does this make any sense

[Frank]

I copied the following from a car group and it makes no sense to me.
Is he right?

"I bought a Garmin 2610 GPS when it was the top of their line. The
list price was about $1,000 and the street price that I paid was
about $800. A year later they changed the map format and renamed the
unit the 2620. A few years later they stopped supporting my map
format.

I would never buy another Garmin product. They can't be trusted."


Frank

[Ed Pawlowski]

I don't know, but I'm sure there were other changes too, not just the
map format.

I find that the software for my 8088 computer won't run under Windows
7 so I'm not going to buy any new computers either. Technology
changes rapidly and we usually want the latest and greatest,
especially if there are major improvements.

[Tom J]

Frank you are cutting off your nose to spite your face!! You can buy a new
GARMIN GPS for what the maps cost back then and the new Garmin will have
liketime map updates.

I love my Garmin Street Pilot which is no longer made also but the maps are
still being updated at no additional cost!!

Tom J

[Peter H. Coffin]

The poster doesn't remember what the hell happened, and cannot be
trusted.

The 2610, 2620, 2650, and 2660 were all released at the same time in
2003. The 10 and 50 used Compact Flash cards for storage, and the 20 and
60 used micro hard drives. They all included exactly the same maps.

Garmin DID change the map formats (or at least, the compression) which
did leave the 26x0 out in the cold, but that wasn't until like ... 2009?
2010? Something like that. Call it six years after the introduction of
the 26x0 models. That might be "a few years later" but the worst is that
you end up with a GPS that doesn't have current maps. And we've had the
discussion before about how rapidly roadmaps go stale if you've got
enough brains to occasionally read a sign...

--
The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of
zeal, well-meaning but without understanding. -Justice Louis D. Brandeis

[Mike Coon]

And the screen of the Garmin GPSII+ that I bought in 1997 is utterly
unreadable (after steady deterioration). Tut, tut...

Mike.
--
If reply address is Mike@@mjcoon.+.com (invalid), remove spurious "@"
and substitute "plus" for +.

[Frank]

On 4/28/2013 10:28 PM, Peter H. Coffin wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 18:19:06 -0400, Frank wrote:
>> I copied the following from a car group and it makes no sense to me.
>> Is he right?
>>
>> "I bought a Garmin 2610 GPS when it was the top of their line. The
>> list price was about $1,000 and the street price that I paid was
>> about $800. A year later they changed the map format and renamed the
>> unit the 2620. A few years later they stopped supporting my map
>> format.
>>
>> I would never buy another Garmin product. They can't be trusted."
>
> The poster doesn't remember what the hell happened, and cannot be
> trusted.
>
> The 2610, 2620, 2650, and 2660 were all released at the same time in
> 2003. The 10 and 50 used Compact Flash cards for storage, and the 20 and
> 60 used micro hard drives. They all included exactly the same maps.
>
> Garmin DID change the map formats (or at least, the compression) which
> did leave the 26x0 out in the cold, but that wasn't until like ... 2009?
> 2010? Something like that. Call it six years after the introduction of
> the 26x0 models. That might be "a few years later" but the worst is that
> you end up with a GPS that doesn't have current maps. And we've had the
> discussion before about how rapidly roadmaps go stale if you've got
> enough brains to occasionally read a sign...
>

Thanks. I've read responses and will clip this back into the Subaru
group where this came up. OP had queried about getting a dash board
mounted gps radio and this came into thread.

I own a Nuvi 1450LMT myself.

Frank

[Patty Winter]

In article <hf6dnYLpc671QODM...@earthlink.com>,

Tom J <tomn...@earhlink.net> wrote:
>Frank wrote:
>> I copied the following from a car group and it makes no sense to me.
>> Is he right?
>>
>> "I bought a Garmin 2610 GPS when it was the top of their line. The
>> list price was about $1,000 and the street price that I paid was
>> about $800. A year later they changed the map format and renamed the
>> unit the 2620. A few years later they stopped supporting my map

>> I would never buy another Garmin product. They can't be trusted."
>
>Frank you are cutting off your nose to spite your face!!

Tom, as Frank said, it was someone else who made those comments.
That recollection didn't sound right to Frank, so that's why he
asked here.

I've never had a car-specific Garmin, but my experience with
Garmin handhelds has been great. I don't use my GPSIII+ any
more because I bought an eTrex 20 when the new eTrexes came
out, but the GPSIII+ certainly hasn't been made obsolete.


Patty

[Frank]

That's right. I cross posted back to the Subaru group this am but so
far no comments.

I've got a Nuvi 1450LMT so don't worry about maps.

I also have an earlier model eTrex that I use when hunting and the 2-3
years ago, when bought needed a map upgrade which I bought on a chip for
about $90. The eTrex map base was sparse and did even have my
development road or the road it connected to. After buying, I found
free contour maps on the internet.

My wife's got an older Nuvi and would like new maps but I told her to
just buy a new lifetime maps unit.

With Moore's law still in force computers, gps's and digital cameras and
the like are antiques after a dozen years which was point I was trying
to make to a Subaru owner that wanted to put in a full dash unit. My
son has one in his Mercedes. It's great but failed under warranty and
when he had it fixed was told if it were not under warranty repair would
have been $3,000.

[Tom J]

I saw the reply that told me I had not read your post in detail. :-(

Now about built in units - not for me!! My Street Pilot is almost as big as
many built-in units and I only need the 1 unit for all vehicles. I have a
dash mounted mount in each vehicle, so it's just a matter of pushing down in
the lock bar to release it from 1 vehicle and move it to another! Hope they
keep updating maps that work with it a few more years. At 83 years old I
won't be driving much longer. ;-)

Tom J

[Gene E. Bloch]

On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 13:50:41 -0400, Frank wrote:

> [about a] full dash unit. My

> son has one in his Mercedes. It's great but failed under warranty and
> when he had it fixed was told if it were not under warranty repair would
> have been $3,000.

Ouch. Or even OUCH.

If I had a Mercedes[1] and if, unlike your son, I was unlucky enough to
have such a failure after the warranty was up, I would have a major
shift in esthetics: a suction mount GPS would suddenly look very
attractive to me :-)

[1] For any value of "Mercedes" :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

[Frank]

I figured you had misread my post. I misread and miss-write things often.

You've got 10 years on me and I hope I'm still driving then and beyond
too ;)

Frank

[Frank]

It's a very nice car and the gps unit with Blue Tooth and voice commands
means getting hands free driving directions and making phone calls. It
also has AWD. His wife has a Subaru with AWD and for the price of the
Mercedes, he could have gotten 2 Subarus. Her gps is a Garmin Nuvi.

[Frank]

On 4/30/2013 6:33 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <klmbng$96m$1...@dont-email.me>,

> Frank <frankdo...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> I've got a Nuvi 1450LMT so don't worry about maps.
>

> You will when they change file formats to something that you can't load
> onto your unit.
>
> You do know that "lifetime" doesn't mean lifetime, right?
>

What, me worry? I would not expect the unit itself to last a lifetime.
OTOH if they screwed me like this that would be the end of me as a
customer. It happened last fall when I got this new computer with Win8
and Cannon refused to update scanner drivers with new Win7. No problem
with other peripherals, so it's Bye, bye Cannon.

[Moe DeLoughan]

On 4/30/2013 5:33 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <klmbng$96m$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Frank <frankdo...@comcast.net> wrote:
>

>> I've got a Nuvi 1450LMT so don't worry about maps.
>

> You will when they change file formats to something that you can't load
> onto your unit.
>
> You do know that "lifetime" doesn't mean lifetime, right?
>

To be more exact: it doesn't mean *your* lifetime, it means the
projected usuable lifetime of the device.

[Tom J]

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <klolv3$k85$1...@speranza.aioe.org>,

> To be more exact: it doesn't mean your lifetime, nor does it mean
> your expectation of the projected usable lifetime of the device.
>
> It means whatever the hell *Garmin* decides it means at any given
> moment.
>
> Doubt that? Read the fine print on those "lifetime" maps.

I'm still way ahead since they switched to "Life Time" maps. I like it way
more than the old way of paying for every update!!

Tom J

[Frank]

On 5/1/2013 6:13 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <xqidnddvsqAZHB3M...@earthlink.com>,

> "Tom J" <tomn...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>> It means whatever the hell *Garmin* decides it means at any given
>>> moment.
>>>
>>> Doubt that? Read the fine print on those "lifetime" maps.
>>
>> I'm still way ahead since they switched to "Life Time" maps. I like it way
>> more than the old way of paying for every update!!
>

> Why update at *all*?
>
> You're not "ahead" unless you count being obsessive about having the
> latest maps. Were you that way with paper maps?
>
> Another thought: buy a new Garmin every two-three years, it comes with
> new maps AND a whole new device with newer/better features.
>
> Also, I could spend five bucks a month for the Google service on my
> current Nuvi, and always have current information that feeds directly to
> the navigation part of the unit.
>

Might comment that roads don't change that much but businesses do.
New businesses are constantly popping up in shopping centers and old
ones disappear. Particularly true with restaurants. Hotels down town
seem to swap buildings every 4-5 years for tax advantage. New gps maps
would pick this all up.

Bothersome thing about life time maps, I believe I've mentioned before,
is time it takes to update, usually overnight and one glitch in isp
service makes you have to do it again. Garmin rep tried to explain it
to me but made no sense since I can download other stuff much faster.

[Peter H. Coffin]

On Wed, 01 May 2013 09:04:53 -0400, Frank wrote:
> Bothersome thing about life time maps, I believe I've mentioned before,
> is time it takes to update, usually overnight and one glitch in isp
> service makes you have to do it again. Garmin rep tried to explain it
> to me but made no sense since I can download other stuff much faster.

Web-updater used to work much better than the Lifetime Updater. I
haven't seen the new thing in action enough to know if it's better or
not. (Which remindes me. I need a bigger micro-SD card...)

--
36. I will not imprison members of the same party in the same cell
block, let alone the same cell. If they are important prisoners, I
will keep the only key to the cell door on my person instead of
handing out copies to every bottom-rung guard in the prison. --EOList

[Tom J]

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <xqidnddvsqAZHB3M...@earthlink.com>,
> "Tom J" <tomn...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>

>>> It means whatever the hell *Garmin* decides it means at any given
>>> moment.
>>>
>>> Doubt that? Read the fine print on those "lifetime" maps.
>>
>> I'm still way ahead since they switched to "Life Time" maps. I like
>> it way more than the old way of paying for every update!!
>

> Why update at *all*?

When you are traveling all over North America as many of us do, you need
current maps. New interchanges are being added, new roads are being added
and just the reverse, interchanges and roads are being removed.

If you are just going to the grocery and liquor store, you are correct, you
don't need updates OR the GPS!

Tom J

[Tom J]

Peter H. Coffin wrote:
> On Wed, 01 May 2013 09:04:53 -0400, Frank wrote:
>> Bothersome thing about life time maps, I believe I've mentioned
>> before, is time it takes to update, usually overnight and one glitch
>> in isp service makes you have to do it again. Garmin rep tried to
>> explain it to me but made no sense since I can download other stuff
>> much faster.
>
> Web-updater used to work much better than the Lifetime Updater. I
> haven't seen the new thing in action enough to know if it's better or
> not. (Which remindes me. I need a bigger micro-SD card...)

I don't know which I use, but I plug in my Street Pilot, search for the
update, and if it finds a new update, it's finishes in 15 to 20 minutes.
This is with an old Dell 1501 lap top running Windows XP. I do have high
speed internet connections at home which is the difference!!

Tom J

[willshak]

Mother's Day is Sunday May 12th. :-)

>
> With Moore's law still in force computers, gps's and digital cameras and
> the like are antiques after a dozen years which was point I was trying
> to make to a Subaru owner that wanted to put in a full dash unit. My
> son has one in his Mercedes. It's great but failed under warranty and
> when he had it fixed was told if it were not under warranty repair would
> have been $3,000.

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

[Owen McKenzie]

On 5/1/2013 10:15 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <klr3ni$1ev$1...@dont-email.me>,

> Frank <frankdo...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>> Another thought: buy a new Garmin every two-three years, it comes with
>>> new maps AND a whole new device with newer/better features.
>>>
>>> Also, I could spend five bucks a month for the Google service on my
>>> current Nuvi, and always have current information that feeds directly to
>>> the navigation part of the unit.
>>>
>>
>> Might comment that roads don't change that much but businesses do.
>> New businesses are constantly popping up in shopping centers and old
>> ones disappear. Particularly true with restaurants. Hotels down town
>> seem to swap buildings every 4-5 years for tax advantage. New gps maps
>> would pick this all up.
>

> But you just made my point: roads don't change, but businesses do.
>
> And having cellular-delivered Google search on the device, which feeds
> coordinates to the device, solves that problem nicely.
>
Not to long ago we wintered in the Mesa, AZ area, & a friend there
convinced me to add the map program to my Verizon. We were going to a
newer restaurant & Gamin didn't have it, so I tried the phone which
didn't either. When we got there I asked them when they opened and it
had been over a year.

--

Owen McKenzie
Posting from St. Lucia West Indies

"It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument."
-- William G. McAdoo

[Tom J]

It's like being listed in the Yellew Pages - they didn't pay to get entered
in the map program.

Tom J

[Peter H. Coffin]

On Thu, 2 May 2013 12:07:13 -0400, Tom J wrote:

> Owen McKenzie wrote:
>
>> Not to long ago we wintered in the Mesa, AZ area, & a friend there
>> convinced me to add the map program to my Verizon. We were going to a
>> newer restaurant & Gamin didn't have it, so I tried the phone which
>> didn't either. When we got there I asked them when they opened and it
>> had been over a year.
>
> It's like being listed in the Yellew Pages - they didn't pay to get
> entered in the map program.

Uhm, no. Nobody pays to be in there. There is, however, a lot of lag
for some kinds of establishments, feeding to centralized lists of
businesses run by the likes of Dun & Bradstreet, which then get sold to
organizations that create the POI lists for their own purposes, on their
own schedules. Plus, the fastest routes into those lists of addresses
are by legal incorporation registrations, which may or may not list the
name of the restaurant as it's displayed on the sign. "Stuffer Shack"
might be the sign name, but in the paperwork, it's "Rollo Smith Cuisine,
LLC", with an unknown industry classification because Rollo didn't fill
that part out on the incorporation charter filing, so it's 9999 in D&B's
list and maybe the POI list dropped it on the floor because they didn't
know what kind of icon to put on the map entry.

--
17. When I employ people as advisors, I will occasionally listen to
their advice.
--Peter Anspach's list of things to do as an Evil Overlord

[Owen McKenzie]

It was a new location of a major chain, I believe it was Logan's Roadhouse.

[Andrew]

If you got a new computer with Win8, why would you want Win7 drivers -
which in your case wouldn't be "new" anyway?? Something doesn't make
sense in your post.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Regards -

- Andrew

[Frank]

Just saw this. I have WIN8 but Canon had stopped making updated drivers
after Vista and Vista drivers would not work. Contrast with my old HP
printer which might be 10 years old but still works on WIN8.

[Peter H. Coffin]

A lot of older scanners lost support from their manufacturers with the
end of XP. No signed drivers for Win 7 consequentially means no support
for 8 either. Frank probably never owned a Win7 machine at all; the leap
from 7 being new to 8 being new was four years, but there's a LOT of
people out there that don't bother to buy computers even that often.

--
Lisa: There's going to be sex, drugs, rock'n'roll. Chips, dips,
chains, whips.
-- "Weird Science"

[Ed Pawlowski]

On Sun, 26 May 2013 09:56:58 -0400, Andrew <And...@invalid.com> wrote:



>>
>> What, me worry? I would not expect the unit itself to last a lifetime.
>> OTOH if they screwed me like this that would be the end of me as a
>> customer. It happened last fall when I got this new computer with Win8
>> and Cannon refused to update scanner drivers with new Win7. No problem
>> with other peripherals, so it's Bye, bye Cannon.
>
>If you got a new computer with Win8, why would you want Win7 drivers -
>which in your case wouldn't be "new" anyway?? Something doesn't make
>sense in your post.

The real question, unless you have a tablet, why would you want Win8
anyway? MS is working on a new version of W8 that looks like W7 and
it will be an "upgrade".

[nob...@nada.com]

You can already get that with StartIsBack. You'll have to part with $3
if you keep using it. There are others that claim to do the same
thing, but I haven't tried them. Google "win 8 start" for more.

[Larry]

A real solution to a lot of problems, just bring XP back and improve
it without changing the way everything looks.
--
Larry
Citrus County Florida

[Peter H. Coffin]

Not really relevant -- If you bought a computer that came with Win8,
that's what you've got. Downgrading *might* be possible, but that's not
guaranteed. There may not be an accessible way to get mfr-specific
drivers to install properly.

As for why scanner manufacturers don't release signed drivers for
five-year-old hardware? Well, it's five-year-old hardware that they're
not making any money on and new scanners are $70.

--
Compared to system administration, being cursed forever is a step up.
-- Paul Tomko

[nob...@nada.com]

I'm not seeing why MS needs to make it look different every time. I
guess if it looked the same no one would buy it. They're not buying
win8 in any case.

Win8 may make sense on a touch screen but not on a desktop. Why they
can't just make two OSs with different markets is beyond me.