd be very nice.
> > Think about what you saying, "logical reasons to refute my *opinion*".
> > This is what's wrong with you, you attempt to presume that you can tell
> > people that their opinions are actually *wrong*. This is what makes you
> > a prick. You can't go around telling people that their opinions are
> > wrong. Yet you do this anytime you don't like what someone has posted.
>
> no.. I don't presume, I KNOW I can tell people that I think their
> opinion is wrong. I see absolutely nothing wrong with this.
This is what classifies you as an "ass", and an arrogant one at that.
> > > YOU: I think this is what's going to happen
> > > ME: No I think you're wrong, and here're the reasons why.........
> > > YOU: Why are you being so mean and attacking me?
> >
> > Oh, no, I can't believe you even attempted this. Anyone who has read
> > this thread is going to see an issue with the "me" part of that.
>
> some people will have problem with "no I think you're wrong"? Sorry
> man, but there's nothing wrong with that. If I had said "no I KNOW
> you're wrong", in reference to an event that hasn't happened yet then
> that's obviously not right, since nobody is able to foresee the future.
There wouldn't be...if that's what you actually said, you're making it
seem like you were "playing nice" when you were running off at the
mouth as usual.
> But there is absolutely nothing wrong with me saying "I think your
> opinion is wrong".
Yes there is.
> > A minute ago you were "refuting" it:
> >
> > re·fute (ri-fyut') pronunciation
> > tr.v., -fut·ed, -fut·ing, -futes.
> >
> > 1. To prove to be false or erroneous; overthrow by argument or
> > proof: refute testimony.
> > 2. To deny the accuracy or truth of: refuted the results of the
> > poll.
>
> you really need to think this through Bel.. about what I just said
> above.
You cannot tell people their opinion is wrong. With all your ducking on
my questions, I notice you also cut my question as to what would happen
if someone pulled that stunt on you.
> > True, but because we were talking about Sony, and Sony has an upcoming
> > launch(that they'll be fucking the US on) that's the one I chose to
> > talk about. Every console since, what, the DC has had this problem?
>
> I fail to see the logic of you bringing this up then
Every company has the problem, it was an effort to show you I wasn't
singling Sony out on it.
> > Yeah, two games...that's all there is for Xbox exclusives. Come on
> > man...
>
> ok.. now you're INTENTIONALLY being coy.
Ya think?
It's quite obvious from the
> get-go I'm talking about Xbox(1) exclusive software since the 360
> launched, yet you continue to play dumb by first saying "oh.. is that
> hardware, software? blah blah", and now acting like I'm talking about
> ALL Xbox games ever.
I'm sorry I must have missed that when you tried to tell me that Xbox
had 2 exclusives.
>Don't avoid the subject.
Wow, let me get Scott's signature real quick for you:
Hypocrite
Gr: Hupokrites;
1. an actor, stage player
2. a dissembler, pretender, hypocrite
Dissembler(Synonym of hypocrite);
1 : to hide under a false appearance
2 : to put on the appearance of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_%28law%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fact_(law)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanboy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_argument
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
Here let me spell it out
> for you the original context during which I bought it up since you seem
> to have some difficulty understanding it:
Of course....because you need to "help" me, because you're so far above
all this.
> Sony is well within their rights to release an enhanced version of the
> PS2 3 years after it's launch, and putting in some hardware that wasn't
> in the original design. Especially when you consider that's most of
> the entire life of some other consoles.. namely the Xbox 1, which
> hasn't had any exclusive games that I'm aware of ever
Here's a big issue: "which hasn't had any exclusive games that I'm
aware of ever". Wow, if *you're* not aware of the Xbox's library, then
who is!? I know when I think of experienced Xbox user, I think of
Eiji!!!
since the 360
> launched, a mere 4 years into the original Xbox's life, nor does it
> have any more exclusive games in it's future. Nor did Microsoft, during
> it's life, offered it's consumers any more value-added features, by
> enhancing the original Xbox in any way. In conclusion, I think it's
> completely incomprehensible how you could chide Sony for offering it's
> consumers a better, redesigned machine with more hardware, for the same
> price, as "fucking over it's consumers".
Wonderful, Eiji finds it incomprehensible. Well, Goddamn, let's just
shut the door on this then, it's clearly over.
> > Assuming MS doesn't drop the price of the 360, $100/$150 would be about
> > right. I can get a damn external DVD-R for my PC for $150...so I'd
> > guess MS can find a way to do this as well. You've got to remember,
> > it's *just* the drive in a casing. The 360, I'd assume, wouldn't need
> > anything else.
>
> you think by the time the PS3 comes out MS can sell a complete add-on
> external HD-DVD or BR drive for $100 - $150? wow.. that's pretty
> optimistic when the cheapest HD-DVD drive (which hasn't even launched
> yet) is $500. So you're predicting a 80% depreciation within 6 months?
> just curious..
The drive itself can't be that expensive, it's gotta be all mark
up(like when DVD players first lauched at their crazy-ass prices). MS
can manufactur the drives themselves, if they want to. The great thing
about this is, you're looking at it as an argument, one that you could
actually win...that there could be a winner at all. Guess what:
November comes around, MS doesn't release an HD External drive, there's
no second edition Xbox 360 with it built in....and........what exactly?
I've somehow lost credibility, my surefire, 100% accurate portrayal of
what's to come has ruined me? Yeah....
>but what kind of basis do you have for this assumption?
None big boy. It's speculation.
> > What I've said, and I've said it more than a few times in this thread
> > is that *I* think that the external HD/BR drive would work, would be a
> > good thing. I've also said that, though it'll suck were MS to bring out
> > a second edition 360 with it built in(for the first edition buyers, as
> > they get fucked), that'd be a great selling point as well. Why does
> > this upset you so much? I mean, the PS3 has it built in...and you seem
> > happy with that. Why attack MS at all for attempting to add it to their
> > system?
>
> first of all.. I'm not "upset", I'm just confused how you could think
> an external HD/BR drive would fly, especially when you havn't offered a
> shread of reasoning, just like that 80% depreciation prediction above.
Were I trying to convince you, or anyone else that it definitely will
happen this way...sure, I'd try to actually give you a reason.
Speculation on my part...just talking...at some point I think you may
understand this(now I'm the teacher!!!).
> It's completely incomprehensible and baseless. You offered no
> explaination as to why you think it will work, other than that you
> think it will and it's going to be successful. I'm challenging you.. I
> say no, I don't think so, and I've offered my reasons. Now it's your
> turn.
No, you've gone about kicking and screaming because you felt someone
was challenging Sony, and the PS3. You know, if I were talking about
the Revolution(which initially I was), you wouldn't have even wasted
any of your time on the thread...you sure didn't have any problems with
what I said about the Revolutions and its emulated library.
You know man, it's getting back to the point where everytime you open
your mouth I just want to stick my penis in it as it's going to be a
better use of your time. You sit here and troll this group, attacking
anyone who has anything negative to say about Sony, then have the nerve
to tell us that we, in the SEGA USENET GROUP, don't have free reign to
say what we want without being assured of your rebuttal as your reason
for doing so. You even go so far as to believe you have the power to
not only tell people their opinions are wrong, but that you can
actually negate it by using yours. That's fucked. You are a sad
individual who has been falling down for a long time, and has pretty
much graduated to being a full time troll. You used to be a decent
guy...your older posts were great, but nowadays you're a piece of shit.
I'll let you have the last lick here, and that's it...I'm done with
you. After this it's back to square one with you and I...
li...@mcmaster.ca
> > <SNIP> (wow.. that sure saved alot of time)
>
> ...and made us all very certain that you are very scared of my
> questions as to your behavior. Hey, I don't blame you, if I ran around
> acting the way you do and someone called me on it, I probably wouldn't
> want to have to explain it either...
yeah ok.. whatever makes you feel better
> > > > Now for the people that already have a 360, their decision then is 1)
> > > > buy an add-on to their 360, or 2) buy a standalone BR/HDDVD player. I
> > > > would argue that such an add-on won't cost substantially less than a
> > > > standalone player. Why? it's going to be external so you're not saving
> > > > on any shared mechanism here except possibly they might save some money
> > > > and omit the red laser and use the 360's built-in drive for reading
> > > > DVDs and the add-on purely for reading BR/HDDVD, but most of the
> > > > mechanism will have to be there externally, just like a standalone
> > > > player. Also, as most people know, standalone players tend to have
> > > > better performance, another reason why people would most likely be more
> > > > inclined to buying a standalone player. Given both of these scenarios,
> > > > I fail to see why any potential add-on would be popular.
> > >
> > > See, the above is how you do it. That was civil, that was well thought
> > > out, there wasn't any undermining need to attack or be superior to the
> > > discussion.
> >
> > hold on.. I wrote a whole paragraph of reasoning and THIS is all you've
> > got to say?
>
> I'm sorry...I was going to give my opinion on it...but...
well? what is it? all the previous text remains quoted. You still have
a chance.. if you have anything intelligible to say, which I'm having
more and more doubt of with all your posturing
> ...and what of Ted's news?
what about him? he corrected me about the status of UMDs. He's correct,
I admitted as much. So I moved on. That's a completely unrelated issue
to this.
> > While Nintendo might have something to gain from this (though not as
> > much as Sony) region free is practically useless for MS because most of
> > what comes out in Japan for Xbox comes out in North America anyways. I
> > have no doubt that Enchant Arms, Tengai Makyo Ziria, Energy Airforce
> > and N3 will all come to North America, if they havn't been announced
> > already. Recall even titles that were originally said to be Japan only,
> > like Phantom Dust, eventually comes out. I can almost count on my hands
> > how many Xbox games are exclusive to Japan. North American Xbox owners
> > isn't missing much, Bistro Cupid, Shikigami no Shiro, Puchi Copter,
> > Shin Megami Tensei Nine, and maybe a dozen others at the most. But PS2
> > owners could literally have their library increase by 50% to doubled if
> > they could play imports as 50% of Japanese PS2 games or more by my
> > estimate never comes out.
>
> Agreed. So, the PS3 will allow for region free play for all three of
> the PS systems(PS3, 2 and 1)? That'd be very nice.
err.. well, that we don't know yet. Would be nice though.
> > no.. I don't presume, I KNOW I can tell people that I think their
> > opinion is wrong. I see absolutely nothing wrong with this.
>
> This is what classifies you as an "ass", and an arrogant one at that.
well.. I don't know how on earth you get through life then since you're
bound to find someone that thinks your opinion is wrong
> > > > YOU: I think this is what's going to happen
> > > > ME: No I think you're wrong, and here're the reasons why.........
> > > > YOU: Why are you being so mean and attacking me?
> > >
> > > Oh, no, I can't believe you even attempted this. Anyone who has read
> > > this thread is going to see an issue with the "me" part of that.
> >
> > some people will have problem with "no I think you're wrong"? Sorry
> > man, but there's nothing wrong with that. If I had said "no I KNOW
> > you're wrong", in reference to an event that hasn't happened yet then
> > that's obviously not right, since nobody is able to foresee the future.
>
> There wouldn't be...if that's what you actually said, you're making it
> seem like you were "playing nice" when you were running off at the
> mouth as usual.
What the HELL are you talking about that's not what I actually said!
The text is QUOTED above. "ME: No I think you're wrong....", can it be
any more obvious?
> > But there is absolutely nothing wrong with me saying "I think your
> > opinion is wrong".
>
> Yes there is.
well then you shouldn't be around usenet, or the real business world,
because you'll get slammed won 3 times and day and they're often not as
restrained as I am
> You cannot tell people their opinion is wrong. With all your ducking on
> my questions, I notice you also cut my question as to what would happen
> if someone pulled that stunt on you.
no problems.. as long as they provided reason, I can argue with them
> > > True, but because we were talking about Sony, and Sony has an upcoming
> > > launch(that they'll be fucking the US on) that's the one I chose to
> > > talk about. Every console since, what, the DC has had this problem?
> >
> > I fail to see the logic of you bringing this up then
>
> Every company has the problem, it was an effort to show you I wasn't
> singling Sony out on it.
so.. what's your point exactly? how is this relevent to your opinion of
Sony "fucking over" it's users. or do you have one
> > > Yeah, two games...that's all there is for Xbox exclusives. Come on
> > > man...
> >
> > ok.. now you're INTENTIONALLY being coy.
>
> Ya think?
so you know you've got no rebuttal to my argument, and yet you continue
to posture like I'm wrong in order to drag things out and hopefully
make me leave out of sheer boredom is that it?
> It's quite obvious from the
> > get-go I'm talking about Xbox(1) exclusive software since the 360
> > launched, yet you continue to play dumb by first saying "oh.. is that
> > hardware, software? blah blah", and now acting like I'm talking about
> > ALL Xbox games ever.
>
> I'm sorry I must have missed that when you tried to tell me that Xbox
> had 2 exclusives.
oh.. more playing dumb huh.. ok, I'm going to cut to the meat of it
then
> > Sony is well within their rights to release an enhanced version of the
> > PS2 3 years after it's launch, and putting in some hardware that wasn't
> > in the original design. Especially when you consider that's most of
> > the entire life of some other consoles.. namely the Xbox 1, which
> > hasn't had any exclusive games that I'm aware of ever
>
> Here's a big issue: "which hasn't had any exclusive games that I'm
> aware of ever". Wow, if *you're* not aware of the Xbox's library, then
> who is!? I know when I think of experienced Xbox user, I think of
> Eiji!!!
well.. feel free to jump in. If you think I made a wrong statement
here, provide your proof. So.. what games DID come out exclusively for
Xbox since the 360 launched hum?? well? I'm waiting... you keep making
it sound like I'm making it up I like you to provide evidence that I'm
wrong. Why can't you give a straight answer?
> since the 360
> > launched, a mere 4 years into the original Xbox's life, nor does it
> > have any more exclusive games in it's future. Nor did Microsoft, during
> > it's life, offered it's consumers any more value-added features, by
> > enhancing the original Xbox in any way. In conclusion, I think it's
> > completely incomprehensible how you could chide Sony for offering it's
> > consumers a better, redesigned machine with more hardware, for the same
> > price, as "fucking over it's consumers".
>
> Wonderful, Eiji finds it incomprehensible. Well, Goddamn, let's just
> shut the door on this then, it's clearly over.
so I can come on usenet with a ridiculous assertion like "the Earth is
made of cheese", and I can use your word "shut the world" on everyone
else who tries to contradict me as saying just because they find it
incomprehensible that the Earth is made of cheese, and offered all
kinds of evidence that it isn't, doesn't mean squat, and that the Earth
is still made of cheese. There is a rudimentary amount of logic that is
required, even on a public form, otherwise we'll have to start at first
principle "I think therefore I am", for every single discussion ever.
> > you think by the time the PS3 comes out MS can sell a complete add-on
> > external HD-DVD or BR drive for $100 - $150? wow.. that's pretty
> > optimistic when the cheapest HD-DVD drive (which hasn't even launched
> > yet) is $500. So you're predicting a 80% depreciation within 6 months?
> > just curious..
>
> The drive itself can't be that expensive, it's gotta be all mark
> up(like when DVD players first lauched at their crazy-ass prices). MS
ok.. so... instead of saying they 80% depreciation you're saying they
have an 80% profit margin on the drives. Well then, I think every
analyst in the world disagrees with you there. There are plenty of
industry analysts that posted their forecast of how much the new player
will cost and it sure as hell isn't $100-$150. OK.. but now you're
going to say "they're just analysts, my opinion is just as valid as
theirs". If everything being equal, ie: if you have access to insider
industry staff and data then maybe, but everything is not equal, which
implies that your opinion is not as informed, and therefore theirs are
far more likely to be correct.
> can manufactur the drives themselves, if they want to. The great thing
let me ask you a question.. when the hell has MS made ANY hardware
themselves? you do know that Xbox and 360 were completely contracted
out to OEMs right? Microsoft doesn't have any hardware manufacturing
capabilities of their own.
> about this is, you're looking at it as an argument, one that you could
> actually win...that there could be a winner at all. Guess what:
> November comes around, MS doesn't release an HD External drive, there's
> no second edition Xbox 360 with it built in....and........what exactly?
> I've somehow lost credibility, my surefire, 100% accurate portrayal of
> what's to come has ruined me? Yeah....
it means you didn't take into consideration certain factors which made
your opinion wrong
> >but what kind of basis do you have for this assumption?
>
> None big boy. It's speculation.
so I can speculate that the 360 won't get any more games after 2006 and
that's just as valid right? There's wild guess, and there's hypothesis.
There's no point posting wild guesses on usenet or anywhere else
because you can always fall back on "that's what I think it's going to
happen and that's that.. and I don't have to give any reason
whatsoever". Doesn't make for much discussion, which is what usenet is
for.
> Were I trying to convince you, or anyone else that it definitely will
> happen this way...sure, I'd try to actually give you a reason.
> Speculation on my part...just talking...at some point I think you may
> understand this(now I'm the teacher!!!).
so I can just go and say the 360 will be dead next year in the 360
group right? you don't think I'm going to get called on that?
> No, you've gone about kicking and screaming because you felt someone
> was challenging Sony, and the PS3. You know, if I were talking about
> the Revolution(which initially I was), you wouldn't have even wasted
> any of your time on the thread...you sure didn't have any problems with
> what I said about the Revolutions and its emulated library.
you're probably right about that. But what exactly does that prove?
I'll take care of the Sony bashing and let someone else handle the
Nintendo bashing. I can't do everything myself.
> You know man, it's getting back to the point where everytime you open
> your mouth I just want to stick my penis in it as it's going to be a
> better use of your time. You sit here and troll this group, attacking
> anyone who has anything negative to say about Sony, then have the nerve
> to tell us that we, in the SEGA USENET GROUP, don't have free reign to
> say what we want without being assured of your rebuttal as your reason
yeah I do think that if anyone makes some stupid unsubstantiated
comment about Sony that I'm well within my right to call them on it. If
you don't, then sadly you've mistaken r.g.v.s as your private
playground. Sorry Bel, but RGVS isn't some private sega love-in club.
> for doing so. You even go so far as to believe you have the power to
> not only tell people their opinions are wrong, but that you can
I certainly can tell people I think their reason is wrong. If not there
wouldn't be a world as we know it today.
> actually negate it by using yours. That's fucked. You are a sad
> individual who has been falling down for a long time, and has pretty
> much graduated to being a full time troll. You used to be a decent
> guy...your older posts were great, but nowadays you're a piece of shit.
> I'll let you have the last lick here, and that's it...I'm done with
> you. After this it's back to square one with you and I...
sadly.. you've chosen to fall back on your old days of using usenet as
your own private arena to post your anti-Sony propaganda. The fact that
you refuse to give me straight answers or reasoning to support your own
anti-Sony position is probably more proof than anything of your true
intentions.That's ok.. I never believe you would change anyways.