DSC 832 on Cable VoIP
tourman
that is on Rogers Cable home phone service and the panel is exhibiting
the following. Programmed in SIA format, the panel will seize the line
and send ONLY the manual test signal (*6, master code, 4) but will NOT
send either keypad panics or alarms. I spoke to DSC tech support, and
their suggestion was to reprogram in the older 4 / 2 format and see if
it works. I checked the line voltage and it seems OK, and changed the
jack and plug just in case...
I'd rather stay with SIA or Contact ID, but I have no idea why the
panel is exhibiting this weird selectivity in sending signals. I spoke
to other dealers of my acquaintance, and apparently they have been to
various factory seminars where they have been told to stay away from
everything except a conventional phone line from the telco. Several
have had these weird experiences as well.
If this is true, and panels will over time stop sending signals
properly on cable, this has serious implications in our area, since
there are whole housing developments ONLY served by the local cable
company. To date I have never had problems along this line, since
cable strictly speaking is VoIP, but never leaves the dedicated
facilities of the cable company (and always seems to work as well as a
bell line other than the need for AC backup)
Anyone have any experiences along this line and a solution ? I'm going
back this week coming and I will likely change the board out and see
if the new one works any better. Presumably, it was working OK when
ADT were monitoring it, but suddenly it decides all on its own to be
selective about which signals it will send.
Weird !!!!
Spellcheck Patrol
Takes too long to read this post. Just tell me, are the coloreds to
blame for this issue or is it the christ killers?
tourman
RHC: What you drinking Tom....:))))
nick markowitz
Some VOIP systems you must use 4/2 format to communicate.
Effenpig1
I won't use anything but a POTS line for sending signals with the
built in communicator. Any other phone service gets IP monitoring or
cellular. Sending signals over anything other than a standard phone
line with the panels digital communicator opens you up to serious
liability should there be a communications failure resulting in loss
Robert L Bass
>
> Some VOIP systems you must use 4/2 format to communicate.
I've had good results with Napco sending Contact ID over VoIP.
--
Regards,
Robert L Bass
==============================>
Bass Home Electronics
DIY Alarm and Home Automation Store
http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
Sales & Service 941-870-2310
Fax 941-870-3252
==============================>
Robert L Bass
>
> I won't use anything but a POTS line for sending signals with the built in
I understand the concern with all the problems that have come up so far.
However, it appears as though all of the major carriers are going to switch to
some version of VoIP, even for what we now know as POTS lines. Many of the
inter-city trunks are already digitized and the rest are going that way. Only
time will tell what kind of hoops the alarm industry will have to jump through
just to get a signal down the line.
> Any other phone service gets IP monitoring or cellular...
We're getting a lot more calls for cellular backup and even for cellular as
primary these days. Most are not yet coming from residences though. A couple
of our regular clients operate remote pumping stations that have to be monitored
24/7 for pressure, water level, etc. These are for both fresh and waste water
facilities. It's surprizing some of the niches that alarm gear finds its way
into.
> Sending signals over anything other than a standard phone line with the panels
> digital communicator opens you up to serious liability should there be a
> communications failure resulting in loss...
A lot of that depends on how well you've worded your contract, but certainly
it's better to avoid the loss than deal with the jury. :^)
nick markowitz
I do a lot of interesting monitoring with alarms for industrial
settings the XL 4 is perfect for it.
mleuck
I blame white supremists
tourman
RHC: I guess I'll try the 4/2 format as Nick suggested before I swap
out the board. It just doesn't seem logical that the panel should
seize the line and dial out only under some conditions but not
others...you'd think it would work totally or not at all.....?????
I've sold quite a few of the Uplink 2530 cellular devices as a primary
means of communication, where the client didn't have a home phone and
had no intention of ever getting one. But at nearly $300 my cost
(including the 3 amp power supply, battery and transformer needed),
and extra monitoring costs, they aren't a big seller. Those that have
bought, have looked at their ongoing home phone line costs, and figure
it costs about 6 or 7 months to pay off the unit; then figure the
extra ongoing $10 is still cheaper than a phone line.
I sell a lot of high end panels in homes where the cable phone service
is the only service wired in there. It's going to start making me very
nervous if I have to wait until the job is done and only find out when
I go to put it on line, that it doesn't work. This is the first panel
I've run up against that has exhibited this problem. I normally put in
the SP6000 / 7000 / 5050 Magellan panels from Paradox and have never
had a problem....(yet). Their board technology is a lot newer than
DSC's so maybe that has something to do with it....(fingers crossed)
Spellcheck Patrol
The birthers have taken the lead in idiocy leaving the negro haters
kissing 2nd place. 3rd place is a tie between anyone that voted for
Pelosi, and those that don't think pro rasslin is real.
Spellcheck Patrol
Having a 40 of Malt Duck with my homies. How the fuck are you doing?
Jim
Since the beginning of this switch over to VoIP (in spite of all the
warnings and trepidation) I haven't heard of anyone having a constant
major problem with the cable company telephone service here. Just a
note, those that have had problems were not using Napco. I haven't had
any problems except for the following, which have nothing to do with
quality of signal. 1/ Cable techs back feed the telephone service to
the alarm system and the alarm panel still senses telephone service
but can't call out. I tell my clients to test their system before the
cable guy leaves but sometimes they don't. 2/ In some areas, the cable
service goes out in the middle of the night causing the line fault
monitor to sound the alarm. Some clients I've had to remove the line
fault monitoring option. 3/ At the beginning I had a few instances of
not being able to sustain communication during a download. But that
doesn't seem to be a problem anymore. No reports of alarm signals not
going through.
Bob, with regard to your problem, since you said your problem was
only on some specific signals, the following comes to mind: Why do you
and DSC not think that Contact ID would work where SIA wouldn't? That
is ... why wouldn't DSC recommend Contact ID first, before
recommending 4/2? Just curious. Since *they* didn't, it would raise my
suspicions that it could be a problem they're not telling you about.
( In my limited contact with DSC Technical, they don't seem to be as
forthcoming as they should be about problems they're having) Also,
could it be that the cable bandwidth ( which is set up for voice
communication) is limiting the frequencies that can be transmitted
which just happen to be in those particular alarm signals that you're
not able to transmit? It doesn't seem to equate that some signals can
get through and others can't without considering this.
tourman
RHC: I completely agree. It makes no sense that some signal types
would go through and others dont....none whatsoever. I'm going to try
4/2 to see if it works, then change out the board if that doesn't
work, then put in a system of a different make if that doesn't work.
I'll let you guys know what I discover when I fix the problem.
Thanks to all for the feedback (and Tom, what that stuff, it'll kill
you.....:))
mleuck
I've had better luck with 4/2, it works far more often than CID and
SIA although you'd think CID wouldn't have problems. And brand doesn't
matter, I've seen the same problems with Honeywell, Napco and GE
tourman
RHC: Thanks ! Have you seen this phenomenon where a panel will send
some signals and not others...that just doesn't seem logical to me.
mleuck
It isn't, I've seen panels retry a number of times because they
couldn't complete a set of signals but not send a particular signal
tourman
RHC: Yes, I can see the panel trying the number of times it's set to
call and continue to retry until it either gets through or generates a
"failure to communicate" trouble. However, this panel is simply not
even trying tro call depending upon what set of signals it is supposed
to send. Manual test, excludes the line, and goes through perfectly.
Keypad alarms and regular alarms and restores....it doesn't even pick
up the line and try ????
I'm going over there Tuesday evening and I'll post what I do to solve
the problem (or not). Changing the board and having it work only tells
me there may be something slightly incompatible between the original
832 board and the cable system (or that the original board was
defective for some reason....) Changing to another make of panel
(Paradox) and having it work really doesn't actually solve why this is
happening, other than to finally get this customer on line. I do know
though, thatI have far fewer "unexplainable" problems with Paradox
equipment than with DSC for some reason....
Jim
Robert, are you saying that the panel doesn't even pick up the line
and attempt to dial? If so, that shouldn't have a thing to do with the
type of telephone service. That would be a panel/programing
malfuction.
If it's something other than that, some other things come to mind. If
you're in the mood for experimenting, and the panel has the
capability, try removing dial tone detect. Try putting a delay in
front of the dialing sequence. Try dialing, program a longer delay,
program not waiting for a handshake .... or other combinations of the
above ...... just to see what happens.
Robert L Bass
>
> RHC: Yes, I can see the panel trying the number of times it's set to
call and continue to retry until it either gets through or generates a
"failure to communicate" trouble. However, this panel is simply not
even trying tro call depending upon what set of signals it is supposed
to send. Manual test, excludes the line, and goes through perfectly.
Keypad alarms and regular alarms and restores....it doesn't even pick
up the line and try ????
Bob,
This doesn't sound like a VoIP issue. It really seems as though something else
is set wrong in the programming.
tourman
> "tourman" wrote:
>
> > RHC: Yes, I can see the panel trying the number of times it's set to
>
> call and continue to retry until it either gets through or generates a
> "failure to communicate" trouble. However, this panel is simply not
> even trying tro call depending upon what set of signals it is supposed
> to send. Manual test, excludes the line, and goes through perfectly.
> Keypad alarms and regular alarms and restores....it doesn't even pick
> up the line and try ????
>
> Bob,
>
> This doesn't sound like a VoIP issue. It really seems as though something else
> is set wrong in the programming.
>
> --
>
> Regards,
> Robert L Bass
>
> ==============================>
> Bass Home Electronics
To Jim and Bob...yes, that was my first guess; however, I've checked
all the programming and everything is perfect. Perhaps a default would
help; DSC products are funny that way...solves lots of problems not
solvable any other way for some reason....
Frank Olson
Also try reversing the tip and ring (t-1 and r-1 too).
tourman
RHC: UPDATE.....after attaching my laptop to the panel on prem, and
uploading it, I quickly saw that "Partition 1 was disabled and
Partition 2 was enabled. So the panel wasn't even seeing the existing
zones.
Damn....major stupid mistake...egg on my face. Moral of this
story...always upload your panels rather than depend upon keypad
programming, and when approaching any problem, check the simple things
first...
Now I kinda wish I hadn't started this thread, so wouldn't have to eat
crow.....:))
Frank Olson
For shame, Bob... For shame... Would you like an apple pie with your
crow? :-)
tourman
RHC: Well, it might make chewing the feathers a little more palatable
Frank...:))
However, some good must come out of bad situations. At least I feel a
little more comfortable with Rogers Cable home phone service, that I
won't likely be installing the alarm only to find I can't make the
panel communicate over their service. This was the first time I have
ever had trouble (and hopefully the last) with alarm transmission over
cable. At least the fault was my own, which is a lot easier to fix
than fighting with Rogers over a situation they wouldn't likely even
recognize as a real "problem"
mleuck
Remember this the next time you slam ADT for programming/installation
errors
tourman
RHC: That is bullshit Mark !! I slam ADT locally primarily for their
poor monitoring, and often lousy and expensive service. But now that
you mention it, I routinely see ADT panels with no test signals
programmed in , no cancel codes programmed in, and excessive dialer
delays programmed in, so their operators don't have to deal with
customer caused false trips. I've taken over several ADT systems that
DON'T WORK - period !! I've replaced ADT systems that are so old,
it's impossible that they work because these old panels cannot be
programmed for 10 digit dialing. That means some clients have been
paying for and counting on protection that hasn't worked for several
years guaranteed. And I'm reasonably sure they don't upload their
panel settings at the end either...(although that is an assumption on
my part)
As I've said many times, I see just as much crap out there by the
small companies, probably more so on a statistical basis. But ADT is
the market leader and should be setting the standards for all of us,
and they clearly aren't in our area (at least on the residential side
of the business)
I suggest your working for a big alarm company may be clouding your
judgment....
Jim
I don't use cancel signals.
I'd rather the client get the call from central. To me, in spite of
the minor risks of a false alarm, the actual engaging of the central
station and interaction with the client is desireable.
> I've taken over several ADT systems that
> DON'T WORK - period !! I've replaced �ADT systems that are so old,
> it's impossible that they work because these old panels cannot be
> programmed for 10 digit dialing. That means some clients have been
> paying for and counting on protection that hasn't worked for several
> years guaranteed. And I'm reasonably sure they don't upload their
> panel settings at the end either...(although that is an assumption on
> my part)
>
> As I've said many times, I see just as much crap out there by the
> small companies, probably more so on a statistical basis. But ADT is
> the market leader and should be setting the standards for all of us,
> and they clearly aren't in our area (at least on the residential side
> of the business)
>
> I suggest your working for a big alarm company may be clouding your
> judgment....-
Ya think?
NAHHHH!
mleuck
Very possible although I don't tend to base my opinion of all small
companies based on what I've seen in my area
We get it Robert you hate ADT..jeez
tourman
RHC: (sigh)...no I don't hate ADT. I am a third party dealer on their
station, although I've chosen not to use them. I "hate" any company
that chooses to give lousy service, big or small.......
tourman
> > customer caused false trips.
>
> I don't use cancel signals.
>
> I'd rather the client get the call from central. To me, in spite of
> the minor risks of a false alarm, the actual engaging of the central
> station and interaction with the client is desireable.
>
>
>
> > paying for and counting on protection that hasn't worked for several
> > years guaranteed. And I'm reasonably sure they don't upload their
> > panel settings at the end either...(although that is an assumption on
> > my part)
>
> > As I've said many times, I see just as much crap out there by the
> > small companies, probably more so on a statistical basis. But ADT is
> > the market leader and should be setting the standards for all of us,
> > and they clearly aren't in our area (at least on the residential side
> > of the business)
>
> > I suggest your working for a big alarm company may be clouding your
> > judgment....-
>
> Ya think?
> NAHHHH!
RHC: Yeah, I know what you mean about cancel codes. There IS a real
risk the client won't understand why he may get a delayed call.
However, with false alarms running $116 a pop, I've chosen to train
people on this aspect of the service, and hope they remember. But I
have lost one client because of it......
mleuck
Okay so now I'm lost here, you don't hate ADT yet going by the 2nd
part of that statement and this previous post you do
tourman
RHC: What the devil don't you understand here. Companies big and small
that run shoddy operations are part a very large problem in our
industry. Its not exclusively ADT, or Brinks for that matter....or Joe
Blow local alarm company either !
I'ts not who they are; it's what they are.I can't make it any simpler
than that !
Frank Olson
Bozo Companies aren't limited to the alarm trade either. The fire
protection industry is chalker-block full of "Bozos"...
mleuck
>
> RHC: What the devil don't you understand here. Companies big and small
> that run shoddy operations are part a very large problem in our
> industry. Its not exclusively ADT, or Brinks for that matter....or Joe
> Blow local alarm company either !
> I'ts not who they are; it's what they are.I can't make it any simpler
> than that !
Yet you usually only mention ADT and Brinks, thats what you don't
understand here
mleuck
Frank gets it even tho he's Canadian
tourman
RHC: If you would read posts more carefully, you would see I have
never mentioned Brinks in a derogatory way. I simply have had no
exposure to them, since they virtually don't exist up here, so I can't
comment one way or the other. ADT on the other hand, IS present here
in a big way,so I can comment based on my personal experience.
Protectron is the large company up here. They do my monitoring and my
billing, so I'm not "anti big company". They have done some stupid
things as well, but not on an ongoing basis like ADT, and are a pretty
solid company. But I'm sure you can find many who would have
complaints about them as well. It simply goes with the territory when
you're a "big guy"
tourman
RHC: Mark, do you have something against us Canucks ? We love
you........:))
tourman
RHC: Oh great !! ....sounds like regulation and controls haven't added
much other than regulations and controls
Doug
"tourman" <roberc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:19de7ebd-73d3-4d80...@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
They've done what they are primarily designed to do, increase revenue for
the city/state/province or whatever other authority imposes them.
Doug
Jim
> On Jan 18, 12:35�am, Frank Olson
>
> > Bozo Companies aren't limited to the alarm trade either. �The fire
> > protection industry is chalker-block full of "Bozos"...
>
> RHC: Oh great !! ....sounds like regulation and controls haven't added
> much other than regulations and controls-
I'm pretty sure I've said it in ASA before and I've said it often
enough locally that the Fire Marshals sort of don't like to see me at
meetings. It especially applies to those who are in "high" places in
the fire detection realm ( all the way to NFPA) and to a lesser degree
the security industry.
These people are "safety zealots" They're in a position to make,
foster and/or enforce rules that govern the industry, and they are the
ones who benefit most from it by maintaining their jobs. In my opinion
they use the "if it saves the life of ONNNNNNE person, it's worth it"
justification phrase, to defend and downplay the monitary effect, and
hardship it places on hundreds of thousands of people. No one can
answer their "it's worth it" lament without sounding like an uncaring
lowlife. My answer is .... NO, it's not necessarily "worth it".
When I get into these types of "discussions" I always ask the
defenders of the "system" .... If the safety of people is your main
objective and not the perpetuation of your job, why is it that only a
so called .... "approved' fire system can be installed? How come
"some" detection isn't better than NO detection? How come the Ma and
Pa Deli can't have a fire alarm system that wont set them back
thousands of dollars? ..... So, because of your rules, they can't
have any system at all and if it is installed, not only them but the
installer can be fined and perhaps put out of business. How come you
can't provide any statistics to prove that your outlandish rules
actually DO save lives and property and are not just someones "OH I
got a great idea that outta saves some lives" rule, that you just tack
on to your already rediculous list that only "sounds" like it'll save
a life or two? No testing, No statistics. No followup. No proof. Just
another rule to cost the end user more money and allow you to have
something else to enforce, fine people for not having, and justify the
cost to the taxpayers for your office office and for all the personel
and documentation labor that ensues. Just another rule that ignores
the people that it excludes by promoting all the mythical people it
will save. With no substantiation, no justification .... it's just a
"good idea" Because ..... "If it can save the life of ONNNNNNE
person..... it's worth it".
Opppps! No answer for that one ... is there? So then what is it
again that your suppose to be concerned about? Lets' see .....is it
the continuation of your job or the safety of people?
Bullshit. It's buracracy and "Good ol boyism" in it's best form.
Obviously, I no longer install commercial fire systems. No sense
paying another fine for telling the fire marshal to shove his
rediculous rules up his ass.
Robert L Bass
>
> No sense paying another fine for telling the fire
> marshal to shove his rediculous rules up his ass.
Hmm. I've tried a number of approaches in dealing with fire marshals over the
years. That was one I had considered but never had the nerve to try. :^)
mleuck
>
> RHC: Mark, do you have something against us Canucks ? We love
> you........:))
Not really although I wonder about petem sometimes, he's part French
was is a whole different story
tourman
RHC: This may be off topic a bit but I just have to respond to that
infamous argument "if it just saves one life" in trying to justify
some action or other. On the surface it would seem to be a difficult
one to argue without looking like an uncaring fool. But over the years
this argument has been used time and time again by (for example) the
anti gun jealots when trying to justify their extreme positions on
some regulation or proposed law.
When you really think about it, there IS an answer and it's an obvious
one. People in positions of power have to make hard choices all the
time and do so based on costs versus benefits. Choices are made every
day that govern the costs of a certain action versus the savings in
human life - we do it in road design, in safety rules governing
construction, in automobile design, in the placement (or not) of stop
signs and stop lights, and in laws that govern our everyday public
activities. There is no shame in making those kind of decisions which
can involve calculating the loss of human lives versus the costs
expended. That's just modern day life. Its using the dollars involved
to provide the maximum benefit for the money expended and is what
people in power are paid the big bucks to do.
So to those who try to justify outlandish restrictions or pass
unreasonable laws, and try to justify their extremism with that kind
of foolish argument, that is pure unadulterated BULLSHIT. They are the
ones who should be on the block to prove the worth of their proposals
versus the human or financial costs of the counter position.
As one example that comes to mind, idiot politicians up here recently
used that argument to justify the expenditure of $2 BILLION dollars of
public money to register all the long guns in the country, on the
premise that it was worth it if "it saved only one life" That is
deluded extremism of the worst kind. I'm sure we can all think of
other examples.
So the next time that argument is used, take a long hard look at the
person or group using it and make 'em prove their position is
justified based on the actual FACTS of both sides of the
situation .....
Jim
> "Jim" wrote:
>
> > No sense paying another fine for telling the fire
> > marshal to shove his rediculous rules up his ass.
>
> Hmm. �I've tried a number of approaches in dealing with fire marshals over the
> years. �That was one I had considered but never had the nerve to try. �:^)
>
> --
>
> Regards,
> Robert L Bass
>
If you're smart, you only go for the pleasure of doing it once.
At $3 or 400.00 ( I forget) a pop and a day in court, the "pleasure"
would wear thin pretty quick. Besides the price would go up each time
the judge saw you. I don't know how much of that "pleasure" I could
stand. But it sure was worth it that one time.
The first time that I met him shortly after the event, I told him,
while standing really close to him, that he was never going to forget
me. So now, every time I happen to be in the same place as he is, I
always make it a point to make sure he see's my face. I just love
grinning at him. I've been told that he knows who I am and that I tell
the story about "the event" ...... all the time!!!!!!!!!! The board
memebers of the association get a little tense when I raise my hand to
ask him a question, as I usually get in a zinger. Like, .....What
statistics do you have that support your contention that these new
regulations are going to save more lives and property? Or, You're the
only jurisdiction that has had these regulations for years. Compared
to the other jurisditions, all of which DON'T have them, how much
property and how many more lives do you estimate have been saved in
your area? I've asked those same questions numerous times. You'd
think he'd come prepared one of these years. But, as I say, he doesn't
have to. His "position" and the power trip he's on will carry him
through without any justification for what he does.
People like him just bring out the nasty in me. I just love it!
Jim
> situation .....-
As a matter of fact I got the term "Safety Zealots" from an article I
read about anti gun groups.
Frank Olson
No... He's Quebecois. "French" has nothing to do with it. He doesn't
even speak "French". A young lady I used to hang out with years ago was
from Paris and even *she* couldn't understand anyone from Quebec.
mleuck
It's a French variant, same thing
Frank Olson
Yeah... something like "English" and
what-ever-the-heck-it-is-you-Amuricans-speak...
JoeRaisin
Well, as the brilliant Steve Martin once observed, "Those French have a
different word for EVERYTHING!"
JoeRaisin
But... but... It's for the CHILDREN!
Robert L Bass
>
>> As one example that comes to mind, idiot politicians up here recently
>> used that argument to justify the expenditure of $2 BILLION dollars of
>> public money to register all the long guns in the country, on the
>> premise that it was worth it if "it saved only one life"
>
The truly stupid thing about the whole registration argument is the idea that
registration will save anyone or anything. Registration is not about saving
lives or fighting crime. It's about money and control.
I don't like guns at all but I can think of no valid reason to make law-abiding
citizens register their guns. It's their right to own them. I'd support a law
requiring that guns be secured when not under the control or supervision of the
responsible owner. That is my idea of gun control. Someone else said "gun
control" consists of using two hands... :^)
Wasting time, money and effort on registration instead of "control" probably
costs more lives because no one is doing anything to protect anyone -- just more
of the usual government nonsense.
--
Regards,
Robert
Robert L Bass
>
> If you're smart, you only go for the pleasure
> that "pleasure" I could stand. But it sure was
> worth it that one time.
I can just picture the look on his face every time he sees you. That would make
it worth the one-time fee. :^)
> But, as I say, he doesn't have to. His "position"
> and the power trip he's on will carry him
> through without any justification for what he
> does.
We had an FM in East Hartford, CT, many years ago. He was a royal pain. I
remember one day the pastor of my church pulled me aside just to give mwe the
good news... he'd retired (not sure but whatever, he was gone). We were both
delighted. I'm sure every alarm installer and electrical contractor in town
was, too.
> People like him just bring out the nasty in me.
> I just love it!
Awe, c'mon Jim. That wasn't nasty. You could have done much better than
that... :^)
--
Regards,
Robert
JoeRaisin
I've heard that in Michigan a gun must be stored "securely" and an owner
faces criminal sanctions if he/she fails to do so and the gun is stolen
and used in a crime.
I don't know if that is true - I'm trying to find out.
We have a 'shall issue' concealed carry permit law and of recent
controversy is the laws that allow 'open carry' in all but some
restricted locations.
Robert L Bass
>
> I've heard that in Michigan a gun must be stored "securely" and an owner faces
> criminal sanctions if he/she fails to do so and the gun is stolen and used in
> a crime.
>
> I don't know if that is true - I'm trying to find out.
There's an organization in Michigan called MCRGO (Michigan Coalition for
Responsible Gun Ownership). They have information about right to carry laws and
other stuff related to gun ownership. A lawyer from the group answers all kinds
of questions online. Here's a link.
mleuck
This from someone who in the past said guns were nothing more than an
extension of someones manhood?
G. Morgan
wrote:
>It's a French variant, same thing
That's like saying the coon-asses* in Lousiana speak French too.
*that is not a racial remark -- that's what they call themselves
(white or black)
G. Morgan
<nor...@bogusemail.com> wrote:
>> No sense paying another fine for telling the fire
>> marshal to shove his rediculous rules up his ass.
>
>Hmm. I've tried a number of approaches in dealing with fire marshals over the
>years. That was one I had considered but never had the nerve to try. :^)
A few days ago there were these two college age kids on the Today Show
with a "bucket list". (they are starting early).
One of the things on the list was to tell a judge:
"You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!"
G. Morgan
<nor...@bogusemail.com> wrote:
>Registration is not about saving
>lives or fighting crime. It's about money and control.
It's so they know who's door to knock down first, when the
"revolution" comes!
petem
"G. Morgan" <usenet...@gawab.com> a �crit dans le message de groupe de
discussion : 3r3cl5hcbn8l9vami...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 22:08:42 -0800 (PST), mleuck <m.l...@tx.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>>It's a French variant, same thing
>
>
> That's like saying the coon-asses* in Lousiana speak French too.
>
Its more like connasse
connasse come from con witch mean cunt.
so when someone call you connasse its comparing you to a cunt.
alarman
>That was one I had considered but never had the
> nerve to try.
I have no doubt that is true.
--
js
Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
G. Morgan
wrote:
>Its more like connasse
>
>connasse come from con witch mean cunt.
>
>so when someone call you connasse its comparing you to a cunt.
Wrong.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=coon+ass
one who is cajun from the bayou of Louisiana.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cajun
We are as unique as our dialect suggests, we are Cajuns. We are a very
small ethnic group that is primarily concentrated in Southern
Louisiana. Our ancestors were exiled from Acadie, France by way of
genocide (1755-1785)Families were tragically seperated, or killed.
Acaidians what are now known widely as Cajuns have a tragic and
complex history you should read more about.
The word "Cajun" comes from the French pronunciation of Acadian which
is "A-Cad-jin" or "Cajin" which then became "Cajun",
Robert L Bass
>
> This from someone who in the past said
> guns were nothing more than an extension
> of someones manhood?
I don't recall saying that. Are you trying to start an argument?
I've stated my opinion about guns several times and it has not changed much over
the years. I don't like them but since there's no way to get rid of them I want
people to control them.
--
Regards,
Robert
Robert L Bass
>
> One of the things on the list was to tell a judge:
> "You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!"
That was a good line in the movie but it was actually directed at the defense
attorney (Cruise). There was a major gaffe though. No way would a lieutenant
have called a colonel "You son of a bitch" during a court martial and not face
charges himself. Only Jim could have gotten away with that one. :^)
--
Regards,
Robert
Robert L Bass
>
> It's so they know who's door to knock
> down first, when the "revolution" comes!
Is that the one where Texas secedes from the Union? I'm all for moving that
wall up to the Oklahoma border. :^)
--
Regards,
Robert
Robert L Bass
>
> Wrong.
>
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=coon+ass
> one who is cajun from the bayou of Louisiana.
Actually, when spelled "coonass" it has two meanings. One is cajun and the
other is "a contemptuous term for a woman" or "vulva" so he's correct.
--
Regards,
Robert
G. Morgan
<nor...@bogusemail.com> wrote:
>Is that the one where Texas secedes from the Union? I'm all for moving that
>wall up to the Oklahoma border. :^)
I spent 3 months in OKC, and trust me on this one... It would be no
big loss to keep extending the wall to Kansas. In fact, we should
just give back Oklahoma to the Native Americans. They would make
better use of it.
Of course, we would have to keep Cushing for our oil depot.
G. Morgan
<nor...@bogusemail.com> wrote:
>Actually, when spelled "coonass" it has two meanings. One is cajun and the
>other is "a contemptuous term for a woman" or "vulva" so he's correct.
Not in the context I was describing.
JoeRaisin
There was a LOT in that movie wasn't realistic. The entire premise was
'hollywood' much like every alarm panel being mounted on the outside of
buildings and ductwork always being large (and strong) enough to crawl
through...
That said, I do like the movie as Jack Nicholson is one of my favorite
actors.
mleuck
After last night like you'll have to also include Massachusetts, told
you health care is dead
Robert L Bass
>
> Not in the context I was describing.
Understood. To Yankees, it's all just another kind of "southern speak". :^)
Robert L Bass
>
> That said, I do like the movie as Jack Nicholson
> is one of my favorite actors.
Same here. The guy is great. My brother buys movies -- lots of them -- on DVD.
I think he has almost everything Nicholson ever did except, "One Flew Over..."
To enjoy anything out of Hollywood, it's best to suspend your sense of reality
before the picture starts.
Hmm. Come to think of it, that might also apply to ASA. :^)
--
Regards,
Robert
Robert L Bass
>
> I spent 3 months in OKC, and trust me on this one...
> It would be no big loss to keep extending the wall to
My sister lived in Lawton for a few years. Frequently you could hear the rumble
of bombs at Ft Sill. The army does artillery training there.
--
Regards,
Robert
G. Morgan
wrote:
>
>After last night like you'll have to also include Massachusetts, told
>you health care is dead
Health care is already dead. It's the health care "reform" that's up
in the air now.
I dislocated my shoulder in October, it took the insurance company
over a month to approve surgery. Then it took another 2 months to cut
through all the red-tape to finally get on the operating table. Then
post-op, it took another month to get physical therapy approved (it
was denied TWICE by the insurance company) and went to peer-review.
Now I need pain-management because my surgeon only supplies pain med's
6 weeks post-op. It took 2 weeks to get a referral, and once
approved, the next available appt. is on Jan 28th. I have about 2
days worth of med's left. So I'm looking at pain and possible opiate
withdrawal for all of next week.
Yeah, the current system works just fine. <sarcasm>
I love the fact that giant corporations control my health care
destiny, instead of the doctors.
While I was at the orthopedic hospital I noticed an older couple in
the elevator speaking with a British accent. I couldn't help but to
ask if they were from there. It turns out they were, and I asked them
what they thought of our "system". Boy, did I get an ear full. We
talked for 15 minutes about how the wife got jerked around just like
me. And she told me how much better the British system is. In fact,
she was actually considering flying back there to have her needs taken
care of, as it would actually be faster and cheaper to eat the cost of
the airfare and hassle we receive.
I take it Mark, you have not actually had to use your heath insurance
for anything other than routine stuff. Otherwise, I'm sure your
opinion would be much different.
I would already be back at work if it wasn't for the insurance
company's constant delays and automatic denials.
JoeRaisin
He DOESN'T have One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest?
That is THE Jack Nicholson movie!
Well, that and The Shining, Oh - and The Last Detail... of course there
was his role in Easy Rider... Witches of Eastwick... Wolf... Ah crap -
they're all good...
mleuck
> Health care is already dead. It's the health care "reform" that's up
> in the air now.
The government can't "reform" anything, all they can do is make it
worse
> I dislocated my shoulder in October, it took the insurance company
> over a month to approve surgery. Then it took another 2 months to cut
> through all the red-tape to finally get on the operating table. Then
> post-op, it took another month to get physical therapy approved (it
> was denied TWICE by the insurance company) and went to peer-review.
>
> I take it Mark, you have not actually had to use your heath insurance
> for anything other than routine stuff. Otherwise, I'm sure your
> opinion would be much different.
You take it wrong, I broke my hip early last year and had surgery 2
days later, insurance (Blue Cross) went with the hospital and doctor I
chose, even paid for some of the meds which I needed very little of. I
paid about 6 grand and insurance paid the rest which totaled somewhere
around 40. Not quite as nice as the appendix surgery in the mid 90's,
40 grand total of which I think I paid 800 which for some reason was
refunded back to me later.
Sounds like you need new insurance
> Now I need pain-management because my surgeon only supplies pain med's
> 6 weeks post-op. It took 2 weeks to get a referral, and once
> approved, the next available appt. is on Jan 28th. I have about 2
> days worth of med's left. So I'm looking at pain and possible opiate
> withdrawal for all of next week.
>
> Yeah, the current system works just fine. <sarcasm>
For me yes
> I love the fact that giant corporations control my health care
> destiny, instead of the doctors.
And yet it sounds like you are willing to give it to the giant
government which somehow will make it all better, have fun with that
> While I was at the orthopedic hospital I noticed an older couple in
> the elevator speaking with a British accent. I couldn't help but to
> ask if they were from there. It turns out they were, and I asked them
> what they thought of our "system". Boy, did I get an ear full. We
> talked for 15 minutes about how the wife got jerked around just like
> me. And she told me how much better the British system is. In fact,
> she was actually considering flying back there to have her needs taken
> care of, as it would actually be faster and cheaper to eat the cost of
> the airfare and hassle we receive.
Ask her why they started with a "free" service then later added an
expensive pay service (it's because the "free" service is so bad), You
think you had to wait for surgery on your shoulder? Try getting it
done anywhere else, people made fun of Palin for bringing up death
panels but they do have the equivalent government groups over there
deciding who gets what and when. There is no instance where government-
run healthcare works without huge taxes, rationing and shitty service.
If you want to complain about your coverage blame government not the
"big corporations"
What you don't understand is healthcare is not a right, it's not cheap
and never will be, someone has to pay for it and all government can do
is screw it up like it did Medicare, Social Security, Head Start, Post
Office, Welfare.
Only a fool would support what was being run through Congress the last
few months
Jim
> Robert L Bass wrote:
> > "JoeRaisin" wrote:
>
> >> That said, I do like the movie as Jack Nicholson
> >> is one of my favorite actors.
>
> > Same here. �The guy is great. �My brother buys movies -- lots of them --
> > on DVD. I think he has almost everything Nicholson ever did except, "One
> > Flew Over..." To enjoy anything out of Hollywood, it's best to suspend
> > your sense of reality before the picture starts.
>
> > Hmm. �Come to think of it, that might also apply to ASA. �:^)
>
> He DOESN'T have One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest?
>
> That is THE Jack Nicholson movie!
I watched that movie again about a year ago and just realized, after
all these years, that Danny DeVito was in it.
Now I know why Louie DePalma was such a nut!
G. Morgan
wrote:
>What you don't understand is healthcare is not a right,
That's the crux of the argument right there. Healthcare for all
citizens of the richest country in the world absolutely should be an
entitlement.
What you're essentially saying is, "If you don't have a decent job
that offers a health care supplement. You deserve to die, be in pain,
be crippled, or whatever."
All so "capitalism" can rule, and line the pockets of overpaid
executives and a slew of administrative bureaucracy. It's broken
Mark. Something needs to be done.
Some things should not be "for profit". Health care is one of those
things. Drug companies pay billions for marketing, why? The
emergency room charges $50 for 2 tylenol pills, why?
It's all fucked up, because of greed.
mleuck
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:22:37 -0800 (PST), mleuck <m.le...@tx.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
> >What you don't understand is healthcare is not a right,
>
> That's the crux of the argument right there. Healthcare for all
> citizens of the richest country in the world absolutely should be an
> entitlement.
>
> What you're essentially saying is, "If you don't have a decent job
> that offers a health care supplement. You deserve to die, be in pain,
> be crippled, or whatever."
No I said it wasn't a right, there is a difference
> All so "capitalism" can rule, and line the pockets of overpaid
> executives and a slew of administrative bureaucracy. It's broken
> Mark. Something needs to be done.
Giving that absurd statement feel free to continue to think it's
broken
> Some things should not be "for profit". Health care is one of those
> things. Drug companies pay billions for marketing, why? The
> emergency room charges $50 for 2 tylenol pills, why?
So hospitals, drug companies, emergency services, equipment
manufacturers shouldn't make any profit? Man I hope you don't go into
business for yourself.
Drug companies also pay billions in research and they make a profit,
take that away and you have Venezuela which is failing fast. The
emergency room charges $50 to make up for the shortfall of Medicare
funding from the federal government, the "free" emergency care they
are required to give to the poor, all the lawsuits from someone
stubbing their toe while waiting for a doctor and the fact they can
charge $50 for 2 Tylenol pills.
How about someone telling you how much you can make? I doubt you'd
like it much
>
> It's all fucked up, because of greed.
No it's the best in the world because of greed
JoeRaisin
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:22:37 -0800 (PST), mleuck <m.l...@tx.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>> What you don't understand is healthcare is not a right,
>
> That's the crux of the argument right there. Healthcare for all
> citizens of the richest country in the world absolutely should be an
> entitlement.
>
> What you're essentially saying is, "If you don't have a decent job
> that offers a health care supplement. You deserve to die, be in pain,
> be crippled, or whatever."
>
> All so "capitalism" can rule, and line the pockets of overpaid
> executives and a slew of administrative bureaucracy. It's broken
> Mark. Something needs to be done.
>
The only way to take the 'money' out of the healthcare issue would be to
have the Government take over all healthcare facilites and make all
the healthcare workers, from the Doctors to the EMT's & nurses aids
Government employees. There, all fixed - well, except for the problems
THAT would cause...
Not sure of I've spoken out about it here, but I have on the other forum
- I think all they needed to do was expand medicare/medicaid to
encompass those folks who needed help getting coverage either due to a
preexisting condition or lack of benefits.
As to your plight - I hope your injury was on the fob and you are
getting workman's comp from your employer and it is causing them to
reassess the choices they made regarding the health insurance they offer.
That is one of the areas of our current system that bothers me. Right
now we really DON'T have much of a choice about our health insurance
(and the programs being presented won't change that). Most folks have
to take what their employer decides to offer with no say in the decision
process. Some folks get great insurance, some folks get crappy
insurance similar to those on OUR industry we like to call 'trunk
slammers' - they offer a cheap product but the service sucks.
I don't know what the fix would be for that though. Nothing I can think
of would really work short of forcing adjusters to personally visit
every person whose claim they are denying and inform them of the
decision and why it was made.
Oh Yeah - that person gets to have six of their largest male
relatives/friends/acquaintances on hand to help explain their side of it...
mleuck
>
> Not sure of I've spoken out about it here, but I have on the other forum
> - I think all they needed to do was expand medicare/medicaid to
> encompass those folks who needed help getting coverage either due to a
> preexisting condition or lack of benefits.
But the problem is Medicare is too bloated, filled with fraud and
almost broke, Medicaid is getting so expensive some states are looking
at opting out
You are looking at expanding government programs that are in the
process of failing.
G. Morgan
wrote:
>The
>emergency room charges $50 to make up for the shortfall of Medicare
>funding from the federal government, the "free" emergency care they
>are required to give to the poor, all the lawsuits from someone
>stubbing their toe while waiting for a doctor and the fact they can
>charge $50 for 2 Tylenol pills.
Okay then, here is the solution. We need tort reform so people can't
sue Dr's for ridiculous amounts in frivolous lawsuits. Now the
doctor's malpractice insurance gets to come down. And they aren't
scared to do their job.
The "free ER care" is already subsidized by you and me in the form of
higher premiums, so are we not already in a "socialist" system?
So how about hospitals and insurance companies figure out what it
"really costs" for treatments. And pay and bill accordingly. Without
adding in all the uninsured "walk-ins". Those are the people that
will be eligible for the Public ----> OPTION <---- right wingers keep
forgetting to add that's it's only an OPTION, an insurance of last
resort. For folks that can not afford a regular policy.
Doctors, nurses, and everyone else still gets paid the same. What
needs to happen is cut out the inefficiency and waste. And that's
exactly what a Public OPTION will force the current carriers to do.
No more $50 Tylenol after that.
And, yes... I do believe in capitalism very much so. I just think
it's disgraceful that people suffer because the company execs. want a
better stock price, that translates into a better Mercedes next year
for them. They automatically deny almost everything automatically the
first time, and you have to fight them tooth and nail just to get the
care you need.
I'm not saying they don't deserve to make a profit. That's the very
first thing my college instructor said on day one, "the purpose of
business is to make a profit". But, they are letting PEOPLE suffer
and DIE for this profit. All I'm saying is re-analyze everything,
find out the TRUE cost of heath care. And limit what the insurance
companies are allowed to deny for medically necessary procedures, and
get rid of that fucking pre-existing condition rider crap. I can't
believe that's even legal!
Humor me please.... Go to the insurance carrier's web site of your
choice and get a quote. For a decent policy, not one that only pays
70% and makes you pay a $5000 deductible. Get a quote comparable to
the insurance you have now, and what you think is reasonable coverage
for the average man of our age. When you get the number, report back
with it.... Then we'll figure out what the minimum salary is to live
on while paying that premium.
I think you'll see that non-skilled laborers, and people without real
marketable skills are completely priced out. And that's why YOU pay
more, and why we need a last resort public option.
Or you do prefer just to say, "screw 'em, let 'em die?".
JoeRaisin
The TRUE cost is what the market will bear.
Under the current system the consumer has no incentive to shop their
'consuming' around for the best price. In fact, prices are artificially
determined through negotiations between insurance companies and providers.
Check out your next emergency room or hospital stay bill and see the
difference between what they accept from the insurance company and what
you would pay if you didn't have it.
Our current tax laws are a contributor in this since the providers can
point to what they charge those without insurance (highly inflated IMHO)
and what they get paid from insurance companies. That difference
translates into a tax break for each payment accepted from insurance
companies since the portion not paid is considered a "write off."
Also, if you own a business or get insurance through your employer the
premiums you pay are deducted or taken from pre-tax dollars. If you buy
your own insurance you cannot do this.
Level the tax field by either making insurance premiums deductible or
not for everyone. By using a combination of HSA'a (pre-tax dollars) and
catastrophic coverage you make health insurance more like auto insurance
in that it isn't used for minor expenses such as routine office visits
so folks are more apt to look at how much an office visit costs before
signing up with a particular doctor reconnecting the consumer with the
provider and, as it always does, the competition will result in a
general lowering of prices.
I still think those who are denied insurance due to 'preexisting
conditions' should fall under medicare/medicaid. I know it's already
bloated and inefficient but it's also unfair to require insurance
companies to insure someone who will be taking more than they are paying
right of the bat. That would just make premiums even more expensive for
everyone. Same thing would happen if laws governing auto insurance was
restructured so the insurance companies were not allowed to raise rates
or decline coverage to people who make accidents or risky driving a hobby.
I do agree that tort reform is needed to bring down the cost of that
insurance - Frankly, I think the bulk of such reform should be aimed at
the lawyers in that any lawsuit deemed frivolous results in the lawyer
not being allowed to collect any fee whatsoever, and being required to
pay any court related expenses.
As it is, some lawyers seek out clients for small-time lawsuits knowing
that regardless of outcome, they get at least something out of it with
no risk to them at all. Even those who advertise "no fee unless you
win" are only out 'time' which is written off on their taxes at their
highest rate structure.
Hit 'em in the wallet and the number of these speculative small pay-out
suits (which (cumulatively) are really what costs the insurance
companies the big bucks - not the few large high-profile ones) will
decline considerably.
Puterjoe
> On Jan 2, 7:26 pm, mleuck <m.le...@tx.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 2, 12:17 pm, Spellcheck Patrol <alarminst...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 2, 1:15 pm, tourman <robercampb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > I am currenttly doing an ADT takeover of a DSC 832 Version 2.0 panel
> > > > that is on Rogers Cable home phone service and the panel is exhibiting
> > > > the following. Programmed in SIA format, the panel will seize the line
> > > > and send ONLY the manual test signal (*6, master code, 4) but will NOT
> > > > send either keypad panics or alarms. I spoke to DSC tech support, and
> > > > their suggestion was to reprogram in the older 4 / 2 format and see if
> > > > it works. I checked the line voltage and it seems OK, and changed the
> > > > jack and plug just in case...
>
> > > > I'd rather stay with SIA or Contact ID, but I have no idea why the
> > > > panel is exhibiting this weird selectivity in sending signals. I spoke
> > > > to other dealers of my acquaintance, and apparently they have been to
> > > > various factory seminars where they have been told to stay away from
> > > > everything except a conventional phone line from the telco. Several
> > > > have had these weird experiences as well.
>
> > > > If this is true, and panels will over time stop sending signals
> > > > properly on cable, this has serious implications in our area, since
> > > > there are whole housing developments ONLY served by the local cable
> > > > company. To date I have never had problems along this line, since
> > > > cable strictly speaking is VoIP, but never leaves the dedicated
> > > > facilities of the cable company (and always seems to work as well as a
> > > > bell line other than the need for AC backup)
>
> > > > Anyone have any experiences along this line and a solution ? I'm going
> > > > back this week coming and I will likely change the board out and see
> > > > if the new one works any better. Presumably, it was working OK when
> > > > ADT were monitoring it, but suddenly it decides all on its own to be
> > > > selective about which signals it will send.
>
> > > > Weird !!!! <
>
> > > Takes too long to read this post. Just tell me, are the coloreds to
> > > blame for this issue or is it the christ killers?
>
> > I blame white supremists <
>
> The birthers have taken the lead in idiocy leaving the negro haters
> kissing 2nd place. 3rd place is a tie between anyone that voted for
> Pelosi, and those that don't think pro rasslin is real.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Your an idiot....keep that racist crap to yourself....i bet you teach
that crap to your kids.....you ain't funny, but I bet you think you
are.....go play some where else....
G. Morgan
<j...@jadamssecurity.com> wrote:
>Your an idiot....keep that racist crap to yourself....i bet you teach
>that crap to your kids.....you ain't funny, but I bet you think you
>are.....go play some where else....
That's just Tom. He's not really that way, he does it for shock
value... suckering in troll-bait like yourself.
He's kinda like Carlos Mencia ... makes fun of everyone.
And he organizes charities to help those very same people he appears
to be making fun of.
Yvan Hall
Log on to Find out how you can make money by clicking my Web Site.
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"Puterjoe" <j...@jadamssecurity.com> wrote in message
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