======================================================================
     The Most Predominantly Acceptable ASF (Alt.Seduction.Fast) FAQ
 ======================================================================

 SECTIONS

    1. Introduction (about this FAQ and ASF)
    2. Purpose of ASF
    3. Rules for ASF
    4. ASF Resources
    5. Commonly Used Terms
    6. Commonly Asked Questions
    7. Speed Seduction FAQ
    8. Contact/Credit Information
    9. Copyright notice

 Introduction (about this FAQ and ASF)
 -------------------------------------

      1. Where can I find the latest version of this document?

      There are 2 official mirror sites for this document (both in ASCII
      form and HTML form):

         * http://www.fastseduction.com/asf-faq.shtml
         * http://metabork.fr.eu.org/~nathan/ (not synced up yet)

      If you would like to mirror this document, please don't do so
      without first contacting one of the authors for permission and
      instructions. For convenience, this FAQ will be auto-posted to ASF
      in ASCII form on a regular basis.

      2. What is ASF?

      ASF stands for "alt.seduction.fast" which is an Internet Usenet
      newsgroup. ASF is a communication forum for discussing various
      fast pick up and seduction techniques. It is a group for
      discussing how to pick up women, fast; as opposed to discussing
      marriage theory.

      3. Where is the Charter for ASF?

      Currently, there is no reliable source for retrieving the original
      creation request ("control" message) or any alleged Charter which
      may have been included in such a request. Therefore, the best
      current and future source of information regarding the ASF
      newsgroup is this FAQ.

      4. Who created ASF?

      It doesn't really matter anymore. But, it has been alleged that
      the creation of the group (sometime in late 1994) was requested by
      a man named Ross Jeffries for the purpose of discussing his
      commercial product, Speed Seduction. However, the actual person
      who created the group has never been adequately identified. With
      current resources, it is not possible to confirm or deny the
      specific creator of the group. However, the rest of this document
      will help clarify the current position and use of ASF.

      5. Is ASF a moderated newsgroup?

      No, ASF has no moderators and has never been officially moderated.

      6. Is there an official ddministrator for ASF?

      No, ASF has no administrators, although some regular posters on
      ASF might claim they administer the group or are the "official FAQ
      admin". It is best to ignore such claims by those people, and
      perhaps ignore those posters entirely.

      7. What is the purpose of this FAQ?

      The purpose of this document is to help new and current users of
      ASF understand what the forum is about, what rules may exist for
      becoming involved with discussions, and how to get the most out
      of the forum. This FAQ will give the reader a healthy head start
      on what ASF is all about.

 Purpose of ASF
 --------------

      The ASF newsgroup was allegedly created for at least the partial
      purpose of Speed Seduction, a commercial product based on using
      NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming) in combination with various
      verbal seduction techniques, with the additional expectation that
      users of the forum could also discuss other, general [fast]
      seduction techniques. Since there is no reliable source for an
      original group Charter, it's not possible to completely confirm
      this. Therefore, the best inferences that can be made about the
      core purpose of the group is based on a number of quantifiable
      factors:

         1. The name of the group in the alt. hierarchy.
         2. The majority and type of posts appearing on the group in the
            past year (prior to the creation of this FAQ).
         3. The voiced opinions of a number of regular posters to ASF.

      The purpose of ASF is for discussing how to pick up women, fast,
      using a number of techniques. These techniques are constantly
      being tested and improved upon by the posters of ASF. This
      includes ideas on initial contact with women, various ways of
      quickly attracting a woman, avoiding pitfalls and common mistakes,
      and learning fronm the ideas, successes, and failures of others.
      One good example of how this process works takes the form of
      regular "Outing/Field Reports" which are descriptions of the steps
      people have taken in various situations and how those situations
      turned out. The rest of the group can then analyze this material,
      critique it, make suggestions, and use it as a model for their
      own pick up attempts. It's one big learning process.

 Rules for ASF
 -------------

      In order to keep the group sane, useful, and within reasonable
      order, it is requested that posters to the group follow the rules
      outlined below (as well as the Usenet posting rules their ISP has
      mandated upon them). If you do not wish to follow these rules,
      please do not post to the group.

      1. SPAMMING

      No spam of any kind is allowed on ASF. If you have a product to
      sell or a commercial web site to advertise, don't try to sell it
      or advertise it to the readers of the group. It's perfectly normal
      to discuss commercial products within the bounds of a conversation
      but blatant, unbiased advertising for any product will not be
      tolerated. Posting such material will likely result in a number of
      the regular posters reporting you to your ISP's abuse department.

      2. GROUP DISRUPTION

      Sometimes conversations can get pretty heated. Sometimes heated
      discussions go so far off-topic that many readers of the group
      will become extremely agitated. This behavior is called a "group
      disruption" and is very damaging to the ongoing usefulness of the
      group. If you end up creating 2 or more group disruptons, you may
      be asked to stop posting, cool off, or get back on topic by other
      people in the group. Ignoring such a request and continuing to
      blatantly disrupt the group will likely result in a number of the
      regular posters reporting you to your ISP's abuse department. Note
      that simply arguing or disagreeing with somebody is not
      necessarily a disruption of the group. Doing that, getting
      completely off-topic, and annoying people all at the same time is
      considered a group disruption.

      3. FLAMING

      If you need to flame someone, take it to alt.flame. If you
      disagree with someone's opinion, please respect the purpose of the
      group and disagree quietly if you can. If a discussion can't help
      but get heated, you take the risk of causing a group disruption
      (as outlined in item 2.) if the argument is taken too far or goes
      too far off-topic.

      4. CROSSPOSTING

      Crossposting is permitted as long as the groups being crossposted
      to are within the topical sphere of ASF and the readers of the
      other group(s) do not object to your post. However, posters are
      asked to keep their crossposting to a minimum. Lurk on a group
      before posting to it so that you get a good dea of what the
      acceptable topics are. Your ISP may also have their own
      restrictions in place regarding crossposted articles.

      5. PERSONAL ADS

      ASF is not an appropriate place to post a personal advertisements.
      Do not post personal ads in ASF.

      6. DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.

      If you detect somebody is trolling the group, possibly trying to
      cause a subtle disruption, please simply reply that you believe
      the person is a troll and end it at that. See item 3. If you feel
      the need to respond to a troll, please try to at least be concise
      (and witty).

 ASF Resources
 -------------

      The best resources for ASF information (beyond the group itself),
      along with a searchable posting archive, related links,
      hand-picked useful posts, etc. can be found at:

      Formhandle's site:
      Fast Seduction 101 - http://www.fastseduction.com/
      ASF searchable archive (mostly spam-free), public and private web
      boards, links archive, common terms list, Pick up Artists
      International Registry (PAIR)

      Maniac's site:
      http://metabork.fr.eu.org/~maniac/
      Hand-picked posts of interest from ASF with useful commentary.
      More links to other pages of interest. Also a private area (see
      Nathan's site info below regarding private area access).

      Nathan's site:
      http://metabork.fr.eu.org/~nathan/
      Nathan maintains a password-protected area on his site referred to
      as the "Lounge" or "Nathan's Lounge". It is a restricted part of
      Nathan's site where selected members can post their own pick-up
      photos and view others'. The site is restricted to respect
      people's privacy. Access is granted to regular posters, and for
      security reasons new members are added sparingly. Contact Nathan
      if you wish to get a password, that will also open up Maniac's
      private page.

      Kill Filters:
      A useful, growing list of Kill Filters for ASF (if your newsreader
      or newsfeed supports filters based on regular expressions) can be
      found at:
      http://www.fastseduction.com/filters.shtml

      Recommended reading:
      For newbies to ASF, it's a good idea to read the archived
      newsletters at:
      http://www.seduction.com/news/
      The newsletters may sound like informecials, but they are a must
      read to give you a good head start on the general fast pick up and
      seduction ideas behind a lot of the stuff posted on ASF.

 Commonly Used Terms
 -------------------

      The most
...

read more »

This was a good start, take out some of the negativity (for instance
the line that says to ignore all posts by someone claiming to be the
moderator.  And more prominantly feature RJ's stuff (it is an important
part of this group and it is very useful (even the free stuff).  The
goal should be to get a valid FAQ not to make any one look stupid or
teach them a lesson.  They typically do the former on their own and the
latter can't be done with out EST I expect.

NightLight9

In article <3806234D.F5948...@aol.com>,

======================================================================

...

read more »

....for the two or three guys who want to post off topic in complete
disregard of the overwhelming amount of information that supports the
fact that ross created this group and it is for discussion of ross and
his material.

Though it would really be a shame though if anybody took this seriously
and the remaining SSers, for whom this group was created, simply elect to
take their material elsewhere.  How long would it be before the
monotonous repetition set in?  A group of people who have no new ideas,
and who continue to cover the same ground over and over and over.  I
wonder how long it would be before you burnt out, or became another
soc.singles.

Ask yourself how much of the real valuable material here is coming from
nate or maniac?  Even you've admitted it of value only to newbies or the
very remedially skilled.  As such what would happen if that were that the
only material here?

How long before people start saying, "Hey, what happened to the SS
stuff....isn't this supposed to be the SS group?"   Then you and nate can
hold hands and tell them that you thought it was better for them to have
a group filled with remedial crap, because you have some doubts about the
validity of the archived material which says this is a speed seduction
group created for ross and his material.

--
The Spiffy Page, home of the Alt.Seduction.Fast FAQ:
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/burnaby/851

Stop living in your own little world.  A year ago this group was nearly
useless.  Since then Mystery, Nathan, Maniac, NYC, others and even I
(sometimes :-) have been posting useful and interesting material.
(sorry to those I left out).  Some it's repetitive and some of it
isn't.  GM tactics are as interesting as anything you have posted that
I have ever seen.  Much of what is posted is SS, some is not.  SS is
extremely poorly defined.  Currently you and Ray are the only problem
with this group (and Ray is actually less annoying).

NightLight9

In article <38063C60.5F8B4...@home.com>,
  Odious <Odi...@home.com> wrote:

======================================================================

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Wait, so it is not a speed seduction group, yet the ss material should be
a
prominent part of the group because it is useful.   Sounds like you want
to have your cake and eat it too.  It isn't really an SS group, but we
just use SS materials because they work...so we talk about SS but it is
not an SS group.   If you do not want to support this being a speed
seduction group, why then should the SSers provide any resources what so
ever?

The SSers who are here providing resources, do so for other SSers and
potential SSers.   The fact non-ssers are able to benefit from our work
is a bonus for them, not an obligation for us.

I know that if things get to the point where I have to wade through a ton
of outing reports from idiots who don't no what they are talking about,
nor what they are doing...that have nothing to do with SS,  I'll probably
stop posting here.  

See formhandel has a point.  In that the charter is messed up or
inaccessible for whatever reason, and so he can claim what ever he
wants.  Granted there is still a ton of evidence that shows this is a
speed seduction group that was created for the commercial support of ross
and his material, so anybody with half a brain or any experience can see
it is an SS group.  However, newbies will see form's fake FAQ and they'll
buy it.  Then they'll post off topic.   Sure they'll be told the real
topic and some will adhere to that.  But some won't.  SOme will continue
to post off topic with all the encouragement that nate and form can
muster.

After time the number of off topic materials will grow and grow and grow,
until none of the SSers are willing to put up with it any more.   Then
this simply becomes another sad soc.singles or alt.romance clone...where
the same 5 people post the same crap over and over and over again.

--
The Spiffy Page, home of the Alt.Seduction.Fast FAQ:
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/burnaby/851

In article <38064464.A6810...@home.com>,
  Odious <Odi...@home.com> wrote:

What the F- are you talking about, I own the BHSC and I use the
techniques in it all the time. I am an SSer, I just use what ever else
works as well.

OK.  I'm not going to respond to anymore of your posts unless they are
seduction related.  I still believe you have interesting stuff to talk
about, you just choose to pick fights with your flavor of the month
instead.  I won't be that.

The proof is in the posts so to speak.  I'm not too concerned.  This
group was a mess before NYC, Mystery and Nathan.  It's certainly better
with them.

If that happens, it won't be any different than it was before.  Endless
Ross vs. DRSteele posts and flame wars is much worse.

My last post to Odious,
NightLight9

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Absolutely top class. A REAL FAQ at last. I particularly liked the link to
the filters .... and yes I did spot the little deliberate mistake in "3.rules
for ASF/1.Spamming" .....

...

read more »

Someone Writes:

...for the two or three guys who want to post off topic in complete
disregard of the overwhelming amount of information that supports the
fact that ross created this group and it is for discussion of ross and
his material.

<-------And the discussion has moved on, hasn't it?  How about Ross SUE
those who post off-topic for interfering with his business?  Let a court
validate the rights you guys claim to have.  Go ahead.  He talks about
all his lawyers; why should he bother with ISPs and the like when the law
is on his side?

Though it would really be a shame though if anybody took this seriously
and the remaining SSers, for whom this group was created, simply elect to
take their material elsewhere.  How long would it be before the
monotonous repetition set in?  A group of people who have no new ideas,
and who continue to cover the same ground over and over and over.  I
wonder how long it would be before you burnt out, or became another
soc.singles.

<----------Ross is not defending the rights of his group.  ISPs are even
saying that people can post off-topic here.  Why doesn't he file a claim?
 I offered a solution myself which was met with a horrible insult of my
mother, so I guess that wasn't workable, so as far as I know anyone can
post here for any reason.  

Ask yourself how much of the real valuable material here is coming from
nate or maniac?  Even you've admitted it of value only to newbies or the
very remedially skilled.  As such what would happen if that were that the
only material here?

<--------Actually most of the valuable material comes from ME.  Men who
put Foxhunting into practice fully get results which are much better than
anything I've seen here in a field report save for a few posts.  The type
of women they get also aren't sluts, but hey don't let REALITY bother
you.

How long before people start saying, "Hey, what happened to the SS
stuff....isn't this supposed to be the SS group?"   Then you and nate can
hold hands and tell them that you thought it was better for them to have
a group filled with remedial crap, because you have some doubts about the
validity of the archived material which says this is a speed seduction
group created for ross and his material.

<---------More like the SSers couldn't tolerate criticism and tried to
bully dissenters out of the group.  Honestly, if you went with my
solution (off-topic or spam marked as such, limited to 3-5 posts a week),
I think it would give the FAQ much more credibility.  You chose not to do
that so you're stuck with relying on our ISPs to terminate us.  You can't
do that so now you're pretty much stuck.  

Outfoxing The Foxes: The Ultimate In Mind Seduction!!
http://www.cybersheet.com/fox/index.html

Join the OTF MODERATED Discussion list!!  Through the website!! No
flames, no trolls.....

___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Someone Writes:

...for the two or three guys who want to post off topic in complete
disregard of the overwhelming amount of information that supports the
fact that ross created this group and it is for discussion of ross and
his material.

<-------And the discussion has moved on, hasn't it?  How about Ross SUE
those who post off-topic for interfering with his business?  Let a court
validate the rights you guys claim to have.  Go ahead.  He talks about
all his lawyers; why should he bother with ISPs and the like when the law
is on his side?

Though it would really be a shame though if anybody took this seriously
and the remaining SSers, for whom this group was created, simply elect to
take their material elsewhere.  How long would it be before the
monotonous repetition set in?  A group of people who have no new ideas,
and who continue to cover the same ground over and over and over.  I
wonder how long it would be before you burnt out, or became another
soc.singles.

<----------Ross is not defending the rights of his group.  ISPs are even
saying that people can post off-topic here.  Why doesn't he file a claim?
 I offered a solution myself which was met with a horrible insult of my
mother, so I guess that wasn't workable, so as far as I know anyone can
post here for any reason.  

Ask yourself how much of the real valuable material here is coming from
nate or maniac?  Even you've admitted it of value only to newbies or the
very remedially skilled.  As such what would happen if that were that the
only material here?

<--------Actually most of the valuable material comes from ME.  Men who
put Foxhunting into practice fully get results which are much better than
anything I've seen here in a field report save for a few posts.  The type
of women they get also aren't sluts, but hey don't let REALITY bother
you.

How long before people start saying, "Hey, what happened to the SS
stuff....isn't this supposed to be the SS group?"   Then you and nate can
hold hands and tell them that you thought it was better for them to have
a group filled with remedial crap, because you have some doubts about the
validity of the archived material which says this is a speed seduction
group created for ross and his material.

<---------More like the SSers couldn't tolerate criticism and tried to
bully dissenters out of the group.  Honestly, if you went with my
solution (off-topic or spam marked as such, limited to 3-5 posts a week),
I think it would give the FAQ much more credibility.  You chose not to do
that so you're stuck with relying on our ISPs to terminate us.  You can't
do that so now you're pretty much stuck.  

Outfoxing The Foxes: The Ultimate In Mind Seduction!!
http://www.cybersheet.com/fox/index.html

Join the OTF MODERATED Discussion list!!  Through the website!! No
flames, no trolls.....

___________________________________________________________________
Get the Internet just the way you want it.
Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!
Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

I'll massage to be more positive.

Well, Ross has his own FAQ and I provide a link to it.  If he wants to
explain SS better, he can do it himself there.  If you mean add some more
background on SS and how it relates to this group, I don't think it's
warranted since then I'd have to add a background on every other seduction
product available as well.  The FAQ will not be a marketing masturbation for
Mr. Jeffries or Odious.

I think if I detract from the negativity, your concerns will be addressed.

Thanks for the comments.

--
jay <formhan...@aol.com>

Fast Seduction 101 - http://www.fastseduction.com/
Class is now in session...

What are you talking about?  This group is not just about SS, and because of
that the FAQ does not overly detail it where it would not be necessary.  For
SS related questions, I provide a link to the FAQ on Ross' site.  Anyway,
I'm trying to make a FAQ that is useful to ALL the people on this forum, not
just SS users.  I'm happy with it, and since I'm accepting suggestions for
improvement then I presume a great number of readers here will be happy with
it.  I don't understand where you or Odious' friction comes from.

--
jay <formhan...@aol.com>

Fast Seduction 101 - http://www.fastseduction.com/
Class is now in session...

It's a FAQ for Alt.Seduction.Fast.  This group is not available soley for
Speed Seduction.

I'm glad you finally agree that your FAQ does not answer the groups' real
questions and is simply a means to provide yourself with a foundation to
justify your flames and marketing spooge.

What I "pulled out of my ass" appears to be more useful to the group than
the one you pulled out of yours.  And it will become even more useful.  I
don't remember if I mentioned this before but your FAQ is not an official
FAQ by any means.  Anyone here can generate any FAQ they want, and the one
that gets prominently accepted over time shall become the defacto group FAQ
- never an "official" one, just the most acceptable and best suited for the
group.  The readers and posters shall decide.  I can't understand why you
have such a problem with an open system like that.

Isn't that what you said YOU were here for?  To combat and flame those
people out of this group?  You know what happens when you blow on a fire?

It's not a vision of how it "should be", it's how it is.

Nobody is asking anyone to stop posting SS material.  It's clearly a factor
in a good number of seduction strategies.  However, someone (you) has been
claiming that *only* SS discussions are acceptable here.  You've not only
been making those claims but actively intimidating people based on thos
claims.  I think you have a right to your opinions but everyone else has a
right to theirs.  In the absence of a group charter, it's important to
converge all the topical material here and determine what it is that
currently makes this group GOOD.  Your reasoning will eventually drive
everyone out sxcept for a few remaining spammers.  The group's reasoning is
to keep going in the positive direction it's been going in for the past year
and maintain that.  If that includes SS material, great, the more options
the better.  But to exclude all topics of discussion *except* for SS is not
only ungroundable but not very helpful for the group.

No, that thing probably failed because it eminated "secret society - nobody
welcome".  After a while, the guys on that list probably got bored with
stroking each others' virtual dicks and decided to get some *fresh*
knowlegdge to work off of which can only be found in an open forum.  This is
an OPEN forum.  Has that concept been lost on you?

--
jay <formhan...@aol.com>

Fast Seduction 101 - http://www.fastseduction.com/
Class is now in session...

And what does that make you?  The punchline?

--
jay <formhan...@aol.com>

Fast Seduction 101 - http://www.fastseduction.com/
Class is now in session...

This is a joke. Reading this, its obvious that many guys are WAY, and have
NO idea what SS is. Oh well, if it works you you, and you are happy, go
for it.

Boy imagine that...people want to know more about SS in the FAQ for the
SS group.  Looks like somebody is not answering the groups' real
questions, but simply trying to provide himself with a foundation to
justify his off-topic posting.

You maintain this is not an SS group and ross did not create it.  For
this you have zero proof.   Yet you claim the group has no set topic
since the charter archive file is corrupted.  Yet if that is the case,
then no FAQ would have any validity.  As such, there's no set topic and
anything can be posted by anybody.

How can you say, that the missing charter invalidates the existing FAQ,
yet the FAQ you just pulled out of your ass is valid?   Please cite any
source that substantiates anything you've claimed about this group and
the set topic?   I can point to rather extensive alt.config records from
numerous posters all saying the same thing...this this is a commercial
group for ross and his material.

So where if your evidence to the contrary?

However, if you maintain the lack of a charter means no FAQ is valid,
then there's nothing in place to keep ray from posting all the spam he
wants.   There's nothing in place to stop steele from posting all the
spam he wants.  There's nothing in place to keep personal adds out of
here or any of that.

After all, you've clearly said no charter means no valid FAQ.  Without a
valid FAQ, no ISP will act on reports of abuse in that group.  And since
you claim it isn't an SS group...well then there is surly no reason for
any of us to contribute SS material.  Nor is there any reason for us to
continue working to keep the spamers and idiots from soc.singles out of
this group.

Something tells me that most of the people here simply don't share this
vision of yours, on how the group should be.   Though I think it would be
amusing to see what would happen to this group if the SSers stop
contributing SS material.  So it was just the same stupid GM posts over
and over...the same newbie level material rehashed ad nausea.   Until it
becomes nothing but AFC's asking AFC's why they can't get laid.
Meanwhile the SSers continue to break new ground and refine existing
methods.

THis is the same sort of crap that happened with the mindlist.   A few
students learn a few things, then suddenly think they know everything and
are going run off on their own system.   However, they quickly stagnated
and now it is little more than an archive of SS material that's 5
generations old.

--
The Spiffy Page, home of the Alt.Seduction.Fast FAQ:
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/burnaby/851

Your pseudo FAQ, it's a joke.

Please site the relevant section of the valid ASF FAQ or the archive
config messages that support this claim.

Yeah, why talk about SS when the purpose of the FAQ is simply to try and
make off topic posts ok.

Who want to post off topic material.

--
The Spiffy Page, home of the Alt.Seduction.Fast FAQ:
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/burnaby/851

No, we'd be the premise.  The punch line will be when the SSers stop
contributing because you decided you were going to try and take over the
SS group so you could post off topic material and end up turning the
group into a spam fest.  Then finding you'd driven out the only truly
productive members of the group.  

--
The Spiffy Page, home of the Alt.Seduction.Fast FAQ:
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/burnaby/851

I'd like to see a definition of what constitutes an on-topic
post listed under part 3. Rules.

Here's a proposal

3.6 Definition of On-topic: Ask yourself this question
before you post. "Will this post serve to advance my
knowledge or other peoples knowledge of Speed Seduction and
it's practical applications?" If the answer is yes, post it.
Else, keep it to yourself.

--
Two guys are walking down the street.
The first guy walks into a bar, the second one ducks.
Visit my web page:
http://www.users.uswest.net/~jakethomson
jakethom...@uswest.net

Why bother asking who created the group, then spend several lines
saying you don't know ? As far as I know the group was created by
Lewis DePayne, who was then (and probably is) associated with Ross
Jeffries. Lewis also helped Ross put up his site. But as one of
Kevin Mitnick's closest friends, he's now going through a hard time
facing a few dozen criminal charges.

The first time I heard about Speed Seduction was when I read about
it in the appendix of a revised edition of the book 'Cyberpunks'
by John Markoff and Katie something. In this book, one-third is
devoted to Kevin Mitnick. In the appendix it updates his story with
the latest story of his recent arrest, the controversial Shimomura
story.Lewis demonstrates SS to Katie and stuns her with its
effectiveness.

R

--
      -=*=-     | Don't be a coward - use your real email address
  Rob J. Nauta  | ... ... ... ...
 r...@pobox.com  | ... ... ... ...
      -=*=-     | URL: http://www.xs4all.nl/~rob/       ICQ: 5369291

NO, the joke is that several of the participants here have purchased and
praised SS materials from Ross - BUT - because they are interested and willing
to look at all information concerning seduction, you feel the need to attack.

"SS works, so let's not try anything else! " What a shortsighted, stupid way of
doing anything in the world.

It is also interesting that NLP is so inclusive while you would have SS so
restrictive.  If something new works, someone in the NLP community will try to
model or discover why it works.  They don't put their head in the sand and
complain that it isn't "on-topic"

On 15 Oct 1999 15:11:39 GMT, Woody <taacnt4...@aol.com> wrote:
| NO, the joke is that several of the participants here have purchased and
| praised SS materials from Ross - BUT - because they are interested and willing
| to look at all information concerning seduction, you feel the need to attack.

Example: maniac and I have purchased materials from RJ.

| "SS works, so let's not try anything else! " What a shortsighted, stupid way of
| doing anything in the world.
|
| It is also interesting that NLP is so inclusive while you would have SS so
| restrictive.  If something new works, someone in the NLP community will try to
| model or discover why it works.  They don't put their head in the sand and
| complain that it isn't "on-topic"

--
Don't ask me personal seduction questions, please post to the group.
ASF's practical FAQ and newbie starting point:
http://metabork.fr.eu.org/~nathan/

I like the tv shows star trek and x-files.  So does that mean I should
talk about star trek in a group created for discussing x-files?

Nobody is attacked for embracing other methods, or for that matter even
discussing them here.   What people are attacked for is posting material
that is not relevant to SS in any way...or even worse actively
encouraging people to avoid speed seduction topics.

As i have said before....there is nothing wrong with talking about other
methods, as long as it is relevant to speed seduction.   Talking about GM
getting laid, has nothing to do with SS.  Talking about the concepts
behind how GM gets laid and comparing them to those used in a speed
seduction scenario, is on topic.

Look at the stuff james king posts.  He posts about a lot of non-ss
methods. However he does so in a way that is relevant to SS.  

No, it is more like "This is a group for talking about speed seduction,
and things that relate to SS. So lets talk about other material in
another group."

Nobody has ever said, don't look at anything but SS.  Nobody has ever
said SS is the only thing you should ever explore.   Rather, it is simply
being said that this is an SS group and not the venue for discussing all
these non-ss related topics.

Subsets tend to be more specialized.

SS does explore what works and why it works....then works to incorporate
those concepts into the overall system.  However, nothing that's been
presented in these off topics outing GM outing reports, is new to SS.  
The stuff nate is posting is based on concepts that SS covered a decade
ago.   Not only that, but nate doesn't even explore those concepts in
depth, nor does he distill out the valid info about those concepts.
Instead he simply posts what the bar was like and what the girl was
wearing blah blah blah.

So his material is very very limited in the value it presents and it has
nothing to do with SS.  

--
The Spiffy Page, home of the Alt.Seduction.Fast FAQ:
http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/burnaby/851

    Here's the old FAQ that I used to post it weekly on this newsgroup from
1997- late '98. It was written by Lewis DePayne when he created the
newsgroup way back when (1995?). Some of the information is obviously wrong
(i.e. Ross' email address)

Anyway, have at it. You can use it, abuse it, or tear it apart...just like
this group.

    === alt.seduction.fast ===
    Secrets of Speed Seduction
    ==========================
    http://www.seduction.com/

FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions

1. What is alt.seduction.fast?   A discussion/ongoing exchange about
the ideas, techniques and secrets of Speed Seduction. Speed Seduction
is the creation of Ross Jeffries, and it is an outgrowth/special
application of Neuro-Linguistic Programming.  Ross has developed methods
that any man can use to attract the best looking women, quickly and
easily, using NLP language/persuasion patterns specifically geared
for seduction.

2. Do you have to have any of Ross' materials to participate? No, but
it helps. Anyone with an open mind willing to share pickup/seduction
secrets may participate. Anyone can obtain a free catalog of Ross's
books and tapes and a free issue of his "Get Laid Newsletter" by
calling 703-791-6421.  You might also see him on various TV shows.

3. Are there any materials that can be downloaded for free?  You bet!
There are tons of materials at the official Secrets of Speed Seduction
world-wide-web (www) site (http://www.seduction.com).  There, you will
find back-issues of the Get Laid! Newsletters, seminar transcripts,
audio files of Speed Seduction in action, and other free items.

4. Can women participate in alt.seduction.fast?  Women's input is
welcome, especially women who are open minded and objective enough
to discuss these techniques.  Ross' techniques can also be used by
women to seduce whomever THEY desire, as well as for negotiation.

5. Are personals allowed in alt.seduction.fast?  NO!  Please post
these in the appropriate alt.personal groups.

6. What are some of the basic principles of Speed Seduction?

 A.  All decisions that people make are based on what state they
 are in. If don't like the decision they are making or want to make
 sure they decide your way, first get them in the right state of mind.

 B.  You can get women in virtually any state, like lust, desire,
 fascination, etc. by the proper use of descriptive language, using
 patterns Ross calls weasel phrases. Weasel phrases are sentences
 that SOUND like question, but are actually commands such as:

    "Have you ever..."  and  "What would it be like if..."

 While phrased as questions, these commands actually force the person
 listening to go inside themselves and remember times when they experienced
 the states or experiences you describe/name after the weasel phrase.
 Because they are NOT phrased as commands, people do not resist them.
 Using this principle, you can cause a woman to rapidly experience
 virtually any state you wish, without having to bother with the
 usual dating rituals/courtship crap.

 C.  There's no such "thing" as lust, desire, attraction, etc. These
 are not "things" that can be put up on a shelf, they are "processes"
 that people do to themselves inside their minds.  If you know what
 the process is you can install it by naming and describing it.

7.  Can we post questions or comments for Ross to answer publicly?
Yes. Ross will answer any and all questions to the best of his
ability either publicly or by E-mail (sandw...@via.net).

8.  Is any advertising allowed in alt.seduction.fast?  NO!  If you
have a product or service that might be of use to single guys looking
to have success with women, E-mail Ross privately and he will decide
how best to assist you in marketing what you have to offer.

9.  Is alt.seduction.fast a binaries group?  NO!  The only binaries
we'd like to see are those of our participants, especially the women.

10. Is there a mailing list for Speed Seduction? Yes! To subscribe to
the private, spam-free list send mail to:
"d...@seduction.com"
with the word "subscribe" as the subject.

Ross Jeffries,
Master Of Speed Seduction
sandw...@via.net
http://www.seduction.com