Well, that's a bummer.
Ugen
but who said life is easy.
So my brave little First 235 under my sloppy command hit a submerged stone
while leaving Greenwich, CT harbor. Lesson number one to myself - having
2 and 1/2 ' draft is not a guarantee against hitting things. It wasnt a very
strong hit, more like scraping, so i fugured - a scratch on a keel - who cares.
Wrong again! Apparently beneteau in a quest for cost effectivness glues
the wings onto the keel with something closely resembling 3M 5200.
So here we go - the boat just came out of the water and the wings are not to be
found there. Lesson number 3 - buying imported (French) boats isn't much
different from buying imported cars. The wings (fiberglass part, about 1' wide,
2' long) may cost me (as per Benetau USA parts guy) about $1000. And he has
to contact France to find out.
So in short - learning process sux:) And btw if anyone has any idea where i can
get those blasted wings (used or something?) - feel free to reply...
Well, that was a worthy end to a sailing season.
--Ugen
paul1martin
sectionns you're going to have to have a yard fiberglas them on. Maybe
another $500? Bad bump(in the night) eh?
It may be worth your while to check around and find out if those things
have a habit of falling off those boats....it's possible there is an
inherant manufacturers defect about their attachment. Could it have
fallen off before you hit the rocks?
--
pm..."Try not to become a man of success.
Rather become a man of value."
Albert Einstein
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Katysails
Almost as good as lightning.
katysails
S/V Chanteuse
Kirie Elite Mark ll
"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein
Ugen
Well, yes, i have insurance and i just reported this. I cross my fingers
and hope they will fit the bill or at least most of it.
I was in fact kind of hoping that someone here may have experience with
that, i also posted a question to Beneteau owners site but it is not a very
high-traffic place so i wouldn't hold my breath for answers.
Of course no matter how it happens a *good* boat shouldn't loose part of
its keel because of such a light grounding....thats a little upsetting, i was
(and more or less still am) a big fan of Beneteau.
Jim - SBSC
of boat recalls and defects such as this MAY be.
http://www.boatus.com/recall/
and/or
http://www.uscgboating.org/mf/mf_srchRecall.ASP
will get you there.
good luck,
Jim
From the Chesapeake Bay, the best sailing area in the world!
Everyone is welcome at the Southern Bay Sailing Club, website:
http://hometown.aol.com/winchkid/myhomepage/sports.html
To reply, remove "NOSPAM" from my e-mail address.
Zane
(snip)
>So my brave little First 235 under my sloppy command hit a submerged stone
>while leaving Greenwich, CT harbor. Lesson number one to myself - having
>2 and 1/2 ' draft is not a guarantee against hitting things.
(snip)
Is the water shallow enough to just pay a diver to find them? (Assuming
you can find the offending rock again.)
Zane
John Cairns
Ugen wrote:
>
> Ok, i suppose this is one of the least preferable ways to introduce oneself,
> but who said life is easy.
>
> So my brave little First 235 under my sloppy command hit a submerged stone
> while leaving Greenwich, CT harbor. Lesson number one to myself - having
> 2 and 1/2 ' draft is not a guarantee against hitting things. It wasnt a very
> strong hit, more like scraping, so i fugured - a scratch on a keel - who cares.
> Wrong again! Apparently beneteau in a quest for cost effectivness glues
> the wings onto the keel with something closely resembling 3M 5200.
> So here we go - the boat just came out of the water and the wings are not to be
> found there. Lesson number 3 - buying imported (French) boats isn't much
> different from buying imported cars. The wings (fiberglass part, about 1' wide,
> 2' long) may cost me (as per Benetau USA parts guy) about $1000. And he has
> to contact France to find out.
>
> So in short - learning process sux:) And btw if anyone has any idea where i can
> get those blasted wings (used or something?) - feel free to reply...
>
> Well, that was a worthy end to a sailing season.
> --Ugen
Don't feel bad. Last time out LAST fall, the luff of our RF
genoa ripped from the head(almost) to the tack(almost). It is a
sacrificial UV cover, but it still had to be replaced. Had a color
coordinated cover put on, with a foam luff. Cost-$500, not covered by
insurance. At least you should be covered by insurance. I'd hassle the
factory also, they're made in the US now, maybe you can get something
out of them for your trouble. John Cairns
paul1martin
John Cairns <ra...@home.com> wrote:
>
> Don't feel bad. Last time out LAST fall, the
luff of our RF
> genoa ripped from the head(almost) to the tack(almost). It is a
> sacrificial UV cover, but it still had to be replaced. Had a color
> coordinated cover put on, with a foam luff.
>
john...I don't understand how your genoa ripping from head to tack had
anything to do with the uv cover which runs along the leach and foot.
Do I smell a con job with the little lady of the boat on getting a new
color coordinated cover in exchange for the foam luff addition?
trash
wonder. Any jump you walk away from is a good one, the boat can be fixed,
and there's always next season. Keep smilin'
"John Cairns" <ra...@home.com> wrote in message
news:39D2B586...@home.com...
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
John Cairns
paul1martin wrote:
>
> In article <39D2B586...@home.com>,
>
>
> >
> john...I don't understand how your genoa ripping from head to tack had
> anything to do with the uv cover which runs along the leach and foot.
> Do I smell a con job with the little lady of the boat on getting a new
> color coordinated cover in exchange for the foam luff addition?
>
> --
> pm..."Try not to become a man of success.
> Rather become a man of value."
> Albert Einstein
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
I stand corrected. It did tear, from almost the head to almost the
clew. I was extremely upset at the time, as I thought it was entirely my
fault, we got the sheets wrapped around the sail as we were unfurling
and it flogged the sail for about 5 minutes or so before I could get
them unwrapped. One of my dock neighbors explained to me that it was the
cover, and I could expect it to fall apart after about seven seasons of
exposure, which made me feel better. I don't think the color coordinated
cover cost much more-it was actually my idea-and the foam luff was to
replace this useless piece of garbage called an "aeroluff" that was
installed on the sail originally. It was supposed to work like a foam
luff, but when you rolled the sail up you would always get this hideous
looking lumpy mess, which I couldn't stomach. The foam luff works
nicely, and when I roll the sail back up it looks neat and shipshape.
"Nuff said. John Cairns
Brian Grant
Sounds like it was just the UV cover that came loose. That is a common
occurence since the threads holding it to the leach are still exposed.
They are a good idea on roller furlers to protect the sails. You can
also get a loose cover that is raised on a second halyard if you are not
interested in the sewn on cover.
Jeffrey Nelson
right next to that rock that's 2 feet down where you probably left them...
:-)
Best of luck findin' new ones....Let us know how it all turns out.
abstrait
> So my brave little First 235 under my sloppy command hit a submerged
stone
> while leaving Greenwich, CT harbor. It wasnt a very
> strong hit, more like scraping, so i fugured - a scratch on a keel -
who cares.
> Wrong again! Apparently beneteau in a quest for cost effectivness
glues
> the wings onto the keel with something closely resembling 3M 5200.
> So here we go - the boat just came out of the water and the wings are
not to be
> found there. Lesson number 3 - buying imported (French) boats isn't
much
> different from buying imported cars. The wings (fiberglass part,
about 1' wide,
> 2' long) may cost me (as per Benetau USA parts guy) about $1000.
First of all, the wing on the Beneteau First 235 is NOT fiberglass. In
fact, it is made of IRON just like the keel, and covered with
epoxy/resin to seal it. Secondly, the wing on the Beneteau F235 is NOT
glued on with just 5200. The wing is attached with THREE large bolts
and sealed. Some of the run of wing keels might be made differently;
there is still debate here. On the earlier models of the US run
started in 86/87, you can see the seam of the wing keel where the wing
is added. Some of these leave the bolt heads exposed, recessed in
bottom. Others have these anomolies completely covered with a seamless
joint between wing and fin, the bolt heads invisible.
Apparently, you hit the wing with enough force to shear the bolts off,
something I have never seen or heard of before or since.
IF anyone is interested, a view of the Beneteau F235 wing keel is seen
below, this before and after a restoration.
http://www.beneteau235.com/keel_pdf/wing_keel_montage.jpg
Here you see the separate wing, top and bottom, along with the bolts
that are used to attach it. You notice the wing on and off the fin,
and get an excellent shot of the wing keel faired and finished with
barrier coat.
The original keels are not available any more. However, more than a
few owners have converted to the new Mars/Leif Beiley lead keel so one
could find extras this way. Mars makes the Leif Beiley lead keel
option right now, details to be found at http://beneteau235.com/
As an aside, it is far more likely your F235 was made in the Beneteau
plant in South Carolina, and NOT imported from France. 451 F235 were
made there.
This post is left for information purposes, since the original poster
has long since lived this malady down...
kh
Beneteau F235 ~ abstrait
'89 WK | Hull #327
http://beneteau235.com
katysails
getting parts from France is much cheaper, faster, and more efficient than
trying to get them in the US. We deal directly with the Kirie people in La
Rochelle whenever we have a problem and have had nothing but satisfactory
service. The cost of the part we order is generally half that of what it
costs here and the shipping is not expensive. I suppose ifyou had to order
something as weighty as a lead keel bulb that might change...
"abstrait" <abst...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1105786073.9...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Capt. Neal®
I have boycotted all things Frog and I invite everybody to follow my
lead. Let's hit those corrupt commie jerks where it hurts - right in
their pocketbook.
CN
"katysails" <katy...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:%raGd.10146$S11....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Maxprop
"abstrait" <abst...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> First of all, the wing on the Beneteau First 235 is NOT fiberglass.
No commercially-produced boats have strictly FRP wings. They all have some
weight in them, whether iron, lead, or whatever.
> In
> fact, it is made of IRON just like the keel, and covered with
> epoxy/resin to seal it.
While iron is less desirable than lead for obvious reasons, it is
increasingly more common in production yachts as keel ballast. Lead is more
costly and less available, and there are some environmental issues with
lead/antimony keel materials as well. While most manufacturers would prefer
lead ballast, many are going to iron. Even high-end builders, such as
Moody, are using iron. No big deal, IMO, if properly encapsulated and
maintained.
Max
Maxprop
"Capt. Neal®" <Capt...@Cox.net> wrote in message
> Only an unpatriotic, commie idiot would buy anything from France.
>
> I have boycotted all things Frog and I invite everybody to follow my
> lead. Let's hit those corrupt commie jerks where it hurts - right in
> their pocketbook.
Right on, Cappy. Boycott those bastards.
Say, let's have a drink on that. I've got a nice Chateau Lynch Bages '86
just waiting to be opened and . . . .
Max
Capt. Neal®
Coronado Yachts was using iron over 30 years ago.
My Coronado 27 has a cast iron keel. Today's leading
edge technology yesterday - how about that?
CN
"Maxprop" <max...@propshaft.end> wrote in message news:P%eGd.189$Rs....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
JG
--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com
"Maxprop" <max...@propshaft.end> wrote in message
news:n2fGd.7403$C52...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
JG
the bay.
--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com
"Maxprop" <max...@propshaft.end> wrote in message
news:P%eGd.189$Rs....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
katysails
You obviously need a course in world government to set you straight...
"Capt. Neal®" <Capt...@Cox.net> wrote in message
news:34svpfF...@individual.net...
katysails
don't have to worry about sanitation costs after a surprise visit...
"Maxprop" <max...@propshaft.end> wrote in message
news:n2fGd.7403$C52...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Horvath
wrote this crap:
>Only an unpatriotic, commie idiot would buy anything from France.
>
>I have boycotted all things Frog and I invite everybody to follow my
>lead. Let's hit those corrupt commie jerks where it hurts - right in
>their pocketbook.
That's right! I've switched to drinking the finest upstate New York
shampane, and the best Northern Michigan cherry wines I can get.
Hor...@Horvath.net
Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!
Horvath
this crap:
>My Cal 20 has a cast iron keel... 950 lbs of it. It makes it quite stable on
>the bay.
That's also because the mast is only eight feet tall.
Horvath
wrote this crap:
>
>Right on, Cappy. Boycott those bastards.
>
>Say, let's have a drink on that. I've got a nice Chateau Lynch Bages '86
>just waiting to be opened and . . . .
"Shatooh Lynchburg" is usually what we call Jack Daniels.
JG
--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com
"Horvath" <Te...@Fartingmor.com> wrote in message
news:ppfju0hd3cbn9qf3f...@4ax.com...
Maxprop
"JG" <jg...@sailnow.invalid> wrote in message
> In that case, please be sure not to visit the Statue of Liberty.
Haven't you heard? They want it back.
Max
Maxprop
"katysails" <katy...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> France is not a Communist country....
> You obviously need a course in world government to set you straight...
He should have joined me in that nicely-aged claret I just drank. Then he
wouldn't have cared what France is or isn't.
Max
JG
less free?
--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com
"Maxprop" <max...@propshaft.end> wrote in message
news:PanGd.449$Rs....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
katysails
"Horvath" <Te...@Fartingmor.com> wrote in message
news:t7eju09bo4u6bvlgf...@4ax.com...
Horvath
this crap:
>This from the "expert" who owns a crapola hunter.
There's nothing "crapola" about my boat, dumbass.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/84855671/84590516gdrVXX
And I'm the club champion, again. Something you can only dream about,
dumbass.
Horvath
this crap:
>>
>>"Shatooh Lynchburg" is usually what we call Jack Daniels.
>>
>
>I own property right next to the Jack Daniels distillery and I've NEVER heard it
>called that. You must be a piker.
Wouldn't suprise me if you were a charter member of the founding of
JD.
Horvath
wrote this crap:
>
>"JG" <jg...@sailnow.invalid> wrote in message
>
>> In that case, please be sure not to visit the Statue of Liberty.
>
>Haven't you heard? They want it back.
They better be paying for the shipping.
abstrait
malcontents I have ever read online, and that's in a list of many.
Sadly, and almost as par for the course, you consider yourself
knowledgeable and witty, yet your comments are so unabashidly blind,
almost to the level of comedic, that it's embarrassing. If this was a
parody of ignorance via a cartoon network coloring book, it would
perhaps warrant a few guffaws. Never before have I prayed for
sarcasm....
I didnt know people were still saying the word "commie" in 2005. Your
understanding of things International is sitting square in the middle
of solipsism, not to mention the paramount of a twisted ethnocentric
vision that seems common and given strength since 9/11, and all for the
wrong reasons.
Lastly, you are really nothing but a troll, and a glorified one at
that. Your bombast is sprinkled far and wide in here and almost
outnumbers your contributions of merit, although some do exist.
Happening on here this morning and reading your complete tripe is like
witnessing a car wreck in slow motion, over and over, with no end in
sight. If you are the best the Alt.saiing.asa has to offer, then it's
not a good sign. Alas, as stated, you are the consumate troll, so you
eat this stuff up. I can only wonder how many sailors with sense you
have driven away.
I am now sorry I entered this thread as it was reduced to total schlock
within 24 hours.
kh
Maxprop
"JG" <jg...@sailnow.invalid> wrote in message
> Perhaps because they gave it to a free society, which is quickly becoming
> less free?
Nah. They're just running out of iron for keels (Beneteau, Jeanneau) and
copper for plumbing pipes.
Max
Maxprop
"katysails" <katy...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> There is no such thing as a "best" Michigan wine...they're pretty
> swilly...
Amen to that! A wine salesman once told me that "good Michigan wine" is an
oxymoron. I concur.
Max
Maxprop
"Horvath" <Te...@Fartingmor.com> wrote in message
> On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 01:51:57 GMT, BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com wrote
> this crap:
>
>>>
>>>"Shatooh Lynchburg" is usually what we call Jack Daniels.
>>>
>>
>>I own property right next to the Jack Daniels distillery and I've NEVER
>>heard it
>>called that. You must be a piker.
>
>
> Wouldn't suprise me if you were a charter member of the founding of
> JD.
He probably "owns" one of the one foot square plots of land that JD gave
away as a promotion.
Max
Maxprop
"Horvath" <Te...@Fartingmor.com> wrote in message
> On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 05:44:15 GMT, "Maxprop" <max...@propshaft.end>
> wrote this crap:
>
>>
>>"JG" <jg...@sailnow.invalid> wrote in message
>>
>>> In that case, please be sure not to visit the Statue of Liberty.
>>
>>Haven't you heard? They want it back.
>
>
> They better be paying for the shipping.
Something tells me that if they really plan to take it back, they're going
to have to come and get it. Might meet a bit of armed resistance, I
suspect.
Max
Joe
Throw that zinc chromate away and get some endsrust, redlead, epoxy,
bottom paint. I can go 3- 4 years min. on a bottom job without seeing
any rust.
Joe
JG
how you feel.
--
"j" ganz @@
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"Maxprop" <max...@propshaft.end> wrote in message
news:N1wGd.8095$C52....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
JG
cents.
--
"j" ganz @@
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"abstrait" <abst...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1105889663....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
JG
--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com
"Horvath" <Te...@Fartingmor.com> wrote in message
news:qutku0tjr7ors2ji2...@4ax.com...
JG
--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com
"Joe" <steelr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1105898294.0...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
katysails
malcontent, and always been a racist and a bigot...these are not new
facts....in fact, he's much softer in his views than he was, say 5 years
ago....one can only think that age is wearing him down...
"abstrait" <abst...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1105889663....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Joe
JG wrote:
> I agree. I just use a good bottom paint. I haven' t had any rust.
>
You must be rust free, and before you put on your bottom
paint/antifoulant, you need to have a barrier coat. I prefer an epoxy.
Only thing better is a process called Met-coating were hot molten zinc
is sprayed on. Many of the offshore platforms and barges are protected
this way.
Antifoulant absorbs moisture and should never be use alone on
steel/iron.
Joe
Capt. Neal®
CN
"Horvath" <Te...@Fartingmor.com> wrote
> http://community.webshots.com/photo/84855671/84590516gdrVXX
JG
--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com
"Joe" <steelr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1105919271....@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Capt. Neal®
Capt. Neal is not a troll. Capt. Neal is a brilliant observer of life
and an exceptional practitioner of sailing. As on the water, in this
group of losers, the good Capt. Neal has no equal.
If it seems to you that the good Capt. Neal is a bigot and a racist
it is only because, compared to any race and any other individual,
Capt. Neal is so far superior in every way that his very presence
lends credence to the fact that no one can compare to his excellency.
As for age wearing me down, that's not the case. For your
information, Capt. Neal is trying to turn over a new leaf and
is reading the Bible and taking some Bible study Internet lessons
from the Charles Stanley Institute for Christian Living.
http://www.charlesstanleyinstitute.com/portal/home.html
I shall pray for you that you become a little more tolerant of others.
CN
"katysails" <katy...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:%UCGd.14869$S11....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Capt. Neal®
"abstrait" <abst...@yahoo.com> scribbled
> Capt, Neal, you are perhaps one of the most blatantly ignorant
> malcontents I have ever read online, and that's in a list of many.
And you are but just another on-line rube with whom I am plagued.
> Sadly, and almost as par for the course, you consider yourself
> knowledgeable and witty, yet your comments are so unabashidly blind,
> almost to the level of comedic, that it's embarrassing. If this was a
> parody of ignorance via a cartoon network coloring book, it would
> perhaps warrant a few guffaws. Never before have I prayed for
> sarcasm....
Sounds like some kind of auto-generated post to me. Is Pakin back
with his software?
> I didnt know people were still saying the word "commie" in 2005. Your
> understanding of things International is sitting square in the middle
> of solipsism, not to mention the paramount of a twisted ethnocentric
> vision that seems common and given strength since 9/11, and all for the
> wrong reasons.
Yes, Scott is back . . .
<snip>
CN
katysails
"Capt. Neal®" <Capt...@Cox.net> wrote in message
news:350n0mF...@individual.net...
Maxprop
"JG" <jg...@sailnow.invalid> wrote in message
> Why's that? I thought you hate the French. Let them take it back if that's
> how you feel.
The Frogs make tempting targets for ridicule, but I don't hate them.
Max
Maxprop
"Dave" <Da...@nothere.com> wrote in message
> I'm not at all sure that glassing the iron in as some boats do is the
> answer, since if you do get salt water penetrating to the keel the iron
> rusts and expands, creating its own problems.
There are pros and cons for encapsulation, but suffice it to say that any
keel can develop problems if improperly maintained or grounded roughly.
We once considered buying a Hallberg Rassey Rasmus 35, but passed when we
noted a breach in the keel-encapsulating fiberglass which was constantly
seeping rusty water. I doubt if there's any fix for that sort of problem,
short of removing all the glass and re-encapsulating the keel, which would
cost more than the boat was worth.
Max
Maxprop
"Joe" <steelr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> Only thing better is a process called Met-coating were hot molten zinc
> is sprayed on.
That would be almost the same as galvanizing the keel.
Max
Joe
Dave wrote:
> On 16 Jan 2005 09:58:14 -0800, "Joe" <steelr...@yahoo.com> said:
>
> >Throw that zinc chromate away and get some endsrust, redlead, epoxy,
> >bottom paint. I can go 3- 4 years min. on a bottom job without
seeing
> >any rust.
>
use zinc
> chromate followed by bottom paint because that's what my surveyor
> recommended, but would certainly love to find a more effective
treatment.
Whats important is having a surface clean of rust, the best is to
sandblast. Second wirewheels and lots of elbow grease. But even after
doing both you will have some microscopic rust. Coat the steel with
endsrust, that what the local shops re-selling in call it here is a
link: http://www.interstateproducts.com/rustkiller.htm
Its a great product, waterbased and it will nuteralize any rust, turns
it black, the stuff is like a polyurthane but no bad fumes and is 100
times better than Naveljelly or ospho. A good thick coat of redlead
next is ideal if you can find it, I have a navy buddy get mine.
Next get a quality 2 part epoxy to provide a waterproof barrier, Then
your antifoulant. Zinc chromate will react with many antifoulants
surely it goes to shit in no time with copper based antifoulants. Makes
the hull hot electrolysis wise.
On steel I prefer to use a insecticide type antifoulant with no metals
at all.
Do all this when the humidity is below 20% and give each coat a day to
dry. I usually put 3 coats of epoxy, Rustolum make a garage paint floor
epoxy that is as good as any, and cheaper.
Good Luck
Joe
abstrait
> Sounds like some kind of auto-generated post to me.
> Is Pakin back with his software?
> Yes, Scott is back . . .
Pakin? How can one be so wrong and proud of it, with seemingly no
aftershocks within the skull? Even if sarcasm can be claimed here, it
is so weak and off topic, it merely flaps about, grasping for
relevance. Auto Generated? Is this your excuse for not having to come
up with something meaningful nor correct?
Anyone that registers his own name within the usenet/groups illustrates
an almost staggering sense of self worth, and though they would
probably claim some form of "elbow in the side" as an excuse, this is
merely to hide the truth: this is where the pond begins and ends, and
it's a fine, easily managable body of water, with fenders all about and
plenty of depth, almost like a barrel of water with no current to
impede, so as to enable more twirling about. And in this small pond,
which is safe and sound, you ride high on Captain's laurels,
self-proclaimed of course, but no less important in the local scheme of
things, all as far as you know.
Dont get me wrong, Capt. Coronado; I love witty banter and off topic
amusement. But when it's just plain ignorant and small-minded, and
seemingly proud of it, then it's merely mediocre or less. And your
Neander-Neocon posts are high marks on the low road totem poll.
Then again, after perusing the posts here, amidst the good advice and
comments, it still appears to be a holding tank for many like-minded
"NeoCon-O-salts" where high-fives abound at the low water mark.
kh
Martin Baxter
> Capt. NealŽ wrote:
>
>
>>Sounds like some kind of auto-generated post to me.
>>Is Pakin back with his software?
>
>
>>Yes, Scott is back . . .
>
>
>
> Pakin? How can one be so wrong and proud of it,
Get used to it, with the Cappy it's a paradigm.
Cheers
Marty