US soldiers allegedly trading pictures of dead Iraqis & Afghanis for porn
fc
WARNING.. the photos don't show up on the blog, they are from a Web
site hosted in Holland. It's said they appear and disappear. The
description is horrible and I'm not looking at the Web site. It is
still a reality we need to inquire about.
the blogger writes:
"Now, before I go any further, I want to explain why I believe this
site is legit. The pictures on the site are of real dead people, that
is obvious. The dead also appear Middle Eastern. The soldiers in the
pictures appear American and real. And the pictures are recent, rather
than from, say, the Vietnam war. Next, the text accompanying the
photos is clearly American and from native speakers, and if you read
the back and forth - there are a lot of visitors to the site who are
not happy about the pictures posted there - the responses from the
"soldiers" sounds like what you'd get from real Americans and real
soldiers. Finally, I looked at one photo on the site, allegedly
showing a dead Iraqi man shot in his car while trying to go through a
check-point. I zoomed in on the man's license plate and compared it to
a picture of an Iraqi license plate I found on the Internet - they're
identical:
Therefore, I'm publishing the photos and helping to spread the word
about this site, because we need answers from our government as to why
more photos of US soldiers with dead people are floating around the
Internet. This is discussed in more detail at the end of my post. And
finally, check out this page from the site and tell me these photos
aren't real."
WHAT DOES ALL THIS MEAN?
Personally, this site sickens me. But I asked myself "why"? War is
horrible, and these pictures simply show us the war we don't see on
our TV screens. Is there some glorification of killing going on? Sure.
And having this on a sex site only makes the glorification that much
creepier. But having said, I can't imagine what it must be like for
our soldiers to look at scenes like this, day in and day out, for
real, up close and personal. That has got to take its toll, and I
wouldn't be surprised if, for some of these guys, posting these kind
of photos is their own version of therapy. Yes, it's gruesome - but
unexpected?
Having said all of that, I still find this incredibly troublesome,
dehumanizing, immoral, and wonder how legal all of this is as well
(per the Geneva Conventions - you remember them, I believe the Bush
administration called them quaint). I worry about what this kind of
activity does to our culture, to our soldiers, and to our society. How
it debases us slowly, gradually, without our even knowing it. I worry
about these soldiers when they come back to the US after having seen
all this gore. What kind of productive members of society will they
be? I worry about all of us who have no clue that war is THIS
gruesome. I worry about our government that think this kind of thing
should be hidden from the public, and that it's a acceptable cost of
going to war.
And maybe it IS an acceptable cost of going to war. But that in and of
itself should tell us something. There ARE costs of going to war. Most
Americans have yet to fully comprehend what it means to have 2,000 US
soldiers dead, and tens of thousands injured, in this war. They have
yet to comprehend the level of violence, the level of civilian
casualties. They have yet to comprehend what this war is doing to our
soldiers, and what it's doing to our own national psyche. Yes, these
are all costs of going to war. But if these costs are hidden from the
public, then it's not something they take into account when
"approving" of the war, and thus their consent is hardly informed.
That's why I'm publishing this story. I can't say for 100% that these
photos really are our service members, that the pics really are of
dead Iraqis and Afghanis, or that they were posted by US soldiers. But
everything about this story rings true (and let's not forget the US
has a history of these photo abuses of the Iraqi dead). Worse yet,
even if this site is a fake, it's already flying around the Internet -
and has been live for over a year. This Web site, real or fake, is
going to be another public relations disaster for the US, and a
bonanza recruiting tool for Al Qaeda.
Our government needs to tell us, fast, whether this is for real or
not, and what they plan on doing about it.
http://www.americablog.com/2005/09/us-soldiers-allegedly-trading-pictures.html
* * * * * *
Afghanistan
2007.09.10
http://www.thebluestate.com/afghanistan/index.html
Rumsfeld touts his work on Afghanistan as "big success"
Picphoto091007rumsfeld Afghanistan's drug trade has doubled over the
last two years, and has risen 34% since the beginning of 2007.
Security is almost non-existent outside of Kabul. Yet, in an
interview with GQ Magazine, Ronald Rumsfeld bragged that Afghanistan
turned out to be a big success, and that plans for postwar Iraq
actually did exist:
Generations from now, Rumsfeld will were as an example of what future
Defense Secretary hopefuls should not have: arrogance, clouded
judgment and a disregard for realism.
* * * * * *
Middle East Jul 12, 2007
DISPATCHES FROM AMERICA
Death from above By Tom Engelhardt
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IG12Ak01.html
The first news stories about the most notorious massacre of the
Vietnam War were picked up the morning after from a US Army publicity
release. These proved fairly typical for the war. On its front page,
the New York Times labeled the operation in and around a village
called My Lai 4 (or "Pinkville", as it was known to US forces in the
area) a significant success.
* * * * * *
News About Afghanistan
This is a blog for news items and reports about Afghanistan.
Saturday, October 06, 2007
http://newsaboutafghanistan.blogspot.com/2007/10/photo-afghan-students-at-kabul.html
* * * * * *
sanitizing
war
Death from above
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IG12Ak01.html
Rumsfeld touts his work on Afghanistan as "big success"
http://www.thebluestate.com/afghanistan/index.html
Pentagon managed to immediately cleanse all evidence of the MySpace
pages
http://wonkette.com/politics/dept'-of-america/dr-lauras-cretin-son-having-fun-torturing-people-in-afghanistan-262247.php
CBC and their strange bedfellows
http://thegallopingbeaver.blogspot.com/2007/10/cbc-and-their-strange-bedfellows.html
Claims of secret CIA jail for terror suspects on British island to be
investigated
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foreignaffairs/story/0,,2194798,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront
Secrecy, Civilian Deaths, and Blackwater USA
http://blog.aclu.org/index.php?/archives/294-Secrecy,-Civilian-Deaths,-and-Blackwater-USA.html
Paper Highlights Photos of 48 Soldiers Killed in Iraq
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003656296
Who benefits from the Afghan Opium Trade?
http://thirdworldtraveler.com/Afghanistan/WhoBenefitsAfghanDrugTrade.html
The Lure of Opium Wealth
http://opioids.com/afghanistan/opium.html
grandfather
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html
'World-Class Exporter' of Terror
http://www.aina.org/news/20071001101023.htm
'White lies'
http://www.workers.org/ww/1999/drugs0819.php
Cannabis
http://www.organisedcrime.info/index.php?mode=12&id=23
archives/salon
The Bush administration, old friends
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/10/02/blackwater_bush/index.html?source=rss&aim=yahoo-salon
Harvard and heroin
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/1999/08/27/heroinson/index.html
The rise of the baby al-Qaidas
Bush's failed strategy in the war on terrorism has spawned more al-
Qaidas -- and they're funded by the booming heroin traffic in
Afghanistan.
http://dir.salon.com/story/opinion/feature/2004/04/07/al_qaidas/index.html
Has the war on terror hurt the war on drugs?
New reports reveal that global demand for illegal substances is higher
than ever despite actions to curb supply.
http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2005/03/14/global_drug_use/index.html
The Former Prez Bush pardons.. a Pakistani heroin dealer
http://archive.salon.com/news/col/cona/2001/02/27/pardons/index.html
Magic carpet ride
http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2002/01/24/opium/index.html
No relief
http://dir.salon.com/story/mwt/feature/2002/04/04/no_relief/index.html
Get your cheap cocaine at the globalization candy store
http://www.salon.com/tech/htww/2007/06/21/cheap_drugs/index.html
Noble words, empty deeds
______THE WAR ON DRUGS WILL FAIL SO LONG
________________AS THE VICTIMS DON'T GET HELP.
http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/15news.html
Prime-time propaganda
http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2000/01/13/drugs/index.html
THE BEAUTIFUL AND THE DAMNED
http://www.salon.com/10/columns/cintra1.html
redc1c4
>
> Monday, September 26, 2005
> WARNING.. the photos don't show up on the blog, they are from a Web
> site hosted in Holland. It's said they appear and disappear. The
> description is horrible and I'm not looking at the Web site. It is
> still a reality we need to inquire about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nowthatsfuckedup.com
nice of you to dredge up something long since OBE......
redc1c4,
does "fc" stand for "fucking clueless"? %-)
--
"Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
considerable watching."
Army Officer's Guide
fasgnadh
> fc wrote:
>> Monday, September 26, 2005
>> WARNING.. the photos don't show up on the blog, they are from a Web
>> site hosted in Holland. It's said they appear and disappear. The
>> description is horrible and I'm not looking at the Web site. It is
>> still a reality we need to inquire about.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nowthatsfuckedup.com
>
> nice of you to dredge up something long since OBE......
"Lest we Forget"
I have posts going back years linking to websites where
US soldiers in Iraq displayed the trophy photos of themselves
posing in front of their Iraq-Krispy victims, shriveled burnt
and blackened bodies with grinning yanks giving the thumbs up,
dismembered limbs hung on a wall...
...just more 'dead gooks' as they said in an earlier war..
There was no way of telling if they were dead insurgents,
Baghdad drivers who got too close to Blackwater Blackshirts
or just citizens in places like Falluga which was shitstormed
with Shake'n'Bake.. phosphorous incendiaries dropped (in breach
of the Geneva convention) on civilians in Falluja as punishment
for the insurgents beating marines in combat. B^p
a couple of years back, after Abu Ghraib, i think it was,
most of the images were purged in the big propaganda clean-up,
and cyber history has been sanitized....
just like Aushwitz is now mostly green fields.
---------
"the US ban on torture could harm the coalition's war against
Islamist terrorists" and "may well limit the capacity of intelligence
organisations".
- Phillip Ruddock, Australia's chief legal officer
and Head of the Inquisition, The age 3/9/2006
"A US intelligence report has found the Iraq war gave birth to a new
generation of Islamic radicals and the terrorist threat had grown"
"A national intelligence estimate in April said Islamic radicalism
had mushroomed worldwide and the Iraqi War was one reason"
- AFP Reuters 25/9/2006
"We swear by the Southern Cross to stand truly by each other
and fight to defend our rights and liberties." - Eureka Oath
---------
The Official [Est. June 2000] aus.culture.true-blue FAQ ;
http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/faq.html
The true-blue Homestead;
http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/
The true-blue Hall Of Fame;
http://www.geocities.com/trueblue_hall_of_fame/index.html
The Tuckerbox;
http://www.geocities.com/true_blue_tucker_box/index.html
-----------
redc1c4
well, at least you don't have any preconceived notions or an agenda....
as shown by your verbiage. where is your matching outrage for the Islamic
beheading videos?
redc1c4,
(being sarcastic on a saturday night. %-)
fc
>
> redc1c4,
> does "fc" stand for "fucking clueless"? %-)
> --
Whatever gets you off. I live near Laura Schlessinger and get alot of
"proud mother of an American soldier..." It's verboten to suggest an
American soldier had a bad day. I've been dredging up because I like
"history", too. Alot of the other links were archival, as well. I
don't look at or read what I don't care to. I believe other adults can
do the same.
What the blogger said is still relevant to some.
Thanks for the Wiki link.
"Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the
citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-
edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind.
And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood
boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need
in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused
with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights
unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have
done. And I am Caesar." (Julius Caesar)
Colin Campbell
wrote:
>
>There was no way of telling if they were dead insurgents,
Maybe for you. Those of us who have been there have looked at many of
those photos and laughed at just what a poor job your buddies did of
photoshopping them.
--
There can be no triumph without loss.
No victory without suffering.
No freedom without sacrifice.
fc
in a small town, but close to incredible wilderness... I feel so
fortunate. A very small part of the world has so much advantage.
>
> "Lest we Forget"
>
That's so important.
> a couple of years back, after Abu Ghraib, i think it was,
> most of the images were purged in the big propaganda clean-up,
> and cyber history has been sanitized....
> just like Aushwitz is now mostly green fields.
I see this happening in so many small ways. Our daily paper was
purchased by a wealthy divorcee and what goes on is hard to believe.
They not only rewrite history, they can't even report current events
or news. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Barbara_News-Press_controversy
That link has already been cleaned up alot.
fasgnadh
traces from 2005, the report so you know it happened:
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/09/28/web.photos/
A bit of the sanitized history, now dead links, with the
pictures removed:
http://www.americablog.com/2005/09/us-soldiers-allegedly-trading-pictures.html
http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2005/08/22/tit-for-tat-cooked-iraqi-for-free-pornography/
Now you can only find the images on archive webs:
http://mindprod.com/image/restricted/cookediraqi.jpg
"The page titled "Nice puss / bad foot" is devoted to the photo of a
nude woman laying down on a table, her foot has been blown off by a land
mine, blood, muscle, skin and bone are dangling in its place, and her
naked crotch is clearly visible in the photo (thus the reference to "puss").
>> just like Aushwitz is now mostly green fields.
America does a great job of managing information.
You have to really work to find the remaining traces of any of those
photos, you can't even get all the thousands of Abu Ghraib photos,
many were NEVER released.
And yet you can find beheading execution videos easily.
The USSA thinks that revealing, rather than doing, those things, is the
crime.
> well, at least you don't have any preconceived notions or an agenda....
Well, at least you haven't tried to deny the truth.
> as shown by your verbiage.
You have a problems with clear concise English that even
you can understand, in a DISCUSSION group?
Or did three paragraphs prove just too taxing?
> where is your matching outrage for the Islamic
> beheading videos?
So now you want to change the subject and berate me for
not reading your mind in advance? pfffft!
I prefer dealing with plain speakers rather than psychics and sophists.
If you want my opinion on murderous thugs, you only have to ask.
We were discussing Regulars, who act on behalf of a legitimate
Government, wearing a uniform we would all like to be proud of
and serving under a flag we would not like moral defectives to sully
by wiping their animal arses on it. And you want to compare
them to criminal killers, and thugs? If you set the bar any lower
it would be an underground power cable.
Last time I looked we met pitiless enemies and murderous
savages by kicking the shit out of them till they were defeated..
not by imitating them.
When my country goes to war it does not want to be associated
with torture, rape, pillage, war crimes or unnecessary savagery.
It's not squeamishness, it is just an intolerance of FUCKING STUPIDITY!
I like to bite the heads off babies as much as the next man,
but taking a photo and putting it on the internet suggests
infants with tiny penises and even smaller brains - who just don't
grasp that Krispy-Iraqi has a family, friends and 27,000,000
countrymen who wonder what the fuck we are still doing there,
apart from shooting them if they get too close while traveling
on OUR roads in their country!
To 'win' in Iraq we would need to have at least SOME of the Iraqi's not
want to kill us, and enough to keep all the rest from doing so.
So what, in your candid opinion, would be the reaction in the USSA
to a group of Pakistani Regulars, not terrorists, standing over
a BBQ'd American in Bombed out Buffalo, grinning and giving
the thumbs up?
You may be happy to excuse it by saying 'But those murderous
moral shitpigs (terrorists) DO IT TOO!" but I left that sort of
infantile shit behind in kindergarten. Standards are NOT
set by the L.C.D.
White hats are meant to eliminate, not imitate, sociopaths.
Comparing a group of irregulars fighting an insurgency,
a resistance operation after their country was invaded
and occupied, representing no one but their gang
and whatever guerrilla war tactics they have read,
with military regulars acting on behalf of a nation state
may be problematical .. especially when you can't find any moral
distinction between them! 8^o
It makes us all look bad.
> (being sarcastic on a saturday night. %-)
---------
fc
> at many of those photos and laughed at just
> what a poor job your buddies did of
> photoshopping them.
I don't think those photos are the point. Or even if certain photos
were photo shopped or not. There is plenty that is not photo shopped.
> There can be no triumph without loss.
> "Lest we Forget"
> No victory without suffering.
> "Lest we Forget"
> No freedom without sacrifice.
> "Lest we Forget"
"Lest we Forget"
On Oct 20, 10:37 pm, Colin Campbell <activated_...@gmail.com (remove
underscore)> wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 12:58:39 +1000, fasgnadh <fasgn...@yahoo.com>
Colin Campbell
wrote:
>You have to really work to find the remaining traces of any of those
>photos, you can't even get all the thousands of Abu Ghraib photos,
>many were NEVER released.
Can you give some examples of photos that were never released?
And how you are so sure that these photos even exist in the first
place?
Or do you believe anything you hear if it fits your prejudices?
fasgnadh
> fasgnadh wrote:
>> redc1c4 wrote:
>>> fc wrote:
>>>> Monday, September 26, 2005
>>>> WARNING.. the photos don't show up on the blog, they are from a Web
>>>> site hosted in Holland. It's said they appear and disappear. The
>>>> description is horrible and I'm not looking at the Web site. It is
>>>> still a reality we need to inquire about.
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nowthatsfuckedup.com
>>>
>>> nice of you to dredge up something long since OBE......
>>
>> "Lest we Forget"
>>
>> I have posts going back years linking to websites where
>> US soldiers in Iraq displayed the trophy photos of themselves
>> posing in front of their Iraq-Krispy victims, shriveled burnt
>> and blackened bodies with grinning yanks giving the thumbs up,
>> dismembered limbs hung on a wall...
>> ...just more 'dead gooks' as they said in an earlier war..
>>
>> or just citizens in places like Falluga which was shitstormed
>> with Shake'n'Bake.. phosphorous incendiaries dropped (in breach
>> of the Geneva convention) on civilians in Falluja as punishment
>> for the insurgents beating marines in combat. B^p
>
> those photos and laughed at just what a poor job your buddies did of
> photoshopping them.
Looked at what photos? I never posted any links.
So you are clearly lying.
I don't have much time for liars.
In 2005 this story hit the media and the net.
Heres one of the few digital documents left intact,
but it clearly refers to what was going on;
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/09/28/web.photos/
The subsequent investigation led to NOT ONE
CHARGE THAT THE PHOTOS WERE DIGITALLY DOCTORED,
instead the web sites containing them were progressively
'cleansed'.
As I told you, and you snipped;
>> a couple of years back, after Abu Ghraib, i think it was,
>> most of the images were purged in the big propaganda clean-up,
>> and cyber history has been sanitized....
>> just like Aushwitz is now mostly green fields.
So you can't have seen the photos I referred to.
You can't have 'looked at many of those photos and
laughed at just what a poor job your buddies did of
photoshopping them.'
You can only mouth off.
But here's the problem for you.
At the same time in 2005 as CNN was reporting on US soldiers swapping
trophy photos on porn sites, I was writing in usenet and following
the links to the origin sites. So I'm a witness to what was.
Anyone who searches the google archive, say for
cookediraqix.jpg author:fasgnadh
will find posts in 2005 with those now-dead links to those sites.
And you know what you WONT FIND? You wont find anyone replying
"Those links are dead" or "Those links are fake".
This is just ONE of the original photos from an archive site;
http://mindprod.com/image/restricted/cookediraqi.jpg
And it is one of the least disturbing.
So, you have a problem.
Either I knew, two years ago, that you would claim this story
was not true, and I planted those posts in a mammoth psychic
conspiracy.. OOGA BOOGA...
or, by Occam's edge, it happened, and you are in denial.
Now I don't really care. Because the PUBLICATION of those horrors
didn't stop them from happening, and so convincing you is pointless,
you wouldn't do anything to stop it anyway.
Abu Ghraib, the Fallugia incendiary attacks, ("Shake'n'Bake
as the military involved called it), clear breaches of the Geneva
Convention, are well documented, and equally SUPPRESSED so that
Americans can't be upset by it.
Otherwise you would be able to point us to the Congressional
Archive of Abu Ghraib photos and videos.
Go on, find a single abu ghraib video on the net.
Find the thousands of unreleased photos that Congress
said it had, but did not release for publication because it
would 'hamper the War Effort'. B^p
All suppressed by Congress.
You can't access the truth.
It's not the Land of the Free they told you it was.
fasgnadh
> On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:16:08 +1000, fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>> You have to really work to find the remaining traces of any of those
>> photos, you can't even get all the thousands of Abu Ghraib photos,
>> many were NEVER released.
>
> Can you give some examples of photos that were never released?
As soon as your Congress or courts releases them for publication
Got a link to the Abu Ghraib videos Rumsfeld referred to?
Four at least should be available.
> And how you are so sure that these photos even exist in the first
> place?
You are right to doubt the word of Donald Rumsfeld, he is clearly
a lying war criminal.. still this is a startling admission;
"This is how CNN reported it on May 8, 2004, in a
typical account that day:
"U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld revealed Friday
that videos and 'a lot more pictures' exist of the abuse
of Iraqis held at Abu Ghraib prison.
"'If these are released to the public, obviously it's
going to make matters worse,' Rumsfeld told the Senate
Armed Services Committee. 'I mean, I looked at
them last night, and they're hard to believe.'
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001218842
Senate Arms Services Committee hearings would be archived..
as you don't trust me, or Rumsfeld, look it up and let us know
what you find.
As I said, no one stopped it happening at the time, proving it to you
years later will not cause you to do anything now..
I think we just have to wait till the war gets worse and you have to
lift refugees off the roof of the Baghdad embassy with choppers.
Of course if that happens Turkey will be in the Norhern oilfields and
you will have trouble making plastics, cosmetics and pharmaceuticals,
let alone fuelling tanks and planes or BBQ'ing Iraqis.
Good luck.
I live here, off the grid, but I can probably sell you a horse when the
crunch comes''
http://www.geocities.com/fasgnadh/images/mansfieldrichriverland.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/fasgnadh/images/mansfieldrainbowridge
http://www.geocities.com/fasgnadh/images/mansfieldthehouseinthehill
http://www.geocities.com/fasgnadh/images/mansfieldkidscubby
http://www.geocities.com/fasgnadh/images/mansfieldhousehammock
http://www.geocities.com/fasgnadh/images/mansfieldfromtheridge.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/fasgnadh/images/mansfieldorganicfarmingontheriverflat
http://www.geocities.com/fasgnadh/images/mansfieldthesaddle
http://www.geocities.com/fasgnadh/images/mansfieldsummer87
> Or do you believe anything you hear if it fits your prejudices?
Just post a link to the Abu ghraib *videos* that shocked a heartless
sociopath like Runsfeld and you might have a point, Otherwise you
aren't in Kansas anymore, Dorothy.
> --
> There can be no triumph without loss.
> No victory without suffering.
> No freedom without sacrifice.
--
Greg Carr
"Colin Campbell" <activa...@gmail.com (remove underscore)> wrote in
message news:q0ulh3pdf0nmdqsso...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:16:08 +1000, fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>You have to really work to find the remaining traces of any of those
>>photos, you can't even get all the thousands of Abu Ghraib photos,
>>many were NEVER released.
>
> Can you give some examples of photos that were never released?
Thousand of photos were found on Cds and discussed at Congressional hearings
but never released to the public.
>
> And how you are so sure that these photos even exist in the first
> place?
Reported on in the media and confirmed by Democratic and Republican elected
officials.
Greg Carr
Harry to fight and they are cutting their support in half. Osama hasn't been
found.
--
Read and obey the Bible. Yu'shua died on the cross for our sins, He rose
again and walked the earth. We are awaiting the Third Coming aka The Day Of
Judgment.
Sheep are extremely fluffy.
"Colin Campbell" <activa...@gmail.com (remove underscore)> wrote in
message news:q7plh390ilqivak0k...@4ax.com...
redc1c4
(mercy snipage occurs)
> Abu Ghraib, the Fallugia incendiary attacks, ("Shake'n'Bake
> as the military involved called it), clear breaches of the Geneva
> Convention, are well documented, and equally SUPPRESSED so that
> Americans can't be upset by it.
Abu Ghraib was the isolated act of a few idiots, was discovered & prosecuted by
the military long before the media ever heard of it, and blown out of
proportion by agenda driven fools like you.
the use of WP against military targets is an accepted military tactic, well
within the laws of land warfare.
what clear breaches of the Geneva Convention, unless, of course you are
referring to the murder of US military members who are taken captive by the
enemy?
redc1c4,
(but you'd *never* do that..... %-)
redc1c4
>
> "Colin Campbell" <activa...@gmail.com (remove underscore)> wrote in
> message news:q0ulh3pdf0nmdqsso...@4ax.com...
> > On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:16:08 +1000, fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>You have to really work to find the remaining traces of any of those
> >>photos, you can't even get all the thousands of Abu Ghraib photos,
> >>many were NEVER released.
> >
> > Can you give some examples of photos that were never released?
>
> Thousand of photos were found on Cds and discussed at Congressional hearings
> but never released to the public.
then request them under the FOIA, since you think it's so important.
redc1c4,
(or would you rather whine about conspiracies on Usenet? %-)
Colin Campbell
wrote:
>70% of the public opposes the war in the US. Britain refuses to send Prince
>Harry to fight and they are cutting their support in half. Osama hasn't been
>found.
So you are saying that 'popular' = right?
Colin Campbell
wrote:
>
>
>
>"Colin Campbell" <activa...@gmail.com (remove underscore)> wrote in
>message news:q0ulh3pdf0nmdqsso...@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:16:08 +1000, fasgnadh <fasg...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>You have to really work to find the remaining traces of any of those
>>>photos, you can't even get all the thousands of Abu Ghraib photos,
>>>many were NEVER released.
>>
>> Can you give some examples of photos that were never released?
>
>Thousand of photos were found on Cds and discussed at Congressional hearings
>but never released to the public.
And who owned the CDs?
Remember that if those CDs were private property the government cannot
release them without the owner's permission.
BTW - how many of those 'thousands of photos' actually pertain to the
matter being investigated?
>>
>> And how you are so sure that these photos even exist in the first
>> place?
>
>Reported on in the media and confirmed by Democratic and Republican elected
>officials.
reference?
Colin Campbell
<red...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> wrote:
>fasgnadh wrote:
>
>(mercy snipage occurs)
>
>> Abu Ghraib, the Fallugia incendiary attacks, ("Shake'n'Bake
>> as the military involved called it), clear breaches of the Geneva
>> Convention, are well documented, and equally SUPPRESSED so that
>> Americans can't be upset by it.
>
>Abu Ghraib was the isolated act of a few idiots, was discovered & prosecuted by
>the military long before the media ever heard of it, and blown out of
>proportion by agenda driven fools like you.
>
>the use of WP against military targets is an accepted military tactic, well
>within the laws of land warfare.
>
>what clear breaches of the Geneva Convention, unless, of course you are
>referring to the murder of US military members who are taken captive by the
>enemy?
>
>redc1c4,
>(but you'd *never* do that..... %-)
And I bet that fasgnadh cannot even explain when and how WP was used
and how those circumstances violated the GC.
People like him are what gives us the impression that anti-war
sentiment is based on ignorance.
Colin Campbell
wrote:
>redc1c4 <red...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> said:
>
>
>>Abu Ghraib was the isolated act of a few idiots, was discovered & prosecuted by
>>the military long before the media ever heard of it, and blown out of
>>proportion by agenda driven fools like you.
>
>There had been a very small number of prosecutions by the military,
>and a very large amount of 'under the carpet' sweeping.
Can you provide examples of incidents that can be demonstrated to have
actually occurred that were swept under the carpet?
>
>It wasn't until the atrocities were made public that more direct
>action was taken. Although that was very much a whitewash, with a
>few junior staff prosecuted.
Dumb.
The public found out about Abu Ghrib when pictures were leaked from
the CID investigation.
There were three independent military investigations (CID, the IG and
the 15-6) occurring before the news media found out about the
incidents.
Colin Campbell
wrote:
>It wasn't until the atrocities were made public that more direct
>action was taken. Although that was very much a whitewash, with a
>few junior staff prosecuted.
BTW - can you provide the name some senior people who should have been
prosecuted - and for what specific offense? (Note: I expect you to be
able to reference a law that is on the books.)
Colin Campbell
wrote:
>Colin Campbell <activa...@gmail.com (remove underscore)> said:
>
>>On Sun, 21 Oct 2007 09:15:08 GMT, "Greg Carr" <greg...@yahoo.ca>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>70% of the public opposes the war in the US. Britain refuses to send Prince
>>>Harry to fight and they are cutting their support in half. Osama hasn't been
>>>found.
>>
>>So you are saying that 'popular' = right?
>
>Perhaps he's suggesting that the actions of governments should be
>determined by the will of the people.
The will of the people is expressed in every election.
And if you paid close attention to those polls - 70% of the people do
not necessarily want the troops pulled out too soon.
Besides - most of the people who want our troops pulled out have as
poor an understanding of Iraq as you do.
redc1c4
>
> Colin Campbell <activa...@gmail.com (remove underscore)> said:
>
> >Besides - most of the people who want our troops pulled out have as
> >poor an understanding of Iraq as you do.
>
>
> Be specific.
the ignorance you've displayed here pontificating about it?
redc1c4,
pointing out the obvious, to the oblivious.... %-)
SaPeIsMa
news:7m7th39n45018kvn1...@4ax.com...
> redc1c4 <red...@drunkenbastards.org.ies> said:
>
>
>>Abu Ghraib was the isolated act of a few idiots, was discovered &
>>prosecuted by
>>the military long before the media ever heard of it, and blown out of
>>proportion by agenda driven fools like you.
>
> and a very large amount of 'under the carpet' sweeping.
>
And naturally, YOU CAN DOCUMENT these alleged "'under the carpet' sweeping"
?
> It wasn't until the atrocities were made public that more direct
> action was taken. Although that was very much a whitewash, with a
> few junior staff prosecuted.
>
What "atrocities" ?
At best they were "humiliations"
If you want to compare them to REAL "atrocities", read up on what happened
in Abu Ghraib when Saddam was using it
And considering that it was the "junior staff" who did the humiliations, it
was appropriate that they should be prosecuted for their acts
By the way, we not that you ignore that punishement went all the way up to a
general
But hey, that clearly is a minor detail for someone who can NOT
differentiate between REAL atrocities and pseudo-atrocities
Colin Campbell
wrote:
>Colin Campbell <activa...@gmail.com (remove underscore)> said:
>
>>Besides - most of the people who want our troops pulled out have as
>>poor an understanding of Iraq as you do.
>
>On what do you base your understanding of my understanding of Iraq?
I served in a brigade HQ during OIF II. (Meaning I had visibility of
everything that was going on in that country in near real time.
I understand who each of the major factions inside Iraq are as well as
their motivations and goals.
I know the geography of Iraq and know how and why each area is
significant.
I also saw the difference between what the news media tells you had
what it is really like over there (we had CNN running 24x7).
Now - what is your basis for evaluating what it is like in Iraq?
Be specific.
La N
"Colin Campbell" <activa...@gmail.com (remove underscore)> wrote in
message news:eqsvh3lmrpsjgegka...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 24 Oct 2007 02:25:42 GMT, Craig Welch <cr...@pacific.net.sg>
> wrote:
>
>>Colin Campbell <activa...@gmail.com (remove underscore)> said:
>>
>>>Besides - most of the people who want our troops pulled out have as
>>>poor an understanding of Iraq as you do.
>>
>>On what do you base your understanding of my understanding of Iraq?
>
> I served in a brigade HQ during OIF II. (Meaning I had visibility of
> everything that was going on in that country in near real time.
>
>
Absolutely NOBODY has had "visibility of everything that was going on in
that country in near real time." EVER.
That's just plain k00kery.
- nilita
La N
"La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:PzSTi.27562$GO5.8159@edtnps90...
btw, worse than that, it reminds me of what the late Chilean dictator
Augusto Pinochet used to say: "not even a leaf stirs in this country
without my knowledge."
- nilita
SaPeIsMa
And you know this because ?
La N
"SaPeIsMa" <SaPe...@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:13hvvck...@corp.supernews.com...
Because I know a little about about physics, geography, and reality vs.
fantasy. I also know about the size of Iraq. Nobody but NOBODY can know
everything that is going on in real time in every part of Iraq any more than
anybody can do the same of the State of California.
Why would *you* think that's even possible?
Maybe Colin can fine tune his response. Maybe he means that when he was
there he was able to look at monitors in his base from signals beamed in
from various video cams around strategic sites in Iraq.
- nilita
gc
WARNING.. the photos don't show up on the blog, they are from a Web
site hosted in Holland. It's said they appear and disappear. The
description is horrible and I'm not looking at the Web site. It is
still a reality we need to inquire about.
the blogger writes:
"Now, before I go any further, I want to explain why I believe this
site is legit. The pictures on the site are of real dead people, that
is obvious. The dead also appear Middle Eastern. The soldiers in the
pictures appear American and real. And the pictures are recent, rather
than from, say, the Vietnam war. Next, the text accompanying the
photos is clearly American and from native speakers, and if you read
the back and forth - there are a lot of visitors to the site who are
not happy about the pictures posted there - the responses from the
"soldiers" sounds like what you'd get from real Americans and real
soldiers. Finally, I looked at one photo on the site, allegedly
showing a dead Iraqi man shot in his car while trying to go through a
check-point. I zoomed in on the man's license plate and compared it to
a picture of an Iraqi license plate I found on the Internet - they're
identical:
Therefore, I'm publishing the photos and helping to spread the word
about this site, because we need answers from our government as to why
more photos of US soldiers with dead people are floating around the
Internet. This is discussed in more detail at the end of my post. And
finally, check out this page from the site and tell me these photos
aren't real."
WHAT DOES ALL THIS MEAN?
Personally, this site sickens me. But I asked myself "why"? War is
horrible, and these pictures simply show us the war we don't see on
our TV screens. Is there some glorification of killing going on? Sure.
And having this on a sex site only makes the glorification that much
creepier. But having said, I can't imagine what it must be like for
our soldiers to look at scenes like this, day in and day out, for
real, up close and personal. That has got to take its toll, and I
wouldn't be surprised if, for some of these guys, posting these kind
of photos is their own version of therapy. Yes, it's gruesome - but
unexpected?
Having said all of that, I still find this incredibly troublesome,
dehumanizing, immoral, and wonder how legal all of this is as well
(per the Geneva Conventions - you remember them, I believe the Bush
administration called them quaint). I worry about what this kind of
activity does to our culture, to our soldiers, and to our society. How
it debases us slowly, gradually, without our even knowing it. I worry
about these soldiers when they come back to the US after having seen
all this gore. What kind of productive members of society will they
be? I worry about all of us who have no clue that war is THIS
gruesome. I worry about our government that think this kind of thing
should be hidden from the public, and that it's a acceptable cost of
going to war.
And maybe it IS an acceptable cost of going to war. But that in and of
itself should tell us something. There ARE costs of going to war. Most
Americans have yet to fully comprehend what it means to have 2,000 US
soldiers dead, and tens of thousands injured, in this war. They have
yet to comprehend the level of violence, the level of civilian
casualties. They have yet to comprehend what this war is doing to our
soldiers, and what it's doing to our own national psyche. Yes, these
are all costs of going to war. But if these costs are hidden from the
public, then it's not something they take into account when
"approving" of the war, and thus their consent is hardly informed.
That's why I'm publishing this story. I can't say for 100% that these
photos really are our service members, that the pics really are of
dead Iraqis and Afghanis, or that they were posted by US soldiers. But
everything about this story rings true (and let's not forget the US
has a history of these photo abuses of the Iraqi dead). Worse yet,
even if this site is a fake, it's already flying around the Internet -
and has been live for over a year. This Web site, real or fake, is
going to be another public relations disaster for the US, and a
bonanza recruiting tool for Al Qaeda.
Our government needs to tell us, fast, whether this is for real or
not, and what they plan on doing about it.
SaPeIsMa
I don't believe that his comment was a claim that he knew what was happening
with EVERY living creature, every micro-second in every location of Iraq
Your rebutal is based on that foolish premise
Try to use better judgement the next time
Chud99
> I served in a brigade HQ during OIF II. (Meaning I had visibility of
> everything that was going on in that country in near real time.
>
>
thing.
Did you dig any latrines in the north? I did.
What latrine brigade were you in?
La N
"SaPeIsMa" <SaPe...@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
Despite that. There is no way that anybody who spent only one year in
Iraq a few years ago can know everything about Iraq which is a dynamic
situation.
I am not easily impressed, and neither are most people in the audience.
- nilita
SaPeIsMa
LOL
Since when do you speak for anyone else but yourself, you pumped-up frog ?
gc
It's LOST
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.radio.talk.dr-laura/browse_frm/thread/3bf708cee7a94a66/5fb68088cb79bad8#5fb68088cb79bad8
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.radio.talk.dr-laura/browse_frm/thread/a3ea202460970505?scoring=d&
Glenn Beck
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.radio.talk.dr-laura/browse_frm/thread/56490ace8c8faba3?scoring=d&
On Oct 24, 8:29 pm, gc <lol7...@msn.com> wrote:
> Monday, September 26, 2005
> WARNING.. the photos don't show up on the blog, they are from a Web
> site hosted in Holland. It's said they appear and disappear. The
> description is horrible and I'm not looking at the Web site. It is
> still a reality we need to inquire about.http://groups.google.com/group/can.politics/browse_frm/thread/e2eeda4...
La N
"SaPeIsMa" <SaPe...@Hotmail.com> wrote in message
come across as pretty lame in your rationales for this war, not to mention
your personal insults. So be it.
I will tell you this. You and Colin do not speak for all military people.
This I have come to learn. And btw, did you help him find and destroy WMD's
in Iraq as he claims he did.
Geebus, I should have listened to the Colonel some time ago and put you both
in the *plonker*. Now's as good a time as any.
- nilita
Colin Campbell
wrote:
Because she has not figured out that the military has advanced
somewhat since WWII?