Gas To Diesel
Doug
460 V-8 to one of the new Diesel engines (e.g. Powerstroke or Cummins).
Anyone had any experience with this? I was told that Cummins sells an
adaptor kit to place the 5.9 ISB into a Ford Econoline chassis. Can
anyone comfirm this. Would the Powerstroke fit well. I know that in 1983
Ford sold vans with the 6.9 liter diesel. What about transmissions,
would the Ford C-6 hold up to the diesel torque? Thanks in advance.
Dave Dodson
Doug wrote in message <35db5...@news.provo.novell.com>...
In one single word....NO! The chassis and the suspension are not designed
to handle the added weight of the diesel, the transmission is not built to
take the torque...To convert would be quite expensive also...The quoted
price for a Ford Powerstroke, from my local dealer, was around $7000 and
that was to replace my 7.3L IDI diesel...The rest of the components are
already designed to handle the diesel weight and torque...You can see that
this becomes a very, very expensive proposition in a hurry...
DaveD
JDavis1277
What you propose is technically doable, but at great expense and with a lot of
difficulty.
Frankly, to invest so much money in a Class C of that vintage makes no economic
sense. You would never come close to recovering the cost.
The better way to have a diesel motorhome would be to trade up to a later
model.
I assume (dangerous word) you are seeking better fuel economy or reliability or
both. You can pay for a lot of fuel and overhauls for the cost of retrofitting
your rig with a diesel.
Butch Davis-
Doug
know all about 'upgrading' to a diesel motorhome - $45,000 to $60,000.
Why not put 8 to 10,000 in my unit (that suits me well) and still come
out ahead. Come on - owning a MH period doesn't make 'economic sense'.
I now have an excellent coach that just needs a better powerplant.
JDavis1277
Perhaps I misread your post. I thought you said you have a Class C you want to
convert to diesel.
Now I understand you want to convert the unit to diesel to tow a 6000 pound
boat.
I tow a fairly heavy 24 foot 1978 SeaRay Sundancer. Boat and trailer probably
are in the neighborhood of 6000 pounds.
It is hard for me to imagine a much worse tow vehicle than a Class C RV for
towing a very heavy boat down the highway. Maybe a Blazer or other short
wheelbase vehicle with ballon tires would be worse, but not by far.
Remember, your Class C is probably pretty close to the limit on tires, brakes,
suspension, etc. Converting to diesel will not give you anywhere near the
additional torque you would need to add a 6000 pound load to an already maxed
out package.
For $8 to 10K you could buy a 10 to 12 year old long wheelbase 3/4 ton diesel
pickup which is the ideal tow vehicle for your boat.
IMO there is no Class C (old or new) capable of SAFELY towing a 6000 pound
boat.
Anyway, I wish you luck with your project.
Butch-
Dave Watkins
I will not tell you what you should buy or upgrade to, I will try to answer
some of your answers. You can convert a gas to a deisel. Some of the
added thinsgs that are needed for deisel that will have to be added are:
Number 1 a water seperator. Diesels dispise water in the fuel, it is
something about detonation out the side of the block. You will probably
need a bigger cooling system, diesels put out some heat. Speeking of heat
you will need to add some heat and sound shields around the motor and the
cab. My 7.3 powerstroke has heat shields around the starter also. You will
need to add a second battery for starting, yes it takes the current of two
big batteries to start them and if it gets COLD you will need a block
heater. It doesn't get cold enough in Dallas to need it if the batteries
are in good shape.
To sum it up just to put the diesel running gear in any gas rig is expensive
and there are many things that need to be changed other than just the block.
It might be cheaper and definatly safer to go buy a new chassis and move the
RV to it. I know a new Ford F350 cab and chassis can be had for around
$16-18k. It may cost you close to that to buy all the diesel motor and
parts needed and have them installed.
My 2 cents.
Dave
ROMEO RAABE
diesel and a C-6 trans that pulls an 8500 pound fifth wheel with a stand
up front bedroom (think headwind) and the trans is just fine at 87,000
miles.
Other than adapting to the transmission, you may have to rearrange motor
mounts. The biggest concern will be to beef up the front suspension.
Assuming the axle will take the load, you will probably need different
springs. The radiator may have to be larger also (my 6.9 cooling system
holds 7 gallons. If you are up to doing all the work it could be done
and at less cost than 50-60,000 for a good used rear engine diesel.
Any time you swap a different engine into a vehicle, there will be MANY
unforseen probles to be solved. If you have the time and patience and
money to tinker with, it can be done.
In my past life as a Ford service manager I recall a Born Free class B
that came in for service with a 6 cylinder diesel that had been adapted
to the vehicle and it had a C-6 also.
visit me at www.depere.com/longtermcare
JDavis1277
Doug is talking about converting a 1983 Class C coach from a 460 gas engine to
a diesel in order to use it to tow a 6000 pound boat with the rig.
Comparing your F-250 towing a fiver to a GCVW maxed out Class C is like
comparing apples to oranges. Also, comparing it to a Class B is pretty far out
in left field.
Sure, it is technically feasible to make the conversion. But it is not
technically feasible to SAFELY tow a 6000 pound boat behind the converted rig.
How many diesels that are small enough to fit in the space have more HP than
the 460 CID engine being replaced. More torque? Yes, that's true. That means
another transmission for sure. Unless a lower torque & HP engine is used like
your 87 6.9. But if a lesser diesel is used to replace the 460, what is
gained? Doug says he wants more pulling power for the boat. Economy and
reliability are not issues for him.
I think the input he has been getting is pretty reasonable. He can certainly
make it happen if he wants to spend a lot of money for little to no payback.
This is the USA, so he can use his money any way he wants. The advice he has
been getting simply says it is a hare brained idea, but have fun doing it if
you want to.
Thanks, Butch Davis-
Doug
The boat trailer has its own brakes (and I could add a second set to the
front axle if needed). As it is, the trailer tracks behind the coach
like the whole rig is on rails. It handles great - my wife drives it.
I have upgraded the radiator (I never run over 210 degrees), so we don't
overheat even on 100 degree afternoons. I have an execellent set of
tires that are not overloaded. The dry weight is 9200 the GVW is
11,000. Granted, adding some people, gear, etc and tongue weight I'm
pushing the weight limit.
So what's unsafe about it? I don't wanna run @85 mph, I just want to
get up the hills (mountains here) with less strain on the old gas motor.
Jonathan Race
New motor..................$7000
Rebuild tranny............. 3000
Extras (new fuel
tank, lines, insu-
lation, etc.).............. 2000
Upgrade suspension.... 1000
Reinforce frame.......... 1000
Labor, tax, etc............. 3000
--------------------------------------
Subtotal......................$17000
Could be more, could be less depending on a load of factors. What you
might want to consider for about the same money is a re-chassis. We do
it quite often in the fire service with our rescue trucks and ambulances
- remove the body, throw out the old chassis (cab, frame, engine, drive
train, etc.), roll a new chassis under the old body, hook it all back up
and you're back in business. It's obviously not quite that simple, but
it is do-able and you get all the benefits of a new chassis with the
body you still want to keep.
Good luck - Jonathan
--
Acta Non Verba - Deeds Not Words
Jonathan Race, Firefighter/Paramedic II
Orange County (FL) Fire-Rescue Division
A-Shift, Station 41 - "The Shark Tank"
(http://home.mpinet.net/backdraft)
Reply to: jrace at bitstorm dot net
Erich Coiner
>
> So what's unsafe about it? I don't wanna run @85 mph, I just want to
> get up the hills (mountains here) with less strain on the old gas motor.
Because the brakes on your rig are not enough for 6000 lbs behind it.
You might get up the mountain faster but you could DIE coming down the
other side.
I don't see how replacing an engine that makes 230 hp at 4000 rpm with a
diesel that makes 210 at 2000 rpm is going to get you up the mountain
faster.
Spend 2000 on a Gear vendors overdrive unit and allow the 460 to turn at
3500 rpm on the hills. The engine can take it and you will get up the
mountain faster.
But none of this changes the fact that 6000 pound is too much weight
behind a Class C chassis.
Look underneath your coach and see how substantial (NOT) the frame
extension members are compared to the real frame.
Erich
bro...@my-dejanews.com
doug...@ibm.net wrote:
> I'm interested in converting my 1983 Ford Class C motorhome from the
> 460 V-8 to one of the new Diesel engines (e.g. Powerstroke or Cummins).
> Anyone had any experience with this? I was told that Cummins sells an
> adaptor kit to place the 5.9 ISB into a Ford Econoline chassis. Can
> anyone comfirm this. Would the Powerstroke fit well. I know that in 1983
> Ford sold vans with the 6.9 liter diesel. What about transmissions,
> would the Ford C-6 hold up to the diesel torque? Thanks in advance.
i just read all the replies to your post, some good info. i was just
wondering if all you want to do is be able to pull a 6000 boat, why not beef
up the 460 with headers, cam, intake manifold and new heads. a gear vendor
underdrive (which i used in my ford 460) will also help, but you will turn
some high rpm's at times if you don't have o.d. the extra weight of the boat
tongue and the added weight from the power stroke may be too much for your
frame. worth checking this out with a frame shop. anyways, good luck, if
you can do the swap it would be a nice set up, but don't forget all the
extras that go along with the change. if you make the change i would love to
see a post on how it works out and what was involved. i too would rather have
a power stroke but, i'm just too cheap to make the swap.
brock
brock
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