I found out that there were other players in this scene of helping guys
a few months ago, and never really gave it much thought - they were
simply other guys like David D looking to make some money out of the
techniques they had amassed and developed, all in a very friendly
manner. I saw clips of Mystery after having seen him in David D's Body
Language seminar, and was struck by his arrogance and separation from
women, resulting in an apparent lack of connection with women. I
listened to David D's interview with Tyler, and found the guy to be
fascinating; intelligent, fairly well spoken, and original. So formed
my first conceptions of the other facets to the seduction community.

Then, out of sheer coincidence, my best friend suggested that if I was
getting into all this Attraction Isn't A Choice deal, I should read
"The Game". This was fairly surprising, given that my best friend is an
AFC under the disguise of a very well built guy with a long-term
girlfriend. The good build, however, came from an insecritu about his
natural genetic big-bonedness, which led him to go crazy in the gym. He
no longer looked overweight, but due to his body shape, he still looked
large. Even though he had now formed a body that I would kill to have,
he still felt an insecurity about it. As for his long-term girlfriend,
she was an unattractive nymphomaniac with at least as many insecurities
and issues as he had. Their relationship was a strange dynamic of both
being so clingy to each other that the clingyness negated in a strange
nullifying defiance of social law, that I imagine is highly uncommon.

I then realised that he had not read the book. Instead, it had been
recommended to him by a mutual friend of ours, who fancied himself as a
bit of a ladies ban, though in reality he had as much game as a donut.
Apparently he had read "The Game", and tried to use the "techniques"
therein to attract members of the opposite sex. What it ultimately came
to, though was simply him targeting drunken girls wearing huge pairs of
beer goggles, and making highly sexual advances on the dancefloor,
which were nothing more than the accidental good moves of a guy with
the balls to slide his hand up a girl's leg. The poor dear probably
thought he had all the moves, and was a maestro in bed, but the truth
was, the only girl he'd had sex with was a promiscuous girl I'd fooled
around with behind his back. I could have slept with her were it not
for the fact that I realised that she wasn't at all attractive, with
fucked teeth and an overbite that wasn't even close to being Britney
Spears cute. That, and the threat of divine knife-wielding retribution
from her man lest he find out.

And so, when I was told to read this book, I approached it thinking it
would be yet another AFC pretending to be a pickup artist (See Player's
Guide on askmen.com for an example), with no game, and simply
rephrasing the points found in dating handbooks written by alleged
experts in the field of human interaction. (See "Men are from Mars,
Women are from Venus" for the greatest example of a man getting it
wrong, and hordes of men follwing him) I was, however, blown away.

The author described himself in a way that was not completely
dissimilar from myself, though the man was far older with much more
life experience than I. Several pages in, he mentioned David DeAngelo,
Mystery, and others. My interest was piqued. These were names I had
heard of, and knew of - knew that they were real, and weren't just
bullshitters.

I progressed further into the book, and started to see this world of
underground seduction through the eyes of a man who thought in much the
same way I did, though I do not say this in a way that implies that
Neil Strauss in any way have a connection on any level. As I saw these
people I had seen online and studied in a new light, my view of the
whole community changed. All of a sudden, I realised that in this
community, there were those who were naturals teaching what they knew,
and nerds who learned the programming, and teaching the programming to
other nerds. I wasn't sure what to make of it all.

The irony is, I picked up the book a few months ago, and got to the
scene in which the sheltered Catholic "Extramask" had his first sexual
encounter with a woman. ("Extramask", I learned later, has now become
an instructor for the Mystery Method spinoff Real Social Dynamics, who
goes by the callsign "Twenty-Six") I only started reading the book
again two days ago. Since then all of the important points have come
out of the woodwork.

Whereas I once envied and respected "Tyler", I now have not the
slightest iota of respect for him. His lack of a sense of honour, and a
lack of interest in women, disgust me, when I hear of the things he has
done (and maybe still does) in this world of female seduction. The fact
that he can reduce virtually any social interaction to the mechanics
and understand it that way totally removes any romanticism that could
be associated with him. Perhaps it is because of the fact that I love
women, and enjoy making women feel fantastic, and adore the
spirituality of inimacy, and having a connection with a woman, that I
find his breakdown of that which I love so disgusting. The kid
manipulates women by flicking their imaginary switches, and puts down
other PUAs tho threaten his "game". He doesn't do this because he loves
being with women and making them feel fantastic (a la Casanova), rather
he loves the power he feels over other guys who try to "game" women and
make them his. In breaking down the entire mating process and
understanding how to manipulate it as he saw fit, he totally destroyed
his chances of feeling any intimacy with any woman. At first I thought
that perhaps he was gay, using his control of women in front of other
men to get back at the jocks who had teased him for his effeminacy in
his youth. But then I figured that if he was this cold and negative to
men, particularly other men (or boys pretending to be men) who had
skill in "gaming" women, the chance of him actually wanting to love
another man were miniscule. Therefore, I decided that Tyler Durden was
an androgynous male robot, who understood how to get a woman to do
whatever he wanted, but had no desire to ever make a true connection
with a woman.

Of course, this portrayal of this university student with too much
babyfat and silly hair could be completely false - perhaps an attempt
by a jealous fellow PUA to discredit him by making him appear robotic
and cold - but I was tempted to think that Neil Strauss's perception of
him was true.

What really astounded me, though was when I came to this newsgroup, and
saw that it only had around 1600 subscribers. From the hype built up in
The Game and on Mystery's website, I assumed that by now hundreds of
thousands of men had flocked to this newsgroup, and every other out
there, and totally destroyed any close-knit group of seducers. This
isn't to say that 1600+ isn't a large number, but all the same, I had
expected more.

And so, after my lengthy babble and first post in this newsgroup,
perhaps you could share with me your perceptions of the world of
seduction. Is it as I think it is? Is there a place in it for a guy who
simply wants to make a great connection with an attractive woman and
achieve new levels of intimacy with her? Any and all replies will be
greatly appreciated.

Yours,

The Late Romanticist

I am thrilled to find this community, however, because as a guy
approaching midlife, and seeking new experiences with women and wishing
to learn what makes them tick and having some fun before possibly
settling down again (and after a divorce - the motto is definitely once
bitten, twice shy!) I have found it hard to get back into the dating
game. It was some 18 years ago that I needed 'attraction' skills and
the world has moved on and women much more 'power assertive'.

I haven't read The Game, and couldn't tell whether you were
recommending it or not, but I have read a few of the ebooks from
Juggler, Mystery and DD, excellent ideas and concepts contained within,
 and I looking for find what works for me as a British guy in his early
40's - and also as such, what will attract women of the 30-38 age
bracket to me!

I think the best information that I have gleaned from what I have read,
is simply that men CAN be the selectors of their women. I am actually
for equal power to both sexes. Before, I was of the hapless opinion
that women did all the selecting - but now I feel equal to them on
this. A vast improvement for me.

Alas where I live isn't a great pool of beauties, both in terms of men
or women. A friend calls the folk around here the 'Circus of the
Grotesque', which is perhaps a bit cruel, but I see his point, so in
order to meet potential women I have to travel further afield.

Anyway, I wish you well in your search and like has been said to me
when I joined, only yesterday, share your views, join in and tell us of
your successes. I think this encourages us all and teaches us much.

Vobes

Fire at will.

--
Money is not "game."
Looks are not "game."
Social status or value is not "game."
Those are the things that game makes unnecessary.

A seduction guru who teaches you that looks, money or status is game is not
teaching you "game," but how to be an AFC.  He uses his students' money to
get women and laughs that "AFCs pay my rent."

In the "hookup culture," with all the hotties forever on the market, it's
much easier to get a hottie, but far more difficult to keep one, wihch is
due to simple supply and demand.

Guys who are free agents are going to thrive because they won't get bogged
down in "relationships" with women who will either be cheating on them or
ready to move on the second a better offer comes along.

--
Money is not "game."
Looks are not "game."
Social status or value is not "game."
Those are the things that game makes unnecessary.

A seduction guru who teaches you that looks, money or status is game is not
teaching you "game," but how to be an AFC.  He uses his students' money to
get women and laughs that "AFCs pay my rent."

So again, welcome and keep posting.

--

The guy who fails at the game is the one who
goes out looking for women to make him
feel good about himself.

The guy who succeeds at the game is the one
who goes out and makes other people feel good
about themselves.  - Style

BTW, grp-ie.  Where is the Police case # (s) you MUST
have since you have posted that you have contacted them
about me.  AND..where is that "..lawyer in my hometown.."
ready to deal with me..I want to talk to them..

See, asswipe child molester.  U have a choice.

U can back up yer herpes infested, mommie's BF bloodied,
dolly kissing mouth...or watch ya back.  Maybe I'll contact
the Police in YOUR AREA and inform them you are making impotent
threats USING THEIR power.   Maybe I'll just stop by and ask
Penny out for coffee.  Maybe something else..maybe nothing @ all.

Cause I have to be in PA in Dec, before NAMM in Jan.

...I want to give U the chance to back up yer cakehole.

U have my cell #, all me.  Maybe I'll call ya mom and
make a coffee date.  Bet she has alot to say about 'ray-world'..

..If this upsets you, Please contact any Law/Enf office you want.

..I have your files ready to show them...

JJTj

** You admitted (see below) you ".wished."
** a child would die, JUST to get revenge on
** her mother for her crime of ".loving you."

SO, the question is, Mr. Gordon Roy Parker:

".how old was Michelle's daughter Cierra
  when you "wished" she would die, and if
  your "wish" could come true, what would
  you "wish" to happen to her.. ??????  ."

...Usenet records seem to note her age at 6 or 7...

..again..PLEASE..for the record...  Tell us all..

Does this refresh your memory, Mr. Parker..?

1 : to annoy, disturb, or persecute especially with hostile
intent or injurious effect

2 : to make annoying sexual advances to; especially : to
force physical and usually sexual contact on

- mo·les·ta·tion  /"mO-"les-'tA-sh&n, "mä-, -l&s-/ noun
- mo·lest·er  /m&-'les-t&r/ noun  

As for The Game... i'd point out a few details... first and foremost..
it's a fictional story based on true events. How much fiction and how
much true is the question. Is it more like "Live From Bagdad" where it's
almsot all completely on, except for a slightly hyped love story... or is
it more like the recent ABC portrayal of the events leading to 9/11...
where the only thing that was accurate was the date?

As for Tyler... he's a competitor. It's a fiercely competitive arena.
Just as our newsloon. He'll be happy to tell you how everyone is working
together to keep him down. Of course, they can't get along with each
other that well, but they are working against him too. He he. Everyone is
selling something. So, keep that in mind. Even here on ASF, someone will
be happy to sell you on something or direct you to a commerical siote
with free information... and things for sale. (the idea is that if you
walk into a Wal-Mart for a bake sale... you'll walk out with a purchase
or two also.)

That aside, there is also a MASSIVE flame war going on between the local
newsloon and several groups... for several reasons. Hang around and
you'll quickly catch on to all the hubbub. Some of the groups have
personal vendettas... maybe for good reason. Some are trying to sell
stuff and/or prevent the loon from selling his stuff. And some are just
having fun at another's expense.

BUT... there's also a core of ASF people that are, in my opinion...
REALLY great. They stay on topic most all the time. They have graet
advice and information. They are working to improve themselves. And they
are happy to help others improve as well. I do honestly thing that ASF is
a great board and that the information you find can and will, if you use
it and let it, help you to become a much better man and much better (as
it thus naturally would) at picking up ladies.

So, I sincerely hope you'll stick around, post a bit, read a bit, have
some laughs, and learn ...

read more »

Do yourself a favor and peruse the actual community portal.

~Jay

--
Form <formhan...@fastseduction.com>

Fast Seduction 101 - http://www.fastseduction.com/
Class is now in session...

Say goodbye to trolls, newsloons, and spam.
Gain (FREE) access to the moderated ASF newsgroups at:
http://www.fastseduction.com/discussion/

This place is completely neutral, uncensored, and doesn't have a
self-appointed "gatekeeper" profiting from the postings.

Trashing this group merely to promote one's commercial website is simply
lame.

--
Money is not "game."
Looks are not "game."
Social status or value is not "game."
Those are the things that game makes unnecessary.

A seduction guru who teaches you that looks, money or status is game is not
teaching you "game," but how to be an AFC.  He uses his students' money to
get women and laughs that "AFCs pay my rent."

"Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot"" <R...@cybersheet.com> wrote in message
news:-LCdnYW9QKSeGNXYnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@pghconnect.com...

BN

"Ray Gordon, creator of the "pivot"" <R...@cybersheet.com> wrote in message
news:-LCdnYW9QKSeGNXYnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@pghconnect.com...

There are different gurus with different styles, you can look around and
see which suits you best, I like Gunwitch his style because I like the:"
  this how you do it, no joking or fuzzy logic, just deal with it"
approach. On the other hand, I like David DeAngelo his cocky and funny
stuff as well because it sounds like fun.

Also this newsgroup isn't the best place too look for info because of
the flaming and off-topic stuff. Formhandle already mentioned
www.fastseduction.com which is a good place to start. Not that I'm
trying to force you away or anything. If you lurk here long enough you
will find out how it works around here and why there aren't many people
here.

Also... 100's of thousands? No way. That would be really bad. At best,
the idea, just me, I'd say would be maybe about several dozen regular
posters (about seduction, not the Flame Wars) and about 1,000 or so
readers, tops. If they are wanting to meet up, THEN head over to Mystery
Method or PAIR to search out a wing.

And comparing the readership of a forum to a newsgroup is a lot like
comparing the path of a bicyclist to a jet fighter.

Then again, you might not have access to the private University or might
not want to go out of your way to get there or have to deal with having
to listen to the doorman try to sell you something when you go to enter.
You're already here. And it's completely free... no cost *AND* no ads. No
affiliations. No business interests. No chance it's going to disappear.

Yes, there is a lot of information at www.mysterymethod.com and at
www.socialskillz.com and at several other fine forums. In fact, I
recently posted a honking huge list of websites that are out there. But,
this isn't a website. It's a newsgroup. You *MIGHT* be welcome to go to a
commerical website. Then again, you migh tget banned, censored, or simply
refused. Usenet is public.

So again... keep in mind that there is a difference between public access
information and privately owned business enterprise information.

--
She wants to meet a man and God dammit!   I am a man! == Scruff