Andersen tilt wash double hung windows - photos
Tim Duckworth
close-up photos of the windows at www.duck24.com/anderson. As advised I
bought a 5 pack of recessed Sentrol R1125's (3/4" x 3/8" sensor + 1/8"
Mini-Max (aka rare earth) magnets. I also bought a 5 pack of surface mount
Ademco 943's (mini-surface mount) just incase I decided against drilling the
window. I'm now looking to get on with the installation.
I'm a little nervous drilling the vinyl sills though. Is there definitely
nothing under the vinyl except the wood I can see and that I should simply
drill through the vinyl and on through the wood sill?
One suggestion was to mount the sensor & magnet on the side of the window so
there's only one maintenance area - how should this be done?
(btw the recessed rare earch magnets didn't ship with the sensors - I hope
to get these ASAP)
Regards, Tim
-----------------------------------------------------------
Hmmm
(see below)
"Tim Duckworth" <t...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:oy2Q8.7$2R.31834882@IConNet...
> So for Anderson windows:
>
> Installing magnet:
> - Remove the weather strip along the bottom edge of the lower sash.
I'm not sure wht type of weatherstrip you're getting with these- is it bulb?
Don't remove w/s from bottom of window-
Drill 'through' the weatherstrip
By placing the 'contact point' carefully you will end up with a tad (very
damn little) of the w/s on the room side of your drill hole and a bit more
on the weatherside
> - Drill 3/8" deep hole
Could be less, depending on the rare earth magnet you use- I've seen these
1/4"
> - Insert rare earth magnet
Glue (dab) magnet, then screw
The glue is to seal the drill hole, hold the magnet, add a little
weatherseal
Screws that come with rare earths are a little skinny and sometimes too long
Again, with magnet in hand go to a hardware store and find screws that
exactly fit the magnet. Get stainless or brass-
> - Glue & screw in place
> - Q1: What sort of glue?
Acrylic 25 yr. (bathtub) I love the stuff, it grips good doesn't shrink or
get stiff.
(I never use RTV. Some do. It hardens from the outside in.)
> - Q2: Is there already a hole drilled through the magnet for a small
screw?
'almost always' depends on the brand of magnets (there are square ones,
etc.)
> - Replace weather strip.
If you go this route- then sure. As I wrote above you don't have to. But
regardless, only remove the w/s to the drill area, no sense removing it from
the entire bottom of the window.
>
> Installing sensor:
> - As per original post but basically place the sensor under the PVC window
> sill.
NEVER place a sensor in such a way it can not be removed- everything fails
sometime.
By 'over drilling' (a 5/8" bit) a tad you can countersink your sensor 1/8"
and cover it with silicone the same color as your sill/sash. Very smooth and
clean.
> Q3: Should I use "wide-gap" sensors to make sure the rare earth magnet is
> detected through the glue + weather strip + PVC window sill?
On windows, even Andersons, warpage is a possibility. Houses move if even a
little. I always use wide gaps in windows and doors- ALWAYS.
> Q4: How to I alarm the top sash?
>
Do you have attic above the windows? If so, then drill straight up.
If not then drill the frame prior to installing window trim and route the
wire from the upper 'side' of the window (the contact does not have to go on
the top) down to follow the wire from the lower window.
Depending on how much access room you have for to tie the contact to the
wires you might consider 'terminals.' These are just contacts with screw
holes for the end of the wires.
There are lots good methods for joining wires to contacts/terminals. I'll
leave this for another thread.
Two important points when working with windows:
weather sealant,
future service (if even 20 years from now)
Jake-
Jake
frame. Look behind this channel- if extruded vinyl then you should be able
to "glue*" the sensor immediately adjacent to the channel- --
(top view)
| |
contact here - - -> |[ { } < - - - -magnet here
| |
| |
{} is the side of the window
I have drilled many 'through' the side channel, but you want to keep from
'violating' this for warranty purposes (as I understand it)
The bottom sill will be tough if you go that way- my memories of Anderson
clads is that you have a 7/8" piece of wood stock under the clad (this could
be wrong on your windows, your may be different)
((hate to tell you this- you AIN'T no photographer))
The top sill appears to present similar problems.
________________
| |
| |
| | <----- top contact
==============
| | <------bottom contact
| |
|_______________ |
Whether you drill ""through"" or not, I recommend scrutinizing the side
channel. If this will work for you then your inside side-trim needs to be
left off until your system is thoroughly tested.
This puts both wires near each other for an up (attic) or down
(basement/lower floor) access
*Don't use RTV, whether silicone or not, you want the contact to 'bond' a
little to the vinyl
I hope this makes sense
Jake-
"Tim Duckworth" <t...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:uhiavk1...@corp.supernews.com...
Alarminex
<t...@nospam.com> writes:
>Subject: Andersen tilt wash double hung windows - photos
>From: "Tim Duckworth" <t...@nospam.com>
>Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 22:49:40 -0400
>
>Following on from Jakes tips on installing recessed magnets I've taken six
>close-up photos of the windows at www.duck24.com/anderson. As advised I
>bought a 5 pack of recessed Sentrol R1125's (3/4" x 3/8" sensor + 1/8"
>Mini-Max (aka rare earth) magnets. I also bought a 5 pack of surface mount
>Ademco 943's (mini-surface mount) just incase I decided against drilling the
>window. I'm now looking to get on with the installation.
>
>I'm a little nervous drilling the vinyl sills though. Is there definitely
>nothing under the vinyl except the wood I can see and that I should simply
>drill through the vinyl and on through the wood sill?
>
>One suggestion was to mount the sensor & magnet on the side of the window so
>there's only one maintenance area - how should this be done?
>
>(btw the recessed rare earch magnets didn't ship with the sensors - I hope
>to get these ASAP)
>
>Regards, Tim
>
Hi Tim
Great pic's but really this could be any of a number of Andersen windows. I
don't know if you are aware or not, but if you look in the bottom corner of the
glass you will see an Andersen logo along with a part number. To see what's
exactly on your windows you can go to the Andersenwindows.com web site and look
at the cross section and joining information on the particular model of window
that you have. Although your pic's are very good there's no way to tell about
all the windows in your home. Particularly where you have multiple windows
joined together. Joining (multiple windows together) usually involves some type
of metal plate or angle that is either installed at the factory or by the
window installer. So it's up to you to know where to look for them, depending
upon your window configuration and model, before you start drilling. Generally
you'll be safe by drilling in the center of the sill but you may not necessarly
always find that convenient or desireable. Try to find a generally common
location on the majority of your windows and let the odd ones .... just be
drilled a little to the left or right, etc.
With regard to the surface mount method of the contacts...... if you have the
windows I "think" you have, .... surface mounting the contacts on the
side of the window would mean the switch would have to be mounted on the
beveled edge of the edge of the track. You would have to depend on double sided
tape to hold them in place and would have to drill a small ( 1/8 or 3/32) hole
for the wire, into the beveled edge moulding
Earlier I had made a suggestion about mounting the surface mount contacts in a
"groove" at the bottom of the sill, but as I see from your photos, you don't
have the model window that has this "groove".
To me, your only choice is to use the recessed contacts in the sill. Both upper
and lower.
The awkward part is drilling the sash without ruining the weather stripping.
Eveyone has their own method but this is how I would do it. Since the most
critical part is the locating of the magnet on the sash, I would drill that
first. Making sure that the location of the switch portion of the contact in
the sash, would not require drilling through any metal joinner plates and was
not over any "leg stud" ( one of the short 2x4's under the window) I would
find (mark) the exact center between the weather stripping and the inner edge
of the sash. At this point, I'd suggest that you determine the size of the
screw that you will be using for mounting the rare earth magnet. It might be a
number 4 or a number 6 screw. Find a drill bit that is small enough so that you
could drill a hole and screw this screw into it so that it grabs. A number a
3/32 drill bit should be ok for a number 4 screw.
Using an electric drill with a quick change chuck, take the 3/32 inch drill
bit and drill about a half inch upward and slightly towards the outside, into
the sash. Leaving the bit in the wood, reverse the drill and loosen the bit and
let it come out of the chuck. Now close the sash so that the end of the drill
bit thats sticking out of the sash makes a mark on the sill. Now you know
exactly where to drill the hole for the switch.
Pull the drill bit out of the sash and move on to do all the rest of the
windows you want to drill. Coming back to the first window using a flat bottom
drill bit that's slightly larger than the diameter of the rare earth magnet,
you can drill into the bottom of the sash .... again, tilted slighly towards
the out side, to a depth just a little greater then the thickness of the rare
earth magnet. ( Do not use a standard bevelved tip, drill bit.) Obviously,
use the hole left by the 3/32 drill bit as the center. A little hint here. On
all of the windows that are reachable from the outside of your house, you may
want to tilt all the bottom sashes out of their tracks so that the bottom of
the sashes are facing outdoors. Now you can go outside and drill into the
sashes instead of trying to "stand on your head". If you have someone helping
you from the inside, it makes the process go pretty quick. The upper sashes can
all be done from the inside in a similar manner.
You can now drill the hole in the sill. You're going to have to use your "eye"
to drill the hole for the switch perpendicular to the surface of the sill. If
you drill straight down, the switch won't fit flush with the surface. Now,
depending upon if you have 2x4 or 2x6 wall thickness you can use two different
methods of drilling downward. If you have 2x6 walls, you can just continue
drilling the 3/8 inch hole through the sill (long drill bit required) into the
frame below, to the bay under the window. If you have 2x4 walls you should stop
drilling, once you get through the sash, and drill the 2x4 frame up from the
bottom in close proximity to the hole in the sash. You'll also have to drill
down to the basement ( up to the attic on the second floor) to bring the "loop"
wire from the panel to each window.
At this point, the method for mounting the magnet and wiring the switch is
obvious. I like to make my splice under the sill and not bring the switch wires
into the bay. This leaves the splice accessable during construction and much
more importantly, the splice is accessable (if necessary) in the future, by
just removing the moulding.
The top sash is basically the same except you will likely have to bring the
loop wire in through the side frame due to the fact that it's easier to drill
through a couple of 2X4s on the side than the long way through a 2x8 or 2x10
header.
Start on the least important, least observable window in the house.(Just in
case :-)
First couple should take about a half hour ( thinking about alternate ways,
measuring, re-measuring, re-re-measuring, etc. After that, 10/15 minutes
apiece.
I think that covers the most important parts. Ask if you have other questions.
>
>
Jim
Remove the Qzapp to email
After you reach a certain age,
there's nothing left to learn the hard way.
Tim Duckworth
web site and located the architectural drawings for my windows (I've
uploaded the appropriate drawing to www.duck24.com/anderson).
Re. recessed contacts: For the bottom sash, the wood between the weather
strip and the inside edge (note that this edge is slightly bevelled towards
the outside of the window) is 5/16" but the rare earth magnet (for the
Sentrol R1125) magnet is 3/8" wide - do you use smaller ones and if so,
which ones? Also, if you drill into the bottom of the lower sash at an
angle aimed towards the outside, remove the drill (not the drill bit), then
close the lower sash to locate the point on the sill won't the *length* of
the drill bit (say 3" ?) make it hit the surface too far on the inside of
the sill?
There may be a similar issue with the upper sash but I want to get the
instructions for the lower sash clear in my head first. Thanks for your
patience!
Regards, Tim
"Alarminex" <alar...@aol.comQzapp> wrote in message
news:20020626005035...@mb-ch.aol.com...
Tim Duckworth
wary of the mechanical components in this area. I've
uploaded an Anderson technical drawing to www.duck24.com/anderson which show
on the lower part of the diagram a cross-sectional of the windows.
Your tip on bonding the sensor to the vinyl intrigues me though "*Don't use
RTV, whether silicone or not, you want the contact to 'bond' a little to the
vinyl" - what do you mean? Just pop the sensor into the hole without any
glue?
Thanks for all your help (via email too).
Regards, Tim
"Jake" <news...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:XzaS8.5668$DQ5.3...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Jake
RTV 'skins' over no matter what type.
Contact cement or vinyl adhesive does not. You want the contact to bond
(adhere) to the vinyl. Stick very, very well.news:uhkv609...@corp.supernews.com...
> Jake - I'm shying away from drilling through the sides of the windows -
I'm
> wary of the mechanical components in this area.
From the looks of your drawing you have plenty of sash room.
Alarminex
<t...@nospam.com> writes:
>Subject: Re: Andersen tilt wash double hung windows - photos
>From: "Tim Duckworth" <t...@nospam.com>
>Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 22:39:25 -0400
>
>Hi Jim - Thanks for the detailed instructions. I've been to the Anderson
>web site and located the architectural drawings for my windows (I've
>uploaded the appropriate drawing to www.duck24.com/anderson).
>
>Re. recessed contacts: For the bottom sash, the wood between the weather
>strip and the inside edge (note that this edge is slightly bevelled towards
>the outside of the window) is 5/16" but the rare earth magnet (for the
>Sentrol R1125) magnet is 3/8" wide - do you use smaller ones and if so,
>which ones? Also, if you drill into the bottom of the lower sash at an
>angle aimed towards the outside, remove the drill (not the drill bit), then
>close the lower sash to locate the point on the sill won't the *length* of
>the drill bit (say 3" ?) make it hit the surface too far on the inside of
>the sill?
I've never used the Sentrol R1125s. In your post you said that you had a 1/8
inch rare earth magnet. I had asked earlier in another thread, I think, if
anyone had ever used a 1/4 rare earth magnet. I thought you'd found one. My
first thought was that you had ordered 3/8 diameter contacts and 1/8 diameter
rare earth magnets. This would work in the space between the edge and the
weather strip. I would not use a 3/8 inch diameter magnet there, but I've seen
some do it. I just don't like disturbing the weather stripping. Maybe someone
else has a suggestion on how to fit a 3/8 magnet there. But I would only use a
1/4 inch magnet.
With regard to the angle of the drill bit ...note that I said "slightly".
(meaning VERY slightly) I should have been more descriptive with my reason. My
concern is .... (and paticularly if you are using a long magnet) that someone
who is not used to drilling accurately might break through the surface of the
inside of the sash. So if you can sort of ****lean*** or put a little
"english" towards the outside of the window, you'll tend to not let the final
drilling for the magnet stray towards the inside and break through. Not enough
to misalign the hole for the switch though.
If you are going to use 1/4 contacts with long magnets, I'd suggest you get the
contacts with extra strengh magnets. I use Amseco contacts but I can't think of
the part number right now. But most every switch mfg has their own version of
this type of contact.
>
>There may be a similar issue with the upper sash but I want to get the
>instructions for the lower sash clear in my head first. Thanks for your
>patience!
>
>Regards, Tim
>
>
>