There was some discussion a while back over the films on the
www.netvideogirls.com site and some other, and one of the questions which
came up was whether they were staged or not. Some new disclaimers have
appeared on the main pages of two of the sites recently which would seem
to clear up the issue.

From http://www.netvideogirls.com/:

"All activity is staged and discussed in advance of filming..."

And from http://www.bangbus.com/, which probably merits a more sizable
disclaimer:

"The images and videos within this website depict real people and their
behaviors when placed in fantasy situations. The behavior and actions
within are intended only for the world of fantasy and it would be both
irresponsible and dangerous to behave or act this way in the real
world...All activity is arranged and discussed in advance of filming and
every effort is made to insure the health and safety of the performers and
to ensure that their performance is a pleasant and enjoyable experience."

No big surprises, really. The guy on netvideogirls may, in fact, be a
great pickup artist--he certainly shows some consistent and reasonable
technique, from what I've seen--and, for that matter, the guys on the
"Bang Bus" may actually be a bunch of psychotics, but what they're putting
up there is evidently set up in advance...

--
Lefty <le...@stonemirror.net>
S:.C:.A:.R:.E:., W:.W:.T:.K:.
"And you may ask yourself, 'How do I work this?'" -- David Byrne

If this is real, I'm disappointed.  And all this time I thought that
there really were 'sick and demented fucks' like the guys on the bang
bus.  Oh well...

In article <80cbd97f.0112241307.131b5...@posting.google.com>,
<news:dont-bother-2412010057360001@64-125-89-35.got.net>...

Oh, there are, there most definitely are. Ted Bundy was one, for example
(who also operated, for a time, in Florida as I recall). The police out
here are currently looking for a serial rapist right here in the Santa
Cruz area whose modus operandi doesn't seem to be all that different than
that of the "boys on the bus".

Offering women rides, driving them out to the middle of the Everglades and
telling them they can either suck your dick or walk home ain't "picking up
women" and it ain't legal, either, I'm afraid. Most states have, at a
minimum, sexual assault statutes that could conceivably apply in all sorts
of "he touched me after I told him not to" situations....

--
Lefty <le...@stonemirror.net>
S:.C:.A:.R:.E:., W:.W:.T:.K:.
"And you may ask yourself, 'How do I work this?'" -- David Byrne

In article <16893577.0112241717.20a1...@posting.google.com>,

Well, I'd assume it mostly means that the guy running the site is not a
complete dolt as far as marketing goes, and is playing on your desire to
believe that it's possible to buy a video camera, put an ad in the paper,
and get a bunch of cute babes to just wander by and suck your dick for
you...

--
Lefty <le...@stonemirror.net>
S:.C:.A:.R:.E:., W:.W:.T:.K:.
"And you may ask yourself, 'How do I work this?'" -- David Byrne

In article <16893577.0112252308.1cefe...@posting.google.com>, will_210
@yahoo.com says...

Hey, let's look at this another way, OK?

Out of all the women you're making it with, how many of 'em are
enthusiastic about the idea of having you blow their load all over their
faces, eh?

Maybe it's a more popular pastime in LA...

If you'd like a practical experiment, next time you get a "hot
prospect" back to your place for the very first time, try grabbing a
handful of her hair and yanking hard. You seem to believe that the girl
will swoon, drop to her knees and go for your fly (and insist that you
come all over her).

I suspect that it's more likely she'd give you a good one in the nuts.

But try it out, by all means. Don't have a big breakfast first. Ice
takes the swelling down after a while.

--
Lefty
S:.C:.A:.R:.E:., W:.W:.T:.K:., D:.F:.W:.M:.
"And you may ask yourself, 'How do I work this?'" -- David Byrne

In article <16893577.0112252308.1cefe...@posting.google.com>, will_210
@yahoo.com says...

Well, go back and look. It's the very first thing you see when you
access the site.

Why would I? I believe the warnings on the side of the cigarette boxes,
but not what they say in the cigarette ads. (Hey, did you know that the
word "gullible" doesn't appear in the dictionary?)

Not at all, although I wonder about you, frankly. The quotes were from
the first screen you see at www.netvideogirl.com--the one that
constitutes an agreement between the company providing the site and the
consumer accessing it. Among other things, it says there "This warning
page constitutes a legal agreement between netvideogirls.com and you, as
well as any business entity of which you have any legal or equitable
interest..."

_That's_ the difference.

Believe what you like, pal. I'm pretty confident that if anyone tried in
"real life" what is being suggested is going on at netvideogirls, they'd
find themselves in seriously hot water. But if you think otherwise, by
all means have a go at it. Write when ya get outta prison, OK?

--
--
Lefty
S:.C:.A:.R:.E:., W:.W:.T:.K:., D:.F:.W:.M:.
"And you may ask yourself, 'How do I work this?'" -- David Byrne

In article <16893577.0112261724.529d1...@posting.google.com>, will_210
@yahoo.com says...

Um, lemme see if I'm following this.

The guy on netvideogirls _isn't_ at all worried that one of these girls
is going to freak out and have him charged with sexual assault, rape,
etc. He _is_ worried that you'll try to do what he's doing, get charged
with sexual assault, rape, etc., _yourself_ and then turn around and sue
him?

Gee, man, you really _want_ to believe it's all real, dontcha? Because
that doesn't make a lick of sense.

Actually, most people are good actors, especially when they're supposed
to improvise a situation they can relate to personally. The trick is to
avoid telling them it's "acting" but rather that it's "pretending" or
"making believe". _Everybody_ knows how to do that...

--
Lefty
S:.C:.A:.R:.E:., W:.W:.T:.K:., D:.F:.W:.M:.
"And you may ask yourself, 'How do I work this?'" -- David Byrne

thanks lefty.  i have been wondering about this site, bangbus, for a
while...i haven't heard of the netvideogirls site though.  anyway, i
was really f***ing curious if there were girls who would do the sort
of thing as on the bangbus site for a few bucks, and i do mean a FEW
bucks.  i did a search on google and this thread came up...lol, i had
made a post regarding this site to another newsgroup but it didn't
generate any response.  well, thanks to your suggestion to read the
disclaimer page -funny, i don't think i had ever done that before,
even before i was 18, lol- i have found the answer to my question.
"fantasy situations"...enough said.  actually, i was very relieved to
see that this site was staged...made me believe in humanity again.
well, thanks again...i feel like such a dope for not looking at the
disclaimer.  lol...happy holidays!

I dunno...I just watched a 5 minute video clip today at lukeford.com
that showed the guy using anchoring techniques to get the chick to
strip...check it out for yourself.  Just scroll down to the text that
reads "a special gift from lukeford.com".  There's a couple of still
photos that shows her eye movements, then watch the video.  Very
interesting

In article <5a698766.0112271749.233a9...@posting.google.com>,
guitarman60_2...@yahoo.com says...

Yeah, I saw that. As I said, the guy may, in fact, be a great pickup
artist, but I don't think that what's really going on here, appearances
to the contrary notwithstanding.

_Anyone_ in _any_ situation is going to give the sort of "eye cues"
described in this clip (and NLP describes a whole vocabulary of these--
see, e.g. _Instant Rapport_ by Michael Brooks) when responding to the
same questions. If she'd been coached in advance to pretend to be
initially resistant to taking her shirt off because of a boyfriend (say
until he specifically used the line about her boyfriend "losing his
turn"), she'd react in exactly the same way to the specific questions he
asked (i.e. "think of something you really like/dislike").

I tend to believe the statements that have legal ramifications. If he
claims that everything is staged, etc., in the disclaimer, he'd be
liable if that weren't in fact the case should the girl claim that she
was deceived into having sex with him on the basis of "appearing in a
calendar", when it's pretty clear on examining the site that no such
calendar in fact exists.

That'd constitute fraud, and, in California anyway, using fraud to get
someone top have sex with you comes under the heading of "rape" in the
Penal Code.

Sounds pretty risky to me.

--
Lefty <lefty@NO_SPAM_FOR_ME.mac.com>
S:.C:.A:.R:.E:., W:.W:.T:.K:., D:.F:.W:.M:.
"And you may ask yourself, 'How do I work this?'" -- David Byrne

In article <MPG.16959df4885b1e74989...@news.got.net>, dont-
bot...@spamming.me says...

[post cut for brevity]

Lefty,

Here, below, is a repost of what I wrote regarding NetVideo girls a
while back. I haven't looked at the site since then, but my observations
are probably just as applicable now as they were then (though they may
have edited out or reshot the "give aways" I mention):

***********************
I took a look at a few of the Mpegs--I even
downloaded some of the big, high resolution video clips, and it
was interesting to see what it was all about. However, my
impression of the videos is that they are not entirely genuine.

The web site says the women are not "prepped" beforehand, but
after carefully watching some of the videos, I am convinced the
women are thoroughly prepped in advance so they know they will
be doing a sex scene.

I don't believe the women are operating off a script as Guiness
suggested, but I suspect the guy picks the women up in a strip
club rather than a mall, and I'm convinced the women know
beforehand that they are going to be doing a sex scene on film.

I think it's also likely that the women know that they will get
paid well for playing along, probably getting an extra bonus if
their video ends up being downloaded by a lot of customers.

My conclusion is based on watching the videos carefully for
subtle clues that tell the real story.

For example, one subtle give-away occurs whenever the guy asks
the woman if she has ever done modeling before.

The women say "uh, no!!!" sounding almost as though they were
denying an accusation.

If a woman is being hired to model for a calendar and she has no
experience at it, she would answer "no" either neutrally or
apologetically, like "sorry, but no I haven't done any modeling,
I hope that's okay".

Instead, these women say "no" as if it was a bad thing for them
to have previous experience at modelling. (Sure, the guy could
have told them earlier that he is looking for someone with no
experience, but...during the interview he actually says he is
disappointed because he was hoping she had experience, so that
leaves no good explanation for the way she says "no".)

Anyway, this makes it obvious to me that the guy prepped them
beforehand, telling them to answer "no" to that question to help
him create the impression that the women don't have prior
stripping experience.

There are many subtle clues of that sort throughout the videos.

Another give away is when the women appear surprised by
something the guy does. It is obvious that they are trying to
act surprised rather than being genuinely surprised. (As actors
they are not expert enough to fake the appearance of being
genuinely surprised.)

It is conceivable that the guy didn't prep the women he used to
make the "rejection videos", but I didn't look at those videos
so I'm not sure about those.

For better or worse, there really is a whole category of porn
carefully crafted to appeal to people who are turned off by the
artificiality of common porn, but who respond to something that
seems more real and "home made".

Even when these "home made" operations genuinely start out as
amateur ventures, they are usually bought up by major porn
companies who quickly bring in professionals to ensure more
explicit stuff per minute of footage, while at the same time
they attempt to keep the appearance of it being amateur or "home
made".

My point is that since the videos are, IMHO, using women who
knew they were going to be doing a sex scene, it is questionable
if the guy's dialogue during the "interview" contains any "lessons" of
value regarding how to pickup or seduct women--he is merely guiding a
woman as they improvise and play out a loosely agreed upon sex scene.

DeepBlue

He's not using "anchoring", but he is using another NLP technique
(pretty poorly, actually)... Not sure why he's claiming that he's using
"anchoring" unless he just picked up a mish-mosh of NLP techniques and
it's all just jargon to him.

But, anyway, that chick in the video looks like a 6.5 at best.  There
really wouldn't be much to seduce her since, from what it appears to be,
she was already there for some kind of experience.  3/4 of the work was
already done.

My take is that most, if not all are staged.

--
jay <formhan...@fastseduction.com>

Fast Seduction 101 - http://www.fastseduction.com/
Class is now in session...

Say goodbye to trolls, newsloons, and spam.
Gain (FREE) access to the moderated ASF newsgroups at:
http://www.fastseduction.com/discussion/

In article <iR3X7.3184$5c4.393...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,

Yeah, interesting that you should mention that--I've noticed some
similar things, some subtle and a few not-so-subtle at all.

In one of the clips that I viewed he asks the girl (who definitely
doesn't look "amateur"--she's got an obviously doctored set of double
Ds) what kind of modeling experience she's had. She looks perplexed for
a second, very obviously looks _slightly off to one side_, no longer
looking directly at the camera guy, very much as though she's addressing
someone standing behind him and off to one side and says, "Um, I'm not
going to talk about the stuff I've done on camera..." at which point
Camera Guy breaks in and says, "Um, what do you mean 'on camera'...what
kind of stuff have you done?". At this point she recovers and goes on. A
very odd moment, and a clear break in the "scene".

What surprises me, I guess, is that this comes as a surprise to
anyone...

--
Lefty <lefty@NO_SPAM_FOR_ME.mac.com>
S:.C:.A:.R:.E:., W:.W:.T:.K:., D:.F:.W:.M:.
"And you may ask yourself, 'How do I work this?'" -- David Byrne

In article <3C2CFC84.59481...@fastseduction.com>, Formhandle

Yeah, he's playing around with eye cues. I'm drawing a blank on the name
of the NLP concept where you tend to group things into particular areas
of a conceptual "space", but that's more what he's attempting to
demonstrate there.

Agreed. What's interesting to me is how badly some people seem to want
to believe that this is not actually the case. What's more than a little
scary is that some folks seem to want to believe the same thing about
the "Bang Bus"...

--
Lefty <lefty@NO_SPAM_FOR_ME.mac.com>
S:.C:.A:.R:.E:., W:.W:.T:.K:., D:.F:.W:.M:.
"And you may ask yourself, 'How do I work this?'" -- David Byrne

Actually what he is trying to do is more along the lines of Vivid
Visualization, a technique that is taught on the Essential Skills tapes that
I have been watching.  Interesting to see it used in real life.

news:MPG.1696fe6b3c41a4c29896c3@news.got.net...

thanks lefty.  i have been wondering about this site, bangbus, for a
while...i haven't heard of the netvideogirls site though.  anyway, i
was really f***ing curious if there were girls who would do the sort
of thing as on the bangbus site for a few bucks, and i do mean a FEW
bucks.  i did a search on google and this thread came up...lol, i had
made a post regarding this site to another newsgroup but it didn't
generate any response.  well, thanks to your suggestion to read the
disclaimer page -funny, i don't think i had ever done that before,
even before i was 18, lol- i have found the answer to my question.
"fantasy situations"...enough said.  actually, i was very relieved to
see that this site was staged...made me believe in humanity again.
well, thanks again...i feel like such a dope for not looking at the
disclaimer.  lol...happy holidays!

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He's not using "anchoring", but he is using another NLP technique
(pretty poorly, actually)... Not sure why he's claiming that he's using
"anchoring" unless he just picked up a mish-mosh of NLP techniques and
it's all just jargon to him.

But, anyway, that chick in the video looks like a 6.5 at best.  There
really wouldn't be much to seduce her since, from what it appears to be,
she was already there for some kind of experience.  3/4 of the work was
already done.

My take is that most, if not all are staged.

--
jay <formhan...@fastseduction.com>

Fast Seduction 101 - http://www.fastseduction.com/
Class is now in session...

Say goodbye to trolls, newsloons, and spam.
Gain (FREE) access to the moderated ASF newsgroups at:
http://www.fastseduction.com/discussion/

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I dunno...I just watched a 5 minute video clip today at lukeford.com
that showed the guy using anchoring techniques to get the chick to
strip...check it out for yourself.  Just scroll down to the text that
reads "a special gift from lukeford.com".  There's a couple of still
photos that shows her eye movements, then watch the video.  Very
interesting

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In article <16893577.0112252308.1cefe...@posting.google.com>, will_210
@yahoo.com says...

Well, go back and look. It's the very first thing you see when you
access the site.

Why would I? I believe the warnings on the side of the cigarette boxes,
but not what they say in the cigarette ads. (Hey, did you know that the
word "gullible" doesn't appear in the dictionary?)

Not at all, although I wonder about you, frankly. The quotes were from
the first screen you see at www.netvideogirl.com--the one that
constitutes an agreement between the company providing the site and the
consumer accessing it. Among other things, it says there "This warning
page constitutes a legal agreement between netvideogirls.com and you, as
well as any business entity of which you have any legal or equitable
interest..."

_That's_ the difference.

Believe what you like, pal. I'm pretty confident that if anyone tried in
"real life" what is being suggested is going on at netvideogirls, they'd
find themselves in seriously hot water. But if you think otherwise, by
all means have a go at it. Write when ya get outta prison, OK?

--
--
Lefty
S:.C:.A:.R:.E:., W:.W:.T:.K:., D:.F:.W:.M:.
"And you may ask yourself, 'How do I work this?'" -- David Byrne

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In article <16893577.0112252308.1cefe...@posting.google.com>, will_210
@yahoo.com says...

Hey, let's look at this another way, OK?

Out of all the women you're making it with, how many of 'em are
enthusiastic about the idea of having you blow their load all over their
faces, eh?

Maybe it's a more popular pastime in LA...

If you'd like a practical experiment, next time you get a "hot
prospect" back to your place for the very first time, try grabbing a
handful of her hair and yanking hard. You seem to believe that the girl
will swoon, drop to her knees and go for your fly (and insist that you
come all over her).

I suspect that it's more likely she'd give you a good one in the nuts.

But try it out, by all means. Don't have a big breakfast first. Ice
takes the swelling down after a while.

--
Lefty
S:.C:.A:.R:.E:., W:.W:.T:.K:., D:.F:.W:.M:.
"And you may ask yourself, 'How do I work this?'" -- David Byrne

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In article <16893577.0112261724.529d1...@posting.google.com>, will_210
@yahoo.com says...

Um, lemme see if I'm following this.

The guy on netvideogirls _isn't_ at all worried that one of these girls
is going to freak out and have him charged with sexual assault, rape,
etc. He _is_ worried that you'll try to do what he's doing, get charged
with sexual assault, rape, etc., _yourself_ and then turn around and sue
him?

Gee, man, you really _want_ to believe it's all real, dontcha? Because
that doesn't make a lick of sense.

Actually, most people are good actors, especially when they're supposed
to improvise a situation they can relate to personally. The trick is to
avoid telling them it's "acting" but rather that it's "pretending" or
"making believe". _Everybody_ knows how to do that...

--
Lefty
S:.C:.A:.R:.E:., W:.W:.T:.K:., D:.F:.W:.M:.
"And you may ask yourself, 'How do I work this?'" -- David Byrne

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In article <5a698766.0112271749.233a9...@posting.google.com>,
guitarman60_2...@yahoo.com says...

Yeah, I saw that. As I said, the guy may, in fact, be a great pickup
artist, but I don't think that what's really going on here, appearances
to the contrary notwithstanding.

_Anyone_ in _any_ situation is going to give the sort of "eye cues"
described in this clip (and NLP describes a whole vocabulary of these--
see, e.g. _Instant Rapport_ by Michael Brooks) when responding to the
same questions. If she'd been coached in advance to pretend to be
initially resistant to taking her shirt off because of a boyfriend (say
until he specifically used the line about her boyfriend "losing his
turn"), she'd react in exactly the same way to the specific questions he
asked (i.e. "think of something you really like/dislike").

I tend to believe the statements that have legal ramifications. If he
claims that everything is staged, etc., in the disclaimer, he'd be
liable if that weren't in fact the case should the girl claim that she
was deceived into having sex with him on the basis of "appearing in a
calendar", when it's pretty clear on examining the site that no such
calendar in fact exists.

That'd constitute fraud, and, in California anyway, using fraud to get
someone top have sex with you comes under the heading of "rape" in the
Penal Code.

Sounds pretty risky to me.

--
Lefty <lefty@NO_SPAM_FOR_ME.mac.com>
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"And you may ask yourself, 'How do I work this?'" -- David Byrne

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In article <3C2CFC84.59481...@fastseduction.com>, Formhandle

Yeah, he's playing around with eye cues. I'm drawing a blank on the name
of the NLP concept where you tend to group things into particular areas
of a conceptual "space", but that's more what he's attempting to
demonstrate there.

Agreed. What's interesting to me is how badly some people seem to want
to believe that this is not actually the case. What's more than a little
scary is that some folks seem to want to believe the same thing about
the "Bang Bus"...

--
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In article <iR3X7.3184$5c4.393...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,

Yeah, interesting that you should mention that--I've noticed some
similar things, some subtle and a few not-so-subtle at all.

In one of the clips that I viewed he asks the girl (who definitely
doesn't look "amateur"--she's got an obviously doctored set of double
Ds) what kind of modeling experience she's had. She looks perplexed for
a second, very obviously looks _slightly off to one side_, no longer
looking directly at the camera guy, very much as though she's addressing
someone standing behind him and off to one side and says, "Um, I'm not
going to talk about the stuff I've done on camera..." at which point
Camera Guy breaks in and says, "Um, what do you mean 'on camera'...what
kind of stuff have you done?". At this point she recovers and goes on. A
very odd moment, and a clear break in the "scene".

What surprises me, I guess, is that this comes as a surprise to
anyone...

--
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Actually what he is trying to do is more along the lines of Vivid
Visualization, a technique that is taught on the Essential Skills tapes that
I have been watching.  Interesting to see it used in real life.

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