Bush loses ground with military families/USO
dl
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/3691/thumbs/r-MILITARY-FAMILES-large.jpg
http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/timespoll/la-na-militpoll7dec07,0,4843202.story?coll=la-home-center
A majority disapprove of the president's handling of the war in Iraq
and are more in line with the views of the general public.
By Faye Fiore, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
December 7, 2007
WASHINGTON -- Families with ties to the military, long a reliable
source of support for wartime presidents, disapprove of President Bush
and his handling of the war in Iraq, with a majority concluding the
invasion was not worth it, a Los Angeles Times/Bloomberg poll has
found.
The views of the military community, which includes active-duty
service members, veterans and their family members, mirror those of
the overall adult population, a sign that the strong military
endorsement that the administration often pointed to has dwindled in
the war's fifth year.
Nearly six out of every 10 military families disapprove of Bush's job
performance and the way he has run the war, rating him only slightly
better than the general population does.
And among those families with soldiers, sailors and Marines who have
served in Iraq or Afghanistan, 60% say that the war in Iraq was not
worth the cost, the same result as all adults surveyed.
"I don't see gains for the people of Iraq . . . and, oh, my God, so
many wonderful young people, and these are the ones who felt they were
really doing something, that's why they signed up," said poll
respondent Sue Datta, 61, whose youngest son, an Army staff sergeant,
was seriously wounded in Iraq last year and is scheduled to redeploy
in 2009. "I pray to God that they did not die in vain, but I don't
think our president is even sensitive at all to what it's like to have
a child serving over there."
Patience with the war, which has now lasted longer than the U.S.
involvement in World War II, is wearing thin -- particularly among
families who have sent a service member to the conflict. One-quarter
say American troops should stay "as long as it takes to win." Nearly
seven in 10 favor a withdrawal within the coming year or "right away."
Military families are only slightly more patient: 35% are willing to
stay until victory; 58% want the troops home within a year or sooner.
Here, too, the military families surveyed are in sync with the general
population, 64% of whom call for a withdrawal by the end of next year.
"You generally expect to see support for the president as commander in
chief and for the war, but this is a different kind of war than those
we've fought in the past, particularly for families," said David
Segal, a military sociologist at the University of Maryland.
Today's all-volunteer force is older and more married than any before
it. Facing a shortage of troops, the Army increased the maximum
enlistment age from 35 to 42 and called up reservists, who tend to be
older and more settled than recruits fresh out of high school. The
result is a fighting force that left thousands of spouses and children
behind.
At the same time, deployments have grown longer and more frequent as
troops rotate in and out of the war zone, sometimes three and four
times, with no fixed end date in sight, a wearing existence that has
contributed to opposition to Bush and his war strategy.
"The man went into Iraq without justification, without a plan; he just
decided to go in there and win, and he had no idea what was going to
happen," said poll respondent Mary Meneely, 58, of Arco, Minn. Her
son, an Air Force reservist, served one tour in Afghanistan. "There
have been terrible deaths on our side, and it's even worse for the
Iraqi population. It's another Vietnam."
The survey, conducted under the supervision of Times Poll Director
Susan Pinkus, interviewed 1,467 adults nationwide from Nov. 30 through
Monday. It included 631 respondents from military families and 152 who
have had someone in their family stationed in Iraq or Afghanistan. The
margin of error for the entire sample is plus or minus 3 percentage
points; for military families it is 4 percentage points, and for
families with someone in the war zone it is 8 percentage points.
Other surveys have shown an erosion of support for Bush and the war
among military personnel, including a 2005 poll by Military Times of
their active-duty readers.
Now the disapproval of Bush appears to have transferred to his party.
Republican leanings of military families that began with the Vietnam
War -- when Democratic protests seemed to be aimed at the troops as
much as the fighting -- have shifted, the poll results show.
When military families were asked which party could be trusted to do a
better job of handling issues related to them, respondents divided
almost evenly: 39% said Democrats and 35% chose Republicans. The
general population feels similarly: 39% for Democrats and 31% for
Republicans.
"The Democrats are not seen as the anti-soldier group anymore," said
Charles C. Moskos, a military sociologist at Northwestern University.
He added that Bush's firm backing of the troops did not gain him any
points because the entire country was now viewed as supportive of the
military, even if not of the war. "He doesn't get extra credit for
that."
"We support the troops; we don't support Bush," said respondent Linda
Ramirez, 52, of Spooner, Wis., whose 19-year-old son is due to be
deployed with the Marines early next year. "These boys have paid a
terrible, terrible price."
The carnage -- nearly 3,900 killed and 29,000 wounded -- is
contributing to the war's unpopularity, even though the number of dead
is low compared with previous wars, Moskos thinks.
Medical advances on the battlefield have saved more lives but sent
home more severely injured troops; for every soldier killed in Iraq
and Afghanistan, eight are wounded -- nearly triple the ratio in
Vietnam.
Asked about the Bush administration's handling of the needs of active-
duty troops, military families and veterans, 57% of the general public
disapprove. That number falls only slightly among military families --
53% give a thumbs-down.
And most military families and others surveyed took no exception to
retired officers publicly criticizing the Bush administration's
execution of the war. More than half of the respondents in both groups
-- 58% -- say such candor is appropriate. Families with someone who
had served in the war are about equally supportive at 55%.
faye....@latimes.com
* * * * * * * *
Laura Schlessinger does't mentioned equipment or many other problems:
ATTENTION Laura Schlessinger: Helicopter Shortage Hurting Afghan
Mission
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.royalty/browse_frm/thread/f6761771f28e8024#
Police Secrecy Behind Unmanned Aircraft Test
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.royalty/browse_frm/thread/44a9144bcc20127b#
Military families do need help but too much cheerleading promotes war,
not our troops. Her close relationship with Mike Cash and the DoD is
dubious...
$1 trillion missing
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/05/18/MN251738.DTL
$1B In Military Equipment
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/12/06/iraq/main3584247.shtml
They can't audit the DoD. Are these people to trust for charity? Why
was Laura Schlessinger on Bill O'Reilly trashing the USO? The USO has
been successful helping the military for decades.
http://multi-medium.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/oreilly.jpg
http://freedemocracy.blogspot.com/2007/11/oreilly-bitches-and-whines-for-military.html
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/27/oreilly-drlaura/
Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon England
http://bp1.blogger.com/_0qTU784XP0M/R0uNtMb4RjI/AAAAAAAACFY/anMYCPjFjEI/s1600-h/Gordon+R+England.jpg
Mike Cash
http://www.defenselink.mil/dodcmsshare/newsstoryPhoto/2007-07/scr_070730-D-8901Q-001.jpg
America Supports You, DoD,Gordon England,Mike Cash,Laura
Schlessinger,Bill O'Reilly all peas in a pod
Why go after the USO?
kangarooistan
> Bush loses ground with military familieshttp://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/3691/thumbs/r-MILITARY-FAMILES-l...http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/timespoll/la-na-militpoll7dec07,0,...
> * * * * * * * *
> Laura Schlessinger does't mentioned equipment or many other problems:
> ATTENTION Laura Schlessinger: Helicopter Shortage Hurting Afghan
> Police Secrecy Behind Unmanned Aircraft Testhttp://groups.google.com/group/alt.royalty/browse_frm/thread/44a9144b...
>
> Military families do need help but too much cheerleading promotes war,
> not our troops. Her close relationship with Mike Cash and the DoD is
> dubious...
> $1B In Military Equipmenthttp://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/12/06/iraq/main3584247.shtml
> They can't audit the DoD. Are these people to trust for charity? Why
> was Laura Schlessinger on Bill O'Reilly trashing the USO? The USO has
>
> Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon Englandhttp://bp1.blogger.com/_0qTU784XP0M/R0uNtMb4RjI/AAAAAAAACFY/anMYCPjFj...
> Mike Cashhttp://www.defenselink.mil/dodcmsshare/newsstoryPhoto/2007-07/scr_070...
>
> America Supports You, DoD,Gordon England,Mike Cash,Laura
> Schlessinger,Bill O'Reilly all peas in a pod
>
> Why go after the USO?
wont be long now
War Office
> On Dec 7, 7:53 pm, dl <lol7...@msn.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> > Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon Englandhttp://bp1.blogger.com/_0qTU784XP0M/R0uNtMb4RjI/AAAAAAAACFY/anMYCPjFj...
> > Mike Cashhttp://www.defenselink.mil/dodcmsshare/newsstoryPhoto/2007-07/scr_070...
>
> > America Supports You, DoD,Gordon England,Mike Cash,Laura
> > Schlessinger,Bill O'Reilly all peas in a pod
>
> > Why go after the USO?
>
> wont be long now
>
> http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/WARCRIMES1.jpg
Kanga men this powerful must be executed. The powers that be will take
a long time to round up and there is nothing stopping them from doing
a black-op to bust their boys out of prison. They must be executed so
that we are certain justice in part has finally been done.
dl
By: Jane Hamsher Saturday December 8, 2007 6:39 am
http://firedoglake.com/2007/12/08/military-community-disapproves-of-bush-thinks-hes-bungling-war/
Saturday December 8, 2007 6:39 am
Contrary to what the Republicans have been constantly bleeting, people
surveyed within the military community (including active-duty service
members, veterans and their family members) have opinions about Bush
and his handling of the war that are roughly in line with what the
rest of the country thinks, i.e., it sucks. Sixty-four percent call
for withdrawal by the end of next year:
[.:.] Other surveys have shown an erosion of support for Bush
and the war among military personnel, including a 2005 poll by
Military Times of their active-duty readers.
Now the disapproval of Bush appears to have transferred to his
party. Republican leanings of military families that began with the
Vietnam War -- when Democratic protests seemed to be aimed at the
troops as much as the fighting -- have shifted, the poll results show.
When military families were asked which party could be trusted to
do a better job of handling issues related to them, respondents
divided almost evenly: 39% said Democrats and 35% chose Republicans.
The general population feels similarly: 39% for Democrats and 31% for
Republicans.
"The Democrats are not seen as the anti-soldier group anymore,"
said Charles C. Moskos, a military sociologist at Northwestern
University. He added that Bush's firm backing of the troops did not
gain him any points because the entire country was now viewed as
supportive of the military, even if not of the war. "He doesn't get
extra credit for that."
"We support the troops; we don't support Bush," said respondent
Linda Ramirez, 52, of Spooner, Wis., whose 19-year-old son is due to
be deployed with the Marines early next year. "These boys have paid a
terrible, terrible price." [.:.]
Most military families also thought that it was appropriate for
retired officers to be publicly criticizing BushCo's handling of the
war.
What is the "leadership-as-photo-op" crowd at the White House going to
do when they learn that a flight suit and a codpiece just isn't enough
any more?
Meanwhile, Big Tent Democrat thinks that Hoyer and Emanuel are
"determined to own the Iraq debacle." Kinda like all those folks who
thought sweeping up Enron stock for pennies after it crashed was a
really sweet deal.
Clever fellows.
* * * * * * * *
$1BILLION MISSING
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.homosexuality/browse_thread/thread/2b81a81ef545e9bf
Navy Chaplain Gets Two Years
http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/20071206_navy_chaplain_gets_two_years_for_sex_abuse/
NATO starts a new offensive.
Seeks To Retake Taliban Haven 12/08/07
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan, Dec. 7 -- Residents fled their homes in southern
Afghanistan on Friday as NATO forces mounted an offensive to retake
the town of Musa Qala
"The coalition troops are getting closer to Musa Qala town; they are
just 10 kilometers away," said Niamat Jan, a shopkeeper. "They dropped
three bombs on the town. I don't know what the casualties were. All
the entrances to the town have been blocked by them.
It is not clear if the Taliban will try to defend the town or pull
back into the hills.
"This situation really made us crazy -- we are running, where to go,
how to go and how to protect our women and children from this
cataclysm," he (Mahmood, a doctor living in the town) said.
Aminullah, a shopkeeper, said: "The situation is worsening quite a
bit. Coalition forces are getting closer to Musa Qala. They are in
great numbers, around 500 tanks and vehicles, and helicopters are
circulating nearby." (Afghans commonly describe British armored
vehicles mounted with a machine gun as tanks.)
http://onpoint.uscav.net/blogs/reconstructing_iraq/archive/2007/12/08/11016.aspx
December 8, 2007
I found some photos from Afghanistan I thought I had lost
http://www.inkstainedhands.com/2007/12/i-found-some-photos-from-afghanistan-i.html
Afghanistan's humanitarian needs growing
http://e-news-center.blogspot.com/2007/12/afghan-news-december-7-2007.html#13
* * *||* * *
'Grace Is Gone'
http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/reviews/2007-12-06-grace-is-gone_N.htm
* * *||* * *
"When you're the mother of somebody in the military, you're the mother
of everybody in the military." LAURA SCHLESSINGER
It's Afghanistan, do you know what your children are doing?
PHOTO: I loved stoping next to the field of goodness.
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=27816851&albumID=0&imageID=18275819
PHOTO: sleeve. Afghanistan
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=17802336&albumID=488193&imageID=4506321
PHOTO: tape face
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=14682209&albumID=337533&imageID=12849544
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=14682209&albumID=337533&imageID=1419313
PHOTO: IED's...arent they fun?
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=59294435&albumID=1447470&imageID=17870240
PHOTO: Tora Bora
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=189899021&albumID=1107426&imageID=12601222
PHOTO: patrol
http://bp3.blogger.com/_0qTU784XP0M/RtSRwyxyxDI/AAAAAAAABeY/Ee7a6Wj1vfk/s1600-h/afghanistan+IG.jpg
PHOTO: The obligatory Afghanistan marijuana photo. It's everywhere
in this country.
http://www.partamian.net/blog/uploaded_images/DSC00111-784292.JPG
PHOTO: smoking opium
http://bp3.blogger.com/_0qTU784XP0M/Rw7J8kZVbRI/AAAAAAAAB6c/3cPsWElfxo4/s1600-h/opium+smoke.jpg
VIDEO: Ashes to Ashes, Gascans and Matches
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=2540768
VIDEO: Afganistan kids hailing Hitler and yellin white power.
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=17124054
VIDEO: more crazy sh!t!!!
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=683290
VIDEO: Another Deployment Video in iraq
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuEvIaplDX0&eurl=http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=98959162
VIDEO: blackhawk in afghanistan Added: July 20, 2007
http://www.youtube.com/user/usxskytrooper07
VIDEO: Weed Fields of Afghanistan Marked as: Mature
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5db_1179037389
VIDEO: Smoking Up in Pakistan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mkoV4JTo-g&feature=related
''''''''''''''''''!''''''''''''''''''
"...Send Dr. Laura To Meet With U.S. Troops" Bill O'Reilly
"I had my staff call the USO at least four, if not more times and
volunteer me and run-arounds and rejection. They said, "You can't just
come once or twice. You have to go on a specific tour of going back 18
million times or something." Anyway, they just blew me off."
Laura Schlessinger, mother of Deryk Schlessinger and Santa Barbara
News-Press A2 columnist.
Why didn't she ask DoD friends?
http://www.defenselink.mil/dodcmsshare/newsstoryPhoto/2007-07/scr_070730-D-8901Q-001.jpg
http://kontar2.blogspot.com/2007/12/kontar-yellow-noise-of-laura-deryk.html
http://www.pbase.com/fletchaka/image/75176545
VIDEO: "Dr. Laura wants to go, you get her butt over there, sir."
O'Reilly
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/27/oreilly-drlaura/
''''''''''''''''''!''''''''''''''''''
http://media.nowpublic.com/images/13/1/131b3b039ee7b3f6cded94c2a1face67.jpg
http://www.wallpaperbase.com/wallpapers/celebs/pamelaanderson/pamela_anderson_39.jpg
"Some soldiers say they prefer to live a rougher life in forward bases
rather than endure KAF's blandness and strict adherence to many
rules."
"Maybe that's why the troops reacted enthusiastically to a small
change in janitorial policy this summer, when NATO contractors took
the maintenance job from a U.S. company. The previous janitors had
regularly painted over the graffiti in the bathroom stalls, leaving
them as blank as everything else in this featureless landscape."
The war on the walls
The featureless landscape of Kandahar Air Field has few creative
outlets. So when janitors stopped painting over bathroom graffiti, the
stalls became a free-for-all forum for the feuds, frustrations,
misgivings and longings of soldiers in Afghanistan
GRAEME SMITH From Thursday's Globe and Mail
November 29, 2007 at 8:52 AM ES
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071129.wlgraffiti29/BNStory/lifeMain/home
On Dec 7, 1:53 am, dl <lol7...@msn.com> wrote:
> Bush loses ground with military familieshttp://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/3691/thumbs/r-MILITARY-FAMILES-l...http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/timespoll/la-na-militpoll7dec07,0,...
> * * * * * * * *
> Laura Schlessinger does't mentioned equipment or many other problems:
> ATTENTION Laura Schlessinger: Helicopter Shortage Hurting Afghan
> Missionhttp://groups.google.com/group/alt.royalty/browse_frm/thread/f6761771...
> Police Secrecy Behind Unmanned Aircraft Testhttp://groups.google.com/group/alt.royalty/browse_frm/thread/44a9144b...
>
> Military families do need help but too much cheerleading promotes war,
> not our troops. Her close relationship with Mike Cash and the DoD is
> dubious...
> $1 trillion missinghttp://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/05/18/MN2517...
> $1B In Military Equipmenthttp://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/12/06/iraq/main3584247.shtml
> They can't audit the DoD. Are these people to trust for charity? Why
> was Laura Schlessinger on Bill O'Reilly trashing the USO? The USO has
> been successful helping the military for decades.http://multi-medium.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/oreilly.jpghttp://freedemocracy.blogspot.com/2007/11/oreilly-bitches-and-whines-...http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/27/oreilly-drlaura/
>
> Deputy Defense Secretary Gordon Englandhttp://bp1.blogger.com/_0qTU784XP0M/R0uNtMb4RjI/AAAAAAAACFY/anMYCPjFj...
> Mike Cashhttp://www.defenselink.mil/dodcmsshare/newsstoryPhoto/2007-07/scr_070...
>