So gun loons...why didn't all those NRA Texan guns stop this mass stabbing?

[Too_Many_Tools]

Looks like the NRA has been lying to America about how guns keep
Americans safer...and the conservative gun loons were hiding under
their desks while liberals had to step in and tackle the suspect...

TMT


Lone Star College stabbing: At least 14 wounded, suspect in custody
By Dylan Stableford, Yahoo! News

At least 14 people were wounded in an apparent mass stabbing at Lone
Star College's CyFair campus in Cypress, Texas, on Tuesday morning.

The suspect, a white male armed with what one witness described as an
X-Acto knife, was detained, police said. The suspect, believed to be
21, was enrolled at the school.

Harris County Sheriff Adrian Garcia said police received a 911 call at
11:12 a.m. local time reporting a white male "on the loose stabbing
people."

The school was placed on lockdown.

"Seek shelter now," Lone Star College's Twitter feed warned Tuesday
afternoon. "If away, stay away."

The incident occurred near and around the school's Health Science
Center and remains an active crime scene, Garcia said.

"Buildings are still being searched," he added.

Four victims were transported by helicopter with serious injuries
"consistent with laceration," a spokesman for the Harris County
Sheriff's Office said. Two others were taken by ambulance to a local
trauma center.

Two of those victims are in critical condition, he said. Four are in
fair condition. Others victims were treated for minor injuries, and
two refused treatment, Garcia said.

One witness told CNN that the stabber was hearing impaired.

An announcement was made over loudspeakers warning students to seek
shelter. "This is an emergency," the announcement said, according to
KHOU-TV. "Everybody stay inside of your rooms. Do not leave your
rooms."

An alert issued on the school's website indicated that "another
suspect may possibly be at large." But Garcia said surveillance video
reviewed by police indicated there was one "and only one" suspect.

An Instagram user who said he helped apprehend the stabber posted a
photo of a man face down on the ground with a backpack. He said the
man had stabbed five people, including two girls in the cheek.
"Everyone ran the other way ... ," he said. "Me and this kid got em."

Police would not confirm the exact weapon used, but said no firearms
were found at the scene.

The campus was evacuated, Vice Chancellor Randy Key told reporters,
and the college will remain closed for the remainder of the day.

In January, three people were wounded in a shooting at Lone Star
College's North Harris campus near Houston. More than 90,000 students
attend classes across the Lone Star College system's six campuses.

[Robert Westergrom,1900 Harvey rd.,Wilmington,D.E]

Because guns aren't allowed on that campus. Go figger.

[Ed Huntress]

Right. Maybe that's why he didn't have one. But you know, as the gun
nutz frequently tell us, someone intent on mayhem will find another
weapon if he doesn't have a gun.

How did his kill ratio stack up against Adam Lanza's?

--
Ed Huntress

[Jeff M]

On 4/10/2013 7:24 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
[snip]

>> Because guns aren't allowed on that campus. Go figger.
>
> Right. Maybe that's why he didn't have one. But you know, as the gun
> nutz frequently tell us, someone intent on mayhem will find another
> weapon if he doesn't have a gun.
>
> How did his kill ratio stack up against Adam Lanza's?

What if the killer had a firearm with a high capacity magazine?
What could the death count been been?

What if the bystanders were allowed to carry their concealed firearms on
campus?
What are the odds they could have stopped him before he killed or
injured so many?

The answers to these questions are all the same: Nobody really knows.

But I feel kind of like the flag man at an illegal street drag race. I
know people on both sides of me will be blowing right past me, at full
throttle, making thunderingly load noises, and filling the air with
thick clouds of smoke and their noxious exhausts.

[Ed Huntress]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 07:49:11 -0500, Jeff M <NoS...@NoThanks.org>
wrote:

>On 4/10/2013 7:24 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
>[snip]
>>> Because guns aren't allowed on that campus. Go figger.
>>
>> Right. Maybe that's why he didn't have one. But you know, as the gun
>> nutz frequently tell us, someone intent on mayhem will find another
>> weapon if he doesn't have a gun.
>>
>> How did his kill ratio stack up against Adam Lanza's?
>
>
>What if the killer had a firearm with a high capacity magazine?
>What could the death count been been?

Oh, he probably would have done a whole lot better. The knife-wielding
attacker stabbed 14 people and none of them are dead yet. Only two are
critical.

As Holmes and Lanza knew, if you want to rack up big numbers in a mass
slaughter, ya' gotta have an AR and some extra magazines. They're made
for the job.

--
Ed Huntress

[Richard]

On 4/10/2013 8:01 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 07:49:11 -0500, Jeff M<NoS...@NoThanks.org>
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/10/2013 7:24 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
>> [snip]
>>>> Because guns aren't allowed on that campus. Go figger.
>>>
>>> Right. Maybe that's why he didn't have one. But you know, as the gun
>>> nutz frequently tell us, someone intent on mayhem will find another
>>> weapon if he doesn't have a gun.
>>>
>>> How did his kill ratio stack up against Adam Lanza's?
>>
>>
>> What if the killer had a firearm with a high capacity magazine?
>> What could the death count been been?
>
> Oh, he probably would have done a whole lot better. The knife-wielding
> attacker stabbed 14 people and none of them are dead yet. Only two are
> critical.
>
> As Holmes and Lanza knew, if you want to rack up big numbers in a mass
> slaughter, ya' gotta have an AR and some extra magazines. They're made
> for the job.
>

Oh? They used ARs now?

I thought it was hand guns only...

[Ed Huntress]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 08:17:24 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

'Been on vacation? <g>

Holmes got off about 30 rounds with a Smith & Wesson M&P15 before his
toy magazine jammed. Lanza used a Bushmaster XM15-E2S. Those guys knew
the right tools for the job, although Holmes should have used better
judgment with the magazine. Thirty rounds is just enough to get warmed
up.

--
Ed Huntress

[STEADY EDDY]

Face it Huntie, you lost the argument.

This case is CLOSED.

Allow concealed carry on CAMPUS.

[The NAZI Party in America today is represented by the GOP]

On 4/9/2013 9:33 PM, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> Looks like the NRA has been lying to America about how guns keep
> Americans safer...and the conservative gun loons were hiding under
> their desks while liberals had to step in and tackle the suspect...
>

LOL - that is exactly what happen ! Real Americans
know GUN HUGGERS and Jesus loving REPUBLICANS
don't go to those snob colleges .. they may learn
something !

Really - It was due to all the "Gun Free Zone" signs ...
lets put the blame where is should be.We know NRA
backed terrorist, along with k00Ks, read
those signs before committing murderous crimes.

If schools, malls, public areas simply REMOVED
THOSE $10 signs ... we would all be safer.





--
--

"The great masses' receptive ability is only very limited,
their understanding is small, but their forgetfullness
is great. As a consequence of these facts, all effective
propaganda has to limit itself only to a very few points
and use them like slogans until even the very last man
is able to imagine what is intended by such a word. "


GOP party spokesman : Adolph Hitler, in Mein Kampf

[Jeff M]

Yeah, don't look behind that curtain!

There's nothing to see here, citizens, move along, that's it, keep
moving, clear the area, move along . . .

[STEADY EDDY]

Look, I CLOSED this Case. That means you do not respond. Get it!!!

[Ed Huntress]

What argument? You mean the one you imagine you're having with
someone?

>
>This case is CLOSED.

A lot like your mind, huh?

>
>Allow concealed carry on CAMPUS.

Man, I'll bet those Friday night TG parties are going to be wild and
crazy.! 'No need to screw around with those God-awful Sankey keg taps
-- just shoot a few holes in the keg and get yer mug in there!

'You want 9 mm, or .45?

--
Ed Huntress

[JohnJohnsn]

One of those who were attacked and less seriously injured stated on
the news that he wanted the Concealed Carry on Campus Bill passed by
the Texas Legislature; that way he would not have been an unarmed
victim.

But to the VLILLLDMs everywhere, the only words they will listen to
are those who speak out against guns; they don't want to hear from
those who are for having the ability to defend their own and others'
lives with a firearm.

[Richard]

On 4/10/2013 8:41 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 08:17:24 -0500, Richard<cave...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On 4/10/2013 8:01 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
>>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 07:49:11 -0500, Jeff M<NoS...@NoThanks.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 4/10/2013 7:24 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>> [snip]
>>>>>> Because guns aren't allowed on that campus. Go figger.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right. Maybe that's why he didn't have one. But you know, as the gun
>>>>> nutz frequently tell us, someone intent on mayhem will find another
>>>>> weapon if he doesn't have a gun.
>>>>>
>>>>> How did his kill ratio stack up against Adam Lanza's?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What if the killer had a firearm with a high capacity magazine?
>>>> What could the death count been been?
>>>
>>> Oh, he probably would have done a whole lot better. The knife-wielding
>>> attacker stabbed 14 people and none of them are dead yet. Only two are
>>> critical.
>>>
>>> As Holmes and Lanza knew, if you want to rack up big numbers in a mass
>>> slaughter, ya' gotta have an AR and some extra magazines. They're made
>>> for the job.
>>>
>>
>> Oh? They used ARs now?
>>
>> I thought it was hand guns only...
>
> 'Been on vacation?<g>
>

> Holmes got off about 30 rounds with a Smith& Wesson M&P15 before his

> toy magazine jammed.


Lanza used a Bushmaster XM15-E2S. Those guys knew
> the right tools for the job, although Holmes should have used better
> judgment with the magazine. Thirty rounds is just enough to get warmed
> up.

Go back and check the story again.
The Bushmaster was IN THE CAR...


>

[Ed Huntress]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 10:47:21 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>

You HAVE been on vacation -- or sailing the Seven Seas, perhaps. d8-)

No, it was not in the car. You're reading the screwed-up stories
published in the 48 hours after the shooting.

The Bushmaster was what he used to kill all of the kids and the
teachers. He also had two handguns with him, but he only used one to
shoot himself.

The gun in the car was a shotgun.

Googling it will clear it up for you in a couple of minutes.

--
Ed Huntress

[STEADY EDDY]

I closed this case pal. That is my final word.

[Ed Huntress]

Ran out of words, huh? Try turning off your caps lock. It may be
drawing too much juice.

Meantime, here's a slogan to post on the splash pages of America's cow
colleges, promoting their handgun-carry policies:

No bungs to pop
No pumps to switch
Just shoot some holes
In the son of a bitch!

--
Ed Huntress

[RD Sandman]

Richard <cave...@earthlink.net> wrote in
news:ududndcs3ct9FPjM...@earthlink.com:

No, it wasn't. A shotgun was in the car.


--

Democracy means that anyone can grow up to be President,

And anyone who doesn't grow up can be Vice President.


Sleep well, tonight.....

RD (The Sandman)

[RogerN]

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
news:dcmam8169ifph4lk8...@4ax.com...

>On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 04:03:27 -0700 (PDT), "Robert Westergrom,1900
>Harvey rd.,Wilmington,D.E" <burto...@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

>>Because guns aren't allowed on that campus. Go figger.
>
>Right. Maybe that's why he didn't have one. But you know, as the gun
>nutz frequently tell us, someone intent on mayhem will find another
>weapon if he doesn't have a gun.
>
>How did his kill ratio stack up against Adam Lanza's?
>
>--
>Ed Huntress

To maximize casualties with guns you need a liberal kill zone like Sandy
Hook Elementary. Where all the law abiding citizens are disarmed all you
have to do is get someone with an illegal gun and it's a field day, a
murderers dream, all those who could stop the killer have been disarmed by
libtards! Libtards took away the 2nd Amendment rights of the law abiding
adults at Sandy Hook elementary, libtards made it a safe place for Adam
Lanza to go and kill as many as he wanted, and then the libtards blamed the
NRA. NRA has been warning for years that if you outlaw guns, only outlaws
would have guns, that is exactly what happened at Sandy Hook elementary.
Now some retard like Precision Machinist will say something about children
with guns, in non-libtarded areas, adults protect children, even the animals
have more smarts than libtards, go try to chase a bear cub without first
"disarming" it's mother. Only humans with demented brains, brought on by
years of liberal indoctrination, can be so stupid to set up a school so that
one man can kill 26 people in 5 minutes. Now libtards will say more guns
aren't the answer, Obama's children are protected at school by people with
guns, Obama is protected by people with guns. But everyone else shouldn't
be allowed to have guns to protect themselves and the children.

Adam Lanza's mother probably foresaw the direction this country was headed
in thanks to Liberals, that's most likely the reason she felt the need for
an AR-15. A man was digging a bunker and 2 children died because the walls
caved in on them, the man didn't carry out his plan well but felt he needed
a bunker when the worst president in the history of the USA gets re-elected.
Obama claimed Bush's spending deficit was "Treasonous" got elected,
increased Bush's deficit 250%, and people still re-elected him. Obama
bought votes with taxpayer dollars, or money borrowed from China more
likely.

And now Libtards compare a man sucking another man's dick to race, how
absurd! Obama and the Clintons flip-flopped on gay marriage for the
acceptance of immorality for popularity. So libtards claim abortion is a
constitutional right, though the constitution doesn't mention it, they claim
the right to bear arms isn't a constitutional right, thought it states it
specifically. The truth is Liberals don't give a damn about the
constitution, they only want to impose their faith on others, the very thing
they claim about the Church and others. Liberals are the pot calling the
kettle black, guilty of the very act they accuse others of, but their will
they are trying to impose on the USA is unconstitutional.

RogerN

[Ed Huntress]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 15:00:45 -0500, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net>
wrote:

>"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
>news:dcmam8169ifph4lk8...@4ax.com...
>
>>On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 04:03:27 -0700 (PDT), "Robert Westergrom,1900
>>Harvey rd.,Wilmington,D.E" <burto...@gmail.com> wrote:
><snip>
>>>Because guns aren't allowed on that campus. Go figger.
>>
>>Right. Maybe that's why he didn't have one. But you know, as the gun
>>nutz frequently tell us, someone intent on mayhem will find another
>>weapon if he doesn't have a gun.
>>
>>How did his kill ratio stack up against Adam Lanza's?
>>
>>--
>>Ed Huntress
>
>To maximize casualties with guns you need a liberal kill zone like Sandy
>Hook Elementary.

To maximize casualties you need, first, a gun that will lay down a lot
of fire in a short time. That's why militaries all over the world use
them.

<snip>

>
>Adam Lanza's mother probably foresaw the direction this country was headed
>in thanks to Liberals, that's most likely the reason she felt the need for
>an AR-15.

And her foresight made it all possible.

Roger, I think you're insane.

--
Ed Huntress

[RogerN]

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message

news:8chbm8pai266qs5e8...@4ax.com...

>On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 15:00:45 -0500, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net>
>wrote:
>

<snip>

>>
>>To maximize casualties with guns you need a liberal kill zone like Sandy
>>Hook Elementary.
>
>To maximize casualties you need, first, a gun that will lay down a lot
>of fire in a short time. That's why militaries all over the world use
>them.

They didn't need this kind of gun in the Oklahoma bombing, many more were
killed in much less time. They didn't ban fertilizer or fuel.

In militaries all over the world, soldiers can't go in and kill 26 enemy
soldiers in 5 minutes because liberals haven't disarmed the enemy soldiers
yet.

><snip>
>
>>
>>Adam Lanza's mother probably foresaw the direction this country was headed
>>in thanks to Liberals, that's most likely the reason she felt the need for
>>an AR-15.
>
>And her foresight made it all possible.

So if Adam Lanza's mom hadn't bought the gun, there is no where else the kid
could have gotten his hands on a gun? How will disarming law abiding
citizens prevent criminals from getting ahold of guns? Would a person with
2 pistols and a few spare magazines be able to kill just as many kids at a
school? Would the background checks they are now passing have prevented
Adam Lanza's mother from buying an AR-15?

>Roger, I think you're insane.
>
>--
>Ed Huntress

How are you going to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals by taking
weapons away from law abiding citizens? How are you going to keep weapons
out of anyone's hands when they can be made from plumbing fittings? Are you
also going to regulate steel that could be fashioned into a firearm? And
the machine tools that can be used to make weapons? And what about Aspirin,
they can be used to make detonators for bombs. Maybe we can outlaw
metalworking, chemistry, biology, aluminum foil, matches, silver, lead-acid
batteries, stump remover, dirt that may contain Potassium Nitrate, gasoline,
propane, butane, acetylene, oxygen, diesel fuel, corn starch, anything that
could be potentially harmful.

Disarming law abiding citizens for what criminals do is as insane as taking
away your drivers license because someone else drove drunk!

RogerN

[jon_banquer]

How are we going to have a better America if you and many others keep
blaming liberals for all our problems?

[Too_Many_Tools]

> Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well I haven't heard of 20 students dead yet...but the Truth is seldom
told in Texas

TMT

[Too_Many_Tools]

On Apr 10, 8:41 am, Ed Huntress <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 08:17:24 -0500, Richard <cavel...@earthlink.net>

> Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You got to cut him some slack Ed...he is just a young gun loon in
training.

Give him a few years and dozens of more kills and he will get it
right.

TMT

[Too_Many_Tools]

On Apr 10, 10:53 am, Ed Huntress <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 10:47:21 -0500, Richard <cavel...@earthlink.net>

> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On 4/10/2013 8:41 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:

> >> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 08:17:24 -0500, Richard<cavel...@earthlink.net>

> Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

LOL..you are assuming that he can read.

TMT

[Too_Many_Tools]

On Apr 10, 11:11 am, Ed Huntress <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 09:04:16 -0700 (PDT), STEADY EDDY
>
>
>
>
>

> Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

LOL..pretty good!

TMT

[Too_Many_Tools]

> Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I think you are correct Ed...Roger is mentally ill.

And has guns.

When the new laws are in place, they will be coming for Roger and his
guns.

TMT

[Too_Many_Tools]

> blaming liberals for all our problems?- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Very good question.

For those like Roger, blaming someone is an alternative to actually
solving the problem.

If you have been watching the GOP meltdown, pointing fingers is a
favorite conservative hobby.

TMT

[Ed Huntress]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 15:36:41 -0500, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net>
wrote:

>"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
>news:8chbm8pai266qs5e8...@4ax.com...
>
>>On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 15:00:45 -0500, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net>
>>wrote:
>>
><snip>
>>>
>>>To maximize casualties with guns you need a liberal kill zone like Sandy
>>>Hook Elementary.
>>
>>To maximize casualties you need, first, a gun that will lay down a lot
>>of fire in a short time. That's why militaries all over the world use
>>them.
>
>They didn't need this kind of gun in the Oklahoma bombing, many more were
>killed in much less time. They didn't ban fertilizer or fuel.

So tighten up fertilizer sales. They've already done that, actually --
after the horse was out of the barn, so to speak.

>
>In militaries all over the world, soldiers can't go in and kill 26 enemy
>soldiers in 5 minutes because liberals haven't disarmed the enemy soldiers
>yet.

Look, let's do this once: Shall-issue states typically have CCWs among
2% - 3% of their eligible citizens. According to anecdotal comments by
police, it appears that roughly half are carrying at any given time.

The number of teachers at Sandy Hook Elementary was something close to
33. Given the normal ratio of armed CCW holders in states where they
really like their guns, how many teachers would normally be armed,
without coercion? Zero.

But let's say that Roger and the NRA has coerced two of them to be
armed -- a huge increase over the normal percentage of armed adults.

There are 27 classrooms in the "new" Sandy Hook Elementary. I can't
find data on how many were in the old one. Lanza did most of his
shooting in two classrooms.

Now, even the numeracy-challenged will realize that the chance one of
the two coerced, gun-toting teachers was in that classroom is
extremely small. Furthermore, anyone with any sense knows that
teachers in the other classrooms, armed or not, are going to protect
their kids. They aren't going to go wandering around the halls waving
a gun. My wife is a special-ed elementary teacher. I can assure you
about what they would do. They're going to protect the kids in their
room -- they're like family.

Say one does come out in the hall. Lanze shot everyone who he saw in
the hallways, according to preliminary reports. He's got an AR and
he's already been killing. He has the upper hand.

So your Walter Mitty fantasy is a crock of shit. There won't be more
than one or two guns in that school. Those teachers are not delusional
hotshots who think they're Jeff Cooper. Leave that for the
fantasy-weavers like you.

>
>><snip>
>>
>>>
>>>Adam Lanza's mother probably foresaw the direction this country was headed
>>>in thanks to Liberals, that's most likely the reason she felt the need for
>>>an AR-15.
>>
>>And her foresight made it all possible.
>
>So if Adam Lanza's mom hadn't bought the gun, there is no where else the kid
>could have gotten his hands on a gun?

Not likely. You seem to think he was a rational guy.

> How will disarming law abiding
>citizens prevent criminals from getting ahold of guns?

Whose idea is that?

> Would a person with
>2 pistols and a few spare magazines be able to kill just as many kids at a
>school?

Not likely. 12 kids escaped at one point while he changed magazines.

>Would the background checks they are now passing have prevented
>Adam Lanza's mother from buying an AR-15?

Nope. Frankly, I think his mother was a little nuts, from what we've
learned.

>
>>Roger, I think you're insane.
>>
>>--
>>Ed Huntress
>
>How are you going to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals by taking
>weapons away from law abiding citizens?

What weapons do you think they're going to take away?

> How are you going to keep weapons
>out of anyone's hands when they can be made from plumbing fittings?

Do you think Adam Lanza could make an AR out of plumbing fittings? You
can hardly make one yourself, so far. And you have machine tools.

> Are you
>also going to regulate steel that could be fashioned into a firearm?

Tell you what: If the next mass murderer has the ability and the tools
to make an AR out of barstock, I'll revise my thinking. As it is, I
think you're getting deeper into nutball territory.

>And
>the machine tools that can be used to make weapons?

How many mass murderers have made their guns with their machine tools?

> And what about Aspirin,
>they can be used to make detonators for bombs. Maybe we can outlaw
>metalworking, chemistry, biology, aluminum foil, matches, silver, lead-acid
>batteries, stump remover, dirt that may contain Potassium Nitrate, gasoline,
>propane, butane, acetylene, oxygen, diesel fuel, corn starch, anything that
>could be potentially harmful.

There's the evidence that you're a little nuts. You don't seem to know
the difference between an AR and oxygen.

Roger, nearly anyone can buy an AR. The people who want them are
people like you. You've made your murder fantasies abundantly clear in
previous posts. I don't trust you. Ok?

>
>Disarming law abiding citizens for what criminals do is as insane as taking
>away your drivers license because someone else drove drunk!

When you figure out where guns in the hands of criminals and nutballs
come from, come on back and we'll try again. Here's a clue: They
aren't making them out of plumbing fittings. They get them from people
who obtain them legally -- people like you, for example.

I'm not going through this again, so if you want to argue about it,
good luck finding someone who will.

--
Ed Huntress


>
>RogerN
>

[Richard]

On 4/10/2013 10:53 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
>
>> Lanza used a Bushmaster XM15-E2S. Those guys knew
>>> the right tools for the job, although Holmes should have used better
>>> judgment with the magazine. Thirty rounds is just enough to get warmed
>>> up.
>>
>> Go back and check the story again.
>> The Bushmaster was IN THE CAR...
>
> You HAVE been on vacation -- or sailing the Seven Seas, perhaps. d8-)
>
> No, it was not in the car. You're reading the screwed-up stories
> published in the 48 hours after the shooting.
>
> The Bushmaster was what he used to kill all of the kids and the
> teachers. He also had two handguns with him, but he only used one to
> shoot himself.
>
> The gun in the car was a shotgun.
>
> Googling it will clear it up for you in a couple of minutes.
>

Ok. I was wrong. You got me that time.

Yeah, I don't watch TV, so I guess I missed the revisions.

[Too_Many_Tools]

> >RogerN- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Ed...good analysis of the situation...including Roger.

In regards to your wife and her profession, tell her "Thanks"...for
being the caring person she obviously is...society is better because
of it.

TMT

[Ed Huntress]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 16:46:55 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

What's this "got me"? I'm not Gunner and you're not calling me stupid.
So you and I just shared some information. d8-)

>
>Yeah, I don't watch TV, so I guess I missed the revisions.

Hmmm...

--
Ed Huntress

[Jeff M]

On 4/10/2013 4:46 PM, Richard wrote:
> On 4/10/2013 10:53 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:

[snip]

>> Googling it will clear it up for you in a couple of minutes.
>>
> Ok. I was wrong. You got me that time.

People who can say that are increasingly rare, especially here. It
merits respect.

[Richard]

On 4/10/2013 4:05 PM, Too_Many_Tools babbled again, foolishly:

Let me see if I've got this straight?

The only people against gun control are tight wing conservative loons?
So all those street gang members who do the drive by shooting, the
drug dealers, all those tattooed guys in prison, and the rappers
shooting each other - are all REPUBLICANS?

[Richard]

On 4/10/2013 3:56 PM, jon_banquer wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> <snip>

>>
> How are we going to have a better America if you and many others keep
> blaming liberals for all our problems?

We're not...

The better America was last century.

[Ed Huntress]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 17:02:29 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

The only thing criminals would object to are things that would put a
squeeze on their sources of supply: tracking down strawman purchasers
to take a lot of them out of business, and requiring gun owners to
apply reasonable security so they can't steal guns out of nightstands.

And they know THOSE things won't happen. Straw purchasers can rarely
be tracked down, since there are no records kept of their private
sales, no laws requiring them to do a background check, and no
penalties for "losing" a gun or having it stolen.

It's a piece of cake. Given the laws we have, criminals have no
worries about getting guns. And who is protecting us against laws that
might work?

Draw your own conclusions.

--
Ed Huntress

[RogerN]

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message

news:ncjbm85oer3p4tf2e...@4ax.com...

>On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 15:36:41 -0500, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net>
>wrote:
>

<snip>

>>
>>Disarming law abiding citizens for what criminals do is as insane as
>>taking
>>away your drivers license because someone else drove drunk!
>
>When you figure out where guns in the hands of criminals and nutballs
>come from, come on back and we'll try again. Here's a clue: They
>aren't making them out of plumbing fittings. They get them from people
>who obtain them legally -- people like you, for example.
>
>I'm not going through this again, so if you want to argue about it,
>good luck finding someone who will.
>
>--
>Ed Huntress

I don't blame you, your argument wasn't very good.

If someone in the school was armed, perhaps the principal or custodian, why
would they walk openly down the hall with a nut killing everyone he saw.
They'd take cover, put their laser dot on the killer coming down the hall,
and Lanza would have been stopped.

Guns are available here, that's why they aren't making them with machine
tools, take away guns and they'll make them with machine tools. Look it up,
there's books for making machine guns out of plumbing fittings and basic
tools. Maybe the next Adam Lanza will get his assault weapon from Mexican
drug cartel supplied by Obama. Many have died from the weapons Obama
provided to the Mexican drug cartel but you won't hear it on the mainstream
media, Obama's ministry of propaganda. That's a big part of the left-wing
problem, you have to think beyond your next move, who knew Obama's assault
on the 2nd Amendment would trigger gun and ammo sales to record highs?
Everyone but a libtard!

You mentioned the children that got away when changing magazines, if Lanza
had 2 pistols, one could have been ready to fire while the other was needing
a magazine change, he could have held them with one pistol while reloading
the 2nd.

When they ban the "assault weapons", the assault weapon version of the AR is
a select fire weapon that's already banned, people will print them out,
those who want to kill will find other weapons, some won't be as deadly,
like the knife stabbings, some will be more destructive, like bombs. The
problem is the people that want to kill innocent people, like the
pro-abortion crowd and other deranged killers, they want to murder and will
use whatever means they can to murder. Like you admit yourself, take away a
woman's legal right to kill her unborn child, she'll use a coat hanger.

The left-wing movement as a whole isn't about upholding the constitution or
most of the Democrat politicians, and some Republicans, would already be in
prison. The left-wing movement is about cramming their agenda down our
throats in an unconstitutional manner, and for that I hope they have reason
to fear for their life. Notice that many of the anti-gun crowd have guns or
are protected by people that have guns, hypocrites.

To ask a ToolTard type question, if Guns are so bad, why do police use them?

As far as machining my receiver, my shop is 5 miles away so I don't spend
much time there, I got my DRO scale replaced, it's working now, got the
power fixed, next is machining the side plates to sandwich the receiver to
fit in the vise, then drill & ream 3 holes, mill a pocket 1.249" +/-0.010
deep. In the mean time I have got a progressive reloading press working, I
can crank out a ready to fire cartridge for every pull of the handle! I
have over 200 rounds ready to fire and many more on the way! Rural King, a
local farm & hardware chain, has AR-15 30 round magazines for sale, never
seen them there before. All thanks to Obama Assault Weapon Sales!

RogerN

[Tom Gardner]

On 4/10/2013 9:01 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 07:49:11 -0500, Jeff M <NoS...@NoThanks.org>
> wrote:
>

>> On 4/10/2013 7:24 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
>> [snip]

>>>> Because guns aren't allowed on that campus. Go figger.
>>>
>>> Right. Maybe that's why he didn't have one. But you know, as the gun
>>> nutz frequently tell us, someone intent on mayhem will find another
>>> weapon if he doesn't have a gun.
>>>
>>> How did his kill ratio stack up against Adam Lanza's?
>>
>>

>> What if the killer had a firearm with a high capacity magazine?
>> What could the death count been been?
>
> Oh, he probably would have done a whole lot better. The knife-wielding
> attacker stabbed 14 people and none of them are dead yet. Only two are
> critical.
>
> As Holmes and Lanza knew, if you want to rack up big numbers in a mass
> slaughter, ya' gotta have an AR and some extra magazines. They're made
> for the job.
>

If only knives were outlawed, there wouldn't have been any injuries! I
have a better idea! Why don't we outlaw harming other people with ANY
weapon or even fists or feet? Problem solved!

[jon_banquer]

I wonder if my outlook on life would be better if I got involved with
something like vertical farming:

http://www.verticalfarm.com/

[Scout]

"jon_banquer" <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c5609090-28cf-42da...@lp1g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...

Well I hope to get the contract for vertical farming on the East and West
wings of the Capital Building, and the White House in DC.

I think a pig farm would fit right in at each of those locations
particularly if the air inlets are on the roof.

[Scout]

"Tom Gardner" <Mars@Tacks> wrote in message
news:xNWdnVWPTrnYdfjM...@giganews.com...

We have that but they won't obey the law.

Hmm... maybe if we passed a law that says they have to obey the law that
would work?

[Ed Huntress]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 17:27:19 -0500, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net>
wrote:

>"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
>news:ncjbm85oer3p4tf2e...@4ax.com...
>
>>On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 15:36:41 -0500, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net>
>>wrote:
>>
><snip>
>>>
>>>Disarming law abiding citizens for what criminals do is as insane as
>>>taking
>>>away your drivers license because someone else drove drunk!
>>
>>When you figure out where guns in the hands of criminals and nutballs
>>come from, come on back and we'll try again. Here's a clue: They
>>aren't making them out of plumbing fittings. They get them from people
>>who obtain them legally -- people like you, for example.
>>
>>I'm not going through this again, so if you want to argue about it,
>>good luck finding someone who will.
>>
>>--
>>Ed Huntress
>
>I don't blame you, your argument wasn't very good.
>
>If someone in the school was armed, perhaps the principal or custodian, why
>would they walk openly down the hall with a nut killing everyone he saw.
>They'd take cover, put their laser dot on the killer coming down the hall,
>and Lanza would have been stopped.

He didn't "come down the hall." He shot almost all of those kids in
two adjacent classrooms. He was the one who shot people *he* saw in
the hall.

>
>Guns are available here, that's why they aren't making them with machine
>tools, take away guns and they'll make them with machine tools.

Horseshit. Another paranoid fantasy.

> Look it up,
>there's books for making machine guns out of plumbing fittings and basic
>tools.

I have one I bought at a gun show 15 years ago. Your average schiz is
not going to build one.

> Maybe the next Adam Lanza will get his assault weapon from Mexican
>drug cartel supplied by Obama.

You're a loon, Roger.

> Many have died from the weapons Obama
>provided to the Mexican drug cartel but you won't hear it on the mainstream
>media, Obama's ministry of propaganda.

Of course! You get it by shortwave in the microchip they planted in
your wisdom tooth.

>That's a big part of the left-wing
>problem, you have to think beyond your next move, who knew Obama's assault
>on the 2nd Amendment would trigger gun and ammo sales to record highs?

Anyone with half a brain or more knew that there would be a rush on
guns and ammo if a northern Democrat was elected. The NRA got to you
and melted your mind. I'm STILL getting that crap. Here's the lead to
the one from two days ago:

"Dear NRA Member:

"The U.S. Senate is set to act on anti-gun legislation as early as
this week. These proposals are the latest attempt by anti-gun Senators
to erode our Second Amendment rights..."

So now you fools are paying ridiculous prices because you're like
puppets on a string. There would be no ammo shortage if you didn't
freak out.

It's like a run on a bank at a mental institution.

>Everyone but a libtard!

You're the fool who's paying for your paranoid fantasy, Roger.

>
>You mentioned the children that got away when changing magazines, if Lanza
>had 2 pistols, one could have been ready to fire while the other was needing
>a magazine change, he could have held them with one pistol while reloading
>the 2nd.

Jesus. A one-handed magazine change by a crazed lunatic. I'm sure that
would have worked just fine. It worked so well for Jared Loughner,
with just one gun to handle....

>
>When they ban the "assault weapons", the assault weapon version of the AR is
>a select fire weapon that's already banned, people will print them out,
>those who want to kill will find other weapons, some won't be as deadly,
>like the knife stabbings, some will be more destructive, like bombs. The
>problem is the people that want to kill innocent people, like the
>pro-abortion crowd and other deranged killers, they want to murder and will
>use whatever means they can to murder. Like you admit yourself, take away a
>woman's legal right to kill her unborn child, she'll use a coat hanger.

Only in your deranged mind. Gestating fetuses are not "people,"
innocent or otherwise.

And there is no constitutional right to shoot actual children.

>
>The left-wing movement as a whole isn't about upholding the constitution or
>most of the Democrat politicians, and some Republicans, would already be in
>prison.

How would you know? You apparently have never read it.

>The left-wing movement is about cramming their agenda down our
>throats in an unconstitutional manner, and for that I hope they have reason
>to fear for their life.

By whom? You?

> Notice that many of the anti-gun crowd have guns or
>are protected by people that have guns, hypocrites.

They need protection from people like you. You have guns and you're a
grenade ready to go off.

>
>To ask a ToolTard type question, if Guns are so bad, why do police use them?

To protect people from gun nutz who want to kill everyone who voted
for Obama.

>
>As far as machining my receiver, my shop is 5 miles away so I don't spend
>much time there, I got my DRO scale replaced, it's working now, got the
>power fixed, next is machining the side plates to sandwich the receiver to
>fit in the vise, then drill & ream 3 holes, mill a pocket 1.249" +/-0.010
>deep. In the mean time I have got a progressive reloading press working, I
>can crank out a ready to fire cartridge for every pull of the handle! I
>have over 200 rounds ready to fire and many more on the way! Rural King, a
>local farm & hardware chain, has AR-15 30 round magazines for sale, never
>seen them there before. All thanks to Obama Assault Weapon Sales!

And you're the nut who makes people want to ban them. The more we
talk, Roger, the freakier it gets.

--
Ed Huntress

[Ed Huntress]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 18:31:29 -0400, Tom Gardner <Mars@Tacks> wrote:

>On 4/10/2013 9:01 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 07:49:11 -0500, Jeff M <NoS...@NoThanks.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/10/2013 7:24 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
>>> [snip]
>>>>> Because guns aren't allowed on that campus. Go figger.
>>>>
>>>> Right. Maybe that's why he didn't have one. But you know, as the gun
>>>> nutz frequently tell us, someone intent on mayhem will find another
>>>> weapon if he doesn't have a gun.
>>>>
>>>> How did his kill ratio stack up against Adam Lanza's?
>>>
>>>
>>> What if the killer had a firearm with a high capacity magazine?
>>> What could the death count been been?
>>
>> Oh, he probably would have done a whole lot better. The knife-wielding
>> attacker stabbed 14 people and none of them are dead yet. Only two are
>> critical.
>>
>> As Holmes and Lanza knew, if you want to rack up big numbers in a mass
>> slaughter, ya' gotta have an AR and some extra magazines. They're made
>> for the job.
>>
>
>If only knives were outlawed, there wouldn't have been any injuries!

How many did he kill? Did he match Lanza?

>I
>have a better idea! Why don't we outlaw harming other people with ANY
>weapon or even fists or feet? Problem solved!

Dumb, Tom. You can do better than that.

--
Ed Huntress

[Richard]

Fast and Furious.

[Ed Huntress]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 18:45:53 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>

What's the connection?

--
Ed Huntress

[JohnJohnsn]

On Apr 10, 3:56 pm, jon_banquer <jonbanq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>

> On Apr 10, 1:36 pm, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:
>
>>"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
>> news:8chbm8pai266qs5e8...@4ax.com...
>
>>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 15:00:45 -0500, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net>
>>> wrote:
>
>> <snip>
>
>>>> To maximize casualties with guns you need a liberal kill zone like
>>>> Sandy Hook Elementary.
>
>>> To maximize casualties you need, first, a gun that will lay down a lot
>>> of fire in a short time. That's why militaries all over the world use
>>> them.
>
>> They didn't need this kind of gun in the Oklahoma bombing, many more
>> were killed in much less time. They didn't ban fertilizer or fuel.
>
>> In militaries all over the world, soldiers can't go in and kill 26 enemy
>> soldiers in 5 minutes because liberals haven't disarmed the enemy
>> soldiers yet.
>
>>><snip>
>
>>>> Adam Lanza's mother probably foresaw the direction this country was
>>>> headed in thanks to Liberals, that's most likely the reason she felt the
>>>> need for an AR-15.
>
>>> And her foresight made it all possible.
>

>> So if Adam Lanza's mom hadn't bought the gun, there is nowhere else the
>> kid could have gotten his hands on a gun? How will disarming law-abiding

>> citizens prevent criminals from getting ahold of guns? Would a person with
>> 2 pistols and a few spare magazines be able to kill just as many kids at a
>> school? Would the background checks they are now passing have prevented
>> Adam Lanza's mother from buying an AR-15?
>
>>> Roger, I think you're insane.
>>>--
>>> Ed Huntress
>
>> How are you going to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals by taking
>> weapons away from law abiding citizens? How are you going to keep weapons
>> out of anyone's hands when they can be made from plumbing fittings?
>> Are you also going to regulate steel that could be fashioned into a firearm?
>> And the machine tools that can be used to make weapons?
>> And what about Aspirin, they can be used to make detonators for bombs.
>> Maybe we can outlaw metalworking, chemistry, biology, aluminum foil,
>> matches, silver, lead-acid batteries, stump remover, dirt that may contain
>> Potassium Nitrate, gasoline, propane, butane, acetylene, oxygen, diesel fuel,
>> corn starch, anything that could be potentially harmful.
>

>> Disarming law-abiding citizens for what criminals do is as insane as taking

>> away your drivers license because someone else drove drunk!
>
>> RogerN
>
> How are we going to have a better America if you and many others keep
> blaming liberals for all our problems?
>

Well, Jon; since the Gun Control Shoe fits the Liberal foot so
well....

---
“Why is it that every time a lunatic uses a firearm to commit an
atrocity the gun-control fanatics want to punish the millions of gun
owners that DIDN'T do it?!?!?”
--Me, 18 Dec 2012...

“Explain how you make an innocent person `more safe' by disarming the
innocent persons, while leaving the criminal element fully-armed¹???”
--Also Me
[¹ Or in the case of `Operation Fast & Furious' and `Operation
Fearless Distributing', actually ARMING them!!!]

“The 2nd Amendment isn't about hunting -- it's about preventing a
return to America of tyranny from an oppressive governnent.”
--Me, 27 Feb 2013

“Semi-automatic Assault Weapons: the modern-day `musket' of the
Founding Fathers”
--Me, 13 Mar 2013

[Richard]

Straw man gun running?

Buy a government agency?

THOUSANDS of guns...

Why should I submit to laws that our government ignores?

[Richard]

On 4/10/2013 7:13 PM, JohnJohnsn wrote:

Snipped - presentation is 90% of the job!

> Well, Jon; since the Gun Control Shoe fits the Liberal foot so
> well....
>
> ---

> �Why is it that every time a lunatic uses a firearm to commit an

> atrocity the gun-control fanatics want to punish the millions of gun

> owners that DIDN'T do it?!?!?�
> --Me, 18 Dec 2012...
>
> �Explain how you make an innocent person `more safe' by disarming the
> innocent persons, while leaving the criminal element fully-armed�???�
> --Also Me
> [� Or in the case of `Operation Fast& Furious' and `Operation

> Fearless Distributing', actually ARMING them!!!]
>

> �The 2nd Amendment isn't about hunting -- it's about preventing a
> return to America of tyranny from an oppressive governnent.�
> --Me, 27 Feb 2013
>
> �Semi-automatic Assault Weapons: the modern-day `musket' of the
> Founding Fathers�
> --Me, 13 Mar 2013

[Richard]

I'll pay the price, Ed.

I have before.

Yeah, I know. You are talking about gun lons.

But I'm talking about your freedom of speech.

[JohnJohnsn]

The three " people *he* saw in the hall;" and the first three he shot
after gaining entry to the school by shooting out the glass in the
locked front door; were UNARMED school administrators school principal
Dawn Hochsprung, school psychologist Mary Sherlach and vice principal
Natalie Hammond.

Had any of these three been armed and have attended one of the several
"Dealing With Active Shooters Training For School Teachers" classes
available, Adam Lanza would have been "approaching room temperature"
by the time the Newtown PD officers arrived; as the last thing he ever
expected; and what he did not incur; was any armed personnel being
there and taking steps to stop him in his tracks.

As badly as you want to avoid it, Ed; the FACT is that the Democrat-
Congress-passed "Gun-Free School Zone Act" is what has killed more
students of all ages than any other gun control law passed thusfar.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum

---
“Why is it that every time a lunatic uses a firearm to commit an

atrocity the gun-control fanatics want to punish the millions of gun

owners that DIDN'T do it?!?!?”
--Me, 18 Dec 2012...

“Explain how you make an innocent person `more safe' by disarming the
innocent persons, while leaving the criminal element fully-armed¹???”
--Also Me
[¹ Or in the case of `Operation Fast & Furious' and `Operation

Fearless Distributing', actually ARMING them!!!]

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and
bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny
in government."
-- Thomas Jefferson

[Ed Huntress]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 19:29:57 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>

Across national borders -- what does that have to do with domestic
strawman sales?

>
>Buy a government agency?
>
>THOUSANDS of guns...
>
>Why should I submit to laws that our government ignores?

That was a sting gone bad, Richard. It was ill-conceived and
ill-managed. But it had NO relationship to the criminal strawman
purchases that we're talking about here. These are intentional
criminal activities. That was a sting by law enforcement agencies,
structurally a lot like many drug stings and money-laundering stings
the US government has run over the years.

--
Ed Huntress

[Ed Huntress]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 19:33:04 -0500, Richard <cave...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

With no evidence of the post you're responding to, I don't have the
slightest idea of what you're talking about. If you hadn't said "Ed,"
I wouldn't even know it was directed to me.

--
Ed Huntress

[Ed Huntress]

>available, Adam Lanza would have...

...left them dead on the floor before they could remember where they
left their gun.

The unreality of these ideas is almost beyond imagination. So a school
teacher attends a class, and, say, eight years later some
murder/suicide busts through the glass entrance with his AR up and his
finger on the trigger, and you think this "armed teacher" is going to
shoot him first.

I think you're nuts.

--
Ed Huntress

[Too_Many_Tools]

Well both groups are for the free market economy...and damn the
consequences to society.

And they both are against gun control...so it would seem that they
have much in common.

Hmm...I wonder where that gang banging rapper Sarah Palin has her
Aryan Nations tatoo?

TMT

[dca...@krl.org]

On Apr 10, 9:02 pm, Ed Huntress <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:



> The unreality of these ideas is almost beyond imagination. So a school
> teacher attends a class, and, say, eight years later some
> murder/suicide busts through the glass entrance with his AR up and his
> finger on the trigger, and you think this "armed teacher" is going to
> shoot him first.
>
> I think you're nuts.
>
> --
> Ed Huntress
>

> >As badly as you want to avoid it, Ed; the FACT is that the Democrat-
> >Congress-passed "Gun-Free School Zone Act" is what has killed more
> >students of all ages than any other gun control law passed thusfar.
>
> >Quod Erat Demonstrandum
>

Are you saying that after eight years of not firing a gun that one
forgets how to shoot? There have been periods where I did no
shooting, and yet I did not forget how.

So how many lives has the "Gun-Free School Zone Act" saved? My
estimate is about minus 100.

I have no illusions that armed teachers will shoot homicidal psychos.
But al least we should not be advertising that schools are a place
where there will not be any opposition.

My thought is that every school should have a gun safe where there
might be a gun. Let the psychos worry about which schools actually
have any guns in the safe. And maybe have a reward for any school
employee that shoots a killer.


Dan

[Too_Many_Tools]

> Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

I think we are seeing why Roger's exwife dumped his sorry ass...the
loon is crazy.

TMT

[RogerN]

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message

news:dl2cm8hi4rivte8d2...@4ax.com...

>On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 17:39:21 -0700 (PDT), JohnJohnsn
><TopCo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>

<snip>

>>The three " people *he* saw in the hall;" and the first three he shot
>>after gaining entry to the school by shooting out the glass in the
>>locked front door; were UNARMED school administrators school principal
>>Dawn Hochsprung, school psychologist Mary Sherlach and vice principal
>>Natalie Hammond.
>>
>>Had any of these three been armed and have attended one of the several
>>"Dealing With Active Shooters Training For School Teachers" classes
>>available, Adam Lanza would have...
>
>...left them dead on the floor before they could remember where they
>left their gun.
>
>The unreality of these ideas is almost beyond imagination. So a school
>teacher attends a class, and, say, eight years later some
>murder/suicide busts through the glass entrance with his AR up and his
>finger on the trigger, and you think this "armed teacher" is going to
>shoot him first.
>
>I think you're nuts.
>
>--
>Ed Huntress

Speaking of unreality of ideas.... Lanza broke in the door without anyone
knowing? If they had a gun he could have been taken out as soon as he got
the door open. Even if he shot someone with the "poodle shooter" first,
they could have lived long enough to put a much larger bullet in Lanza. If
they were allowed to have guns in the school, Lanza might have never tried
it in the first place, he could have been shot before every getting in the
front door.

You try to think of way that it wouldn't have worked or could have failed,
the person committing the crime would have been trying to make it work, 100%
opposite of your goal. If I had 2 pistols and one ran out of ammo, I could
swap it for the second, pocket the empty gun, and insert a new magazine with
one hand, holding the gun in my pocket or holster. Try it, put an semi-auto
pistol in your pocket grab a magazine, and see if you can get the magazine
in the pistol with one hand.

The AR rifle has a larger magazine than their pistol would have but it is
larger, heavier, has more inertia, while he's aiming at the kids he could
have been shot by someone competent with a pistol.

Then you have your unreality of 8 years since training, a person carrying a
gun in the school for the protection of the children would likely be out
practicing often and could take refresher courses every year. Until last
renewal, my FOID card expired every 5 years or so IIRC. You put together a
straw man argument where a person carrying, or having access to a gun in a
school situation having 8 years since they took the class and claim others
are being unreal? Hey, might as well have the musket rusted up too, while
you're making up crazy ideas of how it could fail. OK, so they light the
fuse and can't keep the canon aimed at Lanza, is that ridiculous enough for
you?

Why are Obama's kids protected at school by people with guns, since you
claim they are so completely ineffective? According to you, Adam Lanza with
his poodle shooter could probably defeat the entire US Army.

The truth is that the leftist Nazi's set up schools to be a safe place for
murderers to kill children.

On Abortion, you probably didn't realize this is going on now, lame stream
news ignores it, but what's your position if a child is born due to a
botched abortion? So it's not a child till it's born, well, it gets born in
the process of an abortion, should doctors attempt to save the newborn
child? Obama says let it die, don't attempt to save the life. So now it's
a living, born, human being, Obama says let a person die instead of giving
it medical attention.

RogerN

[Richard]

Sorry, Ed.
I was thinking of writing something but decided not to,
and then clicked the wrong button.

[Richard]

Roger,

I'm sorry, guy.
But you are talking about something you've obviously never had to do.

Take a break.
Have a drink.
Get laid.

But for Pete sake, turn off the television.

[JohnJohnsn]

On Apr 10, 8:02 pm, Ed Huntless <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 17:39:21 -0700 (PDT), JohnJohnsn
> <TopCop1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Apr 10, 6:44 pm, Ed Huntress <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 17:27:19 -0500, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net>
>>> wrote:
>
>>>>"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
>>>> news:ncjbm85oer3p4tf2e...@4ax.com...
>
>>>>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 15:36:41 -0500, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>
>>>> <snip>
>

>>>>>> Disarming law-abiding citizens for what criminals do is as insane as

>>>>>> taking away your drivers license because someone else drove drunk!
>
>>>>> When you figure out where guns in the hands of criminals and nutballs
>>>>> come from, come on back and we'll try again. Here's a clue: They
>>>>> aren't making them out of plumbing fittings. They get them from people
>>>>> who obtain them legally -- people like you, for example.
>

Non sequitur, Ed: many are obtained from criminals who stole them from
people who obtained them legally; or even from burglarizing gun stores
AND/OR stealing them from the police themselves.

But we don't see you advocating taking guns away from the police
because _they_ improperly handle them; do we, Ed?

BTW, Ed: the guns they usually steal from the police are _true_
"assault rifles" -- machine guns (MP5s and M16s)!

>
>>>>> I'm not going through this again, so if you want to argue about it,
>>>>> good luck finding someone who will.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ed Huntress
>
>>>> I don't blame you, your argument wasn't very good.
>
>>>> If someone in the school was armed, perhaps the principal or custodian,
>>>> why would they walk openly down the hall with a nut killing everyone he
>>>> saw. They'd take cover, put their laser dot on the killer coming down the
>>>> hall, and Lanza would have been stopped.
>
>>> He didn't "come down the hall." He shot almost all of those kids in
>>> two adjacent classrooms. He was the one who shot people *he* saw
>>> in the hall.
>
>> The three "people *he* saw in the hall;" and the first three he shot
>> after gaining entry to the school by shooting out the glass in the
>> locked front door; were UNARMED school administrators school principal
>> Dawn Hochsprung, school psychologist Mary Sherlach and vice principal
>> Natalie Hammond.
>

I failed to note here that they had made an unarmed attempt to stop
him before he got past the Principal's Office and into the schoolroom
area.

Hochsprung and Sherlach were killed outright: Hammond survuved her
wounds.

But the TRIED, Ed/

>
>> Had any of these three been armed and have attended one of the several
>>"Dealing With Active Shooters Training For School Teachers" classes
>> available, Adam Lanza would have...
>
> ...left them dead on the floor before they could remember where they
> left their gun.
>

Are you _really_ so STUPID as to believe a person who is trained in
how to deal with an "Active Shooter," after hearing the gunfire of his
gaining entry through the locked door, is going to go out to meet him
and NOT take their firearm with them???

Well; I guess that is actually a rhetorical question; seeing as how
you've _already_ proven yourself _to_ being that stupid!

>
> The unreality of these ideas is almost beyond imagination.
>

The REALITY is that what we currentlly are doing has proven to be an
utter, dismal FAILURE at protecting the innocents in schools, Ed.

And yet you want to continue doing it that way.

"Insanity {is} doing the same thing over and over again and expecting
different results."
--Albert Einstein

That also applies to all you VLILLLDMs constantly trying to change
human nature legislatively: especially WRT more and More and MORE gun
control laws; seeing as how Man chose to violate the "Original Ten."
>
> So a school teacher attends a class, and, say, eight years later...
>
Unrealistic strawman argument, Ed:

...after attending and graduating from their MANDATORY annual
refresher and recertification courses SEVEN TIMES, Ed.

Or do you believe that those NPD officers _never_ went through
recertification and requalification with THEIR firearms?

Did you forget that you're trying to bullshit a TCLEOSE- and NRA-
certified Police Firearms Instructor here, Ed?

Of COURSE teachers, administrators, mechanics, janitors; i.e.: any
school personnel who: 1) obtains a Concealed Handgun License (which in
itself entails a state police and FBI background check); 2) passes the
mandatory police officer and armed private security officer-required
psychological testing; and 3) attends and passes one of the
aforementioned "Active Shooter" classes would; just like the
PooooLeese; have to recert and requal, too: at the minimum_ annually.
>_
> ...some murder/suicide busts through the glass entrance with his

> AR up and his finger on the trigger, and you think this "armed teacher"
> is going to shoot him first.
>

Sure, Ed. After all; he isn't expecting them to be armed and willing
to take him out BEFORE he begins his killing spree.

>
> I think you're nuts.
>

And we _know_ that you are a VLILLLDM Gun Control Quisling Protagonist
and Propagandist, Ed.

You have proven it over, and Over, and OVER AGAIN in this very news
group.
>
>> ...been "approaching room temperature" by the time the Newtown PD
>> officers arrived; as the last thing he everexpected; and what he did not

>> incur; was any armed personnel being there and taking steps to stop him
>> in his tracks.
>
>> As badly as you want to avoid it, Ed; the FACT is that the Democrat-
>> Congress-passed "Gun-Free School Zone Act" is what has killed more
>> students of all ages than any other gun control law passed thusfar.
>
>> Quod Erat Demonstrandum
>

And Ed "demonstrated" it yet again.

[Ed Huntress]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 21:24:20 -0500, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net>
wrote:

Not the door. The glass "sidelite." My wife's school is arranged the
same way.

>If they had a gun he could have been taken out as soon as he got
>the door open. Even if he shot someone with the "poodle shooter" first,
>they could have lived long enough to put a much larger bullet in Lanza.

Puleeze. Lanza shot 30 people, including himself. 28 of them died.

>If
>they were allowed to have guns in the school, Lanza might have never tried
>it in the first place, he could have been shot before every getting in the
>front door.

He might never have tried in the first place. But it doesn't seem
likely. He came in to die, and well as to kill. He shot himself.

As for shooting him first -- pure fantasy, IMO.

Where were these teachers' guns, Roger? Do they wear shoulder holsters
every day, every year, year after year? Outside of their blouses?

This entire scenario that you're describing is completely unrealistic.
In schools where they have a violence problem, they usually have armed
security. Columbine had armed security. It did not help.

In the average suburban school in a nice neighborhood, like Sandy
Hook, the mean time between shootings, as I guesstimated in an earlier
post, is 135,000 years. <g> That's 135,000 schools in the US, with
perhaps one of these shootings per year. It's a guess, but you get the
idea. If I'm off by a factor of ten, it's once every 13,500 years. And
so on.

With ratios like that, readiness will lapse and even the remote
chances of a gun being misused or causing accidental injuries will
exceed the statistical chance of using it for some defensive purpose;
in other words, you will create more trouble than you solve.

I recognize the frustration that drives this point of view, and I
share the idea that we have a right to self-defense with a gun. But
the scenarios we're hearing in this thread are wildly unrealistic.
They're a combination of wishful thinking and a desire to control the
situation.

We can't control the situation. Armed teachers won't do it. Armed,
professional security might do it, but are we up for having them in
every school? I don't think so.

We have always had untreated psychotics. We have always had classrooms
full of kids. We have always had guns. If you want to deal with this
situation, it seems like it would be smarter to figure out what has
changed rather than to delude ourselves that armed teachers would
solve the problem. It seems so unlikely that it's not the result of
any serious analysis of the total situation.

>
>You try to think of way that it wouldn't have worked or could have failed,
>the person committing the crime would have been trying to make it work, 100%
>opposite of your goal. If I had 2 pistols and one ran out of ammo, I could
>swap it for the second, pocket the empty gun, and insert a new magazine with
>one hand, holding the gun in my pocket or holster. Try it, put an semi-auto
>pistol in your pocket grab a magazine, and see if you can get the magazine
>in the pistol with one hand.

This is what I mean by the unreality of your scenarios. What you're
describing isn't what they've been doing. What they're doing is using
30-round magazines.

Whether they could manage the two-gun, one-hand-magazine swap under
extreme stress is unknown. But they don't have to. They can buy
30-round magazines.

>
>The AR rifle has a larger magazine than their pistol would have but it is
>larger, heavier, has more inertia, while he's aiming at the kids he could
>have been shot by someone competent with a pistol.

First, kill the adults. He'd know to do that, and he'd only encounter
them one at a time. In fact, he *did* kill some adults first. They're
the obvious target. And come in aggressively. You'll have the teachers
fumbling for their purse clasps while you put the second and third
bullets through them.

That's why they use ARs. It's not far from the reason you're building
one, right? And it's why you want 30-round magazines -- to stroke
while you're engaging your fantasies.

>
>Then you have your unreality of 8 years since training, a person carrying a
>gun in the school for the protection of the children would likely be out
>practicing often and could take refresher courses every year.

No, I didn't say 8 years since training. I said 8 years of carrying a
gun and never using it for the only reason they carry it. Readiness is
going to lapse. The novelty of facing a shooter will be extreme and
disorienting.

> Until last
>renewal, my FOID card expired every 5 years or so IIRC. You put together a
>straw man argument where a person carrying, or having access to a gun in a
>school situation having 8 years since they took the class and claim others
>are being unreal?

No, I didn't say that. See above.

>Hey, might as well have the musket rusted up too, while
>you're making up crazy ideas of how it could fail. OK, so they light the
>fuse and can't keep the canon aimed at Lanza, is that ridiculous enough for
>you?
>
>Why are Obama's kids protected at school by people with guns, since you
>claim they are so completely ineffective?

Now you're getting into stupid argument territory. Obama's kids are
protected by Secret Service agents because they're perfect targets for
a lunatic or a kidnapper, for obvious reasons. SS agents aren't just
"people with guns."

> According to you, Adam Lanza with
>his poodle shooter could probably defeat the entire US Army.

Now you're sounding nutty.

>
>The truth is that the leftist Nazi's set up schools to be a safe place for
>murderers to kill children.

You've just tripped over the line into being an asshole.

>
>On Abortion, you probably didn't realize this is going on now, lame stream
>news ignores it, but what's your position if a child is born due to a
>botched abortion? So it's not a child till it's born, well, it gets born in
>the process of an abortion, should doctors attempt to save the newborn
>child? Obama says let it die, don't attempt to save the life. So now it's
>a living, born, human being, Obama says let a person die instead of giving
>it medical attention.
>
>RogerN

Look Roger, I'm going to end this abortion business with you in one
stroke. My housemate in college was Dr. Maureen Paul. Look her up. In
my opinion, she has more character and moral fiber in her little
finger than you have in your entire body. And you'll never understand
why.

--
Ed Huntress

[Ed Huntress]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 19:37:58 -0700 (PDT), JohnJohnsn
<TopCo...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Apr 10, 8:02 pm, Ed Huntless <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 17:39:21 -0700 (PDT), JohnJohnsn
>> <TopCop1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Johnson, you phony who claims he's worked for 110 years, why don't you
just take an enema and take up a new hobby or something.

Your arguments are so stupid, and so convoluted, that you aren't worth
the time.

--
Ed Huntress

[RogerN]

wrote in message
news:6989a103-d267-4a70...@t5g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...

>
>> >As badly as you want to avoid it, Ed; the FACT is that the Democrat-
>> >Congress-passed "Gun-Free School Zone Act" is what has killed more
>> >students of all ages than any other gun control law passed thusfar.
>>
>> >Quod Erat Demonstrandum
>>
>
>Are you saying that after eight years of not firing a gun that one
>forgets how to shoot? There have been periods where I did no
>shooting, and yet I did not forget how.
>
>So how many lives has the "Gun-Free School Zone Act" saved? My
>estimate is about minus 100.
>
>I have no illusions that armed teachers will shoot homicidal psychos.
>But al least we should not be advertising that schools are a place
>where there will not be any opposition.
>
>My thought is that every school should have a gun safe where there
>might be a gun. Let the psychos worry about which schools actually
>have any guns in the safe. And maybe have a reward for any school
>employee that shoots a killer.
>
>
>Dan

That sounds like a great idea. People put stickers on vehicles and homes
"Protected by ..." alarm system, sometimes the sticker is the only
protection. People put up real and dummy cameras to deter criminals. So at
a school they put up a sign that it's a gun free zone, might as well invite
murderers to "Come on in and Kill". Can you imagine a sticker on your car
saying "No Anti-Theft Devices!". How about a sign at the bank "Security is
Unarmed". Sound stupid? That's exactly what Democrats have done, and then
the stupid bastards blame Republicans even though most of those doing the
murders are Democrats. I'm not saying all Democrats are like that, they
aren't, some life long Democrats I know at work didn't vote last election
because they couldn't vote for Obama. I bought a raffle ticket Tuesday from
a Democrat friend at work, they are raffling off an AR-15!!!! Comes with a
30 round magazine!!! I hope I win it, raffling off 4-13, this Saturday.

http://register-news.com/local/x1435409591/Waltonville-Fire-adds-tanker-to-fleet
"The two main fundraisers for the district is a pancake and sausage
breakfast and a gun raffle."

They didn't mention the gun is a DPMS AR-15 with 30 round magazine!

I'm for background checks, Obama should go first!

RogerN

[JohnJohnsn]

On Apr 10, 10:55 pm, Edward "Fast and Loose Eddie" Huntress
<huntre...@optonline.net>, a DNC/Obama/Biden/Feinstein/Schumer

VLILLLDM Gun Control Quisling Protagonist and Propagandist, wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 19:37:58 -0700 (PDT), JohnJohnsn

> <TopCop1...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>> On Apr 10, 8:02 pm, Ed Huntress <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 17:39:21 -0700 (PDT), JohnJohnsn
>>> <TopCop1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>

> Johnson, you phony who claims he's worked for 110 years...
>
Ed; I've already kicked your ass all over the place about that "leap
of logic"; and flat out LIE, here on that, yet you trot it out again.

You must be related to Herr Goebbels; as you try passing off the same
lie trying to get SOMEONE, ANYONE, to fall for it.

"Insanity [is] doing the same thing over and over again and expecting
different results."
--Albert Einstein
>

> ...why don't you just take an enema and take up a new hobby or something.
>
Since I retired, my "new hobby" is making all you VLILLLDMs look
stupid, Ed.

With you, that's even easier; seeing as how you have proven your
stupidly by repeatedly putting Teddy Kennedy back into office again,
and Again, and AGAIN: despite his being proven a drunken sot who
wanted fo force onto others what he himself refused: a wind generator
in his own "backyard" (to-wit: in the Atlantic Ocean within visual
range of his place); and by having his worthless ass protected by
submachine gun-carrying body guards while denying to "the great
unwashed" their 2nd Amendment right to own post-1986 machine guns and
1994-2004 "assault weapons."

>
> Your arguments are so stupid, and so convoluted, that you aren't worth
> the time.
>

IOW; "Fast and Loose Eddie" Huntress cannot get past the fact that all
his VLILLLDM crapola is failing; so he "cuts and runs" once again
after getting his VLILLLDM ass kicked: AGAIN!

Quod Erat Demonstrandum, baby! (posting while watching`Kojak' <g>)

[Too_Many_Tools]

On Apr 10, 11:49 pm, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:
> wrote in messagenews:6989a103-d267-4a70...@t5g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...

> http://register-news.com/local/x1435409591/Waltonville-Fire-adds-tank...

> "The two main fundraisers for the district is a pancake and sausage
> breakfast and a gun raffle."
>
> They didn't mention the gun is a DPMS AR-15 with 30 round magazine!
>
> I'm for background checks, Obama should go first!
>

> RogerN- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

When the new laws are in place, you will lose your guns Roger.

And your exwife will be safer for it.

TMT

[Too_Many_Tools]

Sounds like you will fail that psych test Pyscho Johnny.

Then your guns will go bye bye.

laugh..laugh..laugh...

And have you noted how my responses go to misc.survivalism,
rec.crafts.metalworking, talk.politics.guns, alt.politics, alt.rush-
limbaugh...and not to idiots and kooks.

You lose again.

Laugh..laugh..laugh..



TMT

[Ed Huntress]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 23:03:58 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Apr 10, 11:49 pm, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:
>> wrote in messagenews:6989a103-d267-4a70...@t5g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >> >As badly as you want to avoid it, Ed; the FACT is that the Democrat-
>> >> >Congress-passed "Gun-Free School Zone Act" is what has killed more
>> >> >students of all ages than any other gun control law passed thusfar.
>>
>> >> >Quod Erat Demonstrandum
>>
>> >Are you saying that after eight years of not firing a gun that one
>> >forgets how to shoot?  There have been periods where I did no
>> >shooting, and yet I did not forget how.
>>
>> >So how many lives has the  "Gun-Free School Zone Act" saved?  My
>> >estimate is about minus 100.

Man, you guys are hopeless. Do you mean the "Gun-Free Schools Act of
1990"? That one was declared unconstitutional in U.S. v. Lopez (1995).
So they fixed it and wrote the one that's currently in effect,
sometimes called the "Gun-Free Schools Act of 1995."

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d104:S890:

It wound up being tacked onto an appropriations bill and passed by the
REPUBLICAN House and the REPUBLICAN Senate, in 1996, of the 104th
Congress:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/104th_United_States_Congress

In any state in which a license is required for open or concealed
carry, license holders are exempt from the federal law, and most
states follow suit. Licensed security guards also are exempt.

"Gun-free school zone" does not mean there are no guns there.

--
Ed Huntress

[Too_Many_Tools]

> >TMT- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Correct.

The gun loons don't know what the hell they are talking about...they
just echo what their handlers tell them.

I seldom listen to Faux News or Rush...whatever they say is repeated
here on Usenet over and over again the next day by their cult
followers.

TMT

[JohnJohnsn]

On Apr 10, 9:07 pm, suspected mail bomber and unindicted co-
conspirator, "strawman" gun purchaser, and husband of triple-murderer,
Amy Bishop, James "TMT Jimmy" Anderson, a/k/a "Too_Many_Tools/

>>> Look it up, there's books for making machine guns out of plumbing fittings...
>
Homemade "Sten" guns.
>
>>> ...and basic tools.

>
>> I have one I bought at a gun show 15 years ago. Your average schiz is
>> not going to build one.
>
>>> Maybe the next Adam Lanza will get his assault weapon from Mexican
>>> drug cartel supplied by Obama.
>
>> You're a loon, Roger.
>

Uncovering Operation Fast and Furious - CBS News
http://www.cbsnews.com/fast-and-furious/

>
>>> Many have died from the weapons Obama provided to the Mexican drug
>>> cartel but you won't hear it on the mainstream media, Obama's ministry
>>> of propaganda.
>
>> Of course! You get it by shortwave in the microchip they planted in
>> your wisdom tooth.
>

No, Eddie: via CBS News and their Investigative Reporter, Sharyl
Attkisson:

Fast and Furious gun found at Mexican crime scene - CBS News
http://www.cbsnews.com/.../fast-and-furious-gun-found-at-mexican-crime-scene

Exclusive: Fast and Furious IG report slams ATF Phoenix Personnel -
CBS News
http://www.cbsnews.com/.../exclusive-fast-and-furious-ig-report-slams-atf--phoenix-personnel

Fast and Furious posts - CBS News Investigates - CBS News
http://www.cbsnews.com/8300-31727_162-10391695.html

Justice Dept. seeks to dismiss Fast and Furious suit - CBS News
http://www.cbsnews.com/.../justice-dept-seeks-to-dismiss-fast-and-furious-suit/

A primer on the "Fast and Furious" scandal - CBS News Investigates
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301.../a-primer-on-the-fast-and-furious-scandal/

Heads roll after Fast and Furious investigation - CBS News
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301.../heads-roll-after-fast-and-furious-investigatio...

Family of slain fed wants Fast and Furious firings - CBS News
http://www.cbsnews.com/.../family-of-slain-fed-wants-fast-and-furious-firings/

CBS News: 'Fast and Furious' Gun Found At Site Where Mexican Beauty
Queen Killed
http://www.washington.cbslocal.com%2F2012%2F12%2F18%2Fcbs-news-fast-and-furious-gun-found-at-site-where-mexican-beauty-queen-killed

[ATF] Agent: I was ordered to let guns "walk" into Mexico - CBS News
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/03/eveningnews/main20039031.shtml

And the one all you VLILLLDMs run away from the fastest:

ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations - CBS
News

Documents obtained by CBS News show that the Bureau of Alcohol
Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) discussed using their covert
operation "Fast and Furious" to argue for controversial new rules
about gun sales.

In Fast and Furious, ATF secretly encouraged gun dealers to sell to
suspected traffickers for Mexican drug cartels to go after the "big
fish." But ATF whistleblowers told CBS News and Congress it was a
dangerous practice called "gunwalking," and it put thousands of
weapons on the street. Many were used in violent crimes in Mexico. Two
were found at the murder scene of a U.S. Border Patrol agent.

ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in
letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they
discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to
justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". That would
require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or
"long guns." Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the
third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.

On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an
update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark
Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of
Fast and Furious:

"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same
(licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal
cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."

On Jan. 4, 2011, as ATF prepared a press conference to announce
arrests in Fast and Furious, Newell saw it as "(A)nother time to
address Multiple Sale on Long Guns issue." And a day after the press
conference, Chait emailed Newell: "Bill--well done yesterday... (I)n
light of our request for Demand letter 3, this case could be a strong
supporting factor if we can determine how many multiple sales of long
guns occurred during the course of this case."

This revelation angers gun rights advocates. Larry Keane, a spokesman
for National Shooting Sports Foundation, a gun industry trade group,
calls the discussion of Fast and Furious to argue for Demand Letter 3
"disappointing and ironic." Keane says it's "deeply troubling" if
sales made by gun dealers "voluntarily cooperating with ATF's flawed
'Operation Fast & Furious' were going to be used by some individuals
within ATF to justify imposing a multiple sales reporting requirement
for rifles."
[...]
Two earlier Demand Letters were initiated in 2000 and affected a
relatively small number of gun shops. Demand Letter 3 was to be much
more sweeping, affecting 8,500 firearms dealers in four southwest
border states: Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas. ATF chose
those states because they "have a significant number of crime guns
traced back to them from Mexico." The reporting requirements were to
apply if a gun dealer sells two or more long guns to a single person
within five business days, and only if the guns are semi-automatic,
greater than .22 caliber and can be fitted with a detachable
magazine.

On April 25, 2011, ATF announced plans to implement Demand Letter 3.
The National Shooting Sports Foundation is suing the ATF to stop the
new rules. It calls the regulation an illegal attempt to enforce a law
Congress never passed. ATF counters that it has reasonably targeted
guns used most often to "commit violent crimes in Mexico, especially
by drug gangs."
[...]
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-57338546-10391695/documents-atf-used-fast-and-furious-to-make-the-case-for-gun-regulations/

Sharyl Attkisson is a CBS News investigative correspondent based in
Washington. All of her stories, videos and blogs are available here.

"No Guts; No Glory!" Thank you, Sharyl Attkisson for reporting the
TRUTH about F&F!

>
>>> That's a big part of the left-wing problem, you have to think beyond your
>>> next move, who knew Obama's assault on the 2nd Amendment would
>>> trigger gun and ammo sales to record highs?
>
>> Anyone with half a brain or more knew that there would be a rush on
>> guns and ammo if a northern Democrat was elected. The NRA got to
>> you and melted your mind. I'm STILL getting that crap. Here's the lead
>> to the one from two days ago:
>
>>"Dear NRA Member:
>
>>"The U.S. Senate is set to act on anti-gun legislation as early as this
>> week. These proposals are the latest attempt by anti-gun Senators
>> to erode our Second Amendment rights..."
>
>> So now you fools are paying ridiculous prices because you're like
>> puppets on a string. There would be no ammo shortage if you didn't
>> freak out.
>

The ammo shortage is primarily the result of DHS buying 1.6 BILLION
rounds; thereby _creating_ that shortage, Eddie.

>
>> It's like a run on a bank at a mental institution.
>
>>> Everyone but a libtard!
>
>> You're the fool who's paying for your paranoid fantasy, Roger.
>

“Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.”
--Kurt Cobain: quoting Joseph Heller, `Catch 22'

>
>>> You mentioned the children that got away when changing magazines, if Lanza
>>> had 2 pistols, one could have been ready to fire while the other was needing
>>> a magazine change, he could have held them with one pistol while reloading
>>> the 2nd.
>
>> Jesus. A one-handed magazine change by a crazed lunatic. I'm sure that
>> would have worked just fine. It worked so well for Jared Loughner,
>> with just one gun to handle....
>
>>> When they ban the "assault weapons", the assault weapon version of the

>>> AR is a select-fire weapon that's already banned, people will print them out,

>>> those who want to kill will find other weapons, some won't be as deadly,
>>> like the knife stabbings, some will be more destructive, like bombs. The
>>> problem is the people that want to kill innocent people, like the
>>> pro-abortion crowd and other deranged killers, they want to murder and will
>>> use whatever means they can to murder. Like you admit yourself, take away

>>> A woman's legal right to kill her unborn child, she'll use a coat hanger.

>
>> Only in your deranged mind. Gestating fetuses are not "people,"
>> innocent or otherwise.
>
>> And there is no constitutional right to shoot actual children.
>
>>> The left-wing movement as a whole isn't about upholding the constitution
>>> or most of the Democrat politicians, and some Republicans, would already
>>> be in prison.
>
>> How would you know? You apparently have never read it.
>
>>> The left-wing movement is about cramming their agenda down our
>>> throats in an unconstitutional manner, and for that I hope they have
>>> reason to fear for their life.
>
>> By whom? You?
>
>>> Notice that many of the anti-gun crowd have guns or
>>> are protected by people that have guns, hypocrites.
>
>> They need protection from people like you. You have guns and you're a
>> grenade ready to go off.
>
>>> To ask a ToolTard type question, if Guns are so bad, why do police use them?
>
>> To protect people from gun nutz who want to kill everyone who voted
>> for Obama.
>
>>> As far as machining my receiver, my shop is 5 miles away so I don't spend
>>> much time there, I got my DRO scale replaced, it's working now, got the
>>> power fixed, next is machining the side plates to sandwich the receiver
>>> to fit in the vise, then drill & ream 3 holes, mill a pocket 1.249" +/-0.010
>>> deep. In the mean time I have got a progressive reloading press working,

>>> I can crank out a ready-to-fire cartridge for every pull of the handle! I

>>> have over 200 rounds ready to fire and many more on the way! Rural King,
>>> a local farm & hardware chain, has AR-15 30 round magazines for sale,
>>> never seen them there before. All thanks to Obama Assault Weapon Sales!
>
>> And you're the nut who makes people want to ban them. The more we
>> talk, Roger, the freakier it gets.
>
>> --
>> Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -
>
>> - Show quoted text -
>

Oh, look: stupid "TMT Jimmy" _still_ hasn't figured out that simple to
deal with "- Hide quoted text - / - Show quoted text -" thingy.
<chuckle> ;)

>
> I think we are seeing why Roger's exwife dumped his sorry ass...the
> loon is crazy.
>
> TMT
>

Speaking of {ex}wives, Jimmy; have you had your conjugal visit with
yours yet?

You remember her; Amy Bishop: the one you made that "strawman" gun
purchase of the 9mm Ruger you handed her so she could kill those three
college professors.

Hypocrisy; thy names are "TMT Jimmy" Anderson.& Edward Huntress!

[Klaus Schadenfreude]

The cool thing is it's probably easier to make full auto guns than it
is semi auto.

[Stormin Mormon]

But, if only one life could have been saved! One competent teacher with a
handgun could have saved many, many lives.
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
.
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:ncjbm85oer3p4tf2e...@4ax.com...

Look, let's do this once: Shall-issue states typically have CCWs among
2% - 3% of their eligible citizens. According to anecdotal comments by
police, it appears that roughly half are carrying at any given time.

The number of teachers at Sandy Hook Elementary was something close to
33. Given the normal ratio of armed CCW holders in states where they
really like their guns, how many teachers would normally be armed,
without coercion? Zero.

But let's say that Roger and the NRA has coerced two of them to be
armed -- a huge increase over the normal percentage of armed adults.

There are 27 classrooms in the "new" Sandy Hook Elementary. I can't
find data on how many were in the old one. Lanza did most of his
shooting in two classrooms.

Now, even the numeracy-challenged will realize that the chance one of
the two coerced, gun-toting teachers was in that classroom is
extremely small. Furthermore, anyone with any sense knows that
teachers in the other classrooms, armed or not, are going to protect
their kids. They aren't going to go wandering around the halls waving
a gun. My wife is a special-ed elementary teacher. I can assure you
about what they would do. They're going to protect the kids in their
room -- they're like family.

Say one does come out in the hall. Lanze shot everyone who he saw in
the hallways, according to preliminary reports. He's got an AR and
he's already been killing. He has the upper hand.

So your Walter Mitty fantasy is a crock of shit. There won't be more
than one or two guns in that school. Those teachers are not delusional
hotshots who think they're Jeff Cooper. Leave that for the
fantasy-weavers like you.


--
Ed Huntress

[Ed Huntress]

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 12:56:33 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61**NOJUNK**@hotmail.com> wrote:

>But, if only one life could have been saved! One competent teacher with a
>handgun could have saved many, many lives.

It's all speculation, Chris. One trained sheriff's deputy did no good
at Columbine.

Could it work out in favor of saving lives? Sure, it could. But as I
said, the data on accidents and so on, if there was, say, one gun in
each of the 135,000 schools in the US, tells us that the chances of
doing harm is higher than the chances of actually defending anyone in
those schools. The incidence of intentional school shootings is just
too low to stack up against the incidences of accidental harm.

There is more to it than statistics, however, and there are competing
psychological effects that could be more important, given the low
incidence of shootings. On one hand, having a trained and armed
security guard in each school could give parents and teachers more
peace of mind. Or it could give the impression that the threat is much
greater than it really is, everywhere, and turn schools into places
that are frightening and distracting for kids and for teachers.

I'm not drawing conclusions so much as I am pointing out that much of
the argument for arming teachers, janitors, or whatever is based on
fantasies and misconceptions about the relative threats and the
relative risks. And the thing I find very destructive to making good
policy is that it's apparent that the NRA jumped on this issue not
because they're delusional about what they're suggesting, but because
they saw an opportunity to distract attention from measures that could
reduce the number of guns in criminals' hands, and to replace it with
a pair of fantasies -- keeping dangerous nutcases away from guns,
without changing any gun laws, and "defending" school children by
arming teachers. They know the facts. But they're cynical and
self-serving as hell.

--
Ed Huntress

[Stormin Mormon]

Special circumstances:
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/col1123b.htm

.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
.
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message

news:qirdm810gtglh4kbd...@4ax.com...

[Stormin Mormon]

I used to read the NRA column "the armed citizen". Plenty of examples of
armed commoners stopping crimes, and defending self. I'd sure prefer
teachers and custodians to have the choice of carrying a gun. They are all
background checked and shown to be responsible. Admittedly, most are liberal
Democrats, so we can't expect them to be courageous and quick thinking in
situations.

.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
.
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message

news:qirdm810gtglh4kbd...@4ax.com...

[Stormin Mormon]

So, you're engaging in NRA bashing, now? You must be a racist.

.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
.
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message

news:qirdm810gtglh4kbd...@4ax.com...

[RD Sandman]

Ed Huntress <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in

news:8chbm8pai266qs5e8...@4ax.com:

> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 15:00:45 -0500, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net>

> wrote:
>
>>"Ed Huntress" wrote in message

>>news:dcmam8169ifph4lk8...@4ax.com...
>>
>>>On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 04:03:27 -0700 (PDT), "Robert Westergrom,1900
>>>Harvey rd.,Wilmington,D.E" <burto...@gmail.com> wrote:
>><snip>
>>>>Because guns aren't allowed on that campus. Go figger.
>>>
>>>Right. Maybe that's why he didn't have one. But you know, as the gun
>>>nutz frequently tell us, someone intent on mayhem will find another
>>>weapon if he doesn't have a gun.
>>>
>>>How did his kill ratio stack up against Adam Lanza's?
>>>
>>>--
>>>Ed Huntress
>>
>>To maximize casualties with guns you need a liberal kill zone like
>>Sandy Hook Elementary.
>
> To maximize casualties you need, first, a gun that will lay down a lot
> of fire in a short time. That's why militaries all over the world use
> them.

Militaries use full auto or select fire weaponry, Ed. Civilians use
semi auto.


--

Democracy means that anyone can grow up to be President,

And anyone who doesn't grow up can be Vice President.


Sleep well, tonight.....

RD (The Sandman)

[RD Sandman]

jon_banquer <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:b50aeec5-f991-4ca9...@oy9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com:

> On Apr 10, 1:36 pm, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:
>> "Ed Huntress"  wrote in message
>>

>> news:8chbm8pai266qs5e8...@4ax.com...

>>
>>
>>
>> >On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 15:00:45 -0500, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net>
>> >wrote:
>>

>> <snip>

>>
>> >>To maximize casualties with guns you need a liberal kill zone like
>> >>Sand
> y
>> >>Hook Elementary.
>>
>> >To maximize casualties you need, first, a gun that will lay down a
>> >lot of fire in a short time. That's why militaries all over the
>> >world use them.
>>

>> They didn't need this kind of gun in the Oklahoma bombing, many more
>> were killed in much less time.  They didn't ban fertilizer or fuel.
>>
>> In militaries all over the world, soldiers can't go in and kill 26
>> enemy soldiers in 5 minutes because liberals haven't disarmed the
>> enemy soldier
> s
>> yet.
>>
>> ><snip>
>>
>> >>Adam Lanza's mother probably foresaw the direction this country was
>> >>hea
> ded
>> >>in thanks to Liberals, that's most likely the reason she felt the
>> >>need
> for
>> >>an AR-15.
>>
>> >And her foresight made it all possible.
>>
>> So if Adam Lanza's mom hadn't bought the gun, there is no where else
>> the
> kid
>> could have gotten his hands on a gun?  How will disarming law abiding
>> citizens prevent criminals from getting ahold of guns?  Would a
>> person
> with
>> 2 pistols and a few spare magazines be able to kill just as many kids
>> at
> a
>> school?  Would the background checks they are now passing have
>> prevente
> d
>> Adam Lanza's mother from buying an AR-15?
>>
>> >Roger, I think you're insane.
>>
>> >--
>> >Ed Huntress
>>
>> How are you going to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals by
>> taking weapons away from law abiding citizens?  How are you going to
>> keep weap
> ons
>> out of anyone's hands when they can be made from plumbing fittings?
>>  Ar
> e you
>> also going to regulate steel that could be fashioned into a firearm?
>>  A
> nd
>> the machine tools that can be used to make weapons?  And what about
>> Asp
> irin,
>> they can be used to make detonators for bombs.  Maybe we can outlaw
>> metalworking, chemistry, biology, aluminum foil, matches, silver,
>> lead-ac
> id
>> batteries, stump remover, dirt that may contain Potassium Nitrate,
>> gasoli
> ne,
>> propane, butane, acetylene, oxygen, diesel fuel, corn starch,
>> anything th
> at
>> could be potentially harmful.

>>
>> Disarming law abiding citizens for what criminals do is as insane as
>> taki
> ng
>> away your drivers license because someone else drove drunk!
>>

>> RogerN
>
> How are we going to have a better America if you and many others keep
> blaming liberals for all our problems?
>

They have the same problem with many people blaming Republicans or
conservatives for all their problems. Are you going to be upset at your
side also?

[Too_Many_Tools]

On Apr 11, 12:25 pm, Ed Huntress <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 12:56:33 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
>

> >"Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote in message

> >fantasy-weavers like you.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

Very well said Ed.

TMT

[Too_Many_Tools]

On Apr 11, 3:35 pm, "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**NOJUN...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

> I used to read the NRA column "the armed citizen". Plenty of examples of
> armed commoners stopping crimes, and defending self. I'd sure prefer
> teachers and custodians to have the choice of carrying a gun. They are all
> background checked and shown to be responsible. Admittedly, most are liberal
> Democrats, so we can't expect them to be courageous and quick thinking in
> situations.
> .
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
>    www.lds.org
> .

> ."Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote in message

The NRA "Armed Citizen" is a fairy tale for gun loons.

They print only the examples that serve the NRA's purpose..to sell
more gun to gun loons.

TMT

[Ed Huntress]

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 16:32:12 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61**NOJUNK**@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Special circumstances:
> http://extras.denverpost.com/news/col1123b.htm

Not really. He just missed. Live targets that are shooting back are
not like the fairy tales we've been hearing in this thread.

--
Ed Huntress

[Ed Huntress]

They did just fine with semi-auto before they had ARs. In DCM
rapid-fire with M1s we had to shoot 5, reload, shoot 5. Big magazines
would have made it quicker. Adam Lanza knew that.

--
Ed Huntress

[RD Sandman]

Ed Huntress <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in

news:729em892l4f08l6qj...@4ax.com:

They also had full auto M1s. I, myself, had to perform guard duty with a
fully loaded M3 Greasegun. It was full auto.

Big magazines
> would have made it quicker. Adam Lanza knew that.

Not necessarily. Big magazines are harder to handle...Ask Loughner.

[Richard]

On 4/11/2013 3:57 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
>
> Not really. He just missed. Live targets that are shooting back are
> not like the fairy tales we've been hearing in this thread.
>

That's No Shit.

But it's all looks so easy on TV...

[Scout]

"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**NOJUNK**@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MbF9t.40915$tV4...@fed11.iad...

> I used to read the NRA column "the armed citizen". Plenty of examples of
> armed commoners stopping crimes, and defending self. I'd sure prefer
> teachers and custodians to have the choice of carrying a gun. They are all
> background checked and shown to be responsible. Admittedly, most are
> liberal
> Democrats, so we can't expect them to be courageous and quick thinking in
> situations.
> .
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
> .
> "Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:qirdm810gtglh4kbd...@4ax.com...
>
>>But, if only one life could have been saved! One competent teacher with a
>>handgun could have saved many, many lives.
>
> It's all speculation, Chris. One trained sheriff's deputy did no good
> at Columbine.
>
> Could it work out in favor of saving lives? Sure, it could. But as I
> said, the data on accidents and so on, if there was, say, one gun in
> each of the 135,000 schools in the US, tells us that the chances of
> doing harm is higher than the chances of actually defending anyone in
> those schools.

Excuse me, but how exactly do you get from your speculation to asserting
such a conclusion?

What is the factual basis on which you are basing that conclusion?

[Ed Huntress]

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 16:36:51 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61**NOJUNK**@hotmail.com> wrote:

>So, you're engaging in NRA bashing, now? You must be a racist.

Then you must be a little nutz.

--
Ed Huntress

[Stormin Mormon]

When conservatives assign blame, it's based on behaviour and results. When
liberals assign blame, it's based on pure hatred. That's my finding.

.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
.

"RD Sandman" <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:XnsA19F8C866...@216.196.121.131...

jon_banquer <jonba...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:b50aeec5-f991-4ca9...@oy9g2000pbb.googlegroups.com:

>

> How are we going to have a better America if you and many others keep
> blaming liberals for all our problems?
>

They have the same problem with many people blaming Republicans or
conservatives for all their problems. Are you going to be upset at your
side also?

RD (The Sandman)

[Stormin Mormon]

So the kids with good vision killed a bunch, and the nearsighted security
guard missed. Hmm. And, you think that's a coincidence?

.
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
.
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message

news:s08em8lh7c87cpc2p...@4ax.com...

[Ed Huntress]

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 16:21:57 -0500, RD Sandman

I believe you're thinking of the late carbines, not the Garands we
shot in DCM and that were the standard service rifle before the M14.

> I, myself, had to perform guard duty with a
>fully loaded M3 Greasegun. It was full auto.

Well, full autos were around for a long time. My dad carried a
Thompson through the South Pacific in WWII.

The point is that standard service rifles were semi-auto from WWII
until sometime in the late '50s. And they could lay down a lot of
fire. That's why the loons like them for mass killings now. They might
prefer full-auto, but semis with large detachable magazines are the
best choice that's easily available.

>
> Big magazines
>> would have made it quicker. Adam Lanza knew that.
>
>Not necessarily. Big magazines are harder to handle...Ask Loughner.

Lanza switched more than ten of them. Maybe he had more practice.

--
Ed Huntress

[Ed Huntress]

Gun injury statistics. If you can't find them, let me know and I'll
dig them up for you.

>
>What is the factual basis on which you are basing that conclusion?

Injury statistics. FWIW, there also are at least 117 documented cases
of CCW holders committing unlawful homicides, including 9 police
officers. And those figures are based on news reports, so they're
probably 'way low.

--
Ed Huntress

[JohnJohnsn]

On Apr 11, 3:35 pm, "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**NOJUN...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
>

> I used to read the NRA column "The Armed Citizen".
>
NRA-ILA | Armed Citizen
http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen.aspx

>
> Plenty of examples of armed commoners stopping crimes, and defending self.
> I'd sure prefer teachers and custodians to have the choice of carrying a gun.
> They are all background checked and shown to be responsible.
>

AND having successfully cmpleted one of the many "Armed Response to
Active Shooters Training for Teachers" courses now avaiable throughout
the country.

>
> Admittedly, most are liberal Democrats, so we can't expect them
> to be courageous and quick thinking in situations.
>

http://instantrimshot.com/

:)

[Ed Huntress]

On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 18:03:53 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61**NOJUNK**@hotmail.com> wrote:

>So the kids with good vision killed a bunch, and the nearsighted security
>guard missed. Hmm. And, you think that's a coincidence?

How do you know the kids had "good vision"? And how do you know the
sheriff's deputy was nearsighted? My vision isn't that great, but it
hardly matters in shooting man-sized targets at 60 yards. You center
the fuzzy ball. When you're shooting with iron sights, even mature
people with pretty good vision are shooting at fuzzy balls. You focus
on the front sight.

My guess is that you don't do much shooting, right?

About those kids: They were on a murder-suicide mission. They were
shooting at very close range. No problem.

--
Ed Huntress

[JohnJohnsn]

On Apr 11, 3:52 pm, suspected mail bomber and unindicted co-

conspirator, "strawman" gun purchaser, and husband of triple-murderer,
Amy Bishop, James "TMT Jimmy" Anderson, a/k/a "Too_Many_Tools/
Too_Few_Brains" <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>

> On Apr 11, 3:35 pm, "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**NOJUN...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I used to read the NRA column "the armed citizen". Plenty of examples of
>> armed commoners stopping crimes, and defending self. I'd sure prefer
>> teachers and custodians to have the choice of carrying a gun. They are all
>> background checked and shown to be responsible. Admittedly, most are liberal
>> Democrats, so we can't expect them to be courageous and quick thinking in
>> situations.
>> .
>> Christopher A. Young
>

> The NRA "Armed Citizen" is a fairy tale for gun loons.
>

"Why do you have to lie to post?"
--"TMT Jimmy"s fellow VLILLLDM Andy "mrLookout" Hull

They are all excerpts from local newspapers reporting DGUs, JImmy:

NRA-ILA | Armed Citizen
http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen.aspx

Examples (Page 1 of 162):

April 5, 2013

Elderly man holds burglar for police, NWCN, Portland, Ore. 03/28/13
82-year-old Jim Brazel and his wife were asleep at home in Linn
County, Ore. when they were awakened by suspicious noises coming from
Brazel’s workshop. After retrieving a .410 shotgun, Brazel went to
investigate and discovered a burglar. Brazel said to the man, “You
take one more step and this gun goes off in the middle of your chest.
Do what you want.” The criminal chose to stay put until police could
arrive, 20 minutes later. Following the incident, Brazel spoke of the
burglar to local media, stating, “He’s making a mistake to try country
people… Because 99 percent of us are all the same. We’re not afraid to
shoot.”

April 3, 2013

Young woman fights off attacker, KPTV, Portland, Ore. 04/01/13, KGW,
Portland, Ore. 04/02/2013
Just after a 22-year-old woman got out of her car in Oregon City,
Ore., a man grabbed her by her ponytail and dragged and attacked her.
The criminal continued his attack until the young woman drew a
handgun, which caused the attacker to flee. In describing the incident
to local media, Oregon City Police Sgt. Matthew Paschall recalled, “He
continued to assault her until she was able to defend herself by
producing her legally-owned handgun.”

March 26, 2013

Woman fights off two home invaders, WRAL, Raleigh, N.C. 03/22/13
A woman in Elm City, N.C. was home sick from work when she heard a
banging at her back door. The noise turned out to be a pair of home
invaders who forced their way inside as the woman fled to retrieve a
gun and hide in a closet. Eventually the burglars made it to the room
where the homeowner was hiding, and when they opened the door, the
woman fired at them, striking one and causing both to flee. Neighbor
Wayne Crumpler spotted the home invaders after hearing one of the
criminals screaming for help in the street. As one of the burglars
moved towards Crumpler’s property, Crumpler retrieved a revolver and
ordered the man to halt. The criminals fled, but were captured by
police a short time later. Speaking to local media about the incident,
Crumpler approved of his neighbor’s actions, stating, “She was lucky
she knew how to use a handgun and lucky she had it. Because if she
hadn’t, we might be going to a funeral.”

March 22, 2013

Couple battles violent home invaders, KENS, San Antonio, Texas
03/21/13
A homeowner in Maypearl, Texas was at home watching TV when she heard
a suspicious noise at the door. When she got up to investigate, the
woman spotted one of a pair of armed criminals trying to get into her
home. The homeowner then went find her husband and retrieve a gun. The
husband was on another part of the property, but once he heard of the
intrusion he went inside the house and retrieved a rifle. A gun battle
ensued, with the husband and wife firing at the criminals and the
criminals returning fire. The homeowners managed to strike one of the
home invaders in the foot, while the other fled in a pickup truck to a
nearby field. After succumbing to the armed resistance, both criminals
took their own lives. Following the incident, Lt. James Saulter of the
Ellis County Sheriff’s Department told local media, “Our sheriff is
always letting homeowners know to arm themselves. This is one of the
reasons why… Sometimes it takes a while for us to get out this far,
and they have to take care of themselves.”

March 20, 2013

Cab driver thwarts robber, News Day, Melville, N.Y. 03/14/13
A cab driver was driving a passenger in Jericho, N.Y. when the
passenger asked the cabbie how much money he was carrying and directed
him to a parking lot. Suspicious, the cabbie parked and ran from the
car while trying to call 911. The criminal gave chase, and repeatedly
hit the cabbie with an object. The cabbie, authorized to carry as a
former law enforcement officer, responded by drawing a pistol and
firing at the robber, striking him in the leg. When police arrived,
the criminal and the cab driver were taken to a local hospital;
neither had life-threatening injuries.

March 19, 2013

Couple captures burglar, KVAL, Eugene, Ore. 03/15/13
As Derek LeBlanc was leaving his home for work at 5 a.m. he noticed
the rear window of his truck was smashed and that a criminal was
inside. LeBlanc tackled the burglar, and shouted to his girlfriend,
who was still inside the home, for help. The girlfriend, Heidi Lusk,
retrieved a shotgun and phone, and rushed to LeBlanc’s aid. Together
the couple detained the criminal until police could arrive. While
recalling the incident to local media, LeBlanc stated, “You never know
what you’re going to do until it happens, but I sure as hell wasn’t
going to be a victim.”

March 15, 2013

Right-to-Carry permit holder saves woman from vicious beating, WITI,
Milwaukee, Wis. 03/12/13, The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, Milwaukee,
Wis. 03/13/13
Charlie Blackmore Jr. was driving home from work at 4 a.m. through
West Allis, Wis. when he noticed a man beating a woman who was lying
on the ground, who according to Blackmore suffered a “big laceration
by her eye” and what looked like a broken nose. Blackmore, a Marine
Corps veteran and Right-to-Carry permit holder, immediately pulled
over, exited the vehicle, and ordered the man to halt the attack. The
attacker complied, but then moved towards Blackmore, at which point
the veteran drew a 9mm pistol. Recalling the moment for local media,
Blackmore stated, “I mean I’ve already made it up in mind that if he
came at me I was going to have to take him down and I told him that. I
warned him multiple times not to come towards me because he was a big
guy and I wasn’t playing around and he didn’t seem like he was playing
around.” The criminal then began to walk away, with Blackmore
following him as he called the police on his cell phone. A short time
later police arrived and captured the criminal. Following the
incident, Milwaukee County Sheriff David A. Clarke Jr. had kind words
for Blackmore and reaffirmed his recent support for armed self-
defense, noting, “I want to get to a day when acts like this are
viewed as a citizen doing their civic duty. Criminals have got to be
reassessing things right now. They have to be asking themselves if it
is worth it anymore, might they face resistance or be shot? That’s a
good thing.”

March 12, 2013

81-year-old halts robbery attempt, The Miami Herald, Miami, Fla.
03/11/12
81-year-old James Stevens was driving home through Ocala, Fla. when he
noticed a car following him. Reluctant to go home with the person
tailing him, Stevens pulled over and retrieved a .38-caliber revolver
from his vehicle. The person behind him followed suit, then got out of
his car, approached Stevens, and ordered him to hand over “everything
you got.” Stevens responded by firing at the criminal, striking him in
the abdomen and ending the robbery. When the authorities arrived, they
found the robber in some nearby grass and transported him to a local
hospital. An investigation revealed that the wounded criminal had
previously been convicted of altering the serial number of a firearm.

March 7, 2013

Woman defends home and children from armed intruder, WDSU, New
Orleans, La. 03/05/13
A woman was inside her Covington, La. home at around 1:40 a.m. when
she was awakened by an armed man inside her bedroom. After retrieving
a shotgun from a nearby closet, the woman checked on her children,
then forced the home invader out of her house. Once the authorities
arrived, police used a K-9 unit to track the criminal and found him
nearby.

March 4, 2013

Son defends parents from home invaders, KHOU, Houston, Texas 2/22/13
A 21-year-old man was at home with his parents in Houston, Texas when
three armed men approached the house. After hearing a knock on the
door, the father went to see who it was, opening the door slightly.
The home invaders used this opportunity to force their way inside, and
pushed the father and mother to the ground. The son ran into another
room, retrieved a gun and fired at the criminals, killing one and
causing the others to flee. Police captured the surviving criminals
in a getaway car a short time later.

February 22, 2013

Homeowner kills career criminal, NBC5DFW, Dallas, Texas, 02/18/13, The
Dallas Observer, Dallas, Texas 02/19/13
A homeowner in Dallas, Texas heard a suspicious noise in his house,
went to investigate, and discovered a man attempting to crawl through
a window. The homeowner retrieved a gun and shot the home invader,
killing him. In comments to local media, Dallas Police Sergeant
described the homeowner’s actions, ending with “according to the law,
the castle doctrine, he used deadly force.” The deceased intruder’s
mother came to the scene after hearing about shooting, but wasn’t
surprised by the outcome, stating of her son, “Yeah, it’s something he
would do.” Police records confirm her statement, showing the home
invader had half a dozen arrests for theft.

[FYI: "The Dallas Observer" is a Left-Wing rag publication, Jimmy <g>]

February 19, 2013

Woman saves sister from robbery and assault, The St. Louis Post-
Dispatch, St. Louis, Mo. 02/10/13
Sisters Debi Keeney and Donna Carlyle were at home in Highland, Mo.
when a man forced his way inside the apartment as Keeney returned from
smoking a cigarette outside. The criminal then threw Carlyle to the
floor and began choking her and demanding money. Keeney recalled, “All
I could see was Donna’s face going blue, like her life was being
choked out of her.” In response, Keeney retrieved a .22-caliber pistol
and, after a verbal warning, fired at the home invader, striking him
twice and ending the attack. Following the incident, Keeney stated, “I
gave him the opportunity to leave. I wish he had left without me
having to shoot him… Put in the same situation again, I would do it
again.” The sisters’ neighbor, Rodney Rusick, was supportive of
Keeney’s actions, telling local media, “I’m proud of her for shooting
that dude.”

February 7, 2013

70-year-old basketball coach defends self and players, WXYZ, Detroit,
Mich. 02/04/13
The women’s basketball coach at Martin Luther King Jr. High School in
Detroit, Mich. was walking two players to their vehicles when a pair
of armed criminals approached. The 70-year-old coach was grabbed by
one of the robbers, who then threatened him with what appeared to be a
gun. After a brief struggle, the coach, a Right-to-Carry permit
holder, drew a pistol and shot both criminals, killing one and landing
the other in the hospital.

February 5, 2013

Homeowner scares off home invader, The News-Sentinel, Fort Wayne, Ind.
02/01/2013
A homeowner was at his house in Fort Wayne, Ind. when a burglar armed
with a handgun broke into the home. The homeowner responded by
retrieving a gun and firing at the criminal, causing him to flee.
Police do not believe the burglar was struck. Fort Wayne Police
spokesman Sgt. Mark Brooks told local media that it was unlikely that
the armed citizen would face charges, as Indiana’s castle doctrine law
protects homeowners.

February 1, 2013

Homeowner fells wanted criminal, The News-Star, Shawnee, Okla.
01/31/13
Shortly after 4 a.m., a homeowner in McLoud, Okla. awakened to the
sound of a burglar breaking into his house. The homeowner retrieved a
gun and fired at the criminal, striking him once and causing him to
flee. The home invader was captured by police a short time later while
seeking treatment at a nearby hospital. An investigation revealed that
the criminal was already subject to a felony bench warrant for failing
to appear in court for a case in which he was charged with three
counts of possession of a stolen vehicle.

January 29, 2013

Man defends himself and wife from home invader, WOWT, Omaha, Neb.
January 26, 2013
David Erives and his wife were in their Omaha, Neb. home when a man
began pounding on their back door. The wife went to answer the door,
but upon opening it, the man grabbed her and came inside the house. To
protect his wife, Erives retrieved a rifle and shot the criminal once
in the leg and ordered the home invader to the floor. When the
intruder didn’t comply, Erives shot the man again, this time in the
chest, killing him. Police are conducting an investigation, but have
told local media, “at this point all indications are that the shooting
was justified.”

January 24, 2013

Gun owner saves boy from vicious pit bull attack, The Washington Post,
Washington, D.C. 01/22/13
An 11-year-old boy was riding a bike through his Washington, D.C.
neighborhood when he encountered a trio of unleashed pit bulls. The
pit bulls viciously attacked the boy, with the young man’s uncle later
recalling that all three of the dogs were biting the boy’s limbs. A
neighbor who witnessed the attack went home, retrieved a pistol, and
fired at the dogs, striking one. The sound of gunfire alerted a police
officer to the attack, and once on the scene the officer dispatched
the other two dogs. Following the attack, the boy was taken to a local
hospital and underwent surgery. The boy’s uncle praised the actions of
the armed citizen and police officer, stating, “They did the right
thing.” Unfortunately, doing the right thing can be a crime in
Washington, D.C., as District police are investigating whether the
armed citizen violated any of the city’s onerous gun control laws.

January 22, 2013

Homeowner halts crime spree, WAFB, Baton Rouge, La. January 18, 2013
Jeffersonville, Ind. homeowner Mike Dreyer was allowing his ex-wife to
stay in a storage building on his property, when two burglars
attempted to break into the shed. The ex-wife was inside when the
thieves struck at 4:30 a.m., and used her cell phone to alert Dreyer,
who was across the property in his home, to the threat. Dreyer
retrieved a gun, came out of the house and confronted the criminals.
Upon seeing the gun, one of the thieves dropped to the ground, while
the other fled over a fence. After a brief standoff with the criminal
who had jumped the fence, Dyer managed to call the police and hold the
remaining burglar at gunpoint until they arrived. Clark County Chief
Deputy Prosecutor Jeremy Mull told media that the captured criminal
and his partner were on a crime spree before reaching Dreyer’s
property. Mull went on to alert burglars to the dangers of their
behavior, warning that “many more homeowners are now armed.”

January 15, 2013

Armed Citizen halts car theft, KENS, San Antonio, Texas 01/15/12
A man was visiting family inside a home in San Antonio, Texas, when he
overheard a pair of thieves attempting to steal his SUV that was
parked outside. The SUV owner retrieved a gun, went to confront the
criminals, and fired after seeing one of the thieves holding what
looked like a gun. The SUV owner’s shots struck both men. One of the
wounded criminals attempted to flee in a getaway car, but crashed into
a parked vehicle after making it only a block. Once police arrived on
the scene, they discovered one of the thieves to be dead and took the
other to a local hospital. Police noted that the SUV owner is not
expected to face charges.

January 11, 2013

Father protects infant son from violent attack, The Columbus Dispatch,
Columbus, Ohio 01/08/12
After pulling into the driveway of his brother’s home in Columbus,
Ohio, Kelby Smith removed his 2-month-old son, still in his car seat,
from the vehicle. While still in the driveway, an armed robber
approached Smith and demanded money, prompting Smith to kneel down to
shield his son. Smith, a Right-to-Carry permit holder, handed the man
a small amount of money then drew a pistol, at which point the
criminal retreated. But during his escape, the robber turned and
pointed his gun at Smith, prompting Smith to shoot the criminal.
Police captured the wounded robber a short time later after he sought
medical treatment at a local hospital. Smith and his son were not
harmed during the incident and police have not charged the armed
citizen.

January 8, 2013

Mother of two protects children from home invader, The Atlanta Journal
Constitution, Atlanta, Ga. 01/04/13
A mother of two was home with her children in Loganville, Ga. when she
heard a repeated knocking at the door. Concerned, the mother called
her husband, who told her to “get the kids and hide.” The mother
complied, retrieving a gun and taking her children to a crawlspace. By
the time they were hidden, the criminal who had been knocking at the
door had made it inside the house and was making his way towards the
closet where the family was hiding. The home invader opened the
crawlspace door, at which point the mother fired six shots from a .38-
caliber revolver, striking the criminal five times. The mother kept
the revolver trained on the home invader as he exited the house. Once
outside, the criminal tried to flee in his vehicle, but only made it a
short distance before he was captured by police. Walton County Sheriff
Joe Chapman commented that “When you got five bullets in you, it makes
you kind of disoriented.” The proud husband praised his wife following
the incident, stating, “My wife’s a hero… She protected her kids. She
did what she was supposed to do.”

January 3, 2013

Homeowner foils pair of burglars, KVOE, Emporia, Kans. 01/02/13
Around 4 a.m., Ronald Sleisher was awakened in his home north of
Neosho Rapids, Kans., by the sound of banging at the door and breaking
glass. Sleisher retrieved a gun, went to investigate and discovered
two intruders. Sleisher fired at the pair, striking one. The homeowner
then held the other burglar at gunpoint until police could arrive. The
wounded home invader was taken to a local hospital with non-life-
threatening injuries.

December 13, 2012

Gas station clerks shoot armed robber, The Cincinnati Enquirer,
Cincinnati, Ohio 12/10/12
Two clerks were operating a Sunoco gas station in Springfield
Township, Ohio, when an armed robber entered the store and ordered one
of the clerks to “go behind the counter and get me the money.” As the
criminal went behind the counter he fired at the clerks, prompting the
pair to retrieve a .40-caliber pistol and a shotgun and fire at the
robber. Shots fired by both clerks struck the criminal, killing him. A
daily customer of the Sunoco station was puzzled as to why anyone
would attempt to rob the store, telling local media, “I know everyone
that works in there. They are all great guys. Everybody knows they
have guns. That’s why I’m surprised someone tried to rob them. It does
not make sense.”

December 11, 2012

Store owner stops knife-wielding robber, WOOD-TV, Battle Creek, Mich.
12/04/12
Pardeep Singh was working behind the counter of his family’s
convenience store, Liberty Mart, in Battle Creek, Mich. when a man
entered the store and demanded money. Singh handed over some money and
tried to calm the robber by talking to him. Unsatisfied with the
amount of cash, the criminal said he needed more money, revealed a
knife and attempted to get behind the counter. As the robber moved
towards Singh, Singh retrieved a gun and shot the criminal in the
head, ending the robbery. The wounded robber was taken to a local
hospital where he was listed in critical condition. No one else was
harmed during the incident.

December 5, 2012

AutoZone Employee Fired After Saving Manager, (WTKR, Hampton Roads,
Va. 11/30/12)
An armed robber, who police believe has robbed more than 30 businesses
on Virginia’s middle peninsula, entered an AutoZone in York County,
Va. and attempted to rob the store. Upon recognizing the criminal who
has been called the “fake beard bandit,” store employee Devin McClean
retreated to the store’s bathroom, then exited the store and headed
for his truck. McClean retrieved a pistol from his vehicle, reentered
the store and ordered the criminal to freeze as he was terrorizing
another employee. At first the bandit complied and threw his hands in
the air, but then he fled the scene. Following the incident, the
manager on duty told McClean, “thank you Devin, you really saved my
life.” Unfortunately, two days after the attempted robbery, McClean
was fired by AutoZone, whose corporate office cited a zero tolerance
policy when contacted by the media. Despite losing his job, McClean
says he wouldn’t change anything, stating, “If I can save somebody’s
life, I put that way above store policy.”

November 29, 2012

Jewelry store owner combats violent criminals, KGO-TV, San Francisco,
Calif. 11/26/2012
Two masked and armed criminals entered Joyeria Vanessa jewelry store
in San Jose, Calif. and demanded money from the owner. In response,
the owner retrieved a pistol and fired at the robbers. The shots
missed, but sent the criminals fleeing to a nearby getaway car. Police
made clear that the woman had a right to defend herself.

November 27, 2012

Woman defends son and home from burglar, The Joplin Globe, Joplin, Mo.
11/21/12
A woman was at home with her three-year-old son in Wyandotte, Okla.
when she was awakened by a knock on her door. The homeowner peered
outside, noticed a strange man at her door and retrieved a .22-caliber
pistol. The man then began breaking into the home, making it through
one of two locked doors; at which point the woman opened the inside
door and fired a shot at the criminal. The would-be burglar fled to a
waiting getaway car and proceeded to cross the state line into
Missouri. After viewing surveillance video of a nearby road, Missouri
police were able to determine the criminal’s whereabouts and make an
arrest.

November 16, 2012

Store owner fatally shoots armed criminal, The Houston Chronicle,
Houston, Texas 11/14/12, KTRK, Houston, Texas 11/15/12
A robber armed with a handgun entered a cell phone store in Houston,
Texas and attempted to rob the owner. The owner responded by
retrieving a gun and firing at the criminal, striking him twice and
causing him to flee to a nearby getaway car. The robber died after the
getaway driver took him to a hospital in Pearland, Texas. The getaway
driver is in custody.

November 13, 2012

Immigrant uses revolver to defend home, The Herald, Sharon, Pa.
11/08/12
Italian immigrant Pete Delli Bovi was at home on his couch in Sharon,
Pa. when an intruder attempted to break down his door with a brick at
3 in the afternoon. Delli Bovi, who told reporters he always keeps
his .38-caliber revolver nearby, retrieved the gun and shot the
criminal twice. The home invader fled the scene but was captured by
police after seeking treatment at a local hospital. Sharon Police
Chief Mike Menster made clear that no charges would be filed against
Delli Bovi and remarked, “This is an occupational hazard of being a
burglar – eventually, you’re going to go into the wrong house and
you’re going to get hurt.”

November 7, 2012

Wanted criminal shot by 69-year-old homeowner, The Modesto Bee,
Modesto, Calif. 11/05/12
While driving a car he stole less than 15 minutes earlier, a thief in
Ceres, Calif. spotted a 69-year-old homeowner in his garage and
attempted to rob him with a knife. The homeowner responded by
retrieving a nearby .38-caliber handgun and shooting the criminal
twice. The wounded robber fled the home but was captured by police in
a nearby yard. An investigation revealed that the criminal already had
a warrant out for his arrest, resulting from his lack of participation
in a court ordered alternative work program.

November 6, 2012

Store owner scares off masked gunman, The Tri-City Herald, Kennewick,
Wash. 11/04/12
A masked criminal, wielding what looked like a handgun, entered the
Tienda la Comadre convenience store in Hermiston, Ore. and attempted
to rob the store. Police say the robber was in the store for all of
five seconds before the owner retrieved a gun and fired at the
criminal, causing him to flee. Nothing was taken from the store.

November 2, 2012

Woman fights off two armed home invaders, The Beaufort Gazette,
Beaufort, S.C. 10/30/12
A pair of armed intruders entered a home in St. Helena Island, S.C.
and attempted to rob the 31-year-old woman who lives there. The
homeowner responded by retrieving a gun and firing at the criminals,
striking one and causing both to flee. The wounded criminal was
discovered when he turned up at the Savannah Memorial University
Medical Center seeking treatment; the other was captured a day later.
The home invaders face charges of armed robbery and attempted murder.

November 1, 2012

Woman defends home from violent intruder, The Birmingham News,
Birmingham, Ala. October 30, 2012
A 63-year-old woman suffering from congestive heart failure and
arthritis was asleep at home in Bessemer, Ala. when an armed intruder
came into her bedroom. The home invader demanded that the woman hand
over money and jewelry, and when she didn’t comply, he drew a keyhole
saw and cut her on her stomach and arm. Eventually, one of the woman’s
seven dogs alerted a guest staying at the home to the commotion. The
guest distracted the criminal long enough for the woman to retrieve a .
44-caliber revolver and shoot the criminal, who fled the scene. Police
captured the home invader a short time later after he sought treatment
at a local hospital. Following the shooting, the woman told local
media, “I have a family to protect and that’s what I did. I protected
me and mine.” The armed citizen also noted that she has been a gun
owner for more than 30 years and that “women are better with guns.”

October 23, 2012

12-year-old girl defends herself from home invader, The Oklahoman,
Oklahoma City, Okla. 10/19/12
12-year-old Kendra St. Clair was at home alone in Durant, Okla. when a
man began banging on the front door. Frightened, Kendra called her
mother at work, who told her to retrieve a .40-caliber pistol and to
hide in the bathroom closet. Kendra complied, and after calling 911,
heard the criminal break through a back door. After about six minutes
inside the home, the intruder made it to the bathroom closet where
Kendra was hiding. As the home invader attempted to open the closet,
Kendra fired at the criminal, striking him and causing him to flee.
Police captured the intruder a short time later and transported him to
a hospital. Following the incident, Kendra’s mother told local media
about how her daughter was coping, stating, “She’s a trooper… She’s
staying strong and confident. She’s handling this much better than I
would have.” When asked about her experience, Kendra told reporters,
“I kept my head on straight.”

October 19, 2012

22-year-old woman defends herself against armed home invaders, NBC
DFW, Dallas, Texas 10/18/12
A 22-year-old woman was at home alone in Dallas, Texas when a pair of
home invaders, at least one of whom was armed, kicked in the front
door. After retrieving a gun, the woman spotted the criminals as they
were headed to the second floor of the house. The woman opened fire on
the home invaders, striking one and causing both to flee. The wounded
burglar collapsed just outside the front door and was later taken to a
local hospital, where he died. The father of the armed citizen noted
that he was proud of his daughter’s actions, stating, "I'm real proud
of her because I taught her that... I taught my girls that -- to
defend themselves when someone comes to hurt them, and apparently she
listened."
FULL STORY

October 18, 2012

Vietnam vet detains home invader, WITI Milwaukee, Wis., 10/16/12
After going to bed early, a homeowner in Kenosha County, Wis. was
awakened around 8:30 p.m. by a suspicious noise. The homeowner
retrieved a .22-caliber pistol, went to investigate and found a
burglar in his basement. The homeowner shouted to the home invader, “I
got a weapon. It’s loaded. I’m prepared to shoot, come out,” at which
point the criminal gave himself up and was then held at gunpoint until
police could arrive. In an interview with local media, the homeowner
credited his service in Vietnam as preparing him for such an incident.
The home invader’s father offered an apology to the homeowner, telling
local media, “If you’re coming into my home like that, I can’t really
honestly say you’re gonna walk out like you came in. I offer any kind
of sympathy and sorrow toward that family."
FULL STORY

October 16, 2012

70-year-old woman scares off home invader, The Register-Herald,
Beckley, W.V. 10/12/12
A 70-year-old woman was asleep in her Fayette County, W.V. home, when
she was awakened by her burglar alarm. After arming herself with a .38-
caliber revolver, the woman went to investigate. When she found the
burglar, the criminal punched her in the face. The woman responded by
firing at the home invader, causing him to flee. Local law enforcement
officials have been supportive of the homeowner’s actions, with
Fayette County Sheriff Steve Kessler noting, “If the victim of the
burglary had been unarmed she could have been seriously injured or
killed when confronted by this burglar.” (The Register-Herald,
Beckley, W.V. 10/12/12)
FULL STORY

October 10, 2012

Iraq War vet uses armed self-defense, The Associated Press, 10/01/12,
The Indianapolis Star, Indianapolis, Ind. 10/08/12
Iraq War veteran Zach Rogers was on his third shift clerking at the
21st Amendment Liquor Store in Indianapolis, Ind. when he was forced
to use his Second Amendment right to self-defense. An unruly customer
instigated an argument and physical altercation with Rogers, during
which the clerk retrieved a gun and shot the criminal. Following an
investigation, a spokeswoman for the local prosecutor’s office made
clear, “the shooting was self-defense,” and that Rogers would not face
charges.
FULL STORY

October 9, 2012

72-year-old fells home invader, The Press Enterprise, Riverside
County, Calif. 10/05/12
72-year-old Jerry Duncan was asleep upstairs in his Lakeland Village,
Calif. home when he was awakened by a loud noise. After getting up to
investigate the sound, Duncan discovered that his power had been cut,
so he retrieved a flashlight and made his way downstairs. Duncan
noticed that an air conditioner had been pushed out of one of the
windows, leaving it open, so he retrieved a pistol he had kept nearby
and waited at the window. After about five minutes, a criminal
attempted to come through the window, at which point Duncan fired,
striking the man and causing him to flee. The home invader only made
it about 15 feet before collapsing dead. In recalling the incident,
Duncan explained, “All I was thinking about was defending myself… I’m
in no shape to fight anybody. I’m 72 years old.”
FULL STORY

October 8, 2012

Young woman scares off home invader, The Connecticut Post, Bridgeport,
Conn. 10/3/12
A 27-year-old woman was staying the night at her aunt’s house, when
she heard a suspicious noise. The woman retrieved a gun, went to
investigate, and spotted an intruder in her aunt’s kitchen. After he
was discovered, the home invader approached the woman, at which point
she fired, causing him to flee.
>
> They print only the examples that serve the NRA's purpose...
>
1) That you admit they are pubslihed makes LIE out of your claim that
they are "a fairy tale(s)}, Jimmy
2) The NRA's sole purpose here is to make sure that the public
realizes what a blithering idiot fool you are.

>
> ..to sell more gun to gun loons.
>

Care to discuss that "strawman" gun purchase YOU made of the Ruger 9mm
pistol yu janded your triple-murderer wife, Amy Bishop; who then used
it to _commit_ those three murders of her fellow college professors,
Jimmy?

Thought not!

"Hypocrisy; they name is James `TMT Jimmy' Anderson!"

[JohnJohnsn]

On Apr 11, 4:05 pm, Ed Huntress <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 15:47:28 -0500, RD Sandman
> <rdsandman[spamremove]@comcast.net> wrote:
>

>>Ed Huntress <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote in

>>news:8chbm8pai266qs5e8...@4ax.com:
>
>>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 15:00:45 -0500, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net>
>>> wrote:
>
>>>>"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
>>>> news:dcmam8169ifph4lk8...@4ax.com...
>
>>>>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 04:03:27 -0700 (PDT), "Robert Westergrom,1900
>>>>> Harvey rd.,Wilmington,D.E" <burtonu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> <snip>
>
>>>>>> Because guns aren't allowed on that campus. Go figger.
>
>>>>> Right. Maybe that's why he didn't have one. But you know, as the gun
>>>>> nutz frequently tell us, someone intent on mayhem will find another
>>>>> weapon if he doesn't have a gun.
>
>>>>> How did his kill ratio stack up against Adam Lanza's?
>>>>>--
>>>>>Ed Huntress
>
>>>> To maximize casualties with guns you need a liberal kill zone like
>>>> Sandy Hook Elementary.
>
>>> To maximize casualties you need, first, a gun that will lay down a
>>> lot of fire in a short time. That's why militaries all over the world use
>>> them.
>

>> Militaries use full-auto or select-fire weaponry, Ed. Civilians use
>> semi-auto.

>
> They did just fine with semi-auto before they had ARs.
> In DCM rapid-fire with M1s we had to shoot 5, reload, shoot 5.
>

Really, Ed? "5+5"???

Since the M1 Garand MBR uses an eight-round "en-bloc" clip (really: a
true "clip"!) which cannot be "downloaded" from its full eight-round
capacity (w/o extensive modifications: see below), how did you manage
to load "5;" then reload with "5" in the M1 Garand?

FYI: when I shot DCM Service Rifle Competition and National Match with
the M1 we started the round with a special two-round clip the armorers
manufactured from the original eight-round'er, then reloaded with the
regular eight-round "en-bloc" clip to complete the round.

Even a magazine-fed rifle like the M14 and M16 require a reload during
each ten-round stage of fire: Slow Fire Standing, Rapid Fire Prone
From Standing, and Slow Fire Prone (PRC) and Slow Fire Standing, Rapid
Fire Kneeling or Sitting From Standing, Rapid Fire Prone From
Standing, and Slow Fire Prone (NMC)

BTW: the 2-round'ers are now commercially-available:

M1 Garand En-Bloc Metal Clip 2-Round
http://whatacountry.com/m1garandstripperclip2-round.aspx

Aggressive Engineering M1 Garand Clip 2-Round Steel Parkerized
Notes:
•Used for Match Shooting
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/311304/aggressive-engineering-m1-garand-clip-2-round-steel-parkerized

>
> Big magazines would have made it quicker.
>

False (see above).
>
> Adam Lanza knew that.
>
So, Eddie: now you're a mind reader of the dead "child" (using the
Left-Wing DNC definition of "child" being through 24-years-of-age)
Adam Lanza, eh?

Do you do palm and tea leaves reading, too? ;)

[Scout]

"JohnJohnsn" <TopCo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5fbfe690-db05-47a8...@m4g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...

By use of the 5 round en-bloc clips that have be around for awhile.

So it's possible, back when I did it you could only readily find 8 and
2...but today they also have 5 and even singles. Not sure why you would need
an en-bloc that only holds a single round, but they make them.

> FYI: when I shot DCM Service Rifle Competition and National Match with
> the M1 we started the round with a special two-round clip the armorers
> manufactured from the original eight-round'er, then reloaded with the
> regular eight-round "en-bloc" clip to complete the round.
>
> Even a magazine-fed rifle like the M14 and M16 require a reload during
> each ten-round stage of fire: Slow Fire Standing, Rapid Fire Prone
> From Standing, and Slow Fire Prone (PRC) and Slow Fire Standing, Rapid
> Fire Kneeling or Sitting From Standing, Rapid Fire Prone From
> Standing, and Slow Fire Prone (NMC)
>
> BTW: the 2-round'ers are now commercially-available:
>
> M1 Garand En-Bloc Metal Clip 2-Round
> http://whatacountry.com/m1garandstripperclip2-round.aspx
>
> Aggressive Engineering M1 Garand Clip 2-Round Steel Parkerized
> Notes:

> �Used for Match Shooting

[Ed Huntress]

With the very common 5-round aftermarket clips. If you actually shot
in DCM competition, you know about them.

If we were going to shoot 2+8 versus 5+5, which was up to the range
officer (me), you twist two rounds into an 8-round clip and get it
into the gun before the cartridges fall out. You're likely to get your
thumb mashed doing it. It's a PITA and I much prefer the 5-round
clips. So did every DCM shooter I ever knew.

I never heard of a two-round clip but it sounds like a waste of
effort. I can't think of any good reason to do it, just to shoot 2+8.

>
>FYI: when I shot DCM Service Rifle Competition and National Match with
>the M1 we started the round with a special two-round clip the armorers
>manufactured from the original eight-round'er, then reloaded with the
>regular eight-round "en-bloc" clip to complete the round.

Why? Why didn't you just use 5-round clips? They're cheap. My club had
a pile of them.

>
>Even a magazine-fed rifle like the M14 and M16 require a reload during
>each ten-round stage of fire: Slow Fire Standing, Rapid Fire Prone
>From Standing, and Slow Fire Prone (PRC) and Slow Fire Standing, Rapid
>Fire Kneeling or Sitting From Standing, Rapid Fire Prone From
>Standing, and Slow Fire Prone (NMC)

No shit, Sherlock.

>
>BTW: the 2-round'ers are now commercially-available:
>
>M1 Garand En-Bloc Metal Clip 2-Round
>http://whatacountry.com/m1garandstripperclip2-round.aspx

Why?

>
>Aggressive Engineering M1 Garand Clip 2-Round Steel Parkerized
>Notes:
>�Used for Match Shooting
>http://www.midwayusa.com/product/311304/aggressive-engineering-m1-garand-clip-2-round-steel-parkerized
>>
>> Big magazines would have made it quicker.
>>
>False (see above).

An AR with a 30 round magazine is faster than you with your M1 and
8-round en block clips.

>>
>> Adam Lanza knew that.
>>
>So, Eddie: now you're a mind reader of the dead "child" (using the
>Left-Wing DNC definition of "child" being through 24-years-of-age)
>Adam Lanza, eh?

Up your ass, you bullshitter.

--
Ed Huntress

[JohnJohnsn]

When I fired NBPRPA (now: ODCMP) NMC forty years ago there were no "5-
rd en bloc" clips, Ed: there weren't even any commercial 2-rd'ers.
Our armorers had to fashion them from standard ones.

As you noted, trying to do it any other way often led to a case of "M1
Thumb." 8-O

>
> If we were going to shoot 2+8 versus 5+5, which was up to the range
> officer (me), you twist two rounds into an 8-round clip and get it
> into the gun before the cartridges fall out. You're likely to get your
> thumb mashed doing it. It's a PITA and I much prefer the 5-round
> clips. So did every DCM shooter I ever knew.
>
> I never heard of a two-round clip but it sounds like a waste of
> effort. I can't think of any good reason to do it, just to shoot 2+8.
>

Because back then, that was the rules.

When did you say you shot SR or NMC, Ed?

>
>> FYI: when I shot DCM Service Rifle Competition and National Match with
>> the M1 we started the round with a special two-round clip the armorers
>> manufactured from the original eight-round'er, then reloaded with the
>> regular eight-round "en-bloc" clip to complete the round.
>
> Why? Why didn't you just use 5-round clips? They're cheap. My club had
> a pile of them.
>

See above.

But it's interesting to see that the commercial firearms industry has
"stepped up" and made complying with the CMP reload rules `even' for
the M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, M14 and M16 rifles.

>
>> Even a magazine-fed rifle like the M14 and M16 require a reload during
>> each ten-round stage of fire: Slow Fire Standing, Rapid Fire Prone
>> From Standing, and Slow Fire Prone (PRC) and Slow Fire Standing, Rapid
>> Fire Kneeling or Sitting From Standing, Rapid Fire Prone From
>> Standing, and Slow Fire Prone (NMC)
>
> No shit, Sherlock.
>

No shit, Edward.

>
>> BTW: the 2-round'ers are now commercially-available:
>
>> M1 Garand En-Bloc Metal Clip 2-Round
>> http://whatacountry.com/m1garandstripperclip2-round.aspx
>
> Why?
>

Why not? :)

>
>> Aggressive Engineering M1 Garand Clip 2-Round Steel Parkerized
>> Notes:
>> •Used for Match Shooting

>> http://www.midwayusa.com/product/311304/aggressive-engineering-m1-gar...

>
>>> Big magazines would have made it quicker.
>
>> False (see above).
>
> An AR with a 30 round magazine is faster than you with your M1 and
> 8-round en block clips.
>

Not really; but you still cannot load them with more than five rounds,
Ed.

>
>>> Adam Lanza knew that.
>
>> So, Eddie: now you're a mind reader of the dead "child" (using the
>> Left-Wing DNC definition of "child" being through 24-years-of-age)
>> Adam Lanza, eh?
>
> Up your ass, you bullshitter.
>

The bullshit is beig emitted from your keyboard, Ed:

A “Qualifying Child”
FS-2005-7, January 2005

Uniform Definition
A “qualifying child” may enable a taxpayer to claim several tax
benefits, such as head of household filing status, the exemption for a
dependent, the child tax credit, the child and dependent care credit
and the earned income tax credit. Prior to 2005, each of these items
defined a qualifying child differently, leaving many taxpayers
confused.
[...]
•Age — must be under the age of 19 at the end of the tax year, or
under the age of 24 if a full-time student for at least five months of
the year, or be permanently and totally disabled at any time during
the year.
[...]
http://www.irs.gov/uac/A-%E2%80%9CQualifying-Child%E2%80%9D

As well as:

Qualifying Children as Dependents
Four tests define a qualifying child
[...]
Age — the person must be either

•under age 19 at the end of the year, or
•under age 24 and a full-time student for at least five months out of
the year, or
[...]
http://taxes.about.com/od/dependents/a/Dependents_2.htm

There's a LOT more examples of "24-year-old `children'," Ed.

So take your bullshit and stick it back into where you pulled it: out
of your A$$!

[Richard]

On 4/11/2013 5:52 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 18:03:53 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
> <cayoung61**NOJUNK**@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So the kids with good vision killed a bunch, and the nearsighted security
>> guard missed. Hmm. And, you think that's a coincidence?
>
> How do you know the kids had "good vision"? And how do you know the
> sheriff's deputy was nearsighted? My vision isn't that great, but it
> hardly matters in shooting man-sized targets at 60 yards. You center
> the fuzzy ball. When you're shooting with iron sights, even mature
> people with pretty good vision are shooting at fuzzy balls. You focus
> on the front sight.
>
> My guess is that you don't do much shooting, right?
>
> About those kids: They were on a murder-suicide mission. They were
> shooting at very close range. No problem.
>

That's actually pretty good, Ed.
You do seem to have a glimmer there.

But I gotta tell ya, the rest of you clowns have been watching too much
TV. (Ed too, probably. But he's trying)


This is actually one of the PTSD issues that returning vets have to deal
with. Disarm would probable be a better verb.


Normal people, walking around, usually pretty clueless...
When something untoward happens, it takes a while - and several levels
of escalation before they can act.

Calm - surprised - bothered - annoyed - upset - angry - pissed - rage.

That's hardly an effective combat survival model.

So you learn to go from calm to a killing rage and back to calm without
passing through the bothersome (and time consuming) intermediate steps.

It's a survival mechanism. And it works. Well.

Back home, that wonderful survival mechanism is no longer appropriate.

The wife doesn't know what to make of it.
Nor friends, nor the boss...
Neither does anybody else.

Normal people have never seen anything like that; the the sudden rage
onset and subsequent return to normal (sane?) behavior.
They think it's just violently crazy.

They don't have a proper frame of reference to understand it.
(and probably never will)

For the most part, that's the focus of combat PTSD therapy.

Learning a new way to cope with old scary circumstances.
Rewiring defense mechanisms to slower response rate.


So, a kid on a murder walk? Hyped up on mega adrenalin?
He's so focused it's unreal (literally).

He's planned this so long.
Gamed it to the last degree.
Now that he's actually doing it he has the hardest boner of his life.

And the poor security guard?
Nothing like this has ever happened to this poor bastard.
How can he possibly be prepared?



All of you fools are just fooling yourselves.
Again. It's nothing new.

You don't have a clue.

And you never will.

Thank God for that.

[Richard]

On 4/10/2013 3:13 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

>> >To maximize casualties with guns you need a liberal kill zone like Sandy
>> >Hook Elementary.

No.

That's what it looks like on the surface, of course, but no.

That's not what you need for a mass-casualty event.

What you need is surprise.

[Richard]

oh for Pete Sake!

[Ed Huntress]

Ok.

>
>When did you say you shot SR or NMC, Ed?

I shot club-level DCM Service Rifle matches from the mid-'80s until
the early '90s. Prior to that, I shot in Junior DCM (I don't know if
that was an official title; it was co-sponsored between the Police
Athletic League and the NRA for kids in their early teens, shooting
surplus M1 carbines) from 1961 to 1964.

Ah, the comparison was with loons like Adam Lanza. They seem to favor
the 30-round magazines, and they're pretty effective. I don't think he
would have done as well with an M1 and 8-round clips.

WTF is that supposed to be about?? Are you on drugs?

--
Ed Huntress