GAME OVER: HarperCollins releases the LAYGUIDE
Ray Gordon
http://www.thebookstandard.com/bookstandard/news/publisher/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001262689
A Row Over Dueling 'Pick-Up' Guides Brews in Britain
October 07, 2005
By Max Chafkin
An oddball controversy is pitting heavyweight HarperCollins UK against a
small, independent British publisher that recently scored a big hit,
highlighting the way global media companies can create strange
bedfellows—and rivals.
Canongate Books says HarperCollins UK acted unethically when it released a
book with striking similarities—including its cover and subtitle—to music
writer and newly acclaimed player Neil Strauss's The Game: Penetrating the
Secret Society of Pickup Artists. Strauss's book, about the lessons he's
learned from experts as to getting laid, at a greater success rate, has sold
well in the U.S.—it is currently the second-highest seller on Amazon.com—and
has been perhaps even more popular in Britain, where it spent a week atop
Amazon's British bestseller chart and is currently the online retailer's
tenth-highest seller in the country that invented the lad mag.
Canongate made news in Britain this summer when it paid what was, for the
publisher, a record six-figure sum to acquire Strauss's guide to becoming a
better pick-up artist. Canongate rolled out an aggressive marketing campaign
that included seminars for loveless book-buyers on the art of chatting up,
as well as print ads in "lonely-hearts" columns. The way Strauss sees it,
the smaller publisher went the distance for him, making the larger
publisher's actions all the more aggravating. "They stretched their
resources to make this work," he says of Canongate, which had its first
major hit with the unexpected success of Yann Martel's 2002 Booker winner,
Life of Pi.
Just two weeks ahead of the release of The Game, Strauss and Canongate
director of sales and marketing Jenny Todd, were surprised to discover that
HarperCollins UK had released a two-year-old book with a new cover bearing a
remarkable stylistic resemblance to Canongate's Game and a title that seemed
intended to take advantage of Canongate's publicity efforts. The Layguide:
The Rules of the Game had, in fact, been released in the U.S. in 2004 under
the title The Layguide: How to Seduce Women More Beautiful Than You Ever
Dreamed, and with a new cover.
More galling to Canongate, says Todd, was the publication price of the
paperback Layguide: £8—which is £9 less than Strauss's book, released in
hardcover. "We were shocked at the lack of originality of HarperCollins,"
said Todd. "Some might call it entrepreneurial; however, this comes very
close to crossing the line between being entrepreneurial and actually
stealing somebody else's idea."
Strangely enough, Canongate purchased the U.K. rights for The Game from
ReganBooks—an imprint of HarperCollins Publishers, which, like HarperCollins
UK, is a subsidiary of News Corp. In fact, Strauss himself was initially
asked by HarperCollins to write The Layguide. He turned down the offer, but
acknowledges that it inspired him to write about his quest to learn from
master pick-up artists. (Strauss recently told The Book Standard about his
extensive research into the matter.) And Strauss's take on The Layguide, the
book he didn't write? He calls it "a water-down version of [advice] already
offered on the Internet."
Strauss says he is happy with his U.S. publisher. "Harper has always been
awesome," he says, adding that editor-publisher Judith Regan "is like a
patron saint." But he is quick to criticize the U.K. division for its
marketing of Layguide. "People are buying The Game and thinking [Layguide]
is something I advocate." Strauss says he will ask that Regan not sell his
books' rights to HarperCollins UK in future contracts. HarperCollins UK did
not respond to a request for comment.
Meanwhile, on Amazon's British site, the synopsis for Layguide, which was
written by Tony Clink ("one of the most successful pickup artists in the
world," according to the publisher) includes mention of Strauss's book, and
the two are even being offered as a "Perfect Partner" package.
Strauss says he could understand if HarperCollins UK had released its book
on the heels of his, "but to do it ahead of time with same cover is
unbelievable." Things could be worse, of course: The master's guide to
picking up keeps getting picked up itself, and as long as his book continues
to sell—The Game sits this week at the No. 11 spot on The Bookseller's
Hardback Nonfiction Chart—Strauss says he's not too concerned.
Ben Shiller
The flirting game that men and women play with each
other, or the game to part shy guy's from their money?
HeeroYuy
"Ray Gordon" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote in message
news:wk62f.9465$wf6.2...@twister.nyc.rr.com...
> SOURCE:
> http://www.thebookstandard.com/bookstandard/news/publisher/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001262689
>
<Copyright infringement snipped>
Gordon couldn't be successful at "The Game" bringing an end to seduction, so
now he's predicting the "Layguide" will. Gordon has the worst track record
in the universe for making a prediction, so this one should be taken with a
very small half-grain of salt. Too bad he doesn't have sense enough to quit
when he's 10 miles behind.
Odious
> http://www.thebookstandard.com/bookstandard/news/publisher/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001262689
>
> A Row Over Dueling 'Pick-Up' Guides Brews in Britain
> October 07, 2005
> By Max Chafkin
>
Ray, I'm curious....
Why is it that when you published your crappy books consisting of repackage
and rehashed versions of these same concepts and methods, you claimed over
and over that they were eternal and would always work so well that you'd
never need updates or anything like that.
Yet when The Game and The Layguide get published by real publishers, leaving
you looking like a fool as always, suddenly the story changes and now you
claim publication will render the concepts and method totally ineffective?
HeeroYuy
"Odious" <Odi...@cox.net.nospam> wrote in message
news:cYf2f.26324$GO4.11714@lakeread04...
Jealousy, pure and simple.
Ray Gordon
insults.
Johannes Seppi
> Odiot is pretty detached if he expects civil answers from someone he
> insults.
>
But, Ray, it is obvious that you cannot answer his question, and
therefore have to resort to playing games.
But even though everybody sees through your ruse, not even those games
are over...
Odious
> Odiot is pretty detached if he expects civil answers from someone he
> insults.
>
>
>
This is what happens when someone asks ray a question about the
inconsistencies in his claims.
He can't answer.
Thrasher Remailer
"Ray Gordon" <r...@cybersheet.com> wrote:
>
> Odiot is pretty detached if he expects civil answers from someone he
> insults.
Gordon Roy Parker is being disingenuous again.
In an attempt to eliminate disruption caused by this individual in the
alt.seduction.fast newsgroup, along with spam and misinformation, alt.seduction.fast
now also has a website and discussion forums in which this individual is prevented
from posting. The website forums have proven extremely popular and successful since
off-topic material and bad behavior is prevented there. The forums are completely
FREE to read and post to. See the footer in the message for more information.
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
New visitors to alt.seduction.fast are welcomed and directed to the main website
http://www.fastseduction.com
Most seduction discussion has been relocated to the forums on this website, which
can be accessed through your news reader just like this newsgroup, or through a
web interface. The forums were created as an alternative to the large amount of
spamming, misinformation, and offensive behavior by a high-volume poster known to
unfotunately suffer disabling mental illness, in the regular alt.seduction.fast
newsgroup.
Anyone can read forum articles but registration is required (which can be done
through an anonymous email account) in order to post articles. This effectively
prevents disruptive individuals from posting and results in a MUCH more useful and
productive forum.
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Ray Gordon
me (preponderance of the evidence says so), they may very well be breaking
state RICO laws which prohibit such tactics.
Consequently, I'll be reporting all such postings to the relevant attorneys
general.
Johannes Seppi
Ray Gordon
It's harassment based on perceived disability (and using it to generate
revenue for a business). Several state RICO laws prohibit this type of
conduct.
Johannes Seppi
harassment.
The exchange was:
::Ray::
>Odiot is pretty detached if he expects civil answers from someone he
> insults.
::Trasher Remailer::
Gordon Roy Parker is being disingenuous again.
So here we have an insult by you, followed by a statement of opinion. If
you dish it out, don't vry when it comes back to you.
Ray Gordon
>>
>>
>> It's harassment based on perceived disability (and using it to generate
>> revenue for a business). Several state RICO laws prohibit this type of
>> conduct.
>>
> Well, just claiming "it is harassment" is not *showing* how it is
> harassment.
>
> The exchange was:
Not as you portray it.
You don't see *other* businesses marketing themselves anything close to what
we've seen here for a while now.
There's a reason for that.
Johannes Seppi
=======================
>>
>> Odiot is pretty detached if he expects civil answers from someone he
>> insults.
Gordon Roy Parker is being disingenuous again.
In an attempt to eliminate disruption caused by this individual in the
=======================
Seems the exchange was exactly as I portrayed it.
Care to point out the harassment now?
Ray Gordon
>> what we've seen here for a while now.
>>
>> There's a reason for that.
>>
> OK, then I'll copy the post you were answering to:
Now YOU are defaming me.
Johannes Seppi
defaming you? What world do you live in?
As I see it, and I know you only form your own posts, you certainly like
to stir the pot, but when anybody dares to oppose you, you suddenly
become the poor, innocent victim.
That's pathetic, really.
Ray Gordon
>>
>>
>> Now YOU are defaming me.
>>
> YOU accused me of distorting facts, I posted proof,
You used that as an excuse to defame me.
Johannes Seppi
claimed I was distorting facts?
If calling you on your own bullshit is defamation, then perhaps it would
be wise not to spread the bullshit before. Calling a lie a lie is no
defamation in my book.
John Michaels
enforcement agencies you have pestered. Response will be the same. The
good news is that they can use the laugh.
Ray Gordon
>>
> How did I defame you, by showing you were lying about me when you claimed
> I was distorting facts?
I wasn't lying. Odiot was not part of the exchange.
Like I said, you used it as an excuse to republish defamation.
> If calling you on your own bullshit is defamation, then perhaps it would
> be wise not to spread the bullshit before.
I didn't. YOU did.
>Calling a lie a lie is no defamation in my book.
Republishing defamation, however, is.
Ray Gordon
> enforcement agencies you have pestered. Response will be the same. The
> good news is that they can use the laugh.
John seems to have a delusion that he speaks for the government now.
Johannes Seppi
>>>You used that as an excuse to defame me.
>>>
>>
>>How did I defame you, by showing you were lying about me when you claimed
>>I was distorting facts?
>
>
> I wasn't lying. Odiot was not part of the exchange.
> Like I said, you used it as an excuse to republish defamation.
>
claimed was harassment and this posting contains two sentences of
content, one by Odious and one by Trasher Remailer.
And, if you are going to accuse me of defamation, then *show* where the
defamation is.
>
>
>>If calling you on your own bullshit is defamation, then perhaps it would
>>be wise not to spread the bullshit before.
>
>
> I didn't. YOU did.
>
No, you accused me of the exchange not being like I portrayed it, I
posted the original showing that the exchange was exactly as I portrayed
it, thereby proving you were lying.
>
>>Calling a lie a lie is no defamation in my book.
>
>
> Republishing defamation, however, is.
>
When you are accusing me of distorting facts, I have every right to show
I am not.
Ray Gordon
>>>I was distorting facts?
>>
>>
>> I wasn't lying. Odiot was not part of the exchange.
>> Like I said, you used it as an excuse to republish defamation.
>>
> And that is a lie again. I have been asking you about a posting you
> claimed was harassment and this posting contains two sentences of content,
> one by Odious and one by Trasher Remailer.
> And, if you are going to accuse me of defamation, then *show* where the
> defamation is.
If you could read the thread, you'd see who I was responding to. You used
this as an excuse to defame me.
Also, I will not respond to any other discussions by you from now on, due to
my zero-tolerance policy for flamers. Anyone who wants to ask me questions
from here on out is going to have to be respectful towards me 100 percent of
the time. I will occasionally point out that I'm not responding to you, and
why.
Johannes Seppi
possible. I probably should have known better, but then I'm an optimist.
Ray Gordon
> Well, then excuse me for thinking that a civilized exchange with you was
> possible.
It was, until you republished the defamation. Remove it from the archive if
you want to erase the damage you caused.
Otherwise, my policy stands.
This is my last reply on this matter.
Johannes Seppi
Bullet
Perhaps the rest of us should operate a zero-tolerance policy towards Ray Gordon's argumentative and stupid posts and simply never read any of his posts!
Johannes Seppi
>
> Perhaps the rest of us should operate a zero-tolerance policy towards
> Ray Gordon's argumentative and stupid posts and simply never read any of
> his posts!
>
write what you want and flame as much as you like, and then, when you
can no longer hold your place in the discussion you cry "zero tolerance"
and declare moral victory.
Odious
Lets see... what has gordo said about harassment on usenet....
From: sotwa...@mindspring.com (Ray Gordon)
Subject: Re: Ray Gordon
Date: 1997/12/27
Message-ID: <34a50796...@news.mindspring.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics
" If you claim IM harassment, you will
be asked why you did not simply resort to privacy preferences; E-mail
harassment? Well, e-mail can be doctored as well. The technology as
it exists today allows anyone to put any kind of words in anyone
else's mouth. What's left are public message boards and USENET, which
are archived. Check my posts here and you will find very little in
the way of harassment; if you don't like what I write, don't read it."
EditorialStaff
Homo Deflectus writes:
>
> Since someone is promoting a website by combining it with
> harassment against me (preponderance of the evidence says so),
> they may very well be breaking state RICO laws which prohibit
> such tactics.
<snicker>
As soon as you can get a JUDGE to agree with you, you will
be good to go!
You go right on ahead and report that.
"Wahhhh!
Someone is saying bad things about me! Don't look at MY
posting history, just look at what they are saying about
me!
Wahhhh!"
> Consequently, I'll be reporting all such postings to the relevant
> attorneys general.
Let us all know how that goes over, little buddy... Willya?
--
The Editorial Staff
-----
This post is an expression of our Constitutionally protected
right to Freedom of Speech.
Freedom of Speech is WORTHLESS without Social Responsibility.
A quote from Gordon Roy Parker, AKA "Ray Gordon":
"(For a dissenting opinion on my character, please visit
the following website: http://members.tripod.com/~rayfaq.html)*
This site contains many lies about me, but as a defender of
free speech I fully support its right to exist."
-Message-ID: <6ertau$76b$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
*The original RayFAQ was removed from the internet as a
result of dozens of complaints from Gordon Roy Parker.
Odious
LOL! Yeah catch ray in his own lies, and suddenly he cries harassment.
Odious
And what business was being marketed by pointing out that your current
claims regarding the exposure of methods rendering those methods
ineffective... and your previous claims about the rehashed versions of the
same methods in your own books being effective indefinitely despite
publication?
Odious
Actually he was speaking OF the government, not for them.
Aardvark
> > SOURCE:
> > http://www.thebookstandard.com/bookstandard/news/publisher/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001262689
> >
>
> <Copyright infringement snipped>
>
> Gordon couldn't be successful at "The Game" bringing an end to seduction, so
> now he's predicting the "Layguide" will. Gordon has the worst track record
> in the universe for making a prediction, so this one should be taken with a
> very small half-grain of salt. Too bad he doesn't have sense enough to quit
> when he's 10 miles behind.
one thing i can count on is that the bungling baron of barratry will
find a way to out-stupid his own stupidity.
his latest personal fiasco includes the fact that the stench of his
"the game" rants, is still reeking from his scabby face being rubbed in
his impotent idiocy. he *still* feels the need to spew on about
"layguide" as if that will spell out some new universal cockblock that
will spell out the doom of seduction.
i'm still puzzled as to just exactly how someone so vastly weighed down
with stupidity can still manage to use a computer.
aardvark
jjt.j
>Now YOU are defaming me.
** You admitted (see below) you ".wished."
** a child would die, JUST to get revenge on
** her mother for her crime of ".loving you."
SO, the question is, Mr. Gordon Roy Parker:
".how old was Michelle's daughter Cierra
when you "wished" she would die, and if
your "wish" could come true, what would
you "wish" to happen to her.. ?????? ."
...Usenet records seem to note her age at 6 or 7...
..again..PLEASE..for the record... Tell us all..
Does this refresh your memory, Mr. Parker..?
>>Path: news.alt.net!anon.lcs.mit.edu!nym.alias.net!mail2news
>>Cc: cave...@nni.com
>>Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 07:58:08 -0400
>>Subject: Ray Takes FULL RESPONSIBLITY For The Michelle Mistake
>>Message-ID: <20000628.075839.-285523.10.The...@juno.com>
>>X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11
>>X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 2-3,6-9,17-18,20-21,29-30,40-41,48-49,61-62,71-72,84-85,94-95,105-106,
>>115-116,126-127,133-134,154-155,164-165,178-179,187-188,196-199,201-202,206-207,212-213,
>>215-216,219-220,222-226,228-231,237-238,241-246,249-250,257-258,264-265,274-275,289-290,293-300
>>X-Juno-Att: 0
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>From: The Seduction Library <the______seductio...@juno.com>
>>Mail-To-News-Contact: postm...@nym.alias.net
>>Organization: mail...@nym.alias.net
>>Newsgroups: alt.romance
>>Lines: 307
>>Xref: news alt.romance:246369
>>WARNING: If Oedipus, Krusty or Tusky respond to this message in any way,
>>I will return to ASF immediately. If they want me off that newsgroup
>>they can stay the hell out of my threads.
>>Read up. I post this not for myself, because I don't care what people
>>think of me. I post this for my METHOD, because it's being destroyed by
>>attacks on its creator.
>>I am going to clear the record on a few things here:
>>1. I DID wish death on Michelle's daughter Cierra. I did so in an
>>attempt to snap her back to reality after she had used others' defamation
>>of me as leverage to get me to want her. Why did I "hurt" her? I DID
>>NOT TALK TO HER. That's correct: my crime with Michelle was not falling
>>back in love with her after she had fallen in love with me for four
>>months, IMing me constantly, E-mailing me constantly, BEGGING me to love
>>her the way I "loved" "Dominique" (these two are in quotes because I
>>neither loved her nor necessarily knew her).
>>2. Wishing death on someone is not a crime. The words were spoken in
>>anger, after MONTHS of provocation
Main Entry: mo·lest
Pronunciation: m&-'lest
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French molester, from
Latin molestare, from molestus burdensome, annoying; akin to
Latin moles mass
1 : to annoy, disturb, or persecute especially with hostile
intent or injurious effect
2 : to make annoying sexual advances to; especially : to
force physical and usually sexual contact on
- mo·les·ta·tion /"mO-"les-'tA-sh&n, "mä-, -l&s-/ noun
- mo·lest·er /m&-'les-t&r/ noun
jjt.j
>Also, I will not respond to any other discussions by you from now on, due to
>my zero-tolerance policy for flamers. Anyone who wants to ask me questions
>from here on out is going to have to be respectful towards me 100 percent of
>the time. I will occasionally point out that I'm not responding to you, and
>why.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
JJT
(to the tune of "Less then Zero, by Elvis C < Dallas Version > )
'Hellen' sucks da kennel off, in succession,
While Ray Gordon threatens minors in mommie's abusive heaven..
Dreams his widdle dreams as 'hellen' looks up from giving head.
Wet's his Under-Roos, grp-ie re-writes his spew again
Just to teach him he's a lie, and that he's loony in the head..
---
Chorus:
He brags about his Herpes.
So the ladies don't reflect,
truth is, his dollies don't respect him,
U'all sure his mommie don't know...
You'd think that grp-ie would learn, but
His whole life is one big fat zero.
Hey, ray...
Hey, oo Ray-ey.
---
Calling "cunts" n "whores", calling anyone at the scene,
If you were in the Twin Towers, your death grp-ie believes
will pay for all his failures, every dollar he was denied.
'Hellen' wipes her mouth off & she swallows it with pride..
She moans, "47 poodles, earns us $24.95! ." NO TIP !
---
He brags about his Herpes.
So the ladies don't reflect,
truth is, his dollies don't respect him,
U'all sure his mommie don't know...
You'd think that grp-ie would learn, but
His whole life is one big fat zero.
Hey, ray...
Hey, oo Ray-ey.
---
Under-Roos still steaming, grp-ie's 'fetal' on the floor.
Mommie Parker thought her b/f beat grp-ie's ass into a ball .
Penny looks into the mirror, 'Hellen' turns and looks away.
The dollies just don't give a shit as long as they get paid...
'Hellen' spits on grp-ie, as his fantasy fades away..
---
He brags about his Herpes.
So the ladies don't reflect,
truth is, his dollies don't respect him,
U'all sure his mommie don't know...
You'd think that grp-ie would learn, but
His whole life is one big fat zero.
Hey, ray...
Hey, oo Ray-ey.
---
HeeroYuy
"Aardvark" <aardvar...@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:1128980150....@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Gordon kinda reminds me of those people who call tech support because their
computers won't turn on in a blackout.
HeeroYuy
> Odiot is pretty detached if he expects civil answers from someone he
> insults.
Says the one attempting to insult someone else. Gordon should check his
hypocrisy at the send button before saying something that stupid.
HeeroYuy
Gordon once used this tactic on me. As I am still here, he obviously proved
impotent in trying to intimidate me. The FBI knows all about that exchange,
too.
Johannes Seppi
him. First he snips and distorts my posts, and then, when he has painted
himself in a corner, he cries defamation.
Well, if he doesn't want to talk to me any more, I sure will be able to
live with that.
Johannes
Thrasher Remailer
Further to what HeeroYuy said, this is a tactic that our resident netloon has
used previously. When certain individuals have proven particularly effective
and consistent in pointing out his unjustified claims and the flaws in his
arguments, he eventually "makes up a reason" to stop conversing with them. He
has done the same in alt.hypnosis with a particularly bright fellow who posts
as DrEvilHypnosis.
It's a double edged sword in that his mental illness desperately requires
that he be included in conversation with others or he'll experience
significant anxiety but certain individuals who cogently express the
errors of his thinking also cause him to experience significant anxiety.
Not engaging with these individuals is a coping strategy designed to
minimize anxiety.
The reasons that he gave to not reply to you are laughable. He states a
zero-tolerance policy for flamers while he is busy flaming someone else,
in repeated posts, in another thread.
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
New visitors to alt.seduction.fast are welcomed and directed to the main website
http://www.fastseduction.com
Most seduction discussion has been relocated to the forums on this website, which
can be accessed through your news reader just like this newsgroup, or through a
web interface. The forums were created as an alternative to the large amount of
spamming, misinformation, and offensive behavior by a high-volume poster known to
unfotunately suffer disabling mental illness, in the regular alt.seduction.fast
newsgroup.
Anyone can read forum articles but registration is required (which can be done
through an anonymous email account) in order to post articles. This effectively
prevents disruptive individuals from posting and results in a MUCH more useful and
productive forum.
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +