How does a diesel work?
The_navigator©
fuel consumption in a petrol engine, Jackass has clearly displayed
complete ignorance of the principles of diesel operation. In the diesel
it is the fuel injection which is varied to produce whatever RPM are
required. Thus if the required torque at that RPM is low less fuel is
used. The relevant words for Jackass to look are governor, injection
pump. Yes, reducing throttle settings reduces fuel consumption but
diesels produce more power per gallon and are more reliable than petrol
engines in a marine environment.
Disclaimer: I know only a little about engines.
Cheers MC.
Rick
That is the only statement in that post that made any sense at all.
Just what exactly were you attempting to say?
Rick
Bobsprit
That is the only statement in that post that made any sense at all.>>>
Hahahahahahahaha!!!!
Capt RB
The_navigator©
Jackass would seem to imply that only the petrol engine reduces
consumption at lower RPM. Since reducing prop RPM reduces torque the
diesel consumption goes down as well. Sorry for using all those long
words in my earlier post but I was trying to convey a layman's view of
diesel operation.
Cheers MC
Rick trolled:
Donal
"Rick" <tu...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3C66791D...@earthlink.net...
> >"I know only a little about engines."
>
> That is the only statement in that post that made any sense at all.
Didn't this make any sense to you?
" Jackass has clearly displayed
complete ignorance of the principles of diesel operation. "
It certainly made sense to me!
Regards
Donal
--
Rick
Leaving out a bunch of figures which may or may not be accurate, all Jax
wrote was:
>"... if the gas engine owner pulls back on the throttle ...
>the gas engine gets the very same range per tank of fuel."
As a diesel equipped vessel would given the same tank size, boat,
conditions, etc. ... could be, maybe will, not an unreasonable premise.
He never said a word about reducing rpm on the diesel equipped vessel
other than saying that many diesel owners believe they will somehow
damage their engines by operating at less than full load. All that
implies is that the rpm of the diesel was not reduced in his comparison,
if it were there would be no point to be made and he probably would not
have written the post ... ask him.
>"... seem to imply that only the petrol engine reduces consumption at lower RPM."
You may have inferred that, it was neither stated or implied in his
post. It should be obvious to the least technically inclined that as
less weight of fuel is consumed by the petrol engine less work is
produced. While the same range may available, the time required to
achieve that range will be greater. Doesn't take any big words to convey
that.
Jax did miss the point that depending on the size of those tanks his
premise may not hold as diesel contains about 18,000 BTU more per US
gallon than petrol so the total energy available in an equal volume of
the diesel is greater to begin with. When combined with the higher
efficiency of a diesel engine the amount of power reduction required to
achieve equal range with a petrol engine may be so great as to negate
any advantage in doing so, or in the real world preclude the conduct of
the voyage altogether.
Or he may have ignored that because it wasn't the point he wanted to
make ... ask him.
Rick
Scotty
I was truly worried about you back then.
Scotty
"Donal" <do...@lanospamde.com> wrote in message
news:1013384145.28325....@news.demon.co.uk...
Capt.Mooron
state that it was dangerous to operate a diesel at less then the required
RPM to attain the rated HP. He implicitly said it would ruin a diesel.... he
back pedalled when I told him I routinely operate mine at 1800 rpm for the
past 8 years with no problems.
BTW - are you a Diesel Mechanic?
--
Capt. Mooron ©
S.V.Overproof
"Treat your Crew with Disdain.... and other Vessels with Distaste"
"Rick" <tu...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3C669486...@earthlink.net...
Rick
"Jaxxie did indeed state that it was dangerous to operate a diesel at
less then the required RPM to attain the rated HP. He implicitly said it
would ruin a diesel ..."
Where?
Jax wrote:
"As any and every diesel engine owner will tell without qualification, a
diesel MUST be run near flat our or
the damned falls apart virtually before you eyes.
The Throttle. Diesels don't have a throttle (if you ask diesel engine
owners. Diesels are started up and then run nearly
flat out, according to diesel owners, for if not the diesel falls
apart).
The throttle. Gas engines can pull it back just a tad and get twice the
fuel mileage. Diesel owners believe they can't.
The throttle. What a nice, new feature. And available only on a gas
engine, it seems."
I guess maybe he was a bit too subtle for the audience ... let me
highlight the important clues:
"As any and every diesel engine owner will tell without qualification
..."
"Diesels don't have a throttle (if you ask diesel engine owners."
" ...run nearly flat out, according to diesel owners ..."
" ...if not the diesel falls apart)."
"Diesel owners believe they can't."
"... available only on a gas engine, it seems."
What part of irony, sarcasm, humor, and plain old fashioned taking a
poke at self professed "experts" don't you get when reading this stuff?
You guys are on such a short chain that you break your necks every time
he walks past.
Rick
The_navigator©
engine gets huge milage when I'm sailing. This comparison is NOT USEFUL and,
if you are correct, Jackass has contributed nothing useful (as usual) in
his usual inflammatory way. What is the possible point of going on and on
and on and on and on and on and on and on about diesel engines anyway? Now
did you understand anything from my post at the start of the thread or is
simple direct language an anathema to you ? My point is that diesel engines
do not have a 'throttle' they have a governor controlled injection pump. But
then I don't know much about engines (as I stated) perhaps you know more and
can explain all there strange ideas he has?
Cheers MC
Rick
Then what do you call that lever thingy that makes the noise change?
>"... if you are correct, Jackass has contributed nothing useful
>(as usual) in his usual inflammatory way."
He started a huge thread, snagged a whole school of little fish, raised
the blood pressure of who knows how many readers, started a few others
thinking ... what else is this forum for?
>"What is the possible point of going on and on ...?"
Was that rhetorical or are you suddenly suicidal?
Rick
Capt.Mooron
Are you his Wednesday Date?
You know less about engines than he does... ha Ha Ha!
Now don't get your little knickers in a knot and start pounding that
keyboard [ and yourself] in a fit of gat anxiety.... I'm certain Jaxxie
will save some for you! did you leap in here unprepared to reassert yourself
because you got gay bashed at the bar again. It won't work you know! You'll
get slapped around here as well!
Stick to what you know about Rickets.... like fashion and flowers... :-D
Your posts are so Jaxxy like... I thought you were him for a while... so
it's probably kismet and the circle jerk is complete.... make sure you get
at the end so you can answer the phone!
You're such a flatulent little homo it's surprising you weren't here earlier
defending a point you don't have a clue about! Ha Ha Ha.... Be a good boy
and scurry off.... you know nothing and your views don't matter.... off with
you Rickets... that's a good little homo!
Rickets... The Littlest Homo!... Booby might make a screen play!
--
Capt. Mooron ©
S.V.Overproof
"Treat your Crew with Disdain.... and other Vessels with Distaste"
"Rick" <tu...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3C66DF69...@earthlink.net...
Martin Baxter
> . Booby might make a screen play!
>
Don't be daft Mooron, bob is at best a producer,
the lowest form of life among film and theatre types, never
has been, never will be, lacks the talent to be, a writer!
Cheers
Marty
The_navigator©
explained the operation.
Cheers MC.
Rick
The THROTTLE positions the speed control lever on a variable speed
governor controlling a diesel engine.
You haven't explained squat, just proven your ignorance of terminology
and function.
Rick
The_navigator©
Cheers MC
JAXAshby
even less than you think.
>
>Cheers MC.
JAXAshby
displacement hull goes up at the cube of speed, so cutting back boat speed even
10% results in the need for 1/3 less hp (and savings of the fuel needed), while
a 20% reduction in boat speed reduces hp needed by over half.
If range is needed, slowing down just a bit is the easiest way to achieve it.
JAXAshby
>state that it was dangerous to operate a diesel at less then the required
>RPM to attain the rated HP.
actually, moron, if you check it I attributed that statement to "diesel
huggers", tacitly (look the word up if you need to) stating I did not agree
with it. you, it seems, missed the irony.
Rick
Caterpillar, Cummins, MAN-B&W, Sulzer, MAK, a host of other marine
engine manufacturers and thousands of marine engineers past and present
called the valve, wheel, lever, switch or whatever other interface a
THROTTLE. Even the space shuttle has a throttle - remember the final
command to the Challenger?
But of course, the "navigator" knows better than all ... poor pedantic
little twit, get a life.
Rick
The_navigator©
you said it was an aeronautical thing, a while back I posted the equation for
aeronautical drag. Did it include a cubic term? Have you ever heard of Froude and
his tank testing experiments?
Cheers MC
The_navigator©
some steam engines but they may call it a regulator -I'm sure you can
explain the difference. But you never answered my question as to why you
think a diesel engine uses a throttle. Do you think that lever controls a
valve? If not, what does it control and why then do you call it a
'throttle'? I'm just trying to get to grips with your understanding of how
it all works because you seemed to profess deep insight and I really don't
know much about engines. Is asking you to share your knowledge being
pedantic?
Cheers MC
The_navigator©
abusive. I never said I knew better than all, quite the reverse actually. I
said that I knew very little about engines so I am at quite a loss to
explain what seems to be an emotional outburst at the end of your post.
Would you care to share your problems with us?
Cheers MC
¿
Rick
Since you seem to have trouble with reading comprehension, here it is
one last time:
*************
The THROTTLE positions the speed control lever of a variable speed
governor controlling a diesel engine.
*************
>"Is asking you to share your knowledge being pedantic?"
If you desire any more information I would be pleased to offer a short
course on marine engine governors in Seattle or at your location for
USD65.00 per hour plus expenses.
If, as your writings indicate, you are a teenager, your interest in the
operation of marine diesels is commendable and could lead to a
fulfilling career in the marine industry. Your attitude and response to
those who take time to aid in your education leaves a great deal to be
desired, however, and will not serve you well as you continue your
training.
Good luck in your future studies.
Rick
Capt.Mooron
--
Capt. Mooron ©
S.V.Overproof
"Treat your Crew with Disdain.... and other Vessels with Distaste"
"The_navigator©" <farr...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:3C6886B8...@excite.com...
Capt.Mooron
You said that ' diesels need to be run at peak rpm' .....
Want me to refresh you... I have the post!
Pay Up!.... or Shut Up!... never mind... just Shut Up! Already!
You Lost!
--
Capt. Mooron ©
S.V.Overproof
"Treat your Crew with Disdain.... and other Vessels with Distaste"
"JAXAshby" <jaxa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020211213216...@mb-fr.aol.com...
The_navigator©
straight. You are saying a 'lever thingy that makes the noise change' (as
you called a 'throttle') works on another 'lever' which by some contrivance
alters the speed of a governor? How does the lever alter the speed of a
rotating governor? Does it whip it like a top? Then the connection to the
'controlling a diesel engine ' seems quite unclear to me. As far as your
hourly charges, they seem a bit steep for an expert on 'lever thingies'.
Perhaps you could give us more insight into the depths of your knowledge on
diesel engines? This really is interesting as lots of people seem to have
them installed instead of these explosive A4's.
Finally you did not answer my question: "Is asking you to share your
knowledge being pedantic?" Can I take it from this reply that you no longer
feel aggression towards me or wish me ill? I am quite enjoying our
conversation and I would hate to have it ruined by unpleasantness.
Cheers MC
Rick wrote:
> Since you seem to have trouble with reading comprehension, here it is
> one last time:
>
> *************
>
> The THROTTLE positions the speed control lever of a variable speed
> governor controlling a diesel engine.
>
> *************
>
> >
>
Capt.Mooron
at Jaxxies... he gets pissed off .... surely MC you can offer him some
degree of Leeway?
Heh Rickets... think about it.... take a few days!
Maybe your drugs will have won off by then! :-D
--
Capt. Mooron ©
S.V.Overproof
"Treat your Crew with Disdain.... and other Vessels with Distaste"
"The_navigator©" <farr...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:3C688B5A...@excite.com...
JAXAshby
JAXAshby
no, actually Rick and I have crossed swords on a couple of items (a couple
items we still don't agree on), but Rick did convince me that piston travel in
a recipicating engine is never sinocoidal. That is the piston travels a shorter
distance between 90 and 270 degrees crank rotation than it does between 270 and
90, which means that rms of piston speed is greater than arithmatic average and
that engines with shorter rod relative to stroke have higher piston speeds.
>
>--
>Capt. Mooron ©
JAXAshby
JAXAshby
don't worry, oxzy, nobody is going to ask you to "look it up on the 'net".
you'd never figure out just how to do that, would you?
Oh, you tried but got lost? yup.
>On 12 Feb 2002 12:10:21 GMT, jaxa...@aol.com (JAXAshby) with a
>thumbnail dipped in tar wrote:
>
>>but Rick did convince me that piston travel in
>>a recipicating engine is never sinocoidal. That is the piston travels a
>shorter
>>distance between 90 and 270 degrees crank rotation than it does between 270
>and
>>90,
>
>Wanna buy a good used bridge Jocks?
>Bwaaahahaaa!
>
>
>
>
>
>
SkitchNYC
>distance between 90 and 270 degrees crank rotation than it does between 270
>and
Then how does it ever get back to 90 from 270?
Rick
Hot gases swoosh it up and down.
Rick
Rick
The wheel attached to the potentiometer that controls the direction and
speed of rotation of the marine steam engines that I operate 6 months of
each year is called a - throttle. There are regulators to control boiler
feed flow, temperatures, pressures, and levels on the auxiliary
machinery but it's a throttle that controls the engine.
>"... -I'm sure you can explain the difference."
To most people, yes. I don't believe you would be able to understand, or
are even interested. Learning, or sharing information, is not why you
post in this forum.
You are in over your head here, Nav. Even Jax has a better batting
record in this thread than you.
Rick
SkitchNYC
>
>Hot gases swoosh it up and down.
No, I mean if it travels farther on the way down than on the way up, it can
never get back to the top. At least this results from what Jackass claimed.
JAXAshby
What was said is that the piston moves more of its stroke during its 0 to 90
degree crank rotation than it does during the 90 to 180 rotation THEREFORE rms
speed is greater than "average" speed.
The_navigator©
Cheers MC
The_navigator©
Hohoohohohohohoohohohoh
Cheers MC
The_navigator©
Hohohohohohoh
Cheers MC
The_navigator©
Hohohohohohohoh
Cheers MC
The_navigator©
engine? By the way what is the lever called that alters the speed of a steam
engine (locomotive). What did James Watt call it?
Cheers MC
JAXAshby
JAXAshby
length. The net of that fact is that a piston always travels more of it's
stroke in the first 90 degrees than it does in the second.
Don't believe that? Well let me ask you just how far the piston has traveled by
90 degrees when the rod length = stroke?
(thanks to Rick Tuggs for making me aware of this)
JAXAshby
the word "paradigm" has no reality in this context. Please check your
dictionary before using such words.
pony express
--
Steve & Suzanne
S/V Pony Express
Express 30
www.express-sailing.com/owners
"JAXAshby" <jaxa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020212144201...@mb-cu.aol.com...
Bobsprit
never get back to the top. >>
Wow. What a complete toad brain!
Capt RB
Bobsprit
Damn, MC. EVERYONE is beating you like a dog! Even Ozzy and Skitch seem a bit
brighter!
Hoooowweeeee!!!
Capt RB
The_navigator©
Hint: Look up Froude and Torquay.
TWIT
Cheers MC
JAXAshby
edification
\Ed`i*fi*ca"tion\, n. [L. aedificatio: cf. F. ['e]dification. See Edify.] 1.
The act of edifying, or the state of being edified; a building up, especially
in a moral or spiritual sense
>... $65 Rickster, the engine has a flywheel (the big
>heavy disk thing at one end that goes raond and round and around) once
>it start moving it's quite difficult to stop although with a mouth
>like yours, you could possibly do it with your tongue :-)
>Woosh!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
The_navigator©
actually folded up on itself.
Cheers MC
The_navigator©
moved further in the first 180 than in the second 180. Fact. Go back and read YOUR
post. Second, for angles less than 180 the distance moved depends on the starting
point. Being an engineer wannabee you and Ricky no doubt measure from TDC. In this
case the piston moves exactly the same distance from 0-90 as 90-180. How can you be
so ignorant of simple geometry? Has the long term memory gone as well?
The exact equation (which I differentiated to get piston velocities) is:
Nah what's the point -you wouldn't understand it anyway.
Hohohohohohohoh
Cheers MC
The_navigator©
Cheers MC
Bobsprit
moved further in the first 180 than in the second 180. Fact. Go back and read
YOUR
post. >>
MC, I've been lurking on this thread for a while. You know NOTHING about
engines. Jax does. Do you think you can just jump point to point after losing
ground without looking like an ass?
You're pissing down your own leg, man!
Capt RB
JAXAshby
it. Let's try again: How much does the piston move through its stroke as the
crank moves from 90 degrees to 270 WHEN the rod length = stroke? (ans: Zero)
The_navigator©
the half cycles 90 to 270 deghree and 270 to 90 degrees. Those are exact opposite
semicircles. The distance the crank moves is therefore exactly the same as is the
distance moved by the rod and hence the piston. Why don't you post the
mathematical equation that gives the piston position as a function of crank
rotation?
JAXAshby
of rod length to stroke. The effect of that is that piston movement is greater
between 270 and 90 than it is between 90 and 270.
Get used to it.
Andrew Jones
are.
JAXAshby wrote:
> >RICK = JAXXIE ! ! !....... :-D
>
> no, actually Rick and I have crossed swords on a couple of items (a couple
> items we still don't agree on), but Rick did convince me that piston travel in
> a recipicating engine is never sinocoidal.
If you were to graph the speed of a piston relative to it crank angle for 360
degrees you would have a sine wave, "sinesoidal"
> That is the piston travels a shorter
> distance between 90 and 270 degrees crank rotation than it does between 270 and
> 90,
The piston travels the same distance in both cases because you are using crank
angles that are 180 degrees from each other. It is imposible, in your example, for
it to be any other answer.
> which means that rms of piston speed is greater than arithmatic average and
> that engines with shorter rod relative to stroke have higher piston speeds.
Engines with very long stroke and very long rods can acheive very high piston
speeds at high RPM. That is why diesel engines, which have long strokes and rods,
are low RPM engines, and gas engines, which have short strokes and rods, run at
high RPMs. The higher the RPM you want the shorter the stroke and the shorter the
rod lenght.
What is true about piston speed, is that a piston is travels at its highest speed
at 90 and 270 degrees and is at its slowest speed at 0 and 180 degrees.
>
>
>
> >
> >--
> >Capt. Mooron ©
Andrew Jones
Bobsprit
I want your nuts Jocks , totally and completly. NUTS!!!!
Bobsprit
>I want your nuts Jocks
Yep>>
JAXAshby
I'm an American. We have 360 degrees in a circle.
Rick
glaringly obvious that they have no interest in reasoned debate or the
exchange of information. They are more interested in impeding any
exchange than contributing to what could be informational or
instructive.
It's a shame but these types have driven any real discourse offline so
that this forum has degenerated to and will remain an elementary school
playground for a handful of vulgar fools with nothing better to do than
disrupt the forum with obscene one-liners and ill informed opinion.
The commercial maritime world is shadowed their sort, unfit to go to
sea, have no qualifications to get a ship, but can sit in a bar for days
and criticize the entire industry and those who sail in it. It makes for
amusing background noise while having a beer.
All the obscenities and slander in the world will not change physics or
thermodynamics or a century of marine engineering.
Arguing with these fools is like poking sticks at chained and beaten
dogs, it's cruel and makes a lot of irritating noise.
Rick
JAXAshby
>you
>are.
andrew, ask yourself this question: *IF* the length of the rod is exactly one
half the length of the stroke (nevermind the stresses on the system means the
engine couldn't run), how far has the piston moved down in it's stroke as the
crank moves from 0 to 90 degrees?
(ans: all the way, that is the entire stroke)
That means the piston moves not at all while the crank turns from 90 to 270
(remember the rod is the same length as the crank throw, the crank throw being
1/2 the stroke)
okay? How's that for "8th grade education"?
Capt.Mooron
You back Again? Ha Ha Ha
Commercial Maritime World.... now there is a JOKE!
Try engaging your brain before you shoot off your mouth!
Think about it... take a few days... take as long as you like!
You've managed to prove your incompetence here with your first post!
You are a dim witted, ignorant dupe at best.... a trolling Jax sock puppet
at worst.
You have provided us with unsubstantiated... back yard diesel mechanic
rhetoric ... which Frankly speaking... we already get from a lot of dubious
sources here. Run Along and go play somewhere else.... your ignorance is
showing and the badge of ' indignation' you so proudly wear is merely
another reason to rebuke your moth eaten, ignorant, useless information.
Rickets... you are not only a Dickweed .... but you have nothing what so
ever to contribute here.... go on... play somewhere else! Looser!
[ to Tadpole... pardon my drunken rant... :-D]
--
Capt. Mooron ©
S.V.Overproof
"Treat your Crew with Disdain.... and other Vessels with Distaste"
"Rick" <tu...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3C6A18C0...@earthlink.net...
Jeff Morris
fault is agreeing with Jax (which I admit is highly suspect). I re-read his
posts with my BS detector set on high and saw no obvious errors. Several
were far more informative than the norm around here.
-jeff
"The sport that requires the least effort" Albert Einstein on Sailing
"Capt.Mooron" <moo...@overproof.ca> wrote in message
news:0nwa8.33$pE1....@sapphire.mtt.net...
Capt.Mooron
only post so many wrong ones ... that it becomes a waste of bandwidth and
effort.
You are in a situation..... of deplorable math and redundant confusion...
entirely by your own making.
Go cry to Donal's ISP again..... that's where you 'MENSA"' ... ha ha ha....
folks get your reckoning!
Quit Crying and Fainting!
--
Capt. Mooron ©
S.V.Overproof
"Treat your Crew with Disdain.... and other Vessels with Distaste"
"JAXAshby" <jaxa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020213111112...@mb-cg.aol.com...
Capt.Mooron
I will explain my position in regards to my treatment of Rick Tuggs...
If you can understand the 'Concept' of attracting more bees with honey than
Vinegar..... you'll understand that Ricket's contributions were not only
redundant, obvious and unrequited..... but presented with a tone that
required quashing.
Had he approached the thread with a more calculated and reasoned flair... he
might have managed to contribute as opposed to distribute his modicum of
knowledge to a more appreciating audience. You are after all the architect
of your own place on the food chain.... and Rickets has advertised his
preference for acknowledgment as bottom feeding prey!
As I judged your input into this group ...prior to deciding it's validity...
you have shown that valuable information can be input without invective.
This is not the case with Rickets.... his information came bundled in a
wrapping of insult and predujudice. This type of exchange can only be met
with arrogance and dismissed as dubious.
Don't Blame me if I shoot the messenger bringing me yet more news I already
received via carrier pigeon.... Rickets is a day late and a dollar short...
I'm certain he is used to that by now.
I will continue to dismiss his input as invalid ... until he publicly
apologises for his indiscretions and reforms his manner and tone of posts.
I'm certain he has already KF'd me. he is after all ... blind to the truth.
[ Again... My Apologies to Tadpole for my "Drunken Outburst".. :-D]
I need another Drink..... :-D
--
Capt. Mooron ©
S.V.Overproof
"Treat your Crew with Disdain.... and other Vessels with Distaste"
"Jeff Morris" <je...@noSPAMsv-loki.com> wrote in message
news:a4e4vh$o1k$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
Rick
of a small beaten dog ....
Probably just an echo, there seems to be a lot of it going around.
Rick
Rick
Unlike too many others in this forum, I do not let personalities dictate
physics or technology. If Jax were wrong I would, as I have many times
in the past, call BS on his errors. It takes less time to find the
correct answer than it does to trash someone for posting the truth - or
a fiction.
It has been very amusing to watch the technically illiterate make fools
of themselves here by trashing a concept, not on its merits or validity,
but merely by its author. If those who trashed Jax the loudest and
longest were capable of understanding the concept or could defend their
own position with more than obscenities and slander then perhaps they
would be worthy of the "respect" that at least one of them took such
offense at not receiving.
Most of what has been written here as argument against Jax's position re
diesel fuel economy and the latest stroke length debate(?) is in the
street thug class of "Hey, MoFo, I'll kill you for dissin me." It is
difficult to take seriously one whose only argument or response is a
string of poorly articulated four letter words having nothing to do
with diesels or marine propulsion.
Thanks for being one of the very few with the brains to research an idea
which goes against the crowd mentality exhibited here, and for having
the decency to post your findings. They could just as easily (or worked
just as hard as you did) to find the truth, but like rabble everywhere,
find it much easier to sit at the bar and trash the messenger.
Rick
Capt.Mooron
--
Capt. Mooron ©
S.V.Overproof
"Treat your Crew with Disdain.... and other Vessels with Distaste"
"Rick" <tu...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3C6A52FC...@earthlink.net...
JAXAshby
>
>Unlike too many others in this forum, I do not let personalities dictate
>physics or technology. If Jax were wrong I would, as I have many times
>in the past, call BS on his errors.
Rick still does not agree with me that a diesel engine requires more cooling
air than a gas engine, but what the hey!.
Like I said, he did convince me that piston travel is not uniform, but rather
is correlated to rod vs stroke length.
JAXAshby
>thumbnail dipped in tar wrote:
>
>>Jax, why do you insist on arguing with these cretins? It should be
>>glaringly obvious that they have no interest in reasoned debate or the
>>exchange of information. They are more interested in impeding any
>>exchange than contributing to what could be informational or
>>instructive.
>
>travels a diferent length of its stroke between 90 and 270 degrees
>than it does between 270 and 90.
>Jocks ascerts that you convinced him that this is fact not a figment
>of his very fertile imagination. IOW he's full of it
Kriste Almightly, oxzy, I've been telling for three days.
You want me to confuse you? Okay. While the length of a rod is constant, its
angle (or "verticalness" if you will) changes continuously. In other words,
*if* a rod were like the lifter against a camshaft, *then* the stroke of a
piston would map one to one with crank rotation. However, because the angle
changes, the vertical movement of the piston changes with BOTH the crank
rotation AND the angle of the rod to the piston. The net is piston travel is
ALWAYS greater between 0 and 90 than it is between 90 and 180.
Grab a pencil and paper and draw a piston connected to a rod that is 1/2 the
length of the stroke, piston at TDC, then at 90 degrees. At 90 degrees, the
piston is at the bottom of the stroke, with the rod crank journal moving with
the crank while the wrist pin stays in one place
(ignore that the stresses of the 1/2 stroke length rod would'n't work)
Because the rod changes the angle at which it pushes the piston, there is no
rod length for which the piston does not move so some crank rotation.
>
>Your cretinous audience awaits with bated breath
>
>
>
>
>
>
JAXAshby
anything new for you to learn in this world.
>On 13 Feb 2002 16:11:12 GMT, jaxa...@aol.com (JAXAshby) with a
>thumbnail dipped in tar wrote:
>
>>>I can't believe than anyone with an 8th grade education could be as wrong
>as
>>>you
>>>are.
>>
>>andrew, ask yourself this question: *IF* the length of the rod is exactly
>one
>>half the length of the stroke (nevermind the stresses on the system means
>the
>>engine couldn't run), how far has the piston moved down in it's stroke as
>the
>>crank moves from 0 to 90 degrees?
>>
>>(ans: all the way, that is the entire stroke)
>>
>You've got to be joking Jocks.
>draw yourself a little picture, make a model, it's quite obvious you
>are unable to see it in your minds eye.
>Ask yourself the question,
>If the piston moves its entire stroke between 0 and 90 degrees, what
>does it do as the crank then moves from 90 to 180?
>If your answer if nothing, I suggest you drown yourself ASAP!
>
>
>
>
>
>
Bobsprit
physics or technology. If Jax were wrong I would, as I have many times
in the past, call BS on his errors. >>
Well said, Rick. I've been watching the debate for a while. I see carefully
written explanations from Jax and a lot of yelling and crying from Ozzy, Moron
and others. Same goes for Steve's recent post about where to mount a block.
Even when I got the correct info from Pearson owners, he still couldn't accept
it.
It's not about sailing and learning for these people. It's about winning the
shouting match. Against Jax, Myself and a few others they have no chance. And
amidst the volume of their own idiocy they learn nothing.
Thank you for your calm and measured post, though it will fall on mostly deaf
(and dumb) ears.
Capt RB
Capt.Mooron
would kowtow to your supposed technical expertise is your typical
operational parameters... then I'm certain you are quite familiar with the
'street thug' greeting it inspires.
You strike me as easily wounded and searching for respect... you have not
earned. In the future ... take time to set the standards by which you wish
to be engaged. If you gained any disrespect... it was earned by your tone
and style.
If you know Jax.. as you claim... and have crossed swords... as you claim...
then you should understand that 99% of his posts are trolls or outright
fabrications
.
I wouldn't waste the time to verify or acknowledge any post by Jax.... and I
spend even less time entertaining someone who by sheer lack of judgement ...
finds themselves agreeing with the premise of a known liar and troll.
I'd advise you take your indignant... hard done by attitude and keep walking
down the dock.... I'm certain someone might take the time to judge you in
better light... I for one have had my fill of your holier than thou
attitude.
BTW - I mean all this in the nicest way Rickets.... please don't take
offence.
:-D
--
Capt. Mooron ©
S.V.Overproof
"Treat your Crew with Disdain.... and other Vessels with Distaste"
"Rick" <tu...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3C6A59F7...@earthlink.net...
Bobsprit
Moron, you appear to be dedicating YOUR LIFE to Jax and his posts at this
point. It's amazing that you'd write the above!
Capt RB
Bobsprit
earned.>>>
Moron, you quickly dance into the fire for a new member. No sooner does he say
jump then you LEAP into doing exactly what he accuses you of.
Your post has no substance. Jax and Rick have defended their points in detail.
All you have done is present a lot of insults and useless attacks.
Rick called you on it and all you managed was do it again.
Shame on you.
Capt RB
Bobsprit
attitude.>>>
meaning: You backed up your views with actual knowledge and facts.
Capt RB
The_navigator©
So you the 'diesel expert' correct Jackass BS do you? So how do you explain
missing this:
:
> mc, I gave you the hint on rod length, but it seems you didn't bother to
read
> it. Let's try again: How much does the piston move through its stroke as
>the crank moves from 90 degrees to 270 WHEN the rod length = stroke? (ans:
Zero)
Why not be honest for once in your $65/hr life. You were not in the
slightest interested in engineering questions.
You wanted to make noise. Let me repost YOUR message:
>Who cares how long the crankshaft is, try playing with the length of the
>connecting rod (remember that funny looking thing between the crank and
>the piston?) and get back to us.
Which shows YOU have no idea what determines the velocity of the piston. At
least Jackass had an idea that rod length played a role!
Then:
>He started a huge thread, snagged a whole school of little fish, raised
>the blood pressure of who knows how many readers, started a few others
>thinking ... what else is this forum for?
From this, I think it's pretty clear what your motives are.
You are a noise maker and not very clever or funny. If you want to educate
then do so, but don't wade in with such an attitude. Now if you want to
impress me/us try to differentiate and integrate the (correct?) equation I
gave. Then you can tell us why cranklength is so important for engine
reliability -especially at high RPM. One more thing, did you find out yet
that there is no THROTTLE on a diesel engine?
Hohohohohohoohohoh
Cheers MC
PS Are you from NY as well?
Rick
>Who cares how long the crankshaft is, try playing with the length of the
>connecting rod (remember that funny looking thing between the crank and
>the piston?) and get back to us.
To which you replied weakly:
"Which shows YOU have no idea what determines the velocity
of the piston. At least Jackass had an idea that rod length
played a role!"
Ready - Fire - Aim ??
Let me repeat the lines you quoted without reading:
Who cares how long the CRANKSHAFT is, try playing with the length of the
CONNECTING ROD ...
The length of a crankshaft has nothing to do with the stroke. A single
cylinder engine can have the same stroke as an inline 8 - big difference
in crank length though ... the stroke is determined by THROW, the
distance between crankshaft centerline and centerline of the crankpin.
If you are going to argue about engines at least know what some of the
parts are and what they do.
Geez, talk about taking a knife to a gunfight. And you wonder why you
are "talked down" to ...
Give it up guys, you've lost this one big time and Jax lead the charge!
Rick
Rick
Recognizing your condition is a major step forward. This is a good sign.
Keep up the good work.
I will not do your homework for you.
Ask Jax, maybe he will explain how to demonstrate for yourself if it is
possible for you to stop being an ass for a few minutes.
You may breathe now.
Rick
Donal
>
> Give it up guys, you've lost this one big time and Jax lead the charge!
Poor Rick. Or, more concisely, P.Rick, or even Prick.
Regards
Donal
--
Bobsprit
They're down to just inane comments now. Thanks, Jax, for teaching these morons
(and Moron himself) a few things.
Well done!!
Capt RB
The_navigator©
ENTIRE converstation was about the relationship between throw and velocity
and stroke. At least, I was talking about piston velocity, Jackass was
talking about velocity/position but the great $65/hr engineer Rick was
talking about distance between end bearings?
You TWIT
You really are from NY aren't you?
Hohohohohohooh
Cheers MC
Rick ignored the subject yet again:
The_navigator©
The piston does not move if the crank is half the stroke. The piston just stays in
the middle of the crank shaft. If such a geometry were possible the crank would
come round and the piston would get smacked by the crank and the f**cking lot
disintegrates! Actually it now sounds a bit like an A4 doncha think?
You TWIT
When you've worked it out please explain it all to you half wit friend Rick.
Hohohohohohohoohohohoh
Cheers MC
Scotty
"JAXAshby" wrote
The_navigator©
Cheers MC
Rick
forum is the only place left you can get your kicks by writing really
stupid stuff ...
Let me refresh your memory since you seem to have problems in that area
as well as reading and comprehension. The following is your post to
which I referred. I know you have been very busy back-pedaling but stop
stroking for a moment and read very very carefully.
*******************
Subject: Piston velocity -the proof
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 12:26:01 +1300
From: The navigator© <farr...@excite.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sailing.asa
Simple maths shows that the piston velocity in a piston-crank engine is
very close to (due to truncation of a series expression):
-RW(sin(x) -Rsin(2x)/2L)
Where W is the angular velocity of the crank (in radians per second) R
the throw of the crank and L the length of the crankshaft and x ...
********************
In case you are still confused and disoriented, let me repeat the item
which you seem to have so much trouble with, among others ... :
>>"and L the length of the crankshaft ..."
Did you get that? Here it is, one more time just to be sure you
understand what YOU wrote:
>>"and L the length of the CRANKSHAFT ..."
Do you have any other items to which you would like to object? give it
up Nav, you're so far over your head it is embarrassing to watch you
continue. And I am beginning to feel a little bit guilty about slapping
around someone who can't defend himself.
Let Jax continue your education, you've failed my class but maybe he
will take a "special ed" student.
Rick
Scotty
"Rick" <tu...@earthlink.net> wrote...
Scotty
"Donal" <do...@lanospamde.com> wrote in message
news:1013649945.15380....@news.demon.co.uk...
The_navigator©
you are honest. So shoot me, I said length of crankshaft and I should have
said the length of the crank. Can you explain why any real engineer reading
a discussion on piston velocity with that equation could have not realized
that L is NOT the length between end bearings asnd I must have made a slip
of the tongue?
You are a complete and utter TWIT by your own admission!
You really don't even begin to understand the equation I posted do you? I
suggest you stick to what you know matte -Levers that make the "engine more
noisy". Ever been sailing?
Cheers MC
Scotty
welcome to the club.
"Rick" wrote ...
The_navigator©
cage and let them run away.
Hohohohohohohohoh
Cheers MC
JAXAshby
really, scootts? How is that?
JAXAshby
JAXAshby
sorry, mc, I assumed a bit of ordinary knowledge on your part. 0 degrees is at
TDC
The_navigator©
Hohohohohohohohoh
Cheers MC
> Idiot Rick dribbled:
Rick
No, you don't understand what you are talking about. Your maths are
inadequate to represent the motions of a crankpin, rod and piston in a
cylinder.
I am tiring of beating up on those who cannot defend themselves with
facts and pity has taken over so I will try and explain it to you.
If the connecting rod were of infinite length, so that it were always
parallel to the centerline of the cylinder the movement of the piston
would be equally distributed at each end of the stroke, i.e. the mid
point of the stroke would occur at the 90 and 270 degree points of crank
angle.
In reality, the angular displacement of a connecting rod of "normal"
length means that there is greater piston travel above the 90/270
position than below. Since the rotational velocity of the crankpin can
be considered constant I will leave it to you to consider the effect on
piston acceleration.
Any steam engineering text from around the turn of the century (1900)
will contain excellent diagrams to illustrate the motion. This was
important to the setting of valve displacement for adjusting cutoff on
reciprocating steam engines.
Does any of this really matter now? Unless you are the vibration
engineer on a team designing high speed engines, no.
Lesson 2: Think before you start trashing an idea which you cannot
comprehend, or those who present it.
Rick
The_navigator©
Hohohohohoohohohohoho
Cheers MC