Interesting Sail Today
Bart Senior
a fast 27 mile round trip from Stratford to Port Jefferson.
At the last minute one fellow substituted his wife and her sister
and begged off to study for a course he's working on. So I had
two ladies along with one of my favorite sailing buddies Fred.
I warned the ladies to pee now before we left the dock, after
which we'd only have the bucket, and I talked about how we'd
use the back of the boat and everyone could look the other way.
With five people, dropping HOOT in the water has never gone
faster. George headed home and we were off. The new battens
looked and worked great. The main looked good even if it was
a shrunken dwarf of a sail.
While sailing out, I pointed out to the two ladies, both natives of
Poland, once again that if they needed to pee, to use the bucket.
We took a bit of water over the bow, sailing close hauled down
the channel. My friend Fred was amazed at how high the Etchells
can point. I said wait a second, sheeted the jib in tighter and told
him to try again. He was more than amazed, we cracked off again
and laid it right out the channel like a rocket. Any other boat
would have had to take a couple of hitches. We did it in one tack
with room to spare if we needed to head up. If you haven't sailed
an Etchells, you don't know how high a boat can point.
The ladies had gotten their bottoms wet, and so did I, from maybe
a dozen or so waves that broke over the bow. After clearing the
harbor we cracked off a bit more, and the chop flattened out and
no more water came in the boat, except for the occasional wake
induced wave.
I didn't bring my GPS, but I'd bet we averaged 6 knots blasting
across the Sound to Port Jeff.
I'm not one to hold my water. I used the bucket to pee once
on the way across, when we were heeled sharply. Later on the way
back, when the wind died I peed off the back.
Halfway across I noticed one of the ladies had a very wet bottom
after everyone else's bottom had dried off. The poor gal was too
embarrassed to use the bucket and pee'd in her pants. She never
complained, so Fred and I pretended not to notice.
It was her first time sailing. Maybe next time, she think about using
the bucket rather than have a wet butt for 6 hours.
After a quick spin around the Port Jeff harbor, pointing out the hurricane
hole and other feature of this fabulous harbor, to my friend Fred, we
headed out. I like to learn about new harbors. It's always nice to have
local knowledge of choice harbors.
Fred is the fellow with the Valiant 37, I've talked about in the past. He
like to blast along the south side of the Island and head for Cape Cod, or
Block Island. When you don't have time to linger, perhaps you shoot
for longer distance runs. Nevertheless, I think LIS is one of the best
cruising grounds in New England., if you know where to go.
On the way back toward the Middle Ground (Stratford Shoal), we
had some company.
Question: What is faster a Mac 26 with a 30 HP outboard or an Etchells
close reaching in 10-12 knots of breeze?
It was neck and neck for a long while. It's not a sailboat, it's a boat
with
sails. The Mac, turned back briefly to look at my stern. I guess he wanted
to know what kind of sailboat could keep up with his POS under power.
His boat rolled in the waves on his round bilge. I wondered what this guy's
wife was thinking about that miserable ride. What was he thinking, not
putting up at least a steadying sail.
After a while he edged away, heading off to windward. I bet he wished he
had the 50 HP outboard. I'd say he barely had us beat in those conditions.
I don't know he ran the motor flat out or not. Usually boats under power
get pissed and run flat out when I blast by under sail alone.
Shortly after clearing Middle Ground the wind died to nothing for about
90 minutes. We could barely make way, heading up a bit--at right angles
to our course.
Later the wind shifted 180 degrees and even though it was still very
light, I tried to set my new spinnaker.
Disaster! This was not an Etchells spinnaker my friend Bill had given me!
My gorgeous new spinnaker was four feet too long on the hoist. Maybe I
can have it recut. I pulled it down and put up my trusty Red and White
Reacher. There was not quite enough wind to fill it, so with 2 miles to go,
I
started paddling until the wind filled in a tiny bit, and veered to a beam
reach.
I lowered the pole, set it just off the forestay and sheeted it in. It pull
us along
ok for a while and then the wind went farther forward. We were making
less than a knot. I dropped the pole nearly to the deck and this flat cut
reaching spinnaker, actually worked like a genoa to pull us along upwind in
these light conditions. It was tight enough across the foot, to crease in a
shelf.
So the sail looked and acted like a drifter.
I noticed the spinnaker was backwinding the main, and Fred suggested hauling
up on the traveler. With this unlikely combination, a tighter reacher, and
an over
trimmed main we had nice looking slot, got some flow across all this, and
started
moving north again.
By the time we got back to river the wind had picked up making trim
adjustments difficult, and after another 1/4 mile I decided to strike the
spinnaker.
At this point the jib would fly and we cruised right back to the dock.
That was the first time I used a spinnaker, albeit a flat cut reacher, to
sail
upwind. I wonder if the Etchells class rules allow for something like this?
Probably not. I'll have to check. For the light wind days on Long Island
Sound
a sail like this could be a rule beater--maybe in PHRF.
Bart
Bart Senior
I forgot to mention. I took my vang off--it has a snap shackle
at each end and used it for a preventer. It worked well with
the wind was light and waves rocking the boat. The sail would
still slap but he boom didn't bang around.
I snapped it to one of the shackles I leave on the chain plate
for making off the spinnaker halyard when not in use.
Scout
[snip]
> My friend Fred was amazed at how high the Etchells
> can point. I said wait a second, sheeted the jib in tighter and told
> him to try again. He was more than amazed, we cracked off again
> and laid it right out the channel like a rocket. Any other boat
> would have had to take a couple of hitches. We did it in one tack
> with room to spare if we needed to head up. If you haven't sailed
> an Etchells, you don't know how high a boat can point.
I haven't. How high would you say she can point?
> I didn't bring my GPS, but I'd bet we averaged 6 knots blasting
> across the Sound to Port Jeff.
I need 15-20 mph breezes to do that in my Starwind.
> I'm not one to hold my water. I used the bucket to pee once
> on the way across, when we were heeled sharply. Later on the way
> back, when the wind died I peed off the back.
> Halfway across I noticed one of the ladies had a very wet bottom
> after everyone else's bottom had dried off. The poor gal was too
> embarrassed to use the bucket and pee'd in her pants. She never
> complained, so Fred and I pretended not to notice.
That's a lot of peeing going on. Maybe her pants weren't designed to dry
quickly?
> It was her first time sailing. Maybe next time, she think about using
> the bucket rather than have a wet butt for 6 hours.
Depends.
> Question: What is faster a Mac 26 with a 30 HP outboard or an Etchells
> close reaching in 10-12 knots of breeze?
The Mac couldn't even manage <6 knots with a 30 HP ob and a 12 knot
headwind? My Starwind can do that with a 5 horses!
> It was neck and neck for a long while. It's not a sailboat, it's a boat
> with
> sails. The Mac, turned back briefly to look at my stern. I guess he
wanted
> to know what kind of sailboat could keep up with his POS under power.
> His boat rolled in the waves on his round bilge. I wondered what this
guy's
> wife was thinking about that miserable ride.
I'll bet she likes peeing in comfort though! ; )
> After a while he edged away, heading off to windward. I bet he wished he
> had the 50 HP outboard.
more HP would be great in the obvious circumstances, as long as sailing
performance isn't sacrificed. In spite of the beating the Macs take here,
I'd be willing to be most of the Mac owners don't know enough about sailing
to be unhappy with them. Unless they come here, of course.
> Shortly after clearing Middle Ground the wind died to nothing for about
> 90 minutes. We could barely make way, heading up a bit--at right angles
> to our course.
> Later the wind shifted 180 degrees and even though it was still very
> light, I tried to set my new spinnaker.
All hail Odin!
Scout
>
Bobsprit
RB
Edgar
Bart Senior <bse...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:u2S0d.27374$bE1.14...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net..
(snip).
> I warned the ladies to pee now before we left the dock, after
> which we'd only have the bucket, and I talked about how we'd
> use the back of the boat and everyone could look the other way.
> While sailing out, I pointed out to the two ladies, both natives of
> Poland, once again that if they needed to pee, to use the bucket.
> across the Sound to Port Jeff.
>
> I'm not one to hold my water. I used the bucket to pee once
> on the way across, when we were heeled sharply. Later on the way
> back, when the wind died I peed off the back.
>
> Halfway across I noticed one of the ladies had a very wet bottom
> after everyone else's bottom had dried off. The poor gal was too
> embarrassed to use the bucket and pee'd in her pants. She never
> complained, so Fred and I pretended not to notice.
>
> It was her first time sailing. Maybe next time, she think about using
> the bucket rather than have a wet butt for 6 hours.
Hey Bart! Don't worry-she will never come sailing with you again.
The need to pee fills one's entire thoughts so that whatever else is going
on becomes of secondary importance and she must have been really miserable
to be forced to pee her pants. It is clear from your post that she had
figured out that using the bucket was going to be somewhat embarassing
anyway but doubly difficult when the boat is 'blasting' across the bay
probably at a considerable angle of heel. I think you should have made it
clear to your crew that if anyone wanted to use the bucket you would ease
sheets or bear away to bring the boat level while they performed. Instead,
you were more concerned with seeing off a Mac with a 30hp outboard!
You are going to have problems getting lady crews in future I think.
Regards
Edgar
Jeff Morris
"Bart Senior" <bse...@optonline.net> wrote
> Nevertheless, I think LIS is one of the best
> cruising grounds in New England., if you know where to go.
Its right up there with Narrangansett Bay, Buzzard's Bay, Vineyard Sound, Cape
Cod, Boston Harbor, Salem Bay and Cape Ann. Though its not as nice as the Maine
Coast. It is, however, much nicer than the New Hampshire coast, except maybe
Portsmouth.
katysails
another "non-sailor"....
"Edgar" <edgar...@c2i.net> wrote in message
news:jQV0d.1955$8c.1...@juliett.dax.net...
Maxprop
"Bart Senior" <bse...@optonline.net> wrote in message
> What was he thinking, not
> putting up at least a steadying sail.
One who purchases a Mac 26 is probably not overly given to cerebral
processes. Nor would he have a clue as to matters nautical.
Max
Maxprop
"Scout" <scout...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > It was her first time sailing. Maybe next time, she think about using
> > the bucket rather than have a wet butt for 6 hours.
>
> Depends.
LOL! Good once, Scout.
Max
Thom Stewart
Nice Report! Brings back memories of long ago. The Port Jeff hotel use
to make a frozen daiquiri that was better than great.
With the free footed main, you should be able to rig a "Kicking Strap"
ala Jolly O, with a slippery hitch. In light air it is a lot faster that
moving the Vang but that is what those clips are for. Isn't amassing how
tame a boat can feel with the Boom under control?
In my "Comet" days on LIS, I used a coffee can rather than a bucket.
Females seem to be more comfortable with the can than a bucket.
Bart, I had a house in Northville on the Island. I was sure it was the
best sailing ground anywhere. That was before I found Puget Sound
Ole Thom
Bart Senior
HOOT came with a wire and sheave arrangement for the vang.
When I recored the coaming, I didn't want to put that back on,
so I made up a new one with two fiddle blocks. I like having
shackles on both ends. That makes is useful for other purposes.
Also, I like to remove it to get it out of the weather when I'm
not using it.
"Thom Stewart" <tas...@webtv.net> wrote
Scott Vernon
>
> It is clear from your post that she had
> figured out that using the bucket was going to be somewhat
embarassing
> anyway but doubly difficult when the boat is 'blasting' across the
bay
> probably at a considerable angle of heel.
plus Bart holding his digital camera at the ready prolly didn't help
any.
SV
Bart Senior
"Scout" <scout...@hotmail.com> wrote
> "Bart Senior" <bse...@optonline.net> wrote
> [snip]
> > My friend Fred was amazed at how high the Etchells
> > can point.
>
> I haven't. How high would you say she can point?
It will sail upwind under bare poles.
> > I didn't bring my GPS, but I'd bet we averaged 6 knots blasting
> > across the Sound to Port Jeff.
>
> I need 15-20 mph breezes to do that in my Starwind.
> The Mac couldn't even manage <6 knots with a 30 HP ob and a 12 knot
> headwind? My Starwind can do that with a 5 horses!
He seemed to have trouble steering his course was all over the place.
You need good vision in the middle of the Sound. The landmarks are
hard to see. Lots of people have trouble holding a steady course.
Maybe the engine was not as big as I thought. It was a Honda outboard.
I didn't get a close look. They are curvy shaped and I'm not the best
judge of sizing on Honda's. I could easily have over estimated, given
that they put 50 hp engines on those boats. Also a four stroke would
be bigger than a two stroke, so if it was a four stroke.
Check this out.
http://www.honda-marine.com/bf9.htm
Maybe it was a 9.9?
Bobsprit
Yeah, it "prolly" didn't.
Scotty Potti strikes again.
RB
Jonathan Ganz
you have to go forward a bit to release it and attach it to the foot of
the mast when we need to gybe. Then, if we're going to use it on the
other side, we have to send someone up there again to reset it. I don't
like keeping anyone up there during a gybe in anything other than light
air, which means a lot of going back and forth, but it's still better than
dealing with yet another set of long lines on the deck.
--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com
"Bart Senior" <bse...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:V6S0d.27375$bE1.14...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
Bart Senior
She was a nice girl. Somewhat shy.
Fred and I asked the ladies if they wanted to head back
after passing Middle Ground, and no one said anything!
"katysails" <katy...@worldnet.att.net> wrote
John Cairns
> That was the first time I used a spinnaker, albeit a flat cut reacher, to
> sail
> upwind. I wonder if the Etchells class rules allow for something like
this?
> Probably not. I'll have to check. For the light wind days on Long Island
> Sound
> a sail like this could be a rule beater--maybe in PHRF.
>
> Bart
somewhere. I wouldn't be surprised if that boat is a giant killer in light
air. Wonder what it's rating is?
John Cairns
katysails
"Thom Stewart" <tas...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:14328-41...@storefull-3253.bay.webtv.net...
katysails
gizmo.....http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay
?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=35264
Scott Vernon
when we bought it. I used it as a funnel to fill the alcohol stove .
Scotty
"katysails" <katy...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:TJ51d.355221$OB3.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Horvath
>
>IIRC, you can use a spinnaker to sail upwind but must not tack with
>it.
What do you know? I always use a spinnaker upwind, and also two
bloopers. One on each side.
Hor...@Horvath.net
Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!
Lady Pilot
LP :-)
"katysails" <katy...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> We've been chiding him on these points all year....he has probably created
> another "non-sailor"....
> "Edgar" wrote :>>
Lady Pilot
No doubt, Scott! LOL
LP
Nav
Horvath wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:27:16 +1000, OzOne <> wrote this crap:
>
>
>>IIRC, you can use a spinnaker to sail upwind but must not tack with
>>it.
>
>
> What do you know? I always use a spinnaker upwind, and also two
> bloopers. One on each side.
>
Of course you do, you win flags too.
Cheers
Jonathan Ganz
--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com
"Nav" <iga...@dr.sailing.net> wrote in message
news:41450b79$1...@news.auckland.ac.nz...
Bart Senior
Where you go for a swim and use that as an opportunity to
urinate.
"Lady Pilot" <some...@somewhere.abc> wrote
Bart Senior
speed. Last year I passed a sailboat with it's main up and running
it's outboard. After a bit of pointing by their crew, I heard the throttle
open up and they still couldn't keep up.
I also enjoy sailing circles around other sailboats. When I'm feeling
particularly mean, I do it twice to rub it in. : )
Bart
"John Cairns" <jgcairn...@sbcglobal.net> wrote
>
> "Bart Senior" <bse...@optonline.net> wrote
> > That was the first time I used a spinnaker, albeit a flat cut reacher,
Bart Senior
Obviously racing one would be close-hauled. What I was doing
was just above a beam reach--upwind, maybe 20-30 degrees
above a beam reach--nowhere near close-hauled.
<OzOne> wrote
> On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 23:17:33 GMT, "John Cairns"
> <jgcairn...@sbcglobal.net> scribbled thusly:
>
> >
> >"Bart Senior" <bse...@optonline.net> wrote in message
> >> That was the first time I used a spinnaker, albeit a flat cut reacher,
to
> >> sail
> >> upwind. I wonder if the Etchells class rules allow for something like
> >this?
> IIRC, you can use a spinnaker to sail upwind but must not tack with
> it.
> On an Etchells you'd be blown away with this tactic. VMG to windward
> under main and jib is just too good.
>
>>
> 126, so yeah, they go OK
> http://www.sailors.com/sfbay/racing/phrf-sf.html
>
Lady Pilot
"Bart Senior" wrote:
>I hope not.
>
> She was a nice girl. Somewhat shy.
But you still managed to make her piss her pants...
> Fred and I asked the ladies if they wanted to head back
> after passing Middle Ground, and no one said anything!
Those Polish women aren't used to American men, I would bet on it!
LP (take Katy's advice, really!)
Lady Pilot
> Another option is the notorious "Prop Check"
>
> Where you go for a swim and use that as an opportunity to
> urinate.
You definitely have a "pissing fetish"! No wonder...
LP
Lady Pilot
And what would that be?
> Where you go for a swim and use that as an opportunity to
> urinate.
I would find the nearest airport, but I'm not a sailor.
Maybe you could ease the sails and they could go in the water without
embarrassment to themselves?
LP (just asking)
Lady Pilot
"katysails" <katy...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Next time you take ladies out, Bart, maybe you should invest in this
> little
> gizmo....
Same product that has been offered for years in the aviation business.
I found a comparable product for just five bucks in the children's section
many years ago.
LP
Lady Pilot
"Bart Senior" wrote:
> I also enjoy sailing circles around other sailboats. When I'm feeling
> particularly mean, I do it twice to rub it in. : )
I find you particularly mean to women. I agree with everything Katysails
has said about you...
LP
joe
Seamanship question for Bart:
#1 Isn't it part of good seamanship to cater for the well being of your
crew. Keeping them dry, well fed, rested and happy?
> The ladies had gotten their bottoms wet, and so did I, from maybe
> a dozen or so waves that broke over the bow.
I would have provided oilskin pants for the crew or chosen a different
route..
> I'm not one to hold my water. I used the bucket to pee once
> on the way across, when we were heeled sharply. Later on the way
> back, when the wind died I peed off the back.
>
> Halfway across I noticed one of the ladies had a very wet bottom
> after everyone else's bottom had dried off. The poor gal was too
> embarrassed to use the bucket and pee'd in her pants.
Maybe it would have been nice to stop ashore like halfway up the trip to
enable the ladies to comfortably relieve themselves?
Lot of peeing going on, my guess is that plenty of drinks were served on the
way. Alcohol? Any concern for the Coast Guard to be lookout for your
Etchells in the future?
>
> It was her first time sailing. Maybe next time, she think about using
> the bucket rather than have a wet butt for 6 hours.
>
This is probably not the way best way to introduce new people to the
wonderful sport of sailing..
Scout
more thrust in reverse, it looks to me like 45% of that is thanks to the
redirected exhaust. Those guys are always thinking.
Scout
"Bart Senior" <bse...@optonline.net> wrote
Wally
> The plan was boy's day out sailing. The wind looked good for
> a fast 27 mile round trip ...
> At the last minute one fellow substituted his wife and her sister
> The poor gal was too
> embarrassed to use the bucket and pee'd in her pants.
> It was her first time sailing. Maybe next time, she think about using
> the bucket rather than have a wet butt for 6 hours.
With a last-minute change of crew, at least one of whom is a non-sailor,
shouldn't the skipper have reappraised the situation and altered the plan
accordingly?
--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk
Scott Vernon
>
> > Where you go for a swim and use that as an opportunity to
> > urinate.
>
> I would find the nearest airport
and pee out of the airplane?
Scotty
Scott Vernon
>
> Seamanship question for Bart:
>
> #1 Isn't it part of good seamanship to cater for the well being of
your
> crew. Keeping them dry, well fed, rested and happy?
I've always heard you're supposed to treat your crew with disdain.
Scotty
Scout
to do a prop check, then sneaking a pee.
Scout
"Scott Vernon" <Sco...@Seidelmann.com> wrote in message
news:2qld2aF...@uni-berlin.de...
Scott Vernon
S
"Scout" <scout...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Phf1d.585401$Gx4.4...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Scout
Scout
"Scott Vernon" <Sco...@Seidelmann.com> wrote in message
news:2qldseF...@uni-berlin.de...
Scott Vernon
Scotty, BTW, I'll be in W.Chester today and tomorrow.
"Scout" <scout...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5sf1d.585427$Gx4....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Scout
Scout
"Scott Vernon" <Sco...@Seidelmann.com> wrote in message
news:2qlevdF...@uni-berlin.de...
Scott Vernon
Scotty
"Scout" <scout...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_Ff1d.357957$OB3....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Scout
Scout
"Scott Vernon" <Sco...@Seidelmann.com> wrote in message
news:2qlg3vF...@uni-berlin.de...
DSK
> IIRC, you can use a spinnaker to sail upwind but must not tack with
> it.
Why not? This strikes me as an unnecessary rule. Tacking with a
spinnaker is not a good way to get upwind, especially if you're in any
kind of close quarters... ask me how I know!
> On an Etchells you'd be blown away with this tactic. VMG to windward
> under main and jib is just too good.
Yes it's a great efficient rig. But how about something like a screecher
or Code Zero? Would it be possible to gain enough speed through the
water to make up for the low pointing?
BTW there are a number of fleets where Etchells participate in PHRF
racing as a courtesy (and to bulk up participation) but most places they
prefer fleet racing. Technically, to be eligible for a PHRF rating you
have to have things like a head, a bow pulpit, etc etc. Imagine doing a
distance race on an Etchells!
Fresh Breezes- Doug King
DSK
> We've been chiding him on these points all year....he has probably created
> another "non-sailor"....
I think you're wronging Bart on several points. He wanted to go for a
sail, they wanted to go along. If Bart doesn't have a working head on
board, that's a bit of a barrier to longer sails with women on board...
but at least he tried...
DSK
Bart Senior
George bailed out before we left the dock, and the girls invited
themselves along. I warned them. They were careful not to
drink any water either--they knew what they were getting into.
I didn't invite any ladies, just more experienced men. I wanted
to try out that new spinnaker-which turned out to be too big. My
first choice would have been to head upwind which would have
been a wet ride, followed by a deep broad reach back to test it
out. The Port Jeff option, I discussed early, including the time it
would take--about five hours, and I discussed the option of turning
around at Middle Ground--halfway. Fred was particularly keen to
get a response from the women--and one favored it--the other said
nothing--she wet her pants before we got to Middle Ground.
I gave my guests a good ride. Fred drove most of the day--he also
drove up from New Jersey to be there. I wanted him to see what
the boat was all about. Monica took the helm for a while also, and
did much of the sail trim. I didn't touch the helm all day and hardly
touched a sheet. I let them do what they wanted.
By the way, my "bucket" was a flexible Clorox bottle scoop. It's
perfect to piss in--for either sex. Part of being a sailor is being able
to use "the bucket". My 11 year old niece can do it.
"DSK" <d...@dontbotherme.com> wrote
Bart Senior
"Lady Pilot" <some...@somewhere.abc> wrote
Bart Senior
We would win every start. We came in 4th at one Great Pumpkin
Regatta, out of maybe 90 boats. We were first overall of the fleet
that went clockwise around Angel Island. The three boats that beat
us all went around the island counter clockwise. If you have never
done one of these races, imagine two fleets meeting head on, on beam
reaches on the windward end of the island--exciting stuff, although
I think my skipper pee'd in his pants.
In another race, starting with the smallest boats of three size classes,
we lead the race for all fleets until the last leg when a 60 footer passed
us. We were second overall, and first in our fleet and of course beat
the entire middle sized fleet easily.
Putting an Etchells with trained crew in a PHRF is like putting a wolf
in the chicken shack.
A well cut, lightweight nylon drifter sheeted all the way aft to the
spinnaker
exit blocks would be a great sail for an Etchells in the very light air we
often get on the Sound.
"DSK" <d...@dontbotherme.com> wrote
Bart Senior
If I gave you everything you wanted, then I wouldn't be mean.
"Lady Pilot" <some...@somewhere.abc> wrote
Bart Senior
"joe" <n...@nospam.invalid> wrote
>
> #1 Isn't it part of good seamanship to cater for the well being of your
> crew. Keeping them dry, well fed, rested and happy?
There is no such thing as "dry" on an Etchells.
> > The ladies had gotten their bottoms wet, and so did I, from maybe
> > a dozen or so waves that broke over the bow.
> I would have provided oilskin pants for the crew or chosen a different
> route..
The temp was 70 degrees and peaked at 76 degrees. Water temp was
72 degrees.
It is a mile out of the river. The choice of routes is not relevant;
avoiding the
shoals in the river is relevant. Once in the Sound, the number of options
is
limited.
I dry sail this boat. It is stored on a trailer. It is not worth putting
it in and
hoisting it out, unless I take it out for at least four hours.
> Maybe it would have been nice to stop ashore like halfway up the trip to
> enable the ladies to comfortably relieve themselves?
Halfway was 7 miles from land. Only a lighthouse surrounded by rocks.
On any other route without an inflatable and outboard, there would have
been no place to stop.
> Lot of peeing going on, my guess is that plenty of drinks were served on
the
> way. Alcohol? Any concern for the Coast Guard to be lookout for your
> Etchells in the future?
You would have guessed wrong. You must be speaking from experience. I'd
guess you drink heavily when you sail.
There was no alcohol on board, only water. Very little of that was drunk.
I
don't bring alcohol when I go sailing. That's for powerboaters, you, and
CM.
> This is probably not the way best way to introduce new people to the
> wonderful sport of sailing..
Ya think? Maybe if I invited them I would have been better prepared and
chosen
something else like going to a movie.
Bart Senior
"Wally" <cedar_...@hotmail.com> wrote
joe
>
> "joe" <n...@nospam.invalid> wrote
>>
>> #1 Isn't it part of good seamanship to cater for the well being of your
>> crew. Keeping them dry, well fed, rested and happy?
>
> There is no such thing as "dry" on an Etchells.
That's why any experienced keelboat sailor would have brought along proper
clothing, and not have their butts soaked..
If it's warm waterproof shorts might be enough..
>
> It is a mile out of the river. The choice of routes is not relevant;
> avoiding the
> shoals in the river is relevant. Once in the Sound, the number of options
> is
> limited.
>
>> Maybe it would have been nice to stop ashore like halfway up the trip to
>> enable the ladies to comfortably relieve themselves?
>
> Halfway was 7 miles from land. Only a lighthouse surrounded by rocks.
> On any other route without an inflatable and outboard, there would have
> been no place to stop.
>
"After a quick spin around the Port Jeff harbor, pointing out the hurricane
hole and other feature of this fabulous harbor, to my friend Fred, we
headed out. I like to learn about new harbors. It's always nice to have
local knowledge of choice harbors."
Well, why couldn't you stop there and take a walk ashore to learn more? Or
maybe you are not confident in maneuvering your boat under sail well enough
to enter and dock at new harbors..
Wally
> What would you suggest? Going to a movie?
Was the movie called "Introduction To Sailing"?
--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk
Scout
Scout
"Wally" <cedar_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2qm5tpF...@uni-berlin.de...
Wally
> hey Wally, I see lots of water in your paintings, why no sailboats?
It's never occurred to me to include some - maybe they're a bit worldly for
what I'm about with the paintings.
--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk
Nav
DSK wrote:
>
> Yes it's a great efficient rig. But how about something like a screecher
> or Code Zero? Would it be possible to gain enough speed through the
> water to make up for the low pointing?
>
No, I don't think so -an idea demonstrated by IACC racing. Think about
the apparent wind shifting as speed rises. The key to good upwind
performace is the lift drag ratio. So, we see the benefit of the jib
with it's sharp _stable_ entry for upwind work.
Cheers
katysails
"Scott Vernon" <Sco...@Seidelmann.com> wrote in message
> Your link didn't work, but I know what it is. There was one in the Mac
> when we bought it. I used it as a funnel to fill the alcohol stove .
>
> Scotty
>
> "katysails" <katy...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:TJ51d.355221$OB3.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > Next time you take ladies out, Bart, maybe you should invest in this
> little
> >
> isplay
> > ?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=35264
> >
> >
>
>
DSK
>> screecher or Code Zero? Would it be possible to gain enough speed
>> through the water to make up for the low pointing?
>>
Nav wrote:
> No, I don't think so -an idea demonstrated by IACC racing. Think about
> the apparent wind shifting as speed rises.
I don't think so either, but it would be fun to check it out. Expensve,
tho'...
> ... The key to good upwind
> performace is the lift drag ratio.
True enough, but the best combined angles are in constant flux. Plus,
the Etchells has much lower aspect ratio rig & foils than an IACC boat.
It's not a good starting point for generalizing. There *might* be some
cases where big light high camber head sail like a screecher or Code 0
might give faster VMG... it would almost certainly be too specialized a
case to be worth pursuing though.
Some boats carry this type of sail all around the course. A few years
back I watched some Windrider Raves (a small foil riding trimaran)
racing, the ones equipped with screechers carried them up wind, much
faster at a lower angle, and beat the ones without quite handily.
Fresh Breezes- Doug King
katysails
"Horvath" <Te...@Fartingmor.com> wrote in message
news:vrs9k0tu5rr44gv74...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 09:27:16 +1000, OzOne <> wrote this crap:
>
> >
> >IIRC, you can use a spinnaker to sail upwind but must not tack with
> >it.
>
> What do you know? I always use a spinnaker upwind, and also two
> bloopers. One on each side.
>
>
>
> Hor...@Horvath.net
>
> Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!
katysails
before anyone can suggest a MOB drill....
"Bart Senior" <bse...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:UN81d.1437$jb2.2...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
> Another option is the notorious "Prop Check"
>
> Where you go for a swim and use that as an opportunity to
> urinate.
>
>
> "Lady Pilot" <some...@somewhere.abc> wrote
> >
> > "Scott Vernon" <Sco...@Seidelmann.com> wrote:
> > > "Edgar" <edgar...@c2i.net> wrote ...
> > >>
> > >> It is clear from your post that she had
> > >> figured out that using the bucket was going to be somewhat
> > > embarassing
> > >> anyway but doubly difficult when the boat is 'blasting' across the
> > > bay
> > >> probably at a considerable angle of heel.
> > >
> > > plus Bart holding his digital camera at the ready prolly didn't help
> > > any.
> >
> > No doubt, Scott! LOL
> >
> > LP
>
>
katysails
"Scout" <scout...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Phf1d.585401$Gx4.4...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
katysails
yes...mean...I don't think so....he just doesn't think in the right
direction sometimes....and he does have his good side....
"Lady Pilot" <some...@somewhere.abc> wrote in message
news:5k91d.44067$mu.31129@okepread07...
katysails
what-so-ever expressing themselves....I do think that Bart could have been
more considerate, but then, I don't know the women and maybe they were
constrained by embarrassment....one would think someone on the boat would
have realized that but what's done is done and they will probably never want
to see Bart again.....
"Lady Pilot" <some...@somewhere.abc> wrote in message
>
> "Bart Senior" wrote:
>
> >I hope not.
> >
> > She was a nice girl. Somewhat shy.
>
> But you still managed to make her piss her pants...
>
> > Fred and I asked the ladies if they wanted to head back
> > after passing Middle Ground, and no one said anything!
>
> Those Polish women aren't used to American men, I would bet on it!
>
> LP (take Katy's advice, really!)
>
>
>
>
katysails
have known that and told them to bring the appropriate clothes (like bathing
suits, maybe?) or nylon shorts....His sin is being inconsiderate, not
stupid.....
"joe" <n...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:ci4j4t$kil$1...@nyytiset.pp.htv.fi...
katysails
BTW Bart, is the friend still yloour friend?news:2qlak3F...@uni-berlin.de...
> Bart Senior wrote:
>
> > The plan was boy's day out sailing. The wind looked good for
> > a fast 27 mile round trip ...
>
> > At the last minute one fellow substituted his wife and her sister
>
> > The poor gal was too
> > embarrassed to use the bucket and pee'd in her pants.
>
> > It was her first time sailing. Maybe next time, she think about using
> > the bucket rather than have a wet butt for 6 hours.
>
> With a last-minute change of crew, at least one of whom is a non-sailor,
> shouldn't the skipper have reappraised the situation and altered the plan
> accordingly?
>
>
> Wally
> www.artbywally.com
> www.wally.myby.co.uk
>
>
katysails
"Bart Senior" <bse...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:NGj1d.6183$G03.1...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
Bart Senior
LP, on the other hand, has no hope of ever comprehending me.
"katysails" <katy...@worldnet.att.net> wrote
katysails
technique....Expecting people who don't sail to realize the physical limits
that sometimes arise is a mistake....even if he did explain....
"DSK" <d...@dontbotherme.com> wrote in message
news:5Fg1d.55021$Np2....@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
katysails
should have spoken up and explained yopu were not prepared for non-sailors
and that there would be no facilities so therefore they should change their
plans and go to the beach or something...you are not obligated to
inconvenience your plans for others....by trying to be nice, you ended up
being a jerk....stop trying and just be yourself....news:_aj1d.2153$G03.1...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
Bart Senior
"joe" <n...@nospam.invalid> wrote
> Bart Senior wrote:
> > There is no such thing as "dry" on an Etchells.
> That's why any experienced keelboat sailor would have brought along proper
> clothing, and not have their butts soaked..
>
> If it's warm waterproof shorts might be enough..
Nude sailing makes more sense.
> "After a quick spin around the Port Jeff harbor, <snip>
> Well, why couldn't you stop there and take a walk ashore to learn more? Or
> maybe you are not confident in maneuvering your boat under sail well
enough
> to enter and dock at new harbors..
It would have been fine with me, but everyone wanted to head back.
I like docking under sail--I learned to dock under sail when I was 9.
However,
there was little chance of finding dock space at PJ. My club has a mooring
over
there, but it is a mile from the town. I don't bring a dinghy for day
sailing, and
have no place for an outboard.
These are all great suggestions Joe. You should follow them yourself.
katysails
genius, but I doubt I'd ever appreciate it....
"Bart Senior" <bse...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:Ebp1d.6623$G03.2...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
katysails
"Bart Senior" <bse...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:Ilp1d.6660$G03.2...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
DSK
> If that was the plan, then when your friend showed up with his women you
> should have spoken up and explained yopu were not prepared for non-sailors
> and that there would be no facilities so therefore they should change their
> plans and go to the beach or something...you are not obligated to
> inconvenience your plans for others....by trying to be nice, you ended up
> being a jerk....stop trying and just be yourself....
Fixing the head would be a good option too...
For some years we kept spare foul weather gear aboard... not the real
good stuff, but adequate for unprepared guests for most weather. We had
one friend show up with one of those K-mart ponchos and insisted he was
OK with that... man did he ever get soaked!
I don't agree that Bart should have changed his plans for guests he
wasn't even expecting. What were his obligations to them? American women
are too spoiled, they expect to be catered to for no reason.
But OTOH it is a good idea to show newbies that sailing is fun... they
can find out about the torture part later! Bart, you may have chased
away potential future crew.
Fresh Breezes- Doug King
katysails
have sent them home...and they were not American women...and since when does
an Etchell's have a head to fix???? I thought they were open daysailors....news:Zwp1d.56378$Np2....@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
katysails
for them was a necessity....Guys I've sailed with have been quite blunt
about it....
<OzOne> wrote in message news:94ack09dfs1imibh0...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:58:16 GMT, "katysails"
> <katy...@worldnet.att.net> scribbled thusly:
>
> >Uh...DOug...I said he shouldn't have changed his plans for them...should
> >have sent them home...and they were not American women...and since when
does
> >an Etchell's have a head to fix???? I thought they were open
daysailors....
>
>
>
> Oz1...of the 3 twins.
>
> I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.
Nav
DSK wrote:
That'll be foils not performing at low speed?
Cheers
Nav
Cheers
Scout
"Nav" <iga...@dr.sailing.net> wrote in message
news:414634c1$1...@news.auckland.ac.nz...
Nav
Bart Senior wrote:
> In time, katy, you will come to appreciate my true genius.
>
Kook doesn't like Levis. They are not designer you know.
> LP, on the other hand, has no hope of ever comprehending me.
>
Anyone?
Cheers
Nav
Bart Senior wrote:
> I like docking under sail--I learned to sail under docks when I was 9.
DSK
katysails wrote:
> No....but courtesy and politely informing them that this was not the trip
> for them was a necessity....Guys I've sailed with have been quite blunt
> about it....
Why? Let them make the choice, which is what I gathered Bart did from
his post. These women decided to go sailing, for whatever reason, and
you assume that all social problems ensuing must be Bart's fault.
Being a native Southerner, I take hospitality seriously. But there are
reasonable limits, especially in a sporting activity engaged in by
mutual consent. By analogy, if I was going mountain climbing and some
friends of friends and wanted to tag along, I would do my best to not
let them fall... but I wouldn't feel an obligation to glue a pillow to
each and every rock...
DSK
DSK
>> back I watched some Windrider Raves (a small foil riding trimaran)
>> racing, the ones equipped with screechers carried them up wind, much
>> faster at a lower angle, and beat the ones without quite handily.
>>
Nav wrote:
> That'll be foils not performing at low speed?
About half the ones without screechers were up on their foils most of
the time. Part of the issue was that the screechers made accelerating
out of tacks *much* quicker. But the tacking angles were very wide, some
boats that deliberately sailed high & slow were quite close in the hunt
(among the non-screecher boats).
It was interesting to watch, I would have liked to try racing one of
these boats.
Fresh Breezes- Doug King
Nav
OzOne wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:58:16 GMT, "katysails"
> <katy...@worldnet.att.net> scribbled thusly:
>
>
>>Uh...DOug...I said he shouldn't have changed his plans for them...should
>>have sent them home...and they were not American women...and since when does
>>an Etchell's have a head to fix???? I thought they were open daysailors....
>
>
> so a head isn't necessary ;-)
>
Double double entendres!
Cheers
Nav
Cheers
Donal
> Scout wrote:
> > hey Wally, I see lots of water in your paintings, why no sailboats?
>
> It's never occurred to me to include some - maybe they're a bit worldly
for
> what I'm about with the paintings.
That sounds a bit political to me. Are you a leftie?
Do you hope to sell any paintings for lots of dosh?
Why don't you do a painting that involves sailing - for the newsgroup?
We've had poetry and music. I think that we are ready for some art!!!
Regards
Donal
--
katysails
katysails
type.....news:41463673$1...@news.auckland.ac.nz...
Jonathan Ganz
>On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 02:01:10 GMT, "katysails"
><katy...@worldnet.att.net> scribbled thusly:
>
>>I don't buy Levi products....I wear LandsEnd.....hardly the designer
>>type.....
>
When I was in grad school, I had a female classmate who wore them all
the time. She was known as no-man's land. Too bad...
--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."
Bart Senior
crewed for me on ECHO. By the way, neither of the ladies is spoiled
--and they are not American.
Monica is an avid sailor, and I definitely want her back as crew. She
and George both have a lot to learn, but they are putting huge effort
into learning, and they're great company.
75% of learning is attitude. Both George and Monica have a serious
interest in the sport, and that is reflected in their attitude--both helpful
and thoughtful.
If someone want to come sailing with me, and I have space, I'll always
say yes. That comes from a childhood where I was eager to sail and
grateful for the times I was taken out. Pay it forward, if you can't pay
it back.
"DSK" <d...@dontbotherme.com> wrote
Bart Senior
attitude, they might invite you along next time! <grin>
"katysails" <katy...@worldnet.att.net> wrote
> No....but courtesy and politely informing them that this was not the trip
> for them was a necessity....Guys I've sailed with have been quite blunt
> about it....
> <OzOne> wrote
> > On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 22:58:16 GMT, "katysails"
Bart Senior
guests. I don't feel bad. Also, taking ECHO would not have worked.
This trip had two purposes. First was to thank Fred for taking my lady
friend and I out sailing on his Valiant 37 a few weeks ago in New York
Harbor. Also, I've had an open invite to him to come sail HOOT, to
expose him to an Etchells. He had been looking forward to it. This was
the main reason for the days adventure. He loved it of course.
Fred's spent a lot of time on small boats. He's moved up to a bigger boat,
but I felt, that with his skills, he needed to be exposed to the cool
features
of an Etchells. Oz will understand, and so will Doug, or anyone who has
sailed a boat will lots of controls for sail shape.
When I raced Etchells in SF Bay, it was two years before I felt I was
really getting the hang of it. And I know that today, I still have much to
learn to get the most out of these boats. If you really want to learn to
sail well, you need a good mount.
Fred and I have been though some nasty rough conditions together. We
don't let each other down, and have a close bond. Some friends you don't
let down. That is the kind of friendship we have. If I live to be a
hundred,
I'll look back at my life and be glad that I had a few close friends like
Fred.
The second reason, was I wanted to try out that new spinnaker. I made
sure I had it, and I also made both new battens and mast blocks because
I wanted Fred to see HOOT looking it's best.
Regarding going out on ECHO. There were many reasons not to do
that. First, Fred already sailed on ECHO--he helped me deliver the
boat from South Jersey a few years back. That would not have been
special.
Also, ECHO has no mainsail until I get the Dutchman system mounted
later this week. There will be a time I'll invite Fred and his girlfriend
up
for a sail, and I'll make Liberty Landing a destination in the future.
Before
I do that, I want ECHO's rigging and interior to be in Bristol condition.
I'll allow my crew to see ECHO in less than perfect condition, because
they see the steady improvements. I don't want people to see ECHO
just once and remember something about the boat that needed work.
Each of these reasons was enough to eliminate ECHO from the equation.
Finally, HOOT is a "hoot" to sail. ECHO is big and comfortable, and
a nice party boat, but not as much fun to sail. HOOT is an E-ticket
white knuckle, avalanche, nose-bleed of a ride.
"DSK" <d...@dontbotherme.com> wrote
Wally
> That sounds a bit political to me. Are you a leftie?
Since when has "worldly" been a political thing? The nearest my subject
matter gets to realism is surreal landscapes - I'm depicting something other
than the conventional world.
> Do you hope to sell any paintings for lots of dosh?
If you tell me which one you want, I'll consider selling it to you.
> Why don't you do a painting that involves sailing - for the newsgroup?
I might. I might not. Who knows?
--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk
Overproof
I'm certain he'll find a "Plaice" for it.
...and Wally.... put your "Sole" into it!
You know... something that makes your eye "migrate" .
CM
DSK
> I've actually used a spinnaker upwind to good effect.
Yep. A few times we've been in races where the spinnakers came out on
upwind legs... or the wind shifted close to 180...
> A very flat cut kite and sheeted by hand before it passed thru blocks.
> Obviously very light conditions and flat flat water.
> The sail is pulled pretty tight along the foot and the leech opened
> and closed by raising and lowering your hand to keep the sail full.
Yes you can carry the sail amazingly high if the leach is pulled down
but it hurts the drive. I kept our spin sheet draped over top of the aft
end of the boom to keep this from happening much of the time.
> A collapse is disastrous because you need to pull well away to refill.
Very true... which is why you ahve to be very careful not to get blanketed.
One time we were caught in a big wind shift turning a run into a beat...
we were out on the corner and tight reaching in with great speed, sure
to win but the damn wind kept heading us. We crossed ahead of almost
everybody and then tried to tack with the spinnaker still up... we were
only a few yards from the mark I thought we could save time if we could
get around it with the chute still up... guess again! Went from 2nd to
about 32nd....
I think the race my wife will remember forever is one at Savannah, where
we had a very tight reach down the river and went from jib to spinnaker
& back again about 30 times... we also went from way down in the fleet
to 3rd or so.
Fresh Breezes- Doug King
Horvath
Ganz) wrote this crap:
>
>When I was in grad school, I had a female classmate who wore them all
>the time. She was known as no-man's land. Too bad...
So the only women you know are dykes?
Jonathan Ganz
Horvath <Te...@Fartingmor.com> wrote:
>
>The only women I know are dykes.
Donal
> Donal wrote:
>
> > That sounds a bit political to me. Are you a leftie?
>
> Since when has "worldly" been a political thing? The nearest my subject
> matter gets to realism is surreal landscapes
What a crooked answer to a straight question!
> - I'm depicting something other
> than the conventional world.
As do all lefties ...
>
>
> > Do you hope to sell any paintings for lots of dosh?
>
> If you tell me which one you want, I'll consider selling it to you.
Emmm. uhh ... errrr ... [cough]
Have you thought about doing a painting that involves sailing?
>
>
> > Why don't you do a painting that involves sailing - for the newsgroup?
>
> I might. I might not. Who knows?
You do.
Regards
Donal
--
Wally
> What a crooked answer to a straight question!
What I said had nothing to do with politics. I don't do politics.
> Have you thought about doing a painting that involves sailing?
I've considered it. Why do you ask?
--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk