Got the chance last night to spend about an hour with your book. Its a great book for guys starting out, I can see why you have a "cult " following over at ASF. My question is this:
I'm not asking details, but merely.....Are you making a living off the sale of your book?
SluttyFox
Oh....I never once saw anything in the book about FIGHTING.
> Got the chance last night to spend about an hour with your book. Its a > great book for guys starting out, I can see why you have a "cult " > following over at ASF.
>> Got the chance last night to spend about an hour with your book. Its a >> great book for guys starting out, I can see why you have a "cult " >> following over at ASF.
> THIS is ASF.
Excuse me....I meant over at: The place with the BEST FREE seduction advice.
Ray Gordon wrote: >>Got the chance last night to spend about an hour with your book. Its a >>great book for guys starting out, I can see why you have a "cult " >>following over at ASF.
> THIS is ASF.
and how utterly convenient of you, fathead, to snip the part of the text about "no fighting in any of it" where he shows you to be a snivelling, scumbag of a liar.
> Got the chance last night to spend about an hour with your book. Its a great > book for guys starting out, I can see why you have a "cult " following over > at ASF. > My question is this:
> I'm not asking details, but merely.....Are you making a living off the sale > of your book?
Nah I am in this for spite not greed. I pretty much reinvest every bit I make in to advertising.
I really can't stand the outdated bullshit a lot of these guys advocate, and even more so dislike several of their attitudes toward the community and the people in it, and want to see their methods down go down the toilet.
People who don't post, rehash other peoples shit and sell it, wont come in the chatroom, wont answer questions directed their way etc, need competition from people who really CARE if other guys get laid.
Might usually makes right, and in this game advertising dollars makes might.
In this case it seems I have become a force to reckon with anyway because I actually give a shit if guys get laid or not and my methods are based on real psychology.
I support myself with a construction company I run/own though otherwise, nothing big but it gets me by.
My goal when it came to money was always to "not lose" (aka work 40 hours a week for 50 years), rather than to "win" aka be rich. I always just didn't wanna ever have to get up and work again, the construction set me up to not have to.
This online venture is the first time I have ever tried to make a lot of money, maybe not healthy, but for spite, rather than greed, I admit it.
>> Got the chance last night to spend about an hour with your book. Its a >> great >> book for guys starting out, I can see why you have a "cult " following >> over >> at ASF. >> My question is this:
>> I'm not asking details, but merely.....Are you making a living off the >> sale >> of your book?
> Nah I am in this for spite not greed. I pretty much reinvest every bit > I make in to advertising.
Got specifics?
> I really can't stand the outdated bullshit a lot of these guys > advocate, and even more so dislike several of their attitudes toward > the community and the people in it, and want to see their methods down > go down the toilet.
Interesting sentiment.
> People who don't post, rehash other peoples shit and sell it, wont > come in the chatroom,
Moderated chats are lame.
>wont answer questions directed their way etc, > need competition from people who really CARE if other guys get laid.
> Might usually makes right, and in this game advertising dollars makes > might.
So we can conclude from that that sales revenue would be a function of advertising expenditures.
> In this case it seems I have become a force to reckon with anyway > because I actually give a shit if guys get laid or not and my methods > are based on real psychology.
Your degrees in psychology again?
> I support myself with a construction company I run/own though > otherwise, nothing big but it gets me by.
Another nonspecific answer. So far we have the book doing much better than the bottom line.
> My goal when it came to money was always to "not lose" (aka work 40 > hours a week for 50 years), rather than to "win" aka be rich. I always > just didn't wanna ever have to get up and work again, the construction > set me up to not have to.
Chicks generally like guys who can make a living without working.
> This online venture is the first time I have ever tried to make a lot > of money, maybe not healthy, but for spite, rather than greed, I admit > it.
> >> Got the chance last night to spend about an hour with your book. Its a > >> great > >> book for guys starting out, I can see why you have a "cult " following > >> over > >> at ASF. > >> My question is this:
> >> I'm not asking details, but merely.....Are you making a living off the > >> sale > >> of your book?
> > Nah I am in this for spite not greed. I pretty much reinvest every bit > > I make in to advertising.
> Got specifics?
What about you? where are yours?
> > I really can't stand the outdated bullshit a lot of these guys > > advocate, and even more so dislike several of their attitudes toward > > the community and the people in it, and want to see their methods down > > go down the toilet.
> Interesting sentiment.
Sounds like it was written for you gordon.
> > People who don't post, rehash other peoples shit and sell it, wont > > come in the chatroom,
> >wont answer questions directed their way etc, > > need competition from people who really CARE if other guys get laid.
> > Might usually makes right, and in this game advertising dollars makes > > might.
> So we can conclude from that that sales revenue would be a function of > advertising expenditures.
> > In this case it seems I have become a force to reckon with anyway > > because I actually give a shit if guys get laid or not and my methods > > are based on real psychology.
> Your degrees in psychology again?
And yours?
> > I support myself with a construction company I run/own though > > otherwise, nothing big but it gets me by.
> Another nonspecific answer. So far we have the book doing much better than > the bottom line.
How well is your book doing? Sold one yet?
> > My goal when it came to money was always to "not lose" (aka work 40 > > hours a week for 50 years), rather than to "win" aka be rich. I always > > just didn't wanna ever have to get up and work again, the construction > > set me up to not have to.
> Chicks generally like guys who can make a living without working.
But you don't work, so you are saying you get no action?
> > This online venture is the first time I have ever tried to make a lot > > of money, maybe not healthy, but for spite, rather than greed, I admit > > it.
> How convenient a motive.
He could do worse, like sitting on usenet making legal threats.
>>Got the chance last night to spend about an hour with your book. Its a great >>book for guys starting out, I can see why you have a "cult " following over >>at ASF. >>My question is this:
>>I'm not asking details, but merely.....Are you making a living off the sale >>of your book?
> Nah I am in this for spite not greed. I pretty much reinvest every bit > I make in to advertising.
> I really can't stand the outdated bullshit a lot of these guys > advocate, and even more so dislike several of their attitudes toward > the community and the people in it, and want to see their methods down > go down the toilet.
> People who don't post, rehash other peoples shit and sell it, wont > come in the chatroom, wont answer questions directed their way etc, > need competition from people who really CARE if other guys get laid.
> Might usually makes right, and in this game advertising dollars makes > might.
i don't care how many friends, enemies, or whatever i get from posting this.
gun, if you are not what flat-out qualifies as an alpha male, then every man on earth is a pussy. it took guts to post what you believe & i agree with it although my style is not to do such things when it comes to money, by spite. the important thing is that you said what you meant.
in these days of "drive-by" trollings on usenet it's very uplifting to hear someone who is a straight shooter. of course this intimidates those who can't compete and it should. those who attempt to take others on a magic carpet ride away from getting what we want from women need to be exposed as the frauds that they are and i also wish to compliment you on your work there as well.
we know that you care if guys get laid or you'd not spend time here in the newsgroup like you do. those who don't care have made themselves way too obvious as well.
i know that you don't do what you to to be liked so please feel free to consider my admiration for you and what you do, as a side benefit of your success. i will always respect you and your work and consider you as our brother.
those who have never tried to learn anything from you cannot convince me that they ever had any true genius.
> In this case it seems I have become a force to reckon with anyway > because I actually give a shit if guys get laid or not and my methods > are based on real psychology.
> I support myself with a construction company I run/own though > otherwise, nothing big but it gets me by.
> My goal when it came to money was always to "not lose" (aka work 40 > hours a week for 50 years), rather than to "win" aka be rich. I always > just didn't wanna ever have to get up and work again, the construction > set me up to not have to.
> This online venture is the first time I have ever tried to make a lot > of money, maybe not healthy, but for spite, rather than greed, I admit > it.
obviously in places you don't have a clue about Ray. Just because you've never seen it dosen't mean it dosen't exist.
Why should Gunwitch be giving you advice on how to run your business anyway? He's had more success than you have, and I hope he dosen't let you ride his coattails.
>obviously in places you don't have a clue about Ray. Just because >you've never seen it dosen't mean it dosen't exist. >Why should <snip> be giving you advice on how to run your business >anyway? He's had more success than you have, and I hope he dosen't let >you ride his coattails.
wtf?
Someone asked him if he was making a living off the sale of his book, since he's claimed it's selling well. In response, he says he's spending his money on advertising, so no. I ask where all this advertising is, and some cockroach who has nothing to do with the conversation claims that he's more successful (if he's spending all of his profits on advertising, is that really the case?).
I do know that he has an affiliate program that doesn't cost him anything except a percentage of gross revenue, nor does he pay for the chatroom that is his main marketing venue, and I suspect he doesn't pay to have his free stuff hosted on another site. That raises a simple question: where is all this paid advertising?
Since income affects a man's results with women, the topic is fair game to see what a seduction guru earns a year, if for nothing other than factoring out the income from his results by comparing him to his socioeconomic peers.
>Since income affects a man's results with women, the topic is fair game >to see what a seduction guru earns a year, if for nothing other than >factoring out the income from his results by comparing him to his >socioeconomic peers.
..and your income is, what did U say..10k$ a year..?
>>Subject: Re: May Lissa's Mom DIE PAINFULLY ANDROT IN HELL**** >>x-no-archive: yes >>Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:13:02 -0600 >>From: ray...@hotmail.com >>Organization: Deja News - The Leader in Internet Discussion >>Newsgroups: alt.sports.gymnastics >> x-no-archive: yes >> ****Disclaimer: I was discriminated against on the basis of >>gender today and told point-blank that this was the reason. Having been >>taunted by the WHOREDENS and by Lissa over this, I consider it only fair >>to return similar sentiments. When I get a full apology from Lissa, and >>from Dave, and his website and RayFAQ go down, I will CONSIDER changing >>my attitude. >> Ray, first of all STOP CURSING, KIDS READ THIS TOO!! Dave, lol! >>HA HAHA! dang! oh shit! maaaaaan...! lol! hmmmaaaa! Ray's gonna sue you! >>looool!!!! [laughing] shit.... hire me as your lawyer. he he ha ha ha... >>loooll >> <----Stop Cursing? FUCK YOU. FUCK GYMNAST WHORES TOO. They >>know DAMN well what goes on and what harmed me and they LAUGH at it. >>May they all do a GOMEZ on vault and have the ambulance do a GRIVICH on >>the way to the hospital if they are going to laugh at my career road >>blocks, sexual road blocks that they CLAIM to disapprove of...except >>when they need a job, so then it's okay to show a little ass, as long as >>the boss doesn't try to touch that ass. FUCK THEM. They're moral >>GARBAGE! They know it too; that's why they can't stand hearing it; if >>it weren't true they wouldn't care. They're good for ONE THING and ONE >>THING only, and they know that too. If they want me to be nice to them, >>let them undo a few years of damage and apologize for THEIR attitudes. >>They bring this shit on themselves with their arrogance. Spoiled BRATS. >> You think my suing Dave and Dominique is a joke? Keep laughing. >>Please. I'd love it if you did. You want to be Dave's lawyer? Go right >>ahead. You punks think this is playtime; you're in for an awfully rude >>shock. I gave fair warning. Dave(and Dominique through Dave) said "Go >>for it." I will. I'll go for every last ounce of gold that resides in >>both their scumbag pockets. >> See, I was being a NICE GUY about this before. I decided not to >>be NICE anymore. I get really FUCKING PISSED OFFwhen people mock my >>pain, enough to where I start focusing my energy on THEIR pain. Lissa's >>pain. The pain of watching her mother die the same death my secretarial >>career died. Yes, that death. I know what it's like to watch something >>you love die. Watching my father die right in front of my eyes at age >>12 wasn't as painful as watching women get sexually harassed by their >>bosses, but that was nothing compared to the pain of seeing women mock >>the issue, like it were okay, like they couldn't have the courage to do >>the right thing. >> Lissa, watch your mom fade away and think of mycareer, and then >>think of the fact that I can revive my career. Noone will be able to >>revive your mom. No one. She's DYING, and she's DYING slowly. Does she >>even remember your name anymore? I don't think so.....you think Dave's >>such a nice guy? I don't. Hedoes that page for you, Missy, Dominique, >>and all those wonderful girls who worship him. You think he's going to >>get away with it? He's not. If you want to see God's punishment for your >>treatment of me, watch it in your mom. >> My last spell went to Jaycie's knees. She still competing? >>Nope. The next one goes to Lissa's mom. Note her condition today and >>see how she progresses from here. Don't mess with a psychic. After >>this one is done I'll start REALLY wishing for some Gomez action on the >>vault, and I'll start naming names and focusing ALL of my psychic energy >>on it.
Since income affects a man's results with women, the topic is fair game
to see what a seduction guru earns a year, if for nothing other than factoring out the income from his results by comparing him to his socioeconomic peers.
First of all Ray, income dosen't play MUCH in a man's results with women if he's bringing other things to the table, like a personality and an ability to show some compatibility with said woman.
And second of all, Gunwitch's income isn't ANYONE's business, how he makes it, or how he spends it. If he chooses to share the information, that's one thing, but there isn't a requirement.
Besides, in this case, if the system didn't work, thene there wouldn't be a market. Men may be dumb, but I doubt they are dumb enough to spend money on something, besides cars, that dosen't work for them.
Alex neglects that my writing has turned a profit over the years, and that on the net, sales are more a function of lining up affiliates and paying for clicks on search engines. As I've said many times, I'm a writer first and a publisher second. I can always shift that focus should I need to.
Something else which seems to be flying over Alex's head is that in computers, it pays to be early rather than late. I barely used computers until I was 26, so I got a very late start. I wanted to be early with whatever I did, and internet publishing looked like the best bet for the future. In fact, it still does.
It's very easy for Alex to pass judgment on people without offering his own details up for comparison. I could use anonymous names here and do the same very easily with many. I could also point to several sites in this community where many paid gurus get trashed routinely, despite their apparent popularity here and in a few other places.
It's not like Alex devotes much of his posting time to anyone but me, however. To that extent, he is extremely myopic.
>>Since income affects a man's results with women, >>the topic is fair game to see what a seduction guru earns >>a year, if for nothing other than factoring out the income >>from his results by comparing him to his socioeconomic peers >First of all Ray, income dosen't play MUCH in a man's results with >women if he's bringing other things to the table, like a personality >and an ability to show some compatibility with said woman.
IF? The world doesn't run on IF. Personality is also subjective, and your basic argument is flawed because it presumes that the men women choose to fuck are somehow "better" than the ones they do not. This is rarely the case. Then again, your idea of a man you liked speaks for itself. Not like you could do much better, I suppose. For example, if a woman is a coke whore, a guy will have a better "personality" to her if he hooks her up with drugs instead of giving her an intervention. Applied to seduction, men who enable a woman's wrong choices in men get laid; those who tell the women what they are doing wrong often do not, unless they know *when* to work that angle (there are windows where he can).
That aside, money creates SURE THINGS with women. Being a "seduction guru" almost creates it too, so it's also relevant to ask the gurus if they use the fact that they are gurus in their pickups (hot women love to discuss all this theory and sound a lot like chessmasters analyzing chess when they do). For each level of income, we can measure the type of sure thing it creates, and anything equal or inferior to that cannot be attributed to "game."
>And second of all, Gunwitch's income isn't ANYONE's business, how he >makes it, or how he spends it. If he chooses to share the information, >that's one thing, but there isn't a requirement.
Of course it's not a requirement. It is, however, relevant to evaluating his level of "game," just as it is for anyone. I can fuck hotties while not even living alone, in my thirties, overweight, with an STD, and earning substantially less than the average American income. Anytime I come into money I know exactly how I can convert it into sex without even spending it, and if I want to spend it to get laid, I could be fucking beauty queens.
>Besides, in this case, if the system didn't work, thene there wouldn't >be a market.
Wrong: SALES PITCH is what determines income, especially when one spends a lot of money on advertising. By the time the results can be measured, the book is usually bought. This applies to any system whether or not it works. "He's Just Not That Into You" sold millions of copies simply because the author was on Oprah and had worked on Sex And The City. In the past, Oprah has had on other authors who gave conflicting advice to this and their stuff sold too. I believe Gunwitch also said that marketing is the key on the internet, at least in today's market (tomorrow's will be a little different).
>Men may be dumb, but I doubt they are dumb enough to spend >money on something, besides cars, that dosen't work for them.
So you're saying that if a method doesn't work for a man, he won't buy the method? How does he use the method then if he doesn't buy it first?
..wait...you said ya mommie made the 'baseball bat' statement threatening abuse against children. Alot like when she ignored your pleas for help, as her BF of the 'moment' beat u silly. Maybe she wished HE had a baseball bat to use on you. Maybe she cheered.
U speaking of 'IF' is like Teddy 'http://www.fatboy.cc/' Kennedy speaking of morals, or swimming lessons..or booze.. or honor..
But, hey let's all have a sing-song :
"goll-ei, Fuz,..U gonna go there! ?" Fuz 'da Bun: "..I'm gonna spill me some beans ! : "
ROUND 'em UP !!
Well they're ASF shilling.. Big Bad RICO villains And we scam everyone, ya know (that sounds like us ? )
We sing about seduction And we sing about gurlz as we put on a little show (yeah, ca-ching! Kiss me, hun..)
We have all kind-a girls who live out all kind-a thrills But the 1 thrill we WANNA known Is the thrill of that true fame When you get your real name On the docket with Gordon Roy
Gordon Roy "..fucking court.." gonna call out my name.. Parker-boy ! "..fucking judge.." gonna make him explain.. ROY ! Nothing ever gonna be the same.. On the docket with Gordon Roy
He got a scary mommie named Baseball Bat Penny.. who pays all his ways and means..hahahaha He got his own collection of dollies Re-Writing his "ray-world" dreams...
Now it's all a crime, cause he's so blind:.., But U gotta say it's pretty lame.. unLike the thrill of the true fame When you get your real name On the docket with Gordon Roy
Gordon Roy He's gonna throw all his Meds away.... Parker-boy ! Post in Drag all night and day.... ROY ! But he'll have to fully explain .. On the docket with Gordon Roy
mASF: hey, i know all about his failures..!!! <insert teenage guitar solo HERE !> (spoken) JJT: "..hey, I'm John Doe #17 !!!" THE WORLD:: Counter sue his ass, Google !!!..
He dreams of underaged gymnasts "..sexual performers.." & that fuels up his wet dreams: "..if it were legal." He's got a made up a hooker named, um, 'hellen'.. Earning money to get him laid... ha ha ha ha ha
He gets all the jobs $10k n failures provide., Still he whines cause he's all alone.. Yet we keep gettin' richer, ..still he can't get our signature On the docket with Gordon Roy
Gordon Roy He'll make all the "cunts" and "whores" pay... Parker-boy ! "..if it were legal.." children, he would slay !.. Gordon ROY ! I just wonder what the Judge will say.... On the docket with Gordon Roy
Talking: I don't know why we ain't in no courtroom, baby! He's an "..inexcusable failure.." at it, ya know..! I ain't kiddin' you man, we'd make a great defendant. I mean, I can see it right now--we be up front, Oh, we be laughing so hard......beautiful!
> Alex neglects that my writing has turned a profit over the years,
Yet not enough of one that you didn't have to beg the PA courts for money to pay fees.
>and > that on the net, sales are more a function of lining up affiliates and > paying for clicks on search engines.
LOL! Again we see ray trying to rationalize his failure.
The most important function of sales on the net... having a product that doesn't suck.
> As I've said many times, I'm a > writer first and a publisher second.
But above all, you're a failure.
> I can always shift that focus > should I need to.
To what... your hugely successful chess career? Or maybe give being an Olympic gymnastics coach another try?
Face it ray, the only thing you have to fall back on, is your fat ass.
> Something else which seems to be flying over Alex's head is that in > computers, it pays to be early rather than late. I barely used > computers until I was 26, so I got a very late start. I wanted to be > early with whatever I did, and internet publishing looked like the best > bet for the future. In fact, it still does.
More rationalization of failure... ray likes internet publishing because it is free of editorial review or assessment of quality. If ray had to submit his garbage to a real publisher, they'd laugh him out the door, and he can't deal with rejection. With his internet publishing, he avoids ever having to face any rejection... there's never any messy reality check on the quality of his work.
>>>Since income affects a man's results with women, >>>the topic is fair game to see what a seduction guru earns >>>a year, if for nothing other than factoring out the income >>>from his results by comparing him to his socioeconomic peers
>>First of all Ray, income dosen't play MUCH in a man's results with >>women if he's bringing other things to the table, like a personality >>and an ability to show some compatibility with said woman.
> IF? The world doesn't run on IF.
Yes it does... for example, IF you can't get your case overturned, you'll have to pay a thousand bucks in damages.
>Personality is also subjective, and
Not really... whether or not a personality is a good one or not, that's subjective. Whether a personality is present is really rather objective.
Take you for example... you have no personality at all. You are simply a bundle of compulsions, anger, and fear.
> your basic argument is flawed because it presumes that the men women > choose to fuck are somehow "better" than the ones they do not.
More of ray trying to rationalize his failure... telling himself that the men women choose instead of him are no better than him.
Well in ray's case this is wrong for two reasons. First ray is such a vile creature than almost any man a woman picks is going to be a better man than ray, simple because ray is so far down the curve. Ray's the kind of street trash that would make a hooker pretend to be "on her break" when he propasitions her. But this only applies to ray.
The second reason he's wrong, and this reason applies to to all guys, is that the dude who a woman picks over you is better than you... he's better at making her think or feel that he can fulfil her desires. The fact ray can't understand or admit this, is why he can't change. He can never escape the trap of his limiting beleifes and behaviors, because he can't admit to his own role in his failures. He'll take no responsibility, and as such can make no changes, so he never will see improvment.
> This is > rarely the case. Then again, your idea of a man you liked speaks for > itself.
One ray reationalizes his failure to seduce women, is to attack the choices women make... if he can make your standards the problem, then he can ignore his own ability to meet those standards.
> Not like you could do much better, I suppose. For example, if > a woman is a coke whore, a guy will have a better "personality" to her > if he hooks her up with drugs instead of giving her an intervention.
Ray, if you don't want us talking about your mother, why do you keep injecting her into the conversation?
Anytime I come into money I know exactly how I can convert it
> into sex without even spending it,
Laughing, are you saying money doesn't matter? Or are you talking about waving a wad of cash in front of a girl......that reminds me of my brother who used to put a 100 around a wad of ones....snicker.
>>And second of all, Gunwitch's income isn't ANYONE's business, how he >>makes it, or how he spends it. If he chooses to share the information, >>that's one thing, but there isn't a requirement.
> Of course it's not a requirement. It is, however, relevant to > evaluating his level of "game," just as it is for anyone. I can fuck > hotties while not even living alone, in my thirties, overweight, with > an STD, and earning substantially less than the average American > income.
You "can"? Or you actually *do*?
> Anytime I come into money I know exactly how I can convert it
> into sex without even spending it, and if I want to spend it to get > laid, I could be fucking beauty queens.
If you *wanted* to, you could be fucking beauty queens? Sure, you could -- we all believe you. ;) To quote a pathetic, fourth-rate excuse for a scribbler: "IF? The world doesn't run on IF."
I asked in another thread for some specifics about your actual successes with your own "methods", but, not too surprisingly, I got no response whatsoever. Why would anyone think your methods have anything to offer if you won't even claim that they have worked for you, and back up that claim with some specifics?
> Anytime I come into money I know exactly how I can convert it >> into sex without even spending it,
> Laughing, are you saying money doesn't matter? Or are you talking about > waving a wad of cash in front of a girl......that reminds me of my brother > who used to put a 100 around a wad of ones....snicker.
I'm talking about the proper way to exploit wealth in seduction.
>> Anytime I come into money I know exactly how I can convert it >>> into sex without even spending it,
>> Laughing, are you saying money doesn't matter? Or are you talking about >> waving a wad of cash in front of a girl......that reminds me of my >> brother who used to put a 100 around a wad of ones....snicker.
> I'm talking about the proper way to exploit wealth in seduction.
There is no proper way. Using wealth is a crutch for somone with no skill.
>>> Laughing, are you saying money doesn't matter? Or are you talking about >>> waving a wad of cash in front of a girl......that reminds me of my >>> brother who used to put a 100 around a wad of ones....snicker.
>> I'm talking about the proper way to exploit wealth in seduction.
> There is no proper way. Using wealth is a crutch for somone with no skill.
Or for older guys who find it easier to spend money than to run game, which is what several gurus have done as they got too old for the club scene. How cute that you can make this claim without having to reveal your own financials.
Money can get a guy laid without his ever having to spend it directly on women. It's a huge advantage, plain and simple. There are many "proper" ways to exploit this.
