alt.satanism Frequently Asked Question file
tyaginator
Version: 2.0
Revised: 01-28-05
Posting-Frequency: monthly or when desired
======================================================================
The Satanic Reds - Social Realists alt.satanism FAQ v 1.0
by Founders of SR Org.
======================================================================
TABLE OF CONTENTS
======================================================================
I Satanic Reds - Social Realism and Satanism in General
-------------------------------------------------------
1) Why do you call yourselves Satanic Reds?
2) Are you Satanists?
3) What is the Satan that SR espouses?
3.1) What does this SR Satanism, or Dark Tradition basically
consist of?
4) Satan has always been seen as the Dark Lord, Dark Principle, or
Dark Force. Does this tie it back to the Christian or horror-show view?
5) Isn't some of that Dark Tradition Satanic stuff syncretistic or a
synthesis of many things?
5.1) Do you have any roots in Chaos Magic or Magick?
5.2) Do you have any roots in Thelema?
5.3) Do you have any roots in Theosophy?
5.4) Do you have any roots in the Witchcraft or Wicca movement?
5.5) Do you have any roots in LaVeyan Satanism?
5.6) Do you have any roots in the Temple of Set?
5.7) Do you have roots in Atheism?
5.8) What exactly are the Roots of Satanic Reds, when it comes to
the Dark Tradition?
II Political and Philosophical Issues - Social Realism
------------------------------------------------------
6) Is the SR capitalist, socialist, or communist?
7) Why do you insist on 10 political statements for membership
qualification and not on a belief system?
7.1) What are the political statements?
7.2) Does a person have to belong to any specific political party?
8) Does SR regard people that feel this dark force and flame as
better than those who do not?
9) What is the hammer and sickle in your sigil?
10) What do you use the pentacle for?
III The Satanic Reds Organization
---------------------------------
11) You are not like other satanic organizations out there at all.
Why not?
12) Are you a hierarchical organization with a hierarchy of titles
such as Priest(ess), Magus, etc.?
13) Is there anything a person has to do if they join?
14) FD Roosevelt, who is mentioned a lot in your socio-politics, was
an American President. Is SR for Americans only?
15) Why don't you charge money for membership?
16) Why have you made so much of this information public to people?
17) If members can make their own covens or grottos for magickal
workings, how does that work in connection to the SR organization
itself?
18) Can members make a magazine for the organization on their own?
19) What if some members don't get along with other members or have
disagreements? Can they get kicked out for that? Do the founders
step in?
20) Are you against other Satanic organizations or any other
organizations?
IV Further Information
----------------------
21) Where can I read more about Left Hand Path Traditions on the web?
22) Where can I read more about Social Realism on the web?
23) Are there hard copy documents that elaborate on this further?
==================================================
The Satanic Reds - Social Realists
alt.satanism FAQ
by Founders of SR Org.
==================================================
1) Why do you call yourselves Satanic Reds?
==================================================
We call ourselves this because we are Satanic in the sense of Sat and Tan,
the Dark Doctrines or Dark Tradition. We are Red in the sense of radical
(though the association with that color seems to have changed in the USA
recently to mean conservative). Red has always been associated with "Red
Devil."
==================================================
2) Are you Satanists?
==================================================
The answer to that is yes and no - because it would entirely depend on what
you mean by the word "Satanist." First of all, using the word "Satan,"
Carducci, in his "Hymn To Satan," echoed the same concepts and ideas we echo
for Social Realism; and Michael Bakunin regarded Satan in the same manner as
us when we speak of Social Realism. When Jules Michelet wrote Satanism and
Witchcraft, a book that the majority of people interested in the Left Hand
Path or Wicca had back before the late 1960s, it was about exploited
peasants rallying around a mythic-heroic figure: Satan - in opposition to an
oppressive Christian political feudalism of that time period.
However, for the many people familiar with the
entity/force/character/being/God Nyarlathotep in Lovecraft's tales, they'd
know that Nyarlathotep is the Soul and Essence of all the Old Ones, the
Messenger of Absolute Chaos and also the Black Man of the Witches, i.e.,
incarnated or posing as a human-like figure. Nyarlathotep was also the
character Lovecraft dreamed about before he ever tried to write about it.
Fans or anyone familiar with this would recognize that Nyarlathotep is a
definite stand in for Satan. However, Professor Robert M. Price is a highly
educated professor of Theology with two degrees in Theology. Professor
Price also taught Eastern Esoteric Tradition in a university. As written
down (i.e., not an oral tradition), this tradition is Tibetan; it is not
Hindu. Professor Price, in "Crypt of Cthulhu, " vol. 1, number 2, page 8
wrote of the Tibetans: that: we know what their name for that primal Oneness
was - the undifferentiated "Chaos" is Nyarlathotep. In other words, if
people in these cultures were to use a name from the Mythos of Lovecraft and
his circle to name what we in SR write of as "Asat Sat" or Mahakala or Sri
Kala Chakra, that name would be Nyarlathotep. Long prior to Robert Price
writing this essay, the forerunners of SR org were using such "mythos" words
instead of standard words: the word we used for the Void or Boundless
Darkness was Nyarlathotep. (This is covered thoroughly in section 5.8:
What exactly are the Roots of Satanic Reds, when it comes to the Dark
Tradition?)
No matter what Left Hand Path you follow, or even if it's some alternate
religion magickal Right Hand Path, no matter what you or your culture call
it, the political forces of reaction present in some countries call it ALL
Satanism or Satanic. They consider Wicca, most of Hinduism, all of Tantra,
Taoism, most of New Age, Voodoo and even, in some places, the Jewish
religion and Atheism to be Satanic, too; depending on which fanatics you
speak to. Some fanatics call the Pope in the Vatican "the Beast" and
consider the Catholic religion "a Satanic Cult." Some fanatics consider
Mohammed, the Prophet of the Moslems, to be a "Satanic Terrorist." And so
forth. So there is the RADICAL reason for us to call ourselves Satanic: it's
radical and in your face. So, even followers of mainstream monotheistic
religions are not immune from the brand "Satanic."
Some of the members and founders of the SR prefer to see what we represent
as wholly outside such Western notions of Satan or Satanism. Then again,
there are many others that categorically state that the Dark Tradition is
Real Satanism.
==================================================
3) What is the Satan that SR espouses?
==================================================
The Satan in the Dark Tradition we espouse is Sat and Tan, Being and
Becoming, and we don't accept the Judeo-Christian concepts for "Satan" at
all. We are making a pun out of Sat and Tan and we are the first
organization to ever do that. Then again, if what we know as the Boundless
Chaotic Darkness is Nyarlathotep in our own older non-standard lingo, and
Nyarlathotep is Satan, it stands to reason that we are talking about a Satan
that is not what any Judaic, Christian or Islamic people think it is. The
SR org sticks to standard words, even if they are foreign words.
This system is from an ancient tradition that is 1. genuinely Left Hand
Path, 2. has a Boundless Darkness as the Prime Force, 3. has a "flaming
light" within the Darkness that flashes out and becomes all things due to
the Urge of the Boundless Darkness, 4. has that Dark Flame as being within
people, IF they let it flow. Only people with that Flame within can self
actualize, if they choose to do that. Here are examples: Sat: The one
ever-present Reality in the infinite world; the divine essence which IS, but
cannot be said to "exist" because it is Absoluteness, or Being-ness Itself.
Satta: the One and Sole Existence. Sattva: Understanding; quiescence in
divine knowledge; a Bodhisattva is a person that possesses this. Satya:
Supreme Truth. Satya Yuga: the Golden Age of the age of truth, actually the
first Yuga, but often equated with the Trita Yuga (last age). Tan means to
"stretch forth" to "become." Words such as Tantra, Tanmatri have the root
word "tan" in them.
As for Sat and Tan, legitimate words: It is highly possible that the Hebrews
committed a cultural inversion on the word Sat, since they did have contact
with Persians who definitely DID invert ALL the ancient Sanskrit (Shivaite)
concepts. The Hebrews did not invert the word Tan because the Tanaim, in
Hebrew, are those who "know what the angels know." The Tanaim are the True
Magi. This type of Sat/Tan Dark Doctrines Satanism can be seen in various
organizations that run in various ways, localized or loosely connected. This
type of Satanism includes the Pythagorean system on the pentacle (the
pentalphas), which correspond to the Five Dharmas, and the pentamychos
system, which corresponds to the fearsome or towo aspects that defend the
Dharmas or Five Principles. The Five principles, as seen in nature, are
parts of what the Dark Force IN Nature does, as it permeates and motivates
all of nature. More on exactly what we define for our organization can be
seen in "The Nine Postulates of Satan" at this location
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/9-sat-tan.html
==================================================
3.1) What does this SR Satanism, or Dark Tradition basically consist of?
==================================================
The Dark Tradition is an emanation doctrine about the Boundless Darkness,
(No Name, Aditi, Ain Soph, Apeiron, etc.) and the Flame, (Viraj, Vajra,
Logos, Chi, etc.). The Flame is in that All Pervading Darkness and from
that, there is the doctrine of Being and Becoming.
1. Unknown - Boundless Darkness (or Thatness). - That which is Formless
(Arupa).
2. Non-Being and Being (Asat and Sat). The intermediate being-state is
BECOMING or stretching forth (Tan). This happens out of Necessity.
3. Emanation of a Light, a Flame as a 7-fold Formed (Rupa) and Ordered
substance that Became all material (space/time, matter/energy) things.
4. Infusion and permeation of the Darkness as a 5-fold formless chaotic
"force" of some kind, into the 7 which, in turn, drives all things on to
ever greater change, complexity and diversity, relentlessly driving it on to
change, to Become.
This Doctrine totally unlike a creation doctrine; it is very much unlike
paganism with many gods and goddess and half-godling "children of" the
gods/goddesses. It is not dualistic at all. It is not for everyone! One is
either Of It, or they are not.
In addition, there are elaborations: how that darkness is always categorized
in 5 distinct ways as it acts on "the nature" around us and how the Flame is
within us as Kundalini. How the Flame comes into living beings from the All
Pervading Darkness, goes through living things as a Flame or kind of "Light"
and then returns to that One Darkness. How the All Pervading Darkness itself
never increases or decreases all the time this goes on. There are also
doctrines about what lacks this Flame within. There is no judgment on such
people. It is just that the Tradition is not told to them - hence it is
esoteric. (Times have changed). I could say it this way: Aditi, Vach, Viraj
are the same things, recognizable to anyone that knows this, as Kether,
Binah, Hochmah. Same things.
This is one solid tradition amongst MANY whole cultures, parts of cultures
and peoples. It is universally said to have been The Adamantine Doctrine by
which all society was governed in a "Golden Age" during the Satya Yuga which
is a prior world age (some systems have other names for the last world age).
It is distinct from the trinity traditions, distinct from the dualistic
traditions, which oppose light and dark. It is distinct from paganism. It is
distinct from the solar cults. It is NOT a salvation doctrine nor is there
any kind of notion of a "personal anthropomorphic-type Being" in the One
Darkness.
It has nothing to do with rebelliousness or the mundane world of the herd
and hypocrisy. It has nothing to do with that pro or con - all that is
irrelevant. understood and practiced.
We have unified what belongs together as a core doctrine: The Dark
Tradition.
==================================================
4) Satan has always been seen as the Dark Lord, Dark Principle, or Dark
Force. Does this tie it back to the Christian or horror-show view?
==================================================
No. The Sat is Being/Truth. Mahakala is "Dark Lord of Transcendent
Awareness." Sri Kala Chakra is "Lord Time Devourer." Karabog is "Black God"
perceived more as a non-centralized force or spirit in everything. Our use
of "Dark Lord" or "dark force" ties back to these things. Seeing, and above
all feeling this force/principle/etc. as permeating and motivating all of
nature, Satanists and others have revered this as either an Atheistic force,
Deistic Principle, or Theistic Deity. Keep in mind that the Flame that burns
in us and flows as Kundalini comes from this Boundless Darkness and returns
to it. We do revere our own Flame!
==================================================
5) Isn't some of that Dark Tradition Satanic stuff syncretistic or a
synthesis of many things?
==================================================
Yes. What we present, especially in the sold Monographs, is the Dark
Tradition stripped of cultural baggage that was added much later by various
cultures. This tradition is not in all cultures, but it is in some cultures
in part or in whole, and we do write about these and explain it in detail
without degenerating into the abstract or the hypermystical.
Incorporated into the Dark Traditions are all things that touch on it or
focus on it: Hermeticism, certain aspects of the Kaballa, Taoism, certain
whole schools of Tantra, Shivaism and Vedanta wherefrom we get the words Sat
and Tan. It is interesting that the root word Sat in modern Sanskrit means
Truth of the inner kind. In the West this, as Satan got inverted to mean the
Lie, or Satan as the Father of Lies. This could be one of the earliest known
examples of cultural inversion, as just explained.
==================================================
5.1) Do you have any roots in Chaos Magic or Magick?
==================================================
No, none. They sort of have their roots in us from way back! Some of them do
notice similarities. We used to have the entire Dark Tradition "translated"
into a kind of HPL/Derleth/et.al. mythos lingo that various non-public
groups used. Many Chaos Magicians caught the trend. Some of the old timers
in that movement do see a strong similarity with some of the Dark Tradition
information. See Hermeto-Tantrik Mythos for an interesting read, if you are
familiar with that, located here:
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/hermet-mythos.html.
==================================================
5.2) Do you have any roots in Thelema?
==================================================
No, though there are definite similarities that Thelemites in the Satanic
Reds Organization recognize and have written about. Crowley did study some
Eastern Traditions, therefore there will be similarities, just as there will
be similarities seen by some that have studied Gurdjieff.
==================================================
5.3) Do you have any roots in Theosophy?
==================================================
No, though there are a few Theosophists in our organization that think we
present the Real Deal in a very pure form with nothing hidden away.
Blavatsky certainly saw some of the same basic core Doctrines that the
Satanic Reds know of, but she altered them to suit her own Right Hand Path
purposes and either put some Hinayana into them or Christianized them. Some
of the text in "The Darkness is One," which was made into a song by Tani
Jantsang in the early 1960s, is remarkably similar to the Hindu Creation
Myth and to what Blavatsky took, however she took it pretty far from the
original non-human, cosmogenic intention.
==================================================
5.4) Do you have any roots in the Witchcraft or Wicca movement?
==================================================
No, though there are Wiccans in our organization that resonate to the "feel"
of it.
==================================================
5.5) Do you have any roots in LaVeyan Satanism?
==================================================
No, absolutely none, though LaVey did hand out two high titles to two of the
founders of Satanic Reds, but these people never used these titles on
anything they ever wrote or sold. The "spirit" of the Dark Tradition might
be said to be anathema to the "spirit" of anything LaVeyan, despite the fact
that LaVey handed out those titles for the Dark Tradition information.
==================================================
5.6) Do you have any roots in the Temple of Set?
==================================================
No, none, though there are some Setians that see a strong similarity between
their Set concept and The Sat. We both have the Doctrine of Becoming in our
organizations.
==================================================
5.7) Do you have roots in Atheism?
==================================================
No. though some atheists read our stuff and translate it easily into big
bang science and biology.
==================================================
5.8) What exactly are the Roots of Satanic Reds, when it comes to the Dark
Tradition?
==================================================
Since that is a rather long document, you may find that information at this
url:
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/sr-roots.html
==================================================
6) Is the SR capitalist, socialist, or communist?
==================================================
We are sort of both. Dirigist capitalism is a form of Socialism! We speak of
the Bill of Rights and the New Deal. Forces of reaction have made absurd
slanders against programs that benefited all hard-working people. They have
many times called President F.D. Roosevelt a RED! Well, if F. D. Roosevelt
is a Red, then so are we!
The point is this: any kind of social planning necessary to have in a whole
nation, especially a modern one, that serves to benefit the hard-working
people, present workers or retired workers, gets labeled Red. Even liberals
are called Red! Anyone who is TOLERANT is labeled a Red! Anyone who is in
favor of women's rights, feminism, gay rights, and against racism is called
a Red! In fact, anyone in favor of tolerance toward alternative religions is
called a Red or a "pinko commie." This is not new! And so, we call ourselves
REDS!
==================================================
7) Why do you insist on 10 political statements for membership qualification
and not on a belief system?
==================================================
Because those 10 statements are political in the practical sense, but on a
much higher or inner sense, they are spiritual. People who tend to agree
with self serving things that also serve others, have a good, balanced
character.
==================================================
7.1) What are the political statements?
==================================================
1. Do you agree that WORKERS should be paid a livable wage, a wage that
Labor Unions would probably demand, and that workers have a right to
organize? A neighborhood and/or community filled with overworked and
underpaid workers eventually becomes a slum since the people living next to
you can't afford the necessities of life with a few frills. A stress filled
community is a dangerous community.
2. Do you agree that HEALTH CARE is not a privilege but a Human Right that
all citizens should have in a civilized technological country? Included in
this would be Medicare for our formerly hard-working elderly folks who are
now losing all the money they worked honestly and hard for due to the high
cost of prescription drugs. Included in this is the strengthening of the
Social Security System which once guaranteed a continued good life after
retiring from a life of work. Sick people who can't afford health care could
spread the plague. Plagues do not discriminate between rich or poor.
3. Do you agree that PUBLIC EDUCATION should be available to all citizens,
not just in primary and secondary schools, but including day-care if
necessary and up through college for all who qualify in a race/gender blind
merit system where the best, no matter who they are, are encouraged to
excel? This would mean an EQUAL RIGHT, blind equal rights, to excel or fail
in a public education system. An educated nation is a civilized nation.
Educated people are informed people.
4. Do you agree that CORPORATE WELFARE must stop - and that money needs to
get back to the workers who make everything, and not drain out to the big
corporations? Corporations have the same rights as citizens, but right now
they do not have to abide by the same laws governing citizens. They should
be made to. When they harm the workers, they harm the country that the
workers live in.
5. Do you believe in stringently maintaining a SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND
STATE so that people not only have freedom OF religion, but also freedom
FROM religion if they so choose? Right now, Congress can make no laws
regarding religion. But City Ordinances can be passed and States can make laws.
6. Do you believe in striving for a clean and healthy ENVIRONMENT and an end
to needless environmental destruction? This includes ANIMAL RIGHTS for
animals other than human animals when it comes to non-health care uses of
animals. Animals need not be slaughtered for vanity purposes. This entails
working for clean energy (or cleaner) and making this affordable to all
citizens. Note that this does not mean we are anti-technology or Luddites;
we are in favor of new technology being developed and used (we already have
much of it) to create a less wasteful and clean environment.
7. Do you believe that the Multi-national corporations and Trans-national
corporations need to HIRE OUR OWN CITIZENS and not wander outside for cheap
labor (who are like SCABS in Union talk)? A scab is a person that works for
super low wages and takes your job away from you. You can't possibly live on
a wage as low as the scab is working for - for instance, $1.00 an hour.
8. Do you believe in cutting the military budget and putting more of our own
tax dollars to the service of the people? This incorporates the idea that we
need not fear foreign invasion if people own guns! This includes the idea
that we don't need to waste tax payer's money on being the "police of the
world" or trying to solve the problems of other sovereign nations. The
military budget need not be used to make MORE nuclear weapons, it could be
used to enhance the nation and definitely, for the quality of life of the
men and women that are in the military. The old G. I. Bill was much better
than the new one in terms of quality of life for our armed forces.
9. Do you believe that in any civilized society that PEOPLE should be put
BEFORE PROFITS? Keep in mind, the key word here is CIVILIZED.
10. Do you agree with us on these very important issues pertaining to
Occultism of any kind: we are DEAD AGAINST bloody rituals and/or human or
animal sacrifices; we are DEAD AGAINST policies that promote sexual
relations with children - and by that we mean CHILDREN, not males and
females who are nubile and already having sex or who live in countries that
promote marriage of younger people who are nubile (physically and
biologically at the child-bearing age). We mean children. Support for
anything like this is one of the biggest dangers threatening Occultism
and/or Alternate Religion. Groups that have links to such things, or
organizations that advocate them, have their own websites. Linking to them
has nothing to do with "freedom of speech." Actively linking to them is
active promotion of what they advocate, or what they promote, it's giving
them free advertising. If you have such links, do not link to us or try to
join us. If you wish to join us, remove those links. Freedom of speech means
nothing without responsibility to the self. There is also Freedom of CHOICE.
==================================================
7.2) Does a person have to belong to any specific political party?
==================================================
No. People in many of the major and minor political parties often find that
they are in agreement only with some of their party's platform and have
their own ideas about other issues. SR presently has members from every
political party, major or minor, out there. Obviously, they agree with
these 10 points.
==================================================
8) Does SR regard people that feel this dark force and flame as better than
those who do not?
==================================================
No. Some people have good ears for music. Some people are tone deaf. It's a
matter of tone deaf people not trying to be musicians. It's not hard to tell
who is tone deaf and who is not and no one has to know a thing about music
to be able to hear it correctly and/or harmonize with melodies. They are
not, as whole human beings, lesser or inferior to those born with good ears
for pitch and harmony - but they aren't musical at all. Likewise, the tone
deaf can learn to become experts on the subject of music. They still will
never be able to "Know" music the way a person with good ears knows it
immediately on hearing it. The sensory experience is going to be different.
That is the only analogy we can give because it fits.
==================================================
9) What is the hammer and sickle in your sigil?
==================================================
The hammer is a symbol of labor and the sickle is a symbol of farming. These
joined together represent industry and agriculture united. The two symbols
appear in the Pentagon in the center of our Pentacle. That Pentagon is a
House; it is not inverted; it is the correct way and, in the Dark Doctrine,
represents YOU. But in a worldly sense, it would represent the world and the
world runs due to agriculture and industry. Our House is a house of farmers
and workers - all working and making society run. What is a big corporation
without the little workers? It's an empty building. What is a big
corporation that hires little workers outside the nation? It's a group of
people that have increased unemployment within the country. What do they
make to sell us? Who is going to buy things when no one can afford things?
The House must be put in order and have a strong Foundation, or it will
fall. Nations need a strong, self-sufficient agrarian and industrial base if
they are to survive as healthy nations.
==================================================
10) What do you use the pentacle for?
==================================================
The Five Points of the Pentacle, or rather the "Blazing Angles" that radiate
from the House represent things in the Dark Doctrine. Starting from the top
right point, going clockwise, and making this very simple: 1. Our Roots in
the sense of physical generations. 2. Justice implying natural
stratification. 3. The Anima or Vajra Root of our individual Being and our
animal nature. 4. Our Inner Well-being or Psyche. 5. Nature in us and around
us and in which we live. The X that is formed by the crossed lines where the
top point of the inner Pentagon (House) is, represents Heart, Feelings,
Eros. These are elaborated upon in great detail in Monographs we sell on the
Left Hand Path Traditions, especially in the Monograph, "Tantra, Vajrayana
and Pythagoreanism."
==================================================
11) You are not like other satanic organizations out there at all. Why not?
==================================================
Satanic Reds exists as an alternative to the "Satanism" that is so tied up
with Christianity or silly horror-show antics. It is, in fact, a Left Hand
Path organization as far as occult doctrines go. The doctrines are wholly
outside of the more familiar Judeo-Christian world view that people that get
into "Satanism" have. The concepts of becoming (xeper) and Inner Will
(thelema) are in these Doctrines, and always were from ancient times. The
wailing angst of people rebelling against their own Christian backgrounds is
wholly left out - it's not in SR, it doesn't exist, we do not cater to that
type of person.
==================================================
12) Are you a hierarchical organization with a hierarchy of titles such as
Priest(ess), Magus, etc?
==================================================
No, titles mean nothing in the SR. Every Comrade is given a title of
People's Commissar, including the founders of this organization. We are not
a hierarchical organization at all.
==================================================
13) Is there anything a person has to do if they join?
==================================================
Aside from writing nice articles, being creative, emailing each other, or
practicing your Craft in a group or solitary manner, which is what most
occultists do, there are some suggestions made to SRs. Members do not have
do these; they are suggestions.
As Social Realists, you can support the Bill of Rights, which is threatened
now. You can work to get a Bill of Rights in your country if you don't
already have one. If you don't know what the Bill of Rights is, look it up!
You should know what this is, whether you join this organization or not.
You can support the New Deal that was implemented by the great President F.
D. Roosevelt. The Great Roosevelt was elected by the People of the United
States for four terms. Those were the days when a dollar went somewhere.
Life was good back then. President FD Roosevelt saved the United States
during the Great Depression. His programs have been eroded by the military
industrial corporate powers and further given a bad name by social parasites
who were allowed to wallow in generational welfare, which put a burden on
the "middle class," gave social programs a bad name, and otherwise helped to
propel the reactionary forces of both the Christian Coalition types and the
political thought police to power. In other words, the ultra left eroded the
New Deal by abusing it, and now the ultra right wants to finish the job of
destroying it.
We suggest that you find large groups that are already established that
agree with any of the 10 points and join up with them, work with them. Don't
bring religion up; that's not a good idea and it's off the mark and tends to
cause friction. Work to attain Social Realism in a spirit of cooperation
with groups that are already huge in number, who have the clout and
experience.
You can get out there and make a difference no matter how "small" a
difference that may be. That is a Satanic Red! That is a Social Realist!
As members of a Left Hand Path organization called Satanic Reds, by whatever
label you choose to define yourself by, you can do pretty much what any
other of the many and varied Satanic or Wiccan and/or other organizations
out there are doing, if you choose to do this: there are risks with some of
the things they do. Teach people about it, set the record straight. Or
don't. Form a coven or grotto; Or don't do that at all, especially if you
live in an intolerant town or country; use the internet instead as a method.
In other words, do what you want with the Magick. Remember, a strong act of
True Will is Magick.
If you engage in Magick, try a working that might help gets these political
things done.
You have everything to gain by doing that, even if you agree with the 10 SR
statements and choose not to join the SR.
==================================================
14) FD Roosevelt, who is mentioned a lot in your socio-politics, was an
American President. Is SR for Americans only?
==================================================
No. We mention President FD Roosevelt and this means very little to foreign
members, some of whom already have a great system where hard working people
get a good wage and guaranteed health care. They have to realize that their
countries weren't always like that and that progressive thinkers and
planners can be replaced by corporate despots that don't give a damn about
working people or farmers. Feudalism can easily return. Well paid workers
can be replaced by low paid scabs from other places. Countries can be turned
into Global Plantations very easily. Transnational and Multinational
Corporations are going about doing that right now.
==================================================
15) Why don't you charge money for membership?
==================================================
Who would charge it and who would get paid? There are technical issues also:
are we religious or are we political? Marsh does charge money for the Dark
Tradition Monographs. If any member chooses to make a hard copy magazine, we
would expect that comrade to charge money because it costs money to do
something like that.
==================================================
16) Why have you made so much of this information public to people?
==================================================
Some people come to feel something about their own Flame or Logos, if they
feel anything at all. For those that feel it and perceive it as Ultimately
Bright, there are plenty of organizations for them to join, plenty of books
for them to read. For instance, it would be reasonable for a person raised
Christian to think, "Oh, that Light must be Christ." We have no information
that they would be interested in (or so we thought).
Then again, there are quite a few people that perceive their own Flame from
its origin - and that origin is like Abyssal Darkness to their perception.
This is no problem for people who are from cultures that know what that is.
But in the West, for instance, a Christian, Jew or Moslem or even a Wiccan
or Pagan might come to the conclusion that, "This must be Satan." What
happens next? They try to find out information about this Satan and run into
the very familiar monotheistic version of that - which doesn't fit what they
feel at all. They might get on the internet and do a search for "Satanism"
or "Satan" and, prior to SR's information being available, they'd run into
LaVeyan Satanism, which is public, or possibly run into the Temple of Set,
which does not make its information so public at all. They might run into
Atheistic organizations, but they don't feel like Atheists. They'd probably
find only organizations that are like those organizations and nothing else.
They may have joined some of these organizations and found a hierarchy in
them; they may have not been raised to any higher level of awareness when it
comes to inner-being at all, but dragged down instead. Now they can find us.
That was the intent. The information is there, whether one joins the SR or
not. It's there. Available.
However, in the time that this information has been available, we have found
that it is not only people into Satanism that have been helped by this
information at all.
What happens if the sincere Christian, who wishes to remain a Christian,
perceives the Logos as more Dark than Light? What is that Christian to do?
Feel bad about it? Before SR was around with information on this Darkness
and this Light, that is probably exactly what the Christian did - feel very
bad. The information we have is informative not only to people who wish to
get into "the Darkness," but it is informative to a great many people that
it never intended to be informative to - people who want to really know
about that Light. As one Christian said, "What said, 'Let there BE light'
must not have himself BEEN light!" This was a Christian, still a Christian,
that felt the acute presence of God while reading "The Darkness is One,"
when it spoke of the "Ray of Light flashing out" - i.e., the Logos - and
what that Ray of Light became.
That document, "Darkness is One," can be found at this url:
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/dark-one.html
==================================================
17) If members can make their own covens or grottos for magickal workings,
how does that work in connection to the SR organization itself?
==================================================
Some Comrades already did this and these are listed in "SR Linked Orgs" now.
These are organizations with their own members in them, some of whom are not
members of the SR. It's up to these organizations to keep track of their own
membership and run their own organizations, covens, or grottos. If you make
a coven or group, you are solely responsible for it. One would expect the
group to engage in whatever magickal tradition they agree on. Hopefully,
they'd also work toward the Social Realism in the ten political statements.
SR Linked Orgs can be seen here:
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/sr-orgs.html
==================================================
18) Can members make a magazine for the organization on their own?
==================================================
If you want to make a magazine and sell it, this is your own responsibility.
The Founders can and would notify all members that you are looking for
articles; but it's up to them to write them and hand them in. No one would
be told to do it. It's up to them. Basically and truly: Do As Thou Wilt!
There are standard monographs available for sale in the AD section at this
Url:
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/dd-ad.html
==================================================
19) What if some members don't get along with other members or have
disagreements? Can they get kicked out for that? Do the founders step in?
==================================================
If you don't get along with another comrade, do not come to the founders
with complaints. We aren't your bosses or your parents. You are expected to
be mature, responsible adults. Deal with it yourself: The only suggestion
is: "agree to disagree and avoid each other."
If you have some personal disagreement with a founder, the same applies.
Agree to disagree. Don't think that because a founder thinks "XYZ" that
"XYZ" applies to the organization itself when the subject of disagreement is
outside of the confines of the organization.
We are all People's Commissars! We are COMRADES! That means that we all
agree on the 10 political points and work to attain them within our own
countries, since all countries are very different. It does not mean that we
will all like or love each other or get along, it does not mean that we
agree about religious or non-religious doctrines and beliefs. There
obviously will be ten points of agreement, since the people involved joined
the SR in the first place.
In an organization where there are no bosses and everyone is his or her own
boss, expect a variety of strong opinions. Expect debates, too. Do not flame
each other if you join the egroup. Discuss, state your point. Opinions on
the 10 things required for membership in the SR org would be in agreement.
However, situations in various countries would not be the same and might
result in interpretations of the 10 points other than your own.
If you engage in chatting on the egroup, where anything and everything gets
talked about and people get to know each other, don't complain if you don't
like another's posts. If you don't like them, don't read them or just
killfile them. Do not run to a founder about it. Pestering a founder about
such trivia might result in a comrade being asked to deal with it on his/her
own or leave.
If a member comes into the SR org with the agenda of trying to get the SR
Comrades on a crusade against another organization, they will be driven out
of SR.
==================================================
20) Are you against other Satanic organizations or any other organizations?
==================================================
We are not against any of the various Satanic organizations out there; if
they are Deistic in the sense that they see Satan as a dark force in Nature,
or Theistic where they see Satan as an actual being such as Lucifer or Set
or Mephistopheles, or strictly atheist with Left Hand Path tradition more
akin to martial arts, as long as they leave us be, do not harass or libel us
and don't advocate SRA-type nonsense or prove to be nothing but inversionist
anti-Christians. We are, however, against any satanic or other organization
out there that is against us or that engages in harassment or slander of us.
Our feelings on all Alternate Religion organizational squabbles are clearly
explained in the article Mastering Satanism. We know they have to stop and
we won't be part of it unless pushed into a corner where we have to make a
statement. Some of them have pushed! Notably, it was not Christians, Moslems
or Jews that did the pushing. "Mastering Satanism" can be found at this url:
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/mast-sat.html
==================================================
21) Where can I read more about Left Hand Path Traditions on the web?
==================================================
You can read about these traditions in the articles on these pages:
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/art-dt.html
Left Hand Path from a more Wiccan perspective: Michelet Satanism and
Witchcraft:
http://home.wi.rr.com/lylythdotorg/
Some of the organizations listed on this page
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/sr-orgs.html
In addition, there is some material on the Left Hand Path on these pages
along with other very good information:
http://www.geocities.com/go_darkness/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/666.html
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/rituals.html
22) Where can I read more about Social Realism on the web?
You can read about Social Realism on this page:
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/art-sp.html
==================================================
23) Are there hard copy documents that elaborate on this further?
==================================================
Yes, we sell Dark Tradition Monographs as listed on these pages:
http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/dd-ad.html
http://www.geocities.com/go_darkness/god-ad-ddocs.html
http://www.apodion.com/vad/article.php?id=3D22&aid=3D212
http://www.satanshop.com/index.php?cat=3DMedia&aisle=3D193
--
Satanic Reds - Dark Tradition, Sat & Tan
Frames: http://satanicreds.says.it
Bookmark http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds
Michelet Satanism and Witchcraft http://home.wi.rr.com/lylythdotorg/
Dark Doctrines www.apodion.com/vad/
Guardians of Darkness http://geocities.com/go_darkness/index.html
Cthulhu Mythos:
http://.innsmouth.rules.it
http://lovecraft.shows.it
"Life is a wonder to be lived; not a problem to be solved."
-- TJ
======================================================================
reformatted slightly by boboroshi. :>
EOF
Robert Leuthold
"tyaginator" <satanservice.org@boboroshi> wrote in message
news:avUde.353$T3....@typhoon.sonic.net...
Kori Houghton
Robert Leuthold wrote:
> doesn't tthis boil down to communism or police state politics?
>From what I've read here and on the SR sites, it seems that an
applicant has to sign off on a list of political principles. I
wouldn't call their principles communism -- the Soviet bloc certainly
had a thriving ultra-capitalist black market. Nor would I call it
'police state politics' because the org leaders don't care how you live
your life, only that you that you give keyboard lipservice to the
principles in communications with them.
IMO, a faq for a group which has splinter orgs/sites run by
representatives of religious orgs hostile to all types of satanism --
like an RC priest, for example -- should not be published in this NG.
But Bobo is a strange duck.
So also IMO, anyone who truly resonates with the independent
individualism of satanism should be able to see what the SRs and their
faq here are all about with no problem. If someone cannot 'get it',
they're too damn stupid to worry about. Let Llama Mama and her gang of
k00ks have them! Burp!
Kori
> "tyaginator" <satanservice.org@boboroshi> wrote in message
> news:avUde.353$T3....@typhoon.sonic.net...
> > Archive-name: religions/satanism/faqsr
> > Version: 2.0
> > Revised: 01-28-05
> > Posting-Frequency: monthly or when desired
> >
> >
======================================================================
> >
> > The Satanic Reds - Social Realists alt.satanism FAQ v 1.0
> >
> >
> > by Founders of SR Org.
SNIP----------the kee-rap
cre8...@yahoo.com.au
no idea what is meant by the statement, "we are social realists" made
on the SR site. Also, anyone who has any economic sense could not
possibly agree to some of the 10 commandments, er I mean statements.
SOD of the CoE
Robert Leuthold:
# > doesn't tthis boil down to communism or police state politics?
no idea. it doesn't seem to me obviously Satanic.
"Kori Houghton" <koriho...@hotmail.com>:
# From what I've read here and on the SR sites, it seems that an
# applicant has to sign off on a list of political principles. I
# wouldn't call their principles communism -- the Soviet bloc certainly
# had a thriving ultra-capitalist black market. Nor would I call it
# 'police state politics' because the org leaders don't care how you live
# your life, only that you that you give keyboard lipservice to the
# principles in communications with them.
wonderfully said.
# IMO, a faq for a group which has splinter orgs/sites run by
# representatives of religious orgs hostile to all types of satanism --
# like an RC priest, for example -- should not be published in this NG.
hey, if it's a fundie Xtrian alt.satanism FAQ and it seems sincere,
then I'll post it. hell, I may MAKE one (maybe a Buddhist one too).
# But Bobo is a strange duck.
quack quack
# So also IMO, anyone who truly resonates with the independent
# individualism of satanism should be able to see what the SRs and their
# faq here are all about with no problem. If someone cannot 'get it',
# they're too damn stupid to worry about. Let Llama Mama and her gang of
# k00ks have them! Burp!
LOL!
blessed beast!
boboroshi at-sign satanservice.org: Satanic Outreach Director
Church of Euthanasia: http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/
TOKUS WEBLINKS: http://dmoz.org/Bookmarks/B/boboroshi/
Ninth Scholar's Library (Satanism Archive): http://www.satanservice.org/
Robert Leuthold
elimination of welfare? why? I need it due to my disability. again,maybe I
misread,but according tothat page "one must work to be worth something"
also on the humor page on the rib against Boyd Rice,Jim Goad was the one who
wrote the song they parodied
"SOD of the CoE" <satanservice.org@boboroshi> wrote in message
news:UTaee.518$T3....@typhoon.sonic.net...
Kori Houghton
If you check out the threads on the "Reformed Church of Satan", one has
a reading list which includes a book on "Social Realism" by Yaj Nomolos
(Jay Solomon spelled sorta backwards). Is there any connection between
Yaj and TJ? Hmmmmmm.....
> I have
> no idea what is meant by the statement, "we are social realists" made
> on the SR site.
Check the alt.s archives for the phrase "social realists". You'll
discover that TJ started using that phrase to distance the Satanic Reds
from both Satanism and Communism when she morphed into a Christian
apologist.
> Also, anyone who has any economic sense could not
> possibly agree to some of the 10 commandments, er I mean statements.
10 whatevers that members don't have to live by or even accept in the
abstract, but only give lipservice to in communications with the org.
Why would anyone take the 10 whatevers seriously, when the org founders
don't? Why would anyone join this org when the first criterion for
membership is repeating empty platitudes as a form of institutionalized
arse-licking? Economics has nothing to do with it.
Luv,
Kori
Kori Houghton
SOD of the CoE wrote:
> followup (caught in my sieve on account of 'Question' reference):
>
> Robert Leuthold:
> # > doesn't tthis boil down to communism or police state politics?
>
> no idea. it doesn't seem to me obviously Satanic.
>
> "Kori Houghton" <koriho...@hotmail.com>:
> # From what I've read here and on the SR sites, it seems that an
> # applicant has to sign off on a list of political principles. I
> # wouldn't call their principles communism -- the Soviet bloc
certainly
> # had a thriving ultra-capitalist black market. Nor would I call it
> # 'police state politics' because the org leaders don't care how you
live
> # your life, only that you that you give keyboard lipservice to the
> # principles in communications with them.
>
> wonderfully said.
You were supposed to have me plonked, Bobo. A deceiver like you must
be in league with the Devil.
> # IMO, a faq for a group which has splinter orgs/sites run by
> # representatives of religious orgs hostile to all types of satanism
--
> # like an RC priest, for example -- should not be published in this
NG.
>
> hey, if it's a fundie Xtrian alt.satanism FAQ and it seems sincere,
> then I'll post it. hell, I may MAKE one (maybe a Buddhist one too).
Knock yourself out. There are too many FAQs already. At least TJ's is
more entertaining than most, so I think it will be read occasionally.
Most of the rest are pretty much ancient history. Sheesh, the TOS one
still has Don Webb listed as HP....that's like 3 HPs out of date, Bobo.
>
> # But Bobo is a strange duck.
>
> quack quack
But do you walk like a duck?
> # So also IMO, anyone who truly resonates with the independent
> # individualism of satanism should be able to see what the SRs and
their
> # faq here are all about with no problem. If someone cannot 'get
it',
> # they're too damn stupid to worry about. Let Llama Mama and her
gang of
> # k00ks have them! Burp!
>
> LOL!
Bet you thought I was gonna say her org had no right to exist. I see a
need out here for virtual no-pest strips, human size. She provides
this product.
Kori
Tani Jantsang ©
You can't control yourself. You even make anon libel and other posts just
to "see me" where I'm not - and then bitch and moan again and again.
I could care less what you, Bobo or anyone else thinks of the SR. We HAVE
the best people in our org - and the talent - AND those with Gnosis. That's
a fact. Blather all you want. Idgaf.
"Kori Houghton" <koriho...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1115285505....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> cre83...@yahoo.com.au wrote:
>> I always thought that Social Realism was an ugly art movement.
>
snip.
Tani Jantsang ©
said to Bobo more than one time. The flame gets enhanced from OUR stuff.
That is ALL that matters. I do not matter. The flame gets enhanced - THAT
matters.
"Kori Houghton" <koriho...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1115175035....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Robert Leuthold wrote:
He's not capable of writing anything except top posted nyaa nyaa nyaa stupid
kiddie shit.
Robert Leuthold
you have the answer
it's really hard for anyone to take you seriously when you're sitting on a
chair made of legos
"Tani Jantsang ©" <tjs...@SPAMpost.com> wrote in message
news:muDee.4720$7F4....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Kori Houghton
Tani Jantsang © wrote:
> Ahem, that's why Kori resonates with TANI's doctrines - which is what
she
> said to Bobo more than one time.
Kori never said anything about resonating with "TANI's doctrines". I
consider the DDocs to be New Age kee-rap. Kori did comment to Bobo in
various posts that she, like Tani, finds little use for empty
ceremonial/ritual. Kori also considers magic to be an innate ability
that a person either has or does not have -- a similar view to Tani's.
> The flame gets enhanced from OUR stuff.
> That is ALL that matters. I do not matter. The flame gets enhanced
- THAT
> matters.
Yeah sure. And this NG offers many, many examples of the foul-mouthed
occultnik strumpet (TM Joe S.) enhancing the flame (wars LOL). You are
right about one thing, though. You do not matter. I do not matter to
you, so please refrain from misrepresenting my views.
Ta muchly,
Kori