According to today's New York Times, the CDC and the New York Health Department appear to have closed the Kathy Nguyen case as unsolved and unlikely to ever be solved. The link is here (but registration is required): http://www.nytimes.com/2002/04/02/health/02DISE.html
The key paragraphs are:
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"When Kathy T. Nguyen died of inhalation anthrax in New York on Oct. 31, the police and medical investigators were quickly deployed to find the source of the spores that had infected her. They interviewed 232 co-workers, 27 neighbors and 35 acquaintances in an effort to reconstruct her final two months. They searched her apartment and swabbed surfaces there and in her workplace and the subway stations she used. They vacuumed her clothes in search of spores. They used her subway fare card to trace her path around the city, studied her phone records and inspected her usual laundry, post office and grocery store.
"They never found a single spore or any other clue to how Ms. Nguyen became infected.
"Describing the investigation at a medical meeting last week in Atlanta, Dr. Timothy Holtz, a preventive medicine fellow at the New York City Health Department, concluded with a slide that said, 'We will likely never know.'"
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As you can see from the text above, they never even bothered to look in the most likely places. They were apparently on the wrong track from the start and never bothered to take a step back and look at the whole situation. If they had, they would have realized they were on the wrong track. Check this page for details: http://www.anthraxinvestigation.com/nguyen.html
I read your Nguyen page. You list a Laura Burch as part of the Post Office contamination in Trenton.
The name is actually Linda and she was exposed in her office. Confirmation date was 10/29/01 She falls into the same category as Nguyen and Lundgren, i.e. not near a targeted mail recipient and not a Post Office visitor. Her case differs in that it was cutaneous and that they found Anthrax where she was known to be.
> According to today's New York Times, the CDC and the New > York Health Department appear to have closed the Kathy > Nguyen case as unsolved and unlikely to ever be solved. > The link is here (but registration is required): > http://www.nytimes.com/2002/04/02/health/02DISE.html
> The key paragraphs are:
> -------------
> "When Kathy T. Nguyen died of inhalation anthrax in New > York on Oct. 31, the police and medical investigators were > quickly deployed to find the source of the spores that had > infected her. They interviewed 232 co-workers, 27 > neighbors and 35 acquaintances in an effort to reconstruct > her final two months. They searched her apartment and > swabbed surfaces there and in her workplace and the subway > stations she used. They vacuumed her clothes in search of > spores. They used her subway fare card to trace her path > around the city, studied her phone records and inspected > her usual laundry, post office and grocery store.
> "They never found a single spore or any other clue to how > Ms. Nguyen became infected.
> "Describing the investigation at a medical meeting last > week in Atlanta, Dr. Timothy Holtz, a preventive medicine > fellow at the New York City Health Department, concluded > with a slide that said, 'We will likely never know.'"
> -------------
> As you can see from the text above, they never even > bothered to look in the most likely places. They were > apparently on the wrong track from the start and never > bothered to take a step back and look at the whole > situation. If they had, they would have realized they > were on the wrong track. Check this page for details: > http://www.anthraxinvestigation.com/nguyen.html
Okay, I corrected the information about Linda Burch. Thanks.
However, I don't agree that she falls into the same category as Kathy Nguyen. Nguyen is in a category all by herself: "Unknown anthrax source". The CDC assumed she was contaminated by a letter mailed on October 9, and that's all they have investigated - getting nowhere.
I wouldn't mind if they considered and then rejected the idea that she was contaminated by anthrax thrown into the trash from the September 18 mailing, but, as far as I can tell, that idea has never even occurred to them.
J wrote: > I read your Nguyen page. You list a Laura Burch as part of the Post Office > contamination in Trenton.
> The name is actually Linda and she was exposed in her office. Confirmation > date was 10/29/01 > She falls into the same category as Nguyen and Lundgren, i.e. not near a > targeted mail recipient and not a Post Office visitor. Her case differs in > that it was cutaneous and that they found Anthrax where she was known to be.
> Ed Lake <det...@newsguy.com> wrote in message > news:3CAB3B8F.107B326D@newsguy.com... > > According to today's New York Times, the CDC and the New > > York Health Department appear to have closed the Kathy > > Nguyen case as unsolved and unlikely to ever be solved. > > The link is here (but registration is required): > > http://www.nytimes.com/2002/04/02/health/02DISE.html
> > The key paragraphs are:
> > -------------
> > "When Kathy T. Nguyen died of inhalation anthrax in New > > York on Oct. 31, the police and medical investigators were > > quickly deployed to find the source of the spores that had > > infected her. They interviewed 232 co-workers, 27 > > neighbors and 35 acquaintances in an effort to reconstruct > > her final two months. They searched her apartment and > > swabbed surfaces there and in her workplace and the subway > > stations she used. They vacuumed her clothes in search of > > spores. They used her subway fare card to trace her path > > around the city, studied her phone records and inspected > > her usual laundry, post office and grocery store.
> > "They never found a single spore or any other clue to how > > Ms. Nguyen became infected.
> > "Describing the investigation at a medical meeting last > > week in Atlanta, Dr. Timothy Holtz, a preventive medicine > > fellow at the New York City Health Department, concluded > > with a slide that said, 'We will likely never know.'"
> > -------------
> > As you can see from the text above, they never even > > bothered to look in the most likely places. They were > > apparently on the wrong track from the start and never > > bothered to take a step back and look at the whole > > situation. If they had, they would have realized they > > were on the wrong track. Check this page for details: > > http://www.anthraxinvestigation.com/nguyen.html
Ed Lake wrote in message <3CAC711A.7C905...@newsguy.com>... >J,
>Okay, I corrected the information about Linda Burch. Thanks.
>However, I don't agree that she falls into the same category as Kathy Nguyen. >Nguyen is in a category all by herself: "Unknown anthrax source". The CDC >assumed she was contaminated by a letter mailed on October 9, and that's all >they have investigated - getting nowhere.
>I wouldn't mind if they considered and then rejected the idea that she was >contaminated by anthrax thrown into the trash from the September 18 mailing, >but, as far as I can tell, that idea has never even occurred to them.
Why would only *one* person be infected from a letter thrown into the trash, especially someone who wouldn't have had any more contact with it than the thousands of other passerbys? (Of course, we have to assume then, that Kathy Nguyen walked by one or more of those anthrax-infested places in NYC at just the right time when the trash was being thrown out.) Office trash isn't exactly thrown out in the streets of NYC for people to walk through.
Kris Baker wrote: > Ed Lake wrote in message <3CAC711A.7C905...@newsguy.com>... > >J,
> >Okay, I corrected the information about Linda Burch. Thanks.
> >However, I don't agree that she falls into the same category as Kathy > Nguyen. > >Nguyen is in a category all by herself: "Unknown anthrax source". The CDC > >assumed she was contaminated by a letter mailed on October 9, and that's > all > >they have investigated - getting nowhere.
> >I wouldn't mind if they considered and then rejected the idea that she was > >contaminated by anthrax thrown into the trash from the September 18 > mailing, > >but, as far as I can tell, that idea has never even occurred to them.
> Why would only *one* person be infected from a letter > thrown into the trash, especially someone who wouldn't > have had any more contact with it than the thousands > of other passerbys? (Of course, we have to assume > then, that Kathy Nguyen walked by one or more of those > anthrax-infested places in NYC at just the right time > when the trash was being thrown out.) Office trash isn't > exactly thrown out in the streets of NYC for people to walk > through.
> Kris
Kris,
First of all, she wasn't the only person infected by a letter thrown into the trash. Two people at the New York Post were infected with cutaneous anthrax as a result of hunting through the trash to find the letter that they had throw away - before the news had broken that someone was sending anthrax through the mail. And a police officer was contaminated with anthrax when looking through the trash at NBC, where he found the Tom Brokaw letter which had also been thrown out. That police officer then took the letter to a lab and contaminated two lab technicians with it. Presumably, people at ABC and CBS also hunted for the letters they had thrown out. All this happened at around the same time as Kathy contracted anthrax.
Why did Kathy Nguyen get anthrax? She was elderly and more susceptible. Maybe she happened to stand behind someone on a subway whose clothes were covered with anthrax? Being Vietnamese, she was probably small in size, which would put her face near people's clothes. Maybe she bumped into someone at the hospital who was covered with anthrax? When all the employees at ABC, CBS, NBC and the New York Post heard that their companies had received anthrax-laced letters, didn't many of them go to hospitals in a panic? Did any of them encounter Kathy there? Who knows?
The thing that has to be done is to look at what happened to that anthrax and how it was disposed of, how the areas were cleaned and who cleaned them. Then you can see if there is any intersection with Kathy Nguyen.
Ed Lake wrote in message <3CACDB55.DA167...@newsguy.com>... >Kris Baker wrote:
>> Ed Lake wrote in message <3CAC711A.7C905...@newsguy.com>... >> >J,
>> >Okay, I corrected the information about Linda Burch. Thanks.
>> >However, I don't agree that she falls into the same category as Kathy >> Nguyen. >> >Nguyen is in a category all by herself: "Unknown anthrax source". The CDC >> >assumed she was contaminated by a letter mailed on October 9, and that's >> all >> >they have investigated - getting nowhere.
>> >I wouldn't mind if they considered and then rejected the idea that she was >> >contaminated by anthrax thrown into the trash from the September 18 >> mailing, >> >but, as far as I can tell, that idea has never even occurred to them.
>> Why would only *one* person be infected from a letter >> thrown into the trash, especially someone who wouldn't >> have had any more contact with it than the thousands >> of other passerbys? (Of course, we have to assume >> then, that Kathy Nguyen walked by one or more of those >> anthrax-infested places in NYC at just the right time >> when the trash was being thrown out.) Office trash isn't >> exactly thrown out in the streets of NYC for people to walk >> through.
>> Kris
>Kris,
>First of all, she wasn't the only person infected by a letter thrown into the >trash. Two people at the New York Post were infected with cutaneous anthrax as >a result of hunting through the trash to find the letter that they had throw >away - before the news had broken that someone was sending anthrax through the >mail. And a police officer was contaminated with anthrax when looking through >the trash at NBC, where he found the Tom Brokaw letter which had also been >thrown out. That police officer then took the letter to a lab and contaminated >two lab technicians with it. Presumably, people at ABC and CBS also hunted for >the letters they had thrown out. All this happened at around the same time as >Kathy contracted anthrax.
>Why did Kathy Nguyen get anthrax? She was elderly and more susceptible. Maybe >she happened to stand behind someone on a subway whose clothes were covered >with anthrax? Being Vietnamese, she was probably small in size, which would >put her face near people's clothes. Maybe she bumped into someone at the >hospital who was covered with anthrax? When all the employees at ABC, CBS, NBC >and the New York Post heard that their companies had received anthrax-laced >letters, didn't many of them go to hospitals in a panic? Did any of them >encounter Kathy there? Who knows?
>The thing that has to be done is to look at what happened to that anthrax and >how it was disposed of, how the areas were cleaned and who cleaned them. Then >you can see if there is any intersection with Kathy Nguyen.
Ed, your list of victims/circumstances is unlike anything I can find reported anywhere. Here's from the BBC, but it's exactly like many others:
The victims
Five people have been killed by the attacks. All of them were infected by the deadliest form of the disease - inhalation anthrax.
Journalist Bob Stevens died of respiratory anthrax
Bob Stevens, 63, picture editor of the Sun newspaper, died on 5 October in Boca Raton, Florida. Anthrax spores were found on his computer keyboard Thomas Morris Jr, 55, Washington, worked at the Brentwood office which handled an anthrax-laced letter sent to Senator Tom Daschle Joseph Curseen, 47, worked at the same office Kathy Nguyen, 61, worked in a New York hospital Ottilie Lundgren, 94, lived in a rural community in Connecticut. Her case and that of Ms Nguyen are the only ones that have not been traces to tainted mail Cases of inhalation anthrax
Five people are confirmed to have contracted inhalation anthrax.
Ernesto Blanco, 73, employed in the mail room of American Media Inc, the group which owns the Sun newspaper Postal worker Leroy Richmond, 57 An unnamed colleague of his is also in hospital Two female postal workers from the Trenton area in New Jersey, where some anthrax-laced were sent from Cases of skin anthrax
Cases of skin anthrax, a less serious form of the disease in which the bacteria enter via a cut in the skin, have been confirmed in several New York media offices and in New Jersey.
Claire Fletcher contracted the disease after opening a letter
Erin O'Connor, 38, assistant to NBC anchor Tom Brokaw was the first person to test positive for anthrax in New York on 12 October The seven-month-old son of an ABC News producer contracted the disease after visiting the building on 28 September Claire Fletcher, 27, assistant to CBS newsreader Dan Rather is believed to have been infected after opening a letter Johanna Huden, 30, assistant at New York Post is also believed to have been exposed to anthrax after opening a letter Post woman Teresa Heller and 35-year-old postal employee Patrick O'Donnell, work in New Jersey's Trenton area A woman in New Jersey became the first person to contract the disease who does not work in the media or the postal service
Kris Baker wrote: > Ed Lake wrote in message <3CACDB55.DA167...@newsguy.com>... > >Kris Baker wrote:
> >> Ed Lake wrote in message <3CAC711A.7C905...@newsguy.com>... > >> >J,
> >> >Okay, I corrected the information about Linda Burch. Thanks.
> >> >However, I don't agree that she falls into the same category as Kathy > >> Nguyen. > >> >Nguyen is in a category all by herself: "Unknown anthrax source". The > CDC > >> >assumed she was contaminated by a letter mailed on October 9, and that's > >> all > >> >they have investigated - getting nowhere.
> >> >I wouldn't mind if they considered and then rejected the idea that she > was > >> >contaminated by anthrax thrown into the trash from the September 18 > >> mailing, > >> >but, as far as I can tell, that idea has never even occurred to them.
> >> Why would only *one* person be infected from a letter > >> thrown into the trash, especially someone who wouldn't > >> have had any more contact with it than the thousands > >> of other passerbys? (Of course, we have to assume > >> then, that Kathy Nguyen walked by one or more of those > >> anthrax-infested places in NYC at just the right time > >> when the trash was being thrown out.) Office trash isn't > >> exactly thrown out in the streets of NYC for people to walk > >> through.
> >> Kris
> >Kris,
> >First of all, she wasn't the only person infected by a letter thrown into > the > >trash. Two people at the New York Post were infected with cutaneous > anthrax as > >a result of hunting through the trash to find the letter that they had > throw > >away - before the news had broken that someone was sending anthrax through > the > >mail. And a police officer was contaminated with anthrax when looking > through > >the trash at NBC, where he found the Tom Brokaw letter which had also been > >thrown out. That police officer then took the letter to a lab and > contaminated > >two lab technicians with it. Presumably, people at ABC and CBS also hunted > for > >the letters they had thrown out. All this happened at around the same time > as > >Kathy contracted anthrax.
> >Why did Kathy Nguyen get anthrax? She was elderly and more susceptible. > Maybe > >she happened to stand behind someone on a subway whose clothes were covered > >with anthrax? Being Vietnamese, she was probably small in size, which > would > >put her face near people's clothes. Maybe she bumped into someone at the > >hospital who was covered with anthrax? When all the employees at ABC, CBS, > NBC > >and the New York Post heard that their companies had received anthrax-laced > >letters, didn't many of them go to hospitals in a panic? Did any of them > >encounter Kathy there? Who knows?
> >The thing that has to be done is to look at what happened to that anthrax > and > >how it was disposed of, how the areas were cleaned and who cleaned them. > Then > >you can see if there is any intersection with Kathy Nguyen.
> Ed, your list of victims/circumstances is unlike anything I can > find reported anywhere. Here's from the BBC, but it's > exactly like many others:
> The victims
> Five people have been killed by the attacks. All of them were infected by > the deadliest form of the disease - inhalation anthrax.
> Journalist Bob Stevens died of respiratory anthrax
> Bob Stevens, 63, picture editor of the Sun newspaper, died on 5 October in > Boca Raton, Florida. Anthrax spores were found on his computer keyboard > Thomas Morris Jr, 55, Washington, worked at the Brentwood office which > handled an anthrax-laced letter sent to Senator Tom Daschle > Joseph Curseen, 47, worked at the same office > Kathy Nguyen, 61, worked in a New York hospital > Ottilie Lundgren, 94, lived in a rural community in Connecticut. Her case > and that of Ms Nguyen are the only ones that have not been traces to tainted > mail > Cases of inhalation anthrax
> Five people are confirmed to have contracted inhalation anthrax.
> Ernesto Blanco, 73, employed in the mail room of American Media Inc, the > group which owns the Sun newspaper > Postal worker Leroy Richmond, 57 > An unnamed colleague of his is also in hospital > Two female postal workers from the Trenton area in New Jersey, where some > anthrax-laced were sent from > Cases of skin anthrax
> Cases of skin anthrax, a less serious form of the disease in which the > bacteria enter via a cut in the skin, have been confirmed in several New > York media offices and in New Jersey.
> Claire Fletcher contracted the disease after opening a letter
> Erin O'Connor, 38, assistant to NBC anchor Tom Brokaw was the first person > to test positive for anthrax in New York on 12 October > The seven-month-old son of an ABC News producer contracted the disease after > visiting the building on 28 September > Claire Fletcher, 27, assistant to CBS newsreader Dan Rather is believed to > have been infected after opening a letter > Johanna Huden, 30, assistant at New York Post is also believed to have been > exposed to anthrax after opening a letter > Post woman Teresa Heller and 35-year-old postal employee Patrick O'Donnell, > work in New Jersey's Trenton area > A woman in New Jersey became the first person to contract the disease who > does not work in the media or the postal service
I put things in order by confirmation date. Your list is in order by type of anthrax infection. UCLA lists things in order by date reported. It's all the same data, it's just in different order.
By putting things in order by confirmation date, I tried to show how some cases of Sept. 18 anthrax were in the middle of the "second wave" of Oct. 9 cases. Too many people are looking at the "second wave" as being ALL Oct. 9 cases. And that simply is not true.
