Panel grounding
Effenpig1
panels. What grounding source is preferred/ not preferred? Any issues
with certain ground sources?
Anybody not ground their panels? Anyone have any issues with either
grounding or not grounding their panels?
Kid
"Effenpig1" <dirtysp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:44cfc7b3-4416-41ba...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
I don't ground. if one gets hit then I use one of these.
tourman
>
> This ought to be fun! This bunch never could agree on that topic.
RHC: Not just this bunch; I don't think the industry can agree on this
point. I don't ground either and in troublesome situations, I use the
same Elk isolator as the other gentleman.....
RockyTSquirrel
"tourman" <roberc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e37303c7-f18c-4e02...@k4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
mleuck
> "Effenpig1" <dirtyspicev...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
That doesn't do much after the fact :)
nick markowitz
Having an electrician back round I ground all the time and it actually
helps prevent problems when done properly.
The problem is getting a good solid ground.
of course I do commercial so I go off the electrical systems ground
wire which is code by the way and where all ,phone,catv, etc grounds
should be going and I check it first to make sure it is working
proper. I also surge protect incoming leads to panel and often put
main line surge protection on customers electrical service panels as
part of the whole package to protect all the electronics and prevent
interactions during a surge event.
Proper tied in unified grounding works excellent but too many techs
from all fields fail to follow code and you end up with a mess as
usual situation and I end up getting called in to correct problems .
Kid
"mleuck" <m.l...@tx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8193ad31-0d3d-48ab...@j19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com...
1 out of a hundred maybe gets hit. see no reason to put 99 on for no
reason.
tourman
> "mleuck" <m.le...@tx.rr.com> wrote in message
RHC: Yeah, I agree with you. I keep precise statistics on service
work. With over 1000 panels in service, I have had to replace a total
of 8 boards due to electrical surges damaging the panel in 15 years.
Had I installed the Elk grounding unit for everyone, that would have
been a cost of over $30,000 with limited payback. I prefer to spend
the extra money on upgraded keypads and upgraded pet motions for
everyone, and deal with dead panels as they happen (at $50 a pop plus
cost of a service call). This with a severe lightning strike problem
in parts of our city being a known fact as well...
BTW, two of those damaged panels were at one rural customer location,
and both within a week of each other. I guess the telephone company
plant was poorly grounded. This was early on, and It took me twice to
learn....:((
Kid
RHC: Yeah, I agree with you. I keep precise statistics on service
work. With over 1000 panels in service, I have had to replace a total
of 8 boards due to electrical surges damaging the panel in 15 years.
Had I installed the Elk grounding unit for everyone, that would have
been a cost of over $30,000 with limited payback. I prefer to spend
the extra money on upgraded keypads and upgraded pet motions for
everyone, and deal with dead panels as they happen (at $50 a pop plus
cost of a service call). This with a severe lightning strike problem
in parts of our city being a known fact as well...
BTW, two of those damaged panels were at one rural customer location,
and both within a week of each other. I guess the telephone company
plant was poorly grounded. This was early on, and It took me twice to
learn....:((
I have a customer that had been hit twice before I put the elk unit on. his
house is on a granite outcrop and he apparently can.t get a very good
ground. on the third hit the elk unit blew out knocking out the phone line.
but the panel board was ok. all I had to do was replace the elk unit. not
much difference between the price of the elk unit and a new board, though.
made me wonder if it was really worth it but it was easier to replace the
elk unit than rewire a new board. if the panel was like the old moose where
you could just pop a board on without touching the wiring I might think
twice.
nick markowitz
> "tourman" <robercampb...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Im dealing with commercial fire and high end combo fire/burg panels
and the panels have to work its a life safety issue
and we get plenty of lightning and high wind storms, brown outs ,
poles hit etc here in Pa. so the protection is well worth it $25.00 to
save upwards of several thousand dollars.
Have customers who had direct hits and there buildings were saved as
well as vast majority of equipment was saved Vs other buildings hit
around here that went up in flames go figure.
It is just like the $100.00- 3 phase power protectors I install on
machines etc which saves thousands of dollars in motor replacement.
tourman
RHC: I don't disagree with you Nick. It's just like everything else in
business....it's cost versus gain. Your life saving situations are
precisely where any and all protection is worth every penny. But for
"low end" residential systems, where every nickel spent is under
question by the customer, it might even "break" the sale !!!! It's not
cost effective in these situations to do so from any perspective when
so few systems are affected.....
Kid
plus there is no quarantee when it comes to lightening. it can just as
easily blow out the protection and the panel.
nick markowitz
Another reason i do not do residential.
no money in it.
lets see do 20 residential systems to make what i do on high end
integrated commercial real tough one there.
nick markowitz
You think residential a tough sell now wait till they cost of
sprinklers and all breakers have to be arc fault style at $40.00 a pop
plus new energy insulation standards including a vacuum test all come
into effect in next 2 years they will not be building homes any more.
Effenpig1
I guess that depends on how you look at it. You could also spin it to
say you could do 20 small residential systems in the same time it
takes to do one high end integrated commercial system, and collect RMR
from all 20 of those accounts indefinitely.
But for me the choice is easy since their is virtually no demand for
high end commercial systems in my service area.
I have a hard time believing that you would convince any small, mostly
residential/light commercial dealer with a decent number of accounts
that there is " no money in it ". I guess it would all depend on each
individuals perception how much money "no money" is.
Jim
>
> > RHC: I don't disagree with you Nick. It's just like everything else in
> > business....it's cost versus gain. Your life saving situations are
> > precisely where any and all protection is worth every penny. But for
> > "low end" residential systems, where every nickel spent is under
> > question by the customer, it might even "break" the sale !!!! It's not
> > cost effective in these situations to do so from any perspective when
> > so few systems are affected.....
>
> > plus there is no quarantee when it comes to lightening. �it can just as
> > easily blow out the protection and the panel.
>
> Another reason i do not do residential.
> no money in it.
> lets see do 20 residential systems to make what i do on high end
> integrated commercial real tough one there.-
Well Nick, there's just some people who can't take the bureacratic BS
that comes along with the commercial side of this trade. I'd much
rather use my extensive snaking and technical know how in Home
Theater, computer networking, CCTV, Home Automation, Cable and
Satilite TV hookups, Whole house audio, and all the other little
gadgets that people want today ..... where it's truly appreciated and
I can smile at the integration I've devised to make everything work.
Commercial gets me too close to the do-nothing assholes who are in
positions of authority, who get to tell you what to do even though
they don't know a damn thing about what you do. I have a tendency to
tell them to shove their rules they've made up, for no other reason
but to insure their jobs ..... right up their collective fat asses.
But .... there's a place for everyone. If it wasn't for people like
you with the tolerance for those sort of things, the bureacrats
wouldn't have a thing to do. That is .... less than the little they do
now.
And I wouldn't have to deal with the irate house wife who doesn't want
to take the time to learn how to use a TV remote control or an alarm
keypad and blames me for it.
Effenpig1
I guess it really all comes down to the market in the area you
service. "You think residential is tough to sell now"? Not where I
live. . Plus most builders in my area, especially those who sub out
the wiring to electrical contractors, have been installing arc-fault
breakers for some time now. An average home around here might have 10
to 15 receptacle circuits, assuming a standard single pole breaker
costs an average of $5, and an arc fault $40, that means an increase
of $350 to $525. Not a huge difference on a $100,000+ purchase. In
addition many builders here already voluntarily do the vacuum test
because the resulting energy rating is a bonus when selling the home.
nick markowitz
> money both installs and service plus I offer services no one else can
> on the integration end . Since I am cross trained in electronics ,
> electrician and refrigeration
> I can offer some very unique designed systems.
> I could step away from alarms today and make money selling telco/data
> services, commercial sound /paging and intercom ,electrical/trouble
> shooting services and electrical mechanical design services you
> should see the custom built 12/24 DC and 220/480 VAC control systems
> I build for people.
> and never touch an alarm panel. Plus I am a Broadcast engineer i
> could just work in that field full time if i wanted to.
> I was fortunate enough 30 yrs ago to see the steel mills were going
> down around here so I went to every trade school and class i could get
> my hands on I figured this way i would always have work which was a
> good thing.
> Alarms are just part of the services I can offer a customer. So I do
> not go out and bid against alarm company's customers come looking for
> me because the custom work I can do that no one else can. Yet idiots
> around here think I am stealing work from them when it is work they
> can not do. I am not even in the phone book and do not advertise.
>
> Ask Al Colombo from SSI Magazine he has seen a lot of my stuff.
Your right about some inspectors. most of the ones I work with know
the code and we work together .
to meet the code .
the ones who are assholes get reported to the state.
Effenpig1
> On Dec 13, 6:50 pm, Effenpig1 <dirtyspicev...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> money both installs and service plus I offer services no one else can
> on the integration end . Since I am cross trained in electronics ,
> electrician and refrigeration
> I can offer some very unique designed systems.
> I could step away from alarms today and make money selling telco/data
> services, commercial sound /paging and intercom ,electrical/trouble
> shooting services and electrical mechanical design services you
> should see the custom built 12/24 DC and 220/480 VAC control systems
> I build for people.
> and never touch an alarm panel. Plus I am a Broadcast engineer i
> could just work in that field full time if i wanted to.
> I was fortunate enough 30 yrs ago to see the steel mills were going
> down around here so I went to every trade school and class i could get
> my hands on I figured this way i would always have work which was a
> good thing.
> Alarms are just part of the services I can offer a customer. So I do
> not go out and bid against alarm company's customers come looking for
> me because the custom work I can do that no one else can. Yet idiots
> around here think I am stealing work from them when it is work they
> can not do. I am not even in the phone book and do not advertise.
>
> Ask Al Colombo from SSI Magazine he has seen a lot of my stuff.
Well, that's great for you, BUT, the only things I have mastered so
far are tying my shoes and installing alarm systems, so I guess I'm
screwed.
Actually, I worked as an electrician from 18-15 and in alarm systems
from 25-31 so I guess I could always fall back on electrical if I had
to. But I've said it before and I'll say it again, maybe I'm an RMR
whore, but if it doesn't produce RMR I don't see the point in doing
it.
How did we get here from panel grounding?
tourman
RHC: Oh, don't worry about it.... this is the norm in this newsgroup
of straying off the original topic. Just about every thread goes off
topic after most everything constructive has been said about the
original topic; then it degenerates quickly with one or two people
sniping at one or two others, and it's a downhill spiral from
there.....only solution I've found is to ignore the balance of the
thread after it starts to go south. You know it's definately "over"
when RLB receives a shot or two.....:))
Effenpig1
But he hasn't been around lately, so everything should be happy,
flowers,puppies and kittens and all that, right?
Effenpig1
BTW, I wasn't complaining about the thread straying off topic, I enjoy
and legitimate discussion or stories related to the industry. I have
spent some time on some DIY forum and I generally answer questions,
not ask them. I believe there are people here with a huge amount of
knowledge about the industry and since I certainly don't know it all
(not even close), it's nice to be able to "ask" the questions instead
of answer them. Unless it turns into what I believe you refer to as a
"flame" war ? Ha, ha, Seriously, I really appreciate any input or
discussion whether on or "off" topic.
mleuck
>
> RHC: Oh, don't worry about it.... this is the norm in this newsgroup
> of straying off the original topic. Just about every thread goes off
> topic after most everything constructive has been said about the
> original topic; then it degenerates quickly with one or two people
> sniping at one or two others, and it's a downhill spiral from
> there.....only solution I've found is to ignore the balance of the
> thread after it starts to go south. You know it's definately "over"
> when RLB receives a shot or two.....:))
It also begins when RLB gives a shot or two
nick markowitz
>
> - Show quoted text -
RMR is a good thing but if you do not back it up with service then the
checks disapear.
I had a couple cancelations with the economy but I knowothers who have
gotten hit hard from it and now there in a fix becuse they depend on
RMR
tourman
RHC: The degree of attrition due to the economy has more to do with
people simply taking a look at their ongoing expenses and deciding
their alarm monitoring is not worth what they are paying, either
because of too high a price relative to what the local market is
offering for the same thing, or because they think back to the last
time they requested service, and were not happy for whatever reason.
They may also not be using their alarm regulariy and this forces them
to decide it's an unnecessary expense. Being further restricted by a
long term commitment serves only to make them shop around a bit more
in anticipation of being able to leave after the contract is up, which
in turn doesn't allow the original company much "wiggle room" to
negotiate when the term is up. It's all about service; keep them happy
and they are far less likely to leave you when they can.
But even that situation is not all "black and white".....we'll all
lose some...that's life !
Jim
>
> RHC: The degree of attrition due to the economy has more to do with
> people simply taking a look at their ongoing expenses and deciding
> their alarm monitoring is not worth what they are paying, either
> because of too high a price relative to what the local market is
> offering for the same thing, or because they think back to the last
> time they requested service, and were not happy for whatever reason.
> They may also not be using their alarm regulariy and this forces them
> to decide it's an unnecessary expense. Being further restricted by a
> long term commitment serves only to make them shop around a bit more
> in anticipation of being able to leave after the contract is up, which
> in turn doesn't allow the original company much "wiggle room" to
> negotiate when the term is up. It's all about service; keep them happy
> and they are far less likely to leave you when they can.
And, of course, one can always have the best of both worlds by
providing exemplary service AND have long term contracts.
>
> But even that situation is not all "black and white".....we'll all
> lose some...that's life !
I've lost a few in the last year. If they can't or don't want to
afford it any longer, that's ok with me. I wouldn't hold anyone to a
contract for that kind of reason. Most of the time I'll get a call
saying they want to stop the monitoring for one reason or another or
because they're not using it and I always tell them to consider the
fact that they will no longer have a panic or fire alarm notification
to authorities either. I also ask them to check with their homeowers
insurance first to see how much their payments are going to increase
when they get notified of cancelation of their alarm monitoring. Most
of the time it's just about an even wash, so they keep the monitoring
service.
I've got a few right now that I'm monitoring free of charge for
various hardship issues. One's teenage daugher has cancer, spending
thousands on treatments. Another, the husband has cancer and has been
out of work for months. Elderly couple, wife dying of Lou Gherigs.
Couple of elderly people who just can't afford it anymore.
Whadda ya gonna do? Cut them off?
Effenpig1
I would think RMR would not differ from any other income in this
matter. If one were to live paycheck to paycheck on a $100,000 salary,
and then get a paycut down to $50,000, they would be in trouble. But I
would find it hard to believe that someone would consider a $100,000
salary a bad thing because of this. As far as the economy and it's
relation to RMR, I would think that a slow economy would likely affect
new business more so than existing customers, meaning a service based
business relying on new customers would be more likely to feel the
slowdown than one relying on existing customers.
tourman
RHC: Yeah, like everybody, I have lost a few due to economic
hardships. Like you, I advise them to check with their insurance
company, but I also let them know in writing their warranty and
service disappear with the end of the monitoring (since it's bundled
together). I then send them a registered letter for my own protection,
giving them a month, and stating the date when monitoring services
will cease. I also have a clause in my contract that states my company
decals must be removed when the monitoring stops, and I enforce it.
Since they are always external decals, if they don't remove them, I
do. This may seem harsh, but I want nothing to do with "local"
systems; I don't believe they are more than a toy, and if this makes
me an "RMR whore" so be it. Companies like ADT may see decals
plastered on homes without monitoring as just another way to get cheap
advertising but it does in certain ways, cheapen the worth of your
company if there's no response backing up your system.
I too have a few hardship cases. The only difficulty I found was
wording the offer in such a way that the client didn't feel like he
was receiving charity....
tourman
RHC: I guess I'm luckier than most in some ways. The area I service is
the capitol city of Ottawa, and it's filled with highly paid
government workers who's jobs are safe compared to the average man on
the street. Also, housing is still booming here, unlike everywhere
else in North America (government towns tend to be isolated in many
ways from reality). Honestly, I cannot keep up with the demand for new
service through referrals and my website. Other small dealers I know
are in the same boat. I have to artificially restrict myself to two
installations a week and leave the balance of the week open for other
business related activities. And frankly, my son and I are fast
approaching the "second glass ceiling" where if we go over about 1200
accounts, we will need another person. And I do NOT want this to
happen ( I know Jim...don't say it...:)) So I've started cutting back
on "takeovers" since these usually create an inordinate amount of
service work over time.
I have to really think this one out because I have about five good
years left in me for installs, and I don't want this to ever stop
being a "family business". So I have some hard choices ahead of me. I
have a buyer who has for years been trying to get my accounts (at a
superb multiple I should say). However, I don't like that idea either.
Plus, I've just been diagnosed with very early prostate cancer, so
treatment may take away from time allotted for installs.
I guess relative to some in our industry, my position is not all that
bad...
Jim
>
> RHC: I guess I'm luckier than most in some ways. The area I service is
> the capitol city of Ottawa, and it's filled with highly paid
> government workers who's jobs are safe compared to the average man on
> the street. Also, housing is still booming here, unlike everywhere
> else in North America (government towns tend to be isolated in many
> ways from reality). Honestly, I cannot keep up with the demand for new
> service through referrals and my website. Other small dealers I know
> are in the same boat. I have to artificially restrict myself to two
> installations a week and leave the balance of the week open for other
> business related activities. And frankly, my son and I are fast
> approaching the "second glass ceiling" where if we go over about 1200
> accounts, we will need another person. And I do NOT want this to
> happen ( I know Jim...don't say it...:))
Wellllll .....ok. But you know the sentiment is still there.
>So I've started cutting back
> on "takeovers" since these usually create an inordinate amount of
> service work over time.
>
> I have to really think this one out because I have about five good
> years left in me for installs, and I don't want this to ever stop
> being a "family business". So I have some hard choices ahead of me. I
> have a buyer who has for years been trying to get my accounts (at a
> superb multiple I should say). However, I don't like that idea either.
> Plus, I've just been diagnosed with very early prostate cancer, so
> treatment may take away from time allotted for installs.
Sorry to hear that.
Early stage is good, however.
Lots of new treatment methods being used with excellent results.
Get lots of opinions for all the options and keep copies of all .....
and I mean ALL your tests and reports.
I'm just giving you advice that my wife gives all of her breast
cancer patients.
Chances are in your favor.
tourman
RHC: Thanks....I caught it purely by chance, and at it's earliest
stages. The team of doctors at the Ottawa Cancer Centre are super, and
the whole team have given me all the options, one of which is do
nothing and "wait and watch". Its called a 25 year killer, which would
put me at 90 years of age...(about 15 years before I plant to
retire...:)). All test scores are very low, but after I return from
Florida, I do plan to start some sort of treatment in April.
Surprisingly, knowing I have it has only been an irritant, rather than
a scare, because it might slow me down slightly during treatment
(about two months). At the moment, I have no doubt I'll beat
it.....nor would I ever think otherwise...
I guess this is where I start to feel I get something for the huge
amount of taxes I pay the government every year. You can't have "free"
health care and not pay the piper (just like in our business...)
mleuck
>
> I guess this is where I start to feel I get something for the huge
> amount of taxes I pay the government every year. You can't have "free"
> health care and not pay the piper (just like in our business...)
Tell that to the fools down here, they are discussing it right now
motley me
989cb0...@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com:
> Plus, I've just been diagnosed with very early prostate cancer, so
> treatment may take away from time allotted for installs.
>
Hate to hear that Bob. I am glad that you caught it early.
tourman
> tourman <robercampb...@gmail.com> wrote in news:b60ba1ad-7aaf-40e6-bc5a-
> 989cb08cc...@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Plus, I've just been diagnosed with very early prostate cancer, so
> > treatment may take away from time allotted for installs.
>
> Hate to hear that Bob. I am glad that you caught it early.
RHC: Thanks....I'm reminded of that old saying.." you don't always get
what you deserve; you just get what you get...". I take part every
year in a motorcycle Ride for Dad to raise money for prostate cancer
research. This has been a real eye opener. I've learned that 2 out of
every 7 men will get prostate cancer sometime in their lifetime.
However, death usually comes primarily because men (being men) refuse
to get checked out for this disease, so by the time it's finally
discovered, it has spread elsewhere, and can't be treated. A quick PSA
blood test every year is a simple, effective first sign indicator of
the disease. Then an ultrasound can check further, followed by a
biopsy if there is any question. Speaking from experience, none of
these things are very onerous.
If you're over 50, and have a history of prostate cancer anywhere
within your family chain, get checked out. I did, and it may have
saved my life
(rant mode "off")
G. Morgan
<roberc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>If you're over 50, and have a history of prostate cancer anywhere
>within your family chain, get checked out. I did, and it may have
>saved my life
I'll be 40 soon and I think I have some prostate issues. Every time I
see a commercial for the meds. I'm like "yup, I get up and pee a lot",
and all the other items on the checklist match too.
But I do that for all the commercials I see, I may be a hypochondriac.
I wonder if there is a pill for that?
tourman
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 07:18:21 -0800 (PST), tourman
>
> >If you're over 50, and have a history of prostate cancer anywhere
> >within your family chain, get checked out. I did, and it may have
> >saved my life
>
> I'll be 40 soon and I think I have some prostate issues. Every time I
> see a commercial for the meds. I'm like "yup, I get up and pee a lot",
> and all the other items on the checklist match too.
>
> But I do that for all the commercials I see, I may be a hypochondriac.
> I wonder if there is a pill for that?
RHC: What you are describing may be a simple case of enlarged
prostate, a normal condition with age. This can easily be treated by
your doctor with prescription medications like Flomax or Proscar. This
doesn't mean you have prostate cancer; it just means your are getting
older. These drugs will shrink the prostate allowing you a decent
night's sleep without your haveing to get up to go to the can every
couple of hours. However, while you're seeing your doc, make sure he
does a simple PSA blood test for prostate cancer.
Catch it early and it can be cured fairly easily. Catch it late and
you die.....almost guaranteed !
It's also much more of a dangerous disease in younger men (under 50)
for some reason (maybe because you still have more years left under
your belt....). However, they also say, just about every man dies with
it; you just want to make sure you don't die because of it...
G. Morgan
<roberc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>It's also much more of a dangerous disease in younger men (under 50)
>for some reason (maybe because you still have more years left under
>your belt....). However, they also say, just about every man dies with
>it; you just want to make sure you don't die because of it...
Well, thanks for the info. Next time I go in for a exam I will ask
for that "PSA" test.
In the meantime, you focus on getting those nasty C-cells out and stay
healthy. I'm glad you caught it in time.
RockyTSquirrel
I waited 60 days and did the same test, same lab, same doctor, this time
they said negative..
One year later the same test, same doctor, same lab, same negative
results.
I'd suggest like tourman, have the test, but take with a grain of salt
the results..
RTS
"tourman" <roberc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6e6300c9-e09d-42bf...@r24g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
mleuck
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 07:18:21 -0800 (PST), tourman
>
> >If you're over 50, and have a history of prostate cancer anywhere
> >within your family chain, get checked out. I did, and it may have
> >saved my life
>
> I'll be 40 soon and I think I have some prostate issues. Every time I
> see a commercial for the meds. I'm like "yup, I get up and pee a lot",
> and all the other items on the checklist match too.
Me thinks you sometimes share too much information about yourself...
G. Morgan
wrote:
>Me thinks you sometimes share too much information about yourself...
You are entitled to your opinion. I'm not the first one to share a
little medical info here. In fact I have a pretty good inkling about
most of the froups participant's health status, because we all like to
bitch about getting old and shit.
Had I not mentioned it I might not have known about the PSA test
though. So it theory, until I get the test, he may be saving my life.
So there, cocksucker.
G. Morgan
<gafa@/nospam/usa.com> wrote:
>i did the blood test and they said positive.
>I waited 60 days and did the same test, same lab, same doctor, this time
>they said negative..
>One year later the same test, same doctor, same lab, same negative
>results.
>
>I'd suggest like tourman, have the test, but take with a grain of salt
>the results..
Will do. I wonder why you got a false-positive? I don't like
unreliable tests.
mleuck doesn't think we should be talking about this matter. I
disagree. Changed to topic again.
Effenpig1
> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 16:12:09 -0800 (PST), mleuck <m.le...@tx.rr.com>
Cocksucker? Them there are fightin' words.
G. Morgan
<dirtysp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Cocksucker? Them there are fightin' words.
Nah, he's used to it.
RockyTSquirrel
diet or food intake..
causing body chems to change..
RTS
"G. Morgan" <usenet...@gawab.com> wrote in message
news:2qsqi5t6t8ku0ujn4...@4ax.com...
Petem
"G. Morgan" <usenet...@gawab.com> a �crit dans le message de groupe de
discussion : i0hqi55ou16frp07l...@4ax.com...
No there are no pills for that, but there is a cure..
Its something that most if not all people do all day long..
To cure yourslf of that problem, one simple thing..
Stop breathing, if you are really serious about it you will never have any
problem with pills commercials, we all know how it was difficult to you to
quit on cialis and viagra last year ;-)
Me I tried it, but I dont seem to have the capacity to do it all the way, or
I do it wrong, cause after about 2 minute I feel like I am suffocating, and
take a deep breath..
Look like I will have the bad habit of breathing till I die..
tourman
RHC: The PSA test is not a 100% reliable test. Sometimes one can have
a high PSA and not have prostate cancer. However, in MOST cases, for
MOST people, a higher than normal PSA reading is something that should
tell them to go get further checked out. My PSA was always low,
because the Proscar I was taking for enlarged prostate artificially
lowers the reading, yet further tests caught the cancer. It's a
nothing test really, and the doctor can guide you from there, taking
into consideration your age and your family history. Without it you
simply know nothing; with it, you know a little more, which can then
indicate if further followup is necessary. All these tests are simply
indicators of things. The final test - the biopsy - is the only sure
indicator. But why the hell wait....
One of the things I learned about this disease over the years in
running in the Ride for Dad national prostate cancer motorcycle run,
is that ignorance is the biggest killer of all. If all men got checked
out once a year, thousands and thousands of deaths could be prevented.
But men for some reason, just don't run off to the doctor on a whim.
So they don't catch it until it spreads to other organs where it can't
as easily be treated. Left too long, it can enter the lymphatic system
and be pumped all over the body.....
At that point, you can bend over and kiss your ass goodbye
Petem
"mleuck" <m.l...@tx.rr.com> a �crit dans le message de groupe de discussion
: 8b57fe10-e968-4e62...@k9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
Did you ever see him in a spandex pant ,showing up all his manhood stuff??
that would be way too much info..
wait!!! did anyone here did that once?
Jim
Is there a cure for that?
mleuck
> "mleuck" <m.le...@tx.rr.com> a écrit dans le message de groupe de discussion
> : 8b57fe10-e968-4e62-bcdd-d64f41e3d...@k9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Dec 19, 3:26 pm, G. Morgan <usenet_ab...@gawab.com> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 07:18:21 -0800 (PST), tourman
>
> >> <robercampb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >If you're over 50, and have a history of prostate cancer anywhere
> >> >within your family chain, get checked out. I did, and it may have
> >> >saved my life
>
> >> I'll be 40 soon and I think I have some prostate issues. Every time I
> >> see a commercial for the meds. I'm like "yup, I get up and pee a lot",
> >> and all the other items on the checklist match too.
>
> > Me thinks you sometimes share too much information about yourself...
>
> Did you ever see him in a spandex pant ,showing up all his manhood stuff??
> that would be way too much info..
>
> wait!!! did anyone here did that once?
I see English is still a problem for you
Frank Olson
Actually, I think Mark's picture would make a great incentive to service
techs that get too many tickets. You could tell them the new uniform
goes with the new vehicle they'll be driving for service if they get one
more ticket. :-)
mleuck
<use_the_email_li...@yoursecuritysource.com> wrote:
>
> Actually, I think Mark's picture would make a great incentive to service
> techs that get too many tickets.
And apparently give you and Petem something to drool over
Jim
<use_the_email_li...@yoursecuritysource.com> wrote:
> Petem wrote:
>
> > "mleuck" <m.le...@tx.rr.com> a �crit dans le message de groupe de
> > discussion :
> > 8b57fe10-e968-4e62-bcdd-d64f41e3d...@k9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Dec 19, 3:26 pm, G. Morgan <usenet_ab...@gawab.com> wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 07:18:21 -0800 (PST), tourman
>
> >>> <robercampb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >If you're over 50, and have a history of prostate cancer anywhere
> >>> >within your family chain, get checked out. I did, and it may have
> >>> >saved my life
>
> >>> I'll be 40 soon and I think I have some prostate issues. �Every time I
> >>> see a commercial for the meds. I'm like "yup, I get up and pee a lot",
> >>> and all the other items on the checklist match too.
>
> >> Me thinks you sometimes share too much information about yourself...
>
> > Did you ever see him in a spandex pant ,showing up all his manhood
> > stuff?? that would be way too much info..
>
> > wait!!! did anyone here did that once?
>
> Actually, I think Mark's picture would make a great incentive to service
> techs that get too many tickets. �You could tell them the new uniform
> goes with the new vehicle they'll be driving for service if they get one
I don't think it would be wise for just anyone to make that policy.
If it turned out that they all intentionally got tickets, one could
conclude that the alarm company must be doing business in the Village
section of Manhattan or in San Francisco.
Frank Olson
Youza!!!! ;-)
Hope you have a great Christmas, Mark!!
Robert L Bass
>
> ...I've just been diagnosed with very
> early prostate cancer, so treatment
> may take away from time allotted
How early? Did they say what Gleason grade you're at? If
it's less than 5 when they caught it, the prognosis is way
better ... typically full recovery.
There are several things that tell you how good/bad prostate
cancer is. If the doctor found it with the finger waive, it
means the tumor is "palpable," larger than if it was only
found because of an elevated PSA (blood test). Ask him what
the Stage is AND the Gleason score. Together those things
tell you a lot more than descriptive stuff like "it's
early."
Whatever it is, I'm praying for you, Bob. Glad it's early.
All the best,
Robert
Robert L Bass
>
> G wrote:
>> mleuck doesn't think we should be
> talking about this
Ignore him.
> One of the things I learned about this
> disease over the years in running in
> the Ride for Dad national prostate
> cancer motorcycle run, is that ignorance
> is the biggest killer of all...
Exactly. That is true of virtually every type of cancer,
really.
> If all men got checked out once a
> year, thousands and thousands of
> deaths could be prevented. But
> men for some reason, just don't
> run off to the doctor on a whim.
It's likely mostly embarrassment combined with ignorance.
No one likes the exam but it can save your life.
> So they don't catch it until it spreads
> to other organs where it can't as
> easily be treated. Left too long, it can
> enter the lymphatic system and be
> pumped all over the body.....
>
> At that point, you can bend over and
> kiss your ass goodbye...
Which is a whole lot worse than a finger. :^)
All the best,
Robert
mleuck
> "tourman" wrote:
>
> > G wrote:
> >> mleuck doesn't think we should be
> > talking about this
>
> Ignore him.
I have no issue with Mr Campbell because he didn't become a drama
queen and report on his current health every 5 minutes
He does however have an unhealthy fixation about ADT and the fact he's
a Canadian
Jim
>
> > At that point, you can bend over and
> > kiss your ass goodbye...
>
> Which is a whole lot worse than a finger. �:^)
>
Yeah,but even so, who would want to kiss a finger after it had been up
there anyway?
tourman
RHC: Thank you Bob !
Gleason score 6, T1c category....one core cancerous out of 10 taken.
Although the real stuff starts in April, one of the options they are
considering is Active Surveillance, since they feel things are at a
very early stage. However, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with doing
nothing given that cancerous cells can be microscopic, and spread to
other organs in an undetectable fashion until it is too late. Probably
going to go for standard radiation or brachytherapy. PSA is less than
4.0, but this may be due to the effects of Proscar (to shrink an
enlarged prostate).
Kinda up in the air at this point, but I'm not going to even think
about it until April. I can honestly say this hasn't cost me even one
moment of sleep. I refuse to worry about something that is, and with a
little luck, can be cured. Even if they can't, I'm not going to go
through life worried sick about something that is being treated as
well as it can be, and to date, hasn't had one physical effect on my
life.
Life really is too short....
Robert L Bass
>
> Gleason score 6, T1c category....one
That is one more core than you need. I agree with you.
Deal with it aggressively and soon. You're still young and
otherwise healthy. My uncle has just finished (or is just
about to finish, I'm not sure) his radiation series and it
was fairly easy. It just made him tired. He's had very few
side effects at all.
Whatever you do, I know that God is with you and so are your
friends. I consider myself fortunate to be one of them.
> Kinda up in the air at this point, but I'm
> not going to even think about it until
> April. I can honestly say this hasn't
> cost me even one moment of sleep. I
> refuse to worry about something that is,
> and with a little luck, can be cured....
There's no such thing as luck, Robert. There is work, there
are gifts and there are miracles. You and your doctor will
do the work. Discovering this early was a gift. The rest
of us will pray and God is responsible for the the miracle.
> Even if they can't, I'm not going to go
> through life worried sick about something
> that is being treated as well as it can be,
> and to date, hasn't had one physical
> effect on my life.
I feel the same way. My situation is different in that my
cancer is medically incurable and treatment is no longer of
any use. But I'm at peace with what is happening to me.
I've made peace with Jesus and I've done my part regarding
anyone or any thing I fealt responsible for. My life is in
His hands and there is no better place for it to be.
> Life really is too short....
True, but all eternity is before us. That's not so bad.
:^)
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
==============================>
Bass Home Electronics
DIY Alarm and Home Automation Store
http://www.basshome.com
Sales & Service 941-870-2310
Fax 941-870-3252
==============================>
Robert L Bass
>
> Yeah,but even so, who would want to kiss
> a finger after it had been up there anyway?
Oooh, ick! :|
tourman
> No one likes the exam but it can save your life.
RHC: The digital rectal exam is not all that bad actually. I'm told
you should only worry if you feel both the doctors hands on your
shoulders at the same time.....:))
tourman
> friends. I consider myself fortunate to be one of them.
RHC: I thank you; that is most gracious of you.I too value your
friendship