Water in the tank. Why did the engine run at all ?

[barret bondon]

Why did the engine run at all ?
Atomic 4 in a 1977 27 foot Columbia. Boat had sat all last summer. Engine
started and ran fine for half an hour, got us 200 yards outside the
breakwater ( not a rough sea, but more motion than in the harbor) where it
quit. I pulled a fuel line; lots of water in the gas.
Q: Why did it work at all ? Assuming the fuel/ water mix homogenized out
of the harbor and got drawn into the pump doesn't tell me how to prevent
this on the next boat. Where is the intake on most tanks ? Water sinks to
the bottom of course, and I assume the intake is at the bottom of most
tanks; in that case I never would have left the dock.

(not my boat, BTW !)

[Wilbur Hubbard]

"barret bondon" <sup...@networks-cc.com> wrote in message
news:4fb677cf$0$14786$607e...@cv.net...

Water in fuel tanks is a common problem. It would seem to me that built-in
tanks should all have a small sump at the lowest part with a drain valve
to check for and get rid of any water that collects from condensation or
water in the fuel from dubious sources.

In lieu of that, you should install a large fuel/water separator filter in
the intake line and check and drain it frequently. Your theory of
'frothing' or mixing is probably why the motor ran OK for a while but when
things got a little rougher the engine quit because enough water got into
the carburetor so fill the float bowl.

Wilbur Hubbard

[Wayne.B]

On Fri, 18 May 2012 13:01:51 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
<wilbur...@thefarm.invalid> wrote:

>Water in fuel tanks is a common problem. It would seem to me that built-in
>tanks should all have a small sump at the lowest part with a drain valve
>to check for and get rid of any water that collects from condensation or
>water in the fuel from dubious sources.
>

Water in fuel tanks is a common problem but ABYC and USCG standards,
not to mention your insurance company, require that gasoline be drawn
from the top of the tank with a dip tube and no sump drains are
allowed. The risk of gasoline leaking into the bilge is too high.

>In lieu of that, you should install a large fuel/water separator filter in
>the intake line and check and drain it frequently.

That is the right solution but if mounted below decks with a gasoline
engine, the filter is not allowed to have a drain fitting.

Chances are that the engine initially ran OK because the water level
in the tank was below the dip tube pickup. Dip tubes never go all
the way to the bottom. As the boat moved around while underway,
water got picked up as the fuel sloshed around.

Detecting and getting rid of water in the bottom of a permanently
installed gasoline tank is difficult because no sump drain is allowed.
If your fill pipe goes straight down into the tank from the cockpit
you can put water sensing paste on the end of a stick and dip it to
the bottom. If the paste turns color, usually red or purple, you have
water on the bottom. The only way to remove it is with a plastic
tube and small transfer pump.

Google search: gasoline water sensing paste

<http://www.google.com/#hl=en&gs_nf=1&gs_mss=gasoline%20water%20s&cp=28&gs_id=32&xhr=t&q=gasoline+water+sensing+paste&pf=p&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&oq=gasoline+water+sensing+paste&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=ca5e4e80e08f4ec0&biw=1015&bih=612>

[Anonymous]

Nellie has water on the brain and no balls.

http://losenotloose.com/887ta

Neal D. Warren/Wilbur Hubbard/Gregory Hall
PO Box 1015
Tavernier, FL 33070
305 304-7546

[Horva...@net.net]

On Fri, 18 May 2012 12:24:51 -0400, "barret bondon"
<sup...@networks-cc.com> wrote this crap:

The fuel pickup is never at the bottom of the tank. There is a small
area in the tank that is lower than the pickup. When water condenses
in the tank it goes to the bottom, also dirt and sand will go to that
area. When you went into the rough water the water probably sloshed
around and got into the fuel pickup.

To solve the problem, add alcohol to the fuel in the spring.

Vote for Romney. Repeal the nightmares.

--- Posted via news://freenews.netfront.net/ - Complaints to ne...@netfront.net ---

[Wilbur Hubbard]

<Horva...@net.net> wrote in message
news:q8ndr7dmigo1ao7rg...@4ax.com...

What a dumbass suggestion. It sounds to me like you've added too much
alcohol to your stomach in the spring, summer, fall and winter. LOL.

Any alcohol you add to fuel/water will only result in fuel/alcohol/water.
It will still end up in the carburetor float bowl where it will end up
stopping the process of internal combustion because water is to dense to
be drawn through the small orifices (jets) into the venturi and into the
intake manifold.

Wilbur Hubbard

[Horva...@net.net]

On Sat, 19 May 2012 14:28:59 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
<wilbur...@thefarm.invalid> wrote this crap:

Alcohol is one of the very few liquids that will dissolve in both
water and gasoline. It will mix both of them together and will burn
in the internal combustion engine.

[Fritz Wuehler]

Capt. LIMP DICK knows all about being an ass.

[Fritz Wuehler]

This moron Horvath is even dumber than shit-for-brain Warren.

Capt. LIMP DICK has water on the brain and he can't leak.

[Wilbur Hubbard]

<Horva...@net.net> wrote in message
news:a9egr75adb1iahs4m...@4ax.com...

Uh, water won't burn.

[Horva...@net.net]

On Sun, 20 May 2012 13:15:26 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
<wilbur...@thefarm.invalid> wrote this crap:

>>

>> Alcohol is one of the very few liquids that will dissolve in both
>> water and gasoline. It will mix both of them together and will burn
>> in the internal combustion engine.
>
>
>Uh, water won't burn.

Alcohol does, dumbass. Put some whiskey in a glass and light it. It
will burn. In an internal combustion engine the fuel pump will pump
the mixture to the engine and it will burn. The remaining water will
vaporize and be expelled through the exhaust. I probably used too
many big words for you but you can use this as your next science
experiment for fourth grade.

[Wilbur Hubbard]

<Horva...@net.net> wrote in message
news:prdir7pojccb8afvt...@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 20 May 2012 13:15:26 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
> <wilbur...@thefarm.invalid> wrote this crap:
>
>>>
>>> Alcohol is one of the very few liquids that will dissolve in both
>>> water and gasoline. It will mix both of them together and will burn
>>> in the internal combustion engine.
>>
>>
>>Uh, water won't burn.
>
> Alcohol does, dumbass. Put some whiskey in a glass and light it. It
> will burn. In an internal combustion engine the fuel pump will pump
> the mixture to the engine and it will burn. The remaining water will
> vaporize and be expelled through the exhaust. I probably used too
> many big words for you but you can use this as your next science
> experiment for fourth grade.

Yes, the alcohol burns but the water doesn't burn. It might turn into
steam but it doesn't burn. And, if there's too much water mixed with the
alcohol, even the alcohol won't burn in the combustion chamber which is a
far different story than some PUTZ igniting a perfectly good glass of
whiskey.

The only real answer is to remove the water from the fuel tank by draining
the tank at the very bottom where the water collects. Sheeesh!

Wilbur Hubbard

[Horva...@net.net]

On Sun, 20 May 2012 14:38:40 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
<wilbur...@thefarm.invalid> wrote this crap:

>

>Yes, the alcohol burns but the water doesn't burn. It might turn into
>steam but it doesn't burn. And, if there's too much water mixed with the
>alcohol, even the alcohol won't burn in the combustion chamber which is a
>far different story than some PUTZ igniting a perfectly good glass of
>whiskey.

Use cheap whiskey, dumbass.

>The only real answer is to remove the water from the fuel tank by draining
>the tank at the very bottom where the water collects. Sheeesh!
>
>Wilbur Hubbard

There is no pickup at the bottom, dumbass. What I used to do on my
Harley was to drain all the gas out, then drop a rope into the tank to
absorb up the water.

[Wilbur Hubbard]

<Horva...@net.net> wrote in message
news:40qir7l1gb0ffi2v7...@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 20 May 2012 14:38:40 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
> <wilbur...@thefarm.invalid> wrote this crap:
>
>>
>>Yes, the alcohol burns but the water doesn't burn. It might turn into
>>steam but it doesn't burn. And, if there's too much water mixed with the
>>alcohol, even the alcohol won't burn in the combustion chamber which is
>>a
>>far different story than some PUTZ igniting a perfectly good glass of
>>whiskey.
>
> Use cheap whiskey, dumbass.

Some of have enough class that we don't buy cheap whiskey, you sod!

>>The only real answer is to remove the water from the fuel tank by
>>draining
>>the tank at the very bottom where the water collects. Sheeesh!
>

> There is no pickup at the bottom, dumbass. What I used to do on my
> Harley was to drain all the gas out, then drop a rope into the tank to
> absorb up the water.

But, when the sailboat is being tossed around by rough seas, the water and
other crud that's settled out to the bottom of the tank in calm conditions
or at the dock, quickly becomes mixed with the good stuff and the result
is a slurry of the bad stuff that clogs filters, collects in float bowls
and eventually kills the motor. Draining off the bad stuff from the bottom
BEFORE it becomes mixed to a nasty slurry would be the quickest way to rid
the tank of the crud.

And, don't tell me about some POS Harley. If you had a real motorcycle
that had a real petcock on the bottom of the tank like a Suzuki does, you
could simply pull the fuel line off the petcock, turn the petcock to the
"aux" position and drain the contents simply and easily because the "aux"
position has no standpipe and drains the tank completely dry.

Rice RULES!


Wilbur Hubbard

[Horva...@net.net]

On Sun, 20 May 2012 19:08:01 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"

<wilbur...@thefarm.invalid> wrote this crap:\

>>>Yes, the alcohol burns but the water doesn't burn. It might turn into
>>>steam but it doesn't burn. And, if there's too much water mixed with the
>>>alcohol, even the alcohol won't burn in the combustion chamber which is
>>>a
>>>far different story than some PUTZ igniting a perfectly good glass of
>>>whiskey.
>>
>> Use cheap whiskey, dumbass.
>
>Some of have enough class that we don't buy cheap whiskey, you sod!

You would burn expensive whiskey? That's blasphemy!

>>>The only real answer is to remove the water from the fuel tank by
>>>draining
>>>the tank at the very bottom where the water collects. Sheeesh!
>>
>> There is no pickup at the bottom, dumbass. What I used to do on my
>> Harley was to drain all the gas out, then drop a rope into the tank to
>> absorb up the water.
>
>But, when the sailboat is being tossed around by rough seas, the water and
>other crud that's settled out to the bottom of the tank in calm conditions
>or at the dock, quickly becomes mixed with the good stuff and the result
>is a slurry of the bad stuff that clogs filters, collects in float bowls
>and eventually kills the motor. Draining off the bad stuff from the bottom
>BEFORE it becomes mixed to a nasty slurry would be the quickest way to rid
>the tank of the crud.

Two problems there. You don't run the motor when you're out sailing.
And the water NEVER mixes with the gasoline, it always falls to the
bottom.

>And, don't tell me about some POS Harley. If you had a real motorcycle
>that had a real petcock on the bottom of the tank like a Suzuki does, you
>could simply pull the fuel line off the petcock, turn the petcock to the
>"aux" position and drain the contents simply and easily because the "aux"
>position has no standpipe and drains the tank completely dry.

If that were the case, then any condensation in the tank would go to
the bottom and end up in the motor. Any dirt would end up in the
motor as would the rice. In a Harley the fuel pickup is not at the
lowest point in the tank. Water and dirt never end up in the motor.