What is difference between a socialist and a communist?
JCaldw4956
with a good definition for both terms which explains the distinction between
the two. Seems to me the difference between a communist and a socialist is
that the communist just takes it to an extreme...it is a more radical form of
socialism, but their underlying philosophical basis seems to be the same.
Also, I used to think that a fascist was just the opposite of a socialist or
communist, but then I looked up the dictionary definition of FASCISM and it
said that it is a system of government with very strong foreign policies (as in
having a multiitude of strict laws/ BIG GOVERNMENT, I suppose?). Well, by that
definition just about all governments are "fascist".... most definitely our
U.S. government fits this description. So I am starting to view fascism as
about the same thing as socialism, not opposites. For the same reason, I once
saw (as I was taught in public school) the Nazis as extreme right fascists--
just the opposite of Stalinist/Leninist Communism....but NOW I am thinking that
there was really very little diifference in the philosophies of the two
governments (and certainly there was little difference in their actions).
Seems like everyone throws these terms around, but when asked for a good
definition, they can't give you one. Anyone care to shed some light on this?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Please note: if replying to me personally via e-mail, reply to:
Rayt...@bigfoot.com (my permanent re-mailer address)
Not impressed
point and maybe someone will answer you.
JCaldw4956 <jcald...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010509164700...@ng-fx1.aol.com...
GVRavel
Now that you've had a moronic response from "Not Impressed" let me delve into
your question.
Socialism is simply the theory that advocates public ownership of the means of
production. Society as a whole owns the means of production -- i.e. the
government. Communism DEMANDS the very same thing except with a twist --
everything is shared equally among the members of society.
In theory Socialism can be implemented without Communism being a part of it
but Communism (a political theory) can never be implemented without Socialism
(an economic theory) being a part of it.
GRVimont
Lifsabsurd
quickly realized that we still have the same left-wingnuts spouting the same
old bullshit. After less than a half year in power, Bush and the
Republicans have destroyed the economy of America - and of all other
countries on the planet too; Bush has destroyed the environment, in fact the
entire biosphere; the universe too, of course; and probably all chance of
inflation theory producing a new and meaningful universe somewhere in the
cosmos. All in less than half a year and with the complete innocence of all
Demoncraps. You really have to laugh at these assholes. Only problem is
that so many brain-dead Americans will actually buy this recycled garbage.
But, in answer to your question - my opinions. When one considers modern
American liberalism, various forms of socialism (including fascism,
Fabianism, communism, Marxism), and the beliefs of the mainstream Demoncrap
Party and the mainstream American media, one finds, I think, simply
variations on a single theme. What all have in common is an underlying
belief in radical egalitarianism (even the Nazis considered all Aryans
equal) and a vain and misguided wish to try to force their belief system
down the throats of people who they (paradoxically) do not respect as their
intellectual equals even in the slightest degree. By wishing to make
everyone equal, they elevate themselves to a pseudo-moral plane, in which
they actually believe that they are the "good guys," the altruists, who just
wish to help everyone, while the greedy capitalists do nothing but take care
of themselves. No morality involved in taking care of oneself, is there?
It is not, therefore, strictly economic theory nor political theory either
one, which makes these various groups so similar in
political/economic/cultural philosophy, but rather the common goal of making
everyone as nearly literally equal as they possibly can, for strictly
altruistic (but hopelessly ignorant and naive) reasons. For government (the
state, society) to own all goods and services (socialism) is for government
to be in a position to achieve radical egalitarianism by getting "from each
according to his ability," and giving "to each according to his need,"
(Marxism).
And this is exactly the principal goal of the modern American liberal.
Liberals believe the rich don't "need" tax cuts. In effect, they believe
the rich don't own their money, the government does (a socialist position).
Private ownership, as in the economics of capitalism, cannot result in
radical egalitarianism. One must have redistribution of wealth, which is
the most important guiding principle of Demoncraps. Whether it is by
differential taxation, by subsidization of selected groups of individuals,
by affirmative action, by welfare payments, by other social programs, by the
village (commune) raising children for incompetent mothers, by allowing
American women to brutally murder inconvenient, economically-handicapping,
unborn babies, or by simply trying to make all that is private (educational
systems, utility companies, health care, religious organizations, etc.) into
governmentally controlled agencies, Demoncraps are quintessential
socialists. They have the one goal that motivates all socialists, the
impossibly insane goal of achieving radical egalitarianism.
It has never worked well before. It never will. And for reasons that are
obvious when you simply consider human nature.
Personally, I am so fed up with the
Demoncraps/liberals/socialists/communists in America that I think it is time
to divide the country up. Let half of the people establish the socialist
government they want. Let the other half continue with capitalism in a
democratic republic. But be sure to build a very large wall between the two
countries. In less than 20 years, the socialist nation will be comparable
to Cuba. Its residents will be illegally immigrating to the capitalist
country to get the capitalists to take care of them. In other words, we
would be right back to where we started from, with a party of competent
people who can take care of themselves (Republicans), and a party of
Demoncrap moochers - the socialists, beggars, thieves, baby killers, and
other incompetent, assorted trash who want
Republicans/captialists/conservatives to wipe their shitty, immature, little
butts and take care of them all their worthless lives.
Democrats = socialists = liberals = incompetent and immature people
(children) who want to be taken care of by other people (adults,
conservatives, Republicans) for all of their lives.
"JCaldw4956" <jcald...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010509164700...@ng-fx1.aol.com...
richard droney
dissection of the great "ism's" of the world....capitalism, socialism,
nazism, fascism, peronism and communism.
I cannot lay my hands on that texbook a the moment...but the course was
fascinating and illuminating. To begin...socialism and communism are
similar in definition..except that socialism (Sweden...United Kingdom
(socialistic leaning) usually promotes controls or possible ownership of
some the means of production...a generous social welfare system...and a
generally higher tax rate due to the concern of society in general for the
well being of all members of that society pertaining to employment, housing,
medical care etc.
Communism sells these concepts as their basic philosophy...but usually
demands that democratic process be "suspended" while the formerly
exploitative system be purged and these idealistic concepts be implemented.
What then happens is the group who is entrusted with the restructuring of
society seizes power and becomes phoney, totalitarian, self serving
thugs...dominating and contolling all olthers under their control while
eliminating all political opposition. Communisn is phoney...as exemplified
by North Korea, Cuba, The Soviet Union and China. They become their own
mafia...controlling all aspects of society
GVRavel <gvr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010509181002...@ng-mc1.aol.com...
richard droney
dissection of the great "ism's" of the world....capitalism, socialism,
each on these isms...as opposed to a simple dictatorship.To begin..socialism
and communism are
similar in definition..except that socialism (Sweden...United Kingdom
(socialistic leaning) usually promotes controls or possible ownership of
some the means of production...a generous social welfare system...and
the
well being of all members of that society pertaining to employment, housing,
medical care etc.
Communism sells these concepts as their basic philosophy...but usually
demands that democratic process be "suspended" while the formerly
exploitative system be purged and these idealistic concepts be implemented.
What then happens is the group who is entrusted with the restructuring of
society seizes power and becomes phoney, totalitarian, self serving
eliminating all political opposition. Communisn is phoney...as exemplified
by North Korea, Cuba, The Soviet Union and China. They become their own
society. It operates in conflict with it's utopian goals due to the fact
that it's controlled by an elitist group who simply plan to exploit their
control of the society.
Peronism (Juan Peron), Nazism (Hitler), and Fascism (Mussolini) are false,
idiocyncratric "personality cult" type hybrids of a basic totalitarian
structure and theory. A strong, despotic, central figure with convoluted
theories that dictate the concentration of power in the hands of the
individual who can "save" that society from internal and external threat to
the integrity of that society. Once again...utopian societal goals are
promised after the elimination of that threat....or threats....the
jews...the socialists..the capitalists...the neighbors...whatever.
Interestingly...our system of government is abalance between democratic
socialism (demos) and democratic capitalism (repubs).The demo socialists
have a concern for society at large with a focus on fairness in the
distribution of wealth, without harming the wealthy or the owners of the
means of production. The demos in this country realize that the capitalists
and wealthy are vital members of society...but ask that they pay their fair
share of tax and provide safe, reasonably regulated workplaces, and respect
their workers overall dignity, and the environment.
The democratic capitalists in this country are driven solely by the profit
motive...and that alone. They are consciously or subconconsciously
influenced by the turn of the century Taylorian theory of labors
relationship to the owner of the means of production. The worker exists only
to work...with no limits on the expectations placed on this obligation by
outside regulatory entities. A good example of typical turn of the century
capitalist is Henry Ford...who hired thugs to patrol the Ford plant and beat
those who did not work fast enough or efficently enough. Democratic
capitalists are exploitative due to their basic nature. The Reagan rollback
in the savings and loan industry demonstrated the abuses that take place
when those motivatd by profit only are allowed to operate unchecked.
Democratic capitalists require controls...and democratic socialists provide
that needed check or balance to society.
I hope this has been helpful....it's summarizing a great deal...but pretty
accurately. We demos work to supervise and regulate the greedy,
unconscionably selfish behavior of our repub brothers and sisters. We
understand that for many of our repub societal members they have a problem
with sharing, self restraint, and any form of caretaking of those less
fortunate. The repub capitalists actually represent maybe 10% of our
society trying to manipulate another 41% of our society to vote for them by
waving false issues such as school prayer, guns etc. as a means to lull the
less astute to vote for their candidate...and against the interests of
society at large.
richard droney
Lifsabsurd
"richard droney" <rtdr...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:74lK6.13813$t12.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Took a great undergraduate political science course that focused on the
the
> dissection of the great "ism's" of the world....capitalism, socialism,
> nazism, fascism, peronism and communism. There is some theory present in
> each on these isms...as opposed to a simple dictatorship.To
begin..socialism
> and communism are
> similar in definition..except that socialism (Sweden...United Kingdom
> (socialistic leaning) usually promotes controls or possible ownership of
> some the means of production...a generous social welfare system...and
> generally has a higher tax rate due to the concern of society in general
for
> the
> well being of all members of that society pertaining to employment,
housing,
> medical care etc.
That's the theory. Government owns or controls the means of production and
distribution of wealth for the purpose of seeing to it that all members of
society, the collective, share equally in the products and wealth of the
collective. That is socialism, by definition, and it is nonsense. It makes
as much sense as the modern teaching/testing methods which assign a project
to a "team." Only member of the "team" actually understands the problem.
He does all the work, and gets it right. Then all members of the team
receive the same grade for completion of the project and the learning of
"teamwork." And they have so much hard-earned and well-deserved
self-esteem, for being a member of the "team." Barf.
There is a huge difference between a society that provides a _ bare minimum_
"safety net" for those of its members who are in dire circumstances through
no fault of their own (which I support; this means helping the disabled and
the down-on-their-luck), and a true socialist society which continues to
subsidize those who simply will not work or hold up their end of the social
contract, even when they are physically and mentally able to do so, out of a
desire to make all people equal no matter what their moral failings. The
modern American Demoncrap believes in the latter. Steal from those who
actually produce the wealth and give it on a never-ending basis to whomever
doesn't have as much, even if they are worthless druggies, lazy bastards, or
psychopathic trash. A true socialist, democratic or otherwise, wants
radical egalitarianism. Everyone must be MADE equal. As if this could
really ever possibly be done in their wildest dreams.
Democratic socialism, often referred to as Third Way Socialism, simply
_allows_ a capitalistic economy to exist, to produce the wealth in the first
place (something which truer forms of socialism fail to do, i.e., they do
not produce wealth), and then attempts to steal and redistribute it to the
non-producers, the slugs, the albatrosses of the society.
> Communism sells these concepts as their basic philosophy...but usually
> (historically)
> demands that democratic process be "suspended" while the formerly
> exploitative system be purged and these idealistic concepts be
implemented.
> What then happens is the group who is entrusted with the restructuring of
> society seizes power and becomes phoney, totalitarian, self serving
> thugs...dominating and contolling all others under their control while
> eliminating all political opposition. Communisn is phoney...as exemplified
> by North Korea, Cuba, The Soviet Union and China. They become their own
> mafia...controlling all aspects of society and the behavior within that
> society. It operates in conflict with it's utopian goals due to the fact
> that it's controlled by an elitist group who simply plan to exploit their
> control of the society.
> Peronism (Juan Peron), Nazism (Hitler), and Fascism (Mussolini) are false,
> idiocyncratric "personality cult" type hybrids of a basic totalitarian
> structure and theory. A strong, despotic, central figure with convoluted
> theories that dictate the concentration of power in the hands of the
> individual who can "save" that society from internal and external threat
to
> the integrity of that society. Once again...utopian societal goals are
> promised after the elimination of that threat....or threats....the
> jews...the socialists..the capitalists...the neighbors...whatever.
I can agree with most of the above, but you seem to fail to realize just how
phony democratic socialism is too.
> Interestingly...our system of government is abalance between democratic
> socialism (demos) and democratic capitalism (repubs).The demo socialists
> have a concern for society at large with a focus on fairness in the
> distribution of wealth, without harming the wealthy or the owners of the
> means of production.
I think not. Those who really understand Third Way Socialism, (like
Clinton, Blair, Daschle, etc.), have no sense of fairness in the
distribution of wealth whatsoever. Fairness means that privately produced
wealth belongs to the person who produced it. Fairness doesn't mean
government-controlled theft of wealth to redistribute to those who didn't
produce it.
Democratic socialists (liberals, Demoncraps), try to walk the tightrope of
allowing the competent, the capitalists, to create wealth, and then to steal
as much as they can to redistribute to the incompetent members of society,
without destroying the producers. In other words, capitalists are forced by
government to work for others in addition to themselves. Democratic
socialists believe that the non-producers of a society are not going to work
for themselves no matter what, but that someone has to take care of them,
i.e., someone has to be _forced_ by unfair taxation schemes, etc., to take
care of them. But this form of socialism won't work for long either. Look
at the price Brits pay for a gallon of gasoline and the time they wait to
get medical care. Democratic socialism will fail in Europe and in the U.S.
A flat tax is a "fair" tax. A so-called "progressive" tax is not. The ants
have neither a moral imperative nor a logical reason to go on taking care of
the grasshoppers forever. And the grasshoppers have no moral grounds to
expect them to do so.
The demos in this country realize that the capitalists
> and wealthy are vital members of society...but ask that they pay their
fair
> share of tax and provide safe, reasonably regulated workplaces, and
respect
> their workers overall dignity, and the environment.
You're right about capitalists being vital. They are the only ones actually
producing wealth. This is the only reason that modern Third Way Socialism
accepts them. But, as far as paying their fair share, that is nonsense.
They are gouged. A flat tax on personal income would mean paying one's fair
share. Demoncraps won't even allow a tax cut in a flat (fixed percentage of
taxes paid) manner, but insist that a tax cut be just another chance to
steal more from the capitalists and redistribute to those who are
non-producers. Capitalists pay roughly 40% income tax in the top bracket
but are expected to get back maybe 10% in a so-called "tax cut." The
non-producers who pay in virtually nothing are expected to get a "tax cut"
on taxes they never paid in the first place. Redistribution of wealth.
That is the way a democratic socialist/Marxist like Gephardt or Daschle
thinks.
> The democratic capitalists in this country are driven solely by the profit
> motive...and that alone.
A radical and unsupportable statement - almost comical in its stupidity.
They are consciously or subconconsciously
> influenced by the turn of the century Taylorian theory of labors
> relationship to the owner of the means of production. The worker exists
only
> to work...with no limits on the expectations placed on this obligation by
> outside regulatory entities.
You have delusions that past excesses at the dawning of the industrial age
still apply to a modern work force. Past history. Ever hear of unions?
A good example of typical turn of the century
> capitalist is Henry Ford...who hired thugs to patrol the Ford plant and
beat
> those who did not work fast enough or efficently enough.
And a good example of a Twenty First Century capitalist is Bill Gates. Does
Bill have thugs patrolling Microsoft??? Do his "workers" get paid low
wages, Comrade?
Democratic
> capitalists are exploitative due to their basic nature.
They are _productive_ due to their special nature as capitalists. ALL HUMAN
BEINGS are exploitive due to their basic nature, including the proletariat,
including minorities, including women.
The Reagan rollback
> in the savings and loan industry demonstrated the abuses that take place
> when those motivatd by profit only are allowed to operate unchecked.
That the game has to be played fairly, there is no doubt. That it is a
proper role of government to prevent fraud and unscrupulous behavior in the
marketplace there is no doubt either. But the excesses of the capitalist
are more than matched by the excesses of the labor market. Union thugs, the
mafia, racial blackmailers like Jesse Jackson, lawyers counting on lower
class jurors to award a cool million or two to some asshole who spills hot
coffee in her lap while driving (hey, it's a good way to screw those
capitalists). If you really believe that the poor workers of the world are
invariably honest, moral peasants being taken advantage of by invaribly
unethical, immoral capitalists, you are very naive indeed, Comrade. I have
worked a lot of jobs in my day. I have never met a completely honest
capitalist - nor have I ever met an honest worker. Human nature sucks. But
it is no different in the capitalist than in the worker.
> Democratic capitalists require controls...and democratic socialists
provide
> that needed check or balance to society.
Democratic socialists in America go way beyond providing for checks and
balances. They are, like all good socialists, interested in making everyone
equal, especially financially equal. And they routinely lie, steal, beg,
and cheat to accomplish that end.
> I hope this has been helpful....it's summarizing a great deal...but pretty
> accurately. We demos work to supervise and regulate the greedy,
> unconscionably selfish behavior of our repub brothers and sisters.
Nonsense. Most Demoncraps work as little as possible, except to steal from
the producers of the country. The Demoncrap politicians, the leaders, the
Bill Clintons and Daschles, are elitists in the same sense that you
described above concerning communism and fascism. They are the intellectual
"best and the brightest" who feel that they know better than everyone else
and must control society for its own good. In truth, they are of somewhat
low intelligence and exhibit mostly an arrogance born of indoctrination at
elitist schools of higher education. But they do know enough now to realize
that true socialism doesn't work because the masses want their daily fish
given to them (not to mention their daily Lexus), and are either too lazy or
too stupid to consider learning to fish for themselves. Democratic
socialism solves the problem by giving the fishermen enough free reign to
catch enough fish to be forced by governemnt to support the terminally
worthless on a daily basis.
On the other hand, the overwhelming majority of Democraps in this country
(not the leaders but the other 95%) are not elitist "intellectuals" at all.
In fact, they are nothing like their leaders. They are the drug addicts
(it's a disease, feel sorry for the poor babies and keep supplying them with
crack as well as fish); the blacks (average IQ = 85, 90% Demoncraps, all the
ones at the lowest end of the bell curve - need to fish for them every day,
feed them, and give them special dispensation for their crimes, which, of
course, are really the white man's fault); American women (about 70%
Demoncraps, those brain-washed by feminist propaganda into believing the lie
of male oppression of women, now worthless baby-murderers, misanthropes, and
useless, loveless, hopeless trash, desperately in need of the government to
take care of them and the babies they didn't murder yet, because they have
run men out of their lives); union thugs (usually low IQ types, the noble
working man - and woman - of impeccably high integrity compared to those
"greedy" capitalists - why unions members are never "greedy" - barf); the
welfare queens (6 children, 7 abortions, permanent ward of the government);
the criminals (disproportionately black, usually drug addicts, low IQ,
unwilling or unable to hold down honest jobs); and the young, naive,
hopelessly inexperienced college students (being indoctrinated by the 5% of
Demoncrap elitist trash that one finds running "politically correct"
departments of miseducation at the nation's ivy-league, hopelessly useless,
institutions of feminist/liberal/Demoncrap/socialist/Marxist
indoctrination). BTW, ever notice that, being man-haters, feminists have a
very low rate of reproduction, making them completely unfit in an
evolutionary sense. In fact, the only semblance of meaningful
"reproduction" they do is in the classroom where they turn other people's
children into raving lunatics like themselves.
We
> understand that for many of our repub societal members they have a problem
> with sharing, self restraint, and any form of caretaking of those less
> fortunate.
And we understand that those who are too lazy to take care of themselves are
born with a right to steal from those who do take care of themselves. What
could be more moral and altruistic than for the grasshoppers to fiddle away
the summer and steal from the ants in the winter? My, I am impressed. What
a wonderful, caring, sensitive person you are, Comrade Grasshopper. And you
make such a clear and insightful distinction between the terrible immorality
of _free, charitable_ giving to the needy on the part of those who can
afford to do it, versus the clearly more moral method of government mandated
and enforced "giving" in the way of differential taxation. Yes, clearly it
is more moral to _force_ a redistribution of wealth than to expect people to
give freely and charitably. Damn good thing that democratic socialists
aren't like those dictators we find in other forms of socialism, huh
Comrade?
The repub capitalists actually represent maybe 10% of our
> society trying to manipulate another 41% of our society to vote for them
by
> waving false issues such as school prayer, guns etc. as a means to lull
the
> less astute to vote for their candidate...and against the interests of
> society at large.
Geez. I hope you are still young. I would hate to think that anyone could
pass 40 years of age and still be as hopelessly brain-washed and clueless as
you remain.
richard droney
basic disagreement between the Limbaugh loving, Hooverian mentality of the
typical right winger...and the manner in which (to some degree) everyone
else in society thinks. From the left through the centrist demos AND
repubs....the demo socialist ideal has been embraced by a clear majority in
our society. That's why the minority group...Lifabsurd..... is so hostile
and crazed. They cannot turn the clock back to the good old days...and
society in general won't let them.
If you look at the reaction the Bush administration received when the
population got the feeling they were getting out of the environmental
protection business...you see that our society wants a government of
conscience that involves in regulation etc. We want decent social welfare
protection etc. and are willing to pay taxes to assure standards of decency
and concern for all in our society are upheld.
The right couldn't give a rats ass if people die in the streets...as long as
it's not their streets in Palm Springs.
We have evolved into a centrist, democratic socialist leaning society...and
that's not a bad thing. It's what benefits the majority...and seems to be
what the majority wants when you look at societal expectations in the areas
of subsidies for education, care for the elderly etc. We just have to keep a
close eye on our heartless and self centered brethren on the right.
E.E.Bud Keith
"Not impressed" <trw...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:ZIiK6.66$ym.8...@news.pacbell.net...
> First of all, liberals aren't socialists, dumb shit. Start with a cogent
> point and maybe someone will answer you.
>
socialists,however contemporary liberals
are primarily for redistribution of wealth which makes them socialists. Do
you remember from each according to his abilities and to each according to
his needs-Karl Marx
E.E.Bud Keith
What you and your bretheren are looking for is perfection in humans. You
rant and rave about big business and capitalists about how terrible they all
are.Yet you are willing to trust humans with the running of government and
the power to contrrol society. Just what do you think will happen to your
dream world when these humans have all this power. The answer to that should
be obvious to even you.They will as they did everywhere else in history
,suspend all personal rights,personal property and become a dictatorship.
This will come to pass when humans of the far left or the far right are
allowed to much power, by the people.If you think that humans will fit into
your idea of what they should be, you just do not understand human nature
CJ
news:%VuK6.13579$ks3.5...@news1.mntp1.il.home.com...
>
> "Not impressed" <trw...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:ZIiK6.66$ym.8...@news.pacbell.net...
> > First of all, liberals aren't socialists, dumb shit. Start with a cogent
> > point and maybe someone will answer you.
> >
> The same thing might be said about you. Traduitional liberals were not
> socialists,however contemporary liberals
> are primarily for redistribution of wealth which makes them socialists.
Helping people who fall on hard times, or giving a fellow American a helping
hand is not redistribution of wealth.
However, welfare has got to go.
Lone Haranguer
I figured this all out in the 50s and 60s without the help of an
undergraduate course, just observation, reading and travel.
The Democrats are just early stage Communists, convinced that Communism
will still work, provided of course that this time they are in charge.
LZ
Lifsabsurd
"richard droney" <rtdr...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:0VtK6.14405$4f7.1...@bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
the
> basic disagreement between the Limbaugh loving, Hooverian mentality of
the
> typical right winger...and the manner in which (to some degree) everyone
> else in society thinks.
You know what "everyone else" in society thinks, huh? Complete nonsense.
More liberal/socialist lying. Liberals have an engrained habit of telling
people what they (other people) think, even when they could not know and
have no good supporting evidence (the last presidential election results do
not lend strong support to your claim).
In reality liberals/socialists are just trying to tell others _what_ to
think. Psychologists call it projection. It is found commonly in
schizophrenics.
From the left through the centrist demos AND
> repubs....the demo socialist ideal has been embraced by a clear majority
in
> our society.
A clear majority? A few hundred thousand (almost certainly fraudulent)
extra votes in the popular contest, is that where you find this "clear
majority"? Bush won something like two-thirds of the states. The only
reason Gore got the popular vote (if he honestly did) is that we have
several communist states in America now - California, New York,
Massachusetts - filled with useless, worthless trash that wants the rest of
the country to take care of them. Too bad we can't give these states to
Cuba - where they belong. Centrist, democratic socialists, my ass. An
extremely large number of Gore voters were pure-bred communists, pure and
simple - like Gore himself, like you.
Furthermore, your phrase "demo socialist ideal" is comical. It immediately
brings to mind the "ideal" states of Stalin, Castro, and Mao. For a
centrist, Comrade Grasshopper, you sure do love the phraseology of extreme
left-wing socialists!
That's why the minority group...Lifabsurd..... is so hostile
> and crazed. They cannot turn the clock back to the good old days...and
> society in general won't let them.
American society, in general, today, exhibits a far-too-large segment of
hopeless, incompetent, ignorant, dependent people, who haven't a clue about
what is really in their best interests. Furthermore, they are not the noble
peasants in whose mythology you believe. For those reasons, you may be
right about one thing. The clock probably cannot be turned back, or, better
stated, it is probably impossible to prevent the destruction of a viable
America by the socialist trash.
America is now and always has been nothing more nor less than the sum of its
people. And true conservatives probably _are_ now a minority in America -
which is precisely why I doubt very much that America will survive another
50 years (certainly not bearing any resemblance to what it was for the first
200 years, in any case). Demographics change. And the number of slugs in
America is growing every day. You don't make a great country out of slugs.
Once there are too few producers and too many dependents, the entire system
will come crashing down, as do all socialistic systems. And, once this
happens, you will want to step up and take full credit for it. And you will
deserve it, too.
> If you look at the reaction the Bush administration received when the
> population got the feeling they were getting out of the environmental
> protection business...you see that our society wants a government of
> conscience that involves in regulation etc.
Wait to see the reaction of the California commies if they don't get taken
care of by conservatives at the federal government level. These California
assholes (they truly are the most pathetically stupid and worthless group of
people in the country) created their own energy crisis. They elected a
socialist/communist for governor. They listened to and practiced
environmental extremism. They are the mother of all fools. But if you
think these infantile, need-to-be-taken-care-of California commies are going
to continue to put the environment above their own selfish needs when the
blackouts start in earnest, you are an even bigger fool than I thought.
Socialist stupidity, coupled with environmental wacko extremism, not to
mention uncontrolled immigration of all those selfless, altruistic peasants
from Mexico (your heroes), has doomed California. The only way it can be
saved is for those terrible capitalists (producers, adults, people who take
care of themselves) to take care of the useless California
grasshoppers/socialists/Demoncraps/dolts one more time. As I write,
however, the grasshoppers of California are so incredibly stupid they are
still trying to hang onto environmental extremist ideas, thereby blocking
the only source of help available to them. But, mark my words. When they
are suffering enough, even these total imbeciles will choose comfort over
environmental extremism, and graciously _allow_ the ants to take care of
them (how very nice of them).
Geez. Don't you assholes ever get it? Don't you ever get ashamed of your
gross stupidity? Of your infantile behavior? Of being beggars and thieves?
Of being children all your lives? Grow up! Take care of yourselves! Get
off our backs!
We want decent social welfare
> protection etc. and are willing to pay taxes to assure standards of
decency
> and concern for all in our society are upheld.
You think the grasshoppers are willing to pay taxes to help the
grasshoppers? Pay taxes on what? They generally produce nothing of
consequence, unless one counts crimes, riots, propaganda, home-made drugs,
and whatever they manage to steal. They have nothing on which to pay income
taxes. No. You want _producers_ (conservatives, Republicans, adults) to
pay even more taxes to take care of the non-producers, the immature,
eternally dependent trash that begs for a living and has no shame, the
people who have to be taught in socialist classrooms to have self-esteem
based on being beggars and thieves, because they have no other reason in the
world to have any self-esteem whatsoever.
> The right couldn't give a rats ass if people die in the streets...as long
as
> it's not their streets in Palm Springs.
My God (if there is a God), what an idiot you really are. My first guess
was right, wasn't it? You are even younger than I thought. Less than 30
years old, right? And unbelievably clueless.
> We have evolved into a centrist, democratic socialist leaning
society...and
> that's not a bad thing. It's what benefits the majority...
Yeah, full-fledged socialism is really benefiting the majority of Cubans.
And the PRC. As it did the former Soviet Union. And the Brits and other
Europeans are just thrilled with democratic socialism. The longer it goes
on, the more it attracts the grasshoppers. Come one, come all, free lunch.
Enough! It _is_ a bad thing. It will not work. Europe is ahead of the
curve compared to the U.S. and the cracks in democratic socialism are
already beginning to show. Democratic socialism is the product of a society
in which the majority of people have already lost it, i.e., they cannot or
will not take care of themselves.
In the long run, it is simply common sense, that if you cannot take care of
yourself, you cannot take care of anyone else either.
In other words, as soon as you manage to achieve your noble goal of getting
rid of all those terrible capitalists, who the hell is going to take care of
_you_ then, Comrade Grasshopper?
and seems to be
> what the majority wants when you look at societal expectations in the
areas
> of subsidies for education, care for the elderly etc. We just have to keep
a
> close eye on our heartless and self centered brethren on the right.
You really disgust me. In my blunt opinion, you are a useless, worthless,
parasite. You preach the politics of beggars, thieves, and blood-sucking
leeches. In other words, you are a true Demoncrap - a beggar, a thief, a
parasite on society, a socialist/Marxist/liberal. When you succeed in
destroying a once great country so that it works for no one, you will not be
any happier. You will still need someone to take care of you.
Grow up, Comrade Grasshopper. Although it doesn't have the proper ring to
it, a more appropriate term would be Comrade Grasshopper Larva, emphasizing
your extreme degree of immaturity.
Lifsabsurd
Regarding:
"E.E.Bud Keith" <bud...@home.com> wrote in message
news:FEvK6.13581$ks3.5...@news1.mntp1.il.home.com...
IMHO, very well put and right on the money (Keith's comments that is).
Lone Haranguer
richard droney wrote:
>
> Sorry...sent 1st reply prior to finish..
I am sending a map. First base is over yonder, your ass is what you are
sitting on.
LZ
Lone Haranguer
Lifsabsurd gave Dickey the Drone the ass-kicking he so richly deserved.
Congratulations.
LZ
Lone Haranguer
We are the guards at the bank, your team is the bank robbers.
Bush has done NOTHING that affects the environment, it's all propaganda
from the left. Things that you never peeped about for 8 years were
changed by edict in Bubber's final days, just so you could have your
propaganda fling.
We're quite sure you are not THAT stupid but then maybe we are mistaken.
LZ
Bud Frawley
is'nt dangerous! I guess you think technology to find arsenic did'nt
improve during clinton! it DID! that's why he did'nt pass that bill
earlier they did'nt know it was dangerous! once he found out he pulled
the plug on that in a hurry! shrub says screw you! the chemical company's
which gave to his campaign are allowed to put arsenic in your drinking
water! to bad if you do'nt like it! did you evert see someone die of
arsenic poisoning? I did and it is'nt pretty I can tell you that much!
E.E.Bud Keith
"CJ" <nu...@business.com> wrote in message
news:pKvK6.90$7d.1...@newshog.newsread.com...
> "E.E.Bud Keith" <bud...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:%VuK6.13579$ks3.5...@news1.mntp1.il.home.com...
> >
> > "Not impressed" <trw...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> > news:ZIiK6.66$ym.8...@news.pacbell.net...
> > > First of all, liberals aren't socialists, dumb shit. Start with a
cogent
> > > point and maybe someone will answer you.
> > >
> > The same thing might be said about you. Traduitional liberals were not
> > socialists,however contemporary liberals
> > are primarily for redistribution of wealth which makes them socialists.
>
> Helping people who fall on hard times, or giving a fellow American a
helping
> hand is not redistribution of wealth.
Question: When you take money in the form of taxes from one group and give
it to another if its not redistribution of wealth then what is it.
E.E.Bud Keith
"Bud Frawley" <bfra...@aggregate.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:68433EAFE758A030.1B0643CB...@lp.airnews.net...
More messages from the peanut gallery.You may have seen someone die of
arsnec poisoning.but I will bet thet it was a hell of a lot bigger dose then
anyone ever found in drinking water for the last fifty years. What you
socialist dimwits fail to understand is That water can be filetered free of
arsnec but the cost is prohibative. Bush is looking at this cost trade off
to see where it is both safe and economical. If Bush would have allowed
Clintons order to go into effect several years down the road. You and your
liberal pals would be the first to scream your heads off about the price of
water.And of course you would have failed to remember (by intent) tjhat it
was Clinton who caused the price to go out of sight. About the same as all
the liberals in california who think that you can sell for less then you pay
for a product. Liberals who would not allow power plants or other energy to
be developed,and are now trying to blame everyone but themselves for the
problem
SilverBullet
"Bud Frawley" <bfra...@aggregate.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:68433EAFE758A030.1B0643CB...@lp.airnews.net...
You have got to be kidding! This is sarcasm, right Bud?
r wiley
Socialism is a debunked economic myth.
A socialist who lives in a democracy is a liberal.
A socialist in power is a communist.
rw
CJ
>
> "CJ" <nu...@business.com> wrote in message
> news:pKvK6.90$7d.1...@newshog.newsread.com...
> > "E.E.Bud Keith" <bud...@home.com> wrote in message
> > news:%VuK6.13579$ks3.5...@news1.mntp1.il.home.com...
> > >
> > > "Not impressed" <trw...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> > > news:ZIiK6.66$ym.8...@news.pacbell.net...
> > > > First of all, liberals aren't socialists, dumb shit. Start with a
> cogent
> > > > point and maybe someone will answer you.
> > > >
> > > The same thing might be said about you. Traduitional liberals were not
> > > socialists,however contemporary liberals
> > > are primarily for redistribution of wealth which makes them
socialists.
> >
> > Helping people who fall on hard times, or giving a fellow American a
> helping
> > hand is not redistribution of wealth.
>
> Question: When you take money in the form of taxes from one group and
give
> it to another if its not redistribution of wealth then what is it.
I'll answer that question with this question......do you consider the people
getting assistance when they fall on hard times wealthy? If there is a
redistribution of wealth, then the recipients better be wealthy when said
and done.
Like I said, welfare has got to go. Money going to people who just don't
want to work is BS.
But what do you suggest we do with people who fall on hard times and it
seems impossible to jump back?.....Say to hell with them?
Lifsabsurd
"Bud Frawley" <bfra...@aggregate.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:68433EAFE758A030.1B0643CB...@lp.airnews.net...
arsenic in drinking water
> is'nt (sic) dangerous! I guess you think technology to find arsenic did'nt
(sic)
> improve during clinton! (sic) it (sic) DID! that's (sic) why he did'nt
(sic) pass that bill
> earlier (sic) they did'nt (sic) know it was dangerous! once (sic) he found
out he pulled
> the plug on that in a hurry! (sic) shrub (sic) says screw you! the (sic)
chemical company's (sic)
> which gave to his campaign are allowed to put arsenic in your drinking
see someone die of
> arsenic poisoning? I did and it is'nt (sic) pretty I can tell you that
much!
From someone who likely doesn't even know the concept of concentration in a
solution much less the biochemistry of the microsomal system of the liver
and its role in detoxification of small amounts of poisons.
You have got to be joking. You label Republicans morons, while, in just one
paragraph, you produced a new all-time record for grammatical errors or
spelling mistakes. I stopped counting at 22 mistakes in eight lines of
text, for an average of 2.75 mistakes per line. I usually ignore this on
the internet, but I do think you should be singled out in this case and
given an award for exceptional and outstanding ignorance.
Furthermore you blew more smoke about research on arsenic's dangers than you
likely understand. You also asserted that Clinton acted immediately when he
realized the dangers. Funny that many other countries had lowered allowable
arsenic levels much earlier.
Clinton tried a flimsy, asinine, childish, petty setup of Bush on this one.
And it worked well - but only with the majority of his constituency, i.e.,
Demoncraps with IQs like yours - 2Ds. Y'all just lapped the bullshit up
like mother's milk. Hint: be a lot more concerned about swallowing
Clinton's toxic crap than a glass of water.
Jay A
Socialism is a social system which has as its main focus, the sharing and
distribution of products and services among its members. In a purely
socialistic society, people would work not for money, but for exchange of
products and services among each other. Such a society is generally
considered to be a utopia...a perfect society. In reality, no purely
socialistic societies really exist and this utopia is actually known to be
more of a fantasy at best.
Communism is simply a political system based in socialism. Since a true
socialistic/communistic system would rely on a true distribution of
products, services and cooperation as well, there would actually be no need
for any govt. to exist.
While many countries claim to be communist, not one on the planet truly is.
In reality those that claim such a system are nothing more than totalitarian
regimes (all power residing in a central govt.) which historically have had
no intentions of letting the system go to complete communism (and
socialism). As Marx wrote, the totalitarian govt. is necessary for a
temporary time in order to get the socialism in place...then once that is
accomplished, there would no longer be any need for the govt. since the
socialistic society would run itself. Problem is, all the totalitarian
regimes (or self proclaimed communist govts.) have no intentions of giving
up their power. Thus, countries like China, Cuba etc. etc. have never
reached true communism. They are still in the totalitarian stage
Jay
doc
"SilverBullet" <VRWC...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9dffe...@news2.newsguy.com...
Nope, Bud really is that dumb.......likely a product of our fine public
education system nowadays......
Run a Google search, this is one of his more literate posts.........
doc
>
>
Lifsabsurd
"Jay A" <jl...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:9dfrsc$qml$1...@slb5.atl.mindspring.net...
Problem is, as you say above, that this concept of socialism is pure
fantasy. It assumes more idealism than Plato's Republic, and it assumes the
existence of a people who have such unwaivering, high moral standards, that
they don't need government to make laws to protect them from themselves in
the first place.
Also, there is no "letting the system go to complete communism (and
socialism)." This would be akin to "letting" the system go completely to
the Land of Oz, or perhaps to Never-Never Land, or the Kingdom of the Fairy
Queen. A fantasy is a fantasy. You cannot "let" a system become a
non-entity.
Socialism assumes the control of goods, services, production, distribution
(the economy) by the collective, by the people, by society. But it is
impossible for the collective not to be, de facto, represented by a
centralized government, by the state, which has all the power, and which
controls the economy. It is also impossible to maintain individual rights
and freedoms in an "ideal" system in which every person is a Borg, a part of
every other person.
JCaldw4956
(LOL!) Very good, very succinctly put.
SilverBullet
"doc" <wp...@mvn.net> wrote in message news:9dh5j...@enews2.newsguy.com...
Whenever I wonder who falls for the lame propaganda coming from the likes of Daschle
all I have to do is come to a political Ng.
Lone Haranguer
I hear a Liberal's brain is like a honeycomb after the centrifuge
removes the honey. Just a storage tank on empty.
LZ
richard droney
definitions of the various "ism's", and the review of the reality of the
true centrist, democratic socialist leaning nature of our current society..I
see I have touched a real right wing button here.
The rage and frustration I see in these posts gives me a real kick. Sorry
fellows...look at social security...all other forms of social welfare
programs that are popular with the people... the various agencies enforcing
needed government regulations in the areas of education, the environment
etc....face reality.
Your cracked dreams of a 1920's world in the America of the 2000's is over.
The increasingly educated population we live in desires the protections of a
comprehansive safety net...for many reasons...but here is one.
As you have seen within the past week or so...they don't trust Bush/Cheney
as far as they can throw them...in the area of the environment as an
example. The administration is spinning like crazy trying to aviod losing
popular support as they throw the environment to the dogs...are caught at
it...and must backpedal.
A centrist, democratic socialist leaning society expecting their agencies to
enforce environmental regulations...and their President and VP to cut the
crap and get with the program (s) favored by the majority of citizens.
Uh..uh..uh...say the people. No defiling the environment to make your pals
rich...and as the B/C bunch continue to show their true colors...the
uh..uh..uh's will get louder and louder. The people are too smart for "youse
guys".
richard droney
in a nursing home, you run right down to procure her medicare benefits
(short term) and medicaid (long term) and are quite comfortable doing so.
Suddenly these democratic "socialist" benefits aren't so despicable after
all. You will even lower yourselves to walk into the Department of Social
Services to file the application. Slink in with all of your high minded
"independent" rhetoric stuffed in your back pocket....and come out with moms
benefits...thanks to the demos.
When Linus and his other right wingers get that social security check in the
mail...even if they have tens of thousands in other retirement
income...they and their other affluent repub retirees somehow find the way
to the bank to deposit that socialistic demo check. If a plan is proposed to
make the program true "social security" and terminate a high income repub
retiree ss check as a way of preserving the program for the poor elderly and
disabled who really need it...these greedy repub high income retirees (like
Linus) scream bloody murder that they "paid in" and "want their money"!!! .
Big talking right wingers who will grub for every program dollar they can
grab if they have a shot at it. They whine about how the "commies" are
taking over the country...but take advantage of every nickle they can
wheedle for themselves out of these programs they despise.
Rant and rave all you want...since Roosevelt, society has come to expect an
activist, involved, regulatory government . This is not socialism...and it
is obviously a society that is quite friendly to capitalists...or there
would not be so many of them making money. But it IS socialistic in many
aspects...and will remain so.
It's fortunate that the majority of American citizens do not feel that less
fortunates are not all "scum" and worse as you have described them...but
feel that, in the spirit of the Judeo-Christian idea of "there but for the
grace of God go I" are caring enough to allocate some resources for the care
and supervision of those who struggle.
Someone very close to me is a social worker who supervises a caseload of
retarded adults who just cannot manage their lives. They receive casework
service...money management assistance etc...and without these services...and
social security disability would just what??? starve in the streets?? Are
these the scum you are referring to??
At this point the social services provided through county resources are
these types and "workfare" programs that push borderline individuals into
the workforce. Terminate these programs??
How about Adult Protective and Child Protective Services?? Let the elderly
and children in your community be abused...neglected...does that type of
service piss you off???
By the way...some of the highest rates of spousal and child abuse occur in
military communities...we need beaucoup social workers in Jacksonville and
Fayetteville North Carolina...as the troops beat the crap out of their wives
and children...but Linus knows that.
No boys...you can rave and rant all you want...but we are s different
society than we were...and can never go back. Pay your taxes and shut your
pieholes...it's the way it is.
GHouck
>
> richard droney wrote:
> >
> > Took a great undergraduate political science course that focused on the the
> > dissection of the great "ism's" of the world....capitalism, socialism,
> > nazism, fascism, peronism and communism. There is some theory present in
> > each on these isms...as opposed to a simple dictatorship.To begin..socialism
> > and communism are
>
> I figured this all out in the 50s and 60s without the help of an
> undergraduate course, just observation, reading and travel.
>
> The Democrats are just early stage Communists, convinced that Communism
> will still work, provided of course that this time they are in charge.
Following your 'logical' course then, Conservatives (or
Republicans) are "just early stage" Nazis, "convinced that"
they are the Master Race, know what is best for everyone
else (since they've been observing, reading and travelling?),
and determined to make sure that "they are in charge".
And just what makes them think they are the Master Race?
Why, it's the guns of course. They have 'em, and I guess
we won't. Can't get any more macho-Masterful than that.
ghouck
Lone Haranguer
You can believe your own propaganda dickey. Democrats do that a lot
since reality is too harsh for them.
LZ
richard droney
to me. Since you found out I was a Catholic it threw you off your game.
You'll come around...somewhere in there is a reasonable person...just stay
away from nutcases like jake..and things will work out.
Lone Haranguer
richard droney wrote:
>
> You right wing creeps give me a laugh...
It's a mirror doofus.
when your mother needs to be placed
> in a nursing home, you run right down to procure her medicare benefits
> (short term) and medicaid (long term) and are quite comfortable doing so.
My mother is 94 and still paying her way. She gets a small check based
on my father's earnings, the rest comes from her savings. She is on
"assisted living" now, costs about $1900 a month plus she pays for all
her medications.
> Suddenly these democratic "socialist" benefits aren't so despicable after
> all.
What is despicable is that they were designed as a scam. Had they been
designed as an annuity, with the same rules the government requires of
insurance companies, it would have been far more honest. Many people
would have retired as millionaires and it would have been THEIR money.
It was designed this way to keep the elderly on the dole and in fear of
the Democrats to the day they died.
YOU may be fooled. We are not.
You will even lower yourselves to walk into the Department of Social
> Services to file the application. Slink in with all of your high minded
> "independent" rhetoric stuffed in your back pocket....and come out with moms
> benefits...thanks to the demos.
You don't know shit, as usual. You get a letter with your Medicare card
attached. No response is required UNLESS you do not wish to enroll in
Part "B".
> When Linus and his other right wingers get that social security check in the
> mail...even if they have tens of thousands in other retirement
> income...they and their other affluent repub retirees somehow find the way
> to the bank to deposit that socialistic demo check.
Because I was FORCED to pay in. It was not a volunteer program. Had I
been able to invest it in land I would have been much better off.
If a plan is proposed to
> make the program true "social security" and terminate a high income repub
> retiree ss check as a way of preserving the program for the poor elderly and
> disabled who really need it...these greedy repub high income retirees (like
> Linus) scream bloody murder that they "paid in" and "want their money"!!! .
If you don't want yours I'm sure some deserving college student can be
found.
> Big talking right wingers who will grub for every program dollar they can
> grab if they have a shot at it. They whine about how the "commies" are
> taking over the country...but take advantage of every nickle they can
> wheedle for themselves out of these programs they despise.
They are the ones who pay for them. Higher the income, the higher the
amounts paid in.
> Rant and rave all you want...since Roosevelt, society has come to expect an
> activist, involved, regulatory government . This is not socialism...and it
> is obviously a society that is quite friendly to capitalists...or there
> would not be so many of them making money. But it IS socialistic in many
> aspects...and will remain so.
As long as the Democrats can buy votes anyway.
> It's fortunate that the majority of American citizens do not feel that less
> fortunates are not all "scum" and worse as you have described them...but
> feel that, in the spirit of the Judeo-Christian idea of "there but for the
> grace of God go I" are caring enough to allocate some resources for the care
> and supervision of those who struggle.
Your halo needs polish.
> Someone very close to me is a social worker who supervises a caseload of
> retarded adults who just cannot manage their lives. They receive casework
> service...money management assistance etc...and without these services...and
> social security disability would just what??? starve in the streets?? Are
> these the scum you are referring to??
No, those are the ones who work for cash and collect food stamps. Those
are the ones that have 3 welfare cards at the cash register, all in
different names and addresses. Those are the 300 pounders who never
worked a day in their lives and DEMAND that society owes them the same
income that hard workers receive.
> At this point the social services provided through county resources are
> these types and "workfare" programs that push borderline individuals into
> the workforce. Terminate these programs??
> How about Adult Protective and Child Protective Services?? Let the elderly
> and children in your community be abused...neglected...does that type of
> service piss you off???
> By the way...some of the highest rates of spousal and child abuse occur in
> military communities...we need beaucoup social workers in Jacksonville and
> Fayetteville North Carolina...as the troops beat the crap out of their wives
> and children...but Linus knows that.
I've heard it and read it but never experienced it. In 21 years my
family only had government housing for 4 months. That was in Straubing
Germany and was mandatory because I was NCOIC of the Weather Station and
the Army couldn't get along without me.
> No boys...you can rave and rant all you want...but we are s different
> society than we were...and can never go back. Pay your taxes and shut your
> pieholes...it's the way it is.
Take a boat to Cuba. They miss you.
LZ
richard droney
of your fervor)..and as you know, your mother is an exception. I'm not going
there...she is fortunate to have her health for so long and to have remained
independent. Good for her...
Now...the nursing homes are filed with those who are not as fortunate.. it's
just the way it is.
Linus...the departments of social services are filled with workers
concentrating on "workfirst" type programs...the myth of malingering welfare
kings and queens is just that...a myth. There is aid for dependent
children...but adults who are serviced in any meaningful long term way are
the ones I described...retarded but not institutionalized, chronic emotional
problems etc. These DSS offices also have active fraud departments....it's
very hard to get away with anything.
You and your buddies are tilting at windmills that are not there.
Lastly...I do not very many elderly OR disabled people who are fortunate
enough to have social security and feel it is a scam. I know that my parents
were very grateful to have those checks each month.
The thing about alternatives to this is that there is no guarantee that
investments will thrive. Your right wing Fox News channel had an expert on
today who said that the stock market was "flat" from 1962 to 1982...took off
during early Reagan (when folks bought his line of crap)..crashed in 1986
(when his line of crap crashed)..soared during the Clinton years...and have
flattened out at this time. It's a roller coaster.
Give up this right wing crap Linus...the priests and nuns would be very
disappointed in your abandonment of the principles of "good samaritanism"
you were taught.
And..uh..Saint Linus..what was he the patron saint of??? Retired military
gone wrong??
Lone Haranguer
Your brain has advanced but not by much. I see you didn't bother to
deny my remarks but just to post some irrelevant babblespeak.
Since the Republicans are made up of various races they show little
resemblance to Nazis. Master race? Master brain, obviously.
Ever heard of Pick's disease? You have it.
LZ
Lone Haranguer
richard droney wrote:
>
> Linus..that was one of your milder replies...I think you're getting attached
> to me.
I feel this sucking sensation. I think it's the other way around.
Since you found out I was a Catholic it threw you off your game.
No way. This entire area is 90% Catholic and we have our full
complement of assholes. Not much crime but plenty of asshole Liberals
which is really redundant.
> You'll come around...somewhere in there is a reasonable person...just stay
> away from nutcases like jake..and things will work out.
Everybody will tell you I am one of the most reasonable people on this
planet. You just have to agree with me.
Jake may be a nutcase but he is an intelligent nutcase and also funny.
I reserve the right to associate with nutcases. You have Gary Lantz and
Roselle so you are in no position to cast stones.
LZ
Lone Haranguer
richard droney wrote:
>
> Linus...ya gotta go to DSS to file for medicaid. (You seem to have lost some
> of your fervor)..
Obviously I didn't comment because I have no experience with it.
and as you know, your mother is an exception. I'm not going
> there...she is fortunate to have her health for so long and to have remained
> independent. Good for her...
> Now...the nursing homes are filed with those who are not as fortunate.. it's
> just the way it is.
No kidding. My youngest daughter is an administrator of a large nursing
home. I get the scoop daily.
> Linus...the departments of social services are filled with workers
> concentrating on "workfirst" type programs...the myth of malingering welfare
> kings and queens is just that...a myth.
Oops. My daughter in law has about 18 years working in Social
Services. I get frequent updates on the deadbeat front.
There is aid for dependent
> children...but adults who are serviced in any meaningful long term way are
> the ones I described...retarded but not institutionalized, chronic emotional
> problems etc. These DSS offices also have active fraud departments....it's
> very hard to get away with anything.
California alone had a billion dollars in Medicare fraud last year if I
recall correctly. My daughter-in-law is in a supervisory position now
and with Governor Ventura she finally has the clout to make changes. As
long as the Democrats ran the governor's office and both houses, fraud
in welfare was acceptable. That is how Democrats buy votes.
> You and your buddies are tilting at windmills that are not there.
> Lastly...I do not very many elderly OR disabled people who are fortunate
> enough to have social security and feel it is a scam. I know that my parents
> were very grateful to have those checks each month.
Sure they were. The point is they would have been just as happy getting
annuity checks which represented their own investments in a government
run annuity. They would not have had to worry about solvency or which
party was running things.
Didn't you read my post? Have you ever looked at how annuities work?
> The thing about alternatives to this is that there is no guarantee that
> investments will thrive. Your right wing Fox News channel had an expert on
> today who said that the stock market was "flat" from 1962 to 1982...took off
> during early Reagan (when folks bought his line of crap)..crashed in 1986
> (when his line of crap crashed)..soared during the Clinton years...and have
> flattened out at this time. It's a roller coaster.
There used to be commercial annuities that GUARANTEED 7% return for
your entire life. One was the "Shatterproof Nest Egg" sold by North
Central Insurance Co. It had a $100,000 term policy with it. You put
in what was affordable but the minimum was $30 month. Even though it
was front-loaded and started slow it gave you one hell of an annuity or
a huge lump sum when you turned 65. Compare that with the return on
Social Security. Explain to me why this type annuity could not have
been an option? Anything put into this plan could have been given
credits as SS contributions.
Get out the calculator and figure a 7% return, compounded quarterly with
$30/month for 45 years. Keep in mind that SS contributions would have
continued but $30/month would have gone into the annuity instead of SS.
The $30/month also paid for the low-cost term insurance. The amount
decreased (as did the premium) as the balance in the annuity grew.
> Give up this right wing crap Linus...the priests and nuns would be very
> disappointed in your abandonment of the principles of "good samaritanism"
> you were taught.
The priests and nuns I knew were to the right of Hitler. The Catholic
religion has its good points but it is a dictatorship nonetheless.
> And..uh..Saint Linus..what was he the patron saint of??? Retired military
> gone wrong??
I've forgotten but he was the second Pope. A Brit but he never got the
press that St. Peter did. BTW, Linus is a very common name in these
parts. If you were paying attention during Mass, he is mentioned along
with the other ranking Saints during every Mass service. You probably
dozed off......
LZ
richard droney
year"
I hate to tell you this...but the MEDICARE fraud that is prevalent in
Califirnia is mostly practiced NOT by the poor, elderly and disabled
patients...it's the fraudulent conspiracy between the crooked doctors and
medical equipment businesses that do the lions share of the ripping off.
These perpetrators are usually affluent and difficult to nail with the
investigation resources available...but progress is being made. 60 minutes
did a special segment on this problem.
The bad news for your republican ass is that the fraud is practiced by
crooked and greedy REPUBLICAN OPPORTUNISTS!!!..
now ain't that a kick in the head???...
By the way...if your daughter works for DSS and is filled with that much
contempt for the clients...she is in the wrong profession...she should have
a much more professional and compassionate nature to work with those people
..or do something else.
Sorry Lone...hate to hurt your feelings.
Lone Haranguer
richard droney wrote:
>
> Lone said..."California alone had a billion dollars in Medicare fraud last
> year"
> I hate to tell you this...but the MEDICARE fraud that is prevalent in
> Califirnia is mostly practiced NOT by the poor, elderly and disabled
> patients...it's the fraudulent conspiracy between the crooked doctors and
> medical equipment businesses that do the lions share of the ripping off.
They have plenty of willing participants in perpetrating the frauds.
The claimants who sign blank forms and never question the billings are
equally guilty. How many get to share in the proceeds?
> These perpetrators are usually affluent and difficult to nail with the
> investigation resources available...but progress is being made. 60 minutes
> did a special segment on this problem.
Hoo Boy 60 minutes where fiction and truth are woven into a solid cloth
of fantasy.
> The bad news for your republican ass is that the fraud is practiced by
> crooked and greedy REPUBLICAN OPPORTUNISTS!!!..
> now ain't that a kick in the head???...
As convicted by whom? 60 minutes? Har de har.
> By the way...if your daughter works for DSS and is filled with that much
> contempt for the clients...she is in the wrong profession...she should have
> a much more professional and compassionate nature to work with those people
> ..or do something else.
It's a daughter-in-law and she does her job well. She has recovered
mucho dinero in fraudulent claims from the welfare cheats. She even
checks out the Lotto winners in case any are not reporting income. She
would make a good detective.
A DSS employee who lets people cheat the taxpayer is not "compassionate
and professional" but an incompetent boob. I think we should be
checking your books.
> Sorry Lone...hate to hurt your feelings.
Right. You'll need at least something in .30 caliber with ball ammo.
LZ
richard droney
A DSS employee who lets people cheat the taxpayer is not "compassionate
and professional" but an incompetent boob. I think we should be
checking your books.
OK now...I see...your d-in-law is a fraud investigator. Good for you...no
one said that there were no crooks in the world...benefits fraud is a
problem that (as I said) is taken care of by DSS fraud investigation units.
Their job is to identify any misuse of the assistance offered....I am sure
she loves her job. I knew she couldn't be a social worker...you'd throw her
out of the family.
It remains a certainty that any professional who works in a DSS must be
"professional and compassionate" or they aren't worth a shit as a human
service professional. Those who attempt to assist their fellow man are not
"incompetent boobs"...and no DSS employee sets out to allow cheating...where
do those phucked up thoughts of yours come from?
One more thing...the nickles and dimes your d-in-law chases around are
peanuts compared to the billions the crooked politicians and military
industrialists have stolen fro this country. White collar crime my
friend...that's where the big money is.
I provide a supervisory service myself...and act as a guardian of the
taxpayers interests. Thanks in advance for your appreciation...but I don't
have "books"...and I appreciate your ungentlemanly insult regarding my
honesty. I will refrain from replying in kind.
Lone Haranguer
richard droney wrote:
>
> Lone said...
> A DSS employee who lets people cheat the taxpayer is not "compassionate
> and professional" but an incompetent boob. I think we should be
> checking your books.
>
> OK now...I see...your d-in-law is a fraud investigator.
Wrong.
Good for you...no
> one said that there were no crooks in the world...benefits fraud is a
> problem that (as I said) is taken care of by DSS fraud investigation units.
> Their job is to identify any misuse of the assistance offered....I am sure
> she loves her job. I knew she couldn't be a social worker...you'd throw her
> out of the family.
She's a social worker. Just not a stupid one. She knows she will have
the money to serve needy clients if she keeps the fraud to a minimum; so
she goes that extra mile.
> It remains a certainty that any professional who works in a DSS must be
> "professional and compassionate" or they aren't worth a shit as a human
> service professional. Those who attempt to assist their fellow man are not
> "incompetent boobs"...and no DSS employee sets out to allow cheating...where
> do those phucked up thoughts of yours come from?
Must be your phucked up wording.
> One more thing...the nickles and dimes your d-in-law chases around are
> peanuts compared to the billions the crooked politicians and military
> industrialists have stolen fro this country. White collar crime my
> friend...that's where the big money is.
Very true. No politician retires in poverty. Even Roger Clinton and
Hillary's brothers got rich just hanging around with bill & hill.
> I provide a supervisory service myself...and act as a guardian of the
> taxpayers interests. Thanks in advance for your appreciation...but I don't
> have "books"...and I appreciate your ungentlemanly insult regarding my
> honesty. I will refrain from replying in kind.
Then don't make stupid statements dickey.
LZ
richard droney
citizens center...and say hi to your nazi social worker family member for
me. She's unique in her field.
Lone Haranguer
Sorry. A donkey's ass makes such an easy target.
LZ