America's Cup 32nd
Bryan
I'm watching the Luis Vitton Cup. Two boats will go to the LV finals and
the winner will go against Desafio (or is it Alingi?) in the America's Cup.
Do I have this right? You can see I have some confusion on this subject!
Does the America's Cup have more than two boats racing or is it just a two
boat race: defender vs winner of the LV?
Bottom line: with BMW Oracle out of the LV, are they also out of the
America's Cup and on their way home to San Francisco?
Capt. JG
news:LX_4i.7549$H_....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...
Get the info here... http://www.americascup.org/en/
--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com
Wilbur Hubbard
"Bryan" <brya...@pac.bell.net> wrote in message
news:LX_4i.7549$H_....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...
You got it wrong. The defender is Alinghi. They possess the Americas
Cup. The challenger is the winner of the final in the Louis Vuitton
challenge. BMW Oracle is out because they lost in the semi-final 1-5.
They lost this badly because they were foolish enough to put has-been
Kiwis as skipper and at the helm. This proves Larry Ellison (the money
man) needs to stick to computers. Where's Ted Turner when we need him?
Wilbur Hubbard
Bob Crantz
for pictures!
Glory!
BC
Wilbur Hubbard
"Bob Crantz" <lava...@brimstone.org> wrote in message
news:f326ko$i75$1...@aioe.org...
Lucky stiff!
Wilbur Hubbard
Bart
wrote:
> "Bryan" <bryan....@pac.bell.net> wrote in message
Right about that. We should have fielded out own skipper. In
fact the entire crew should have been Americans.
How about Buddy Melges, Paul Cayard, or Dennis Conner?
Not that Chris Dickson is that bad.
Each would have done a better job.
Bart
wrote:
Right about that. We should have fielded out own skipper. In
katy
>
>
> Right about that. We should have fielded out own skipper. In
> fact the entire crew should have been Americans.
>
> How about Buddy Melges, Paul Cayard, or Dennis Conner?
>
> Not that Chris Dickson is that bad.
> Each would have done a better job.
>
I don't get it, either...why we would import sailors when we have
traditionally had some of the best is beyond me...I can understand why
D. Conners might shy away from it..maybe he feels his reputation
wouldn't survive another loss...I except for money, why would a
non-American give a rat's patoot whether they won the Cup back for us or
not? WOuld seem obbious that they might have another agenda...
Capt. JG
news:5bjsofF...@mid.individual.net...
It's all about big money at this point. That and ego (Ellison's).
Bart
> "katy" <katysa...@netscape.com> wrote in message
Larry Ellison is a hero to me. I'd love to see the Cup in San
Francisco.
It is the best venue in the world. People could watch from shore.
It would be the best thing to happen to the Cup.
On the other hand, as a former member of the St Francis YC,
next door to the GGYC, I thought the GGYC members were a
bunch of pussies. Every time I short tacked up the marina
they would yell at me for coming to close to their boats. It
just confirmed to me they were not very good sailors.
Maxprop
"Capt. JG" <jg...@sailnow.invalid> wrote in message
news:1359jdt...@corp.supernews.com...
You could have stopped with "big money." Not that Ellison's ego isn't out
of control.
Max
dougk...@yahoo.com
> A few questions about format.
>
> I'm watching the Luis Vitton Cup. Two boats will go to the LV finals and
> the winner will go against Desafio (or is it Alingi?) in the America's Cup.
> Do I have this right? You can see I have some confusion on this subject!
>
I can see why you might think Defasio is the defender, since it is
being held in Spain, but Alinghi (Swiss) are the current holders of
the America's Cup. They won it from New Zealand.
> Does the America's Cup have more than two boats racing or is it just a two
> boat race: defender vs winner of the LV?
>
The latter.
There are more than two teams competeing but they race against each
other two at a time, in a series of eliminations. It is somewhat like
a tennis tournament in that regard.
> Bottom line: with BMW Oracle out of the LV, are they also out of the
> America's Cup and on their way home to San Francisco?
Yes. They screwed up in design and in management. Too bad, there are a
whole bunch of good sailors on the team (including Chris Dickson) and
to me it doesn't look like the the boat is hopelessly slow. Looks more
like a case of poor priorities (which could be largely Dickson's
fault, or Ellison's).
Fresh Breezes- Doug King
Martin Baxter
>
>
> Yes. They screwed up in design and in management. Too bad, there are a
> whole bunch of good sailors on the team (including Chris Dickson) and
> to me it doesn't look like the the boat is hopelessly slow. Looks more
> like a case of poor priorities (which could be largely Dickson's
Well you've got to admit that Dickson screwed up in the start when he
collected not one but two penalties. both stupid; one a straight forward
starboard-port give-way/stand-on situation and then he got pissed and
slammed his helm over so as to drive his stern into the Italians.
Cheers
Marty
Bart
> Yes. They screwed up in design and in management. Too bad, there are a
> whole bunch of good sailors on the team (including Chris Dickson) and
> to me it doesn't look like the the boat is hopelessly slow. Looks more
> like a case of poor priorities (which could be largely Dickson's
> fault, or Ellison's).
>
> Fresh Breezes- Doug King
>From what I've read about Dickson personality, he is very driven
and seems to piss off his crew enough that some quit.
Would you race with a skipper that yelled? I'm not saying he
does, just that he is not a winner--he has lost every time
he competed for the cup, and there could be a reason for
this--perhaps driving too hard.
Dickson has the skills, but it seems not the right
personality to lead a team of really good sailors. It is
rare that team members on such a high profile event
leave--this is a sign of a very serious problem. Alarm
bells should have gone off in Larry Elison's head.
I just navigated in a race with a skipper that never once
raised his voice. If we spent more time together I think
the crew would do very well together. It is an amazing
thing to see a very well led team.
I spend a lot of time teaching sailing part-time and I've
taught all sorts of people. There is no question in my mind
that empowering people to take responsibility improves their
performance. Crew do not need to be thinking about a
skipper snapping at them. Feedback should be done
in a way that maximizes it's acceptance and without any
loss in self-esteem. A good skipper should have a
relatively minor role in a race because his crew should
be trained to function smoothly and efficiently before the
race starts. His biggest role is prior to the race. During
the race, the skippers eyes should be "out of the boat"
thinking about tactics, and less so "in the boat".
The other half of the equation is Larry Elison himself. As I
said earlier he is a hero to me. Yet, I have to wonder how he
could have failed to get into the LV Cup with his resources.
While it is easy to criticize Chris Dickson, I feel Larry
let us down by not picking from among the top American
sailors, each of whom has more motivation to win the AC
for America, that a Kiwi looking for another notch in his
resume, which will reflect honor on his country not ours.
If I had that kind of money, I'd chose Dennis Connor,
a proven winner, to run the boat. He has the experience,
and the love and passion to win for America. Chris Dickson
has a passion to win, but not for the US.
Larry has a lot of talented guys around him, I feel that if
they were all American's, he could have won the Cup and
brought it to San Francisco where it would be very easy
to hold for a long time, and provide a venue where spectators
could watch from the surrounding shores.
It would be even more exciting if the event was staged
in the bay in August! LV in early summer, followed by
wicked windy weather in August. Lets change the rules
on the wind parameters and watch stuff break!