Garmin Streetpilot for N America IPhone App Out of Date

[Bob Brown]

We just bought the Garmin N America app for IPhone. I did some searches
for POI's for local restaurants and stores. It was showing some that
have been out of business for over 5 years! We live in Kahului, HI.

I also checked for some businesses in Austin, TX that I know have been
out of business for two years and they still show up (Borders bookstores
closed a couple years ago).

I contacted Garmin who said what I expected they'd say: they get their
info from a third party source so it's out of their control.

Would somebody please check with their automobile GPS from Garmin that
is up-to-date and see if this is happening in them too. Borders
bookstores have all closed as far as I know. This is something that a
lot of people could look up.

I have a Garmin GPS that's a few years old and out-of-date. I looked at
this app as a option instead of updating the GPS. Now it seems that even
if I get a new GPS, it's going to be out-of-date too. Having old info is
just a bad as not having new info.

Thanks.

[Klatch]

On 4/22/2012 6:20 PM, Bob Brown wrote:
<snip>

>
> I contacted Garmin who said what I expected they'd say: they get their
> info from a third party source so it's out of their control.
>
> Would somebody please check with their automobile GPS from Garmin that
> is up-to-date and see if this is happening in them too. Borders
> bookstores have all closed as far as I know. This is something that a
> lot of people could look up.
>
> I have a Garmin GPS that's a few years old and out-of-date. I looked at
> this app as a option instead of updating the GPS. Now it seems that even
> if I get a new GPS, it's going to be out-of-date too. Having old info is
> just a bad as not having new info.
>
> Thanks.

The POI data is a function of the installed maps. The FPS is not
out-of-date, but the maps may be. That said, even the latest maps may
contain POI errors.

[Klatch]

Duh, GPS...

[Unquestionably Confused]

On 4/22/2012 5:20 PM, Bob Brown wrote:

>
> I contacted Garmin who said what I expected they'd say: they get their
> info from a third party source so it's out of their control.
>
> Would somebody please check with their automobile GPS from Garmin that
> is up-to-date and see if this is happening in them too. Borders
> bookstores have all closed as far as I know. This is something that a
> lot of people could look up.
>
> I have a Garmin GPS that's a few years old and out-of-date. I looked at
> this app as a option instead of updating the GPS. Now it seems that even
> if I get a new GPS, it's going to be out-of-date too. Having old info is
> just a bad as not having new info.

Something so obvious as Border's having closed up shop (within the past
12-18 months (rather than a few years)) should be obvious to anyone who
is bright enough to NOT follow GPS directions that take you through a
two mile wide lake. Right?

Those POI's also come equipped with telephone numbers. Before I deviate
from a given route by more than a couple blocks to make a food stop or
whatever, I do something really sneaky, I or my wife CALLS the freakin'
number and checks to make sure they're open. Not a bad idea even it the
POI happens to be a Chili's or McDonald's depending upon the time of
day, right?

[Holger Issle]

On Sun, 22 Apr 2012 12:20:58 -1000, Bob Brown wrote:

>We just bought the Garmin N America app for IPhone. I did some searches
>for POI's for local restaurants and stores. It was showing some that
>have been out of business for over 5 years!

As others have said already, POI data is supplied with the map from
http://www.navteq.com/ - and there you can find the borders bookstore
in Austin as well. So it is in their map....

Not sure about the iphone version of the garmin software, but at least
in the Garmin devices (nuvi, zumo, and maybe others) you can load
additional POI data and search for. In Europe there are several
databases with speed traps, fuel stations, restaurants, fast food, and
loads of others. This data is usually user maintained and hence up to
day - yes, day, not "date" ;)
--

Ciao,
Holger (GUS-KOTAL, GUS#1100, GRR#51)

90-92 Honda CB400 10 Mm | 93-95 Yamaha TDM 850 26 Mm
95-97 KTM 620 LC4 13 Mm | seit 97 BMW R1100GS 81 Mm (Die Renndrecksau!)

cu @ http://www.issle.de

[Peter H. Coffin]

On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 07:23:13 +0200, Holger Issle wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Apr 2012 12:20:58 -1000, Bob Brown wrote:
>
>>We just bought the Garmin N America app for IPhone. I did some searches
>>for POI's for local restaurants and stores. It was showing some that
>>have been out of business for over 5 years!
>
> As others have said already, POI data is supplied with the map from
> http://www.navteq.com/ - and there you can find the borders bookstore
> in Austin as well. So it is in their map....

And Navteq gets POI information from elsewhere. There are several
"comprehensive business directories" out there that gather information
from telephone company data dumps and government business license
databses, supplemented with cross-references from more general purpose
directory of business information such as Dun&Bradstreet or Bureau Van
Dyke. The mapmakers aren't going to update more often than they make map
releases, if that. Telephone dumps can be months behind (as defunct
business don't always tidily cancel service and may instead let the
bill-paying lapse while the account drags through Collections), business
license often allow non-communication of a year or two to elapse before
taking any action to clear active records, and D&B and BVD can go years
between following up with the companies involved. The sum of this is
that it can be easily 2-3 years before enough "this ain't there anymore"
data accumulated for the main list vendor pulls a record off the pile.
(Add this in with the fact that the more records, regardless of
staleness, mean more valuable database to management of all levels, and
there's not a whole lot of drive to clean things out that aren't being
replaced by other things...)

> Not sure about the iphone version of the garmin software, but at least
> in the Garmin devices (nuvi, zumo, and maybe others) you can load
> additional POI data and search for. In Europe there are several
> databases with speed traps, fuel stations, restaurants, fast food, and
> loads of others. This data is usually user maintained and hence up to
> day - yes, day, not "date" ;)

Yeah, but the mobile apps aren't generally querying those sources. On a
commercial level, data that isn't paid for might as well not exist, and
paid-for data tends to cost by frequency and quanitity of records
pulled. So you don't tend to get live access to free source data. You
get cached data stored by your application vendor, and refreshed at the
slowest rate they can get away with, because frequency is part of that
expense.

--
72. If all the heroes are standing together around a strange device and
begin to taunt me, I will pull out a conventional weapon instead of
using my unstoppable superweapon on them.
--Peter Anspach's list of things to do as an Evil Overlord

[Holger Issle]

Hi Peter,

>"comprehensive business directories"
They are paid per number of records? Interesting ;)

>>This data is usually user maintained and hence up to
>> day - yes, day, not "date" ;)
>
>Yeah, but the mobile apps aren't generally querying those sources. On a
>commercial level,

You misunderstood. These databases over here are filled by users, the
people running the db do not work on the content. With that accuracy
is pretty high, and the reuslt is available in Garmin POI-Loader
format. Not sure if the iphone app can deal with POI-Loader generated
content.

[Peter H. Coffin]

On Mon, 23 Apr 2012 14:46:37 +0200, Holger Issle wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
>>"comprehensive business directories"
> They are paid per number of records? Interesting ;)

Oh yes. Not necessarily per-each, but 25 million records is "worth more"
than 20 million records.

>
>>>This data is usually user maintained and hence up to
>>> day - yes, day, not "date" ;)
>>
>>Yeah, but the mobile apps aren't generally querying those sources. On a
>>commercial level,
>
> You misunderstood. These databases over here are filled by users, the
> people running the db do not work on the content.

I understood perfectly. I help run a very similar system that tracks the
location of publically-accessable pinball machines.

> With that accuracy
> is pretty high, and the reuslt is available in Garmin POI-Loader
> format. Not sure if the iphone app can deal with POI-Loader generated
> content.

There is such a POI-loader. Which is actual evidence of my point: you
have to load POIs. Which means it cannot be more current than the last
loaded set, which cannot be more current than the last time someone
updated the record in the database, which will not be more current than
the last time someone cared about that location. *Could it be* more
current than the POIs loaded with a garmin-supplied mapset? Sure. Is it
likely to be more current across an assortment of POIs randomly
selected? Probably not.

--
I love ASR, you have total freedom of speech as long as it's
punctuated correctly. -- Chris Hacking in a.s.r

[Gene E. Bloch]

On 4/22/2012, Unquestionably Confused posted:

> Something so obvious as Border's having closed up shop (within the past 12-18
> months (rather than a few years)) should be obvious to anyone who is bright
> enough to NOT follow GPS directions that take you through a two mile wide
> lake. Right?

Or you could be like me.

I was near another Barnes and Noble store 15 or 20 miles from home and
drove over there to look for a book I was seeking, knowing that since
it wasn't Border's, it would be open.

Well, so much for my memory. It was a Border's and is now boasting a
For Lease sign.

I accomplished the above without a GPS device :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)