Compass Query

[Bobsprit]

Here's another compass question.....

Can someone with experience explain how a 100 dollar Rule binnacle compass
would be "outperformed" by a 300 dollar model?

Thanks,

RB

[d parker]

Damping, lighting, card, magnets, glass, ink,.. Don't worry though Bobby.
Just buy the $100 job. You don't need the other one.

DP
"Bobsprit" <bobs...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020307095947...@mb-fo.aol.com...

[MacScotty]

and stick a $300 price tag on the cheaper one.

"d parker" <davep...@optusnet.com.au> wrote ...

[JAXAshby]

>Damping, lighting, card, magnets, glass, ink,.. Don't worry though Bobby.
>Just buy the $100 job. You don't need the other one.

Yup, you'll notice nothing was said about the $300 job being more accurate.

>
>DP

[Bobsprit]

Damping, lighting, card, magnets, glass, ink,.. Don't worry though Bobby.
Just buy the $100 job. You don't need the other one.>>

Can someone explain why the 300 dollar model would be useful over a 100 dollar
model for coastal cruising. DP is a scumbag and has no practical
answer...again.
Perhaps the experienced Mooron can help?

Capt RB

[JAXAshby]

It isn't.

>
>Capt RB
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Jeff Morris]

The biggest obvious difference is the size of the card. Its a lot easier to
read the larger card. The damping also has a large affect. The better
compasses can handle temperature better - it can get extremely hot inside
the globe.

I didn't think you had that many options with a binnacle compass - which
$100 compass are you talking about? If you must replace the compass on
Ghost I would get the cheapest one that is reasonable for your binnacle.
You'll probably be sailing by GPS more than compass.

-jeff

"Bobsprit" <bobs...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20020307111717...@mb-cg.aol.com...

[Douglas King]

> "Bobjaxxit" wrote...

> > Here's another compass question.....
> >
> > Can someone with experience explain how a 100 dollar Rule binnacle compass
> > would be "outperformed" by a 300 dollar model?

You'd have to look at the specific compasses in question. Some companies like to
sell a $75 compass for $300 in a fancy box.

>
>
> d parker wrote:
> Damping, lighting, card, magnets, glass, ink,.. Don't worry though Bobby.
> Just buy the $100 job. You don't need the other one.

True enough, Boobsie isn't likely to notice the difference.

All else equal, bigger = better. If for no other reason than the card face is
easier to read. The difference in damping can be dramatic... I have a fairly
nice 4" card compass (real size, not under magnification from the dome) on my
Lightning and it is much steadier and easier to follow than some guys 5"
"apparent card size" (ie magnified) compasses.

For a cruising boat compass, I think the compensator package is important too.
The big Plastimo we have on our trailerable has a pair of small plastic boxes,
with corrector magnet inside, that lock into place inside the compass housing.
The compass is not shipped or stored with the correctors in place, which strikes
me as a great idea. Since we have less than 5 degrees deviation in one quadrant,
I've never seen any need to use the correctors and left them in the box. Some of
the big fancy compasses are correctable for dip, too. But I think most cruisers
either carry seperate compasses or just make do.

Anybody going to stick around and read JAXbobbit's definitive book on how to
compensate your seagoing "$50 bought at cost" compass?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

[Bobsprit]

I didn't think you had that many options with a binnacle compass - which
$100 compass are you talking about? If you must replace the compass on
Ghost I would get the cheapest one that is reasonable for your binnacle.
You'll probably be sailing by GPS more than compass.>>

Hey, Jeff...Rule sells a couple of Binnacle units for under 100. Defender has
them. There's also a model for about $150. They have smaller cards than some of
the "expensive" units.

RB

[d parker]

"JAXAshby" <jaxa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020307111522...@mb-mq.aol.com...

Not much point really Jax. :-)

DP

[JAXAshby]

>> Yup, you'll notice nothing was said about the $300 job being more
>accurate.
>
>Not much point really Jax. :-)

Depends on whether you wish to use the compass for its accuracy or its
decoration value.

>
>DP

[Capt.Mooron]

Ya dumb shit.... now you're saying a $300 compass will point ... what
..further North... faster North.... than a $100 compass?

... even a 2 grand compass wouldn't help you find that elusive Gulf Stream
Jerks... :-D

--
Capt. Mooron ©
S.V.Overproof
"Treat your Crew with Disdain.... and other Vessels with Distaste"

"JAXAshby" <jaxa...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20020307125702...@mb-ba.aol.com...

[Capt.Mooron]

Robert... accuracy is a rather moot point... they all point North. Some have
better adjustment capabilities for variation/deviation or better fluid to
dampen the swing and also a jewelled pin for easier spin. Some are made of
plastic and others of brass etc. Some are fragile and cannot take an impact
to the glass dome or cover.... some have bullet-proof glass domes and are
sealed better. Some are refillable others aren't.

A $100 compass will do just fine ... even on extended passages. Select the
model that has the features you deem most important and at the best price.
You don't need a $300 compass. Mine is the Saturna Bulkhead ... I believe
its about $100 .... it works just fine.

The caveat here is to make sure to go out and adjust it ... and record the
deviations at each 15 degree increment. Your main compass should always be
oriented to Magnetic North.

--
Capt. Mooron ©
S.V.Overproof
"Treat your Crew with Disdain.... and other Vessels with Distaste"

"Bobsprit" <bobs...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20020307111717...@mb-cg.aol.com...

[Capt.Mooron]

Card size and degree increments are not generally regarded as indications of
the value or construction of the compass.

--
Capt. Mooron ©
S.V.Overproof
"Treat your Crew with Disdain.... and other Vessels with Distaste"

"Bobsprit" <bobs...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20020307122056...@mb-mq.aol.com...

[The_navigator©]

Now that is completely beyond his ability. SB swinging a compass? Don't be
ridiculous.

Cheers MC

[Capt.Mooron]

Yeah... but I'm trying positive reinforcement! :-D

--
Capt. Mooron ©
S.V.Overproof
"Treat your Crew with Disdain.... and other Vessels with Distaste"

"The_navigator©" <farr...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:3C87CC89...@excite.com...

[JAXAshby]

oxzy, you're not stupid enough to think you can "get there" by pointing your
boat by the compass, are you?

Ever been on a boat, oxzy?

>On 07 Mar 2002 16:15:22 GMT, jaxa...@aol.com (JAXAshby) wrote:
>
>>>Damping, lighting, card, magnets, glass, ink,.. Don't worry though Bobby.
>>>Just buy the $100 job. You don't need the other one.
>>

>>Yup, you'll notice nothing was said about the $300 job being more accurate.
>

>It's not Jocks!
>
>The card will still indicate North on both.
>
>until outside influences affect it the cheapy will be just as
>accurate.
>The difference is that the dear one usually has better systems to
>cope/compensate with the outside influences
>
>
>
>
>
>Oz1...of the 3 twins
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Jeff Morris]

Oh Goody! This is where Jax tells us that its impossible to navigate with a
compass because it requires a detailed understanding of Einstein's Theory of
Relativity. Power Squadron, Jaxie, Power Squadron!

-jeff
"The sport that requires the least effort" Albert Einstein on Sailing

"JAXAshby" <jaxa...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20020307163709...@mb-ba.aol.com...

[JAXAshby]

no, jeffie, this the point that JAX with the experience tells you without that
you can't navigate with a compass.

[Jeff Morris]

jaxie, your learning disabilities are showing - care to try that again?

-jeff
"The sport that requires the least effort" Albert Einstein on Sailing

"JAXAshby" <jaxa...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20020307164840...@mb-ba.aol.com...

[JAXAshby]

ah HA! yes, of course, oxzy! Of course! You use a compass for decoration.

>On 07 Mar 2002 21:37:09 GMT, jaxa...@aol.com (JAXAshby) wrote:
>
>>oxzy, you're not stupid enough to think you can "get there" by pointing your
>>boat by the compass, are you?
>

>Hello, hello?
>Anybody in there?
>Jocks please re read the statement I made SLOWLY.
>I made no reference to using the compass.
>
>Again a point to me and an attempt to squirm away from you.
>
>Bwaaahahaaaa!

>>
>>Ever been on a boat, oxzy?
>>
>>
>>>On 07 Mar 2002 16:15:22 GMT, jaxa...@aol.com (JAXAshby) wrote:
>>>
>>>>>Damping, lighting, card, magnets, glass, ink,.. Don't worry though Bobby.
>>>>>Just buy the $100 job. You don't need the other one.
>>>>
>>>>Yup, you'll notice nothing was said about the $300 job being more
>accurate.
>>>
>>>It's not Jocks!
>>>
>>>The card will still indicate North on both.
>>>
>>>until outside influences affect it the cheapy will be just as
>>>accurate.
>>>The difference is that the dear one usually has better systems to
>>>cope/compensate with the outside influences
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Oz1...of the 3 twins
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>

>Oz1...of the 3 twins
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Donal]

"JAXAshby" <jaxa...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20020307164840...@mb-ba.aol.com...

> no, jeffie, this the point that JAX with the experience tells you without
that
> you can't navigate with a compass.
>

You are really soooo sad! What on Earth do you think that you are talking
about?

Yeah, go on "10 gallon...... <blather><blather>".

Your daughter must quiver with embarrassement every time that her father
opens his mouth.

Regards

Donal
--

[JAXAshby]

let me break it up for you

>jaxie, your learning disabilities are showing - care to try that again?
>
>-jeff
>"The sport that requires the least effort" Albert Einstein on Sailing
>
>"JAXAshby" <jaxa...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20020307164840...@mb-ba.aol.com...

here goes

>> no, jeffie, this the point that **JAX with the experience** tells **you
without**

[d parker]

"JAXAshby" <jaxa...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20020307125702...@mb-ba.aol.com...

No it not much point going into detail. It is only a Bobby troll, it isn't
like he is about to use one.

DP

[Bobsprit]

The caveat here is to make sure to go out and adjust it ... and record the
deviations at each 15 degree increment. Your main compass should always be
oriented to Magnetic North.>>>

Mooron, thanks for your well measured advice. I wonder if anyone else here has
anywhere near your knowledge and good temper.
In any case, I will probably get the Saturn Compass. My friend with the Bristol
(He's a delivery captain) will help me swing it.
Thanks.

RB

[Rick]

>"Some have better adjustment capabilities for variation ..."

And which magnetic compasses have this variation adjustment feature?

Rick

[d parker]

"Oz1" <ozsa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2ktf8u488cdhlu11v...@4ax.com...

> Like what else is he going to put on that pedestal.......a condom?

He could have a little shelf to keep the Diazepam

DP

[Donal]

"Rick" <tu...@dearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3C880106...@dearthlink.net...

> >"Some have better adjustment capabilities for variation ..."
>
> And which magnetic compasses have this variation adjustment feature?

Gawd Ricky, you are really struggling to try to pick an argument here.

What is wrong with you? You know, and I know, and everybody else knows
*exactly* what Mooron meant.

Lame....lame....lame!

You obviously do know some stuff.... but you do yourself a great disservice
by being so picky!

If you stick to passing on *your* knowledge, then I will appreciate your
input. If you really feel the need to engage in "Bob'nJax" style arguments,
then you are wasting your talents. You are not as stupid as Jax, and you
are not as good a Troll as Bob.

Regards

Donal
--

[Jeff Morris]

Yes jaxie, we all know that navigating with a compass, especially in limited
visibility or with a current requires experience. You however, have about
as much cruising experience as the Tidy Bowl Man.

--

-jeff
"The sport that requires the least effort" Albert Einstein on Sailing

"JAXAshby" <jaxa...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20020307182353...@mb-mq.aol.com...

[Bobsprit]

You however, have about
as much cruising experience as the Tidy Bowl Man.>>

Jeff, are you saying that the Tidy Bowl Man is a poor navigator?

RB

[Jeff Morris]

Well, actually I was thinking more in terms of his range of travel. Since
the Tidy Bowl Man wears that cute blue jacket he's probably a Power Squadron
member - that would make Mr Bowl a much better navigator than jaxie.

http://www.getodd.com/news/120101.html

--
-jeff
"The sport that requires the least effort" Albert Einstein on Sailing

"Bobsprit" <bobs...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020307201825...@mb-dh.aol.com...

[Per Elmsäter]

I'm contemplating buying one that cost $700. Will Bobsprit respect me then
and stop chasing my mom around? She is 80 you know and complaining a little
bit by now.
Oh, I've got it. I'll have my mom tell his mom. Hehe, that ought to do it
and I can get away with a $50 comapass.

--
Perre²

"Bobsprit" <bobs...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20020307095947...@mb-fo.aol.com...

> Here's another compass question.....
>
> Can someone with experience explain how a 100 dollar Rule binnacle compass
> would be "outperformed" by a 300 dollar model?
>

> Thanks,
>
> RB

[Rick]

>"You know, and I know, and everybody else knows
>*exactly* what Mooron meant."

No I don't know, I just went by the fact that he wrote:

>"Some have better adjustment capabilities for variation/deviation"

He wrote both so he must have meant that both are adjustable. This isn't
just a troll based on a simple and excusable misuse of a common term. I
avoid attacking others for the mistakes which I am prone to make myself
... that is a dangerous practice. It really does appear that the self
described "captain" may not know the difference and I am not so generous
as to give a "captain" a pass on such an egregious failing. Particularly
given his history on this forum.

Rick

[Capt.Mooron]

Yeah... I kinda screwed up on the detail there... I was thinking compasses
in general when I stepped into that hole.... some Hand Compasses have finer
capabilities with a screw for adjustment on the outer bezel... this of
course would not be found on a binnacle compass.
I'm not sure if this is a feature available on Fluxgate compasses... but I
believe that they manufacture fluxgate models that might fit into a binnacle
mount.

--
Capt. Mooron ©
S.V.Overproof
"Treat your Crew with Disdain.... and other Vessels with Distaste"

"Rick" <tu...@dearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3C880106...@dearthlink.net...

[The_navigator©]

I suggest you go back and re-read Donal's post. It was spot on and frankly
Mooron couldn't care less if you give him a pass or not. He thinks you are
worthless -now do you get it?

Cheers MC.

[The_navigator©]

Out of kindness I will help you this once as your memory is obviously weak.

Date: 2002-02-28 Mooron posted:

You should always have a standard hand bearing compass as back up on your
vessel. Weather you elect to use it on a regular basis or not is up to you.
You should be familiar with it and have the variation offset correctly
adjusted for your area or at least memorized. What is the variation for your

area Robert? Remember.... Variation East - Magnetic Least / Variation West -

Magnetic Best.

Although your vessel's onboard compass should have both Deviation and
Variation adjustments recorded and on hand ... e.g.: compass deviation chart

on your navigation folder...... your binocular fluxgate compass may not
have the same reading or accuracy of a well adjusted main compass. The same
is true for a handheld bearing compass.... always take multiple bearings
from the same position aboard your vessel. Deviation can effect the
accuracy of a handheld as well.

OK? Now if you want a quick flame, why don't you go and play TUGS with Booby
and Jackass?

Cheers MC

[The_navigator©]

He's goading you on the use of the term 'variation' not on whether compasses can
be adjusted for deviation. See the worm for what he really is Mooron.

Cheers MC

[Rick]

>"Hand Compasses have finer capabilities with a screw for adjustment
>on the outer bezel..."

I think that is for "zeroing" the card when the compensating magnets
have done all they can do and the error is near to zilch. Never owned a
hand compass (if you mean one of those things with a hand grip and a
dome) so that is really a guess - do those things even have compensating
magnets?

Anyway, variation just is, it can't be adjusted out.

Rick

[The_navigator©]

Since you are now trying to be more reasonable I will as you to think for a
moment. Why would a hand bearing compass have compensation magnets? What are
compass compensation magnets for? Why then does talk of compensation magnets
in a hand bearing compass make no sense at all?

Cheers MC

[Rick]

>"Although your vessel's onboard compass should have both Deviation and
>Variation adjustments recorded and on hand"

Variation is not adjustable, "Navigator." And where do you, the
"navigator", record your "variation adjustments" after you adjust it?
Tell me how you adjust your variation aside from going someplace else on
the Earth?

Variation is added or subtracted in plotting but there is no way for
mere mortals to adjust it. Slam me all you like, but that is a fact.

Rick

[Rick]

>"Why would a hand bearing compass have compensation magnets? What are
>compass compensation magnets for? Why then does talk of compensation
>magnets in a hand bearing compass make no sense at all?"

Please read the following that was in the post you refer to:

>"(if you mean one of those things with a hand grip and a dome) so that
>is really a guess - do those things even have compensating magnets?

That statement and the question included make it pretty clear that I am
not sure if those things have compensation magnets in them ... they may
or may not. The adjustment Mooron referred to may be the hand compass
method of compensation as I stated.

>"What are compass compensation magnets for?"

Is that a serious question or are you just being contentious? I will
assume it is rhetorical since you sign yourself as "navigator".

Rick

[MacScotty]

Are you 100% sure?
;)

"The_navigator©" <fart...@excite.com> wrote ...

>It was spot on and frankly

> Mooron couldn't care less if you make a pass at him.
>

[The_navigator©]

Sure! At least he recognises a shot across his bows.

Cheers MC

[MacScotty]

Rick, you sent your personal email for Bobby, to the NG. Duh!

"Rick" <tugs...@duh.net> wrote ...
> Slam me all you like.
>
> Rick

[MacScotty]

Big belt buckle?

"The_navigator©" <farr...@excite.com> wrote ...

[Rick]

>"Hand Compasses have finer capabilities with a screw
>for adjustment on the outer bezel ..."

Just realized that those little "orienteering" type compasses that
hikers use can be adjusted for variation to eliminate the need to do the
maths. Are they the ones you mean? Have never seen that feature on a
marine compass though.

Rick

[The_navigator©]

Rick the above was a quote from Mooron not me. Try to pay attention.

Cheers MC

[The_navigator©]

Yes that would do it, but only if ferrous I think. A real navigator
would use brass.

LOL

Cheers MC

[The_navigator©]

For good reason. Calcs and plotting are recorded on paper and provide a
legal record -should it ever come to that.

Cheers MC

[Douglas King]

"Per Elmsäter" wrote:

> I'm contemplating buying one that cost $700. Will Bobsprit respect me then
> and stop chasing my mom around?

No, that will only make Bobjaxxit envy you, and he will cast aspersions at your
boat in a feeble attempt to pump up his self-esteem.

> She is 80 you know and complaining a little
> bit by now.
> Oh, I've got it. I'll have my mom tell his mom. Hehe, that ought to do it
> and I can get away with a $50 comapass.

Only if you buy it "at cost."

DSK

[Bobsprit]

You didn't know that?????>>

Know what, Scumbag? Can you even track a thread through the haze, Scumbag?

RB

[Bobsprit]

No, that will only make Bobjaxxit envy you, and he will cast aspersions at your
boat>>>

Hunter 19 folks!

Bwahahahaha!

RB

[Rick]

>"Ahhh so adding/subtracting is not adjusting ..."

No, it is calculating, a step in the process of plotting. Adjusting a
compass is a means to correct the display for errors due to external
magnetic influences peculiar to the installation. Adjusting alters the
physical position of the card or changes the digits of a readout to
display a more accurate representation of the vessel's magnetic heading.

This is not just semantics, it is fundamental to navigation.

Rick

[d parker]

"Bobsprit" <bobs...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20020308071910...@mb-fo.aol.com...

> You didn't know that?????>>
>
> Know what, Scumbag? Can you even track a thread through the haze, Scumbag?
>
> RB

Leave him alone. Just because you aren't man enough to enjoy the better
things in life, like getting smashed. Don't pick on Oz because he does. Oz's
reputation as a drinker and womaniser is solid throughout the Aussie
yachting world. There are photos of Oz hanging over yachtclub bars all over
the East Coast. No challenger has ever beaten his ability to consume such an
amount in such a small time.

DP

[MacScotty]

Doug was right.

"Bobsprit" <bobs...@aol.com> wrote ...

[MacScotty]

Watch out, he's borrowed Boobies' dicktionary.

"Dick" <tugs on it @duh.net> wrote ...

[Donal]

"Rick" <tu...@dearthlink.net> wrote in message

news:3C88BA0B...@dearthlink.net...

If I tell my digital system to subtract 4 degrees (var 4W) so that my
display is "True" , would you call this an adjustment?

Regards

Donal
--

[Bobsprit]

I bow to those with fitter livers than I ;-)>>

Mickey Mantles dead rotted liver is in better shape than yours, addicted
scumbag.

RB

[JAXAshby]

>Oz's
>reputation as a drinker and womaniser is solid throughout the Aussie
>yachting world.

I believe the term is "boyeriser"

[JAXAshby]

>>"Some have better adjustment capabilities for variation ..."
>
>And which magnetic compasses have this variation adjustment feature?

LMAO!

>
>
>Rick
>
>
>
>
>
>

[JAXAshby]

yeah, that's why we're laughing.

>"Rick" <tu...@dearthlink.net> wrote in message

>news:3C880106...@dearthlink.net...

>> >"Some have better adjustment capabilities for variation ..."
>>
>> And which magnetic compasses have this variation adjustment feature?
>

>Gawd Ricky, you are really struggling to try to pick an argument here.
>
>What is wrong with you? You know, and I know, and everybody else knows
>*exactly* what Mooron meant.
>
>
>Lame....lame....lame!
>
>You obviously do know some stuff.... but you do yourself a great disservice
>by being so picky!
>
>If you stick to passing on *your* knowledge, then I will appreciate your
>input. If you really feel the need to engage in "Bob'nJax" style arguments,
>then you are wasting your talents. You are not as stupid as Jax, and you
>are not as good a Troll as Bob.
>
>
>Regards
>
>
>Donal
>--
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[JAXAshby]

>Although your vessel's onboard compass should have both Deviation and
>Variation adjustments

pardon me, but which compass is that you say has a "variation adjustment"?

[JAXAshby]

>Ahhh so adding/subtracting is not adjusting...............Interseting
>concept

what concept? That "variation" is adjustable?

[JAXAshby]

>I know all about adjusting a compass.
>I also know about adjusting my heading to allow for deviation by
>adding/subtracting said deviation.

apparantly not.

[JAXAshby]

>If I tell my digital system to subtract 4 degrees (var 4W) so that my
>display is "True" , would you call this an adjustment?
>

you're kidding, right? You don't know the difference?

[JAXAshby]

Okay, how do you adjust *that* handheld for "variation" you say?

>Yeah... I kinda screwed up on the detail there... I was thinking compasses
>in general when I stepped into that hole.... some Hand Compasses have finer
>capabilities with a screw for adjustment on the outer bezel... this of
>course would not be found on a binnacle compass.
>I'm not sure if this is a feature available on Fluxgate compasses... but I
>believe that they manufacture fluxgate models that might fit into a binnacle
>mount.
>--
>Capt. Mooron ©

[JAXAshby]

>He's goading you on the use of the term 'variation' not on whether compasses
>can
>be adjusted for deviation. See the worm for what he really is Mooron.

It's not hardly a trivial mistake.

>
>Cheers MC

[JAXAshby]

>Every sensible person here knew exactly what Mooron meant!

yes, he was drunk. And he really didn't know what "variation" is.

[Jeff Morris]

Mickey got a new liver just before he died - just could just dig it up!

-jeff
"The sport that requires the least effort" Albert Einstein on Sailing

"Oz1" <ozsa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:soei8uckukg5l71kr...@4ax.com...

> Heh heh, you think?
>
>
>
> Ooops, that's right, YOU DON'T!
>
> Bwaaahahaaa!
>
>
> Oz1...of the 3 twins

[Donal]

"JAXAshby" <jaxa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020308142517...@mb-cu.aol.com...

> yeah, that's why we're laughing.

Keep laughing, dimwit. Hopefully, you will never realise why we are
laughing.

Mensa????

Regards

Donal
--

[d parker]

The Purpose... That's No1

Everything else hopefully fits the jigsaw after that.

To explain, it is no good buying a maxi if the nearest water for 500 miles
is only a lake. Similarly when planning the circumnavigation you aren't
going to consider a laser.

DP

"Bobsprit" <bobs...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20020307095947...@mb-fo.aol.com...
> Here's another compass question.....
>
> Can someone with experience explain how a 100 dollar Rule binnacle compass
> would be "outperformed" by a 300 dollar model?
>
> Thanks,
>
> RB

[Donal]

"Rick" <tu...@dearthlink.net> wrote in message

news:3C882082...@dearthlink.net...

> >"You know, and I know, and everybody else knows
> >*exactly* what Mooron meant."
>

>It really does appear that the self
> described "captain" may not know the difference and I am not so generous
> as to give a "captain" a pass on such an egregious failing. Particularly
> given his history on this forum.

So, your only agenda is to prove Mooron wrong?

What makes you think that anybody, other than Bob'nJax, gives a sh*t whether
you give Mooron a pass or not?

We judge him on his written words - not on your snide comments. You could
easily have won your "piston" argument if you showed a little respect for
your audience. While you are obviously quite clever, you lack the social
skills to get on with your fellow human beings.

Regards

Donal
--

[Rick]

>"If I tell my digital system to subtract 4 degrees (var 4W) so that my
>display is "True" , would you call this an adjustment?"

No, unless it is displaying the output of a gyro I would call it another
demonstration of bad judgment and poor training.

Rick

[JAXAshby]

dognut tells us he doesn't care to know the reality, only that he wants to
argue.

Gee, he thinks he's telling us something new?

[Donal]

"Rick" <tu...@dearthlink.net> wrote in message

news:3C898CC4...@dearthlink.net...

> >"If I tell my digital system to subtract 4 degrees (var 4W) so that my
> >display is "True" , would you call this an adjustment?"
>
> No, unless it is displaying the output of a gyro

What a strange answer! Why would you consider it an adjustment *only* if a
gyro were involved?

Let's say that I have both a fluxgate and a gyro on board, and both are
indicating magnetic headings. If I change the fluxgate's display to show
the true heading, the you are claiming that I *haven't* made an adjustment.
Then I push similiar buttons, for a similiar result, on the gyro's display,
and you say that I *have* made an adjustment.???????

Please forgive my stupidity, but could you explain?

> I would call it another
> demonstration of bad judgment and poor training.

I really cannot figure out why you would have written that! I assume that
it is a lame attempt to divert the discussion away from your strange
interpretation of the word "adjustment".

Regards

Donal
--

[JAXAshby]

dognuts? Really? You have a gyro onboard? Incredible! You drive it with a
venturi tube?

[Rick]

>"What a strange answer! Why would you consider it an adjustment
>*only* if a gyro were involved?"

Probably a waste of time but it's a slow morning and "click and clack"
are on the radio.

A magnetic compass is "adjusted" to correct for external influences
other than variation. The object of compass adjustment is to display the
most accurate magnetic heading possible at all headings. Errors which
cannot be removed through the process of adjustment are displayed on the
correction card as "deviation."

If you introduce a 4 degree change based on variation in the display of
a magnetic compass reading you will have introduced an additional 4
degree error. The display no longer reads magnetic heading. If you only
travel along the 4 degree isogonal and the compass was adjusted so that
that heading and its reciprocal exhibited 0 degrees deviation on that
heading (the correction card might be wild) then all would be fine until
the vessel strayed off course. Then the errors would rapidly accumulate
and after a few degrees of longitude displacement you would have no
reliable measure of heading available unless you are skilled in the use
of a sextant to remove all your operator induced errors.

Navigators do not "adjust" compasses as part of piloting or plotting.
Compass adjusters do when installing a new compass or when errors become
apparent. You may not like the language but it has been part of the
maritime industry for centuries whether it is yachting or commercial. If
you have a problem with nautical terminology and practice then publish a
new nautical dictionary and lobby the maritime academies to change their
curricula accordingly.

>"Then I push similiar buttons, for a similiar result, on the
>gyro's display, and you say that I *have* made an adjustment."

You will have set the display to show whatever heading you choose, it
may or may not be related to anything on Earth. You have adjusted the
display but you have not adjusted the gyro. The only adjustment I have
ever made to a gyro is an initial setting of the latitude when
restarting one in a different latitude than when it was secured. I am
sure gyro technicians can make many other adjustments but we mere
boaters should not.

New fluxgate compasses incorporate features to correct for the ship's
magnetic signature and local magnetic disturbances to display a very
accurate magnetic heading but it is still a magnetic heading. If you
want a display of true heading then you want a north seeking gyro.

Rick

[SkitchNYC]

>So, your only agenda is to prove Mooron wrong?

It is apparently so, Donal. I find it even more surprising and demonstrative
of his lack of generosity because Mooron gave him a complete pass on his idea
that a hand bearing compass had compensating magnets. He is still holding a
grudge against Mooron for the spanking he took in the diesel thread. His
problem is that he came in here like a big blowhard and took the side of the
fools.

[The_navigator©]

OK I will tell you. I have never seen a hand bearing compass with
compensating MAGNETS in it. If you think about it you will see why it makes
no sense to have such. The hand bearing compass is moved around and so any
deviation would be variable and not compensable by magnetic adjustment
bars. Similarly hand bearing compasses are not viable on metal ships whose
bearing compasses are fixed (with compensation). However there is sometimes
a compensation for 'variation' (I use this term loosely as it applies to
the earth's magnetic field) built into in hand bearing compasses. Can you
think what it is?

Cheers MC
.

Rick wrote:

> >"Why would a hand bearing compass have compensation magnets? What are
> >compass compensation magnets for? Why then does talk of compensation
> >magnets in a hand bearing compass make no sense at all?"
>
> Please read the following that was in the post you refer to:
>
> >"(if you mean one of those things with a hand grip and a dome) so that
> >is really a guess - do those things even have compensating magnets?
>
> That statement and the question included make it pretty clear that I am
> not sure if those things have compensation magnets in them ... they may
> or may not. The adjustment Mooron referred to may be the hand compass
> method of compensation as I stated.
>
> >"What are compass compensation magnets for?"
>
> Is that a serious question or are you just being contentious? I will
> assume it is rhetorical since you sign yourself as "navigator".
>
> Rick

[The_navigator©]

It is after a 'few' but you have to overlook the obvious mistakes to see deeper.

Cheers MC

[The_navigator©]

The question is can he be reformed from his stinkpotter ways?

Cheers MC

[claude]

"Capt.Mooron" <moo...@overproof.ca> wrote in
news:_OOh8.78$GJ3....@sapphire.mtt.net:

> Robert... accuracy is a rather moot point... they all point North.
> Some have better adjustment capabilities for variation/deviation or

Saaay. How do you adjust your compass for variation? Make little scratch
marks on the glass?

claude

[Rick]

Are you just "treading water" or are you so far behind that all your
power of thought is hung up on a self-answered post of several days ago
... geesh and you trash Jax for posting stupid stuff.

Just to be kind since you are obviously struggling, here is the part of
the original post, the part that I reposted to you and the same thing
that you quoted in the post to which I am replying now, so pay attention
- this is the 4th time you will have read it or had it read to you:

>>>"(if you mean one of those things with a hand grip and a dome) so that
>>>is really a guess - do those things even have compensating magnets?

Meaning that I question if they do. Most do not, some have lighting so
there must be some way to compensate the things for the ferrous metals
in the battery. If none do or ever did so what?

Do you still have a problem with that? If so there is nothing else I can
do to help you understand what was written and what it means.

The construction of hand bearing compasses was far from the point of the
post. That may be the only part to which you are capable of responding
but I suggest you just leave it at that as you are really in over your
head (again) and watching you drown like this is embarrassing.

Rick

[claude]

skit...@aol.com (SkitchNYC) wrote in
news:20020309163333...@mb-fh.aol.com:

>His problem is that he came in here
> like a big blowhard and took the side of the fools.
>

Leave me out of this. I am both a deviant and a variant and inconsolable
when picked on.

claude

[The_navigator©]

What a strange response. You ask I question ('a guess - do those things even
have compensating magnets?'), I answer it accurately and then you 'have a
go'! What is your problem? I note that you have failed to identify what
compensation there is inside a HBC. You continue to look for fights but why?

Cheers MC

[JAXAshby]

>However there is sometimes
>a compensation for 'variation' (I use this term loosely as it applies to
>the earth's magnetic field) built into in hand bearing compasses. Can you
>think what it is?
>
>Cheers MC

markie wants to tell us it's the Mark 1 eyeball.

go ahead, markie. Tell us.

[The_navigator©]

No it's a compensation for the earths magnetic field. Again I ask: What is it.
To the corner for you Jackass.

Cheers MC

(PS I see you are still longing for me)

[Rick]

>"What a strange response."

Indeed.

>"I note that you have failed to identify what
>compensation there is inside a HBC."

????? Call for a relief Nav, you've lost it. Your vessel is not under
command.

Rick

[The_navigator©]

So you admit you don't know?

Cheers MC

[Rick]

>However there is sometimes
>a compensation for 'variation'

He thinks that the facility some of those hand bearing compasses have
for correcting for variation is "compensation" ... he's not much of a
"navigator" and obviously lacks training and has little experience in
using nautical terminology so it's probably unfair to pick on him for
failing so badly in nautical areas.

We have to give him credit for attempting to defend the twins though, it
was a valiant but futile effort on his part. He suffers the same failing
as the twins he tried so hard to impress - he carries a stick to a
gunfight. He makes a good little brother though, the twin's "special"
friend.

Rick

[The_navigator©]

You can't bring yourself to admit that you don't know something can you?
Tell you what, you ask nicely and I'll reveal something that you had no idea
existed.

Cheers MC

[Rick]

OK, Nav, please, pretty please, I will be nice. Please tell me.

Rick

[The_navigator©]

Dip compensation. On many HBC's the card is balanced for level by the
manufacturer (say in the Northern Hemisphere). This means that dip
compensation has been built in. Bring that compass to the Southern
Hemisphere and the card gets a huge tilt that may even stop it rotating
properly when the HBC is level. Now dip is a vertical component of
variation so that is why I referred to loosely as 'variation ...'

What do you say to that?

Cheers MC

[Rick]

>"What do you say to that?"

Uh, that is pretty close to saying that a compass has a card ... dip
magnets are a standard item of compass manufacturing as are cards with
numbers printed on them and letters that say N, E, S, and W, lubber
lines and such. Nice job though and like I said earlier, I will be nice
since you are trying.

Oh, and BTW, you can buy a compass with the dip set up for N or S
hemisphere if you ask nicely. The effect on little hand bearing
compasses would be so slight that it can't matter much, the boat's roll
and the stumbling of the "dip" holding it will induce more tilt than the
Earth in any but the polar regions and bearing changes when taking cross
bearings are done so rapidly that dip errors in turns are irrelevant.
Dare I say "I wonder" if most cheap little hand bearing compasses are
even compensated for dip?

Rick

[d parker]

"The_navigator©" <farr...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:3C8BECF7...@excite.com...

> Dip compensation. On many HBC's the card is balanced for level by the
> manufacturer (say in the Northern Hemisphere). This means that dip
> compensation has been built in. Bring that compass to the Southern
> Hemisphere and the card gets a huge tilt that may even stop it rotating
> properly when the HBC is level. Now dip is a vertical component of
> variation so that is why I referred to loosely as 'variation ...'
>
> What do you say to that?

The packaging on better HBC's has this information on the outside too.....

DP

[Mark Cannell]

I suggest it's a bigger problem than you think. I've seen compasses that
simply don't work down here (Roaring forties). Silva has no less than 5
different hand compasses for different dip zones. The also have one where
the card is adjustable in the vertical plane for dip (I think). For world
cruising the HBC needs a special construction with a cylindrical magnet and
a large deep counterbalance to stop it tilting. Even so you could not use
this compass below 60S (I suspect). The problem with the deep counter
balance idea is 1) that the compass is actually harder to read is you are
swaying (IMO) and 2) that it shows bad errors during turns. The latest
electronic (Hall effect) HBC's do not have these problems I believe and
would be a way to go if you remember to keep spare batteries and keep them
dry (always).

Now feel free to tell me you are astounded.

Cheers MC

[The_navigator©]

I suggest it's a bigger problem than you think. I've seen compasses that
simply don't work down here (Roaring forties). Silva has no less than 5
different hand compasses for different dip zones. The also have one where
the card is adjustable in the vertical plane for dip (I think). For world
cruising the HBC needs a special construction with a cylindrical magnet and
a large deep counterbalance to stop it tilting. Even so you could not use
this compass below 60S (I suspect). The problem with the deep counter
balance idea is 1) that the compass is actually harder to read is you are
swaying (IMO) and 2) that it shows bad errors during turns. The latest
electronic (Hall effect) HBC's do not have these problems I believe and
would be a way to go if you remember to keep spare batteries and keep them
dry (always).

Now feel free to tell me you are astounded.

Cheers MC

[The_navigator©]

Don't tell me you actually read packaging?

Cheers MC

d parker wrote:

> "The_navigatorŠ" <farr...@excite.com> wrote in message

[The_navigator©]

Just a little point: Compass cards don't have lubber lines. Just thought I'd
help you there before you get slammed (again).

Cheers MC

[Jeff Morris]

Mark,
I may have missed something along the way - this started when RB asked if
its worth spending extra for the more expensive binnacle compass.
Personally, I've never researched this much but assumed that the large sizes
were more stable and readable, and more money implied higher quality. But
the consensus seemed to be "they're all the same buy - the cheapest." So
what was your opinion on this?

-jeff
"The sport that requires the least effort" Albert Einstein on Sailing

"The_navigator©" <farr...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:3C8BF773...@excite.com...