FOX hunt Challenge?!
Loneso...@lon.net
I notice that some of the players - in fact some Masters -
seriously Challenge
the "Outfoxing the Foxes" technique ( Ray G ). In fact some posters
call it an outright
"psycho scam".
I mean no offense to Ray, or his technique- or book.
I am sitting on the fence neutral - just trying to get the " lay
of the land"
( Pun intended, ha! )
However, my questions will address what I believe I see are on the
players minds.
( Please correct me if I am in error)
QUESTIONS
Q1 Do the players feel Ray's techniques vacillate too much? I.E.:
He has no
Core set of workable beliefs? He's just winging it and furiously
gathering new
material as his ideas are shot down?
Q2 Are the players waiting for the book to make final judgment?
Q3 Is the book, only a "newbie starter level only" approach.
Perhaps good
for newbies only. Therefore, the real players see no value in
it?
Q4 Do the players feel, Ray is not a proven PU artist, and the
techniques are untested
and suspect?
Q5 Do the players feel, Rays posts are "much ado about nothing? "
I.e.:
Put the book out - let the chips fall as they may. But stop
the constant hype/
damage control?
and THE BIGGIE....... ta da!!!!
Q6:: Has, or why has not, Ross Challenged Ray to the similar Eagan PU
challenge?
( or vice versa )
WOULDN'T THIS CHALLENGE PUT wagging tongues to rest?
Final: Q7 Any other insights for an impartial newbie?
Lonesome " confused newbie " Larry
Wayne Sutton
Loneso...@Lon.net wrote in message <3626C716...@Lon.net>...
Outfoxing The Foxes
As a newbie,
I notice that some of the players - in fact some Masters - seriously
Challenge
the "Outfoxing the Foxes" technique ( Ray G ). In fact some posters
call it an outright "psycho scam".
<---It's not a scam. It's my method. And no one's seen the whole book.
The most accurate reviews will come from neutral parties, not here. This
is my home ground. Did you see anyone quoting USENET on Politically
Incorrect? The mainstream is only going to care about the ideas in the
book. Look at how they treat other books for guidance.
I mean no offense to Ray, or his technique- or book.
<----None taken.
I am sitting on the fence neutral - just trying to get the " lay of
the land"
<-----Every guy here thinks he knows his shit. Myself included.
( Pun intended, ha! )
However, my questions will address what I believe I see are on the
players minds.
<-----Cool.
( Please correct me if I am in error)
QUESTIONS
Q1 Do the players feel Ray's techniques vacillate too much? I.E.:
He has no Core set of workable beliefs? He's just winging it and
furiously
gathering new material as his ideas are shot down?
<-----I would say no. At least not on alt.romance. Here you see a lot of
people with stuff to plug so they are going to trash everyone. Look at
R. Don and Ross as examples.
Q2 Are the players waiting for the book to make final judgment?
<------That would be the wise thing to do.
Q3 Is the book, only a "newbie starter level only" approach.
Perhaps good for newbies only. Therefore, the real players see no
value in
it?
<------Heck no. Anyone who follows every recommendation in the book
would likely enjoy the best results of his life. But those results would
vary according to his CUPID rating.
Q4 Do the players feel, Ray is not a proven PU artist, and the
techniques are untested and suspect?
<------I'd be happy to have an hour next to Leeza Gibbons; I doubt she'd
be recoiling in my presence. I'll debate ANY relationship expert
one-on-one and let the viewers decide. Am I "proven?" I don't know. I
know if I start from scratch I can usually meet new women very quickly,
and rather effortlessly. I also know other men can do the same. How
this is done is up to the man, but there are some principles which serve
me very well. There's more than enough in the book for everyone. And
the CUPID rating system is sound. That's my statistical background's
influence. I also have designed a power rating method for college
basketball -- PowerBase -- which is very sound. CUPID is actually
derived from it.
Q5 Do the players feel, Rays posts are "much ado about nothing? "
I.e.: Put the book out - let the chips fall as they may. But stop the
constant hype/ damage control?
<---------The book is being put out. But I want it to be a quality
product. Forgive my attention to detail.
and THE BIGGIE....... ta da!!!!
Q6:: Has, or why has not, Ross Challenged Ray to the similar Eagan PU
challenge?
( or vice versa )
WOULDN'T THIS CHALLENGE PUT wagging tongues to rest?
<-------Not really. But I'd go for it. And since sex is the goal, I
don't think we can videotape the closings, can we? It's too easy to bias
or orchestrate these types of situations. A debate and a field test
would be good. But I've already had men field test my method. The ones
who have used it in depth have said it worked wonderfully.
Final: Q7 Any other insights for an impartial newbie?
<-------I'd say learn how to mock women and tease them, or as Mystery
says, "Negative Hit" them. A negative hit is just a way of saying to a
woman that you are onto what she is doing. Like if she cancels a date at
the last minute without rescheduling it and then says "Call me sometime."
You can just say "Don't worry, I'm a big boy. Hint taken." Or just
"Hint taken." It tells her you haven't swalloed her crap. What to do
after that is different by each man, but the principles are similar.
A lot of what I write incorporates Ross's methods. I talk about
"indirect seduction" and he calls it "running patterns." To me, a
pattern is a tool of indirect seduction; patterns are just "routines"
that you master, like a chess position you have studied inside-out for
hours or even days and which your opponent (the female) is seeing for the
very first time. In chess they call this being "out of book." The
player who is "booked up" has a large advantage.
Foxhunting has one major advantage over Speed Seduction in that the
Foxhunter never has to risk rejection. His focus is on making himself as
desirable as possible to the opposite sex in general, and taking a
wholistic approach to seduction whereby everything at his disposal is
brought into play. It is the Steinitz chess principle of the "gradual
accumulation of small advantages" that has won many chessgames, although
the Bobby Fischer principle -- the rapid accumulation of large advantages
-- can be applied when your competition is weaker than you.
I try to ignore the spinmeisters out here and stay true to myself. I
think that most truly successful artists learn rather early in life that
one day the world will march at least a few beats to their drum if they
get the beat down properly. Would you rather Jim Morrison had been a
cookie-cutter 60's-style teen-idol musician? He probably would have been
good, but we never would have had the contributions to music that only he
could make. Difference of opinion is what makes a horse race.
The newbie who fears rejection can begin improving his results almost
immediately by becoming a Foxhunter. Each Foxhunter is going to have a
different style and use the technique for different purposes.
Right now the book is about 68,000 words. That's a good length for a
book. it's presented rather logically and is written pretty well, or at
least I think so. I think a manuscript can always be improved upon, and
new ideas replace old ones as merited, but there also comes a point where
you have to release what you've done to the public. I've about reached
that point.
The first incarnations of my book were very one-dimensional. One was
based on CUPID, another on indirect seduction, another on posturing, and
so forth. But when I condensed each "book" into a chapter or a section,
the resulting product was much more thorough and compact. I've seen
enough books on the market not to lose sleep over the quality judgements
that might come my way. I know I wrote something good with an effort
worthy of publication. As a writer, I can't worry about the critical
results, because doing so would negatively influence the product. It's
the same when you run a race: any energy spent worrying about the finish
line is going to slow you down and help to make the worry come true.
I challenge any man or woman reading this to sit down and write their own
book if they think that it's easy. Most people will start, get a chapter
or two down, and then watch as they fill page after page with a random
walk of garbage. I have avoided this, and I also will have a manuscript
that is virtually error-free in its use of language. I come from two
parents, one who was a writer who was married five times (my dad got very
busy in his 59 years), and the other owned a typing service. Both
parents were in mail order as well. The combined exposure lets me carry
a book from start to finish: write it, edit it, format it, publish it,
and market it. For someone else to do what I do would require similar
exposure; it might not be a model for other writers, but because of my
background it works for me.
It could be that those who attack me acknowledge my methods work with
women but are just a bit jealous and/or threatened by the idea that I
might have put out a better product than they did, or put one out when
they produced nothing of their own.
Thank you for your neutrality. That's all I ever ask for from anyone.
___________________________________________________________________
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Loneso...@lon.net
- will be looking forward the the exciting grand release of the book -
And also any advanced comments you can offer an eager new player!.
LL.
]]]]]]]]]]]
Outfoxing The Foxes wrote:
> S
Outfoxing The Foxes
Ray - thanks for the edification.
- will be looking forward the the exciting grand release of the book
-
And also any advanced comments you can offer an eager new player!.
<----I posted the "Free" version of my book (a few key rules) about a
week ago. If you want to look those up, just check all of the messages
for the subject "The FREE Version Of Ray's Book" and you'll find it.
Advice for a new player? I only have a few basic, universal rules:
1. Do not make first contact. Your batting average should improve about
400 percent if you adhere to this rule. The best way to get women to
contact you first is to have a GIMMICK, or something that they find
appealing. One gimmick I use a lot on the internet is being a psychic.
Try signing on AOL sometimes as a psychic and put it in your profile. I
never fail to get IMed by dozens of women when I sign on just because
it's in my profile. Set up a reading room and cherry-pick if you want
even more opportunity. That's one example, though; if that gimmick
doesn't work for you, use another. The general rule is if you make first
contact, assume she's not interested and be conservative, but if she
makes first contact, assume she is and be aggressive.
2. Use the "one and done" rule. This means you forget a woman exists
after one "rejection." The rejection can be anything from a flat-out
rejection to failing to treat you like Superman. One-and-done gives you
a plan for dealing with rejection, and it also sets up the possibility of
the Returning Fox. Returning Foxes are almost guaranteed lays (if you
know what you are doing). I've reached the point where sometimes I will
ask a woman out knowing she will reject me, and also knowing that when I
withhold all interaction from her, that she will return down the road.
It helps if you are actually interesting, though, because otherwise she
might be relieved.
3. Learn to create and exploit windows of opportunity. This should be
self-explanatory. Everyone on this group knows how to do this, or
should.
4. If you are at a loss for how to ask a woman out, try saying "We
should hang (or go) out sometime." This is a good way to toss the ball
into her court. If you have a better way, use it. If she says anything
you don't like in response to it, use the one-and-done rule. Odds are
she'll come back to you after you go cold on her.
Thanks for the post. Maybe someday people will realize that about 98
percent of what you read about me out here is not true.
Mystery
Perhaps good for newbies only. Therefore, the real players see no value in
it?
techniques are untested
and suspect?
I.e.:
Put the book out - let the chips fall as they may. But stop
the constant hype/
damage control?
challenge?
HypnoDance
Q1 Do the players feel Ray's techniques vacillate too much? I.E.: He has no
Core set of workable beliefs? He's just winging it and
furiously gathering new material as his ideas are shot down?
his techniques do not come from the field. they are hypothetical and therefore
delusional. I rely on science rather than idealogical religious views
persoanlly.
<-------They are anything BUT delusional or "hypothetical." And your methods
fail a good 75 percent of the time so you aren't one to talk.
Q2 Are the players waiting for the book to make final judgment?
he certainly hasnt sold it to ME.
<-----Oh well.
Q3 Is the book, only a "newbie starter level only" approach. Perhaps good
for newbies only. Therefore, the real players see no value in it?
as a player, I seriously doubt his advice would be good for a newbie. you can
learn from a man who thinks his ideas will work or you can learn from someone
who gets out there all the time and makes it happen.
<-------What do you make happen, other than insult a few bimbos whose looks you
inflate...
Q4 Do the players feel, Ray is not a proven PU artist, and the techniques
are untested
and suspect?
Ive seen pix of him, he is old. his tactics go against evolution. going
aorund telling women how stupid they are for going for the best guys is
completely fruitcakes.
<-----You're the best guy? If so, why must you LIE to get women? And where'd
you see my pix? Oh wait, even if someone posts a pic that isn't me but claims
it's me, that's good enough here isn't it?
Q5 Do the players feel, Rays posts are "much ado about nothing? "
I.e.:
Put the book out - let the chips fall as they may. But stop
the constant hype/
damage control?
yep.
and THE BIGGIE....... ta da!!!!
Q6:: Has, or why has not, Ross Challenged Ray to the similar Eagan PU
challenge?
( or vice versa )
WOULDN'T THIS CHALLENGE PUT wagging tongues to rest?
I would like to challenge ROSS. Not because I think I can do better than him,
but you know, I feel like Im pretty damned good at what I do
so I figure, why not TRY right? It would be fun to meet Ross as he seems very
natural and cool in his lecture .ram files. And logical.
<-----Did you see Ross on PI?
Final: Q7 Any other insights for an impartial newbie?
filter Ray and be done with it. I've filtered FOUR aliases of his already!
<------Typical bird-dog behavior. More than once I've had a Fox temporarily
choose a guy like Mystery over me, then I use the one-and-done rule, and when
she comes back to me I tell her to get lost. She often winds up obeying me
completely for the privilege of my forgiveness of her mistakes.